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[00:00:07] MUSIC
[00:00:11] Live from London. This is BBC News,
[00:00:17] News, new strikes hit two refineries refineries deep inside Russia as
[00:00:20] as a wave of Ukrainian drones target
[00:00:22] target the country. The BBC has granted
[00:00:25] granted rare access to Ukraine's Ukraine's navy as it patrols the
[00:00:29] the dangerous waters in the Black
[00:00:30] Black Sea. We have a special report.
[00:00:33] report. This vessel can look after after itself more or less. But what
[00:00:37] what it can't do is to stop Russia Russia attacking civilian ships coming
[00:00:40] coming in and out of Ukraine's ports.
[00:00:44] ports. Breaking news from the last last few minutes. The English FA
[00:00:48] FA withdraws support for the embattled
[00:00:50] embattled Fifa president Gianni Infantino.
[00:00:53] Infantino. Power failure causes major major disruption across railways
[00:00:56] railways in the northwest of England.
[00:00:57] England. We'll bring you the latest.
[00:01:09] latest. Hello and welcome to BBC BBC News. Ukraine has struck two
[00:01:12] two oil refineries deep inside Russia, Russia, including one of the country's
[00:01:16] country's largest, sparking huge huge columns of smoke over the city
[00:01:20] city of Yaroslavl. Ukraine's president president said they targeted the
[00:01:23] the refinery and another one as part part of its efforts to cut the revenues
[00:01:26] revenues which fund the Kremlin's Kremlin's war efforts. Well, across
[00:01:30] across Russia, the military says
[00:01:31] says it's intercepted and destroyed
[00:01:34] destroyed over 600 Ukrainian drones. drones. Meanwhile in Ukraine, at
[00:01:37] at least ten deaths have been reported reported following the latest wave
[00:01:40] wave of Russian air strikes. Russian
[00:01:42] Russian drones hit an apartment block block in Zaporizhzhia. Well, Russia
[00:01:46] Russia and Ukraine have stepped up
[00:01:47] up their attacks in recent weeks, weeks, particularly in the Black
[00:01:51] Black Sea. Russia has been targeting targeting ships using this corridor,
[00:01:55] corridor, which is supposed to allow allow international ships to bring
[00:01:58] bring goods safely in and out of
[00:02:01] of Ukraine. Ukraine has been launching launching its own attacks on ships
[00:02:03] ships here in the Sea of Azov to to try to cut off all supplies to
[00:02:07] to Russian occupied Crimea. So that's that's just part of the backdrop.
[00:02:11] backdrop. Let's start this hour with with the special report from our our correspondent Paul Adams, who's
[00:02:14] who's been granted rare access to to Ukraine's navy in the Black Sea
[00:02:17] Sea on condition he didn't reveal
[00:02:20] reveal their exact location. We're
[00:02:24] We're going on patrol with the Ukrainian
[00:02:26] Ukrainian navy out into waters made made increasingly dangerous by Russian
[00:02:30] Russian attacks. Rare access to a
[00:02:32] a unit facing constant danger in in a part of the country where a
[00:02:36] a drone or ballistic missile can
[00:02:38] can arrive with little warning. Yeah,
[00:02:40] Yeah, everyone is focused on alert. alert. They fire their guns every
[00:02:44] every day. This morning it looks
[00:02:46] looks deceptively calm with its guns,
[00:02:49] guns, it's netting and some of the the other equipment on board this
[00:02:52] this vessel can look after itself itself more or less. But what it
[00:02:55] it can't do is to stop Russia attacking
[00:02:58] attacking civilian ships coming in
[00:03:00] in and out of Ukraine's ports. Those
[00:03:03] Those attacks are increasing and and it's a major problem. There's
[00:03:06] There's a war out at sea Russia and
[00:03:09] and Ukraine hitting each other's other's ships, hundreds of them.
[00:03:12] them. For the past month, the images
[00:03:14] images have been pouring in. Every
[00:03:18] Every day we have to rescue crews crews and take measures to prevent
[00:03:21] prevent these attacks and reduce reduce their number. We're doing
[00:03:24] doing everything we possibly can. Ukraine is one of the world's
[00:03:28] world's largest grain exporters. exporters. Before the war, when these
[00:03:31] these pictures were taken, Odesa's
[00:03:32] Odesa's ports helped feed the world.
[00:03:36] world. The country's grain exporters exporters are worried the summer
[00:03:39] summer harvest is in full swing. swing. Russia's attacks coming at
[00:03:42] at the worst possible time. I would
[00:03:45] would say that we already have lost
[00:03:48] lost the ability to deliver to global
[00:03:53] global consumer around half 1 million million or 700,000 metric tonnes
[00:03:55] tonnes of Ukrainian grains and oilseeds. oilseeds. The war at sea is raging,
[00:03:59] raging, some of it out over the horizon,
[00:04:01] horizon, some of it right here along along the coast. Ukraine and Russia
[00:04:04] Russia are looking to exert maximum maximum economic pressure on each
[00:04:08] each other. For those who live and
[00:04:10] and work here, life is becoming increasingly
[00:04:14] increasingly dangerous. Svetlana Svetlana works in Odesa's port. She's
[00:04:17] She's been limping for the past year year ever since a Russian missile
[00:04:21] missile exploded nearby, killing killing two of her colleagues. The
[00:04:24] The last few weeks, she says, have
[00:04:26] have been grim. Oh. Low. It's very
[00:04:32] very difficult. A lot of sirens,
[00:04:35] sirens, a lot of drones, a lot of
[00:04:37] of hits. And for morale it's even
[00:04:39] even more difficult. People are very
[00:04:42] very tense. What can I say? Look
[00:04:45] Look at my hands. For all its dangers,
[00:04:51] dangers, this is summer in Odesa. Odesa. Ukrainians have flocked to
[00:04:54] to the beach. Mostly ignoring the
[00:04:59] the sirens and showing only mild mild interest. Earlier this week,
[00:05:03] week, when a Russian drone washed
[00:05:05] washed ashore. At the other end of
[00:05:07] of the Black Sea on the same day.
[00:05:12] day. Seven Russians were killed when
[00:05:14] when an intercepted Ukrainian drone
[00:05:17] drone fell on their beach back near near Odesa. We go looking for the
[00:05:20] the site of an explosion we heard
[00:05:22] heard earlier. We find 83-year-old
[00:05:25] 83-year-old Andrei Dudek in the shattered shattered ruins of his house and
[00:05:28] and garden. It's been just five hours
[00:05:30] hours since a jet powered drone interrupted
[00:05:33] interrupted his afternoon nap. Somehow Somehow he escaped without a scratch.
[00:05:37] scratch. You think that you are the
[00:05:40] the accidental victim of Russia's
[00:05:43] Russia's attacks on the ports? Absolutely,
[00:05:46] Absolutely, he says. I won't forget
[00:05:50] forget this. This war on ships and
[00:05:52] and ports has many casual victims
[00:05:54] victims sailors, dock workers or or people simply unlucky enough to
[00:05:58] to live or work nearby. Paul Adams,
[00:06:01] Adams, BBC News, Odesa. Well, let's let's speak live to Michael Bociurkiw.
[00:06:04] Bociurkiw. He's a senior fellow at at the Atlantic Council. He's there
[00:06:07] there in the Ukrainian Black Sea Sea port of Odesa. Michael, thank
[00:06:10] thank you so much for being here here with us. Paul Adams wrote a
[00:06:13] a piece on the website. He'd been been talking to people saying that
[00:06:17] that those who live in Odesa feel
[00:06:19] feel that nowhere is safe around around that Black Sea area. Is that
[00:06:23] that how it feels to you? You're
[00:06:24] You're there. Yeah. Good to be with
[00:06:27] with you, Matthew. Well, always difficult difficult to follow the excellent excellent Paul Adams, but I think
[00:06:31] think he hit the nail on the head. head. In fact, I just came a few
[00:06:34] few minutes ago back from the city
[00:06:36] city centre. The air raid sirens
[00:06:39] sirens went off a few times. People People were in a panic. We could
[00:06:43] could hear the anti-aircraft guns guns going off over the port and
[00:06:47] and it is scary and you know, it
[00:06:50] it almost makes me tear up is that that when you hug people, long-time
[00:06:53] long-time friends here in Odesa, Odesa, you feel now really for the
[00:06:57] the first time that it could be your
[00:06:59] your last. And that's how unsafe unsafe it has become everywhere.
[00:07:03] everywhere. You only have to walk walk perhaps five minutes in any
[00:07:07] any direction in the city to see see destruction. And in fact, just
[00:07:10] just before I came on air, according
[00:07:13] according to several telegram channels channels which have photos and videos,
[00:07:17] videos, a second ship was hit out
[00:07:18] out in the port today. And just quickly, quickly, Matthew, this is important important because what they seem
[00:07:22] seem to be doing and not only targeting
[00:07:25] targeting targeted strikes but also also targeting ships that have previously
[00:07:29] previously been immobilised by Russian
[00:07:32] Russian strikes, but they're full full of cargo, mostly corn and wheat,
[00:07:35] wheat, but also full of bunker oil, oil, which means if they do get hit
[00:07:39] hit a second time, it could cause
[00:07:41] cause an ecological disaster. Here Here in Odesa. You describe what
[00:07:45] what it's like there so graphically. graphically. So thank you for that.
[00:07:49] that. But just for people watching watching around the world, quite
[00:07:51] quite often when we've been reporting
[00:07:53] reporting this war, we see strikes strikes around Kyiv. We've recently
[00:07:56] recently been talking about Ukrainian Ukrainian strikes deep inside Russia, Russia, not so much about what's
[00:08:00] what's been happening around the
[00:08:02] the Black Sea area, but how important
[00:08:05] important in this conflict is the
[00:08:07] the battle around there. Oh, well, well, it can't be overestimated.
[00:08:11] overestimated. I mean, this is world world port Odesa. This is a port
[00:08:14] port that feeds the world. Many countries
[00:08:17] countries on the brink of starvation.
[00:08:20] starvation. And it's not only food food items like corn and wheat, it's
[00:08:23] it's also fertiliser, things like like that that help farmers around
[00:08:26] around the world. And the I believe believe Paul touched on this in his
[00:08:29] his piece The Harvest season here here is happening shortly or already
[00:08:33] already starting to happen. And farmers farmers won't have a way to get their
[00:08:36] their goods out to world markets.
[00:08:38] markets. The roads are clogged. So
[00:08:40] So those kind of supply those corridors corridors that would otherwise be
[00:08:43] be available rail as well just aren't
[00:08:46] aren't there right now. Really briefly briefly if you could in terms of
[00:08:49] of those wider reports we were going going through only a few moments
[00:08:52] moments ago, those strikes deep into into Russia, the Wildberries they
[00:08:55] they were all Friday's and then Russia's
[00:08:57] Russia's response is do you see anything
[00:09:01] anything that has a chance of moving moving the dynamic here of what we've
[00:09:03] we've seen for 4 or 5 years? Well,
[00:09:06] Well, briefly, I mean, it is a tit-for-tat
[00:09:09] tit-for-tat now Ukraine strikes Wildberries Wildberries they strike back here here to the Ukrainian versions of
[00:09:12] of Home Depot. So that's very bad.
[00:09:15] bad. But you know the feeling here here is that the Trump administration
[00:09:19] administration can no longer be relied relied upon if we take the big three
[00:09:22] three players right now in this war
[00:09:23] war Russia, Iran and now North Korea,
[00:09:26] Korea, all of those lines go through through Beijing. And I think the
[00:09:30] the Ukrainians, if they want to see
[00:09:31] see some progress on the peace front, front, have to start leaning a bit
[00:09:35] bit more on Beijing to they have have the speed dial to all of these
[00:09:39] these leaders of these countries countries and could move things forward.
[00:09:42] forward. It may make them look better, better, especially if they don't
[00:09:44] don't want to see Russia and Iran Iran become failed states. So there's
[00:09:47] there's a lot at stake here. But But the diplomatic kind of ballet
[00:09:51] ballet here has to take a bit of
[00:09:53] of a switch for this war to end sooner sooner rather than later. Michael
[00:09:57] Michael Bociurkiw, great to talk talk to you as always. Thanks so
[00:09:59] so much for being here with us. Thank
[00:10:03] Thank you. Let's return to that breaking breaking news the last few minutes.
[00:10:06] minutes. The English FA have now now officially withdrawn their support
[00:10:10] support for the Fifa president, Gianni Gianni Infantino, after another day
[00:10:13] day of turbulent political developments developments around the embattled
[00:10:16] embattled head of world football. football. So let's talk to BBC Sport's
[00:10:20] Sport's Hugh Ferriss and Hugh. So
[00:10:22] So the English FA sending off that
[00:10:25] that letter, it was expected but but it's been sent Uefa repeating
[00:10:28] repeating their threats of boycotts. boycotts. It's another really turbulent
[00:10:31] turbulent day, as I was just saying. saying. Yes indeed. Matthew, hello
[00:10:34] hello to you. And the timing of it.
[00:10:37] it. Perhaps instructive given that that Fifa through Gianni Infantino
[00:10:41] Infantino and the Secretary General, General, Mattias Grafstrom, said
[00:10:44] said that statement out late last last night in part apologising for
[00:10:48] for everything that had happened happened up until this point with
[00:10:51] with the aborted attempts to create create this commercial subsidiary
[00:10:54] subsidiary into which they would would invite outside investment.
[00:10:57] investment. Because the FA have seen seen that and they have decided to
[00:11:01] to not change their stance and this this letter that they've had ready ready to go, we understand officially
[00:11:05] officially withdrawing support which which they had previously given to
[00:11:07] to Gianni Infantino for his prospective
[00:11:10] prospective re-election in March
[00:11:12] March of next year, has been formally formally withdrawn. And what we've
[00:11:16] we've seen over the last few hours, hours, Matthew, has essentially been
[00:11:19] been the battle lines that have been
[00:11:21] been drawn, being drawn ever more
[00:11:23] more firmly in response to that statement statement from Fifa having had that
[00:11:27] that meeting with the senior leaders leaders and executives in Morocco
[00:11:30] Morocco yesterday, Uefa talking about about the boycott that they originally
[00:11:34] originally announced in response response to the deal, will still
[00:11:37] still go ahead because they say conditions conditions that they outlined in
[00:11:41] in their initial rejection of Infantino's Infantino's plans last week have
[00:11:44] have not been met and that they say
[00:11:48] say nothing has changed after what what Fifa stated last night, attempting
[00:11:51] attempting to draw a line under the
[00:11:53] the affair, the players union FIFPRO, FIFPRO, who were against the plans
[00:11:57] plans last week, have also said that that that statement last night was
[00:12:00] was a profound abuse of presidential presidential power. They said that
[00:12:04] that Fifa Forward Enterprise is gone, gone, but the abuse of power that
[00:12:08] that produced it is not governance governance reforms, not a cover up
[00:12:10] up are urgently needed. So those those who are against it in the first
[00:12:14] first place have not been assuaged assuaged from that point of view.
[00:12:17] view. Matthew, by what has happened happened from the Fifa point of view
[00:12:21] view last night. You really briefly, briefly, if there is to be a challenge,
[00:12:25] challenge, how does a challenge happen? happen? Well, it's a numbers game
[00:12:28] game essentially. Matthew, to get
[00:12:32] get 106 members of Fifa's 211 member member associations, you have to
[00:12:35] to gather together the votes. That
[00:12:37] That would be to oust the Fifa president president in the election, which
[00:12:40] which is coming up in March of next
[00:12:42] next year. But Uefa with their 55
[00:12:46] 55 if they are to be unified member member associations, would need a
[00:12:50] a lot more than just what they can
[00:12:52] can call upon. There is the prospect
[00:12:55] prospect of an extraordinary Congress
[00:12:57] Congress to vote on the potential
[00:12:59] potential ousting of Gianni Infantino Infantino but crucially, Conmebol,
[00:13:03] Conmebol, who is the South American American Federation. They've come come out this afternoon saying that
[00:13:06] that they would not like that to to happen and that the normal procedures
[00:13:10] procedures and democracy to take take place as is instituted by the
[00:13:13] the November deadline for potential potential challenges to Infantino
[00:13:17] Infantino and that March election election next year. Hugh, thanks thanks for taking us through all
[00:13:21] all of that. What I've been talking talking to Jim Boyce. He's a former former Vice President of Fifa. He
[00:13:25] He told me he's not surprised that
[00:13:27] that Fifa management decided to back
[00:13:29] back Infantino yesterday evening.
[00:13:32] evening. These people are employees employees of Fifa. It's their jobs.
[00:13:36] jobs. Their jobs are at stake. And
[00:13:38] And I think it was perfectly obvious obvious that they were going to come
[00:13:42] come out and hand back the President President because obviously it's
[00:13:45] it's their livelihood and it doesn't doesn't surprise me in the slightest.
[00:13:49] slightest. How perilous is his position,
[00:13:52] position, do you think? Well, I think
[00:13:55] think his position is quite perilous,
[00:13:57] perilous, but I think an awful lot
[00:13:59] lot depends my hearing what Uefa
[00:14:02] Uefa and I have just read the statement. statement. They don't appear to be
[00:14:05] be backing down. I have always said said that a World Cup without the
[00:14:09] the European teams in it, it just
[00:14:11] just wouldn't work. But there's more
[00:14:14] more serious problems initially because
[00:14:16] because the Women's World Cup qualifiers
[00:14:18] qualifiers are taking place in October October of this year and at this
[00:14:22] this point in time, Uefa have said
[00:14:25] said that their European teams will
[00:14:27] will not be playing in these qualifiers. qualifiers. So. And you really think
[00:14:31] think that's a possibility? Do you you think of not just talking about
[00:14:34] about a boycott but actually going going through with it? Women and
[00:14:38] and men? Well they've said so they've
[00:14:41] they've said and I think now somehow
[00:14:44] somehow for this to be resolved.
[00:14:47] resolved. Gianni Infantino and obviously
[00:14:49] obviously the President of Uefa have
[00:14:51] have got to somehow sit down and and have got to try to resolve, which
[00:14:55] which is a very serious situation. situation. Final quick question,
[00:14:58] question, because as yet we don't don't have any sort of contender contender who might stand against
[00:15:02] against him. I suppose that helps
[00:15:03] helps him. As of now, you know him.
[00:15:06] him. You know how much of a powerbroker
[00:15:08] powerbroker he is. You know how he he works behind the scenes. Can you
[00:15:12] you see a situation still that despite despite this Ferrari that exists
[00:15:16] exists now that he can see it off?
[00:15:18] off? Yes I do. I think that I think
[00:15:23] think someone may well challenge challenge him now. I mean, three
[00:15:25] three weeks ago it appeared that that there was over 200 associations
[00:15:29] associations that had already given given him his backing. So he was
[00:15:31] was going to walk in at the end of of the day, even though he does face
[00:15:35] face a challenge, I'm not sure there's there's somebody strong enough that
[00:15:38] that would be able to defeat him. him. More on that story as it comes
[00:15:42] comes in. We're going to take a short short break around the
[08:48:59] Iran have put pressure on those here here at the White House. The stakes stakes are high for Republicans and and Democrats and for the American
[08:49:03] American people. For the latest, latest, follow us on the President's
[08:49:05] President's path here. On BBC News.
[08:49:11] News. Welcome back. And let's turn turn back to those problems facing
[08:49:14] facing railways in northern England England after a power failure left
[08:49:18] left thousands of travellers stranded. stranded. While Network Rail is warning
[08:49:21] warning of major disruptions due due to power issues impacting signalling,
[08:49:24] signalling, and has warned that the the problems could last for the rest
[08:49:27] rest of the day. The power failure failure happened just before 2pm
[08:49:30] 2pm local time. The affected centre centre in Manchester houses all the
[08:49:34] the controls to safely operate the the railway. So let's hear from our
[08:49:38] our North of England correspondent. correspondent. First of all, Rowan
[08:49:40] Rowan Bridge, he was actually on
[08:49:42] on one of those trains. This service service left Manchester Piccadilly
[08:49:46] Piccadilly just after 1:00 this afternoon afternoon and we realised there were
[08:49:49] were problems not long after that that because the train sort of juddered
[08:49:53] juddered to a halt. It then sat there there for a while and then finally finally made it through to Macclesfield.
[08:49:57] Macclesfield. But then it basically basically sat at Macclesfield for
[08:49:59] for the best part of an hour. We're
[08:50:02] We're now clear of that and you may may be able to tell the train is
[08:50:05] is now on its way down to London, London, but other services that left
[08:50:09] left Manchester after us haven't haven't been so fortunate. The reason
[08:50:11] reason we've made it through is that that they were able to basically basically guide the train through
[08:50:15] through the last of the problems problems with the signalling and and onto the track where it was clear,
[08:50:19] clear, and that's why we're on the the move. But the services behind
[08:50:22] behind us haven't been so fortunate. fortunate. They are still caught caught up in all the signalling problems,
[08:50:26] problems, and that means they are are going to face even more significant significant delays than we're facing
[08:50:30] facing at the moment. We're due into into Euston about an hour or so later
[08:50:34] later than we were meant to arrive arrive there, but thankfully we are are going to make it. But it's going
[08:50:38] going to cause disruption for people people like us who are trying to
[08:50:41] to make connections onto other services. services. Well, that was Rowan Bridge
[08:50:44] Bridge with me here still, as our our correspondent Sean Dilley keeping keeping across all of this. Shaun,
[08:50:48] Shaun, tell us a little more about about the cause of this and just
[08:50:51] just how long it is going to go on on for because it's affecting thousands
[08:50:55] thousands of people. Yeah, it is is the origin of this is what some
[08:50:59] some people call the rock, the rail rail operating centre in Ardwick
[08:51:02] Ardwick in Manchester there was a
[08:51:03] a power cut in the area. Disruption
[08:51:07] Disruption happened. Transport for for Greater Manchester say around
[08:51:09] around about 2:00 in the afternoon. afternoon. Now we understand that
[08:51:13] that it wasn't just the rail network network that was impacted, it was
[08:51:15] was in the area more broadly, but but it had a pretty devastating impact
[08:51:19] impact on a very important part of
[08:51:21] of the rail infrastructure. Instantly Instantly contingency plans were
[08:51:25] were put into place. Managers are
[08:51:27] are safely guiding trains into trains, trains, into railway stations. Now
[08:51:31] Now that was a priority, but so too too was communications. And actually
[08:51:35] actually what was notable to me watching watching these things for many years
[08:51:38] years is how quickly social media media channels were updated and a
[08:51:41] a disruption map was put up online.
[08:51:44] online. Many people, of course, contacting
[08:51:46] contacting us on the BBC News Live Live page sharing their stories.
[08:51:49] stories. We've heard how swimming swimming instructors, for example, example, are concerned they might
[08:51:52] might not get from Bristol to Edinburgh
[08:51:55] Edinburgh in time for an event this this evening we've heard massage
[08:51:58] massage therapists say they're also also concerned about their experience.
[08:52:02] experience. Now that that we heard heard from our North of England correspondent correspondent is fairly typical with
[08:52:06] with some passengers worried and and upset. But what I can tell you,
[08:52:09] you, having spoken to sources in
[08:52:11] in Whitehall and in the transport transport network generally is yes,
[08:52:15] yes, there is likely to be disruption
[08:52:18] disruption into this evening. If If you can check travel, that's absolutely
[08:52:22] absolutely advisable. But things
[08:52:24] things are now slowly finding themselves themselves heading in the right direction.
[08:52:28] direction. Trains are where they they need to be. Railway stations
[08:52:30] stations are getting back to where
[08:52:32] where they need to be. Do check out out the BBC online live page for
[08:52:36] for all of the latest. Sean, thanks thanks for taking us through all all of that. Thank you. Now let's
[08:52:40] let's turn to the Iran war with reports reports of a possible breakthrough
[08:52:43] breakthrough over the Strait of Hormuz.
[08:52:44] Hormuz. Iran says they're close to to finalising an interim agreement
[08:52:48] agreement with Oman over the vital vital waterway, which has effectively effectively been closed since the
[08:52:51] the start of the conflict in February. February. Pakistan, which is mediating
[08:52:55] mediating between the US and Iran, Iran, says it hopes an agreement agreement will lead Washington and
[08:52:59] and Tehran to resume talks and resolve resolve their conflict. If confirmed,
[08:53:02] confirmed, a deal might begin to to ease the economic crisis that
[08:53:06] that has shaken markets over months. months. But it could also cement
[08:53:09] cement Iranian control over the maritime maritime choke point. Well, let's
[08:53:13] let's get the latest. Joining me me now is Bahman Kalbasi from BBC
[08:53:16] BBC Persian and also our North America
[08:53:20] America correspondent Shaimaa Khalil Khalil Batman. Let me start with with you because tell me a little
[08:53:23] little more about what the Iranians Iranians are saying about what this
[08:53:26] this deal actually looks like. They
[08:53:30] They haven't gone into details, but
[08:53:32] but they are saying that they have
[08:53:34] have reached sort of a general agreement agreement with Omanis. The parameters
[08:53:38] parameters of it are agreed to, the
[08:53:41] the routes are agreed to. So now now we're waiting for more details.
[08:53:44] details. Is there going to be a toll
[08:53:47] toll charged? If so, what the percentage
[08:53:48] percentage is? We've heard something something around 5 to 7% is what
[08:53:53] what Iranians are proposing. Apparently Apparently Omanis want something
[08:53:55] something smaller, maybe around 3%.
[08:53:58] 3%. Americans, at least. The official official position is that there shouldn't
[08:54:01] shouldn't be any toll at all. But
[08:54:04] But nevertheless, even if there are,
[08:54:06] are, there is no toll. The sort of of recognition and acknowledgement
[08:54:10] acknowledgement of Iran's control
[08:54:12] control or monitoring of this, as
[08:54:14] as it was mentioned in the memorandum
[08:54:17] memorandum Memorandum of Understanding
[08:54:20] Understanding the fifth column of
[08:54:23] of that memorandum where it specifically
[08:54:25] specifically said Iran and Oman manages
[08:54:27] manages are going to manage Strait Strait of Hormuz jointly or in co-ordination
[08:54:31] co-ordination with each other. This This will be an achievement for them
[08:54:34] them to say, regardless of what the
[08:54:36] the fees are going to be, that the
[08:54:39] the West in the United States specifically specifically and countries in the
[08:54:42] the Persian Gulf all sort of acknowledge acknowledge that Iran will have to
[08:54:46] to play a role. And it's the role
[08:54:48] role in controlling the strait is is legitimate. And that would be
[08:54:52] be an important step for
[08:54:56] Tehran. So we are seeing the outlines outlines of a deal, I suppose what what is still unclear, you could
[08:55:00] could get an agreement between Iran
[08:55:02] Iran and Oman, but that does not not necessitate an agreement between
[08:55:06] between Tehran and Washington, does
[08:55:07] does it? I think you took the words
[08:55:10] words right out of my mouth. I cannot
[08:55:12] cannot stress enough that a deal
[08:55:15] deal or an agreement or a potential potential agreement between
[08:55:19] Iran and Oman over control, and we we need to underline the word control
[08:55:23] control here because that means so so much to Tehran. That doesn't mean
[08:55:27] mean necessarily that this is going going to be a quote unquote deal
[08:55:30] deal between Iran and the United United States. Again, I cannot stress
[08:55:33] stress enough that we're still a
[08:55:35] a way away from that because we could could get those parameters. And I
[08:55:39] I think the language used in the the trickles of what we're getting
[08:55:43] getting in the fine print is really really interesting. And I'll just
[08:55:45] just take you through some very quick quick bullet points. Ships entering
[08:55:48] entering the Gulf would use an Iranian
[08:55:51] Iranian controlled route. Iran would would have authority over inbound
[08:55:55] inbound vessels and the ability to to intervene. Ships leaving the Gulf
[08:55:58] Gulf would use routes running between between Iranian and Omani waters.
[08:56:01] waters. Oman would give the final
[08:56:03] final exit clearance, but only if
[08:56:06] if Iran had been notified and therefore
[08:56:08] therefore this retains Iran's control control over outgoing. The parameters
[08:56:12] parameters the. The geography of of it is still being agreed upon
[08:56:15] upon and then, as mentioned, there there are the fees. We can call them
[08:56:18] them tolls. We can call them fees.
[08:56:20] fees. But these are not just fees
[08:56:22] fees in terms of security or environment.
[08:56:25] environment. These are percentages percentages of the value of the cargo.
[08:56:28] cargo. This is going to be a whole whole other can of worms about whether
[08:56:31] whether or not some of the cargo cargo ships, some of the companies,
[08:56:35] companies, the insurers are going going to accept this. So yes, we're
[08:56:39] we're getting all those details. details. Remember they haven't been been agreed upon. Even if they do
[08:56:42] do that needs to go back to Iran,
[08:56:44] Iran, to Tehran, to Ayatollah Khamenei Khamenei and his council to agree
[08:56:48] agree upon. And then there is Washington,
[08:56:51] Washington, all of this that's in in front of us tells us that this
[08:56:54] this is going to be turned from the the Strait of Hormuz, is going to
[08:56:57] to be turned from a free shipping shipping route to an Iranian controlled
[08:57:00] controlled route. That is exactly exactly what Washington does not
[08:57:03] not want. I've only got about a minute minute and a quarter, and I want want to squeeze in a question to
[08:57:07] to both of you so briefly, if you you could, Shimer of course, Donald Donald Trump has said Iran would
[08:57:10] would be hit very hard if the strait strait doesn't open very soon. He's He's made those threats before and
[08:57:14] and of course not carried them out.
[08:57:17] out. Yes. And this has been a pattern
[08:57:19] pattern of Donald Trump's that he he threatens military action, that
[08:57:22] that he pulls back and says there there are talks and then Iran goes
[08:57:26] goes back and forth into what these these talks look like. I think that
[08:57:29] that Iran has called President Trump's Trump's bluff many times. They have
[08:57:33] have shown that they can ride these these waves, but they also take them
[08:57:37] them seriously because Donald Trump Trump has done this before, where where Iran has been hit. But also,
[08:57:40] also, of course, Iran then retaliates. retaliates. Rahman 30s and apologies
[08:57:44] apologies for that. But, you know, know, in the prospects of actual
[08:57:47] actual talks to resolve all the major
[08:57:51] major areas of this confrontation confrontation and conflict, how far
[08:57:53] far away are those. They're far away. away. But we heard from the foreign
[08:57:57] foreign minister of Iran in recent recent days that the demands of the
[08:58:00] the Americans have on the nuclear
[08:58:02] nuclear file are so outrageous and and outside of the bounds of what
[08:58:06] what Iran is prepared to give. That
[08:58:08] That is why we divided the two and
[08:58:11] and pushed the nuclear file to a
[08:58:13] a later stage. So for Iran settling
[08:58:16] settling straight and lifting the the blockade and getting some oil
[08:58:20] oil sanctioned release and relief
[08:59:51] into next week, hitting the 50 Celsius Celsius mark
[09:01:55] editor in chief of The Economist Economist will tell us about her her experience. It's all on The Media
[09:01:59] Media Show on BBC News. MUSIC
[09:02:11] MUSIC Now Now on BBC News. The biggest African
[09:02:14] African and international news stories
[09:02:16] stories focus on Africa.
[09:02:28] Coming to you live from
[09:02:30] Nairobi. This is Focus on Africa,
[09:02:32] Africa, on BBC News on the programme
[09:02:35] programme today 36 African migrants migrants deported from the United
[09:02:38] United States to Cameroon have gone gone to court to stop their removal
[09:02:42] removal to their home countries, countries, challenging a controversial
[09:02:45] controversial US Cameroon migration migration agreement and seeking legal
[09:02:48] legal permission to remain in Cameroon.
[09:02:50] Cameroon. For Cameroon to have accepted
[09:02:53] accepted to get them to Cameroon.
[09:02:57] Cameroon. That was presupposing two two things that one, that Cameroon
[09:02:59] Cameroon was safe enough for them
[09:03:01] them to be there. Elsewhere. CAF's
[09:03:04] CAF's executive committee meets today
[09:03:06] today in Egypt as Fifa president
[09:03:09] president Gianni Infantino continues continues to seek African backing
[09:03:12] backing and Uefa maintaining its