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20261104 003000 UTC
322 transcript segments
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[00:00:00] this may indeed be due to the type of time, imagine
[00:00:03] that you took soup with a meatball at dinner,
[00:00:07] what do you eat first, the meatball, the soup?
[00:00:10] some people eat the
[00:00:13] meatball first, it's tasty, and then the soup,
[00:00:16] other people eat the soup first, and then eat
[00:00:19] the meatball, well, some eat it all together, these are people
[00:00:23] focused on the past on the past, they eat the
[00:00:26] meatball first, that is, they try to eat the tasty part
[00:00:30] first, the tasty part first, people focused on the future,
[00:00:34] they leave the tasty part, the meatball, for later, they eat the soup first, well, those
[00:00:37] in the present are those who eat a piece of both, in short,
[00:00:41] they tend to postpone the unpleasant
[00:00:45] for later, those who eat the meatball first,
[00:00:48] tell me, in our time, how much more
[00:00:52] common is procrastination than before, when the day was more structured,
[00:00:56] work was more rigid, before our time...
[00:01:00] was managed by someone else,
[00:01:03] superiors, family, in the end, if you take
[00:01:06] childhood, yes, mom wakes you up in the morning, go to
[00:01:10] school, bells ring at school, then
[00:01:13] you come home, let's say, the same mom meets you, sit down, study,
[00:01:17] well, or take a serf, a peasant,
[00:01:21] a factory worker, that is, the organization of your time was managed by
[00:01:24] someone external, now generally the welfare of society
[00:01:28] is quite good. people found themselves
[00:01:31] free, partly from external coercion, but
[00:01:35] still found themselves, and now we can manage
[00:01:38] our own time ourselves, but not everyone
[00:01:41] knows how, and how to defeat procrastination, how to
[00:01:45] manage time, well, as I already said, it depends on the type of
[00:01:48] person, in fact, it's hard to change your type,
[00:01:52] but, but first, it's desirable to know it, to know your
[00:01:55] peculiarity, and secondly, well, probably with training, like everything
[00:01:59] else. by creating a clear daily routine, in general there are
[00:02:02] many different ways to fight procrastination, for example, I read
[00:02:06] - the deepest one - is of course, to generally understand why you don't
[00:02:10] want to do it, why something became a tasty
[00:02:13] meatball, and something an untasty soup, how do you even live if you
[00:02:16] have so much untasty soup, I just love soup and as a
[00:02:20] metaphor, maybe a person's life is not completely well arranged, that
[00:02:24] he chose such a metaphorical soup, where a small tasty
[00:02:27] meatball floats, a large one...
[00:03:08] in fact, well, it's precisely this regulation, there's another interesting point, yes,
[00:03:12] for example, you have two things you don't want to do,
[00:03:15] clean the apartment and write your thesis, well,
[00:03:19] you don't want to write your thesis more, well, you can
[00:03:22] fill the time with cleaning the apartment, you couldn't make yourself clean
[00:03:26] the apartment either, but this way you can at least make yourself do something less unpleasant.
[00:03:30] you will actually get things done, and in general, is it bad or good to do
[00:03:33] nothing? why do we think it's bad? because our
[00:03:37] body is programmed to what we must do,
[00:03:41] a person is predisposed to
[00:03:44] activity, he must do something, well,
[00:03:47] work, exercise, run, anything,
[00:03:50] otherwise he will feel
[00:03:53] bad, guilty, or something else, yes,
[00:03:56] we, and how to overcome this feeling of guilt, to start? do something, well,
[00:04:00] or accept that you can do nothing,
[00:04:03] it's very hard to accept, but
[00:04:06] you can certainly accept it, but you understand what an organism
[00:04:10] is and that an organism needs
[00:04:13] physical exertion, beta-endorphins
[00:04:16] are released, but it also needs rest,
[00:04:20] rest, of course, I have an appeal, an appeal to all our
[00:04:23] listeners, to try at least 15 minutes a day
[00:04:26] to do nothing,
[00:04:29] roughly speaking,
[00:05:00] we are currently conducting an experiment, we
[00:05:02] are looking at how daytime
[00:05:06] sleep affects the state of health, various
[00:05:09] components of health, physiological,
[00:05:23] I have several volunteers who agreed to sleep during the day, we just started, talked about 15 minutes, well, 15-30 minutes, it's not that big a deal, it's not just sitting, doing nothing, but
[00:05:27] lying down, relaxing, closing
[00:05:29] your eyes, clearing all thoughts, that is, you just don't
[00:05:33] think them, at least don't think verbally, that is, don't
[00:05:36] talk to yourself, you can, let images
[00:05:39] come, well, first of all, the first
[00:05:43] question, can you fall asleep from that, the second
[00:05:46] question, how does it affect a person, we have the first results
[00:05:49] already summarized, so, first, it's very difficult
[00:05:53] to force yourself, even those who can lie down for 15
[00:05:56] minutes, relax, close their eyes, just lie down, if you can't
[00:06:00] fall asleep, your task is to lie down for 15 minutes, by the way, it's interesting from the point of view
[00:06:03] of biological control, as a rule, people wake up
[00:06:07] themselves after 15 minutes, or open their eyes, that is, this
[00:06:11] 15-minute rhythm. well, yes, the
[00:06:13] person, through it, almost always wakes up, you can
[00:06:17] then fall asleep again if you want, well, and
[00:06:20] secondly, yes, I already said, the first fact is that it's very difficult
[00:06:24] to force yourself, for some reason it seems to a person that these 15
[00:06:27] minutes, they are, well, so necessary, when he lies down, he
[00:06:30] wants to think about something, and his thoughts seem to him, his own, so
[00:06:34] important, that well, how can he not think about this, and
[00:06:37] then yes, we want to see if it affects
[00:06:41] health, I already said, remained...
[00:08:12] it's eternity, in youth it usually
[00:08:15] flows, but in old age it accelerates,
[00:08:19] an elderly person feels like they just opened their eyes,
[00:08:22] it's evening, and days fly by and you don't
[00:08:24] notice them, besides having to fill
[00:08:28] your days, well, our advice, we also need to understand that the
[00:08:32] perception of time changes, there are two answers to
[00:08:35] this question, why, well, with age time accelerates,
[00:08:39] one is psychological, the other, I would say.
[00:09:12] in fact, this is a good answer from the point of view
[00:09:15] of time management, yes, but we just need to compare
[00:09:19] time not with the duration of life, but there is
[00:09:22] another study, conducted in Japan 2 years ago, I think,
[00:09:26] we have neurons in the parietal cortex,
[00:09:30] which are responsible for the perception of time,
[00:09:33] with age these neurons
[00:09:37] get tired, are inhibited, stop
[00:09:40] exciting and... and accordingly,
[00:09:44] fewer neurons in a person begin to participate in
[00:09:47] the perception of a time interval, as a result, time
[00:09:50] accelerates for him, fewer neurons that perceive time,
[00:09:54] then in old age on the one hand there is a
[00:09:57] phenomenon that time rushes, on the other
[00:10:00] hand it becomes difficult to get something done in a short
[00:10:04] period, if before, for example, you got ready for work in 15
[00:10:07] minutes, then now it doesn't work in 15
[00:10:10] not because you... get tired faster, not because the body
[00:10:14] is sick or something else, it just doesn't work, many are
[00:10:18] surprised by this, well, why before I got ready in 15 minutes,
[00:10:21] now I just can't in 15, that's it.
[00:10:26] remained, well, this is considered to be related to the fact that
[00:10:30] the perception of time has changed, now these 15 minutes are for you
[00:10:33] like 10, like five, well
[00:10:36] subjectively, yes, and you don't make
[00:10:39] it in time, although in principle you could have, what
[00:10:43] to do with this, if we take
[00:10:46] the biopsychological concept, because maybe it's
[00:10:49] sadder, yes, then it turns out that you need to teach
[00:10:53] neurons not to get tired. and that's a question
[00:10:57] of how not to age or how to rejuvenate, there's no answer
[00:11:01] to that yet, well, another option, in old age
[00:11:04] it is believed that such an indicator as
[00:11:07] life awareness awareness, mindfulness, well, such
[00:11:11] an indicator, you need to use
[00:11:13] this awareness for time management, that is,
[00:11:17] it turns out to be self-control, that is, you control yourself during
[00:11:21] these 15 minutes to make it in time, and many?
[00:11:25] where there is some kind of aging plan,
[00:11:27] when I turn 60, 70, God willing
[00:11:31] 80, what will I do, how will I fill my
[00:11:34] life? I think that people don't have such
[00:11:38] a plan, and even pensioners
[00:11:40] who have retired don't have such a plan, there were such
[00:11:44] studies, but if we take a younger
[00:11:48] age, you know, there were also old studies, up to what age
[00:11:51] people imagine their life, that is, how they...
[00:11:55] see it, how much it is
[00:11:57] imagined for them, and at about 18 years old
[00:12:01] they imagined, well, like up to
[00:12:03] 25,
[00:12:06] interestingly, at 22 also up to 25, so this is such a
[00:12:09] turning point, well, apparently people enroll, study
[00:12:13] there, at 25
[00:12:15] they imagined up to thirty, I talked to some people,
[00:12:19] asked, yes, who did you imagine, many of them roughly
[00:12:22] assumed that, this...
[00:12:40] well, people are already, but this is such a turning point, yes, but it turns out that people imagine up to retirement, and there, well, nothing
[00:12:44] was imagined there, there was no program, no plan
[00:12:47] for fulfillment, so, therefore I appeal to our
[00:12:50] viewers and listeners, imagine that you are 80, what will you do? year,
[00:15:25] and now 23-24
[00:15:27] is the completion of adolescence, so
[00:15:31] that well,
[00:15:34] the maturation is delayed and preserved.
[00:15:37] such a teenage period, and what is a teenager, why
[00:15:41] adolescent, yes, not youth, how does a teenager differ from a young man, well, in
[00:15:45] principle, not by independence, he
[00:15:49] needs care, help, a teenager, this is
[00:15:53] generally some infantilization, self-discovery, and
[00:15:56] accordingly, some need for support, while he is
[00:16:00] searching for himself, and a young man is already, firstly,
[00:16:03] having left the parental family, distancing himself, living
[00:16:07] independently, he is still young, but, but he
[00:16:10] is already independent, so that the fact that adolescence
[00:16:14] has expanded, this has expanded the time of adolescence,
[00:16:18] self-discovery, well, and dependence and
[00:16:21] the need for support, such a
[00:16:24] social feature, firstly, people study until this age,
[00:16:27] they are not independent, yes, secondly, such a decision, as it were,
[00:16:31] of the same World Health Organization, and you know, I think this
[00:16:34] is correct, it corresponds to...
[00:17:07] editor of a magazine with the same name "Schrödinger's
[00:17:10] Cat". And we talk about very important
[00:17:14] things from the point of view of science. Today
[00:17:17] we are talking about time. We have Tatiana
[00:17:21] Berezina, psychologist, professor of the Department of Extreme
[00:17:24] Psychology of the Moscow State Psychological and Pedagogical
[00:17:28] University as our guest. From the point of view of extreme psychology,
[00:17:32] what is time? They say that when a person is in some terrible situation,
[00:17:35] falling or...
[00:18:37] it seemed to him that a huge amount of time had passed, he saw
[00:18:41] cracks on the ceiling, anything, though he couldn't move,
[00:18:44] it turns out that for some people still,
[00:18:48] yes, subjectively, time stretches, accelerates, do whatever you want, but more
[00:18:51] is done, the task is to be able to cram into this more
[00:18:55] not only perception, but also
[00:18:58] action, the one that can save you, some
[00:19:02] say that they succeeded in this,
[00:19:05] well, it reminds a little of a scene from the Matrix, when... a bullet flies and the heroes
[00:19:08] dodge it, remember in the movie, but look, doesn't it seem
[00:19:12] to you that many people choose some extreme,
[00:19:15] risky options of behavior, no matter,
[00:19:19] they go to hot spots, jump off a cliff or something
[00:19:22] else, to increase their time, they
[00:19:25] increase, after such an experience, firstly, all this
[00:19:29] their, and this day for them
[00:19:33] stretched out and was remembered, and the vacation, if they did it on vacation,
[00:19:38] well, and the extreme situation itself, it
[00:19:42] can be that they flew for 5 minutes, for them it's
[00:19:45] an hour, well, when it's not 5 minutes, but 5 months,
[00:19:49] probably a whole big life turns out, when you are always
[00:19:53] risking, when something threatens you, but
[00:19:56] you also age, you know, if you take people
[00:19:59] in extreme professions, those who are, well,
[00:20:02] a hobby, I can't say, but a study
[00:20:05] of representatives of professions of special risk. experienced
[00:21:08] all the same loads, training, well, for the cosmonaut detachment
[00:21:12] their own risk, but they never accomplished
[00:21:15] their feat, that is, it's not about physiology, but rather about meanings, something, it seems,
[00:21:19] when people with...
[00:22:20] to live, and if there's no reason to live, then he
[00:22:22] dies. Perhaps this is a very complex study,
[00:22:26] to study precisely this, I don't
[00:22:29] know researchers who could
[00:22:32] subject precisely this to experimental verification, so that
[00:22:35] the presence of a global meaning for a person, why
[00:22:39] live, prolongs his life, about the cosmonaut, we did good research,
[00:22:42] yes, but what happened there, and here
[00:22:46] there is Viktor Frankl's famous study, which he did in concentration camps.
[00:22:50] You understand that this is not scientific research,
[00:22:53] subjective observation of a person.
[00:22:56] Well, naturally, we cannot conduct an experiment in a concentration camp. I
[00:22:59] remind those who do not know this wonderful psychologist, he
[00:23:03] ended up in a fascist concentration camp and
[00:23:06] constantly observed himself and those around him,
[00:23:10] and in fact, having been liberated,
[00:23:12] having survived, he created, well, a special direction of psychology related
[00:23:16] to meanings, and he owns a wonderful
[00:23:20] quote, taken from his experience in a concentration camp: whoever knows
[00:23:23] why, will endure any how, and those who
[00:23:26] understood why they lived, even in the hellish conditions of a concentration camp,
[00:23:30] survived more often than those who lost this
[00:23:33] meaning, probably, that's how it was, if we
[00:23:37] objectively studied it, most likely we would confirm it, God forbid,
[00:23:40] of course, well, I understand, but if we don't live in a concentration camp, imagine
[00:23:44] one person has something to live for, he has some
[00:23:47] global goal, and another person just.
[00:23:59] that is, he doesn't have a global meaning, but he's not in a concentration camp, he just lives, who will live longer, that is, will the presence of such a meaning, the need to live
[00:24:03] another 10 years, prolong a person's life compared
[00:24:06] to one who doesn't have such a need, that's
[00:24:10] the question, for this
[00:24:13] question, I don't know the answer, yes, it would be very
[00:24:16] interesting to study this, but I can't even imagine it yet.
[00:25:20] it turned out that academicians, full members of the Academy
[00:25:23] of Sciences live longer than corresponding members,
[00:25:26] excellent, I've never heard of that, well, yes, and than, for example,
[00:25:30] ordinary professors, so it turns out that, well,
[00:25:33] so to speak,
[00:25:35] achievements, well, the ability to work
[00:25:39] for a long time, again, a higher level of career,
[00:25:42] gives the opportunity to live
[00:25:45] longer, let's dream a little, after all. we all want
[00:25:48] to live longer, not to
[00:25:52] get old longer, to be young longer,
[00:25:55] cheerful, as I understand, science is now
[00:25:58] looking for ways to prolong human youth, to make him...
[00:26:33] well, calculate the percentage that depends on the environment, and that
[00:26:37] on heredity, in general, in Russia, about 36% of life expectancy
[00:26:40] depends on heredity,
[00:26:43] the rest on the environment, in America there was a similar
[00:26:47] study, they got 25% from heredity, the rest
[00:26:50] from the environment, on the one hand it
[00:26:53] seems that it's
[00:26:56] great, but on the other hand, if you analyze it, it doesn't
[00:26:59] mean that, for example, you lived...
[00:27:02] up to 50 years, yes, that's only 36%, I can
[00:27:05] live up to 150, this
[00:27:08] rather means that there is some, presumably
[00:27:12] limit of life, which is programmed
[00:27:16] biologically and
[00:27:19] it is now believed that this limit is quite large, about
[00:27:23] 100, 120 years, well, approximately so researchers
[00:27:27] assert, and we can organize our lives
[00:27:30] so as to live these, well, let it be... 100 years, uh,
[00:27:34] in sound mind, solid memory, with good
[00:27:37] health, here too, we will now talk about psychology,
[00:27:41] because it is clear that medicine is working on this, biology, well, everyone is working,
[00:27:45] they are looking for their own ways, and we, as it were, say,
[00:27:48] what can we, psychologists, offer for the
[00:27:51] possibility of somehow extending your life,
[00:27:53] increasing its productive period
[00:27:57] of life, let's call it that, well, my colleague from St. Petersburg
[00:28:01] University, they developed... a strategy, well, for extending
[00:28:04] the productive period of life, prosperous, there are 22
[00:28:07] factors, some of them are good sleep, another is control
[00:28:10] of food, healthy lifestyle and so on. We
[00:28:14] assumed that a person's life consists of three large
[00:28:17] spheres: work, family, free time,
[00:28:20] we, yes, work, we already said, successful work
[00:28:24] prolongs life, a good prosperous family, loving,
[00:28:28] in principle, also prolongs life, but this does not depend on us, we
[00:28:31] stopped at the fact that... what we psychologists can advise is
[00:28:34] managing free time, because
[00:28:38] I can tell you, you need a successful job, everyone wants that without me, I can say,
[00:28:42] I recommend you a prosperous, kind, loving,
[00:28:45] financially secure family, that's clear without me,
[00:28:48] how to organize free time, that's the question,
[00:28:51] we actually developed a program that allows you to correctly select
[00:28:55] suitable resources, that is, what to do in your free time, what
[00:28:59] hobby is recommended for a particular person, what sport?
[00:29:42] Thank you very much, Tatyana, thank you very much to our
[00:29:45] viewers and listeners, with you is the Schrödinger's Cat
[00:29:48] podcast, and I am its host, Grigory Tarasevich,
[00:29:52] many thanks to Tatyana Berezina, who was our guest
[00:29:55] today, Professor of the Moscow State
[00:29:58] Psychological and Pedagogical University, Department of Extreme Psychology.