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[00:00:00] you are. Business on BBC News. Make
[00:00:00] Make the connection. MUSIC
[00:00:08] MUSIC
[00:00:17] These are the latest headlines
[00:00:19] from BBC News. The King issues an
[00:00:22] an unusually pointed response after after Earl Spencer, Princess Diana's
[00:00:26] Diana's brother, makes fresh claims claims about him in his new book.
[00:00:29] book. Fiji declares a national emergency
[00:00:32] emergency following an alarming surge
[00:00:34] surge in HIV cases. 1 in 60 adults
[00:00:37] adults in the Pacific island nation nation now live with the virus that
[00:00:40] that causes Aids. The Bank of England
[00:00:43] England is expected to hold interest interest rates in the face of rising
[00:00:47] rising prices, as the US hikes, borrowing
[00:00:49] borrowing costs. Microsoft's head
[00:00:51] head of AI tells the BBC his competitors competitors approach to training
[00:00:54] training their models could have
[00:00:56] have a disastrous impact on the wellbeing
[00:00:58] wellbeing of humanity. European Commission Commission President Ursula von der
[00:01:02] der Leyen moves ahead with plans
[00:01:03] plans to ban social media for under
[00:01:06] under 13 seconds, saying these apps
[00:01:07] apps are depriving children of their
[00:01:10] their childhood. And the boss of of social media company Snapchat
[00:01:13] Snapchat says the firm would be willing willing to implement time limits
[00:01:16] limits for teenagers as an important
[00:01:18] important step forward for the industry.
[00:01:27] industry. Hello, I'm Karin Giannone. Giannone. King Charles has called
[00:01:29] called on AI giants to keep tech tech in service of humanity ahead
[00:01:33] ahead of him chairing a summit with
[00:01:36] with industry leaders concerns about
[00:01:38] about the existential threat of artificial artificial intelligence have intensified
[00:01:41] intensified in recent weeks, with with several instances of bad actors
[00:01:45] actors using AI models for weapons
[00:01:48] weapons development and fraud. Well, Well, let's speak now to Yang Li,
[00:01:52] Li, co-founder and chief operating
[00:01:54] operating officer of AI lab Cosign,
[00:01:57] Cosign, who are developing what they they describe as the first fully
[00:02:00] fully British AI model to rival the the likes of Anthropic and OpenAI.
[00:02:03] OpenAI. Yang Li, thank you very much much for being with us. Just tell
[00:02:07] tell us why, in your view, it's so
[00:02:10] so important for the UK to have its
[00:02:12] its own AI model. I think a sovereign sovereign model is beyond just a
[00:02:16] a Union Jack sticker. I think as as we are depending and building
[00:02:19] building on top of AI, the UK needs needs to know what is exactly inside
[00:02:23] inside the AI, what data is inside inside it. Does it have a kill switch
[00:02:26] switch that is beholden to another another foreign government? And will
[00:02:29] will we lose access to it when we we need it the most? When our country
[00:02:32] country is in danger? You mentioned mentioned you used the word sovereign
[00:02:35] sovereign AI. I mean, what is the the difference that you mean by using
[00:02:39] using that word specifically? I think
[00:02:42] think a lot of the most popular AI AI solutions on the market at the
[00:02:45] the moment are mostly American or or Chinese. So the American models
[00:02:48] models they put into the data sets sets to build the AI that we have
[00:02:52] have no idea what goes inside of of it. They can turn off access whenever
[00:02:55] whenever they want to, whether it's it's by policy or on a hardware level.
[00:02:58] level. As we have seen with Donald Donald Trump's export ban of Anthropic
[00:03:01] Anthropic models or it's on built built by Chinese side, in which case
[00:03:04] case we still don't know what data data sets are going inside of it.
[00:03:07] it. And so building a sovereign model model means we have control over
[00:03:10] over every layer from the ground ground up. So in your sense, you
[00:03:13] you mean there can be complete trust trust in that model. And that is
[00:03:17] is important for the UK's security? security? Yeah, absolutely. We are
[00:03:21] are completely open. So here at Cosign Cosign we built in partnership our
[00:03:25] our model, you know with some of of the largest UK publicly traded
[00:03:28] traded companies. And so everyone everyone has access to know what
[00:03:31] what exactly goes inside our models, models, how it works, what is the
[00:03:34] the architecture and the conditions conditions and the assurance we give give in terms of deployment. What
[00:03:38] What do you think of what's happening happening today, King Charles, of
[00:03:40] of all people bringing AI leaders leaders together at the summit in
[00:03:44] in Scotland in a few hours' time. time. I think it's really timely.
[00:03:47] timely. I think that's the. Even
[00:03:49] Even a few months ago, AI was seen
[00:03:52] seen as novelty, as potentially impactful. impactful. I think now towards the
[00:03:56] the end of the year, we are seeing seeing that it's making huge improvements improvements in productivity. But
[00:04:00] But also that brings with it also also a huge amount of risk. And actually
[00:04:03] actually I think it's a great time time to basically talk about how
[00:04:06] how do we build on it securely, but but also give us the resilience that
[00:04:10] that we need and demand here in the the UK. I'm very interested to get
[00:04:13] get your thoughts on that word, that that risk because over the last week
[00:04:17] week or so, that is all we have been been hearing day after day about
[00:04:20] about the potential threats to the the very existence of humanity. Where
[00:04:24] Where are you on that? I think where
[00:04:27] where I get to is we should be concerned, concerned, but we shouldn't be frightened.
[00:04:30] frightened. You know, I think that that it's all still very nascent
[00:04:33] nascent in terms of what is the capability capability of AI. Obviously, there's there's a huge amount of potential.
[00:04:37] potential. We've seen the speed of of innovation in AI, but actually actually I think that we have yet
[00:04:41] yet to see the true impact and a a grand scale yet. So I think, as
[00:04:45] as I said, this is a great time to to begin to talk about the nascent
[00:04:48] nascent era of AI and think about
[00:04:50] about the risks and how do we protect protect ourselves in case something,
[00:04:53] something, you know, happens as unexpected. unexpected. And so right now I'm
[00:04:56] I'm not frightened. I'm just concerned. concerned. And what would you at
[00:04:59] at Cosign be doing differently to to avoid those risks becoming reality
[00:05:03] reality differently to your rivals? rivals? Yeah. So you know, we work
[00:05:07] work very closely with government government organisations like ASIS
[00:05:10] ASIS or the AI Safety Institute, Institute, and we're collaborating
[00:05:13] collaborating with them to test and and probe and we give them we're
[00:05:16] we're completely transparent with with them to understand, you know, know, where the risk vectors might
[00:05:20] might be with AI that we're building. building. But also we have a partnership partnership that we've just announced
[00:05:23] announced this week with a leading leading cybersecurity firm that focuses
[00:05:27] focuses on AI to again, give us an
[00:05:30] an independent sort of test and verification verification that our AI is safe.
[00:05:33] safe. And, you know, not all AI companies companies in the world is now collaborating
[00:05:37] collaborating with the AI Safety Safety Institute, which in my opinion
[00:05:39] opinion is a world leading and a a truly the UK is pioneering and
[00:05:43] and pushing the boundaries of AI AI safety. And it's a shame that that some American models are no
[00:05:46] no longer working with them. We really really believe that having a third
[00:05:50] third party, you know, verification verification and auditor is really really important when it comes to
[00:05:53] to AI. How do you get around that?
[00:05:55] that? I mean, if, say, 80% of AI
[00:05:57] AI models comply with regulations regulations or agreements, the outliers
[00:06:01] outliers who decide they're not going going to be held back. Yeah. And
[00:06:04] And I think this is a there's quite quite a lot of tension here. And And again, this has only happened
[00:06:08] happened very recently. You know, know, I think in the world of AI, AI, we operate in weeks and often
[00:06:12] often government operates in years years in terms of timeline, I think.
[00:06:15] think. So this is still developing. developing. I think for us, our view
[00:06:18] view is that we have to be as cautious cautious and have as many guardrails
[00:06:22] guardrails as possible, but we can't
[00:06:24] can't stop innovating, right, because because other countries and maybe
[00:06:28] maybe even our adversaries will continue continue to innovate and push without
[00:06:31] without any rules and regulation. regulation. We have to innovate but
[00:06:34] but also have a minimum amount of of regulation. And, you know, to to understand what the risks are.
[00:06:37] are. So understanding the risks is is probably the first step before before controlling the risks. And
[00:06:41] And just on something that's been been talked about a lot in the last last few hours, the head of Microsoft
[00:06:45] Microsoft AI saying unless adequate adequate restrictions, excuse me,
[00:06:49] me, are implemented, it could lead lead to the emergence of a new silicon
[00:06:52] silicon species. What do you feel feel about describing AI as a species
[00:06:56] species in its own right? I think
[00:06:59] think for us, I think that's a little little bit too premature. I think
[00:07:02] think we're seeing AI is still a a tool in the same way that the internet
[00:07:06] internet was seen as quite scary scary in the beginning, and as it
[00:07:09] it had a lot of potential. I think think it's probably too far too early
[00:07:12] early to describe it as a completely completely new species. I think that
[00:07:16] that we will obviously augment how how we work in society. We will work
[00:07:19] work faster. We need to spend a lot
[00:07:21] lot of time in terms of retraining retraining existing staff members,
[00:07:24] members, you know, and we are collaborating collaborating with a lot of our coalition
[00:07:28] coalition partners, whether it's it's by Babcock, GSK or Telefonica
[00:07:31] Telefonica or any of the Sis that that we're working with. We're working,
[00:07:34] working, thinking hard about how how do we bring existing workers
[00:07:37] workers into the AI world rather rather than thinking that we're replacing
[00:07:40] replacing humans altogether? Yang Yang Li, co-founder and chief operating
[00:07:43] operating officer of Cosign, a London London based AI lab thank you very
[00:07:47] very much. Thank you. Now the EU
[00:07:50] EU has set out plans to ban social
[00:07:53] social media for children under the
[00:07:54] the age of 13. Older children aged
[00:07:57] aged between 13 and 15 will be allowed allowed limited use of the technology,
[00:08:00] technology, but only with supervision. supervision. Many governments are
[00:08:02] are following the example of Australia
[00:08:04] Australia and planning tighter restrictions restrictions because of concerns
[00:08:08] concerns over the harmful effects effects on children's mental health.
[00:08:11] health. In the last half hour, EU
[00:08:14] EU chief Ursula von der Leyen has has set out her proposals to the
[00:08:18] the European Parliament. No social
[00:08:20] social media under the age of 13.
[00:08:23] 13. No personal account under the
[00:08:26] the age of 15. That means from 13
[00:08:30] 13 until a child turns 15, only mini
[00:08:34] mini accounts that are set up and
[00:08:36] and supervised by parents or guardians
[00:08:39] guardians with limited features and
[00:08:41] and time restriction to one hour
[00:08:43] hour a day maximum. And then between
[00:08:47] between 15 and 18. Safe design will
[00:08:50] will be an obligation for the platforms.
[00:08:54] platforms. To be very clear, an age
[00:08:56] age limit does not mean letting tech
[00:09:00] tech companies off the hook for the
[00:09:03] the content of the platform. Platforms Platforms have been playing fast
[00:09:06] fast and loose with children's mental
[00:09:08] mental health. Now we are reversing
[00:09:11] reversing the burden of proof. Now
[00:09:14] Now they have to prove to us that that they are safe. Ursula von der
[00:09:18] der Leyen, speaking just in the last last half hour or so, let's talk
[00:09:22] talk to our Europe correspondent correspondent Nick Beake in Brussels.
[00:09:25] Brussels. Nick, just hearing those
[00:09:28] those plans from the EU, how is this
[00:09:31] this expected to work? Hi, Catherine. Catherine. Well, some of the details details there outlined by president
[00:09:35] president von der Leyen about this this sort of gradual approach for
[00:09:39] for kids under 13, having no social
[00:09:41] social media, then between the ages
[00:09:43] ages of 13 and 14 limited access
[00:09:45] access only an hour a day and with
[00:09:48] with parental supervision and also also restricted services. And then
[00:09:51] then when kids get to 15, there's there's a bit more freedom there
[00:09:54] there to set up their own accounts. accounts. But there are lots of questions
[00:09:56] questions about how this will be
[00:09:59] be implemented and how it will work. work. We've seen Australia famously
[00:10:02] famously bring in their ban at the the end of last year for under 16
[00:10:06] 16 seconds, using social media and
[00:10:08] and the whole emphasis, according according to the European Union,
[00:10:12] Union, is that basically these big big tech companies need to earn the
[00:10:15] the right to get access to children children in the European Union to
[00:10:19] to be able to win the trust of the
[00:10:22] the European Union, to have that that sort of access so that their
[00:10:26] their platforms can be used. But But there are questions about how
[00:10:29] how this will be enforced. And you've you've got to look at France, for for example. They've been working
[00:10:33] working on their own plans. And just just last month the highest court
[00:10:36] court in France said that it was was blocking plans for an under 15
[00:10:40] 15 social media ban there because
[00:10:42] because of concerns over expression, expression, the freedom of expression.
[00:10:46] expression. So that's just one example example of how there could be quite
[00:10:48] quite a bumpy road here. Yes. How How is the EU expected to navigate
[00:10:52] navigate that? I mean that's just just the example of France. But if if you've got a whole load of individual
[00:10:56] individual nation states who want want to go their own way, how are are they going to do it? Yeah. Well,
[00:11:00] Well, I think what will happen is is all these individual countries
[00:11:03] countries will continue their own own legislation because we know they're
[00:11:07] they're at various stages down the the track at the moment. In doing
[00:11:10] doing so, Spain, for example, is
[00:11:12] is looking to do something that would would be a bit tougher, as in it
[00:11:16] it would be more of a blanket ban
[00:11:18] ban for people under the age of 15
[00:11:20] 15 or 16. There is this gradual approach
[00:11:23] approach under these EU legislation.
[00:11:26] legislation. Proposed legislation. legislation. I think also within
[00:11:29] within this, although it wasn't announced announced in this press conference conference today, there is some suggestion
[00:11:33] suggestion that the big tech companies
[00:11:35] companies will be fined quite heavily heavily if they don't meet the standards
[00:11:39] standards that are put forward. There There were some reports up to 6%
[00:11:42] 6% of their global sales could be
[00:11:45] be fined in this. And also questions questions about not just how parents
[00:11:48] parents may be expected to oversee oversee this, because quite a lot
[00:11:52] lot of the burden would be on parents
[00:11:55] parents and guardians, but also other other sort of aspects of this. For
[00:11:59] For example, age verification. It It looks like that kids will have
[00:12:01] have to prove that they're old enough enough to use certain services. And
[00:12:05] And within that, some people are are saying there are concerns about
[00:12:08] about privacy and the information information of young people, children
[00:12:11] children and teenagers. The EU say say with this they've got their own
[00:12:14] own app and basically all that will will be detected is whether the children
[00:12:18] children are old enough to access access this service and that personal
[00:12:22] personal details, names, addresses, addresses, all the rest of it that that won't be supplied to these big
[00:12:26] big tech companies, but certainly certainly lots to be debated in the
[00:12:29] the weeks and months to come. And And they need the agreement of lots
[00:12:32] lots of people here. Ultimately, Ultimately, the European Parliament Parliament and those individual countries,
[00:12:35] countries, they need to be on board board if this is going to become become a reality. Thank you very
[00:12:39] very much. Nick Beake in Brussels. Brussels. Around the world and across across the
[00:13:43] performances that got attention and and the possible awards contenders contenders to have emerged. Join
[00:13:45] Join me Tom Brook for Talking Movies
[00:13:49] Movies on BBC News. Let's return
[00:13:56] return to the situation in Gaza now. now. At least 21 people, including
[00:13:59] including eight children, have been been killed after a building damaged
[00:14:03] damaged by the war collapsed in the the Gaza Strip on Tuesday. Well,
[00:14:07] Well, we can speak to Toby Fricker, Fricker, who's chief of communication
[00:14:10] communication at Unicef Palestine. Palestine. Thank you very much for
[00:14:13] for joining us. I wonder if you could could update us on the latest at
[00:14:16] at what is going on at the scene? scene? Yeah, absolutely. I mean,
[00:14:20] mean, it's another tragedy for children children and families in Gaza. What
[00:14:23] What we now know is around at least least we believe 11 children have
[00:14:27] have been reported killed and many many others injured. The search and
[00:14:31] and rescue operations are sort of of winding down now. I just spoke
[00:14:34] spoke to a colleague who's on the the ground there and it's devastating
[00:14:37] devastating because it's something something that unfortunately could could occur again. You know, there
[00:14:40] there are so many buildings in such such a precarious situation. I was
[00:14:44] was in Gaza last week and you can
[00:14:45] can see that really first-hand across across the strip. So we're doing
[00:14:49] doing Unicef. We're working with with our partners. We're providing providing medical support. We're
[00:14:52] We're providing psychological support support for children affected and
[00:14:55] and trying to provide essential supplies. supplies. I mean, these are families
[00:14:58] families who are living in a building
[00:15:01] building very precarious conditions. conditions. There's people who are
[00:15:04] are living in tents around these these buildings in Gaza as well,
[00:15:07] well, who also are in danger. And And there's few places to go. So
[00:15:10] So the situation is really devastating devastating for children and families
[00:15:14] families affected. We are actually actually able to look at the live
[00:15:18] live scene of that building, the the collapsed building, a scene of
[00:15:20] of complete devastation. And what what you're saying is that there
[00:15:23] there are people who are feeling feeling that they have simply no
[00:15:26] no option but to move back in to to these very unsafe structures.
[00:15:30] structures. Yeah. That's right. I I mean, there's very little space.
[00:15:32] space. I mean, families, children children have been squeezed into
[00:15:35] into to a small space across the the Gaza Strip and there are tents
[00:15:39] tents everywhere. There's so-called so-called sort of camps across the the strip. There's very little space.
[00:15:42] space. I mean, I met families who
[00:15:45] who had to move back to more unsafe unsafe areas because they just couldn't
[00:15:48] couldn't find a space to put up a a tent somewhere. So this is an ongoing
[00:15:52] ongoing risk. And the worry now is is with the winter approaching, it's
[00:15:56] it's bringing rains, colder temperatures temperatures and this could further further destabilise some of these
[00:16:00] these buildings that are in a very
[00:16:02] very precarious situation. What is
[00:16:04] is the situation regarding rebuilding
[00:16:06] rebuilding or even beginning to rebuild?
[00:16:10] rebuild? Yeah, I mean, I mean, it's
[00:16:11] it's a huge challenge. I mean, the
[00:16:14] the access to water, sanitation, sanitation, you know, health care,
[00:16:17] care, schooling have all been impacted impacted massively. Of course. What
[00:16:20] What I can say is that Unicef and and many other partners are doing
[00:16:24] doing what we can. We're providing providing that support to help families
[00:16:26] families survive, to keep going. going. But what we really need to to do is scale up that that sort
[00:16:30] sort of what we call early recovery, recovery, you know, being able to
[00:16:34] to restore water, sanitation systems, systems, being able to rebuild the
[00:16:37] the education system. We do have have children now registering to
[00:16:40] to go back to school, back to learning learning because they're going to
[00:16:43] to be in tents in, in school grounds grounds that have been damaged. But
[00:16:46] But it's one positive. Let's say say children are preparing for that.
[00:16:49] that. Around 300,000 children are are registered to start learning learning again. And that's critical
[00:16:53] critical for some routine, some stability
[00:16:55] stability for children across the the Gaza Strip. Toby Fricker, Unicef,
[00:16:59] Unicef, Palestine's chief of communications, communications, speaking to us from
[00:17:02] from Jerusalem. Thank you very much.
[00:17:06] much. Now, Robert Kraft, the US stadium
[00:17:09] stadium owner who had pro-Palestinian pro-Palestinian rapper Macklemore Macklemore removed as Ed Sheeran's
[00:17:13] Sheeran's opening act, says Sheeran
[00:17:14] Sheeran asked him to match his own
[00:17:17] own $2 million donation for aid in in the region. This follows the news
[00:17:20] news on Tuesday that all of Ed Sheeran's Sheeran's support acts had quit his
[00:17:24] his loop tour in solidarity with
[00:17:26] with fellow support act Macklemore
[00:17:29] Macklemore after he was dropped from
[00:17:31] from the show from making pro-Palestinian
[00:17:35] pro-Palestinian remarks on stage. stage. Now another development to
[00:17:37] to bring you on that a radio station
[00:17:40] station has now dropped Ed Sheeran's Sheeran's music after what it calls
[00:17:43] calls the reaction from our listeners listeners to that decision to remove
[00:17:47] remove Macklemore from the tour over over comments the rapper made about
[00:17:50] about Gaza. It goes on to say Classic Classic Hits Radio, which is based
[00:17:53] based in Ireland, said it had made made the decision to remove the Galway
[00:17:57] Galway Girl singer's music for the
[00:18:00] the foreseeable future after feedback
[00:18:03] feedback over the incident. Well, Well, let's talk to music journalist
[00:18:07] journalist John Earls. Thanks for for joining us, John. Just tell us
[00:18:10] us what you think of how Ed Sheeran Sheeran has got into this situation.
[00:18:14] situation. Well, I mean, it's a very very complicated situation. It's
[00:18:17] It's very messy. And I think it looks looks like it's only going to get get messier for the foreseeable for
[00:18:21] for the moment because Ed, bad crisis
[00:18:25] crisis management for one thing is is that first of all, once Macklemore
[00:18:29] Macklemore had been dropped, it was was Macklemore that made the initial initial statement. Then Robert Kraft
[00:18:33] Kraft made a statement. It was only only then that Ed Sheeran put his
[00:18:36] his point of view across, and he he should have been really across across it from the start and saying,
[00:18:39] saying, this is what's happened. happened. This is what I'd like to to happen going forward. But he's
[00:18:43] he's being seen as reactive and proactive. proactive. And again, overnight it
[00:18:47] it was initially Macklemore that that made the donation. Then Robert
[00:18:49] Robert Kraft said that him and Ed Ed were making donations as well.
[00:18:53] well. And again, Ed's been silent silent on that side of things so
[00:18:56] so far. So it just looks like Ed
[00:18:58] Ed doesn't really know how to react react to this situation really. I
[00:19:01] I mean, since the news broke, Ed Ed Sheeran has has made it clear
[00:19:04] clear that this wasn't his decision decision to drop Macklemore. But
[00:19:07] But I mean, is it reasonable for
[00:19:09] for him to expect that his music,
[00:19:12] music, his whole persona can stay
[00:19:14] stay completely apolitical? Not from from here on in. I mean, having been
[00:19:18] been caught up in this situation, situation, it's clear that he needs
[00:19:21] needs to be more political going going forward, or at least to kind
[00:19:24] kind of explain his own views better. better. Because having said that,
[00:19:28] that, he's apolitical. And, you know, know, certainly people don't go to
[00:19:30] to an Ed Sheeran concert expecting expecting political statements. You
[00:19:33] You know, he's been a very escapist
[00:19:36] escapist artist for his career. But But what I can't get my head around around is why he'd invite Macklemore
[00:19:40] Macklemore to be a support act in in the first place, because Macklemore
[00:19:43] Macklemore and Ed have both said said they've been friends for a long
[00:19:46] long time, and Ed would have known known what kind of artist Macklemore
[00:19:49] Macklemore is now. Macklemore has has become more political in the
[00:19:51] the last 2 or 3 years. So a statement statement like that from Macklemore
[00:19:54] Macklemore was always on the agenda, agenda, really. And I think it's
[00:19:57] it's strange that Ed didn't see that that coming. Right. So you say that
[00:20:01] that something like this should have have been foreseeable just for having
[00:20:04] having Macklemore to be part of the the performance and, and just how
[00:20:08] how does Ed Sheeran go forward from from this? How does he emerge from
[00:20:12] from this in the best possible way?
[00:20:14] way? Can he. I think he's been I
[00:20:16] I think his career has been significantly
[00:20:19] significantly damaged by by by what's what's happened here where he goes
[00:20:23] goes forward really, I think he kind kind of needs to pick a side because
[00:20:27] because having had it's not just just Macklemore. Two of the other other support acts, Aaron Rowe and
[00:20:31] and Finneas were also quite political political themselves. So if it wasn't
[00:20:34] wasn't going to be Macklemore, it it could well have been one of those those two that had made would make
[00:20:38] make a similar comment to Macklemore Macklemore through Palestine chance.
[00:20:41] chance. So it looked like it was was kind of wanting to get a little
[00:20:45] little bit more political in his his performances without being political
[00:20:48] political himself on stage, if that that makes sense. So I think he needs
[00:20:51] needs to really commit and I think think he looks out of touch at the
[00:20:55] the moment because he didn't see see this coming when he really should
[00:20:58] should have done he should have seen seen that people want singer songwriters
[00:21:02] songwriters to be more political political generally now, and that that he's been kind of caught out
[00:21:05] out by this. So where he goes from from here, my best guess is that
[00:21:09] that he becomes a little bit more more of an activist than he had been
[00:21:13] been for his career before. John, John, thanks very much for your thoughts.
[00:21:16] thoughts. That is music journalist
[00:21:18] journalist John Earls. You're with
[00:21:21] with BBC News. MUSIC
[00:21:33] I know this might sound weird,
[00:21:36] but I've been obsessed with the oldest
[00:21:37] oldest person in the world for
[00:21:43] years. Meet adventurous, Brooklyn Brooklyn based, Oscar nominated filmmaker
[00:21:46] filmmaker Sam Green. Since 2015, 2015, he's been travelling the world,
[00:21:50] world, chronicling the forever changing changing holders of the title of
[00:21:53] of oldest person in the world. Its
[00:21:55] Its survey has included Kane Tanaka Tanaka in Japan, who held the title
[00:21:59] title for four years. And then there's
[00:22:02] there's the oldest person ever, Jeanne
[00:22:04] Jeanne Louise Calment, who when she
[00:22:06] she died in 1997, was 122 years old.
[00:22:08] old. In her later years she recorded recorded a rap album, the thing I
[00:22:12] I liked about the film Sam Green's Green's investigation of these very
[00:22:15] very senior citizens has become a a lifelong project. A documentary
[00:22:19] documentary based on his survey so so far has just been released. His
[00:22:23] His long been fascinated by why the
[00:22:25] the news media and the public are
[00:22:27] are so interested in the title holder holder of the oldest person in the
[00:22:31] the world. To this day, I still don't
[00:22:33] don't fully understand it. Is this
[00:22:35] this a fear of death? Is this a fear
[00:22:38] fear of fate or a you know, one of
[00:22:41] of those things like with the car
[00:22:42] car crash where you can't look away
[00:22:45] away but you don't want to look at at it? In making his documentary,
[00:22:49] documentary, Sam Green found there there was nearly always a desire desire on the part of others to find
[00:22:52] find out if there's a secret to longevity.
[00:22:55] longevity. The elderly people, he he observed, had all kinds of answers
[00:22:58] answers for why they'd led a long long life. One woman stated she'd
[00:23:02] she'd live for a long time because because she'd stayed away from men.
[00:23:05] men. She also said her secret was was eating three raw eggs a day.
[00:23:09] day. Two, you know, so it's like like the media descends on these
[00:23:12] these people. Everybody asks them them what their secret is and they
[00:23:16] they say something and everybody everybody runs with that. This documentary
[00:23:19] documentary often shows that other other people, the outside world is
[00:23:22] is often much more intrigued by the the oldest person in the world than
[00:23:26] than the subjects who hold that title. title. But this film isn't just about
[00:23:30] about the very old. It's also about about life and death and events in
[00:23:34] in the filmmaker's own life the birth birth of a son and his own confrontation
[00:23:38] confrontation with a life threatening threatening illness. These things things started to creep into the
[00:23:42] the movie, so over time it becomes
[00:23:44] becomes a larger meditation, I hope,
[00:23:47] hope, about time and the mysteries mysteries of being alive and fate
[00:23:51] fate and all these big questions
[00:23:53] questions that we ask ourselves.
[00:23:56] ourselves. The last person I interviewed, interviewed, a Spanish woman named
[00:23:59] named Maria Branyas, she was very very funny. She even was making fun
[00:24:03] fun of me, which I love. But in.
[00:24:05] in. At a moment in the interview
[00:24:07] interview she said, you are
[00:24:11] young. I know so Java Sea. Now is is the time to do good works. But
[00:24:14] But she was saying is you're young
[00:24:17] young and you have time, so use it.
[00:24:18] it. And I think that's a beautiful
[00:24:24] beautiful thing to appreciate. Over
[00:24:26] Over the last ten years, Sam Green Green has met many of those who've
[00:24:29] who've held the title of oldest person person in the world. But there's
[00:24:33] there's been one holdout the current
[00:24:35] current title holder, 117-year-old 117-year-old Ethel Caterham, who
[00:24:38] who lives in Surrey just outside
[00:24:40] outside London. She was born in Edwardian
[00:24:42] Edwardian times. She is the first
[00:24:44] first person in ten years who has
[00:24:48] has rebuffed my overtures. But she she did let King Charles visit her,
[00:24:51] her, didn't she? When I saw a video
[00:24:53] video of her in King Charles and
[00:24:56] and I thought, Charles, not me. You
[00:24:59] You know she's British. She's the
[00:25:00] the last Edwardian. So I guess she
[00:25:04] she feels some allegiance to the the King. But you know, come on. on. I've been doing this for ten
[00:25:07] ten years. Even though this documentary documentary focuses on the very old
[00:25:11] old and very fragile, it makes the the point that there is much to learn
[00:25:15] learn from observing them and from from the filmmaker himself about
[00:25:18] about what it means to live a thoughtful
[00:25:20] thoughtful life. It is an unexpectedly
[00:25:23] unexpectedly life affirming film.
[00:29:07] MUSIC
[00:29:17] What new industries are created. Because what we've seen seen throughout history is new industries
[00:29:21] industries are created and it's that that process that actually opens
[00:29:24] opens new doors. That was the that
[00:29:26] that was the mandate from Prime Minister Minister Starmer. He wants the UK
[00:29:29] UK to be an AI superpower. He recognises
[00:29:33] recognises that the ingredients are
[00:29:34] are all right here. AI is real AI
[00:29:37] AI and total pay off just like cars cars in total AI and total pay off just like cars in total cars in total paid off TV and total
[00:29:41] total paid off. But most people involved
[00:29:43] involved and didn't do well. The
[00:29:46] The revolutionary you know time upon upon us and I think, you know all
[00:29:49] all industries will be adopting AI
[00:29:50] AI in some shape or form. MUSIC
[00:30:12] Live from London. This is BBC
[00:30:15] News. The King issues an unusually unusually pointed response after
[00:30:18] after Earl Spencer, Princess Diana's Diana's brother, makes fresh claims
[00:30:21] claims about him in his new book
[00:30:24] book Microsoft's head of AI tells tells the BBC his competitors approach
[00:30:27] approach to training their models models could have a disastrous impact
[00:30:30] impact on the wellbeing of humanity.
[00:30:34] humanity. European Commission President President Ursula von humanity. European Commission President Ursula von President Ursula von der Leyen moves moves ahead with plans to ban social
[00:30:38] social media for under 13, saying
[00:30:39] saying these apps are depriving children children of their childhood. The
[00:30:43] The Bank of England is expected to to hold interest rates in the face
[00:30:47] face of rising prices, as the US
[00:30:50] US hikes, borrowing costs. Russia
[00:30:52] Russia heads to the polls for parliamentary parliamentary elections, the first
[00:30:56] first since parliamentary elections, the first since first since its full-scale invasion invasion of Ukraine. And is there there a