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[00:00:22] This is BBC News your headlines. More scrutiny on Fifa
[00:00:25] Fifa president Gianni Infantino as as allegations emerge in the Daily
[00:00:28] Daily Telegraph that a woman he had had an alleged
[00:00:35] He had an alleged relationship with was given a six figure severance severance payment while he was general
[00:00:38] general secretary of Uefa. Fifa says says the story is categorically untrue. untrue. At least three people, including
[00:00:41] including a child, have been killed killed in overnight Russian attacks
[00:00:45] attacks near the Ukrainian capital
[00:00:47] capital Kyiv, in an exclusive interview interview with BBC Newsnight, Hunter
[00:00:51] Hunter Biden says his pardon was
[00:00:52] was not good for America or his father's
[00:00:56] father's legacy and two Metropolitan Metropolitan Police officers are
[00:00:59] are being investigated by a watchdog watchdog over alleged failures in
[00:01:02] in their handling of a serial sex
[00:01:05] sex offender who murdered two women. women. Those are the latest headlines
[00:01:08] headlines from BBC News. I'm Luxmy
[00:01:12] Luxmy Gopal. Global business news
[00:01:20] news from the boardroom or grassroots grassroots BBC News cuts through
[00:01:23] through the jargon to add colour, colour, depth and context with live
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[00:01:33] innovations in technology. Talking
[00:01:35] Talking Business. Hello and welcome. To Talking Business weekly.
[00:01:38] weekly. Let's take a look at what's
[00:01:40] what's on the show. Can oil really really get Venezuela's economy back
[00:01:44] back on track? It's got the world's world's biggest reserves, so can
[00:01:48] can it take advantage as events in in the Middle East redraw the global
[00:01:51] global energy map? Venezuela is reeling
[00:01:54] reeling from the damage of deadly deadly double earthquakes, a mountain
[00:01:57] mountain of debt and years of economic economic mismanagement. So can the
[00:02:01] the interim president turn the economy
[00:02:03] economy around and reinvent the country's country's future? Well, I'm going
[00:02:07] going to be discussing all of this this with these two. This former
[00:02:10] former head of Venezuela's central central bank will explain how the the country got into such a mess
[00:02:14] mess and why it can be hopeful for
[00:02:16] for the future. And the head of Venezuela's Venezuela's Chamber of Commerce tells
[00:02:20] tells us what changes his members members want as they seek to provide
[00:02:23] provide the country the growth it
[00:02:24] it needs. Plus, with oil key to Venezuela's Venezuela's future, this seasoned
[00:02:28] seasoned oil executive tells me why why his company wants to invest billions
[00:02:32] billions in bringing it up to speed
[00:02:34] speed despite the risks and instability.
[00:02:40] instability. Wherever you're joining joining me from, welcome to the show.
[00:02:43] show. The world's biggest ever debt debt restructuring and a huge repair
[00:02:46] repair bill from two devastating devastating earthquakes hardly sounds
[00:02:49] sounds like a recipe for economic economic success. But if Venezuela
[00:02:53] Venezuela can overcome them, it could could hold the fate of the global
[00:02:56] global economy in its hands. At the the start of this year, its president,
[00:03:00] president, Nicolas Maduro, was captured captured by the United States in
[00:03:03] in a daring raid that gave it effective effective control of a country that
[00:03:06] that holds the world's largest proven proven oil reserves, but whose economy
[00:03:10] economy has been struggling for years.
[00:03:12] years. They could be key to interim interim President Delcy Rodriguez
[00:03:15] Rodriguez efforts to turn the country country and its economy around. This
[00:03:18] This graph lays out the scale of
[00:03:20] of decline since the economy peaked
[00:03:23] peaked in 2012. It's now worth just just over a quarter of what it was
[00:03:26] was then, thanks to years of mismanagement, mismanagement, which has led to a
[00:03:29] a surge in poverty and spiralling spiralling inflation. With that decline
[00:03:33] decline has come a desperate mountain
[00:03:35] mountain of debt. It could be as
[00:03:38] as high as $240 billion, according according to one recent calculation,
[00:03:42] calculation, putting Venezuela on on course for the biggest debt restructuring
[00:03:46] restructuring in history, something something the government says is
[00:03:48] is imminent. But it's a government
[00:03:50] government also focused on major
[00:03:53] major rebuilding $37 billion is the the estimated cost for damage to
[00:03:56] to buildings and infrastructure alone alone from June's earthquakes, which
[00:03:59] which claimed thousands of lives. lives. But it's a country that has
[00:04:03] has around 300 billion barrels of of oil sitting in the ground. The
[00:04:07] The biggest proven reserves of any any country in the world, which account
[00:04:10] account for about a fifth of the
[00:04:11] the world's total reserves. However, However, corruption and mismanagement
[00:04:15] mismanagement mean that oil production production is a long way from its
[00:04:19] its 1970s heyday. It has picked up up since the change of president,
[00:04:22] president, which is just as well well because it has the potential
[00:04:25] potential to generate much needed needed cash. And you just have to
[00:04:28] to look at events in the Middle East
[00:04:30] East to see why that could be significant. significant. Before the Iran war
[00:04:33] war effectively closed, the Strait Strait of Hormuz, about 20% of the
[00:04:36] the world's oil and gas came through through the waterway. The threat
[00:04:40] threat to ships means that has been
[00:04:43] been drastically reduced and oil oil prices have ebbed and flowed
[00:04:46] flowed with every development in in the conflict, higher oil prices
[00:04:50] prices mean higher inflation and and higher interest rates around
[00:04:53] around the world and that normally normally slows economic growth. And
[00:04:57] And given the performance of the the US economy is so important to
[00:05:01] to President Trump, it's little surprise surprise he sees oil as important
[00:05:04] important to keeping the world's world's biggest economy ahead of
[00:05:07] of its biggest rival. As he pointed pointed out on a recent visit to
[00:05:11] to a car factory. We have a thousand
[00:05:14] thousand year supply of gasoline.
[00:05:17] gasoline. China doesn't. China doesn't. doesn't. We have a thousand years.
[00:05:20] years. We have more gasoline. We
[00:05:22] We have more oil. Now, when you add
[00:05:24] add Venezuela to it, we really have
[00:05:27] have more oil. One day and Venezuela's
[00:05:31] Venezuela's been great. They've been been doing a great job. We're working
[00:05:33] working with them to make millions millions and millions of barrels
[00:05:37] barrels of oil, but they're doing doing well and we're doing well.
[00:05:39] well. One day. You know, a lot of of people are against that war. We
[00:05:43] We don't want the vintage. Why are are you doing what you did after
[00:05:46] after we won in about 48 minutes,
[00:05:50] minutes, approximately. They said, said, oh, that was a good move. Well, Well, the same thing is happening
[00:05:53] happening in Iran. People just don't don't see it. But getting that oil
[00:05:56] oil out of the ground so it can be
[00:05:59] be sold won't be quick or easy, especially especially for a government that
[00:06:01] that has also tried to tackle the the aftermath of earthquakes that
[00:06:04] that left thousands of people dead
[00:06:06] dead and many more homeless. In parallel
[00:06:11] parallel with the emergency response, response, we continue to make progress progress on an orderly plan for the
[00:06:15] the sovereign debt restructuring. restructuring. In recent weeks, we've
[00:06:18] we've held intensive technical exchanges exchanges with our partners and with
[00:06:21] with international financial institutions. institutions. We're also continuing
[00:06:24] continuing to refine the macroeconomic macroeconomic framework and debt
[00:06:28] debt sustainability analysis to include
[00:06:30] include the economic impact of the the earthquakes. We expect to publish
[00:06:34] publish these documents in the coming coming weeks. So whilst the government
[00:06:38] government of interim President Delcy Delcy Rodriguez gets on with sorting
[00:06:41] sorting out years of financial mess, mess, millions of people are still
[00:06:44] still struggling to get by on a daily daily basis. Venezuela was once a
[00:06:48] a wealthy country thanks to its oil,
[00:06:50] oil, but now one respected study
[00:06:53] study says 68.5% of its 28.5 million
[00:06:56] million people live in poverty. So
[00:06:58] So to find out how it got into such such a mess, I've been speaking to
[00:07:01] to a respected former president of
[00:07:03] of Venezuela's central bank who resigned resigned because politicians tried
[00:07:06] tried to interfere with its independence.
[00:07:09] independence. She now advises companies companies and global financial institutions
[00:07:13] institutions on Venezuela in her her roles with sentences financiera
[00:07:16] financiera and global source partners.
[00:07:19] partners. Ruth Krivoy. Welcome to to Talking Business. Let's start
[00:07:22] start off by talking about what life
[00:07:24] life is like for ordinary Venezuelans Venezuelans because the economy has
[00:07:28] has been under some pressure for
[00:07:29] for some time now. The economy has
[00:07:32] has been under pressure for almost
[00:07:36] almost 30 years where along the line,
[00:07:41] line, institutions were severely
[00:07:42] severely eroded. The rule of law
[00:07:45] law was destroyed. Property was expropriated
[00:07:49] expropriated without compensation. compensation. Fiscal policy dominated
[00:07:53] dominated monetary policy. Inflation
[00:07:55] Inflation started going up and growth
[00:07:58] growth started dropping along the
[00:07:59] the way. Oil production fell from
[00:08:03] from a 3 million barrels a day threshold
[00:08:07] threshold to about 1.2 million barrels
[00:08:08] barrels a day. Along the way, we
[00:08:12] we have had hyperinflation and we
[00:08:14] we are now at a stage of high inflation
[00:08:18] inflation between the 400 and 500%
[00:08:20] 500% per year. And as you can imagine,
[00:08:23] imagine, an economy with no growth,
[00:08:26] growth, no lending, high inflation.
[00:08:29] inflation. And on top of that, the
[00:08:30] the two earthquakes we had on June
[00:08:34] June 24th paints a dire picture.
[00:08:36] picture. So people find it difficult
[00:08:38] difficult to get along in this reality.
[00:08:41] reality. Do you think that this optimism
[00:08:44] optimism that is shared about the
[00:08:46] the country's energy industry, for
[00:08:48] for example, like oil, and is that
[00:08:52] that something that is a realistic realistic solution to the economic
[00:08:54] economic woes that you've just described.
[00:08:56] described. The recovery of the oil
[00:08:59] oil industry is indispensable. But
[00:09:01] But in itself it is not enough because
[00:09:07] because a mono dependent economy
[00:09:09] economy on oil is highly vulnerable
[00:09:12] vulnerable to shocks. Getting the the oil industry off the ground is
[00:09:15] is needed because that's the only only thing we have in the short-term.
[00:09:19] short-term. But Venezuela needs to
[00:09:22] to diversify its economy. Otherwise
[00:09:25] Otherwise we are stuck in a bad place.
[00:09:27] place. The legal framework has been
[00:09:31] been reformed, but the perception perception is that we will have to
[00:09:33] to go through a new reform by the
[00:09:35] the end of next year if we want production
[00:09:38] production to move beyond, beyond
[00:09:41] beyond 1.5 million barrels a day, day, companies are interested in
[00:09:45] in Venezuela. Many Amos. But so far
[00:09:49] far not enough real money coming
[00:09:51] coming in. That means that oil production
[00:09:55] production is slow and non-oil activities
[00:09:57] activities are slow, and the quality
[00:09:59] quality of life is not good. So the
[00:10:02] the government has around $240 billion
[00:10:05] billion worth of debt. Is it ever ever going to be able to repay that
[00:10:08] that back? A short answer is no.
[00:10:10] no. We have to go through a restructuring.
[00:10:15] restructuring. We have been in default
[00:10:17] default since 2017. The amount surprisingly
[00:10:23] surprisingly rose from the 150 to
[00:10:25] to 170 billion range to 242 weeks
[00:10:28] weeks ago, and that is a challenge
[00:10:31] challenge to understand. And we are
[00:10:34] are on the verge of a foreign debt
[00:10:36] debt restructuring process that will will be critical for Venezuela's
[00:10:40] Venezuela's future. And basically
[00:10:42] basically it needs to be and to be
[00:10:45] be perceived as legitimate and fair.
[00:10:48] fair. And the concern is that there
[00:10:52] there is an apparently big desire
[00:10:54] desire to move ahead quickly. But
[00:10:57] But in my view, it's not something something that you can fix quickly
[00:11:00] quickly because you have to negotiate negotiate with a large diversity
[00:11:04] diversity of predators. You have
[00:11:06] have to qualify which debt is legitimate
[00:11:09] legitimate and you need the IMF in in the picture. One more thing to
[00:11:12] to bear in mind is that China and
[00:11:15] and Russia are important creditors,
[00:11:17] creditors, and the debt to them needs
[00:11:21] needs to be restructured as well. well. And in terms of the diversification
[00:11:25] diversification that you alluded alluded to earlier about the economy,
[00:11:29] economy, not just relying on oil
[00:11:31] oil and energy, how is that going going to happen? How are they going
[00:11:34] going to open up other industries?
[00:11:37] industries? It has to be a friendlier
[00:11:40] friendlier framework for non-oil
[00:11:41] non-oil activities. Formal non-oil
[00:11:45] non-oil activities, the formal sector
[00:11:47] sector is overburdened by regulations,
[00:11:50] regulations, taxes, etc and we do
[00:11:52] do have the natural resources, the
[00:11:56] the geographical location, the climate,
[00:11:59] climate, the people. We have smart
[00:12:01] smart and hard working people who
[00:12:03] who need to be trained and educated
[00:12:06] educated for the market. And we have
[00:12:09] have 8 million Venezuelans living
[00:12:10] living abroad who have had the opportunity
[00:12:14] opportunity to live in a challenging
[00:12:18] challenging modern, forward looking
[00:12:20] looking context and are connected connected emotionally to the country
[00:12:23] country and are ready to help. And
[00:12:25] And it also sounds very complicated. complicated. But when you have a
[00:12:29] a development plan and you can identify
[00:12:32] identify the sectors that can lead
[00:12:35] lead to short-term gains, so to say
[00:12:37] say the low hanging fruit, this can
[00:12:40] can be done in a couple of years. years. Ruth Krivoy. Thank you. Thank
[00:12:44] Thank you. So that's the background background to Venezuela's economy.
[00:12:47] economy. And the interim president president has been talking of the
[00:12:51] the need to make the economy less less reliant on oil and a better
[00:12:54] better environment for private businesses businesses to thrive in and deliver
[00:12:57] deliver the growth the country needs. needs. So I've been catching up with
[00:13:00] with the President of Venezuela's
[00:13:01] Venezuela's Chamber of Commerce and
[00:13:05] and Industry, Felipe Capozzolo, welcome welcome to Talking Business. You've
[00:13:08] You've had a new president in the
[00:13:11] the last few months. Has that seen
[00:13:13] seen a shift in the way business business is done in Venezuela? Clearly
[00:13:17] Clearly you've got your issues with with inflation. Historically, there's
[00:13:21] there's been reports of corruption
[00:13:23] corruption and also sort of the way
[00:13:26] way business is done in Venezuela
[00:13:28] Venezuela is reportedly not as straightforward straightforward as it should be.
[00:13:31] be. Have you seen a shift in sentiment sentiment since you've had a new
[00:13:34] new president? Well, as you probably
[00:13:36] probably know, our economy and our
[00:13:40] our performance and productivity
[00:13:41] productivity is limited by some problems
[00:13:46] problems regarding electricity. Our Our economy is very restricted regarding
[00:13:49] regarding the credit capacity. We
[00:13:52] We have a lot of taxes. Maybe we
[00:13:55] we are the country with more taxes
[00:13:57] taxes in the region for operating
[00:14:01] operating businesses. But I have
[00:14:03] have to say that also since January
[00:14:06] January there have been taking place place some changes regarding legal
[00:14:09] legal frame. So we have a new hydrocarbon
[00:14:12] hydrocarbon law. We have a new mining
[00:14:14] mining law. We're working on a socio
[00:14:18] socio economic rights law that maybe
[00:14:21] maybe can give confidence for businesses businesses in, in the next months.
[00:14:25] months. We are trying to send a message
[00:14:29] message to the world saying in Venezuela
[00:14:32] Venezuela things are changing. And
[00:14:35] And Felipe, the country is recovering recovering from those devastating
[00:14:39] devastating earthquakes that we saw
[00:14:40] saw quite recently. How are the private
[00:14:44] private sector getting involved with with the recovery? Because lots of
[00:14:47] of people are still sleeping in tents. tents. Clearly businesses have been
[00:14:50] been impacted as well. What's the the private sector's role in the
[00:14:54] the recovery building back? We cannot
[00:14:56] cannot minimise the effects of the
[00:14:59] the earthquake certainly has been
[00:15:01] been a very tragic moment. Maybe
[00:15:06] Maybe it's a very focused in a specific
[00:15:09] specific region of our country and
[00:15:11] and it will affect in the next month
[00:15:14] month the decisions of investment
[00:15:16] investment and maybe the decision
[00:15:20] decision of that can make our economy
[00:15:21] economy growing. But I also have
[00:15:24] have to say that we are working in
[00:15:29] in a recovering path and in, in the
[00:15:32] the next years, Venezuela will recover
[00:15:35] recover with the strength of the the oil company or the oil sector.
[00:15:39] sector. For sure. We would like to
[00:15:43] to diversify our economy. But nowadays
[00:15:46] nowadays the oil is the main force
[00:15:48] force to make our economy grow. But
[00:15:54] But Venezuelans are pretty aware
[00:15:55] aware that our future is not only
[00:15:58] only built on energy energy industry
[00:16:01] industry but on, on maybe on the
[00:16:03] the capacity of our people to produce produce and create solutions for
[00:16:07] for the future. And Felipe, what's what's the working environment for
[00:16:11] for businesses like and what can can the government do to help that
[00:16:14] that environment along? There's a
[00:16:16] a lot a lot of work to do for sure.
[00:16:19] sure. We are having a good communication.
[00:16:22] communication. So we need new investments. investments. We need more credit.
[00:16:25] credit. You can reach this only with
[00:16:28] with a new investments. We becoming
[00:16:30] becoming an investment friendly country. country. How are you finding taxes
[00:16:33] taxes at the moment? What are your your members telling you? Well a
[00:16:37] a Venezuela have the higher taxes
[00:16:39] taxes in the region. So the taxes
[00:16:43] taxes and the energy environment environment has to push our enterprises,
[00:16:46] enterprises, our businesses to growth
[00:16:49] growth and not maybe not limit our
[00:16:52] our growth that like has been in
[00:16:55] in the recent years. You spoke about
[00:16:57] about diversifying the business offering offering that Venezuela has. Oil
[00:17:01] Oil is clearly a big component of
[00:17:03] of that. But what other sectors has
[00:17:07] has Venezuela got to offer and how how is that going to come about?
[00:17:10] about? Do you think? Yes, that's
[00:17:12] that's a very important question
[00:17:16] question because we have a we have
[00:17:18] have a country, widely open to receive
[00:17:21] receive investments in the agriculture agriculture sector, in the food industry
[00:17:25] industry sector. Venezuela is not
[00:17:27] not only oil, we have plenty of spaces
[00:17:30] spaces and plenty of lands in order
[00:17:33] order to be exploited to grow the
[00:17:36] the business and grow our economy.
[00:17:39] economy. So there's plenty of opportunities
[00:17:42] opportunities to explore here in in Venezuela. And there's a private
[00:17:46] private sector friendly open to receive
[00:17:48] receive this investment to grow and
[00:17:51] and diversify economy and make of
[00:17:53] of the employment, the main tool
[00:17:56] tool to create a new economy made
[00:18:00] made mainly for the people. Nowadays
[00:18:02] Nowadays there's no risk to come
[00:18:04] come to Venezuela and invest. Maybe
[00:18:06] Maybe the main risk would be being
[00:18:09] being late to this investment. Felipe Felipe Capozzolo thank you very much.
[00:18:13] much. Thank you. Coming up after
[00:18:15] after the break, the dollars in drilling drilling the boss of one oil company
[00:18:18] company tells me how he's hoping
[00:18:20] hoping to revive Venezuela's oil
[00:18:23] oil industry.
[00:19:25] he was their friend. Paul's heart-wrenching heart-wrenching stuff that made me
[00:19:27] me feel sick. The big cases. Funeral
[00:19:30] Funeral Home horror watch on BBC
[00:19:33] BBC News. MUSIC
[00:19:42] MUSIC Welcome Welcome back. This is Talking Business
[00:19:44] Business weekly with me Vishala Sri-Pathma.
[00:19:46] Sri-Pathma. This week we're looking looking at Venezuela's economy and
[00:19:49] and how it can get back on track track after years of mismanagement.
[00:19:53] mismanagement. The South American American country is home to the world's
[00:19:56] world's largest oil reserves, but but production is a long way from
[00:19:59] from where it could be. If the black black gold is really going to make
[00:20:02] make the country wealthy again, it's it's going to need help from foreign
[00:20:05] foreign investors. The world's biggest biggest oil companies are sizing
[00:20:08] sizing up how much they want to get get involved, but smaller investors
[00:20:11] investors are more willing to take take on the risks. I've been speaking
[00:20:15] speaking to the founder of one Amos Amos Global Energy, which is aiming
[00:20:18] aiming to invest billions in Venezuela Venezuela and draw on his intimate
[00:20:22] intimate knowledge of the country country from his decades running running the operations of US oil
[00:20:26] oil giant Chevron in Latin America.
[00:20:29] America. Ali Moshiri. Welcome to to Talking Business. Do you think
[00:20:33] think oil really is going to save
[00:20:35] save Venezuela's economy? Definitely, Definitely, yeah. You know, if you
[00:20:39] you look at Venezuela. Venezuela
[00:20:41] Venezuela got the largest resource.
[00:20:44] resource. It's about 300 billion
[00:20:47] billion barrels of light heavy and and extra heavy oil. And if you look
[00:20:50] look at it in the past, the economy
[00:20:54] economy of Venezuela has been driven driven by the oil sector. The GDP
[00:20:58] GDP of Venezuela was close to $400
[00:21:02] $400 billion in 2010, when oil prices prices were somewhere around $80
[00:21:05] $80 and they were producing a little
[00:21:07] little bit over 2.5 million barrels. barrels. Definitely the silver bullet
[00:21:11] bullet for recovery of the economy economy of Venezuela. It comes from
[00:21:14] from the oil sector. It has been been in the past. It's going to be
[00:21:18] be in the future. And I think that's that's going to be the source that
[00:21:22] that can jumpstart the economy. So
[00:21:24] So currently Venezuela produces around
[00:21:27] around 1.2 million barrels a day
[00:21:28] day of oil in its hay. It produced
[00:21:31] produced around 3.7. So clearly there there is some ground to make up there.
[00:21:35] there. How can it get its infrastructure infrastructure up to speed? And also
[00:21:38] also how much is it going to cost?
[00:21:41] cost? There's got to be incremental
[00:21:43] incremental production increase. increase. What we have estimated
[00:21:46] estimated to get the production to to 1.5 million barrels probably you
[00:21:50] you need somewhere between to 3 to to $4 billion trying to increase
[00:21:54] increase the production from one
[00:21:56] one and a half to 2.5 million barrels
[00:21:58] barrels a day. You need significant
[00:22:00] significant amount of investment, investment, close to $50 billion.
[00:22:03] billion. Does the oil sector in 1.5
[00:22:07] 1.5 million barrels production can can generate that kind of revenue
[00:22:11] revenue and capital to be able to to fund to increase the production?
[00:22:14] production? The answer to that is
[00:22:16] is yes. And at Amos you're raising
[00:22:19] raising or spending $2 billion on
[00:22:22] on oil production. Is that enough, enough, do you think? You know, we
[00:22:26] we are one of the players in this
[00:22:29] this whole process. We are hoping hoping others will join. There are
[00:22:32] are a lot of companies right now. now. They are in discussion with
[00:22:35] with the government of Venezuela.
[00:22:37] Venezuela. They are trying to basically
[00:22:39] basically assess returning to Venezuela. Venezuela. One of the things our
[00:22:43] our audience could understand Venezuela
[00:22:45] Venezuela has been absent from the
[00:22:47] the market. There is a learning process
[00:22:50] process for companies about Venezuela. Venezuela. It's a safe country. You
[00:22:54] You can do business. We want to be be the one that kind of showcase
[00:22:58] showcase that this possibility exists exists in Venezuela. Say recent figures
[00:23:01] figures would suggest that lots of of people in Venezuela are living
[00:23:04] living in poverty. And we've just
[00:23:08] just recently had two devastating devastating earthquakes in Venezuela
[00:23:11] Venezuela as well. So clearly the the country and the government are
[00:23:14] are in need of money and money quickly.
[00:23:18] quickly. How long till they see the the benefits of this? Is it just
[00:23:21] just big business or small business business even that will benefit from
[00:23:25] from the oil exploration? You've
[00:23:27] You've got to look at this whole
[00:23:29] whole picture. Venezuela economy
[00:23:33] economy in 2010 was $400 billion.
[00:23:37] billion. GDP in 2025 was only 100.
[00:23:40] 100. OK. Therefore, we are dealing
[00:23:42] dealing with the economic crisis
[00:23:46] crisis pre January 3rd and US administration
[00:23:49] administration is working very hard
[00:23:51] hard trying to be able to help the
[00:23:54] the economy of the country. But you've you've got to be in the transparent
[00:23:57] transparent and organised way. Unfortunate
[00:24:00] Unfortunate event of earthquake is is said delay in this process. But
[00:24:04] But I think with the help of the
[00:24:06] the US government, I think the recovery
[00:24:08] recovery is going to be faster now.
[00:24:10] now. The impact on the average person
[00:24:13] person on the street of Venezuela
[00:24:15] Venezuela today may not have significantly
[00:24:18] significantly changed, but I think think is in the right trajectory
[00:24:21] trajectory to improve significantly. significantly. Given there's a shift
[00:24:24] shift in the wider environment towards
[00:24:26] towards renewables and clean energy,
[00:24:28] energy, is there a little bit of
[00:24:31] of pressure on the Venezuelan oil oil industry to get things running
[00:24:35] running up quickly? Because the sort sort of mood music could change quite
[00:24:38] quite quickly? I think we all recognise
[00:24:42] recognise with the two conflict that
[00:24:44] that happened Russia, Ukraine and
[00:24:46] and now Middle East our dependency
[00:24:48] dependency to the oil and gas is
[00:24:50] is going to stay there for decades.
[00:24:53] decades. Even if you assume that
[00:24:55] that we completely transform into
[00:24:59] into the energy alternative energy, energy, we still need 40 million
[00:25:02] million barrels a day production
[00:25:05] production just for the other activities activities such as manufacturing
[00:25:08] manufacturing of plastic and so forth.
[00:25:10] forth. And Venezuela is on top of
[00:25:13] of the list as a country because
[00:25:15] because they got a multiple class
[00:25:17] class of oil, light oil, heavy oil
[00:25:19] oil and extra heavy oil. And the
[00:25:22] the refineries really lock this combination. combination. And I think Venezuela
[00:25:25] Venezuela would be on the number
[00:25:27] number one country that would provide provide that resource. Ali Moshiri
[00:25:30] Moshiri thank you for joining us us on Talking Business. Well, thank
[00:25:34] thank you very much. That's all for for this week. You can keep up with
[00:25:36] with all the latest on the global global economy on the BBC News website
[00:25:40] website and smartphone app. And don't don't forget you can get in touch
[00:25:43] touch with me on my socials. I'm
[00:25:46] I'm at BBC, SB.
[00:29:25] MUSIC
[00:29:34] AI is dramatically increasing demand for energy in a way that the
[00:29:36] the current systems can't fully cope
[00:29:38] cope up. I want to listen to people
[00:29:42] people without it being transactional, transactional, without asking people
[00:29:44] people for their vote, but listening listening to them. Everything you
[00:29:48] you go through, you can surmount, surmount, you can endure and find
[00:29:52] find a good place for it. When the
[00:29:54] the big names talk, they talk to
[00:29:57] to us. MUSIC
[00:30:13] Live from London. This is BBC
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