BBCNEWS — BBC World News America
20260917 220000 UTC
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[00:00:00] Absolutely not, Chancellor. I do do not think it is a moral thing thing for you to do. The system as
[00:00:03] as it's now evolved is completely completely indefensible. AI is going
[00:00:06] going to mean that some jobs do disappear. disappear. Will it be Harris or will
[00:00:10] will it be Trump? The Democrats messed messed it up. Well we lost. So we
[00:00:14] we have to not upset Donald Trump. Trump. We have to be an ally to Donald
[00:00:17] Donald Trump. An ally. Does that that mean. Allies don't betray. Our
[00:00:21] Our relationship with the United United States is not one of mutual
[00:00:24] mutual affection. It's a deal. We
[00:00:26] We still. Have a special relationship. relationship. Well, it's not that
[00:00:29] that special, is it? If you impose impose 10% tariffs. President Trump
[00:00:32] Trump probably thinks that we in in Canada will cave in. We are going
[00:00:35] going to stand up to a bully. We're We're not going to back down. Come
[00:00:39] Come President Trump trust President President Putin. Well, they do have
[00:00:42] have trust already. He would wipe
[00:00:45] wipe out an entire civilisation of
[00:00:47] of people. That is insanity. There's
[00:00:51] There's a white flash. You saw every
[00:00:56] every bone, every bloodline, every every sinew going through your hands
[00:00:59] hands with your eyes shut. It's so. so. Shocking that that happened.
[00:01:03] happened. Do you think you made life life worse for Joe Biden? Of course
[00:01:07] course I did. That's what addiction addiction does. We're known throughout
[00:01:11] throughout the world as Post Office
[00:01:13] Office victims. We are now being
[00:01:16] being revictimized. It's difficult. difficult. The dinghy was far. We
[00:01:20] We live in a society that in many
[00:01:23] many cases emboldens misogyny. They
[00:01:29] They describe themselves as Epstein
[00:01:32] Epstein survivors. Even my smile smile is different. I don't smile
[00:01:35] smile the same way any more. I had
[00:01:36] had no idea what was about to happen
[00:01:39] happen to me. It's normal. Girl has
[00:01:44] has taken down a prince. And lift.
[00:01:48] lift. Off. I called Houston and I
[00:01:51] I said, I think we've just gone into
[00:01:53] into sci-fi. It's hard to describe describe what we were actually seeing.
[00:01:56] seeing. It was so amazing. That is
[00:02:00] is it from Newsnight. That's your. your. News night. Good night. Good
[00:02:02] Good night. Two. One. Way up to a.
[00:02:13] a. MUSIC
[00:02:18] Sumi Somaskanda in Washington. And this is BBC World News America.
[00:02:22] America. Possible war crimes by the the US. That is the verdict of a
[00:02:25] a UN panel investigating two deadly deadly strikes in Iran from February.
[00:02:29] February. The US rejects the report. report. President Trump says the
[00:02:33] the US is making major progress towards towards opening its first permanent
[00:02:36] permanent army base in Poland, calling calling it an historic step for both
[00:02:39] both countries. And King Charles Charles urges leading tech bosses
[00:02:43] bosses developing AI to protect humanity humanity as he warns of existential
[00:02:47] existential dangers. Those who have
[00:02:50] have created these technologies are
[00:02:52] are now increasingly warning that
[00:02:55] that AI risks developing darker capacities,
[00:02:58] capacities, perhaps even to take
[00:03:01] take life.
[00:03:12] Welcome to World News America.
[00:03:14] The US Israel war with Iran may be be at a stalemate, but now there
[00:03:17] there is fallout from the height height of the conflict. UN investigators
[00:03:21] investigators say there are reasonable reasonable grounds to believe that that the US carried out war crimes
[00:03:25] crimes in the early days of its war
[00:03:26] war on Iran, the UN s independent independent international fact finding
[00:03:30] finding mission on Iran found that that the US may have, quote, committed
[00:03:33] committed the war crime of launching launching an indiscriminate attack
[00:03:36] attack resulting in loss of life life or injury to civilians or damage
[00:03:40] damage to civilian objects. The report,
[00:03:42] report, submitted to the UN Human Human Rights Council, pointed to
[00:03:45] to two deadly missile strikes in in February, one on a primary school
[00:03:49] school in Minab and another that that hit a sports complex in Lamerd.
[00:03:52] Lamerd. It says at least 178 civilians
[00:03:55] civilians were killed in those two two attacks. The State Department
[00:03:58] Department said it does not give give credibility to findings from from the report and that the protection
[00:04:02] protection of civilians is of the the utmost importance to the US now,
[00:04:06] now, the US previously said it is is investigating that strike and
[00:04:09] and denies the raid on the UN.. Experts Experts also found Iranian authorities
[00:04:13] authorities committed crimes against against humanity during a crackdown
[00:04:16] crackdown on mass anti-government
[00:04:19] anti-government protests in 2025 2025 and into 2026. Our State Department
[00:04:23] Department correspondent Tom Bateman Bateman has more. This was two incidents incidents on day one of the war.
[00:04:27] war. The strike on the school in in Minab and also on a sports complex
[00:04:31] complex in Lamerd in Iran. Now the
[00:04:33] the report goes through the evidence evidence that on the school strike
[00:04:37] strike that the US., it believes believes was using outdated targeting. targeting. We've heard quite a lot
[00:04:40] lot about this, and it says because because of that, in the words of
[00:04:44] of the fact finders, this was more more than mere negligence. They say
[00:04:48] say that this was reckless. And because because of that, the Americans either
[00:04:51] either knew or should have known known that this was no longer a military
[00:04:54] military complex, that it was actually actually a school. And therefore therefore it says there's reasonable
[00:04:58] reasonable grounds to say that this this was a war crime committed by
[00:05:01] by the Americans. Similarly with with Lamerd, it calls this an indiscriminate
[00:05:04] indiscriminate attack and also reasonable reasonable grounds to say that this
[00:05:08] this is a war crime. So, you know, know, a very strong finding. The
[00:05:12] The State Department completely rejecting
[00:05:14] rejecting it. They say that the Human
[00:05:17] Human Rights Committee Commission Commission at the United Nations, Nations, which appoints this fact
[00:05:21] fact finding mission, is anti-American. anti-American. They say the report
[00:05:24] report is not credible. Now, amid amid the ongoing war in the Middle
[00:05:27] Middle East, Iran's delegation will will be allowed to enter the US next
[00:05:31] next week for the United Nations Nations General Assembly. That's That's according to a State Department
[00:05:34] Department spokesperson. However, However, two Palestinian sources
[00:05:37] sources tell the BBC the US denied denied an entry visa to Palestinian
[00:05:41] Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas Abbas for the assembly for the second second year in a row. The US had
[00:05:45] had recently renewed sanctions against against Palestinian officials, without
[00:05:48] without naming Abbas, accusing them them of failing to live up to peace
[00:05:52] peace process commitments. The US US accused the Palestinian Authority
[00:05:55] Authority of glorifying terrorism terrorism and attempting to internationalise
[00:05:59] internationalise the Israeli-Palestinian Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Palestinian Palestinian officials reject those
[00:06:02] those claims, calling the visa sanctions sanctions an unjustified measure.
[00:06:06] measure. Abbas will instead make make a video address to the annual
[00:06:09] annual UN gathering in New York City.
[00:06:11] City. Let's talk about all of the the latest news with Jennifer DeVito,
[00:06:14] DeVito, a former top State Department Department official for the Middle
[00:06:17] Middle East. She's currently a senior senior adviser at the Cohen Group,
[00:06:20] Group, an international consulting consulting group. Jennifer, thank thank you so much for joining us.
[00:06:23] us. I first want to start with the
[00:06:26] the UN fact finding that we mentioned mentioned about those US strikes
[00:06:29] strikes in the early days of the
[00:06:31] the war. What do you make of those
[00:06:34] those findings? So this is really
[00:06:36] really damaging for US credibility. credibility. It is true that this
[00:06:40] this is not a criminal finding, but but nonetheless, this really damages,
[00:06:43] damages, I think, US credibility credibility and increases the urgency
[00:06:47] urgency of the United States conducting conducting a real investigation into
[00:06:50] into this. Initially, the Department Department of War did acknowledge
[00:06:54] acknowledge that it had found preliminarily preliminarily that the United States
[00:06:57] States was probably responsible for for this strike. But we've heard
[00:07:00] heard very little since. And I think think what is especially concerning
[00:07:03] concerning in this is that the Department Department of War Zone Inspector
[00:07:07] Inspector General has determined determined that the Department is
[00:07:10] is not able to carry out or as deprioritized
[00:07:14] deprioritized its responsibilities. responsibilities. Congressionally Congressionally mandated responsibilities responsibilities for civilian harm
[00:07:18] harm mitigation. So this raises a a lot of questions. I will just add
[00:07:22] add once again, a State Department Department official telling the BBC
[00:07:25] BBC that the Trump administration administration had formally withdrawn
[00:07:27] withdrawn from the UN Human Rights Rights Council, saying a consistent
[00:07:31] consistent failure was there to uphold uphold values as the council pushes
[00:07:34] pushes anti-American rhetoric, among among other points, I also want to
[00:07:38] to ask you in this context about about the UN General Assembly, which
[00:07:42] which will take place in New York York next week. And we mentioned mentioned that Palestinian sources
[00:07:45] sources have told the BBC that Mahmoud
[00:07:48] Mahmoud Abbas was denied a visa again.
[00:07:50] again. What impact do you think that
[00:07:52] that has? Well, I think that this
[00:07:55] this is very difficult to explain,
[00:07:57] explain, let alone defend at a moment
[00:08:00] moment when the Board of Peace, which which is a body that was put forward
[00:08:03] forward by the United States to bring
[00:08:09] bring reconstruction to Gaza, that that that Board of Peace envisions
[00:08:13] envisions eventually the Palestinian Palestinian Authority taking over over control of Gaza. And so the
[00:08:17] the Palestinian Authority and President President Abbas have to be partners
[00:08:20] partners with the United States in in order to achieve those outcomes.
[00:08:24] outcomes. It's especially baffling baffling given that we're now hearing
[00:08:27] hearing that the Iranian delegation delegation has been granted visas.
[00:08:30] visas. And so I think, you know, know, at the very least, this raises
[00:08:34] raises questions about the United United States headquarters agreement agreement when it comes to its hosting
[00:08:38] hosting of the UN General Assembly.
[00:08:40] Assembly. What about the US argument argument here that it is Mahmoud
[00:08:44] Mahmoud Abbas who has not been a a partner, saying that the Palestinian Palestinian Authority is pursuing
[00:08:47] pursuing legal action against Israel, Israel, that it is standing in the
[00:08:51] the way of seeking peace. So I think think you can make an argument that
[00:08:54] that both the Palestinian Authority Authority and Israel have been standing
[00:08:58] standing for decades in the way of
[00:08:59] of peace. That doesn't negate the
[00:09:02] the fact that the Palestinian Authority Authority is the single recognised
[00:09:06] recognised representative of the the Palestinian people internationally.
[00:09:09] internationally. And so when we have have disagreements and there is plenty
[00:09:12] plenty to criticise about the Palestinian Palestinian Authority, those are
[00:09:15] are best dealt with through dialogue. dialogue. And that is precisely what
[00:09:18] what the UN General Assembly sets sets out to do. Before we let you
[00:09:21] you go, Jennifer, I want to ask you you then more broadly about the war
[00:09:25] war in Iran. We are seeing this delegation delegation coming to the UN as you
[00:09:29] you mentioned a moment ago. But right right now it appears to be still
[00:09:32] still at a stalemate. Absolutely.
[00:09:34] Absolutely. And not just at a stalemate, stalemate, but in parallel to it,
[00:09:38] it, of course, has been the escalation
[00:09:41] escalation between Saudi Arabia and and Yemen as well. That is further
[00:09:44] further complicating things. And And I you know, there is still no
[00:09:48] no no resolution to this conflict conflict that doesn't come through through negotiation. And yet we still
[00:09:52] still seem to be an awful long ways
[00:09:54] ways away with both parties continuing
[00:09:56] continuing to, I think, try to increase
[00:09:58] increase their negotiating leverage. leverage. And in the meantime, we're
[00:10:02] we're going to continue, I think, think, for a long while to see these
[00:10:05] these cycles of escalation continue. continue. OK. Should make for some some very interesting conversations,
[00:10:09] conversations, certainly at the UN UN in New York. Jennifer, thank you
[00:10:11] you as always for joining us. Thank
[00:10:15] Thank you. President Trump says the the US is working to set up a new
[00:10:18] new military base in Poland on Truth Truth Social. The President said
[00:10:22] said major progress is being made made towards establishing a US Army
[00:10:25] Army base in Poland. If. If this this happens, the location will be
[00:10:29] be announced very soon. This will will be an historic step for our
[00:10:32] our great US Polish alliance. This This is despite concerns in Europe
[00:10:35] Europe that an ongoing US review review could actually drastically
[00:10:38] drastically reduce troop levels on
[00:10:40] on the continent. And this was the
[00:10:44] the scene in Poland earlier Thursday. Thursday. Air raid sirens after a
[00:10:47] a Russian attack near its border border with Ukraine. Two Polish airports
[00:10:51] airports were temporarily closed. closed. No Russian aircraft crossed
[00:10:54] crossed the border, but Poland's Poland's Prime Minister warned Thursday
[00:10:57] Thursday that Russia will likely likely step up its aggression in in the coming months against Poland
[00:11:01] Poland and other nations supporting supporting Ukraine. Meanwhile, Nato
[00:11:04] Nato Secretary General said Russia's Russia's drone strikes near Poland
[00:11:07] Poland are evidence of Russia's desperation. desperation. Mark Rutte was in Brighton
[00:11:10] Brighton meeting the Prime Minister Minister and Defence Secretary for
[00:11:12] for the first time. Here's our political
[00:11:17] political editor, Chris Mason. Eastern
[00:11:19] Eastern Poland this morning, sirens
[00:11:21] sirens blaring Russia's war in Ukraine
[00:11:25] Ukraine sounds near drone strikes
[00:11:26] strikes over the border far too close
[00:11:29] close for comfort. Is this yet another another example of a dangerous escalation
[00:11:33] escalation in this war? It's clearly
[00:11:35] clearly an example of increasingly
[00:11:38] increasingly reckless behaviour by by Russia and its president, but
[00:11:42] but also evidence of him being increasingly
[00:11:44] increasingly desperate. Should Nato
[00:11:46] Nato intercept Russian drones that that are over Ukrainian territory
[00:11:50] territory if they are approaching approaching a Nato border? There
[00:11:53] There is a limit to what I can go go into in a public interview, but
[00:11:56] but I can assure you we do everything everything to make sure that Nato
[00:11:59] Nato stays safe. Nato territory stays stays safe, that we can defend every
[00:12:03] every sounds. Like that's happening happening again. I can never get
[00:12:07] get into those operational details. details. I was told afterwards drones
[00:12:10] drones were not at least yet intercepted
[00:12:13] intercepted by Nato while still over over Ukraine. How worried are you?
[00:12:17] you? How worried should we all be
[00:12:19] be that Russia will attack or invade
[00:12:22] invade a Nato country in the coming
[00:12:24] coming years? If you're willing to to sacrifice 1.2 million of your
[00:12:28] your own people in this crazy, unprovoked
[00:12:30] unprovoked fight, let's not be naive naive about what Putin could do,
[00:12:34] do, but we are stronger. I mean, mean, in. Other words, it could happen. happen. It could happen in the coming
[00:12:38] coming years. No, I don't think so. so. Because we are strong. So strong
[00:12:41] strong that he will not try. But But we have to make sure of is that
[00:12:43] that we are as strong in two, three, three, five years from now. You've
[00:12:47] You've been here meeting the Prime Prime Minister, the Defence Secretary,
[00:12:51] Secretary, the Foreign Secretary, Secretary, as you all know, the Chancellor, Chancellor, John Healey, the former
[00:12:54] former Defence Secretary, resigned resigned because he wasn't certain.
[00:12:57] certain. No, he didn't think the the previous government would get
[00:13:00] get to 3% of national income on defence
[00:13:03] defence by 2030, and said that was was essential. The new government
[00:13:06] government hasn't yet explicitly explicitly committed to that. In In the conversations you've just
[00:13:10] just come from, are you confident confident they're going to manage
[00:13:12] manage that? I'm totally confident confident about what this government
[00:13:15] government wants to do. That is to
[00:13:18] to reach the 3.5 and 2035. Also understanding understanding that cannot be that
[00:13:21] that you stick to one, 2.6, 2.7 now
[00:13:23] now and then in one go in 2034, you
[00:13:26] you would go to 3.5. So you've long long been a sceptic about. A credible
[00:13:30] credible path. Yeah. Sounds like like they've not managed to be specific
[00:13:33] specific and reassure you that that that 3% target by 2030 is actually
[00:13:37] actually going to be met. I'm absolutely absolutely confident that when it
[00:13:40] it comes to the 3.5 they are there. there. I'm absolutely confident that
[00:13:43] that when it comes to the yearly yearly increments, they totally take
[00:13:46] take it and accept it that they have have to be there. What exactly the
[00:13:49] the pathway will be we will see next next year in the spending review. review. Secretary General, thank
[00:13:52] thank you. Thank you very much. Now
[00:13:56] Now three days of voting are getting getting under way in Russia's parliamentary
[00:14:00] parliamentary election, the first first since Russia's full-scale invasion invasion of Ukraine. Critics dismiss
[00:14:04] dismiss the vote as neither free free nor transparent, but the Kremlin
[00:14:07] Kremlin is expected to use it to to claim the country is united behind
[00:14:10] behind the policies of President President Putin. Our Russia editor,
[00:14:13] editor, Steve Rosenberg reports from
[00:14:15] from Moscow. In Russia. Ultimate
[00:14:20] Ultimate power lies here in the Kremlin.
[00:14:24] Kremlin. But across the road there there is a parliament and it's election
[00:14:27] election time. So what is a parliamentary
[00:14:30] parliamentary election like now in
[00:14:32] in Putin's Russia? Different. At
[00:14:37] At this TV debate for candidates,
[00:14:39] candidates, the presenter came. The
[00:14:43] The candidates didn't. Come. And
[00:14:47] And this party political was more
[00:14:49] more X factor than exit poll. Mind
[00:14:54] Mind you in the last Parliament everyone everyone was singing from the same
[00:14:57] same hymn sheet. Putin altogether.
[00:15:03] altogether. Now Russia, Putin victory
[00:15:06] victory chants the Speaker of the the House. All MPs, all parties are
[00:15:10] are expected to back the President
[00:15:12] President and the war in Ukraine.
[00:15:15] Ukraine. There has been some campaigning campaigning and a bread and biscuit
[00:15:19] biscuit factory near Moscow. We caught
[00:15:21] caught up with the communists at
[00:15:23] at times, though, the ten parties parties allowed on the ballot are
[00:15:27] are hard to tell apart. None of them
[00:15:29] them criticised the Kremlin or the
[00:15:32] the war. As the Communist leader
[00:15:35] leader Gennady Zyuganov tells me, me, all parties in the last Duma
[00:15:39] Duma voted unanimously for 170 laws
[00:15:43] laws in support of the special military
[00:15:45] military operation. Russia's political political system is often referred
[00:15:48] referred to as managed democracy, democracy, where the Kremlin does
[00:15:52] does the managing and the Kremlin Kremlin is likely to use this election
[00:15:55] election to claim that despite problems problems in the country, Russians
[00:15:59] Russians are united behind their
[00:16:01] their president and behind the war
[00:16:04] war in Ukraine. Grigory Grishin belongs
[00:16:07] belongs to the one party that is
[00:16:09] is publicly calling for peace. Yabloko
[00:16:13] Yabloko for freedom. Peace for a
[00:16:15] a ceasefire, he says for a Russia
[00:16:17] Russia free from political repressions.
[00:16:19] repressions. Yabloko was on the ballot
[00:16:22] ballot until the Supreme Court removed
[00:16:24] removed it from the party list. Some
[00:16:28] Some of its candidates, including including Grigory, are still competing
[00:16:32] competing in individual constituencies. constituencies. But in the run up
[00:16:35] up to the election, many of these these candidates have had problems
[00:16:39] problems with the police and the
[00:16:40] the courts, and some have been barred.
[00:16:44] barred. Gregory was questioned by
[00:16:45] by police, but he's still in the
[00:16:48] the race. The police. Are carrying
[00:16:50] carrying out a political order. The
[00:16:53] The demand for an end to the bloodshed bloodshed in Ukraine is very popular.
[00:16:57] popular. I think most people in Russia Russia now want peace and Yabloko
[00:17:01] Yabloko helped people express this. this. That's why it's been excluded
[00:17:04] excluded from the party lists and
[00:17:07] and why individual candidates are
[00:17:09] are being barred. 50 miles from Moscow
[00:17:13] Moscow in Dmitrov, there's little little sign of an election, but there
[00:17:16] there are signs of the war. A new
[00:17:19] new memorial to people from the town town who've been killed fighting
[00:17:23] fighting in Ukraine. And the war
[00:17:25] war is front and centre of people's
[00:17:28] people's minds. Of course we feel feel it, says Olga, whose son in
[00:17:32] in law is fighting in Ukraine. But
[00:17:34] But elections can't affect what happens
[00:17:37] happens there. I'd like our country country to be peaceful, Paulina tells
[00:17:41] tells me, so we don't have to worry worry that drones will fall in front
[00:17:45] front of us. This election is unlikely
[00:17:47] unlikely to deliver that in Russia.
[00:17:49] Russia. It's the Kremlin that decides
[00:17:51] decides on war and peace. Steve Rosenberg,
[00:17:55] Rosenberg, BBC News, Moscow. Still
[00:17:59] Still to come on world news America America Canada's Prime Minister hails
[00:18:02] hails a prospective associate membership membership with the EU while rejecting
[00:18:06] rejecting US criticism of the alliance. alliance. That's after a short break
[00:18:09] break around the world and across across the UK.
[00:19:11] truth, trust and fake news on BBC
[00:19:14] BBC News. Welcome back to BBC News.
[00:19:22] News. Canadian Prime Minister Mark Mark Carney said Canada and Europe Europe are stronger together. In
[00:19:26] In an address to the European Parliament. Parliament. It comes one day after
[00:19:30] after European Commission President President Ursula von der Leyen announced announced plans to make Canada the
[00:19:34] the first associate member of the the European Union. Now welcoming
[00:19:37] welcoming the invitation, Mr Carney Carney said the EU and Canada would
[00:19:40] would create a beacon for other democracies. democracies. The majority of EU governments
[00:19:43] governments support closer ties with with Canada, but some are questioning
[00:19:46] questioning the practicality of associate associate member status. It could
[00:19:49] could take years for the bloc to to implement such a label. US President
[00:19:52] President Trump on Wednesday suggested suggested that the EU allowing Canada Canada to become an associate member
[00:19:56] member could be a hostile act towards towards the US., he said any bad
[00:20:00] bad intention would be met with, with, quote, very heavy tariffs on
[00:20:03] on European goods. Mr Carney said said on Thursday that no one other
[00:20:06] other than Canada can decide who who it strikes international agreements
[00:20:09] agreements with. Let's speak now now to Stephane Dion, a diplomat
[00:20:12] diplomat in residence at the University University of Montreal, former special
[00:20:15] special envoy to Europe and ambassador ambassador to Germany and France.
[00:20:19] France. Ambassador, it's very good good to have you with us on the programme. programme. And I want to ask you
[00:20:22] you about what we heard from Prime Prime Minister Carney. He said that
[00:20:25] that closer ties with the EU would would ensure that no country could
[00:20:28] could control Canada's markets or or undermine its sovereignty. Do
[00:20:31] Do you agree with that? Yes, it's
[00:20:34] it's certainly the goal in Canada Canada to have a normal relationship
[00:20:38] relationship with the US., something something we don't have since a couple couple of years because of President
[00:20:42] President Trump. And to be open to to the world as a trading nation,
[00:20:45] nation, as a country that has a big big role to play in the world. And
[00:20:48] And that means that we are much closer
[00:20:51] closer with the EU, with Europe. Europe. The EU is the second biggest
[00:20:55] biggest economy of the world. We We are very close to them. We have have a strong partnership with them
[00:20:59] them and we want that to be stronger
[00:21:01] stronger than ever. I spoke to a
[00:21:03] a Conservative MP from Canada yesterday yesterday who said he doesn't want
[00:21:07] want to see Canada trading one difficult difficult relationship with another,
[00:21:11] another, the EU being bureaucratic bureaucratic and perhaps adding new new complications for Canada. What
[00:21:15] What do you think of that? Well,
[00:21:18] Well, it's because I think from the
[00:21:22] the lion, president, from the Alliance,
[00:21:23] Alliance, she used the expression
[00:21:26] expression associate member and the
[00:21:28] the word member looks like if Canada
[00:21:30] Canada was now the 28th country of
[00:21:34] of the EU and there is no appetite
[00:21:36] appetite in Canada to transfer part
[00:21:39] part of our sovereignty to Brussels,
[00:21:42] Brussels, and there is no interest
[00:21:43] interest in Europe to give to a country
[00:21:46] country a full membership without without the obligations that come
[00:21:49] come with it. Regarding a financial
[00:21:54] financial contribution or alignment alignment of regulations and so on.
[00:21:56] on. So it's not what we are talking
[00:21:58] talking about. I think this expression
[00:22:01] expression associate member created created this confusion. The expression
[00:22:04] expression the Prime Minister is
[00:22:05] is using is more to have a strongest
[00:22:10] strongest alliance, a unique alliance, alliance, the country with which
[00:22:13] which the EU will have the strongest
[00:22:16] strongest alliance outside Europe Europe will be Canada. That's the
[00:22:18] the goal. What do you think of President President Trump's response to all
[00:22:21] all of this, threatening more tariffs
[00:22:23] tariffs on the EU and saying that that anything that is a closer alliance
[00:22:27] alliance against the US would be be considered a hostile act? Well,
[00:22:30] Well, it's only in the mind of Donald
[00:22:32] Donald Trump. It doesn't make sense.
[00:22:35] sense. Canada is a trading nation.
[00:22:37] nation. We need to be in strong connection connection with the world. And in
[00:22:41] in doing so, we are a better partner
[00:22:42] partner for the US that if we were
[00:22:45] were isolated. So only him may think
[00:22:46] think this way and we will not be be intimidated by Donald Trump. We
[00:22:50] We have shown that the more he's he's speaking this way, the more
[00:22:53] more Canadians are resolute to have have an interdependent policy. When
[00:22:57] When Donald Trump is negotiating negotiating with the UK, with the
[00:23:00] the EU, with China, with India, it
[00:23:03] it doesn't fold. Ottawa to have the
[00:23:06] the OK of Ottawa as if we had a veto
[00:23:09] veto on this policy. So it will be be the same for us. Canada is a free
[00:23:13] free country. We need to strengthen strengthen our relationship relationship
[00:23:16] relationship with the EU for the
[00:23:18] the long haul. Even when Donald Trump
[00:23:21] Trump will not be there any more. more. And that will have hopefully
[00:23:23] hopefully a normal president in the the White House. Canada will have
[00:23:26] have an interest in not of its eggs
[00:23:30] eggs in the same basket and to have have strong relationship with the
[00:23:33] the UK, with the EU, with Asia, with
[00:23:35] with Latin America and so on. OK.
[00:23:39] OK. Stephane Dion, former special special envoy to Europe and ambassador
[00:23:42] ambassador to Germany and France, France, thank you so much for joining
[00:23:45] joining us on the programme today. today. Well, it's my pleasure. Thank
[00:23:48] Thank you so much. Let's turn now
[00:23:51] now to the UK., where King Charles Charles is warning tech leaders about
[00:23:55] about the existential dangers of of artificial intelligence. The monarch
[00:23:58] monarch called for more oversight oversight on AI, saying that it could
[00:24:01] could develop a darker capabilities. capabilities. He made those comments comments on Thursday during a summit
[00:24:04] summit in Scotland to address mounting mounting security concerns posed
[00:24:08] posed by the technology and tech
[00:24:09] tech giants, including Nvidia, DeepMind,
[00:24:12] DeepMind, OpenAI and Anthropic were were together for the first time
[00:24:15] time since industry leaders called called for a co-ordinated slowdown
[00:24:18] slowdown in AI development. Our correspondent
[00:24:19] correspondent Shiona McCallum has
[00:24:23] has more. Not just another royal
[00:24:25] royal engagement for the King he he was hosting Jensen Huang, the
[00:24:29] the boss of one of the world's most
[00:24:31] most valuable companies, Nvidia and
[00:24:33] and Sir Demis Hassabis, the co-founder co-founder of Google DeepMind, along
[00:24:36] along with some of the world's most
[00:24:38] most influential voices on AI. And And as soon as pleasantries were
[00:24:42] were over, it was a stark warning.
[00:24:44] warning. There seems urgency in adequately
[00:24:48] adequately considering the existential
[00:24:49] existential dangers of such technologies technologies falling into the wrong
[00:24:53] wrong hands. The King addressed an
[00:24:56] an audience that included Tino Cuellar Cuellar from Anthropic, Sarah Friar
[00:24:59] Friar from OpenAI and Professor Chu
[00:25:02] Chu Lang from Shanghai University University in China. A Chinese presence
[00:25:05] presence in the room is significant, significant, too, with President
[00:25:09] President Trump framing AI as a race. race. America must win. The summit
[00:25:12] summit has been in the royal diary diary for six months, but the timing
[00:25:16] timing of it has become part of the
[00:25:18] the story. Last week, a former Anthropic Anthropic researcher said some of
[00:25:22] of the people building AI believe believe that it could kill us all
[00:25:25] all by the end of the decade. The
[00:25:27] The King has asked you here to give give reassurances that this technology
[00:25:31] technology won't harm humanity. Can
[00:25:32] Can you give those reassurances?
[00:25:36] reassurances? It is the responsibility responsibility of the AI companies
[00:25:40] companies ourselves to develop the the technology safely and to properly
[00:25:44] properly test it. As we move from
[00:25:46] from labs to product development. development. The companies have to
[00:25:50] to become much more rigorous in testing.
[00:25:53] testing. But other chief execs are
[00:25:54] are less optimistic. I think that
[00:25:57] that if we all create AI's that are
[00:26:00] are able to act autonomously, that
[00:26:01] that can define their own objectives,
[00:26:04] objectives, that can earn money, money, that can own assets, that
[00:26:08] that could run businesses. We're
[00:26:10] We're essentially ceding a new silicon silicon species, which will no doubt
[00:26:14] doubt compete with us for resources, resources, no matter how much it
[00:26:18] it cares about humanity and loves loves us. Warnings like that mean
[00:26:21] mean governments are under pressure pressure to act. The main thing I
[00:26:24] I want to assure everyone listening listening and watching this is that that the British government has been
[00:26:28] been focused on it. We have some some of the best capability in testing,
[00:26:32] testing, understanding risks and and mitigating them. We have to take take it seriously. That's exactly
[00:26:35] exactly what we're doing. This debate debate is not only about safety and
[00:26:39] and jobs. The data centres powering
[00:26:42] powering AI require enormous amounts amounts of electricity and water,
[00:26:45] water, placing the tech's environmental environmental issues at the heart
[00:26:48] heart of a cause. The King has championed
[00:26:52] championed for decades the King cannot cannot regulate artificial intelligence,
[00:26:55] intelligence, but what he can do do is use his convening power to
[00:26:59] to get these rivals round the table. table. The question is now will there
[00:27:03] there be anything concrete produced produced from these private discussions
[00:27:06] discussions here at Dumfries House?
[00:27:09] House? This technology appears to to be advancing far faster than diplomacy
[00:27:13] diplomacy is right now. But to gain gain public trust in AI, it will
[00:27:16] will need something more than conversation.
[00:27:19] conversation. Shiona McCallum BBC
[00:27:21] BBC News Dumfries House. OK, still
[00:27:24] still to come on world news America.
[00:27:26] America. AI regulation is also dominating
[00:27:28] dominating discussion here in Washington Washington as lawmakers on both sides
[00:27:32] sides of the aisle express concern concern over AI safety. We'll be
[00:27:34] be talking about that with our politics politics panel. Plus, the European
[00:27:38] European Union outlines plans to to ban social media for children
[00:27:41] children under the age of 13. We'll We'll be hearing from an expert on
[00:27:44] on that and just what that regulation regulation could mean for those big
[00:27:47] big social media companies. Stay Stay tuned here on World News America.
[00:27:50] America. We're back in just a few
[00:27:52] few moments. Thank you for watching.
[00:31:40] truth, trust and fake news on BBC
[00:31:43] BBC News. Here at BBC Verify we use
[00:31:50] use forensic investigative techniques techniques and tools to fact check
[00:31:53] check stories, verify information information and counter disinformation
[00:31:56] disinformation using data analysis analysis and the latest technology, technology, our journalists examine
[00:32:00] examine the evidence and get to the the facts. Watch our BBC Verify reports
[00:32:03] reports on the BBC News channel or
[00:32:04] or go online to find out more. MUSIC
[00:32:22] Welcome back to World News America. Now, warnings by tech leaders
[00:32:25] leaders about the potential harm harm of artificial intelligence are
[00:32:28] are fuelling debate among US lawmakers lawmakers over how to regulate the
[00:32:31] the technology. President Trump rejected rejected calls for greater oversight
[00:32:35] oversight of AI and is backed by by some Republican members of Congress.
[00:32:38] Congress. But other Republican representatives, representatives, including Senator
[00:32:41] Senator John Kennedy, have joined joined Democrats in calling for urgent
[00:32:44] urgent safety measures like an AI
[00:32:46] AI kill switch. Well, Democratic Democratic Congressman Don Beyer Beyer co-chairs the congressional
[00:32:50] congressional AI caucus, and he gave gave us his take on the US president's
[00:32:54] president's claim that America risks risks losing its AI lead to China.
[00:32:57] China. I totally disagree with that. that. We you know, if the race with
[00:33:01] with China is a race to see who loses loses control first, that's not a
[00:33:04] a race that we want to win. We also also recognise that China actually
[00:33:08] actually has many more checks and and balances on its AI than we do.
[00:33:11] do. You know, they're a dictatorship.
[00:33:13] dictatorship. They're a fragile tyranny. tyranny. So the Chinese Communist
[00:33:17] Communist Party can't afford to lose lose control. We're a democracy.
[00:33:20] democracy. So we're sort of a mess
[00:33:22] mess all the time. So the race with
[00:33:25] with China, by the way, what that that does suggest is that when President
[00:33:28] President Trump meets with Mr XI,
[00:33:31] XI, that AI needs to be one of their their very first topics. This is
[00:33:34] is something ultimately that requires, requires, you know, the AI equivalent
[00:33:38] equivalent of a Geneva Convention. Convention. OK, let's discuss that that with my politics panel here
[00:33:42] here tonight. With me to my right right is Doug Farrar, former director
[00:33:46] director of public affairs at the the Federal Trade Commission. And
[00:33:48] And to my left, a Democratic strategist. strategist. Excuse me, Democratic
[00:33:51] Democratic strategist Doug Farrar Farrar and Sarah Chamberlain, president
[00:33:54] president and CEO of the Republican Republican Main Street Partnership.
[00:33:57] Partnership. Great to have you both both with us. And Doug, I'll start start with you. What did you make
[00:34:01] make of what Don Beyer said there, there, the congressman saying, well,
[00:34:04] well, if we're in a race with China China to see who loses control first,
[00:34:07] first, that's not a race we want want to be in. I think that's a smart
[00:34:09] smart way of framing it in some respects, respects, because China is often
[00:34:12] often used as the big bad wolf, right? right? The reason why we need to
[00:34:15] to go breakneck and we can't slow slow down. I think we all just need
[00:34:18] need to take a step back. And I'm I'm glad to see Congressman Beyer
[00:34:21] Beyer get engaged. AI isn't just
[00:34:24] just about you know the Hugging Face Face hack. AI isn't just about these
[00:34:27] these very high tech uses like vibe vibe coding. We have AI in schools.
[00:34:31] schools. We have AI in hospitals
[00:34:34] hospitals and in hospitals in particular. particular. They're driving up costs,
[00:34:38] costs, reducing coverage and making making people unhappy. And the people
[00:34:40] people getting rich off of that are are the AI companies. We have what
[00:34:43] what is basically a defective and
[00:34:45] and dangerous product, and it needs needs to be regulated using both
[00:34:48] both Congress, but also law and order order from the Trump administration administration and the enforcers.
[00:34:52] enforcers. Why not have the companies companies do that themselves? I mean,
[00:34:55] mean, how many times are they going going to self-regulate before we
[00:34:58] we realise that's not really a solution? solution? I mean, think about web
[00:35:01] web 2.0. You know, we have a long long history in this country of regulating
[00:35:05] regulating products that are either either really high capital expenditure
[00:35:08] expenditure and dangerous, like nuclear nuclear or aeroplanes or cars. We
[00:35:11] We should do that. We don't rely rely on car companies to self-regulate. self-regulate. We shouldn't rely
[00:35:14] rely on AI companies. It's not an an exceptional thing. It's a product.
[00:35:17] product. And if it's defective, they they should be sued. What do you you think, Sarah? I actually agree
[00:35:21] agree with that. And one of the members members of the Republican Main Street
[00:35:25] Street Partnership actually happens happens to be the co-chair of the
[00:35:28] the AI Jay Obernolte from California. California. And he's like, we need
[00:35:31] need to get our hands around this. this. We need to educate the House
[00:35:34] House members and Senate members members to try to do something to
[00:35:37] to rein this in. I think educating educating is a key term there because
[00:35:41] because there's a lot of scepticism scepticism besides those two members
[00:35:44] members that Congress really knows knows enough about this technology technology to be able to regulate
[00:35:48] regulate it effectively. What do do you think knows enough about it?
[00:35:50] it? Up until six months ago, some some of the members were calling
[00:35:54] calling for a one. So it's like, like, OK, this is a problem. So yes,
[00:35:57] yes, they have to be educated so so then they can do something to
[00:36:00] to rein it in and put some guardrails guardrails around it. But at the
[00:36:03] the end of the day, if President President Trump doesn't want regulation regulation from Congress, he's not
[00:36:07] not going to allow his Republican Republican members to move that forward,
[00:36:09] forward, will he? We'll see what what happens after the election. election. I think the election could
[00:36:13] could change a lot of things in Washington. Washington. Is it smart then, Doug,
[00:36:16] Doug, do you think, for Democrats Democrats to take the position of
[00:36:20] of being the ones to really raise raise the alarm bells here? Because
[00:36:23] Because at the same time, AI represents represents really important progress
[00:36:27] progress for the country and a competitive competitive edge, as President Trump Trump has said against China. I absolutely
[00:36:31] absolutely think it's wise politics. politics. Look, there are very few few things in this country that voters
[00:36:35] voters agree on being opposed to.
[00:36:37] to. AI is overwhelmingly bipartisan. bipartisan. And you hear people from
[00:36:41] from Barack Obama to Lina Khan to to others encouraging Democrats to
[00:36:44] to seize the moment. The question question is what are they going to
[00:36:47] to do? Yeah, that is indeed the question question I would ask. Do you think
[00:36:51] think that. I'll ask both of you. you. Do you think anything will realistically
[00:36:54] realistically get done in the coming coming months? I mean, if there was
[00:36:58] was one major incident where some
[00:37:00] some huge catastrophe occurred potentially, potentially, but with Trump right
[00:37:03] right now, it doesn't seem like he's he's really interested in it. And And the Republican Party is not going
[00:37:07] going to buck him on that. We have have to see if Democrats, if they
[00:37:10] they seize either one or both houses houses of Congress, can force some
[00:37:14] some legislation through and really really take this seriously. I agree
[00:37:17] agree with you without. A huge incident, incident, I don't see anything going
[00:37:20] going on until next year when Congress
[00:37:23] Congress reconvenes and we see who's who's in control. We'll have to put put a pin in that discussion and
[00:37:27] and bring you both back when that that happens. But there's another
[00:37:29] another topic I want to ask you both
[00:37:31] both about, which is a Republican Republican congresswoman Maria Elvira Elvira Salazar of Florida. She posted
[00:37:35] posted an interesting clip on social social media. Let's take a look at
[00:37:38] at it. Mr president, some of your your immigration enforcement efforts
[00:37:42] efforts have gone too far. In July,
[00:37:45] July, 50% of the 5000 people that that were detained had no criminal
[00:37:48] criminal record. Be careful what what your advisers are telling you you about immigration policies. The
[00:37:52] The same Hispanics who help you get
[00:37:53] get to the White House in 2024 feel
[00:37:56] feel betrayed today. You can be for for immigration, but Lincoln was
[00:37:59] was for slavery and Reagan was for for communism. I'm not talking about
[00:38:02] about giving them amnesty. I'm talking talking about giving them a dignified
[00:38:06] dignified life in this promised land.
[00:38:07] land. And only you can do that. Sir,
[00:38:11] Sir, that's a pretty big risk for for a sitting Republican congresswoman
[00:38:15] congresswoman to say, President Trump, Trump, you're getting this wrong. wrong. Are you surprised she did
[00:38:19] did this? Absolutely not. So she's she's a member of Main Street. I've I've had a lot of interaction with
[00:38:22] with her, know her very well. She She has been saying this for the
[00:38:25] the past two years. I mean, every
[00:38:27] every time she's in at at our headquarters, headquarters, she's talking to the
[00:38:31] the other members about it. Any White White House staff that comes in,
[00:38:34] in, any cabinet officials that come
[00:38:36] come in, she is driving this home.
[00:38:38] home. 70% of her district is Latino Latino and she's representing her
[00:38:41] her district. So that's why she did did it. And a lot of people agree
[00:38:45] agree with her, but that puts her. her. Directly at odds with members
[00:38:47] members of President Trump's administration administration like Stephen Miller,
[00:38:50] Miller, like some of the hardliners hardliners who say we have to go
[00:38:53] go after as many or have as many many arrests as possible. Well, she.
[00:38:57] she. Had the conversation directly directly with Stephen Miller. So
[00:39:00] So this is not a surprise to anyone anyone in the White House that she she did this. What do you think,
[00:39:04] think, Doug? Well, it's a surprise surprise to her voters. I mean, she she may be saying this behind the
[00:39:07] the scenes. I'm not invited to these these meetings, but she's voted three
[00:39:11] three times to fund Ice. She voted voted $170 billion in the triple
[00:39:15] triple B. That's beds. That's training
[00:39:18] training that's hiring. She voted voted $70 billion in reconciliation.
[00:39:22] reconciliation. And she voted to to unlock that money. When there
[00:39:25] there was a government shutdown. shutdown. And so look the votes speak
[00:39:28] speak for themselves. You know she she has not done one single thing
[00:39:31] thing in Congress to slow down Ice Ice or change any of this. And so
[00:39:35] so I think that this. Is what political political opportunism or. Absolutely
[00:39:38] Absolutely she that district was was won by President Trump by 21
[00:39:41] 21 votes. I think she's up by one one point maybe. And that's because
[00:39:44] because of the policies of the President President that she has voted to support
[00:39:47] support and the money she has voted voted to give to Ice. So. Well, she's
[00:39:51] she's not the only one. Sara, I want want to ask you about some of the the polling that we've seen the New
[00:39:55] New York Times Siena poll from earlier earlier this week showed that 52%
[00:39:57] 52% of people trusted Democrats over
[00:40:00] over Republicans on immigration. immigration. There was another AP
[00:40:03] AP NORC poll from a month ago. Only
[00:40:06] Only 39% of US adults approving of of his performance. The President's President's performance on immigration.
[00:40:09] immigration. You would think that that that would be raising some alarm alarm bells in the White House. Oh,
[00:40:13] Oh, it absolutely is. I mean, there's there's no doubt within the Republican
[00:40:16] Republican Party, the House and Senate
[00:40:18] Senate and the White House. The President
[00:40:21] President sticks to his guns with with Stephen Miller. And this is is what the President feels. But
[00:40:25] But a lot of the people felt that that they voted for the President
[00:40:28] President to shut down the border, border, which was a huge problem.
[00:40:31] problem. Obviously, when President President Biden was there, people people were just running across.
[00:40:34] across. We've shut that down and
[00:40:37] and let's get the criminals out of
[00:40:39] of the country. But going around around arresting, you know, women
[00:40:42] women dropping their kids off at at schools, that's becoming a little little too far. And that's what the
[00:40:46] the polling is showing. But why do do you think then President Trump
[00:40:49] Trump is not heeding that advice advice on the polling? Because he's he's getting these numbers as well.
[00:40:52] well. He is. But I think he actually actually agrees with Stephen Miller.
[00:40:54] Miller. I think that's. The situation situation we're in right now. What
[00:40:57] What do you think, Doug? It's not not clear he's getting good information. information. There's been coverage
[00:41:00] coverage of some of his aides, including including Natalie Harp, who the human human printer who's just handing
[00:41:04] handing him good news after time time after time. Look, immigration
[00:41:08] immigration has been central to his his entire pitch. This whole political
[00:41:11] political career. And he made it it unpopular because he created a
[00:41:15] a sense that a bunch of jackbooted jackbooted thugs are going around around arresting people willy-nilly.
[00:41:19] willy-nilly. Americans are getting getting shot in the streets, you you know, people driving their cars.
[00:41:23] cars. It's not a good look. And he he turned a Republican issue into
[00:41:26] into a Democratic issue in a way way that's completely unexpected.
[00:41:29] unexpected. But at the same time, time, voters were very unhappy with
[00:41:32] with the Biden administration's policies policies on immigration that saw
[00:41:36] saw as we saw as we heard from Sarah, Sarah, record numbers of people crossing
[00:41:39] crossing the southern border. So
[00:41:41] So how do Democrats kind of address
[00:41:44] address immigration for the mid-terms. mid-terms. I think right now for for the mid-terms, the conversation conversation is just about Trump's
[00:41:48] Trump's policies. You're absolutely absolutely right. But look, President President Obama deported a large
[00:41:52] large number of people. He made sure
[00:41:54] sure that he was covered on immigration immigration more so than President
[00:41:57] President Biden was able to. The The key now is to focus for Democrats
[00:42:00] Democrats on what people see from
[00:42:02] from Ice, which is arrests. Some
[00:42:05] Some sketchy like shooting of Americans Americans and things that are really
[00:42:09] really disturbing because that's that's the policy of the President President and that's what Democrats Democrats need to stand against.
[00:42:13] against. OK. Really interesting conversation, conversation, Doug and Sarah, thank thank you both so much for coming
[00:42:16] coming in tonight. Thanks for having having us. So still to come on world
[00:42:20] world news America, EU officials officials announced plans to restrict
[00:42:22] restrict social media access for for children under 15, but critics
[00:42:26] critics question how enforceable enforceable and effective those measures measures will be. More on that coming
[00:42:29] coming up. Around the world and across
[00:42:31] across the
[00:43:34] truth, trust and fake news on BBC
[00:43:37] BBC News. You're watching BBC News.
[00:43:44] News. The European Union outlined outlined plans to ban social media
[00:43:47] media for children under the age age of 13. That follows similar bans
[00:43:50] bans in countries like the UK and and Australia for children under
[00:43:53] under 16. Now, under the EU proposals, proposals, older children between
[00:43:57] between 13 and 15 years of age will will be allowed quote, limited use
[00:44:00] use of the technology but only under under supervision. The restrictions restrictions are being implemented
[00:44:04] implemented with the aim of addressing addressing concerns over the harmful
[00:44:07] harmful effects on children's mental mental health and increasing their
[00:44:11] their well-being. Our Europe correspondent correspondent Nick Beake has this this from Brussels.
[00:44:19] Brussels. The European Commission, which proposes legislation legislation for the whole of the the EU, says that there has to be
[00:44:23] be a complete change of emphasis emphasis here that in the future future big tech companies prove that
[00:44:26] that their products are safe for for children. Now officials have
[00:44:30] have been looking at the ban that that Australia brought in at the
[00:44:33] the end of last year for under 16
[00:44:35] 16 seconds. They're using social social media and the European officials
[00:44:39] officials believe that there needs needs to be a more gradual approach
[00:44:42] approach in the continent here. They're They're saying that under 13 seconds
[00:44:45] seconds should not have access to to social media. Then when a child
[00:44:48] child reaches the age of 13 and when when they're 14, they should have
[00:44:52] have some limited access to certain
[00:44:55] certain platforms with parental supervision. supervision. And for only an hour
[00:44:59] hour a day. So parents will have have to play their part in this,
[00:45:03] this, not just social media apps
[00:45:05] apps though also video sharing platforms
[00:45:07] platforms are included. Online gaming
[00:45:11] gaming and AI companions. How will will this work in practice? Well,
[00:45:14] Well, some people are talking about
[00:45:16] about privacy concerns because there there is talk of age restrictions
[00:45:20] restrictions coming in. So people people having to prove that they're
[00:45:23] they're old enough to use these particular particular services. And it's worth
[00:45:27] worth pointing out that just last last month in France, after the government
[00:45:30] government there had come up with
[00:45:32] with its own ideas for making children
[00:45:35] children safer online, the top court court in France said that there were
[00:45:39] were concerns about restrictions restrictions on freedom of expression. expression. So that's just one indication
[00:45:43] indication of how there could be be obstacles in the months to come.
[00:45:47] come. But certainly the European
[00:45:48] European Union says this is putting
[00:45:51] putting children at the heart of of what they're doing and also giving
[00:45:54] giving the power back to parents parents so that in the future they
[00:45:57] they can feel confident that their their children are safe as they try
[00:46:01] try and navigate the digital world. world. That was Nick Beake reporting
[00:46:05] reporting from Brussels. Now Louise Louise Heeran Flynn is former member
[00:46:08] member of the EU Special Panel on on Child Safety Online. Currently Currently assistant Professor in
[00:46:12] in Teaching Education at Trinity Trinity College Dublin. She gave
[00:46:15] gave me her thoughts on how the social social media ban could actually work
[00:46:18] work in the EU. I think potentially potentially this EU Kids Act has
[00:46:22] has the potential to be the most most significant piece of legislation
[00:46:25] legislation that has come out of of Europe and indeed the world to
[00:46:28] to protect our children online. And And I think one of the key points
[00:46:32] points for me is our starting point. point. I mean, I think we're all
[00:46:35] all on the same page worldwide in
[00:46:37] in terms of protecting children.
[00:46:39] children. But as far back as Ursula
[00:46:43] Ursula March 2025 state of the Union Union address, she announced that
[00:46:45] that she was going to bring a group group of experts together. And that
[00:46:49] that is indeed what she did. And And it was a multidisciplinary team.
[00:46:52] team. But also, I think what is crucial crucial is that around that table,
[00:46:56] table, we had many experts. We had had parents, parents associations,
[00:47:00] associations, and we had young people. people. So it's really important
[00:47:03] important that we have the voices voices of young people and children children included in this. And their
[00:47:07] their voices were very loud and clear.
[00:47:08] clear. And they said, look, we love
[00:47:11] love our online space. This is how how we communicate and make friends
[00:47:14] friends and communicate with our our friends. But please regulate
[00:47:17] regulate so that it keeps us safe.
[00:47:19] safe. So for me, I think it's been
[00:47:21] been really useful and comforting comforting to know that our work
[00:47:25] work is based on evidence gathering
[00:47:28] gathering for the last year and the the voices of all of those stakeholders.
[00:47:32] stakeholders. But also I think we we had the hindsight, we took the
[00:47:35] the key learnings on board also from
[00:47:37] from other jurisdictions, best practices, practices, things that had worked, worked, things that hadn't. And we
[00:47:41] we certainly saw, I think, the need need for to understand they're two
[00:47:45] two sides of the coin that it is is not just and cannot just be about
[00:47:49] about a standalone measure of age
[00:47:52] age based restriction. It has to to be more than that. It has to regulate.
[00:47:56] regulate. So Louise, can I ask you you because the platforms here say
[00:47:59] say that a ban is not the way to
[00:48:02] to do this, that it is better to
[00:48:03] to help parents navigate their children's
[00:48:06] children's their accounts and also also that children can simply get
[00:48:10] get around bans and they already already do that. So what's the response
[00:48:12] response to that? Yeah, absolutely. absolutely. And I take the point.
[00:48:15] point. I think what's really important important for me to clarify what
[00:48:18] what we are talking about with the the EU Kids Act, this is considerably
[00:48:22] considerably different to what has has gone before. And we have seen
[00:48:25] seen and we know the learnings and
[00:48:27] and we're using those in the sense
[00:48:30] sense that a standalone age based
[00:48:33] based restriction is not enough, enough, prohibition is not enough. enough. And we do know from early
[00:48:37] early evidence in other jurisdictions jurisdictions and by early evidence
[00:48:39] evidence in their defence, it's three three months in to the study when
[00:48:43] when that was the evidence was accumulated.
[00:48:47] accumulated. It is showing that children children have the ability to circumvent
[00:48:50] circumvent and we're very aware of
[00:48:51] of that. So I think what became very
[00:48:55] very prevalent in our thinking was was that ultimately it cannot be
[00:48:58] be about the standalone ban. It has
[00:48:59] has to be about heavily focus on
[00:49:02] on the regulation of those platforms
[00:49:04] platforms and the designs and the
[00:49:07] the removal of those addictive design
[00:49:11] design measures, as well as a tailored, tailored, gradual approach. An introduction
[00:49:14] introduction to social media. But But I completely agree. This for
[00:49:18] for me is about empowering parents
[00:49:21] parents and empowering children and and our young people. Absolutely.
[00:49:25] Absolutely. Because ultimately this this is about putting parents back back into the driving seat because
[00:49:29] because it is it should not be down down to large platforms to determine
[00:49:33] determine when they access children. children. That is a decision for
[00:49:35] for parents. So it is very much what what I think we're looking at is
[00:49:39] is a whole systems approach, which which is not just about prohibition.
[00:49:42] prohibition. So can I ask you the the social media companies would
[00:49:46] would need to prove that their designs
[00:49:48] designs indeed are safe. How do you you measure that? Because it does
[00:49:51] does feel subjective in a way. Right?
[00:49:54] Right? Yeah, absolutely. And I think
[00:49:56] think that is one of the what I would
[00:49:58] would like to say. One of the advantages advantages in relation to this EU
[00:50:02] EU kids act that we are looking at
[00:50:04] at very heavy enforcement and we we know from enforcement and what
[00:50:08] what we have seen thus far in relation relation to this act that it is wonderful
[00:50:12] wonderful to say that that burden burden of proof has been put back
[00:50:15] back onto the tech companies. I think think for too long it's been on parents
[00:50:18] parents and teachers and so on, so
[00:50:20] so that there has been absolutely absolutely reversal of that burden
[00:50:23] burden of proof back to tech companies, companies, companies. And in that
[00:50:26] that sense, we're talking about very very large online companies now will
[00:50:30] will now have to prove that they're
[00:50:32] they're safe by design, and that that will include compliance plans.
[00:50:36] plans. They will have to prove that that they're safe by design rather
[00:50:40] rather than a regulator proving that that they're not. And we do. We have
[00:50:43] have seen that again, they're talking talking about expedited investigations
[00:50:47] investigations that will be completed
[00:50:48] completed within 90 days. Now to
[00:50:52] to South Africa, where police confirmed confirmed the discovery of a ninth
[00:50:56] ninth woman's body near the city city of Johannesburg in the last last two months. The latest victim
[00:51:00] victim was found at the side of a a road in Dawn Park on Thursday.
[00:51:03] Thursday. Police say they're trying trying to identify any connections
[00:51:06] connections between the deaths. Most Most of the bodies have been found found either partially or fully naked.
[00:51:10] naked. South Africa has one of the the highest rates of femicide in
[00:51:14] in the world. Our South Africa correspondent
[00:51:16] correspondent Nomsa Maseko sent this this report from Johannesburg. The
[00:51:19] The woman whose body was found here
[00:51:21] here earlier is believed to be in
[00:51:23] in her 30s. She was found partially partially naked with her throat cut.
[00:51:27] cut. Police believe she was murdered murdered elsewhere and that her body
[00:51:31] body was deliberately dumped here here near a residential area so that
[00:51:35] that her body could be found. The The recent spate of killings has
[00:51:38] has sparked public outrage and fear, fear, raising new questions about
[00:51:42] about the scale of gender based violence
[00:51:44] violence in South Africa. Yo. I'm
[00:51:46] I'm scared. I'm angry. I'm upset.
[00:51:48] upset. I'm. I'm nervous. I am everything.
[00:51:51] everything. I'm shattered. This is
[00:51:54] is bad in the a country where there
[00:51:58] there is democracy. But we experience experience we are faced with this
[00:52:01] this challenge of murdering women. women. We are parents. We are young.
[00:52:05] young. We. We like. We are even scared
[00:52:08] scared now to come out of your house. house. You are scared to go to the
[00:52:11] the shop. You are scared to go anywhere. anywhere. We are no longer free in in the country. We're supposed to
[00:52:15] to be free and to be safe. As women. women. There's widespread speculation
[00:52:18] speculation that the recent murders murders have been committed by a
[00:52:21] a serial killer, but police have
[00:52:23] have not confirmed this yet. The
[00:52:25] The acting police commissioner has has said investigators are following
[00:52:29] following up on all possible leads.
[00:52:31] leads. It's still very early to make
[00:52:34] make any conclusions about this body
[00:52:36] body that has been found here. However,
[00:52:38] However, because we are having currently currently a multidisciplinary team
[00:52:42] team that was assembled already on on Sunday when the acting provincial
[00:52:45] provincial commissioner made a call,
[00:52:47] call, it was also joined by the National
[00:52:51] National Forensic, a investigative investigative psychology unit, so
[00:52:53] so that they can assist with the
[00:52:55] the profiling of the victims as well
[00:52:58] well to look at the similarities
[00:53:00] similarities and if there is any, any, a connection that can be made
[00:53:04] made on all the bodies. Women have have been urged not to walk or run
[00:53:08] run alone and avoid secluded spaces.
[00:53:11] spaces. Officials have said the warnings warnings are not about restricting
[00:53:13] restricting the freedom of women
[00:53:16] women to move, exercise or live their their lives, but that it's all about
[00:53:19] about taking reasonable precautions.
[00:53:21] precautions. While police continue continue with their investigations.
[00:53:24] investigations. Nomsa Maseko. BBC
[00:53:27] BBC News Johannesburg. Here in the
[00:53:30] the US., the state of Pennsylvania Pennsylvania is requesting emergency
[00:53:33] emergency support from the centres centres for Disease Control after
[00:53:36] after the fourth measles associated associated death in the state. The
[00:53:39] The Democratic governor, Josh Shapiro,
[00:53:40] Shapiro, says Pennsylvania has recorded
[00:53:43] recorded 693 measles cases in a majority majority of its counties. The disease
[00:53:47] disease had been eliminated in the the US decades earlier, but a wave
[00:53:50] wave of vaccine scepticism has seen seen the disease return across the
[00:53:54] the country, and the top health official, official, Robert F Kennedy Jr, has
[00:53:57] has repeatedly peddled falsehoods falsehoods about vaccine safety. safety. Just a few hours ago, he
[00:54:01] he repeated vaccine misinformation misinformation misinformation at at a conference for an anti-vaccine
[00:54:05] anti-vaccine group that he founded. founded. Governor Shapiro slammed
[00:54:08] slammed that appearance, posting posting on social media in the midst midst of the largest and deadliest
[00:54:12] deadliest measles outbreak in America America in 35 years, RFK Jr chose
[00:54:15] chose to spend his time today addressing
[00:54:18] addressing the premier vaccine denial denial conference in America. He He added that he pushed a narrative
[00:54:22] narrative that continues to stoke
[00:54:25] stoke fear and mistrust. Let's take take a look now at some other stories
[00:54:29] stories from across the globe. Climate Climate change was a core factor factor in last month's deadly glacial
[00:54:33] glacial mountain collapse on the the China-nepal border. That's a
[00:54:36] a new finding from a global group group of environmental scientists.
[00:54:39] scientists. 1400 people were killed. killed. At least 6000 people are
[00:54:43] are still missing. Huge amounts of of water, ice and debris smashed
[00:54:46] smashed through buildings after a a massive section of rock and glacier
[00:54:49] glacier broke away from the mountain. mountain. According to the report
[00:54:52] report from World Weather Attribution, Attribution, the glacier collapse collapse was caused by a compound
[00:54:56] compound crisis shaped by long-term long-term warming. New numbers show
[00:54:59] show the numbers of migrants and and refugees trying to reach Europe
[00:55:02] Europe by sea have dropped dramatically, dramatically, yet there have been
[00:55:05] been more deaths. 60,000 people have have so far tried to make the journey
[00:55:09] journey this year, down 39% on the
[00:55:11] the same period last year. Around
[00:55:14] Around 2300 have died, up from last last year's figure of just under
[00:55:17] under 2000. The head of the UN's UN's migration agency said this meant
[00:55:20] meant people were risking increasingly
[00:55:23] increasingly dangerous journeys. journeys. Finally, a scientists have
[00:55:27] have confirmed the discovery of the the first new cat species to be identified
[00:55:31] identified in more than a century.
[00:55:33] century. Now the wildcat, known by by its local name Tilcayo, inhabits
[00:55:36] inhabits the cloud forests of Bolivia. Bolivia. It's part of a group known
[00:55:40] known as Tiger Cats. And it took took genetic tests to confirm it
[00:55:44] it as a distinct species. Leopardus Leopardus Tilcayo is a little smaller
[00:55:48] smaller than the average cat and and has a light brown fur with irregular
[00:55:51] irregular dark patches. That is our our programme at this hour. Thank
[00:55:55] Thank you so much for watching World
[00:55:56] World News America. Do stay with
[00:55:59] with BBC News.
[00:59:48] MUSIC
[01:00:10] Live from Washington. This is
[01:00:13] BBC News. Possible war crimes by by the US that is the verdict of
[01:00:16] of a United Nations panel investigating investigating two deadly strikes
[01:00:19] strikes in Iran from February. The The US rejects the report. President
[01:00:22] President Trump says the US is making making major progress towards opening
[01:00:26] opening its first permanent army army base in Poland, calling it an
[01:00:29] an historic step for both countries countries and King Charles urges
[01:00:32] urges leading tech bosses developing developing AI to protect humanity
[01:00:35] humanity as he warns of existential
[01:00:38] existential dangers. Those who have
[01:00:42] have created these technologies are are now increasingly warning that
[01:00:46] that AI risks developing darker capacities.
[01:00:49] capacities. Perhaps even to take
[01:00:52] take life.