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20261104 223000 UTC
375 transcript segments
Google Cloud Speech-to-Text API (Chirp) + Gemini 2.5 Flash Non-Thinking
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[00:13:45] epochs, individual periods,
[00:15:41] Hello, this is the Psyche podcast and we continue to analyze
[00:15:45] the most difficult situations and look for solutions where it seemed that there
[00:15:49] might not be any. Each of us, for sure,
[00:15:52] has experienced this unpleasant feeling
[00:15:55] of wasted time on social
[00:15:58] networks. Our heroine today came to us
[00:16:02] with exactly this request: Marina suffers from
[00:16:05] social network addiction. Practicing
[00:16:08] clinical psychologist Olga Savkin will try
[00:16:11] to understand Marina's situation and I hope
[00:16:14] to give recommendations that will be useful to each of us.
[00:16:18] So, you found out that you
[00:16:20] are addicted? The thing is that I noticed that I
[00:16:24] wake up, immediately pick up my phone, fall asleep
[00:16:28] with my phone, and for a long time I didn't even think
[00:16:31] that something was wrong, that it was something off. I'm not sure
[00:16:35] right now what I can say. Clearly, confidently,
[00:16:37] I
[00:16:42] still cannot diagnose myself, I cannot call it an addiction, a specially trained person should do this, but I can clearly
[00:16:45] say that phones and social networks in particular
[00:16:49] have started to interfere with me in my daily
[00:16:53] life. So let's try to figure out how
[00:16:56] this happens, can you describe your typical day to us, and
[00:16:59] I wake up, pick up my phone, go
[00:17:03] to social networks, scroll
[00:17:06] through the feed, and watch videos just
[00:17:09] to quickly, quickly somehow, I don't know why, it happens that way, I'm like, I
[00:17:13] need to wash my face, well, now, and I
[00:17:16] go downstairs, sit on the couch and I'm like, okay, just 5 more minutes, and
[00:17:20] again you take out your phone, that is, yes, I continue, I think, just
[00:17:23] a little more, I washed my face, again I sit down, I'm like,
[00:17:26] now, just a little more, just a little more, and I want to sleep, and it
[00:17:29] seems to you that you are a little relaxed when
[00:17:33] you scroll through the feed, and the thing is that
[00:17:36] of course, when I go to shower, I
[00:17:39] don't scroll through the feed, thank goodness, but
[00:17:43] it's essential that I have music playing, or some
[00:17:46] podcast, in general, it's really hard for me to be
[00:17:49] in silence, so it's like you're wrapping yourself
[00:17:53] in this informational something, yes, yes, so
[00:17:56] it turns out that if I don't get information, then
[00:18:00] I don't know, I start to feel some anxiety, that I either won't
[00:18:03] have time for something in this life, or I'll miss something very important. Well,
[00:18:07] or just what else should I do? How at work? It all
[00:18:11] started there, in fact, it
[00:18:14] was initially small projects, small problems, yes, that is,
[00:18:18] and you kind of live with all this,
[00:18:20] not noticing that you have a cat, dirty
[00:18:24] dishes, possibly, that is, you are there, and from there
[00:18:28] gradually, the bigger the projects became, the bigger this
[00:18:31] addiction became. Olga, well, is it a familiar story, from the point of view of the
[00:18:35] requests that people come to you with?
[00:18:37] I think this is a very familiar story for every person in our
[00:18:41] modern society, mhm, yes,
[00:18:44] of course I have a question, I heard, Natalia,
[00:18:48] when you pronounced - such a preamble,
[00:18:51] you said that Marina suffers,
[00:18:55] I really want to ask, Marina, are you suffering from this or is it a high,
[00:18:58] after all, because when you get stuck in the mornings, just a little bit, and your eyes
[00:19:01] closed, and your body demonstrated this pleasure,
[00:19:04] what is the suffering? Actually, I was thinking about this, mhm,
[00:19:08] about whether I really
[00:19:12] suffer, and it's like, well, in fact, no, it's really
[00:19:15] pleasure, joy, and so on, but when I realize that it
[00:19:19] interferes, that is, I can be more productive, I can
[00:19:22] enjoy myself differently, get pleasure from life
[00:19:26] in some other ways,
[00:19:28] can you, well, in fact, I can,
[00:19:32] mhm, but why is it
[00:19:35] to go to some exhibition or somewhere,
[00:19:39] it's like, when I'm already in the process, I enjoy it,
[00:19:42] coming home, well, I somehow even remember, again
[00:19:46] I keep thinking that damn, well, I took photos and videos,
[00:19:50] that's great, now I would edit it like this, and it will get so many
[00:19:54] views, that is, it's always like this red thread in my life
[00:19:57] is present, but I understand that the pleasure from some
[00:20:01] deeper things, than just these clickable
[00:20:04] little things, is more lasting. And it really
[00:20:08] is somehow, well, I don't know, it can be felt, but
[00:20:11] it's easiest and fastest for me if I'm
[00:20:14] stressed or, well, I don't know, yes, always, if I'm
[00:20:18] happy, if I'm sad, if I'm cheerful, that is, it's always social networks,
[00:20:22] Marina, please tell me, and the problem that
[00:20:25] interferes, if we imagine for a second that it's no
[00:20:28] longer there, just no longer there, what will
[00:20:32] happen in life then, well, I don't know, the first thing that comes
[00:20:35] to my mind is this... that I'm out of
[00:20:39] the information field, I won't be able to
[00:20:43] find out something about my, for example, the same acquaintances,
[00:20:47] I will be somehow out of trends. I know, I won't
[00:20:50] catch up, but if we assume that
[00:20:53] everything will remain as it is, we came to
[00:20:56] the show today, you had a great time, you got some
[00:21:00] new joyful hormonal
[00:21:03] reinforcement, posted a lot of stories from here right away, of course,
[00:21:06] well, all the needs are met in our
[00:21:10] modernity, and then
[00:21:12] nothing happens, and what will happen then if you don't
[00:21:16] solve this problem, what will happen with life next, most likely... it will
[00:21:20] just be very monotonous always, that is,
[00:21:24] I, in general, if you recall, well, the past
[00:21:27] week, the past 2-3 weeks, morning
[00:21:31] and evening always begin and end
[00:21:34] the same way, in fact, it's precisely the monotony
[00:21:38] and precisely this moment that you're wasting your life, it's
[00:21:41] very scary, it turns out
[00:21:44] that it always seems to us that it's
[00:21:47] endless, we probably don't think that it
[00:21:51] can happen, well, that it's given to us for a limited
[00:21:54] time, and well, beyond
[00:21:57] just regretting that you didn't do something
[00:22:00] or couldn't remove some,
[00:22:03] well, some, as it seemed, nonsense, but which
[00:22:07] takes up a huge amount of your daily life,
[00:22:11] takes up a huge amount of time, well, I just don't want to
[00:22:14] then sit and watch and think, Lord, may I ask
[00:22:18] you, when you are now... delivering your speech, could you
[00:22:21] attribute to yourself what you are talking about, this means
[00:22:25] the "I" position, that is, I miss something not from the position
[00:22:29] of "you," right, as we are used to, the generally accepted
[00:22:32] form of speech, through "you," right when it starts
[00:22:36] with "I," maybe it will be a little different, let's explain to our viewers
[00:22:39] why this is important, and to Marina too, why you need to say, to translate
[00:22:43] this reflection, to actually pronounce
[00:22:46] it aloud, this is "I," the "I" position is always based on...
[00:23:20] the question: what will happen to your life if everything remains
[00:23:23] the same, but with the "I" position? I will
[00:23:27] waste it, first of all, uselessly, yes, everything will pass by,
[00:23:31] and absolutely, well,
[00:23:34] in fact, I will feel 100% unhappy, and
[00:23:37] 100% I will think about what, damn, why, well,
[00:23:41] just sometimes, well, if you recall, yes, there
[00:23:44] literally, for example, 3 years in a row you spent on
[00:23:48] something, I spent. I spent on something, that
[00:23:52] now I sit and think, why, and I don't want
[00:23:55] there to be social networks, if I understand
[00:23:59] that I'm roughly in the same story as 3 years ago,
[00:24:03] why do I need this, if in the end I don't
[00:24:06] know after how long, but I will look back and
[00:24:09] say, well, how could I, when
[00:24:13] the weather is so wonderful, until 2 pm on
[00:24:16] a weekend, scroll through the feed, if I could
[00:24:19] go for a walk, you have everything great, please go,
[00:24:23] entertain yourself and all that, but still I'm like, well, yes,
[00:24:27] now, now, just a little more, this
[00:24:30] "just a little more," "just a little more," and I just don't want
[00:24:34] the moment to come when this
[00:24:36] "just a little more" has ended, and I
[00:24:40] remained like this, in this position,
[00:24:44] mhm, and what is the most frightening thing
[00:24:46] to miss, one's own self-realization, in fact?
[00:24:50] Oh, how so, but it's happening right
[00:24:53] now, from morning till evening, self-realization, I wake
[00:24:56] up in the morning, take my phone, and think, I must not
[00:24:59] miss anything, but at the same time I'm afraid of the same
[00:25:02] thing at the end of my life, did I hear
[00:25:06] correctly, possibly, but
[00:25:09] there's a nuance, when, well, my
[00:25:12] profession, yes, that is, I communicate with people and promote something through
[00:25:16] social networks for them, that is, either businesses or personal brands
[00:25:20] and so on, when I do
[00:25:23] this for them, I fully, well, invest myself, with
[00:25:27] huge pleasure, tracking all
[00:25:30] those trends for them that I'm so afraid of missing, but there's
[00:25:33] a moment that I have such a
[00:25:36] desire to do this with myself, yes, with my, well, to actually
[00:25:39] realize myself through these same social
[00:25:42] networks and some kind of manifestation through them,
[00:25:45] but myself, every time I want
[00:25:49] something, I... start and say: that's it, from today
[00:25:52] I'm not just scrolling the feed, I'm
[00:25:55] working on creating content, that is, I'm giving it, not
[00:25:59] consuming it. As soon as I tell myself this,
[00:26:02] everything happens to me, oh,
[00:26:05] my side hurts a little, let's scroll, it will pass, oh, I'm still, that is,
[00:26:09] it's like, I don't know how to explain it, in fact,
[00:26:12] but as soon as I need to make exactly the decision
[00:26:16] that I want, really badly,
[00:26:20] but some kind of stupor happens, that I turn here,
[00:26:24] like, well, now, time flies very quickly, that is, I don't even notice that
[00:26:27] an hour and a half or two hours can pass, let's ask Olga about
[00:26:31] something from physiology
[00:26:34] or neurophysiology, what is happening to Marina,
[00:26:38] yes, to each of us, who are stuck on a TV series,
[00:26:41] on short videos, on some
[00:26:45] feed, because it feels like we don't fully
[00:26:49] control this situation, consciously, it's as if
[00:26:52] some deep biochemical processes
[00:26:55] control us at this moment, thank you for
[00:26:58] the question, it generally contains the answer, of course.
[00:27:02] This is a very beautiful, delicious
[00:27:06] story with dopamine. Dopamine is a neurotransmitter and hormone
[00:27:09] that actually helps us feel pleasure
[00:27:13] and helps achieve
[00:27:16] the next neurotransmitter hormone serotonin, the hormone
[00:27:19] of joy. Dopamine was once given to us evolutionarily in order
[00:27:23] to make us focus, gather
[00:27:26] our bodies, react in some way and get
[00:27:29] at least food or water, right? And
[00:27:33] get pleasure, remember when you are thirsty, when you drink, what
[00:27:36] do you do at that moment, yes, oh, how
[00:27:40] good, this "how good" is, in fact,
[00:27:43] dopamine addiction, because,
[00:27:47] mhm, we very
[00:27:51] quickly, through, if we are talking about
[00:27:54] physiology, through bright pictures, through
[00:27:57] a quick change of some information very
[00:28:01] superficially, indeed. We need to mention this, because everything that
[00:28:04] we quickly scroll through, is stored only in short-term memory,
[00:28:08] nothing remains in long-term memory, from the word
[00:28:11] zero, that is, we cannot remember
[00:28:15] what was there 5 days ago, after
[00:28:19] scrolling through some feeds for 7 days in a row, we cannot, but
[00:28:22] at the same time we constantly maintain a certain
[00:28:25] level of joy in ourselves
[00:28:28] through this neurotransmitter story, through
[00:28:31] dopamine. And naturally, by receiving
[00:28:35] positive reinforcement, we
[00:28:37] need more and more,
[00:28:40] because this is called tolerance, when
[00:28:44] we receive a certain set of such
[00:28:47] good quality pleasure and satisfaction for ourselves, we already
[00:28:51] it's boring, we need more, we need, like with any other addiction,
[00:28:54] absolutely, yes, that is, it's a behavioral addiction, by the way,
[00:28:58] now there's already a name for the fear of being without...
[00:29:32] behavior, well, tell me, it seems like, yes, that you can't, I know it
[00:29:36] from myself, but I, like many girls, yes, especially during periods of stress
[00:29:40] or anxiety, of course, I start snacking, eating away my
[00:29:43] feelings and not following any routine, yes, and you get,
[00:29:47] as soon as you go to the fridge, hop, and there's something tasty there, and you
[00:29:51] get this short-term injection of joy, you sort of
[00:29:54] consoled yourself, yes, you consoled yourself with this
[00:29:58] forbidden piece, the most interesting thing is that the more you think
[00:30:01] about the fact that I... should lead a healthy lifestyle, I shouldn't
[00:30:04] snack, I shouldn't eat what
[00:30:08] I shouldn't eat, the sweeter the pleasure you get from
[00:30:11] the forbidden fruit, it turns out that here it's
[00:30:14] the same thing, no matter how much Marina talked to
[00:30:17] herself about her life passing by, about half
[00:30:20] a day flying by instead of a park
[00:30:22] or an exhibition, still this
[00:30:26] shameful pleasure not only remains, but probably gives
[00:30:30] more and more of that very dopamine rush, which only
[00:30:33] tells us, of course, that this is actually quite often
[00:30:37] such compulsive behavior, this
[00:30:40] is some obsessive idea to do something,
[00:30:44] for example, to eat something delicious, yes, or
[00:30:47] to go on social media, but when it comes to
[00:30:51] eating behavior, I have some real fear, I will become,
[00:30:54] for example, of some size, I won't be able to wear some
[00:30:58] beautiful clothes anymore, and so on, or I'll get diabetes,
[00:31:01] for example. It's very easy to logically deduce from
[00:31:04] our examples, which we clearly see, well, that is, you
[00:31:08] mean that
[00:31:11] a person understands what it leads to, so he can stop.
[00:31:45] Well, somewhere Viktor Frankl is crying, yes, who would be very useful
[00:31:49] now in this search for the meaning of life, yes, but in general, this worries you, very
[00:31:53] speculatively, mhm, but
[00:31:56] here, I have already noticed in this conversation absolutely
[00:31:59] exactly, and there is
[00:32:02] a certain point that I would like to talk about, I want to present not
[00:32:06] clients, myself, right, did I hear correctly, mhm, that is this is about
[00:32:10] self-presentation, mhm, why do we need to self-present in a modern
[00:32:13] way? So that I would be recognized,
[00:32:17] to see love, this is
[00:32:21] what everyone is looking for, alcoholics,
[00:32:24] people who suffer from chemical addiction, these are all actually
[00:32:28] behavioral addictions, we go there, where it was once not
[00:32:32] enough, and now I'm trying to compensate for it in some
[00:32:36] very fast, convenient way, and this will be an illusion
[00:32:39] of recognition, I mean, regarding
[00:32:43] my own manifestation in society.
[00:32:45] Yes, I have some goals, ambitions, and this has been since
[00:32:48] childhood, when likes, comments, and everything else were not even
[00:32:52] in sight, now, when I understand why I need to do these
[00:32:56] or those actions specifically for myself, and not for a client, I
[00:33:00] precisely lack regularity, consistency,
[00:33:03] constancy, in general, the point is how to
[00:33:06] delineate the moment, I got confused about where this
[00:33:10] lack of love is, yes, and where we only look at likes, and where is the
[00:33:14] moment of realization of how you
[00:33:17] see it and what you want to see yourself as, say, in
[00:33:21] a few years,
[00:33:24] is it also connected to some lack of love, or maybe
[00:33:27] there's some practicality and you want this
[00:33:31] ambition, and then there's still what's with
[00:33:34] the likes, I just don't know how to explain it, it depends on what the ambition is based on, what
[00:33:38] we ultimately want to achieve,
[00:33:42] I have clearly written goals and so on...
[00:35:15] social media, mhm, what am I doing, what am I doing, and this question
[00:35:19] can be repeated so many times when
[00:35:22] we don't come to the final understanding of what
[00:35:25] I am doing right now, this is a very interesting chain, actually, a very
[00:35:29] deep one it turns out,
[00:35:32] so in the end, when we got this answer, you can ask
[00:35:36] yourself the question, am I wasting my life right now or
[00:35:39] not, mhm, yes this, but she has to want to ask
[00:35:43] herself that question at that moment. When she is engrossed, for example,
[00:35:47] in short videos, of course, naturally, how
[00:35:50] to do it, it's to write yourself, I don't know, a note, so that in the morning
[00:35:54] you wake up and you see it, of course,
[00:35:57] in fact, if we knew the final
[00:36:00] target picture of where I actually want to go, well,
[00:36:04] or where I don't want to go, but Marina, where you want to go, yes, it would be
[00:36:07] easier to plan the route, naturally, like a
[00:36:10] GPS point that we set as the final one, or we get in a taxi, we
[00:36:14] say: please take me to this address, if
[00:36:18] we don't tell the taxi driver the address, he will drive us in
[00:36:21] circles, making money from us, mhm, in the end
[00:36:24] we will just lose a lot of time. We will never reach
[00:36:28] the final point, because we didn't name it,
[00:36:31] so if we know our GPS point exactly, we can build
[00:36:35] a route to it, how far should this point be, this point should be, this very day,
[00:36:39] today I generally, for example, don't look at social
[00:36:43] networks for more than an hour not for work, or is this a point
[00:36:47] 10 years from now, yes, in 10 years I am so successful and so on, I
[00:36:50] overcame my addiction a long time ago, what
[00:36:54] scale, what approximation do I propose to go. back, that
[00:36:58] is, to set a global point, yes,
[00:37:01] the main, main one, everything I want to get on that
[00:37:05] day, just take it and yourself, ideal you mean
[00:37:08] that, your ideal one, yes, your ideal day, which I want
[00:37:12] to get, say, in 50 years, go
[00:37:15] back, go back, and what do I want to get 10
[00:37:19] years ago, and another 10 years ago, and another 10, like
[00:37:23] five times, mhm, yes, what do I want, where do I want to be, on
[00:37:26] what march?
[00:37:36] built several decades ago, then for
[00:37:39] every 10 years we build even smaller
[00:37:42] steps, yes, that is, for each year, what do I want
[00:37:46] to achieve here, what do I want to achieve here, and then we
[00:37:50] get to the day, and what do I want to
[00:37:54] do today to reach this point?
[00:37:58] And what do I want? I want to wake up in the morning and
[00:38:01] for exactly 60 minutes be without my phone,
[00:38:05] mhm, and if without my phone, then how is that,
[00:38:09] what do I want to be with then, or with whom? I
[00:38:12] am now - actually,
[00:38:15] there is an answer, because I used to
[00:38:19] practice these morning
[00:38:22] rituals, it brought me great pleasure and
[00:38:26] resources and... and I really left the house feeling
[00:38:30] like I could move mountains, the world and, well, again,
[00:38:33] it was always
[00:38:36] fifteen-minute meditations, but when I
[00:38:39] specifically set out to practice these morning
[00:38:42] rituals, to dedicate the morning hours specifically to myself, I recorded
[00:38:46] the screen, I woke up, my phone was in sleep mode, I didn't
[00:38:49] put it away until this happened, meaning I basically turned on the screen
[00:38:52] recording, the video of the meditation played, so for those 15 minutes
[00:38:56] it was just me... Well,
[00:39:36] that is, I understand that there is Marina who helplessly gets stuck
[00:39:39] in this endless stream of videos, yes, and there is
[00:39:43] a successful, composed, conscious Marina who
[00:39:46] woke up, so and this answer, by the way,
[00:39:50] today,
[00:39:52] well, forgive the backstory, but it's important, in
[00:39:55] short, while...
[00:39:58] on the train still in St. Petersburg, I was talking to my dad, and I
[00:40:01] was explaining the situation to him, that I'm going to a shoot now, I'm very
[00:40:05] interested and I want to, but I need 2 days,
[00:40:09] conditionally, to skip work, and I was so
[00:40:11] worried, how can this be, how can I allow myself to do this, although
[00:40:15] well, everyone treats it adequately,
[00:40:18] and I explain to him, I say, and I really
[00:40:22] scolded myself for it and was so anxious, and then it was as if some other
[00:40:25] part of me took my hand and said: calm down! And I calmed down, and he tells me,
[00:40:29] well, how much more can it be, we've talked about this 100 times, you can allow yourself to do whatever
[00:40:33] you want, well, something like that, what a great dad you have, yes, but we
[00:40:37] really had a situation there again related to this super addicted
[00:40:40] person, where we really united
[00:40:44] and started discussing all this, so they support me a lot, and I tell him:
[00:40:48] you know, I just had a metaphor come to mind, and this is the answer to your
[00:40:52] question, I say, you know,