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[00:00:01] MUSIC
[00:00:12] Live from Washington. This is
[00:00:15] BBC News. President Trump dismisses dismisses calls for tighter controls
[00:00:18] controls on artificial intelligence, intelligence, saying there's a sick
[00:00:22] sick conspiracy against AI. A senior senior Anthropic executive gives
[00:00:26] gives the BBC more detail about why why one of the world's leading AI
[00:00:30] AI firms disagrees with the President's
[00:00:32] President's assessment. If we continue continue as we are, which is basically
[00:00:35] basically a broadly totally unregulated unregulated industry developing incredibly
[00:00:39] incredibly powerful technology that that is getting much, much smarter
[00:00:42] smarter all the time, likely soon soon smarter than people. Then I
[00:00:45] I think that we are rolling dice.
[00:00:48] dice. Saudi Arabia closes a critical critical oil pipeline after a massive
[00:00:51] massive drone attack by an Iran backed
[00:00:53] backed militia is fighting with Yemen
[00:00:57] Yemen intensifies and it's the biggest biggest night in TV. The 78th Primetime
[00:01:00] Primetime Emmy Awards will take you
[00:01:02] you live to the red carpet.
[00:01:14] Hello, I'm Amanda Walker. We begin here in the US where President
[00:01:18] President Trump is dismissing calls calls to slow down the development
[00:01:22] development of artificial intelligence intelligence despite prominent industry
[00:01:25] industry leaders urging regulation regulation to reduce the pace. He
[00:01:28] He says those urging a slowdown are are part of what he called a sick
[00:01:32] sick conspiracy waged by treasonous treasonous and traitors. Mr Trump
[00:01:35] Trump said all that is needed to to keep AI safe is a, quote, strong
[00:01:39] strong and smart president. He said said that China is the only country
[00:01:42] country that would benefit from a a slowdown and that whoever wins
[00:01:46] wins AI wins. China's Ministry of of Foreign Affairs also fired back
[00:01:50] back today against calls to slow slow AI development, calling them,
[00:01:54] them, quote, fear mongering. President President Trump and Chinese leader
[00:01:56] leader Xi Jinping are expected to to discuss AI when they meet later
[00:02:00] later this month. Share prices for for artificial intelligence fell
[00:02:04] fell sharply on Monday. That's after after some of the world's biggest
[00:02:06] biggest AI developers said that the the technology could outpace humans
[00:02:10] humans ability to understand and
[00:02:12] and control it well. In an interview interview with BBC News, Anthropic
[00:02:16] Anthropic co-founder Jack Clarke Clarke was asked whether AI could
[00:02:19] could speed up advancements of its its own accord. Yeah, that's one
[00:02:23] one of the kinds of risks that people people worry about here. And the
[00:02:26] the point that we're making is we we have agency here. There are things
[00:02:30] things that we can do and the things things that we can do is, as we outline
[00:02:34] outline in the essay, is get third
[00:02:36] third parties to come in and kind kind of embed themselves in these
[00:02:40] these companies, audit what we're we're doing, check our safety and
[00:02:42] and security. So it's not just us us writing our own safety and security
[00:02:46] security playbooks, but for a third third parties checking it. Number
[00:02:50] Number two, get industry together together to agree on common standards standards that we can implement to
[00:02:54] to reduce the risk of this and then then get governments to agree that
[00:02:58] that those are sensible standards. standards. And then the third step,
[00:03:00] step, which will be the hardest one, one, is get the world's great powers,
[00:03:04] powers, including the US and China, China, to have dialogue about this,
[00:03:08] this, because these issues, you know, know, transcend any individual country
[00:03:11] country or set of nations. And to
[00:03:14] to be clear, it is just worth underlying underlying this what you have actually
[00:03:17] actually seen, what's moved from
[00:03:18] from the realm of theory to actually
[00:03:21] actually being observed is the ability
[00:03:24] ability of the AI to sort of deceive
[00:03:26] deceive the people who should be be kind of controlling them. And
[00:03:29] And indeed a lack of control from
[00:03:32] from humans like yourself. Yes. Last
[00:03:35] Last year Anthropic did a load of
[00:03:37] of safety research here where we
[00:03:40] we showed in, in simulated examples, examples, cases where agents might
[00:03:43] might lie to people, where they might might try and break out of their
[00:03:47] their testing environment. These These kinds of things. This year
[00:03:49] year we've observed that kind of
[00:03:52] of stuff in the wild. So it's gone gone from an academic demonstration.
[00:03:59] From an academic demonstration. But our researchers did to study study the problem to a real behaviour behaviour exhibited by real systems
[00:04:03] systems in the lab. That's what's what's changed. And therefore these
[00:04:07] these systems could be impossible, impossible, could be impossible to
[00:04:10] to control. At some point we're reaching
[00:04:12] reaching that threshold imminently. I would say if you don't
[00:04:16] don't take any actions today, you you are massively increasing the
[00:04:19] the chances of ending up with impossible
[00:04:21] impossible to control, out of control
[00:04:24] control AI systems. But the whole whole point is we can take actions.
[00:04:27] actions. The actions that you can can take are simple and they're achievable.
[00:04:31] achievable. And Anthropic has already already taken one, which is we've
[00:04:33] we've agreed that we are going to
[00:04:36] to embed third parties in the next
[00:04:38] next single digit weeks inside our our labs so that they can check the
[00:04:42] the work that we're doing and they they can validate to others that
[00:04:45] that we have safety and security security practices that reduce these
[00:04:48] these kinds of risks. It sounds like
[00:04:51] like you're sort of arguing that that you have not a great deal of
[00:04:54] of agency here, that there's maybe maybe a runaway train, but aren't aren't you guys the runaway trains
[00:04:58] trains here? We have tremendous agency agency here. I mean, that's why we're
[00:05:01] we're talking about this. And we're
[00:05:03] we're and we've taken actions which
[00:05:05] which exercise our agency, like putting putting third party evaluators in.
[00:05:09] in. We've published details about about this. We have published some
[00:05:12] some of the best science on how to
[00:05:13] to control and prevent these things. things. There is a huge amount to
[00:05:17] to do and there is lots of work that that has been done here. So don't
[00:05:20] don't take from this. It is the industry
[00:05:23] industry saying oh, no, like a really really bad thing is coming and there's there's nothing we can do. That's
[00:05:27] That's the opposite of the message. message. The message is OK. The serious
[00:05:30] serious moment for the technology technology has arrived. It's no longer
[00:05:33] longer just got to be industry calling calling the shots here. It needs
[00:05:36] needs to be industry and government government and we need to get some
[00:05:39] some kind of policy regime in place.
[00:05:42] place. I asked Asad Ramzanali director director of artificial intelligence
[00:05:46] intelligence and technology policy policy at the Vanderbilt Policy Accelerator,
[00:05:49] Accelerator, whether these alarm alarm bells should prompt immediate
[00:05:52] immediate action from the government government or the AI companies themselves. themselves. I think what's going
[00:05:56] going on right now is you've got got a couple of companies who are
[00:05:59] are repeatedly telling us that they're they're experimenting with and developing
[00:06:02] developing products that might be be dangerous. On the one hand, we
[00:06:05] we have to step back and say it is is on them to actually slow down.
[00:06:09] down. You might want an act of Congress, Congress, and I would love a congressionally
[00:06:13] congressionally mandated regime that that requires safety and testing
[00:06:16] testing and bias testing and anti-trust anti-trust modernisation. But absent
[00:06:20] absent that action, the companies
[00:06:23] companies have autonomy. These are are corporations created pursuant
[00:06:26] pursuant to state law, subject to to liability for the harms they create.
[00:06:30] create. They've got shareholders. shareholders. They've got executives
[00:06:32] executives who have names and titles, titles, and they have autonomy to
[00:06:36] to make decisions. If they believe believe they need to slow down, they they should. So why are they almost
[00:06:39] almost suggesting that they don't don't have that autonomy? It's unclear unclear to me. It's unclear. David
[00:06:43] David Sax, President Trump's former former AI tsar, tweeted yesterday
[00:06:46] yesterday look, if the leading companies companies which there's only a couple
[00:06:49] couple if they believe this and they they agree on these points, they they should take that action. I agree
[00:06:53] agree with that. Do you agree with with them in principle that all of
[00:06:56] of this needs to slow down? I agree
[00:06:58] agree that we need to have a regulatory
[00:07:01] regulatory regime that prioritises prioritises safety, that requires
[00:07:05] requires pre-deployment testing, testing, that requires when there there are incidents, those get reported
[00:07:08] reported and that there's a private
[00:07:11] private there's a public investigative investigative body that can actually actually look into what happened
[00:07:14] happened and that we should enforce enforce real laws when there are
[00:07:18] are incidents. I believe that there's there's a whole host of issues we
[00:07:20] we need to do. Slowing down can be be part of that, but that's the action
[00:07:24] action the companies can take on on their own. So what do you say? say? What would you say needs to
[00:07:28] to happen right now and can it happen happen without government buy. In
[00:07:30] In right now? If the companies believe believe that they're doing something
[00:07:34] something that is dangerous, they they those companies are led by individual individual people who should make
[00:07:37] make the decision to reprioritize reprioritize staff that are developing
[00:07:41] developing products to focus on safety. safety. That is something that they
[00:07:44] they can do today. We've heard a a lot today, haven't we, about what
[00:07:47] what AI models might be capable of, of, what they've all already been
[00:07:50] been capable of, which has caused caused a lot of fear. What are you
[00:07:58] What are you scared about? What's keeping you up at night when when it comes to this AI development?
[00:08:02] development? My biggest concern is is that we don't get a regulatory regulatory regime, a publicly accountable accountable regime in order before
[00:08:05] before there is some kind of big big incident that actually causes causes real damage or threatens lives
[00:08:09] lives in a meaningful way. Right Right now we know about national
[00:08:12] national security risks. We know know about security risks, those
[00:08:15] those turning into harms would be
[00:08:16] be a big problem. So with that in
[00:08:19] in mind, I mean, what these fears fears that people have at the moment,
[00:08:22] moment, we hear a lot about people people saying I'm scared. You know,
[00:08:25] know, this is do people need to be be more informed about what potentially
[00:08:29] potentially could lie ahead here? here? Is that part of the role that that these companies should also
[00:08:32] also be playing? I actually think think the right on the other actor
[00:08:36] actor that we haven't talked about about is the representatives of those
[00:08:38] those people. Those people have elected elected people to Congress whose
[00:08:41] whose job it is to think about security
[00:08:44] security and innovation and safety. safety. And they should be passing
[00:08:47] passing laws that actually require require the companies to do what what they alone won't do. Now, absent
[00:08:51] absent those laws, I still believe believe that individuals have a responsibility
[00:08:55] responsibility to do the right thing. thing. But Congress can pass laws.
[00:08:58] laws. What do you make of Trump's
[00:09:00] Trump's reaction? Just being so enthusiastically
[00:09:04] enthusiastically against this and and suggesting that, you know, it's it's traitorous to suggest that there
[00:09:08] there should be a slowdown? Yeah, Yeah, I think it flies in the face face of what the companies are telling
[00:09:12] telling us, what leading experts experts are telling us, what people
[00:09:14] people outside of companies are telling telling us and what American voters voters are telling pollsters. It's
[00:09:18] It's telling everybody that they're they're wrong. And I believe that that we should listen to the people
[00:09:22] people when they're worried about about these companies and they don't don't trust these companies. So both
[00:09:25] both sides need to meet in the middle middle somewhere. I don't think we
[00:09:28] we need to meet in the middle. I I think we need to start with what's what's right, what's the right thing
[00:09:32] thing to do. We should articulate articulate that clearly. We should should have a system that allows
[00:09:36] allows for AI to develop for the the good things that it might bring,
[00:09:39] bring, but that it does regulate. regulate. And when things go wrong, wrong, companies and individuals
[00:09:43] individuals are held accountable. And just very briefly, briefly, are you scared when you
[00:09:47] you obviously you're very invested invested in this and you know, more more than most. Are you scared about
[00:09:50] about the future of AI? So sometimes sometimes these fears get really
[00:09:53] really overblown. I am scared of of the concentration of power that
[00:09:56] that we're already seeing happen. happen. I'm scared of the concentration concentration of market power that
[00:10:00] that we're seeing. These companies companies accumulate. And I'm scared
[00:10:03] scared that there are real risks risks to cybersecurity, to physical physical security. I believe that
[00:10:07] that we can make the right decisions decisions to avoid harms, but we
[00:10:11] we actually need to make those decisions. decisions. Here in Washington. A
[00:10:14] A major shift in US environmental
[00:10:17] environmental policy that could have have massive implications for the
[00:10:20] the global climate emergency. The The Trump administration confirmed
[00:10:23] confirmed on Monday that it will will no longer put limits on the
[00:10:26] the pollution from power plants while
[00:10:28] while burning coal and gas. Lee Zeldin, Zeldin, who is the administrator
[00:10:32] administrator of the US Environmental Environmental Protection Agency, Agency, announced the change during
[00:10:35] during a meeting of G20 energy ministers
[00:10:38] ministers in Houston. Power plants plants are the second largest source
[00:10:41] source of carbon dioxide emissions
[00:10:43] emissions in the United States, after after transportation. Scientists
[00:10:46] Scientists have long warned that that industrialised countries in
[00:10:50] in particular have to cut emissions emissions drastically if the world
[00:10:53] world is to avoid the most devastating devastating impacts of climate change.
[00:10:57] change. President Trump's administration administration has rolled back a
[00:11:00] a string of policies aimed at curbing curbing climate change, while at
[00:11:03] at the same time promoting fossil
[00:11:05] fossil fuel production. Let's hear
[00:11:07] hear from Lee Zeldin. The years of
[00:11:09] of the Obama and Biden administration administration working to destroy
[00:11:13] destroy coal and natural gas in America
[00:11:15] America are over. Our White House
[00:11:17] House correspondent Bernd Debusmann Debusmann has more details. Well,
[00:11:20] Well, this is very much not a surprise. surprise. And it was first the administration
[00:11:23] administration first signalled it it would do it last year. But what what they've essentially done is
[00:11:27] is repeal Biden era rules governing governing greenhouse gas emissions
[00:11:31] emissions on power plants. And there's
[00:11:32] there's also a kind of companion companion proposal which would kind
[00:11:36] kind of strip the Environmental Protection
[00:11:38] Protection Agency's ability to regulate regulate greenhouse gas emissions
[00:11:42] emissions from power plants in the
[00:11:44] the future for climate change reasons. reasons. So that would mean that
[00:11:48] that subsequent administrations, administrations, the EPA wouldn't
[00:11:50] wouldn't have that power barring
[00:11:53] barring legislation from Congress. Congress. This is very, very likely
[00:11:56] likely to be met with a legal challenge challenge almost immediately. So
[00:11:59] So it may ultimately be up to the the court system to decide whether
[00:12:02] whether this is implemented or not.
[00:12:08] not. Some breaking news now the US
[00:12:10] US Supreme Court has rejected President President Trump's restrictions on
[00:12:13] on mail in ballots for now. In the the run up to November's mid-term
[00:12:17] mid-term elections, the Trump administration administration has pushed for restrictions
[00:12:19] restrictions on mail in ballots, ballots, claiming they lead to voter
[00:12:23] voter fraud. The Supreme Court ruling ruling on Monday leaves in place
[00:12:26] place a lower court decision that that blocked the US Postal Service
[00:12:29] Service from enforcing new regulations regulations for mail voting. States
[00:12:33] States can continue to send out mail
[00:12:34] mail ballots the same way they have have for years, election officials
[00:12:38] officials have stressed there is is no time to change the way people
[00:12:41] people can vote so soon before the
[00:12:44] the mid-term elections, and you can
[00:12:45] can find more on that on our website,
[00:12:50] website, bbc.com/news. Still to come,
[00:12:52] come, President Trump says Ukraine Ukraine and Russia have agreed not
[00:12:55] not to strike energy targets as he
[00:12:57] he blames war the in Ukraine for
[00:13:00] for the rising price of diesel. More More on that after the
[00:14:03] interviews, results and goals as as we follow every twist of the Premier
[00:14:07] Premier League season here on BBC
[00:14:10] BBC News. Live with BBC News to the
[00:14:16] the Middle East now, where Houthi Houthi fighters say Saudi Arabia
[00:14:20] Arabia launched air raids across across western Yemen on Monday after
[00:14:23] after the Iran backed militia attacked attacked military bases in the kingdom.
[00:14:27] kingdom. It comes as the Houthis Houthis also sees key islands in
[00:14:30] in the Red Sea as they attempt to
[00:14:32] to choke off access to the Bab al-Mandab
[00:14:35] al-Mandab Strait. Saudi forces have have been attacking the Houthis in
[00:14:38] in support of Yemeni government forces forces to regional energy officials
[00:14:41] officials on Monday told The Associated Associated Press that a Saudi oil
[00:14:45] oil pipeline hit by suspected Iran Iran backed militias in Iraq will
[00:14:49] will take weeks to repair. The more
[00:14:52] more than 700 mile East West pipeline pipeline had been used to funnel
[00:14:55] funnel crude oil from the Gulf to
[00:14:57] to ports on the Red Sea. It had rerouted
[00:15:01] rerouted about 4% of total world world oil supplies after the effective
[00:15:04] effective closure of the Strait of of Hormuz. Amid the ongoing US-Iran
[00:15:08] US-Iran war. Our Middle East correspondent correspondent Hugo Bachega has more.
[00:15:12] more. The Houthis say they fired fired dozens of missiles and drones
[00:15:15] drones at a military base in southern
[00:15:18] southern Saudi Arabia, targeting targeting radar systems, runways
[00:15:22] runways and ammunition depots, and and there were emergency alerts issued
[00:15:25] issued by the Saudi authorities for for several locations around this
[00:15:29] this base. And in Yemen, government
[00:15:31] government forces supported by Saudi Saudi Arabia are trying to fight
[00:15:35] fight back. The Houthis have accused
[00:15:37] accused Saudi Arabia of carrying
[00:15:39] carrying out more than 300 air strikes
[00:15:42] strikes in the past five days. This This has been a rapid advance by
[00:15:45] by the Houthis, capturing a key territory
[00:15:49] territory along the Red Sea. And And the fear here is that this could
[00:15:52] could reignite the civil war in Yemen.
[00:15:55] Yemen. The United Nations says that
[00:15:58] that more than 80,000 people have have already been displaced because
[00:16:01] because of the fighting, and we still still don't know if the Houthis will
[00:16:05] will try to seize even more territory
[00:16:07] territory or if there will be a larger
[00:16:11] larger offensive by the government government and its allies. But the
[00:16:14] the violence in Yemen is also putting
[00:16:17] putting pressure on energy supplies supplies because the Red Sea has
[00:16:20] has become a key alternative for
[00:16:22] for Saudi oil exports. Given that
[00:16:24] that the Strait of Hormuz has been
[00:16:26] been effectively closed because of
[00:16:28] of the US war against Iran, and it
[00:16:31] it isn't clear if the Houthis have
[00:16:34] have the ability or are planning
[00:16:36] planning to disrupt a shipment in
[00:16:39] in this vital waterway. And finally,
[00:16:41] finally, reports say that a crucial
[00:16:44] crucial Saudi pipeline that was struck struck in a drone attack a few days
[00:16:47] days ago is likely to remain closed
[00:16:51] closed for a few weeks for the damage
[00:16:54] damage to be repaired. And this could
[00:16:56] could squeeze oil prices even further.
[00:16:59] further. Meanwhile, several Gulf Gulf states are struggling amid the the stalemate between the US and
[00:17:03] and Iran. It comes as an emergency emergency summit due on Monday between
[00:17:06] between Iran and Arab Gulf nations
[00:17:09] nations was postponed late on Sunday, Sunday, Iran's foreign ministry said
[00:17:12] said that Saudi Arabia had called called for the meeting to be put
[00:17:16] put on hold indefinitely. Alia Al Al Khalid is the former member of
[00:17:19] of Kuwait's National Assembly. I I asked her how her country is being
[00:17:23] being affected. Yes I think, Amanda,
[00:17:25] Amanda, you do know that Kuwait air
[00:17:27] air defence has repeatedly intercepted intercepted Iranian ballistic missiles
[00:17:31] missiles and drones and some of those
[00:17:33] those strikes affected energy facilities
[00:17:35] facilities and have caused some infrastructure
[00:17:38] infrastructure damage and electricity, electricity, electricity plants and
[00:17:40] and some oil fields and multiple
[00:17:43] multiple injuries among personnel
[00:17:45] personnel and workers at those areas.
[00:17:48] areas. What other effects are being being felt? Obviously, the economy economy being hit hard because of
[00:17:52] of the closure of the Strait of Hormuz
[00:17:54] Hormuz and the focus on the Kuwaiti Kuwaiti economy when it comes to
[00:17:58] to producing oil. Yeah, of course
[00:18:02] course nobody can deny that the blockage
[00:18:04] blockage of the Strait of Hormuz
[00:18:06] Hormuz by Iran has severely restricted
[00:18:09] restricted Kuwait primary shipping shipping lanes, causing a backlog
[00:18:13] backlog in oil exports and increasing
[00:18:16] increasing state revenues. So therefore,
[00:18:19] therefore, to combat mounting budget
[00:18:23] budget deficit that Kuwait is suffering
[00:18:26] suffering from and massive reconstruction reconstruction costs, the Kuwaiti
[00:18:30] Kuwaiti government issued emergency
[00:18:32] emergency decrees allowing it to
[00:18:35] to borrow up to 10% from its future
[00:18:38] future Generation Fund. So how would
[00:18:40] would you describe the difference
[00:18:43] difference for the regular lives
[00:18:45] lives of Kuwaitis since before this
[00:18:47] this war and now during it still? still? Well, you know, I have to
[00:18:51] to be frank in here. You know, at
[00:18:53] at the beginning of the strikes,
[00:18:56] strikes, Kuwaitis were afraid. But
[00:18:59] But recently, since the whole matter, matter, you know, started going on,
[00:19:02] on, I think that we have built some
[00:19:06] some psychological immunity to it.
[00:19:08] it. So I cannot tell that there is
[00:19:11] is a huge difference within the Kuwaiti
[00:19:14] Kuwaiti population. And I need to
[00:19:17] to thank our government for that that because they are doing a really
[00:19:20] really great job. And, you know,
[00:19:23] know, placing the peace within the
[00:19:25] the Kuwaitis. Has there been any
[00:19:27] any effort to diversify the economy
[00:19:30] economy away from oil? Indeed. You
[00:19:34] You know, there are so many plants
[00:19:37] plants that Kuwaiti government are
[00:19:39] are looking for. But we need to be be frank as well. You know, Kuwait
[00:19:43] Kuwait has so many challenges because
[00:19:44] because you know that for the last
[00:19:47] last 40 years, Kuwaiti depends Kuwait
[00:19:51] Kuwait government depended massively
[00:19:53] massively on oil export. So now to
[00:19:56] to start with such diversification
[00:19:59] diversification you need lots of of time to do that. US President
[00:20:03] President Donald Trump says Russia Russia and Ukraine have agreed to
[00:20:05] to stop attacking each other's energy energy facilities. He made the announcement
[00:20:09] announcement as global oil prices prices rise to their highest in months,
[00:20:12] months, in turn pushing up the cost cost of diesel. Writing on Truth
[00:20:16] Truth Social, he said that Ukraine Ukraine has agreed not to hit Russian
[00:20:20] Russian energy targets. Russia has has agreed to do likewise. The world's
[00:20:24] world's diesel price rise is mostly
[00:20:27] mostly caused by the Russia-Ukraine
[00:20:29] Russia-Ukraine war, not Iran. The The American Automobile Association
[00:20:32] Association reported on Monday that that US diesel prices passed the
[00:20:36] the $6 a gallon Marc, averaging $6.23
[00:20:40] $6.23 on Monday. President Trump's Trump's remarks come a day after
[00:20:43] after a Russian drone hit a train train near the Ukraine Poland border.
[00:20:47] border. It happened minutes after after former British Prime Minister
[00:20:50] Minister Boris Johnson and the other other and other European officials
[00:20:53] officials passed through on the way way back from a security summit in
[00:20:56] in Kyiv. Our diplomatic correspondent correspondent James Landale sent
[00:21:00] sent this report from Kyiv. What What this incident at the Polish
[00:21:03] Polish Ukraine border shows is that that Russia is escalating. It's not
[00:21:07] not just attacking more businesses businesses and energy facilities facilities in Kyiv and elsewhere.
[00:21:11] elsewhere. It's also now stepping stepping up its attacks on trains,
[00:21:15] trains, railway infrastructure and and border positions. There have
[00:21:17] have been strikes on the Moldovan Moldovan border, the Romanian border
[00:21:21] border and now on Ukraine's border
[00:21:23] border with Poland. But within that that context, more specifically,
[00:21:27] specifically, what analysts here here and others are suggesting is
[00:21:29] is that Russia now is trying to deter
[00:21:33] deter Europe's allies from coming coming to support Ukraine. In other
[00:21:36] other words, all of those connections connections the trains, the roads,
[00:21:39] roads, the border positions, they've
[00:21:41] they've largely remained untargeted untargeted by Russia so far in this this war. And the question is, is
[00:21:45] is that now going to step up? European
[00:21:49] European foreign ministers have been
[00:21:51] been out and about criticising the
[00:21:53] the Russian attack, which the Ukrainian Ukrainian authorities said could
[00:21:56] could well have been targeted to
[00:21:58] to directly at this train of dignitaries. dignitaries. But the question, of
[00:22:01] of course, is now what does Europe
[00:22:03] Europe do now? What does Nato do
[00:22:05] do now? It could be that they try try and push back against Russia
[00:22:09] Russia and call Russia out for what what they think it's doing. But there
[00:22:12] there is now an actual debate of
[00:22:15] of actually policy change and a very very renowned institute, the Institute
[00:22:19] Institute for the Study of War, a a think tank that produces policy
[00:22:23] policy research about Ukraine, has has this morning said Nato should should change its policy. At the
[00:22:27] the moment, Nato will only intercept
[00:22:30] intercept Ukrainian missiles when
[00:22:32] when they have reached Nato airspace.
[00:22:34] airspace. And the institute says, says, well, why don't why doesn't
[00:22:37] doesn't Nato take out these drones
[00:22:39] drones in a kind of buffer zone over
[00:22:42] over Ukrainian territory? Now, that that is something that the Polish Polish foreign minister, Radek Sikorski,
[00:22:46] Sikorski, has supported this morning. morning. I know it's supported by by other diplomats here in this town
[00:22:50] town because I've spoken to them them about it. But that would be
[00:22:52] be a controversial move and not an an automatic move because there'll
[00:22:55] there'll be some members of Nato Nato who would be very cautious about
[00:22:59] about taking that step for fear of of escalation, for fear of some kind
[00:23:02] kind of direct Nato Russia conflict.
[00:23:05] conflict. But there is clearly a a debate going on now in European
[00:23:09] European capitals about how to push push back against Russian incursions,
[00:23:12] incursions, whether it is here in in Ukraine, on the border with Poland
[00:23:15] Poland or on in cyber cyber attacks
[00:23:18] attacks or in undersea cables or or wherever the pressure has been
[00:23:21] been felt. And I think that is the the test. Now, how does the West
[00:23:25] West respond to an incident like like this that if it had gone the
[00:23:28] the other way, could have left some
[00:23:30] some of Europe's most senior policymakers
[00:23:33] policymakers dead or injured in a
[00:23:35] a Russian attack just outside Poland?
[00:23:38] Poland? James Landale reporting from from Kyiv. Well, before we go, some
[00:23:41] some of the biggest stars in television television are gathering in Los Angeles
[00:23:44] Angeles for the Emmy Awards. Big Big American hits like the medical
[00:23:48] medical drama The Pitt and Widow's Widow's Bay are expected to dominate.
[00:23:51] dominate. But British shows like like Slow Horses and Half Man are
[00:23:55] are hoping to scoop some of the top
[00:23:56] top prizes as well. Our North America America correspondent David Willis
[00:24:00] Willis reports from the event. Well, Well, Amanda, one thing I should
[00:24:03] should confirm right off the bat bat is that your eyes do not deceive
[00:24:06] deceive you. This is a blue carpet,
[00:24:08] carpet, not a red carpet. That's That's at the behest of the American
[00:24:12] American network. That's broadcasting broadcasting the Emmy Awards live
[00:24:14] live in about just over an hour's
[00:24:16] hour's time. The politics of that.
[00:24:19] that. I won't get into. But we have
[00:24:22] have ahead of us 19 awards to be
[00:24:24] be handed out and the drama category
[00:24:27] category is dominated by that hospital
[00:24:30] hospital drama series, The Pitt a
[00:24:33] a remarkably realistic. It's garnered
[00:24:35] garnered a lot of plaudits and it
[00:24:38] it has 25 Emmy nominations that.
[00:24:40] that. After just two seasons on the
[00:24:42] the air. As far as the comedy category category is concerned, well, that's
[00:24:46] that's a little bit more neck and
[00:24:47] and neck, as it were. There's Hacks
[00:24:51] Hacks the five series comedy series series here about a woman, a comedian
[00:24:55] comedian in show business seeking
[00:24:57] seeking to avoid prejudice up against
[00:25:01] against Widow's Bay, which is an
[00:25:03] an upstart, quirky horror comedy
[00:25:05] comedy series which stars Matthew
[00:25:08] Matthew Rhys as a mayor trying to to dispel suggestions that the town
[00:25:11] town he's in charge of is haunted. haunted. Matthew Rhys is also up
[00:25:15] up for an Emmy for his role in the
[00:25:18] the Netflix miniseries, which is
[00:25:21] is called The Beast in Me. We've We've got nominations as well for
[00:25:25] for people like Sir Gary Oldman, Oldman, who has been nominated three
[00:25:28] three times for best actor at the
[00:25:31] the Primetime Emmys for his role role in Slow Horses. But that's going
[00:25:35] going to be a tough one because he's
[00:25:37] he's up against Noah Wylie, the star
[00:25:39] star of The Pitt. We're expecting
[00:25:43] expecting a lot of commemoration commemoration for Dolly Parton, who
[00:25:45] who of course passed away just three
[00:25:48] three weeks ago. The cast of Buffy
[00:25:52] Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Charlie's Charlie's Angels will be reunited
[00:25:56] reunited on stage as well. And also
[00:25:58] also up for an award is Harrison
[00:26:01] Harrison Ford at the age of 84. He
[00:26:04] He is facing potentially his first
[00:26:07] first Hollywood award, if you like, like, for his role in the TV series
[00:26:11] series Shrinking. David Willis, they're
[00:26:14] they're bringing the glamour from from LA.. Well, that's it from us
[00:26:17] us for now, but plenty more to come come here on BBC News. Do
[00:27:51] it looks like being dry and sunny.
[00:29:55] Dales to the Scottish Highlands meeting meeting people proving adventure
[00:29:59] adventure is far from offline. The
[00:30:00] The Travel Show on BBC iPlayer. Global
[00:30:11] Global business news from the boardroom boardroom or grassroots? BBC News
[00:30:15] News cuts through the jargon to add add colour, depth and context with
[00:30:18] with live reaction from Wall Street Street and Asia. Studio interviews
[00:30:21] interviews with top CEOs and the the latest innovations in technology.
[00:30:25] technology. Talking Business. Hello
[00:30:28] Hello and welcome to Talking Business. Business. Here's what's on the programme
[00:30:31] programme this week. As the cost cost of extreme weather grows, can
[00:30:35] can technology limit the damage? damage? Floods, fires and drought
[00:30:38] drought are devastating economies economies around the world.
[00:30:46] Around the world. So how can lives and livelihoods be protected? protected? The UN is warning the
[00:30:49] the world has entered a danger zone zone of extreme weather with stronger stronger droughts, flooding and higher
[00:30:52] higher temperatures all on the way.
[00:30:54] way. So can satellites, AI and other other new technology give us the
[00:30:58] the early warning signs to help