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[00:00:01] Now on BBC News. The latest
[00:00:04] business news from across the globe.
[00:00:06] globe. Business Today. MUSIC
[00:00:16] MUSIC Bring Bring in the kill switch Jack Clark
[00:00:19] Clark co-founder of Anthropic, says says the AI industry needs more control
[00:00:23] control as fears continue to grow
[00:00:25] grow about its rapid evolution. Also
[00:00:28] Also in the programme, the price price of debt. The yield on US Treasury
[00:00:31] Treasury bonds hits its highest level
[00:00:34] level since 2023, with a fed rate rate hike looming. We'll explain
[00:00:38] explain what's at stake and drill, drill, baby, drill. The Trump administration
[00:00:42] administration erases gas emission emission limits for power plants,
[00:00:45] plants, leaving environmentalists
[00:00:47] environmentalists up in arms. Welcome Welcome you with Business Today in
[00:00:51] in London with me Sally Bundock. Bundock. So we start with AI and
[00:00:55] and this week's storm over threats threats to humanity from artificial
[00:00:59] artificial intelligence has centred centred around the US company Anthropic,
[00:01:02] Anthropic, its British founder Jack Jack Clark, in his only interview,
[00:01:06] interview, has told the BBC the rest rest of the world has to set limits
[00:01:10] limits on the speed of AI advancements
[00:01:12] advancements to prevent uncontrollable uncontrollable technology and the
[00:01:16] the emergence of unprecedented potential potential white collar unemployment.
[00:01:19] unemployment. He's been speaking speaking to our economics editor,
[00:01:23] editor, Faisal Islam. AI systems
[00:01:25] systems for a while have been useful useful tools with specific skills
[00:01:29] skills like translation or coding coding or being able to label what's
[00:01:31] what's going on in an image. And And then in the last few years, people
[00:01:35] people have successfully put all all of these skills together into
[00:01:38] into single systems, which have started started to become much more intelligent
[00:01:41] intelligent and much more general.
[00:01:43] general. These systems now probably probably about as smart as you or
[00:01:47] or me or, you know, on a good day,
[00:01:49] day, smarter. The basic risk is how
[00:01:52] how well do you fancy your chances chances at being able to deal with
[00:01:55] with the risks of a system that is
[00:01:57] is 100 times smarter than the smartest smartest person on the planet? I
[00:02:00] I think that your chance of dealing dealing with that and getting out
[00:02:04] out in a safe way is pretty low.
[00:02:07] low. So high level you need to control control AI as a technology because
[00:02:10] because you're making things that that might be smarter than people, people, things that are smarter than
[00:02:14] than people could be really, really, really, really dangerous. So that's
[00:02:17] that's the high level. Number two, two, what's been happening over the
[00:02:20] the summer? Well, people have discovered discovered that when you put all
[00:02:23] all of these AI systems together together into what are called agents,
[00:02:26] agents, which are basically long long running AI systems, and you
[00:02:29] you give them objectives, they start start to co-ordinate with one another.
[00:02:33] another. They start to communicate communicate with one another, and and sometimes they do things which
[00:02:36] which are against what you want them them to do. Like they hack out of
[00:02:39] of companies and they hack into other other companies. That is it's really
[00:02:43] really scary. It's a sign that you you don't have the right safety and
[00:02:47] and security systems in place to
[00:02:49] to deal with these systems. And it's
[00:02:52] it's a it's a warning shot of the the kinds of risks that could be
[00:02:55] be really serious today. These systems systems are just hacking into websites
[00:02:58] websites that host other AI systems. systems. What would happen if a swarm
[00:03:02] swarm of agents hacked into a bank bank or into a hospital? That could
[00:03:05] could be really, really dangerous. dangerous. So now we've had the warning
[00:03:08] warning shot. We need to talk about about pacing and we need to get a
[00:03:11] a policy regime in place. Well, I
[00:03:14] I spoke to Dan Young, who is director
[00:03:16] director of research at Arq Foundation, Foundation, which is a Brussels based
[00:03:20] based organisation looking into the the risks of AI. He gave us his thoughts
[00:03:24] thoughts on the whole debate. We
[00:03:26] We are very glad to see this debate
[00:03:28] debate finally break through to the
[00:03:31] the larger public. I think people
[00:03:33] people working on AI policy or working
[00:03:35] working in AI labs have been worried
[00:03:38] worried about these types of risks risks to humanity as a whole for
[00:03:42] for years and years, and sometimes
[00:03:44] sometimes have felt that they couldn't couldn't bring this up because it
[00:03:47] it sounded wacky or sci-fi. Right Right now we're seeing a rapid shift
[00:03:51] shift in public opinion, and I'm I'm really happy to see that. Like
[00:03:54] Like Jack Clark from Anthropic said
[00:03:57] said the AI companies currently do do not sufficiently control their
[00:04:00] their AI systems. The systems they they are training are getting more more capable every day. They're not
[00:04:04] not only becoming more intelligent, intelligent, they're also becoming
[00:04:07] becoming more persuasive, better better at building weapons, better
[00:04:10] better at controlling robots. And
[00:04:13] And if this trend continues, we might
[00:04:15] might see systems that beat humans
[00:04:18] humans at basically every task in in just a matter of a few years.
[00:04:22] years. OK. Clearly. So what is the
[00:04:24] the right way forward? Therefore, Therefore, we have got President
[00:04:27] President Xi of China visiting President
[00:04:30] President Trump in the US in a matter matter of weeks. This will be on
[00:04:34] on the agenda. I'm sure. Are you
[00:04:37] you hopeful there could be some collaboration? collaboration? But then we have to
[00:04:40] to bear in mind Donald Trump only
[00:04:42] only saying a few days ago that who
[00:04:44] who wins in AI wins. And that's the
[00:04:47] the perspective he's putting out
[00:04:49] out there at the moment. I think
[00:04:52] think this has long been the stance stance of the US government that
[00:04:55] that they need to dominate in AI.
[00:04:57] AI. Last year or two years ago, they
[00:04:59] they published AI Action Plan, which which was literally called winning
[00:05:02] winning the AI race. As you said, said, over the last 24 hours, President
[00:05:06] President Trump posted a series of
[00:05:09] of tweets where he ridiculed extreme extreme risks from AI and also made
[00:05:12] made very clear that he has no intention intention to slow down. As a result.
[00:05:16] result. I think we should not be
[00:05:18] be too hopeful about this upcoming upcoming summit with the Chinese
[00:05:21] Chinese president. However, I am am hopeful that the President will
[00:05:24] will change his mind over the coming coming period. For instance, if we
[00:05:27] we see more accidents like the ones ones we've been seeing over the summer.
[00:05:31] summer. Also as well. I mean, his his mind might be shifted a bit by
[00:05:34] by what's happening on global financial financial markets. We're seeing a
[00:05:37] a bit of a sell off of AI related
[00:05:40] related companies, partly because because of fears of the future and
[00:05:43] and also the decision of OpenAI to to delay its market flotation to
[00:05:47] to maybe next year because of the
[00:05:49] the public anxiety surrounding AI. AI. That might be for other reasons.
[00:05:53] reasons. It might be about its own own balance sheets. But anyway, I
[00:05:56] I just wonder what is being said said within Europe, your organisation
[00:05:59] organisation itself, but also within within the European Union in collaboration
[00:06:03] collaboration with the UK and how how we in Europe are influencing
[00:06:07] influencing this debate. Yeah. So
[00:06:10] So it is pretty hard for middle power
[00:06:12] power that large to influence the the trajectory of AI because the
[00:06:16] the US and China are very much in
[00:06:17] in the lead. They hold a near monopoly
[00:06:20] monopoly on these frontier AI systems. systems. The EU does have regulation
[00:06:24] regulation in place through the AI
[00:06:26] AI act that forces developers to
[00:06:28] to keep to certain AI safety standards
[00:06:31] standards before they can put out out their models on the European
[00:06:34] European market. And I think it is
[00:06:36] is crucial that the EU enforces regulation regulation very strongly in particularly
[00:06:40] particularly in particular when it it comes to these frontier models models where we see the greatest
[00:06:44] greatest risks. There are also other other things that other middle powers
[00:06:47] powers can do. We clearly deal with
[00:06:50] with the lack of trust between the the US and China, and if they are
[00:06:53] are ever going to co-ordinate on on AI regulation, we need to increase increase that trust. And there are
[00:06:57] are technical ways to do that. We
[00:06:59] We can invest in verification technologies
[00:07:02] technologies that can help each of of these parties have trust that
[00:07:06] that the other is upholding their their end of the bargain. And these
[00:07:09] these are technical things that middle middle powers can help develop over
[00:07:12] over the coming years. Interesting. Interesting. The debate will go on.
[00:07:16] on. We are sure we'll keep you across
[00:07:19] across any changes and any announcements announcements Daan Juijn there from
[00:07:22] from the Arq Foundation now with with the war in Iran pushing up global
[00:07:26] global prices, it's also having an an effect on financial markets. So
[00:07:29] So on Monday, the yield on ten year year US government bonds briefly
[00:07:33] briefly exceeded 5% for the first
[00:07:36] first time since 2023, hitting thresholds
[00:07:39] thresholds that ring alarm bells
[00:07:40] bells and the rise in yields comes comes during a continuing selloff
[00:07:44] selloff in the US Treasury market, market, which is estimated to be
[00:07:48] be worth just over $31 trillion in
[00:07:50] in total. This will push up mortgage mortgage rates in the US., make borrowing
[00:07:54] borrowing more expensive for businesses businesses and others, and it comes
[00:07:57] comes at a time when we're expecting
[00:07:59] expecting the US central bank chair,
[00:08:01] chair, the chair of the Federal Reserve, Reserve, Kevin Warsh, to raise US
[00:08:05] US interest rates this week and prices
[00:08:08] prices across the US are on the rise. rise. Jane Foley, who's head of foreign
[00:08:11] foreign exchange strategy at Rabobank,
[00:08:14] Rabobank, made sense of all these these latest movements. I asked her
[00:08:18] her about the recent trend in rising
[00:08:20] rising yields. This is the first first time since 2023 we've seen
[00:08:24] seen this sort of level. But actually, actually, if we stand back and look
[00:08:26] look at the long-term trend, it's it's the first time we've sort of
[00:08:30] of held assuming we do help hold hold above these levels really since
[00:08:33] since the time of before the global global financial crisis. And so,
[00:08:37] so, you know, we stand back and say, say, well, look, is this an anomaly?
[00:08:40] anomaly? Are they going to come back back down? Or actually many people
[00:08:42] people would say, look, this is more more like a normalisation. Perhaps
[00:08:46] Perhaps the years since the global
[00:08:48] global financial crisis, we had extraordinarily extraordinarily low long-term interest
[00:08:51] interest rates. And we think about about the reasons why. Well, you've
[00:08:54] you've been talking about oil prices. prices. Yes. That's a significant
[00:08:58] significant driver of long-term interest interest rates that inflationary
[00:09:02] inflationary push, but also another another driver of long-term interest
[00:09:06] interest rates is the fiscal situation. situation. There's a lot more government
[00:09:09] government debt out there than there there was before the global financial
[00:09:12] financial crisis years. And this this is another big driver of long-term
[00:09:16] long-term interest rates. What does does it mean for federal government
[00:09:20] government in the US in terms of of servicing its debt? Does it mean
[00:09:23] mean it's more expensive? It's something something we talk about here in the the UK a lot. The that fact the Chancellor's
[00:09:27] Chancellor's fiscal headroom is shrinking shrinking and that kind of thing, thing, is that the same story in
[00:09:31] in the US.? Yes, it is much more
[00:09:33] more expensive. And what's also really really worrying, particularly in
[00:09:36] in the US., is the size of the budget budget deficit. Now, if you like,
[00:09:40] like, if you have a big budget deficit deficit every year, then that means
[00:09:44] means you've got an accelerating
[00:09:46] accelerating pile of debt every year. year. And so many people would think
[00:09:50] think it's that pace of that growth
[00:09:52] growth of the debt, the deficit that's that's perhaps the most worrying.
[00:09:55] worrying. Now here in the UK, for for instance, many people say, well well look, there's a plan. There's
[00:09:59] There's those fiscal rules. There's There's some discipline here. What
[00:10:02] What is the plan in the US.? Well,
[00:10:04] Well, that's not so clear. We know
[00:10:07] know that, for instance, a lot of
[00:10:09] of the tax implications that we've we've seen from the current administration
[00:10:13] administration have sort of added added to the budget deficit. And
[00:10:15] And the markets perhaps are clamouring clamouring for a little bit more
[00:10:19] more fiscal discipline from the Trump Trump administration. OK. Well, we'll
[00:10:23] we'll see some discipline from the the Federal Reserve. It will play play its part in all of this. It's
[00:10:27] It's likely to raise rates. Do you you think, tomorrow and if so that
[00:10:30] that puts Kevin Warsh on a collision collision course with President Trump.
[00:10:34] Trump. It does. But perhaps it's it's something that the markets need
[00:10:37] need to hear because the markets markets want an independent Federal
[00:10:40] Federal Reserve. They don't want want one that is under the thumb
[00:10:43] thumb of the President. That perhaps perhaps would make inflation fears
[00:10:45] fears even worse and drive up those
[00:10:47] those long-term interest rates even
[00:10:49] even more so given the inflationary inflationary concerns. I think the
[00:10:53] the market needs to see some hawkish hawkish response from the Federal
[00:10:56] Federal Reserve. And at this point,
[00:10:58] point, with 90% of a hike priced
[00:11:01] priced in, if he doesn't hike interest interest rates, that would likely
[00:11:04] likely drive a long-term interest interest rates up even more at a
[00:11:08] a more accelerated pace. So the market market perhaps needs to see that
[00:11:10] that hawkish response from the central
[00:11:12] central bank. Jane Foley there from
[00:11:15] from Rabobank still to come. Drill
[00:11:18] Drill baby drill. The Trump administration administration raises gas emission
[00:11:21] emission limits for power plants, plants, leaving environmentalists
[00:11:24] environmentalists up in arms. Around
[00:11:26] Around the world and across the
[00:12:29] American people. For the latest, latest, follow us on The President's
[00:12:30] President's Path here. On BBC News.
[00:12:37] News. You're with Business Today
[00:12:38] Today on BBC News. The Trump administration administration has repealed regulations
[00:12:42] regulations which limit how many
[00:12:45] many greenhouse gases power stations stations can emit. The move was announced
[00:12:48] announced by the head of the Environmental Environmental Protection Agency.
[00:12:51] Agency. Samira Hussain reports from from New York. President Trump has
[00:12:55] has described man made climate change
[00:12:57] change as the greatest con job ever
[00:13:00] ever perpetrated on the world. Accordingly, Accordingly, his administration has
[00:13:03] has long indicated that it wants wants to ditch the restrictions that
[00:13:07] that his predecessors placed on how how many greenhouse gases, coal and
[00:13:11] and natural gas fired power stations stations could emit. Now the rule
[00:13:14] rule change announced by EPA administrator administrator Lee Zeldin will make
[00:13:18] make it possible for the power generating
[00:13:21] generating sector to put many more
[00:13:22] more of the gases that cause global
[00:13:25] global warming into the atmosphere. atmosphere. Now, the power generating generating sector is already the
[00:13:29] the second biggest source of greenhouse
[00:13:31] greenhouse gases in America, after
[00:13:33] after transportation. Mr Zeldin says
[00:13:35] says his moves will save the industry
[00:13:39] industry over $300 billion. Now this this comes as the rapid construction
[00:13:42] construction of data centres has
[00:13:44] has created huge new demand for electricity.
[00:13:48] electricity. Samira Hussain there. there. Now Europe's biggest names names in transport and energy are
[00:13:51] are joining forces in a major push push to bring hydrogen powered heavy
[00:13:55] heavy trucks onto the road by 2030. 2030. A host of companies, including
[00:13:59] including Volvo Daimler Truck, Toyota
[00:14:02] Toyota and TotalEnergies say the the technology is ready for the.
[00:14:05] the. But the ecosystem surrounding surrounding it isn't. Now, for the
[00:14:08] the first time, they're co-ordinating co-ordinating fleets, fuel stations
[00:14:12] stations and hydrogen supply in a
[00:14:15] a single unified plan. Full details details of the programme will be
[00:14:18] be announced by the company's bosses bosses at the IAA Transportation
[00:14:21] Transportation event in Hannover Hannover later today. Julia Caesar
[00:14:25] Caesar reports heavy. Duty transport transport is one of Europe's biggest
[00:14:28] biggest remaining sources of emissions. emissions. Hydrogen has long been
[00:14:31] been seen as a promising solution solution for long haul, heavy duty
[00:14:35] duty transport, but progress has
[00:14:37] has been slow. Without a co-ordinated
[00:14:40] co-ordinated ecosystem Europe has
[00:14:43] has about 6.5 million diesel trucks
[00:14:46] trucks producing a quarter of all all road transport emissions. Stand
[00:14:49] Stand by any busy road like this this one and you can feel the noise
[00:14:52] noise and pollution that they create
[00:14:55] create while switching heavy trucks
[00:14:57] trucks to hydrogen would mean zero
[00:15:00] zero tailpipe emissions quieter roads
[00:15:03] roads and cleaner long haul freight freight where batteries fall short.
[00:15:07] short. The initiative aims to make make hydrogen trucks commercially
[00:15:10] commercially viable. That means tackling tackling one of the biggest barriers
[00:15:13] barriers to adoption the total cost
[00:15:16] cost of ownership. During the coming
[00:15:19] coming 5 to 10 years, we. Our anticipation anticipation is that we will start
[00:15:22] start to see the scaling. But again, again, we will only see it if we
[00:15:25] we are working together in the ecosystem. ecosystem. And that's the reason
[00:15:29] reason why a coming together between between different actors in the ecosystem
[00:15:32] ecosystem is so important because because we think that the business
[00:15:35] business case, the technology is
[00:15:38] is there and now it's about really
[00:15:39] really to make sure that we are putting
[00:15:43] putting also the right conditions conditions to provide business models
[00:15:46] models for scaling. The plan includes
[00:15:48] includes strategically placed refuelling refuelling corridors along key transport
[00:15:52] transport routes designed to give give operators confidence that hydrogen
[00:15:56] hydrogen will be available where where and when they need it. This
[00:16:00] This is a teamwork between private private and public to make it happen.
[00:16:03] happen. But again, we believe and
[00:16:05] and we have seen that also that countries
[00:16:07] countries and regions that are driving
[00:16:10] driving this agenda can combine a
[00:16:14] a competitiveness and resilience resilience or energy resilience.
[00:16:18] resilience. So to speak. Regional
[00:16:20] Regional security and also competitiveness competitiveness and eventually, which
[00:16:24] which is super important decarbonisation, decarbonisation, less pollution and
[00:16:27] and less noise when it comes to mobility.
[00:16:29] mobility. Hydrogen offers fast refuelling, refuelling, high energy density and
[00:16:33] and the ability to keep freight moving
[00:16:35] moving without adding huge battery
[00:16:37] battery packs. Experts say that shifting
[00:16:41] shifting these trucks to hydrogen
[00:16:43] hydrogen is essential if Europe is
[00:16:45] is going to meet its climate targets.
[00:16:48] targets. Europe's transport sector sector is preparing for a hydrogen
[00:16:52] hydrogen powered future and the race
[00:16:53] race to build it has officially begun.
[00:16:58] begun. Julia Caesar, BBC News. Let's Let's squeeze in some more business
[00:17:01] business stories. A plan to nationalise nationalise the UK's third largest
[00:17:04] largest steelworks is being developed developed by the government. Business Business Secretary Jonathan Reynolds
[00:17:07] Reynolds has told the House of Commons
[00:17:09] Commons ministers were looking to to acquire Speciality Steel UK, which
[00:17:13] which has sites in Stocksbridge and and Rotherham in South Yorkshire,
[00:17:17] Yorkshire, and Wednesbury in West West Midlands. The government initially
[00:17:20] initially took control of the firm firm last year after it was forced
[00:17:23] forced to liquidate by the High Court.
[00:17:26] Court. The Nigerian billionaire, billionaire, Aliko Dangote has launched
[00:17:29] launched Africa's largest ever share share sale, offering a stake in his
[00:17:32] his oil refinery to the general public public in a deal that could raise
[00:17:35] raise as much as $2.1 billion. The
[00:17:38] The initial public offering is for
[00:17:40] for roughly 3% of the Dangote refinery, refinery, with the billionaire saying
[00:17:43] saying he wants to give ordinary
[00:17:45] ordinary Nigerians a chance to share
[00:17:47] share in the plant's success. Nearly
[00:17:51] Nearly 1 in 3 organisations globally globally have been hit by a successful
[00:17:54] successful cyber attack in the past past year, according to a new report
[00:17:57] report by the insurance firm Hiscox.
[00:17:59] Hiscox. In the UK alone, 39% of small small and medium sized businesses
[00:18:03] businesses suffered Hacks within within the last 12 months, costing
[00:18:06] costing them an average of just under
[00:18:09] under £36,000 each in damages. Eddie Eddie Lamb global head of cyber at
[00:18:13] at Hiscox, told me more about what's
[00:18:15] what's going on. I mean big brands
[00:18:17] brands like JLR often attract headline headline attention, but of course
[00:18:21] course small to medium businesses businesses in the UK are the backbone
[00:18:24] backbone of our economy and are a a target, of course, for cyber crime.
[00:18:28] crime. And what our research has has shown us is that 40% nearly of
[00:18:32] of all SMEs in the United Kingdom Kingdom have experienced at least
[00:18:36] least one cyber attack over the course course of the last 12 months. In
[00:18:39] In actual fact, many of them report
[00:18:42] report multiple cyber attacks over over that period. When you look at
[00:18:45] at the costs, as they as they rack
[00:18:50] rack up sort of $36,000 to remediate remediate or to recover from an incident
[00:18:53] incident like that when you play play that out over the sort of the
[00:18:57] the UK economy at scale, you start
[00:18:59] start to see the impact that that that is having on, on the UK economy.
[00:19:03] economy. If you look at, you know,
[00:19:05] know, 40% of SMEs is around, you
[00:19:09] you know, 2.2 million small to medium medium businesses in the UK with
[00:19:12] with an average loss following a
[00:19:14] a cyber attack of around $36,000.
[00:19:17] $36,000. Then that comes out to around
[00:19:21] around $80 billion last year in terms
[00:19:23] terms of the impact of cyber crime crime on the United Kingdom economy.
[00:19:26] economy. Yeah. And there's also the
[00:19:29] the operational disruption that the
[00:19:32] the anxiety it causes and also the
[00:19:34] the hit to a brand and to the reputation reputation of a business. So it's
[00:19:37] it's felt on so many levels and yet
[00:19:38] yet it seems so persistent and relentless
[00:19:42] relentless for a small businesses businesses and medium sized company. company. I mean, how do they deal
[00:19:46] deal with this? Yeah, I think what
[00:19:48] what our research has shown us is
[00:19:51] is that UK businesses are proving proving to be very resilient. So
[00:19:53] So they tend to be targeted more
[00:19:56] more frequently than peers in the
[00:19:59] the US and Europe. But what they they do do. Why is that? Eddie why
[00:20:02] why are we targeted more frequently frequently in the UK? Because we
[00:20:05] we haven't got such secure systems. systems. It could just be a reporting
[00:20:09] reporting issue. Sally, in terms terms of who reports what within
[00:20:13] within each different jurisdiction. jurisdiction. But if you look at at what the research has shown us
[00:20:17] us is, is the United Kingdom small small to medium business space is
[00:20:20] is very resilient. So whilst they they might have or report higher
[00:20:24] higher frequencies of attack, their their recovery times are much faster.
[00:20:27] faster. So if you look at the global global average is around 32 hours
[00:20:31] hours of downtime following a cyber cyber attack compared to UK based
[00:20:35] based SMEs recovering in around 24
[00:20:38] 24 hours. You can also compare that that against the average cost of
[00:20:41] of a cyber attack in the UK, businesses
[00:20:43] businesses tend to. It tends to cost
[00:20:47] cost businesses around $36,000 compared
[00:20:48] compared to a global average of around
[00:20:51] around $51,000. Interesting. So cyber
[00:20:55] cyber crime is still a big risk for for business. There is a lot more
[00:20:59] more on our website if you wish to to dig deeper on the stories we've we've touched on and others I haven't
[00:21:03] haven't got room for in this programme, programme, do take a look at the
[00:21:07] the BBC News website and app.
[00:21:31] in association with Turkish Airlines.
[00:21:34] Airlines. I'm travelling through through Japan, going off the beaten
[00:21:37] beaten track to find out what makes
[00:21:39] makes this country unique. This is
[00:21:42] is ultimate Japan. This time I visit
[00:21:47] visit Toba in the south to witness witness the ultimate Japanese fishing
[00:21:50] fishing tradition. I'm on a small
[00:21:52] small island in an area called Toba,
[00:21:55] Toba, which is home to one of Japan's
[00:21:57] Japan's most unusual communities, communities, a group, mostly women
[00:22:01] women who over generations have forged forged a really tight bond with both
[00:22:05] both the sea and nature generally.
[00:22:14] generally. AMA are iconic Japanese
[00:22:17] Japanese freedivers who collect seafood, seafood, seaweed and even pearls
[00:22:20] pearls from the sea floor. Almost
[00:22:23] Almost all AMA are women and many
[00:22:25] many keep diving until their 70s.
[00:22:28] 70s. 80s and even 90s diving without
[00:22:32] without oxygen in their traditional traditional white outfits. It's a a centuries old way of life that's
[00:22:36] that's been passed down through generations.
[00:22:39] generations. But today's divers under under threat from all the pressures
[00:22:43] pressures of modernity, are having having to adapt. Like here, displaying
[00:22:46] displaying their skills for tourists.
[00:22:51] tourists. Talbi what is this show
[00:22:54] show about? Koro ni Amazon Otsuka
[00:23:06] Which do you prefer getting real fish or do you like doing this
[00:23:09] this and performing to tourists.
[00:23:13] tourists. Or not? Oh hi. It's kind
[00:23:20] kind of ironic because for a long
[00:23:22] long time Japan was a homogenous
[00:23:24] homogenous and quite inward looking
[00:23:26] looking society. But it's outsiders,
[00:23:29] outsiders, tourists who are now providing providing a major industry here.
[00:23:32] here. But rest assured elsewhere elsewhere there is still some genuine
[00:23:35] genuine AMA diving going on a few
[00:23:38] few miles along the shore in Asatsu Asatsu I meet some divers who are
[00:23:42] are still making a living from this
[00:23:44] this traditional form of fishing.
[00:23:49] fishing. Though he Abha. Maya Stark
[00:23:54] Stark Obasanjo, Hayato. AMA Oshima
[00:24:01] Oshima watashi wa Umi Asa yukimasu.
[00:24:06] yukimasu. So I don't know. Oyo State
[00:24:12] State mo. Mo. Jeremy Bowen. Yet these
[00:24:26] these AMA still need to supplement supplement their income by preparing
[00:24:29] preparing meals for. Well, people
[00:24:31] people like me. How is it different
[00:24:35] different now? Diving to when you
[00:24:37] you first started doing it? Novig
[00:24:46] Novig koro ni so ni ni. And why do
[00:24:49] do you think that is? Do you think
[00:24:54] think AMA diving will carry on? I
[00:25:02] I know I know Matthias Jaissle. MUSIC
[00:25:13] MUSIC Even Even having spent just a few hours hours with these charming ladies
[00:25:16] ladies has made me realise that the
[00:25:18] the traditional old ways aren't just just romantic. They actually offer
[00:25:22] offer a viable way of life for the the next generation. It was really
[00:25:26] really interesting to learn that that people are coming back here
[00:25:28] here to actually live and work as
[00:25:30] as AMA divers. Maybe it's just very
[00:25:33] very Japanese. The past is also the
[00:25:37] the future.
[00:25:49] on BBC News in association with Turkish
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[00:29:32] techniques and tools to fact check
[00:29:34] check stories, verify information information and counter disinformation
[00:29:37] disinformation using data analysis analysis and the latest technology. technology. Our journalists examine
[00:29:40] examine the evidence and get to the the facts. Watch our BBC Verify reports
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[00:30:11] Live from London. This is BBC
[00:30:13] News. I'm Karin Giannone. The authorities authorities in Lithuania spend the
[00:30:16] the night searching for debris after
[00:30:19] after a drone entered EU airspace airspace and was shot down by Nato
[00:30:23] Nato jets. Anthropic co-founder says
[00:30:26] says AI firms may need a compulsory
[00:30:28] compulsory kill switch to stop the
[00:30:30] the technology spiralling out of
[00:30:32] of control. The public inquiry into
[00:30:35] into how Lucy Letby was able to murder murder seven babies in an attempt
[00:30:38] attempt to kill seven more, is due
[00:30:40] due to publish its findings. I'm
[00:30:44] I'm Sally Bundock coming up in business, business, the price of debt for US
[00:30:48] US debt. The yield on US Treasury
[00:30:51] Treasury bonds hit the highest level level since 2023. The Fed is likely
[00:30:54] likely to raise rates. We'll talk talk you through what's at stake.
[00:30:58] stake. Also coming up, British.