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[00:00:08] MUSIC
[00:00:10] It's 6pm in London. This is the World
[00:00:17] World Today with Annita McVeigh open
[00:00:19] open Eye. Anthropic and Google say say they're working to create an
[00:00:23] an AI standards body as concerns
[00:00:26] concerns over the technology grow.
[00:00:28] grow. It comes as key US figures figures from across the political
[00:00:31] political spectrum attend an event event in Washington calling for kerbs
[00:00:35] kerbs on artificial intelligence. intelligence. China warns against
[00:00:39] against turning outer space into into a battlefield, as the US confirms
[00:00:42] confirms for the first time that
[00:00:44] that it's deployed space weapons.
[00:00:46] weapons. The EU chief hits out at at what she calls Russia's reckless
[00:00:50] reckless and dangerous behaviour behaviour after a drone is shot down
[00:00:53] down by Nato fighter jets. Train
[00:00:56] Train travel across large parts of of the Netherlands has ground to
[00:01:00] to a standstill because of what authorities
[00:01:02] authorities suspect are co-ordinated co-ordinated acts of sabotage. And
[00:01:06] And also coming up on the world today,
[00:01:09] today, the Emmy winning medical show show that is hitting home with real
[00:01:12] real life doctors.
[00:01:27] And welcome to the world Today, an hour of international news from
[00:01:31] from the BBC. Good to have you with
[00:01:32] with us. In the last few minutes,
[00:01:35] minutes, OpenAI, Anthropic and Google Google have said they are working
[00:01:38] working to create an AI standards
[00:01:40] standards body. It's reported to
[00:01:42] to come from a proposal by Google
[00:01:45] Google DeepMind's Demis Hassabis
[00:01:47] Hassabis for a self-regulatory body body modelled after the Financial
[00:01:50] Financial Industry Regulatory Authority Authority that oversees US brokers
[00:01:53] brokers and investment firms. President President Trump has said fears over
[00:01:57] over AI are a hoax, but not everyone
[00:01:59] everyone in Washington is so sanguine. sanguine. And key US figures from
[00:02:03] from across the political spectrum spectrum are attending an event in
[00:02:06] in Washington calling for kerbs on on the technology. This is the scene
[00:02:10] scene live at what is being called
[00:02:13] called the Pro-human Assembly. We We are expecting to hear from the
[00:02:17] the left wing independent Senator Senator for Vermont Bernie Sanders
[00:02:19] Sanders in just a moment and also also from right wing strategist and
[00:02:23] and Trump ally Steve Bannon. The
[00:02:25] The two men finding common ground ground over this issue of AI. In
[00:02:29] In his latest broadcast, Bannon said
[00:02:32] said the American people are not
[00:02:34] not going to be supplicants to tech
[00:02:36] tech oligarchs. And in some of his his latest comments on the concerns
[00:02:40] concerns raised by AI insiders, President
[00:02:43] President Trump has dismissed fears fears about AI harming humanity as
[00:02:47] as a scam, saying there's no need
[00:02:50] need for more guardrails. Well over over the last week, as you will no
[00:02:53] no doubt be aware, there have been been multiple warnings about AI from
[00:02:57] from a variety of industry insiders insiders as well as politicians.
[00:03:00] politicians. Let's just take a moment
[00:03:01] moment to run through those for you.
[00:03:04] you. Last Wednesday, the Anthropic Anthropic researcher Jacob Coxson
[00:03:07] Coxson resigned, saying the race race to build ever more powerful
[00:03:10] powerful AI systems could put humanity
[00:03:13] humanity at risk. Instead of denying
[00:03:15] denying these claims, Anthropic scientists scientists doubled down the company's
[00:03:19] company's lead for alignment science. science. In other words, the person person responsible for making sure
[00:03:23] sure AI works for not against us
[00:03:25] us said AI has a 10% chance of killing
[00:03:28] killing all humans by 2030 unless
[00:03:31] unless we gain control of superintelligence.
[00:03:35] superintelligence. Anthropic then then revealed it had detected attempts attempts to use its AI to potentially
[00:03:39] potentially aid the development of
[00:03:41] of dangerous biological agents. And
[00:03:44] And over the weekend, Anthropic chief chief executive Dario Amodei stepped
[00:03:47] stepped in and called for the pace pace of advanced AI development to
[00:03:51] to slow down. In response, China
[00:03:54] China criticised Amodei for saying saying Beijing's proficiency in the
[00:03:57] the technology could create national
[00:03:59] national security risks for the US
[00:04:02] US and yesterday Monday, President President Trump rejected those calls
[00:04:05] calls for controls of artificial artificial intelligence, suggesting
[00:04:08] suggesting they would cut the lead lead the US has over China in the
[00:04:12] the sector. Mr Trump said the only only guardrail that AI needed was,
[00:04:16] was, in his words, a strong and smart
[00:04:19] smart president, which the US has.
[00:04:22] has. OK, well, I'm just keeping an an eye on what's happening in Washington.
[00:04:25] Washington. Bernie Sanders not speaking speaking yet. But with me here is
[00:04:28] is Max Corbridge, a former ethical
[00:04:30] ethical hacker and now CEO and co-founder
[00:04:32] co-founder of AI safety company Secure Secure Genetics. Max, always good
[00:04:35] good to have you with us. I want want to get your thoughts, first
[00:04:38] first of all on that announcement announcement from OpenAI. OpenAI,
[00:04:40] OpenAI, Anthropic and Google that
[00:04:42] that they want to create an AI standards
[00:04:45] standards body. How confident should
[00:04:47] should we be in the AI industry marking
[00:04:50] marking its own homework? So I think think that's really the challenge challenge that we've got at the moment.
[00:04:54] moment. We're seeing this come out out from all different sides. We're We're seeing the government saying
[00:04:58] saying that the industries need to to regulate themselves. We're seeing seeing the industry saying they're
[00:05:01] they're doing their best. I think think what we're really seeing is
[00:05:04] is the start of a lot of this stuff. stuff. This is version one if you
[00:05:07] you think about this and really this this has been put together in essentially essentially 4 or 5 days since this
[00:05:11] this really kicked off. So I think think this is a good thing. I think think we need to see this from both
[00:05:15] both the AI providers themselves themselves and from the governments governments that can wrap regulation regulation around this. And that's
[00:05:19] that's really where we're going to to see the most success in the endeavour endeavour to limit the potential
[00:05:23] potential harm that can come from
[00:05:24] from AI as well. And then in the
[00:05:27] the last 12 hours or so, 24 hours hours or so we've heard from President
[00:05:31] President Trump calling all of these these concerns a hoax. Your reaction
[00:05:34] reaction to that? You know, some
[00:05:35] some people are saying this is being
[00:05:39] being driven by the markets. These
[00:05:40] These comments of his. I feel very
[00:05:43] very saddened by that because we we had a real golden opportunity.
[00:05:46] opportunity. We had a time where where we had alignment from some
[00:05:49] some of these frontier AI labs for for the first time. We've got the
[00:05:52] the idea of the CEOs of these companies companies stepping up and saying, saying, yes, we do need to be doing
[00:05:55] doing something about this. And this this idea that that now is the time
[00:05:59] time to act. And we're calling out out for things like regulation and and governments to step in. At the
[00:06:03] the same time, the one person who who we needed to get on board with
[00:06:06] with that was President Trump. And And what did he do? He came out and
[00:06:08] and said that it was a hoax. I think think this will be something we look look back and regret, because this
[00:06:12] this seems like the time where AI AI safety is on top of mind for everybody. everybody. We can and should be acting
[00:06:16] acting now. We've got alignment and and collaboration efforts with us
[00:06:19] us and China that we're looking to to work with. And so I feel that's
[00:06:23] that's a really missed opportunity opportunity for us. But how much much alignment can there be between
[00:06:26] between the US and China? Because, Because, you know, on the one hand,
[00:06:30] hand, you have people saying there there needs to be a framework, an
[00:06:33] an agreed framework between the AI
[00:06:36] AI superpowers. I think we're almost almost with Bernie Sanders, but we'll
[00:06:38] we'll try and fit in a quick question. question. No, I can see him actually
[00:06:42] actually arriving at the podium. podium. Max, I will come back to to you. Bernie Sanders, who announced
[00:06:45] announced last week a bill banning
[00:06:49] banning artificial super intelligence. intelligence. In other words, systems
[00:06:51] systems that can match or indeed indeed beat human intelligence. Let's
[00:06:54] Let's listen in to what he has to
[00:06:56] to say. He has been involved on this
[00:07:00] this issue before. It was fashionable, fashionable, and I want to thank
[00:07:03] thank him for bringing people of
[00:07:06] of different political perspectives perspectives together to address
[00:07:10] address the growing threat posed
[00:07:13] posed by artificial intelligence. intelligence. This afternoon, I want
[00:07:17] want to say a few words on what I
[00:07:21] I consider to be the very most important
[00:07:26] important aspect of this crisis that
[00:07:27] that we are facing, and how we can
[00:07:31] can best go forward. Let us be clear
[00:07:37] clear artificial intelligence and
[00:07:41] and robotics are the most transformational
[00:07:44] transformational technologies in in the history of humanity, and they
[00:07:48] they will impact the lives of every
[00:07:53] every man, woman and child in our
[00:07:57] our country AI experts have told
[00:07:59] told us that within a few years,
[00:08:02] years, AI may be able to do anything
[00:08:07] anything that we can do better than
[00:08:10] than we can do it. The economic impact
[00:08:16] impact of that is that AI has the
[00:08:19] the potential to eliminate tens of
[00:08:23] of millions of jobs, wiping out entire
[00:08:27] entire professions and making it
[00:08:28] it harder for our young people to
[00:08:31] to enter the workforce. But it's
[00:08:36] it's not just the economy that AI
[00:08:38] AI is impacting. Psychologists have
[00:08:41] have warned us about the increased
[00:08:45] increased isolation and mental health
[00:08:47] health challenges young people are
[00:08:50] are experiencing as they become more
[00:08:53] more and more dependent upon an AI
[00:08:56] AI chat bot for their emotional support.
[00:09:03] support. Educators are worried about
[00:09:04] about a decline in our kids reading
[00:09:08] reading scores, writing abilities
[00:09:10] abilities and cognitive capabilities.
[00:09:13] capabilities. As AI is used more
[00:09:16] more and more in our schools civil
[00:09:20] civil libertarians warn us that AI
[00:09:24] AI is in the process of eviscerating
[00:09:27] eviscerating our privacy rights by
[00:09:29] by making it easier to collect and
[00:09:33] and analyse every email that we send,
[00:09:36] send, every text, every website visit
[00:09:40] visit and every trip that we make
[00:09:42] make in our car resulting in the
[00:09:46] the creation of a mass surveillance
[00:09:51] surveillance state political scientists scientists warn that AI could threaten
[00:09:55] threaten the integrity of our elections
[00:10:00] elections and political institutions
[00:10:02] institutions go to the internet right
[00:10:06] right now and with sophisticated sophisticated deepfakes, you will
[00:10:09] will find it increasingly difficult
[00:10:12] difficult to determine truth from
[00:10:15] from fiction. And yet as disturbing
[00:10:20] disturbing as all of that is, there
[00:10:23] there is another even more alarming
[00:10:27] alarming danger posed by AI. And
[00:10:32] And that is that if AI surpasses
[00:10:35] surpasses human intelligence, as
[00:10:37] as many scientists believe could
[00:10:41] could happen, this technology will
[00:10:44] will escape human control with potentially
[00:10:48] potentially catastrophic consequences.
[00:10:50] consequences. And perhaps the most
[00:10:53] most important point that I want
[00:10:55] want to leave with you this afternoon
[00:10:58] afternoon is that AI is advancing
[00:11:04] advancing exponentially exponentially
[00:11:07] exponentially every single day. In
[00:11:09] In other words, what you are looking
[00:11:12] looking at right now is the least
[00:11:16] least capable version of AI that
[00:11:20] that we will ever have. The least
[00:11:24] least capable, the dumbest version,
[00:11:26] version, the speed and scope of AI
[00:11:30] AI development in just the last four
[00:11:32] four years has been almost beyond
[00:11:36] beyond human comprehension. When
[00:11:38] When ChatGPT was first released in
[00:11:43] in November of 2022, AI models could
[00:11:45] could write a short poem, a few tweets
[00:11:48] tweets and maybe an essay that sort
[00:11:52] sort of made sense. Today, AI models
[00:11:56] models can already escape human control
[00:12:00] control commit felonies by hacking
[00:12:03] hacking into other computers and
[00:12:05] and create viruses that have never
[00:12:07] never been seen before. And my friends,
[00:12:13] friends, if you are concerned about
[00:12:15] about what is happening today, take
[00:12:18] take a deep breath and try to imagine
[00:12:22] imagine where AI will be five years
[00:12:26] years from now, ten years from now,
[00:12:28] now, 20 years from now. And to my
[00:12:33] my mind, here is what is most extraordinary
[00:12:37] extraordinary about the transformative transformative and unprecedented
[00:12:40] unprecedented changes that AI is
[00:12:43] is making to our society. Despite
[00:12:46] Despite living in a so-called democracy,
[00:12:49] democracy, the public has had virtually
[00:12:52] virtually no input into the AI revolution
[00:12:57] revolution that is transforming the
[00:12:59] the world in which they live. Congress
[00:13:04] Congress under both Democratic and
[00:13:06] and Republican control, have been
[00:13:08] been asleep at the wheel, and we
[00:13:11] we now have a president whose ignorance
[00:13:14] ignorance regarding this issue is
[00:13:16] is truly embarrassing. Virtually
[00:13:20] Virtually all of the decisions regarding
[00:13:21] regarding the development of AI have
[00:13:24] have been made by a handful of the
[00:13:28] the richest people in the world Musk,
[00:13:32] Musk, Zuckerberg, Bezos, Thiel, Ellison,
[00:13:34] Ellison, Brin and a few others whose
[00:13:37] whose chief goal is to achieve even
[00:13:40] even more wealth and more power than
[00:13:44] than they already have. No matter
[00:13:47] matter what the impact their work
[00:13:50] work has on ordinary people. So let
[00:13:53] let me make a radical suggestion
[00:13:56] suggestion if the lives of every
[00:13:59] every man, woman and child are going
[00:14:02] going to be fundamentally changed
[00:14:04] changed by this technology than the
[00:14:07] the people of this country must make
[00:14:09] make the decisions about AI and not
[00:14:13] not just a handful of oligarchs.
[00:14:25] oligarchs. Bernie Sanders continuing
[00:14:27] continuing to speak at this event event in Washington. Max Corbridge
[00:14:31] Corbridge still with me in the studio,
[00:14:34] studio, founder of AI safety company
[00:14:36] company Secure Agent, a really fascinating fascinating speech from Bernie Sanders.
[00:14:40] Sanders. And we're expecting Steve Steve Bannon opposite end of the
[00:14:43] the political spectrum to speak in in a few minutes as well, a Trump
[00:14:46] Trump ally. But, you know, calling calling for safeguards as well. It's
[00:14:50] It's fascinating, isn't it, that that this subject can bring people
[00:14:53] people from such different parts parts of the spectrum together? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's one of the very
[00:14:57] very few topics I think, which can can and there's a chance at the end
[00:15:00] end of the month that we may even even bring more collaboration between between the US and China around a
[00:15:04] a topic like this. Just because the the risk is so great, the time is
[00:15:07] is now. And really it does require require everybody from all sides
[00:15:11] sides of the political parties as as well as both nations who are kind
[00:15:14] kind of really pushing this forward forward to be able to collaborate collaborate on this, to make sure
[00:15:17] sure we are doing the right thing. But President Trump doesn't
[00:15:20] doesn't think there's a risk. That's That's the issue, isn't it? He doesn't doesn't think there's a risk. He
[00:15:23] He thinks that if the US slows down,
[00:15:25] down, it will fall behind China.
[00:15:28] China. When there is so much to lose
[00:15:32] lose in terms of power and economic economic growth. As the US and China
[00:15:35] China see it, do you really see there there being some kind of meeting
[00:15:38] meeting of minds in terms of guardrails
[00:15:42] guardrails around this technology? technology? I think I mean, it was was interesting. Bernie Sanders there
[00:15:45] there calls it truly embarrassing.
[00:15:48] embarrassing. The element of this, this, which we are, you know, looking
[00:15:51] looking at now, I just think is it's it's terrifying in terms of the precedent
[00:15:55] precedent that we're sending with with Trump at the wheel of this sort
[00:15:58] sort of technology. And I think maybe maybe his initial reaction was quite
[00:16:02] quite explosive. I think they tend tend to be and maybe we'll see a
[00:16:04] a more kind of weathered approach approach and sort of metred approach approach to this as well. Very briefly,
[00:16:08] briefly, Max, as we have to go to to our break, Bernie Sanders posed posed the question try to imagine
[00:16:12] imagine where AI will be in five, five, ten, 15 years from now. You're
[00:16:15] You're an expert on this. Can you you imagine that? I've given up trying
[00:16:18] trying to think where we will be be beyond the end of 2027. And even
[00:16:21] even that I think I mean, if you you think about how fast we've transitioned
[00:16:24] transitioned and moved from the coding coding era and coding agents, how
[00:16:27] how quickly that's changed that industry, industry, it's coming for a lot of of other industries. And that's just
[00:16:31] just within the last six months. OK. Well, that answer speaks speaks volumes, I think. Max thank
[00:16:35] thank you very much. Max. We'll be be staying with me here in the studio. studio. We're expecting Steve Bannon
[00:16:39] Bannon to speak. We'll bring that that to you as well very shortly.
[00:16:42] shortly. But a break now around the
[00:16:43] the world
[00:17:43] interviews, results and goals as as we follow every twist of the Premier
[00:17:47] Premier League season here on BBC
[00:17:50] BBC News. China has urged the United
[00:17:58] United States to stop preparing for
[00:17:59] for war in space and respond to confirmation
[00:18:02] confirmation that America had deployed deployed weapons into orbit for the
[00:18:06] the first time. Washington said it
[00:18:08] it had active weapons currently circling circling the globe. The Chinese Foreign
[00:18:12] Foreign Ministry has warned against against an arms race in space. As
[00:18:16] As Jonathan Beale reports. No notice notice launch Iran. The US Space
[00:18:19] Space Force is already helping America
[00:18:21] America fight its wars on the ground ground here, detecting the launch
[00:18:25] launch of ballistic missiles. This
[00:18:27] This is the Wolf Den. But it's also
[00:18:30] also preparing for a potential conflict
[00:18:32] conflict in space. We are already already sparring in the cyber domain
[00:18:35] domain in the space domain. Home
[00:18:37] Home to thousands of active satellites
[00:18:40] satellites Iran. Now, for the first first time, the US has confirmed
[00:18:44] confirmed it's deployed a weapon weapon in space. The US Air Force
[00:18:48] Force secretary said it wanted to to maintain its dominance. So we've
[00:18:52] we've had to take steps to make sure sure that when we're threatened,
[00:18:55] threatened, we can take care of that.
[00:18:58] that. That's prompted both Russia
[00:18:59] Russia and China to condemn the move
[00:19:02] move and warn of an arms race in
[00:19:05] in space. America's already accused
[00:19:07] accused them of doing the same. The
[00:19:10] The reality is there's already the the start of an arms race in space.
[00:19:14] space. The US has accused both China
[00:19:16] China and Russia of developing satellites
[00:19:19] satellites that can jam the signals
[00:19:21] signals of other satellites or listen
[00:19:23] listen in all deploying lasers to
[00:19:25] to blind them. Even fitting grappling
[00:19:28] grappling arms to try to manoeuver manoeuver other satellites out of
[00:19:31] of orbit. The US has also accused accused both China and Russia are
[00:19:35] are developing weapons that can be
[00:19:37] be fired into space or from space
[00:19:40] space to destroy satellites. Three.
[00:19:42] Three. Two. We have ignition. But
[00:19:45] But for now, the US isn't saying saying what weapon it's launched
[00:19:49] launched into orbit. What the US
[00:19:51] US is talking about are probably probably things like electronic warfare
[00:19:55] warfare or jamming abilities or spoofing
[00:19:58] spoofing abilities, possibly things things like what we call co-orbital
[00:20:01] co-orbital weapons, which you have have another satellite that's orbiting
[00:20:04] orbiting alongside another satellite satellite and could bang into it.
[00:20:06] it. It's not just the military that
[00:20:09] that increasingly relies on space.
[00:20:11] space. We all do on satellites for
[00:20:14] for everyday life, from social media media to phone calls and finding
[00:20:18] finding our way about. It's not yet
[00:20:21] yet Star Wars, but an arms race in
[00:20:24] in space should concern us all. Jonathan
[00:20:27] Jonathan Beale, BBC News. Let's speak speak now to Juliette Java Sea, who
[00:20:30] who is lead on security and defence defence at the European Space Policy
[00:20:34] Policy Institute. Julia, welcome
[00:20:36] welcome to BBC News. What kind of of weapons might we be talking about
[00:20:40] about here in terms of what the US
[00:20:43] US has done? Thank you. Good afternoon. afternoon. Good evening. So regarding
[00:20:46] regarding the type of capability
[00:20:50] capability or its positioning in in orbit, we don't have that many
[00:20:53] many information. We know the variety
[00:20:56] variety and the options of counter
[00:20:58] counter space options that could could be developed. In this case,
[00:21:02] case, most likely. But just because
[00:21:05] because it is also consistent of
[00:21:07] of the efforts of the US for instance,
[00:21:09] instance, in relation to the banning
[00:21:11] banning of Dasa to kinetic weapons.
[00:21:16] weapons. It's most likely that it's
[00:21:20] it's it will be some sort of electronic
[00:21:23] electronic warfare or radio jamming
[00:21:26] jamming platforms less likely that that it's a kinetic vehicle of some
[00:21:30] some of some kind. And this is also
[00:21:32] also confirmed by really the international international commitment of the US
[00:21:35] US in relation to the second specific specific type of counter space. And
[00:21:39] And when it comes to space weapons,
[00:21:42] weapons, Julia, what capabilities capabilities do the US, Russia and
[00:21:45] and China have right now relative
[00:21:46] relative to one another? So Russia,
[00:21:52] Russia, China and the US, they have
[00:21:54] have all been developing manoeuvrable
[00:21:58] manoeuvrable satellites meant to
[00:21:59] to either conduct inspections or
[00:22:04] or potentially to then deploy payloads
[00:22:08] payloads which have to install sensor
[00:22:11] sensor payloads which have the capability capability to jam or even to direct
[00:22:15] direct energy weapons towards their their targets. So this is already
[00:22:18] already something they have, as I
[00:22:21] I mentioned before, they all tested
[00:22:24] tested also kinetic weapons, although
[00:22:26] although as I mentioned before, with
[00:22:29] with a commitment not to develop
[00:22:30] develop this type of to deploy this
[00:22:33] this type of weapons in relation relation to the debris that they
[00:22:36] they would be producing. And so in in some sort of a very pragmatic
[00:22:40] pragmatic approach also to what is
[00:22:43] is becoming a warfighting domain
[00:22:46] domain they also. Sorry, Julia, I
[00:22:48] I was just going to say there's a
[00:22:52] a 1967 treaty in place which banned
[00:22:54] banned weapons of mass destruction
[00:22:56] destruction in orbit. But what kind
[00:22:59] kind of guardrails? There seems to to be a word that we're returning returning to on the programme today.
[00:23:02] today. First, in relation to AI and
[00:23:05] and now space weaponry. Are there there any guardrails or treaties
[00:23:09] treaties in place to deal with the the types of weaponry that we're
[00:23:12] we're talking about here? So there
[00:23:15] there are, of course treaties in in place. Their ability to keep up
[00:23:18] up with the pace of technological technological development. That is
[00:23:22] is indeed another question. The Outer Outer Space Treaty is really different.
[00:23:25] different. Treaty of outer space space activities. However, it's also
[00:23:28] also the product of its time. So
[00:23:30] So it focuses primarily on traditional traditional warfare technologies
[00:23:34] technologies such as weapons of mass
[00:23:35] mass destruction and nuclear weapons. weapons. But it doesn't really appear
[00:23:39] appear to cover the deployment of of the full range of counter space
[00:23:42] space options that right now we are
[00:23:44] are seeing under development, including including those, especially that
[00:23:47] that are carried out via Non-kinetic
[00:23:50] Non-kinetic electronic or cyber means means eventually. So in that sense,
[00:23:54] sense, we don't have a safeguard safeguard there. We have, of course,
[00:23:57] course, however, and it is important important also to mention we have
[00:24:00] have all the safeguards that we find, find, whether international or in
[00:24:03] in relation to the use of force and
[00:24:05] and in relation to international international humanitarian law. So
[00:24:09] So the law during armed conflicts.
[00:24:11] conflicts. OK. Julia Pervizi from from the European Space Policy Institute,
[00:24:15] Institute, thank you very much for for your time. Now, in what's believed
[00:24:18] believed to be an act of sabotage, sabotage, train travel across large
[00:24:22] large parts of the Netherlands ground ground to a standstill today, hours
[00:24:25] hours before the ceremonial state state opening of Parliament services
[00:24:29] services in central and eastern parts parts of the country suffered severe
[00:24:32] severe disruption. Authorities suspect suspect this was a co-ordinated act
[00:24:36] act of sabotage. A statement from
[00:24:38] from the Dutch rail operator ProRail
[00:24:40] ProRail said objects had been found found attached to train tracks in
[00:24:44] in multiple locations. It said no
[00:24:46] no suspect or motive had been identified identified yet, but the National
[00:24:50] National Police Unit is investigating. investigating. Our correspondent
[00:24:52] correspondent Nick Beake is in Brussels, Brussels, where the disruption is
[00:24:55] is already affecting neighbouring neighbouring countries. Yes, mainly
[00:24:59] mainly in the north and the east east of the country where the disruption
[00:25:02] disruption has been seen from early early this morning, it has to be be said, and the information we've
[00:25:05] we've got is from the Dutch rail
[00:25:07] rail operator saying that there thinking
[00:25:10] thinking that this is a co-ordinated co-ordinated act of sabotage, they're
[00:25:14] they're talking about around 30 spots,
[00:25:16] spots, mainly in rural locations. locations. These are places where
[00:25:20] where it seems that someone has attached attached some sort of tube or pipe
[00:25:24] pipe to the track. And the problem problem is that the computer system
[00:25:28] system detects this as being a part part of the track that's occupied.
[00:25:30] occupied. So in other words, the the computer thinks that there is
[00:25:34] is some sort of train there at the the moment. So that kicks into place
[00:25:38] place a red light. And so you get
[00:25:40] get all this disruption along the
[00:25:42] the tracks. And we've seen this today,
[00:25:45] today, lots of cancellations, lots lots of problems. The big question
[00:25:48] question is who is behind this. And And we don't have an answer to that.
[00:25:51] that. We know that the various authorities,
[00:25:54] authorities, the police prosecutors prosecutors also intelligence agencies agencies in the Netherlands are looking
[00:25:58] looking into this. One thing to say, say, though, this is the Dutch equivalent
[00:26:02] equivalent of the state opening of of Parliament. It's when the King
[00:26:05] King gives a speech, the government government sets out its budget for
[00:26:09] for the next year and farmers had had said that they were going to
[00:26:12] to protest in some way today. They They haven't said that they're behind
[00:26:15] behind this, but certainly lots of of people, lots of groups in the
[00:26:18] the Netherlands unhappy about the the budget for the year ahead. And
[00:26:21] And so that will certainly be one one line of inquiry that the authorities
[00:26:24] authorities will be looking at. Nick Nick Beake let's return to our top
[00:26:28] top story now on AI. We can show show you the scene live in Washington.
[00:26:31] Washington. Bernie Sanders still still speaking there at the Pro-human
[00:26:35] Pro-human Assembly in Washington, Washington, DC we're expecting in in a moment to hear from Steve Bannon,
[00:26:39] Bannon, an ally of President Trump. Trump. But he is hugely critical
[00:26:42] critical of President Trump's reluctance reluctance to order federal regulation.
[00:26:46] regulation. Max Corbridge is still
[00:26:48] still here with me, CEO of AI safety
[00:26:51] safety company Secure Agent Max. Max. It was also really interesting
[00:26:54] interesting to hear from Bernie Sanders Sanders a few minutes ago where he
[00:26:58] he was talking about AI escaping
[00:27:01] escaping human control. We know there
[00:27:03] there have been instances of AI models models doing that, but if we look
[00:27:07] look at that on a larger scale, how how possible how likely is that briefly?
[00:27:10] briefly? Well, that's exactly it. it. We've seen on the small scales scales already where you give a task
[00:27:14] task to an AI agent and it does something something that you didn't anticipate. anticipate. And we've actually deemed
[00:27:17] deemed that loss of control. But But what we're really running towards
[00:27:20] towards is where we're using AI to to create the next frontier of AI.
[00:27:23] AI. And that's where we kind of zoom zoom out a bit and we see the existential
[00:27:26] existential risk. And that's really really something that OpenAI have have said they want to do in the
[00:27:30] the next two years. And it's something something that really then we put put we put the gas pedal down without
[00:27:34] without the ability to pull the brakes brakes up because we're no longer longer the ones creating these AI
[00:27:38] AI systems. Yeah. OK. Max, thank
[00:27:40] thank you very much for that. And And yeah, just a reminder of that
[00:27:43] that breaking news in the last couple couple of minutes. OpenAI Anthropic
[00:27:47] Anthropic and Google talking about
[00:27:50] about creating a guardrail, a kind kind of a way of keeping check on
[00:27:54] on AI, but huge questions about whether whether the industry itself should
[00:27:57] should be responsible for creating creating a standards body, whether
[00:28:00] whether it should be a body that that is independent of the industry.
[00:28:03] industry. We're going to keep you you right up to date with developments developments in
[00:29:36] still in the mid to high 40s by.