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[00:00:01] On BBC News. The latest
[00:00:04] business news from across the globe.
[00:00:06] globe. Business Today. MUSIC
[00:00:17] MUSIC Bring Bring in the kill switch Jack Clark Clark co, founder of Anthropic, says
[00:00:20] says the AI industry needs more control control as fears continue to grow
[00:00:24] grow about its rapid evolution. Labour Labour market under pressure the
[00:00:28] the number of UK workers on the payroll payroll is falling, especially in
[00:00:32] in retail and hospitality, will bring bring you the latest numbers. Also
[00:00:36] Also in the programme. The price price of debt, the yield on US Treasury
[00:00:39] Treasury bonds hits the highest level
[00:00:42] level since 2023, with a fed rate rate hike looming. We'll explain
[00:00:45] explain what's at stake and counting
[00:00:48] counting the cost of cyber crime. crime. Nearly 1 in 3 businesses globally
[00:00:51] globally have been hit by a successful successful cyber attack in the past
[00:00:55] past year. We look at the financial
[00:00:59] financial impact. Welcome you with
[00:01:02] with Business Today in London with with me Sally Bundock. So we start
[00:01:05] start with AI and this week's storm
[00:01:06] storm over threats to humanity from
[00:01:09] from artificial intelligence has has centred around the US company
[00:01:13] company Anthropic, its British founder founder Jack Clark. In his only interview,
[00:01:16] interview, has told the BBC that that the rest of the world has to
[00:01:19] to set limits on the speed of AI
[00:01:23] AI advancements to prevent uncontrollable uncontrollable technology and the
[00:01:27] the emergence of unprecedented potential potential white collar unemployment.
[00:01:31] unemployment. He was talking to our
[00:01:32] our economics editor, Faisal Islam.
[00:01:35] Islam. AI systems for a while have
[00:01:38] have been useful tools with specific specific skills like translation
[00:01:41] translation or coding or being able able to label what's going on in in an image. And then in the last
[00:01:45] last few years, people have successfully successfully put all of these skills
[00:01:49] skills together into single systems, systems, which have started to become
[00:01:51] become much more intelligent and
[00:01:53] and much more general. These systems systems now probably about as smart
[00:01:57] smart as you or me or, you know, know, on a good day, smarter. The
[00:02:01] The basic risk is how well do you
[00:02:04] you fancy your chances at being able able to deal with the risks of a
[00:02:07] a system that is 100 times smarter smarter than the smartest person
[00:02:10] person on the planet? I think that that your chance of dealing with
[00:02:14] with that and getting out in a safe
[00:02:16] safe way is pretty low. So high level
[00:02:19] level you need to control AI as a a technology because you're making
[00:02:22] making things that might be smarter smarter than people, things that that are smarter than people could
[00:02:25] could be really, really, really dangerous. dangerous. So that's the high level.
[00:02:29] level. Number two, what's been happening happening over the summer? Well, Well, people have discovered that
[00:02:33] that when you put all of these AI AI systems together into what are
[00:02:36] are called agents, which are basically basically long running AI systems,
[00:02:39] systems, and you give them objectives, objectives, they start to co-ordinate
[00:02:43] co-ordinate with one another. They They start to communicate with one
[00:02:45] one another, and sometimes they do do things which are against what
[00:02:48] what you want them to do. Like they they hack out of companies and they
[00:02:51] they hack into other companies. That That is it's really scary. It's a
[00:02:55] a sign that you don't have the right right safety and security systems
[00:02:59] systems in place to deal with these
[00:03:01] these systems. And it's a it's a
[00:03:04] a warning shot of the kinds of risks risks that could be really serious serious today. These systems are
[00:03:07] are just hacking into websites that that host other AI systems. What
[00:03:11] What would happen if a swarm of agents
[00:03:14] agents hacked into a bank or into into a hospital? That could be really,
[00:03:17] really, really dangerous. So now now we've had the warning shot. We We need to talk about pacing and
[00:03:21] and we need to get a policy regime
[00:03:23] regime in place. To get another view.
[00:03:25] view. I spoke to Daan Juijn, who
[00:03:27] who is director of research at a
[00:03:29] a Brussels, Brussels based think
[00:03:31] think tank that specialises in AI. AI. It's called Arq Foundation. He
[00:03:35] He gave me his thoughts on this safety
[00:03:37] safety debate. We are very glad to
[00:03:40] to see this debate finally break
[00:03:42] break through to the larger public. public. I think people working on
[00:03:46] on AI policy or working in AI labs
[00:03:49] labs have been worried about these these types of risks to humanity
[00:03:53] humanity as a whole for years and
[00:03:56] and years, and sometimes have felt felt that they couldn't bring this
[00:03:59] this up because it sounded wacky wacky or sci-fi. Right now, we're
[00:04:03] we're seeing a rapid shift in public public opinion, and I'm really happy
[00:04:06] happy to see that. Like Jack Clark Clark from Anthropic said the AI
[00:04:09] AI companies currently do not sufficiently sufficiently control their AI systems.
[00:04:13] systems. The systems they are training training are getting more capable
[00:04:16] capable every day. They're not only only becoming more intelligent, they're
[00:04:18] they're also becoming more persuasive,
[00:04:21] persuasive, better at building weapons, weapons, better at controlling robots.
[00:04:25] robots. And if this trend continues,
[00:04:27] continues, we might see systems that that beat humans at basically every
[00:04:31] every task in just a matter of a
[00:04:33] a few years. OK. Clearly. So what
[00:04:36] what is the right way forward? Therefore, Therefore, we have got President
[00:04:40] President Xi of China visiting President
[00:04:43] President Trump in the US in a matter matter of weeks. This will be on
[00:04:47] on the agenda. I'm sure. Are you
[00:04:49] you hopeful there could be some collaboration? collaboration? But then we have to
[00:04:52] to bear in mind Donald Trump only
[00:04:55] only saying a few days ago that who
[00:04:57] who wins in AI wins. And that's the
[00:05:00] the perspective he's putting out out there at the moment. I think
[00:05:04] think this has long been the stance stance of the US government that
[00:05:07] that they need to dominate in AI.
[00:05:09] AI. Last year or two years ago, they
[00:05:12] they published AI Action Plan, which which was literally called winning
[00:05:14] winning the AI race. As you said, said, over the last 24 hours, President
[00:05:18] President Trump posted a series of
[00:05:21] of tweets where he ridiculed extreme extreme risks from AI and also made
[00:05:25] made very clear that he has no intention
[00:05:27] intention to slow down as a result. result. I think we should not be
[00:05:31] be too hopeful about this upcoming upcoming summit with the Chinese
[00:05:34] Chinese president. However, I am am hopeful that the President will
[00:05:37] will change his mind over the coming coming period. For instance, if we we see more accidents like the ones
[00:05:41] ones we've been seeing over the summer.
[00:05:43] summer. Also as well. I mean, his his mind might be shifted a bit by
[00:05:47] by what's happening on global financial financial markets. We're seeing a
[00:05:50] a bit of a sell off of AI related
[00:05:53] related companies, partly because because of fears of the future and
[00:05:56] and also the decision of OpenAI to to delay its market flotation to
[00:05:59] to maybe next year because of the
[00:06:01] the public anxiety surrounding AI. AI. That might be for other reasons.
[00:06:05] reasons. It might be about its own own balance sheets. But anyway, I
[00:06:08] I just wonder what is being said said within Europe, your organisation
[00:06:12] organisation itself, but also within within the European Union in collaboration
[00:06:16] collaboration with the UK and how how we in Europe are influencing
[00:06:19] influencing this debate. Yeah. So
[00:06:22] So it is pretty hard for middle powers
[00:06:25] powers at large to influence the the trajectory of AI because the
[00:06:28] the US and China are very much in
[00:06:29] in the lead. They hold a near monopoly
[00:06:32] monopoly on these frontier AI systems. systems. The EU does have regulation
[00:06:36] regulation in place through the AI
[00:06:39] AI act that forces developers to
[00:06:41] to keep to certain AI safety standards standards before they can put out
[00:06:45] out their models on the European European market. And I think it is
[00:06:48] is crucial that the EU enforces regulation regulation very strongly in particularly
[00:06:52] particularly in particular when it it comes to these frontier models models where we see the greatest
[00:06:56] greatest risks. There are also other other things that other middle powers
[00:06:59] powers can do. We clearly deal with
[00:07:02] with the lack of trust between the the US and China, and if they are
[00:07:06] are ever going to co-ordinate on on AI regulation, we need to increase
[00:07:09] increase that trust. And there are are technical ways to do that. We
[00:07:11] We can invest in verification technologies
[00:07:15] technologies that can help each of of these parties have trust that
[00:07:18] that the others upholding their end end of the bargain. And these are
[00:07:21] are technical things that middle middle powers can help develop over
[00:07:24] over the coming years. Don Yun, director
[00:07:28] director of research at Arq Foundation Foundation now here in the UK, we've
[00:07:31] we've just had the latest unemployment unemployment numbers and it shows
[00:07:34] shows the situation is largely unchanged unchanged and remains fairly. It
[00:07:38] It remains to be a fairly tricky tricky jobs environment, especially especially for those who are trying
[00:07:42] trying to find jobs. So if we take take a look first at employment,
[00:07:45] employment, provisional figures show show there's been a slight fall in
[00:07:49] in August compared to the previous
[00:07:51] previous month. That represents around
[00:07:54] around 26,000 fewer employees in
[00:07:56] in the workforce, and the drop has
[00:07:58] has been mainly in the retail and
[00:08:00] and hospitality sectors. The quarterly quarterly rate of unemployment has
[00:08:03] has stayed the same at 4.9%. That's That's in the three months to the
[00:08:07] the end of July. And on top of that,
[00:08:11] that, job vacancies remain at their
[00:08:13] their lowest level outside of the the pandemic. Meanwhile, if we look
[00:08:17] look at wages, annual growth in employees
[00:08:20] employees average regular earnings, earnings, including bonuses, was
[00:08:24] was 3.9% in May to July this year.
[00:08:27] year. That's unchanged from the time time before, and this figure is likely
[00:08:31] likely to be a defining factor in
[00:08:34] in the rise in the state pension pension age next April. And also
[00:08:38] also bear in mind that the Bank of of England is going to be meeting
[00:08:41] meeting this week. It's scrutinising
[00:08:43] scrutinising all this data before
[00:08:45] before they have their meeting on on Thursday. This time tomorrow we'll
[00:08:49] we'll have the latest inflation numbers. numbers. So that will give us a clue
[00:08:53] clue as to whether higher energy
[00:08:55] energy prices caused by the Enron Enron war will have an impact on
[00:08:58] on inflation. But also whether it's
[00:09:00] it's impacting wage growth and underlying underlying inflation. Well, let's
[00:09:04] let's discuss all of this with Maxine Maxine Bligh, who's interim chief
[00:09:08] chief executive at the Recruitment Recruitment and Employment Confederation.
[00:09:12] Confederation. Maxine, looking at at today's figures, what's standing
[00:09:15] standing out to you? Yeah. Morning,
[00:09:18] Morning, Sally. Well, overall it's it's really the continuation of the
[00:09:21] the picture that we've been seeing seeing for a while. It remains just
[00:09:24] just a really challenging market market for job creation and hiring.
[00:09:27] hiring. And I think what stands out out is given that growth was stronger
[00:09:30] stronger than expected for the last last quarter, we might have hoped
[00:09:33] hoped for slightly better in the the employment figures, but as the
[00:09:36] the ONS points out itself, it's high high cost of doing business and high
[00:09:40] high costs of hiring, particularly particularly for small companies companies that are behind some of
[00:09:44] of this continuing caution. But also also as well. Maxine, when you think
[00:09:48] think about it, if you're running
[00:09:50] running a business right now, it's it's so difficult to know what's
[00:09:54] what's ahead. Currently we've got, got, you know, a recently appointed
[00:09:57] appointed Prime Minister. We've got got a new chancellor, we've got a a budget coming up at the end of
[00:10:01] of October. I mean, I can understand understand why businesses are saying
[00:10:04] saying we are just not hiring currently, currently, especially when you think
[00:10:07] think of the wider geopolitics with
[00:10:09] with the Middle East, etc. Yeah, Yeah, exactly that. I mean, our surveys
[00:10:13] surveys show that actually businesses businesses are quite confident in
[00:10:17] in their own business potential and and do see potential to hire in the
[00:10:21] the future. But as you say, there's there's so much caution about the
[00:10:24] the business environment at the moment. moment. And I think that's why there's there's so much riding really. On
[00:10:28] On the outcome of the government's government's decisions at the moment.
[00:10:30] moment. So things like the consultation consultation on guaranteed hours,
[00:10:34] hours, the decisions it makes in
[00:10:35] in the budget, the plan it sets out
[00:10:38] out national minimum and living wage wage discussions. All of these can
[00:10:41] can just help signal to business business that the government is doing
[00:10:45] doing all it can to help unlock some
[00:10:47] some of the potential that's there,
[00:10:49] there, given how unstable the picture
[00:10:52] picture is geopolitically. I just just wonder, you know, we've mentioned
[00:10:55] mentioned the Bank of England is is going to be going through all
[00:10:57] all these figures, as will the Chancellor, Chancellor, John Healey, because
[00:11:01] because there is real concern. I've I've noticed that since the last last set of employment figures we've
[00:11:05] we've had, you know, a leading retail
[00:11:08] retail recruitment not retail sorry, sorry, a recruitment company saying
[00:11:11] saying graduate jobs are down 50% 50% in the past year. We've got the
[00:11:15] the issue of those not in education, education, employment or training.
[00:11:18] training. So so-called NEETs still still sitting at around a million.
[00:11:21] million. And there's various incentives incentives to get people back into
[00:11:24] into the workforce. I just wonder wonder what could be in the budget
[00:11:27] budget to change this. Yeah. Well,
[00:11:29] Well, what we're calling for is the the government to relook at the mixed
[00:11:33] mixed thresholds. So to think about
[00:11:35] about a pathway to reverse. NICs,
[00:11:38] NICs, National Insurance contributions. contributions. That's right. And
[00:11:42] And so to restore a pathway to restore restore the level that it was at,
[00:11:45] at, that was obviously lowered last
[00:11:50] last year and has impacted significantly significantly on business costs and
[00:11:54] and particularly, I think, led to to decisions at the entry level in
[00:11:57] in terms of bringing people into
[00:11:59] into work and, you know, into part
[00:12:02] part time work as well, which I think
[00:12:04] think does impact on NEETs and young young people in particular. There's
[00:12:08] There's also more to do on the growth growth and skills levy to think about
[00:12:12] about reforming that and think about
[00:12:14] about more agility in skills funding, funding, as you say, you know, the
[00:12:18] the environment is very uncertain uncertain at the moment. Labour market
[00:12:21] market flexibility is is critical critical to that and businesses are
[00:12:24] are really looking at, you know,
[00:12:27] know, short-term, where is the opportunity? opportunity? How can they deploy
[00:12:29] deploy people for that opportunity opportunity and be agile around that?
[00:12:33] that? What that looks like over the the longer term. So I think this this is, you know, quite structural
[00:12:37] structural change in the labour market market that the government needs
[00:12:39] needs to respond to in policy terms. terms. Yeah. And it's very challenging
[00:12:43] challenging to do that, especially especially when your fiscal headroom headroom is shrinking by the day.
[00:12:46] day. Maxine Blythe, thank you so so much from Recruitment and Employment
[00:12:50] Employment Confederation. Still to
[00:12:52] to come, the cost of cybercrime nearly nearly 1 in 3 businesses globally
[00:12:56] globally have been hit by a successful successful attack in the past year.
[00:12:59] year. We take a look at the financial
[00:13:02] financial impact around the world world and across the UK.
[00:14:06] truth, trust and fake news on BBC
[00:14:08] BBC News. You're with Business Today
[00:14:16] Today on BBC News. The Iran war is
[00:14:19] is pushing up global prices, as I'm I'm sure you are well aware. It's
[00:14:23] It's also having an impact on financial
[00:14:25] financial markets in the sense of of what it costs governments to borrow
[00:14:28] borrow on Monday. For the US., the
[00:14:31] the ten year government bonds exceeded
[00:14:33] exceeded 5% for the first time since
[00:14:36] since 2023, hitting thresholds that that ring alarm bells. The rise in
[00:14:39] in yields comes during a continuing continuing sell off in the US Treasury
[00:14:43] Treasury market, which is estimated estimated to be worth just over $31
[00:14:46] $31 trillion in total. And it comes comes at a time when we're expecting
[00:14:50] expecting the US central bank Fed
[00:14:52] Fed Chair Kevin Warsh to raise interest
[00:14:54] interest rates this week as prices prices across the US continue to
[00:14:58] to go up, Jane Foley, who's head head of foreign exchange strategy
[00:15:01] strategy at Rabobank, told us more more about these trends. This is
[00:15:05] is the first time since 2023 we've we've seen this sort of level. But
[00:15:09] But actually, if we stand back and and look at the long-term trend,
[00:15:11] trend, it's the first time we've we've sort of held assuming we do
[00:15:15] do help hold above these levels really really since the time of before the
[00:15:19] the global financial crisis. And And so, you know, we stand back and
[00:15:21] and say, well, look, is this an anomaly? anomaly? Are they going to come back
[00:15:24] back down? Or actually many people people would say, look, this is more
[00:15:28] more like a normalisation. Perhaps Perhaps the years since the global
[00:15:31] global financial crisis, we had extraordinarily
[00:15:34] extraordinarily low long-term interest interest rates. And when we think think about the reasons why well,
[00:15:38] well, you've been talking about oil
[00:15:39] oil prices. Yes. That's a significant
[00:15:42] significant driver of long-term interest interest rates that inflationary
[00:15:46] inflationary push, but also another another driver of long-term interest
[00:15:50] interest rates is the fiscal situation. situation. There's a lot more government
[00:15:53] government debt out there than there there was before the global financial
[00:15:56] financial crisis years. And this this is another big driver of long-term
[00:16:00] long-term interest rates. What does does it mean for federal government
[00:16:03] government in the US in terms of of servicing its debt? Does it mean
[00:16:07] mean it's more expensive? It's something something we talk about here in the the UK a lot. The fact that the Chancellor's
[00:16:11] Chancellor's fiscal headroom is shrinking shrinking and that kind of thing, thing, is that the same story in
[00:16:14] in the US.? Yes, it is much more
[00:16:16] more expensive. And what's also really really worrying, particularly in
[00:16:20] in the US., is the size of the budget budget deficit. Now, if you like,
[00:16:24] like, if you have a big budget deficit
[00:16:27] deficit every year, then that means means you've got an accelerating
[00:16:30] accelerating pile of debt every year. year. And so many people would think
[00:16:33] think it's that pace of that growth growth of the debt, the budget deficit
[00:16:37] deficit that's perhaps the most worrying. worrying. Now here in the UK, for
[00:16:40] for instance, many people say, well well look, there's a plan. There's There's those fiscal rules. There's
[00:16:44] There's some discipline here. What What is the plan in the US.? Well,
[00:16:48] Well, that's not so clear. We know
[00:16:50] know that, for instance, a lot of
[00:16:53] of the tax implications that we've we've seen from the current administration
[00:16:56] administration have sort of added added to the budget deficit. And
[00:16:59] And the markets perhaps are clamouring clamouring for a little bit more
[00:17:03] more fiscal discipline from the Trump Trump administration. OK. Well, we'll
[00:17:07] we'll see some discipline from the the Federal Reserve. It will play
[00:17:09] play its part in all of this. It's It's likely to raise rates. Do you
[00:17:12] you think tomorrow and if so that that puts Kevin Warsh on a collision
[00:17:16] collision course with President Trump. Trump. It does. But perhaps it's
[00:17:19] it's something that the markets need need to hear because the markets
[00:17:22] markets want an independent Federal Federal Reserve. They don't want want one that is under the thumb
[00:17:26] thumb of the President. That perhaps perhaps would make inflation fears
[00:17:29] fears even worse and drive up those
[00:17:31] those long-term interest rates even
[00:17:33] even more so given the inflationary inflationary concerns. I think the
[00:17:36] the market needs to see some hawkish hawkish response from the Federal
[00:17:40] Federal Reserve. And at this point, point, with 90% of a hike priced
[00:17:44] priced in, if he doesn't hike interest interest rates, that would likely
[00:17:48] likely drive a long-term interest interest rates up even more and a
[00:17:51] a more accelerated pace. So the market market perhaps needs to see that
[00:17:54] that hawkish response from the central
[00:17:56] central bank. Now, nearly 1 in 3 3 organisations globally have been
[00:18:00] been hit by a successful cyber attack attack in the past year, according
[00:18:03] according to research by the insurance insurance firm Hiscox. And in the
[00:18:06] the UK alone, it's costing businesses
[00:18:08] businesses on average under £36,000
[00:18:11] £36,000 each in damages. Eddie Lamb Lamb is global head of cyber at Hiscox
[00:18:14] Hiscox and told us what's going on.
[00:18:16] on. I mean big brands like JLR often
[00:18:19] often attract headline attention, attention, but of course small to
[00:18:22] to medium businesses in the UK are are the backbone of our economy and
[00:18:26] and are a target, of course, for for cyber crime. And what our research
[00:18:30] research has shown us is that 40%,
[00:18:32] 40%, nearly of all SMEs in the United United Kingdom have experienced at
[00:18:36] at least one cyber attack over the the course of the last 12 months.
[00:18:40] months. In actual fact, many of them
[00:18:42] them report multiple cyber attacks
[00:18:44] attacks over that period. When you you look at the costs, as they as
[00:18:48] as they rack up sort of $36,000 to
[00:18:52] to remediate or to recover from an an incident like that. When you play
[00:18:56] play that out over the sort of the
[00:18:58] the UK economy at scale, you start start to see the impact that that
[00:19:02] that is having on, on the UK economy. economy. If you look at, you know,
[00:19:06] know, 40% of SMEs is around, you
[00:19:10] you know, 2.2 million small to medium medium businesses in the UK with
[00:19:13] with an average loss following a
[00:19:15] a cyber attack of around $36,000.
[00:19:18] $36,000. Then that comes out to around
[00:19:22] around $80 billion last year in terms
[00:19:24] terms of the impact of cyber crime crime on the United Kingdom economy.
[00:19:27] economy. Yeah. And there's also the
[00:19:30] the operational disruption that the
[00:19:32] the anxiety it causes and also the
[00:19:35] the hit to a brand and to the reputation reputation of a business. So it's
[00:19:38] it's felt on so many levels and yet
[00:19:40] yet it seems so persistent and relentless
[00:19:43] relentless for a small businesses businesses and medium sized company. company. I mean, how do they deal
[00:19:47] deal with this? Yeah, I think what
[00:19:49] what our research has shown us is is that UK businesses are proving
[00:19:53] proving to be very resilient. So
[00:19:54] So they tend to be targeted more
[00:19:57] more frequently than peers in, in
[00:20:00] in the US and Europe. But what they they do do. Why is that Eddie? Why
[00:20:03] Why are we targeted more frequently frequently in the UK is because we
[00:20:06] we haven't got such secure systems.
[00:20:09] systems. It could just be a reporting reporting issue. Sally, in terms
[00:20:11] terms of who reports what within within each different jurisdiction.
[00:20:14] jurisdiction. But if you look at at what the research has shown us
[00:20:18] us is, is the United Kingdom small small to medium business space is
[00:20:21] is very resilient. So whilst they they might have or report higher
[00:20:25] higher frequencies of attack, their their recovery times are much faster.
[00:20:28] faster. So if you look at the global
[00:20:31] global average is around 32 hours hours of downtime following a cyber
[00:20:34] cyber attack compared to UK based
[00:20:36] based SMEs recovering in around 24
[00:20:39] 24 hours. You can also compare that that against the average cost of
[00:20:42] of a cyber attack. So in the UK, UK, businesses tend to it tends to
[00:20:46] to cost businesses around $36,000
[00:20:48] $36,000 compared to a global average
[00:20:52] average of around $51,000. Really
[00:20:55] Really costly. The. The event of
[00:20:58] of a cyber attack on businesses. businesses. That's a look at our
[00:21:01] our website. As you can see, the the BBC News app as well is also
[00:21:05] also available with a special business business page. Do take a look if
[00:21:07] if you wish to find out more in business.
[00:21:31] in association with Turkish Airlines.
[00:21:35] Airlines. I'm travelling through through Japan, going off the beaten
[00:21:38] beaten track to find out what makes
[00:21:40] makes this country unique. This is
[00:21:43] is ultimate Japan. This time I visit
[00:21:48] visit Toba in the south to witness witness the ultimate Japanese fishing
[00:21:52] fishing tradition. I'm on a small
[00:21:54] small island in an area called Toba,
[00:21:56] Toba, which is home to one of Japan's
[00:21:58] Japan's most unusual communities
[00:22:00] communities a group, mostly women women who over generations have forged
[00:22:04] forged a really tight bond with both
[00:22:06] both the sea and nature generally.
[00:22:16] generally. AMA are iconic Japanese
[00:22:18] Japanese freedivers who collect seafood, seafood, seaweed and even pearls
[00:22:21] pearls from the sea floor. Almost
[00:22:24] Almost all AMA are women and many
[00:22:26] many keep diving until their 70s.
[00:22:29] 70s. 80s and even 90s diving without
[00:22:33] without oxygen in their traditional traditional white outfits. It's a a centuries old way of life that's
[00:22:37] that's been passed down through generations,
[00:22:40] generations, but today's divers under under threat from all the pressures
[00:22:44] pressures of modernity, are having having to adapt. Like here, displaying
[00:22:48] displaying their skills for tourists.
[00:22:52] tourists. Talbi what is this show
[00:22:55] show about. Amazon. There are know
[00:23:04] know so. Which do you prefer getting
[00:23:08] getting real fish or do you like like doing this and performing to
[00:23:12] to tourists. Or not? Oh, no no no
[00:23:18] no I. It's kind of ironic because
[00:23:22] because for a long time Japan was
[00:23:24] was a homogenous and quite inward
[00:23:27] inward looking society. But it's it's outsiders, tourists who are
[00:23:30] are now providing a major industry
[00:23:32] industry here. But rest assured elsewhere elsewhere there is still some genuine
[00:23:36] genuine AMA diving going on a few
[00:23:39] few miles along the shore in Asatsu Asatsu I meet some divers who are
[00:23:43] are still making a living from this
[00:23:44] this traditional form of fishing.
[00:23:50] fishing. He Abha so the Amazon Maya
[00:23:54] Maya Stark. Among us Watashi wa Umi.
[00:24:05] Umi. Yukimasu. So I don't know. I
[00:24:10] I don't know Oyo State mo. Yoko Ono
[00:24:23] Ono ono. Yet these AMA still need
[00:24:28] need to supplement their income by
[00:24:30] by preparing meals for. Well, people
[00:24:34] people like me. How is it different
[00:24:36] different now diving to when you
[00:24:38] you first started doing it. So Martin
[00:24:49] Martin Lindsay. And why do you think
[00:24:52] think that is? Do you think AMA diving
[00:24:56] diving will carry on? I know. Oyo.
[00:25:14] Oyo. Even having spent just a few few hours with these charming ladies
[00:25:18] ladies has made me realise that the the traditional old ways aren't just
[00:25:21] just romantic. They actually offer
[00:25:23] offer a viable way of life for the the next generation. It was really
[00:25:27] really interesting to learn that that people are coming back here
[00:25:29] here to actually live and work as
[00:25:31] as AMA divers. Maybe it's just very
[00:25:34] very Japanese. The past is also the
[00:25:38] the future.
[00:25:51] on BBC News in association with Turkish
[00:25:53] Turkish Airlines.
[00:29:28] MUSIC
[00:30:10] Live from London this is BBC
[00:30:12] News. I'm Karin Giannone. The authorities authorities in Lithuania spend the
[00:30:16] the night searching for
[00:30:21] For debris after a drone entered EU airspace and was shot shot down by Nato jets. The co-founder
[00:30:25] co-founder of Anthropic says AI firms firms may need a compulsory kill
[00:30:28] kill switch to stop the technology
[00:30:30] technology spiralling out of control. control. The public inquiry into
[00:30:33] into how former nurse Lucy Letby Letby was able to murder seven babies
[00:30:37] babies and attempt to kill seven seven more is due to publish its
[00:30:41] its findings. I'm Sally Bundock coming
[00:30:44] coming up in business Labour market market under pressure as the number
[00:30:46] number of UK workers on the payroll
[00:30:48] payroll falls, especially in retail
[00:30:51] retail and hospitality. And Prince Prince Harry and Meghan's police
[00:30:54] police protection is to be reviewed reviewed as they change their children's
[00:30:59] children's school over security