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[00:00:01] you are. Business on BBC News. Make
[00:00:01] Make the connection. MUSIC
[00:00:12] MUSIC With With terrorism entrenched and kidnapping
[00:00:14] kidnapping and banditry on the rise, rise, who can Nigerians trust to
[00:00:18] to keep their country safe and as as elections approach, how can they
[00:00:21] they separate the truth from the
[00:00:23] the lies? Now on BBC News World questions.
[00:00:28] questions. How come Nigeria is Africa's Africa's biggest oil producer yet?
[00:00:31] yet? There are power cuts every day.
[00:00:34] day. How come the economy is doing doing well with growth rising yet
[00:00:37] yet so many are poor and so few can
[00:00:40] can enjoy the good things in life?
[00:00:43] life? How come millions have been been spent making schools safe? Yet
[00:00:46] Yet last year more students were were kidnapped by bandits than ever
[00:00:50] ever before. Who to believe in a
[00:00:53] a world of rumour, conspiracy, claim
[00:00:56] claim and counter-claim from Lagos.
[00:00:58] Lagos. This is world questions Nigeria
[00:01:00] Nigeria truth, trust and fake news.
[00:01:12] news. Trust is at the heart of successful
[00:01:16] successful countries. Trust in the
[00:01:18] the police. Trust in the civil service.
[00:01:21] service. Trust in the political class. class. But trust is in short supply
[00:01:24] supply here in Nigeria as this 250
[00:01:28] 250 million strong West African country
[00:01:30] country heads towards national elections. elections. We have a lively audience
[00:01:33] audience here at the University of of Lagos ready to put their questions
[00:01:37] questions to our panel to debate.
[00:01:39] debate. Let me introduce them. Aisha
[00:01:41] Aisha Yesufu is a human rights activist
[00:01:44] activist and the co-founder of the
[00:01:46] the BringBackOurGirls movement. Tolu Tolu Ogunlesi is a writer and a former
[00:01:50] former special assistant to the President
[00:01:52] President on digital and new media.
[00:01:54] media. Nabilah Usman is the presenter presenter of Now Breakfast and the
[00:01:58] the general manager of Radio now
[00:02:01] now 95.3 FM. Cheta is a political
[00:02:04] political risk analyst and lead partner
[00:02:06] partner of SBM intelligence and Tonye
[00:02:09] Tonye Cole is the co-founder of the
[00:02:11] the Multinational Energy and infrastructure infrastructure conglomerate the Sahara
[00:02:15] Sahara Group and former candidate candidate for Governor of Rivers
[00:02:17] Rivers State. Please welcome them
[00:02:20] them all. Let us go straight to our
[00:02:25] our first question, and it comes
[00:02:28] comes from Oluwatobi Adediran. OK.
[00:02:30] OK. Thank you so much. So given President
[00:02:34] President Tinubu's 2022 campaign
[00:02:35] campaign in Delta where he said Nigerians Nigerians cannot eat statistics,
[00:02:39] statistics, why should the public public trust this recent flood of
[00:02:43] of data on his X platform is his his reliable. Given the present conditions
[00:02:46] conditions that we can see in Nigeria? Nigeria? Thank you very much indeed.
[00:02:50] indeed. Why should the public trust trust the flood of economic data?
[00:02:53] data? The President's administration administration is now publishing
[00:02:55] publishing on X when every day living living conditions continue to worsen.
[00:02:59] worsen. A little bit of context growth
[00:03:01] growth is rising in Nigeria quite
[00:03:05] quite sharply, but so are poverty poverty levels. Inflation has fallen,
[00:03:09] fallen, but petrol now that it's it's no longer being subsidised is
[00:03:11] is much, much more expensive than
[00:03:13] than it was. And imports are much
[00:03:16] much more expensive because the support
[00:03:19] support of the currency has disappeared. disappeared. Can I start with Tonye
[00:03:22] Tonye Cole businessman? Thank you
[00:03:23] you very much. Thank you for the
[00:03:26] the thank you for the question. At At a particular level, when it comes
[00:03:30] comes to the macro level, there has
[00:03:32] has actually been progress. One of
[00:03:34] of the things that we have seen that that is difficult is moving that
[00:03:38] that progress at macro level to the
[00:03:40] the micro level. And so at the bottom
[00:03:42] bottom of the pyramid, the masses
[00:03:44] masses are feeling the pain of the the changes that have been executed
[00:03:48] executed at the top. So we're dealing dealing with two different things.
[00:03:50] things. The first aspect of it have
[00:03:53] have had reforms been done. The answer
[00:03:55] answer is yes. Are those reforms
[00:03:57] reforms making a change at the top?
[00:03:59] top? Again, the answer is yes. Is
[00:04:02] Is that reform moving fast enough enough to be felt at the bottom?
[00:04:05] bottom? The answer is no. So that
[00:04:08] that question about believing the
[00:04:11] the statistics, it doesn't work because
[00:04:13] because the pain is is there as you
[00:04:16] you say at the bottom. Even if the the numbers are right at the top.
[00:04:19] top. Absolutely. So what you see, see, most people want to feel the
[00:04:23] the difference. And so when you say say things are moving but moving
[00:04:26] moving in a particular direction, direction, but what you are feeling feeling is that you are moving in
[00:04:30] in the opposite direction from what what they say. Naturally you will will think that you must disbelieve
[00:04:34] disbelieve it. But does that mean mean that that's not the truth? The
[00:04:37] The answer is that the truth is that that we are moving at a macro level
[00:04:41] level in the right direction, but but the pain is real at the bottom.
[00:04:45] bottom. Isa said. The public trust
[00:04:47] trust the numbers when their everyday
[00:04:50] everyday experience is so different. different. Well, I don't think we
[00:04:53] we should be talking about numbers numbers when people are suffering, suffering, but propaganda cannot
[00:04:57] cannot take away the rumbling of of hunger, you know, in people. And
[00:05:01] And we were talking about the suffering, suffering, the fact that there are
[00:05:04] are some, you know, things that are are being done but that the masses
[00:05:07] masses are suffering, they are suffering. suffering. Why then are the people
[00:05:10] people at the top not suffering? suffering? Why does it have to be
[00:05:13] be the people at the bottom who are are feeling the brunt of all the
[00:05:16] the suffering that is going on? And And if you look at the issue of where
[00:05:19] where we say there are reforms but but we do not see those who are supposed
[00:05:23] supposed to be in authority who are are putting out these reforms. You
[00:05:25] You do not see their lifestyle changing. changing. They are not reforming. reforming. They are not tightening
[00:05:29] tightening their belts. They are are squandering the money up and
[00:05:31] and down. You are seeing bogus projects projects that we shouldn't be seeing. seeing. For example, the coastal
[00:05:35] coastal road is being built but all all the inner roads, you know, literally
[00:05:38] literally people are stuck in traffic traffic for like three, four, five
[00:05:41] five days. People's businesses are are collapsing. And then you begin
[00:05:44] begin to see places where monies monies are being spent anyhow, 20
[00:05:48] 20 something billion used to renovate renovate the vice president's house
[00:05:51] house that he doesn't even live in. in. Now you're seeing, you know,
[00:05:54] know, such bogus elephant projects
[00:05:58] projects everywhere and you're wondering wondering why is it that the people people have to feel it? And why is
[00:06:01] is it that you're being told about
[00:06:04] about numbers when the lives of people people is getting worse by the day?
[00:06:07] day? Thank you very much. Tolu Ogunlesi
[00:06:10] Ogunlesi writer, former adviser to
[00:06:12] to a former president. The question
[00:06:14] question about the mismatch between between those big numbers, the numbers numbers on growth, the numbers on
[00:06:18] on inflation and the experience that that people have. As somebody who
[00:06:21] who has worked in. Government communications, communications, I think it's important
[00:06:24] important that the statistics must must always be backed by stories,
[00:06:27] stories, because if you think about
[00:06:29] about it, I mean, yes, people may may not be happy with, say, the coastal
[00:06:33] coastal the example you gave. But
[00:06:35] But for each kilometre of the coastal coastal road that is built, it's
[00:06:39] it's money that goes into the hands
[00:06:42] hands of a labourers, truck drivers,
[00:06:45] drivers, you know, people who sell sell sand, who sell cement, who sell.
[00:06:49] sell. Now, I think government has has a duty to tell the stories, to
[00:06:53] to make that connection. So you don't don't stop at the statistics. You
[00:06:56] You don't stop at saying we are building building a coastal road or we have
[00:07:00] have spent 1 billion or 2 billion. billion. You have to go down, drill
[00:07:03] drill down to say this 1 billion billion that has gone into this thing.
[00:07:06] thing. This is how it's affecting affecting the lives of people, you
[00:07:10] you know, and we have a former minister minister who used to do a very good
[00:07:13] good job actually, of, of explaining explaining that even down to the
[00:07:17] the fact that when you are building building something, you have people
[00:07:20] people who are selling food, who who gather to sell food to the construction
[00:07:24] construction workers. So I think think that there's a failure of storytelling. storytelling. And I think it's part
[00:07:28] part of what contributes to the despair
[00:07:29] despair that Nigerians feel as a a people. Thank you very much. Can
[00:07:33] Can I go back to our questioner? questioner? You heard what Tony said
[00:07:35] said there. You know, you see the the big numbers take a long time
[00:07:39] time to trickle down to the millions millions and millions of people affected.
[00:07:43] affected. Do you understand it? Do Do you buy it? I don't buy it. I'm
[00:07:47] I'm sorry to say, but I don't buy
[00:07:49] buy it. Don't be sorry. I'm I'm a
[00:07:52] a Nigerian and I live in Nigeria. Nigeria. I stay in Nigeria. I eat
[00:07:54] eat the things Nigeria eat, but I I can't see the change. If you are
[00:07:58] are if you are claiming to work for for us, I should see the change in
[00:08:01] in my life. I don't want to see the the numbers on X. I don't want to
[00:08:05] to see ehm you telling me we brought brought it from 250 to 200 and you're
[00:08:09] you're telling me those things are are stories? Can I see that? The The things that I'm able to afford
[00:08:12] afford are increasing, my purchasing purchasing power is increasing. If If I don't see all those things,
[00:08:16] things, then it doesn't matter to to me. Your statistic is dominating dominating to me. Thank you very
[00:08:20] very much. Thank you. I appreciate appreciate your thoughts. Our next
[00:08:23] next question is going to be read
[00:08:25] read by a proxy, not the person who who put the question in. My name
[00:08:29] name is Kelly. Thank you very much. much. Good evening everyone. Good
[00:08:33] Good evening panellists. My question
[00:08:34] question is in this era of social social media monetisation, everybody
[00:08:38] everybody wants to be a content creator. creator. Everybody wants to pass
[00:08:41] pass information whether it is correct
[00:08:43] correct or not correct. And we are
[00:08:45] are tending towards the general elections.
[00:08:48] elections. How can Nigeria hold influential
[00:08:50] influential political content creators
[00:08:53] creators accountable ahead of 27 27 elections without compromising compromising freedom of expression?
[00:08:56] expression? OK. Thank you very much much indeed. That question how can
[00:09:00] can Nigeria hold influential political
[00:09:02] political content creators accountable
[00:09:05] accountable ahead of the 2027 elections elections without compromising freedom
[00:09:08] freedom of expression? Broadcaster Broadcaster Nabilah Usman. I mean,
[00:09:12] mean, interesting question. I would would say it's a question that the
[00:09:16] the rest of the world is also asking asking because you've got influencers
[00:09:19] influencers across the world. For For me, I work on radio and so I
[00:09:22] I know that if I put out wrong information,
[00:09:25] information, the regulator is going going to probably slap me with a
[00:09:28] a fine. There's a consequence somewhere. somewhere. And I do think that for
[00:09:32] for those of us who consume that
[00:09:35] that media on online, right? The The question is what are we collectively
[00:09:38] collectively agreeing? Is the fine.
[00:09:40] fine. And so if you want to talk talk about regulating the online
[00:09:44] online space, and I'm careful because because it is a tricky conversation,
[00:09:47] conversation, but it's a conversation conversation worth having nonetheless.
[00:09:50] nonetheless. The question is the the information they're putting out,
[00:09:53] out, is it harming people in real real time in the real world? And
[00:09:56] And if the answer is yes, then there there should certainly be consequences
[00:10:00] consequences for that. Thank you
[00:10:01] you very much. Your organisation,
[00:10:05] organisation, SBM intelligence has
[00:10:07] has done a lot of work on social
[00:10:10] social media, on the influence of of misinformation. Disinformation.
[00:10:13] Disinformation. Is there a way of
[00:10:15] of holding content creators, political political content creators, any kind
[00:10:18] kind of content creators accountable
[00:10:21] accountable for what they do? Unfortunately,
[00:10:23] Unfortunately, I would say I'm very very negative on that. I think that
[00:10:27] that and this is not just in Nigeria Nigeria problem, it's actually a
[00:10:30] a global problem where in a we're
[00:10:32] we're in a period of flux where trust
[00:10:34] trust in the mainstream media has has been broken. The BBC, for example,
[00:10:38] example, is experiencing that with
[00:10:40] with the things like Gaza in Nigeria,
[00:10:43] Nigeria, as in so many other countries, countries, we have become a lot more
[00:10:47] more tribal many times. When you you say tribal to in Nigeria and and he thinks of ethnicity, it's
[00:10:50] it's not just ethnicity. People think think in terms of. So for example,
[00:10:54] example, let's assume that you're you're an Arsenal fan. Somebody is
[00:10:56] is a man you fan you are. You are are likely to listen to a man you
[00:11:00] you fan more so that has become a
[00:11:02] a problem. And we have a society society that does not verify. We
[00:11:05] We published a survey about six weeks
[00:11:08] weeks ago now on the threat of AI AI in the elections. And one thing
[00:11:11] thing that struck me when we were were doing the analysis of the data, data, because we went we went around
[00:11:15] around the country to ask people people questions. When we were analysing
[00:11:17] analysing the data, we found that
[00:11:20] that only 23% of people actually actually verified the information
[00:11:23] information that they get from social
[00:11:24] social media. And this is very critical
[00:11:28] critical because most people now now get their information. 56% of
[00:11:32] of respondents get their information information from social media, not
[00:11:35] not from regulated media. So we are
[00:11:37] are in an inflection point. Something Something has broken. It's a global
[00:11:41] global problem. Nigeria is not going going to fix it. And as a result
[00:11:44] result of that, the 2027 elections
[00:11:46] elections are going to see some nastiness
[00:11:49] nastiness as a result of the rise
[00:11:51] rise of AI and its use on social
[00:11:53] social media. We had a boy in, in
[00:11:56] in Benin who was arrested fairly fairly recently because he cloned cloned the President's voice. I can
[00:12:00] can almost guarantee that people people are going to clone the voices
[00:12:02] voices of various candidates in the the coming elections, and people
[00:12:05] people will believe that. Thank you
[00:12:07] you very much indeed. Tolu Ogunlesi
[00:12:10] Ogunlesi is it possible is it desirable
[00:12:13] desirable to hold political content
[00:12:15] content creators accountable or does does that impinge very heavily on
[00:12:19] on their freedom to put out political political messaging? Well, I think
[00:12:22] think it depends on how you do it.
[00:12:25] it. So fact checking by media, you
[00:12:28] you know, there are a lot of political
[00:12:31] political shows in Nigeria, you know,
[00:12:33] know, traditional media, social media,
[00:12:36] media, podcasts, TV shows, radio radio shows. And I think one thing thing that we haven't seen enough
[00:12:40] enough of is instant fact checking. checking. So whether it's panels,
[00:12:43] panels, whether it's podcasts, whether whether it's TV shows, the popular
[00:12:46] popular morning shows or evening
[00:12:47] evening shows, I think that journalists
[00:12:50] journalists and gatekeepers, to use use that word, must do instant and
[00:12:53] and immediate fact checking. And And to do that, you need to have have access to the facts yourself.
[00:12:57] yourself. You need to have a team. team. You need to have access to,
[00:13:01] to, you know, to the information information and to debunk it on the
[00:13:05] the spot instead of, you know, having having to come back later or allow
[00:13:08] allow it to, to, to get into the
[00:13:12] the wider space. OK. Thank you very very much. I want to come to the
[00:13:15] the audience and I want to hear from
[00:13:18] from you about holding politicians
[00:13:21] politicians accountable for what what they say and whether that is
[00:13:23] is a good thing or a bad thing on on social media, given freedom of
[00:13:27] of expression. But you wanted to to make a point. First of. All, I I want to build on something that
[00:13:30] that Tolu said. Basically we have have a sort of power asymmetry in
[00:13:34] in terms of whether it is a celebrity
[00:13:38] celebrity or a politician. Many people people in Nigeria don't have access access to the information and even
[00:13:41] even when they have access to the the information, they are too respectful
[00:13:45] respectful in quotes to ask or to
[00:13:48] to challenge somebody. And that's that's something that is a problem.
[00:13:51] problem. So a lot of people just just basically flow and say whatever
[00:13:55] whatever they like without being being challenged. I said, anyone anyone who wants it on the panel
[00:13:58] panel who wants to make a point could
[00:14:02] could they? Aisha. OK, thank you you very much. I just wanted to make
[00:14:06] make a connection. If government government is really working, government government doesn't have to tell its
[00:14:10] its own stories. The people we tell
[00:14:12] tell the stories on behalf of government. government. If you look at when I
[00:14:16] I talked about the coastal road. road. Yeah. If the Interstate road
[00:14:19] road are working and very smoothly,
[00:14:21] smoothly, nobody will listen to the the political actors or whatever.
[00:14:25] whatever. They will listen to the the people who are travelling on
[00:14:27] on those roads with their cameras cameras and say to you, hey, I travelled
[00:14:31] travelled from Awaji to Benin and and the road was very good and all
[00:14:34] all of that. So sometimes it's about about just doing the thing, not even
[00:14:37] even not necessarily about telling telling the stories, but actually actually doing the things. And if
[00:14:41] if you also look at it when you when when I talk about that coastal road,
[00:14:44] road, as much as you are saying that that when the monies are being used,
[00:14:47] used, yes, people are going to benefit benefit from it. Why don't we put
[00:14:50] put it in places where people are are using the roads that's already
[00:14:54] already existing that are bad, rather
[00:14:56] rather than creating new ones with with overbloated contracts? That
[00:14:59] That doesn't do any good for anybody. anybody. OK, OK, I want to come to
[00:15:02] to the audience, if I could on this this issue of accountability of politicians.
[00:15:06] politicians. I'm going to start with with the gentleman right in the front front here. Thank you. Very much.
[00:15:09] much. My name is Oladipo. With politicians politicians only them accountable
[00:15:13] accountable with what they say. It's It's usually not about what they
[00:15:16] they say but what happens after the the moment you say a word you make
[00:15:20] make a sweeping statement. People
[00:15:24] People because of the nature of the the polity of Nigeria can easily
[00:15:27] easily follow. For example, in the the Ocean state elections, the senator
[00:15:31] senator for Elisha came out, made
[00:15:32] made the statement and it became became something really serious.
[00:15:36] serious. Some people believed what what he said and some people did did not. But thank God that security
[00:15:40] security agencies were able to call call that to order. But thank you
[00:15:43] you very much. I appreciate it. Microphone Microphone to the gentleman over
[00:15:47] over here, sir. So my comment is
[00:15:50] is that I feel like a lot of the
[00:15:53] the conversations around regulating regulating conversations, especially
[00:15:57] especially political conversations conversations happening in the cyber
[00:16:00] cyber space, it's not coming from
[00:16:01] from a place of good faith. And until
[00:16:04] until the people who are high up up there approach that conversation
[00:16:08] conversation from a place of good good faith, for instance, actually
[00:16:11] actually coming to the table with, with, you know, some good intention
[00:16:15] intention to fix the Cyber Crime Crime Act of 2015. Mr Ogunlesi here
[00:16:18] here famously worked for a former
[00:16:21] former president who silenced millions millions of Nigerians by banning
[00:16:24] banning Twitter because he didn't didn't like what Twitter did to his
[00:16:27] his tweet. And at the time they said, said, oh, well, the silence, they
[00:16:30] they deleted my tweets. But you didn't didn't delete the tweet of bad faith
[00:16:33] faith actors. And I'm like, your
[00:16:36] your standard for freedom of speech speech cannot be compared to that
[00:16:39] that of people who are bad faith faith actors. OK. Thank you very
[00:16:43] very much. And lady here, we'll just just get a microphone to you. My
[00:16:47] My name is Victoria. So I would like
[00:16:49] like to speak to the accountability accountability problem towards the
[00:16:52] the politician and not the content content creator right now. Like Aisha
[00:16:56] Aisha Yesufu earlier said that if
[00:16:58] if things work we would not would
[00:17:01] would hardly have the bad faith content content creators. Politicians are
[00:17:05] are highly revered people in Nigeria.
[00:17:06] Nigeria. We even see them as celebrities.
[00:17:10] celebrities. We respect them at that. that. So every word out of their
[00:17:13] their mouth is taken as facts, as
[00:17:16] as truth. So in the state election
[00:17:19] election someone said, if I see any any of you who vote for a certain
[00:17:23] certain political party or a different different political party than this,
[00:17:26] this, you are dead. What do you expect
[00:17:29] expect people to do? I'm coming to to you as the authority in this place,
[00:17:32] place, and I'm telling you, if you
[00:17:33] you do otherwise. So if that continues,
[00:17:37] continues, why would I, a content content creator that will get paid
[00:17:39] paid whether I post or not say the
[00:17:43] the truth when the other person does does not do that. So yeah. Thank
[00:17:46] Thank you very much indeed. Thank Thank you very much. You want to to take it on you when you wanted
[00:17:49] wanted to make a point. OK. Thank Thank you very much. I look at the
[00:17:53] the panel here and I think I'm the
[00:17:54] the only one who has been in active
[00:17:57] active politics and I have been a a victim of both sides of the equation.
[00:18:01] equation. What politicians say and
[00:18:04] and what we receive. One of the things
[00:18:06] things I have found to be true is
[00:18:09] is that people believe political
[00:18:12] political office holders, because because of the office they hold,
[00:18:15] hold, not because of the person that
[00:18:17] that they are. I have run elections
[00:18:20] elections against people who, under under normal circumstance you would
[00:18:23] would not believe a word they say, say, but because they are saying
[00:18:27] saying it from a specific office. office. Regardless of what I say,
[00:18:30] say, I haven't held a political office
[00:18:32] office yet. So coming from a business
[00:18:35] business perspective into politics politics and running on a political
[00:18:39] political office platform is not
[00:18:40] not the same as the one who is speaking
[00:18:43] speaking from an office that is either
[00:18:45] either a governor or a senator and
[00:18:48] and all of that. And this is where
[00:18:51] where you as the public in fact checking
[00:18:55] checking becomes critical. And that's that's to the point that Kelechi
[00:18:58] Kelechi made here. If the public
[00:19:01] public does not check what the politician
[00:19:03] politician has said, not by virtue
[00:19:06] virtue of his office or her office, office, but by who they are and what
[00:19:09] what they are saying, we will continue continue having this. And so what
[00:19:12] what we have is a freedom of impunity,
[00:19:15] impunity, freedom of speech, freedom freedom to say whatever you like
[00:19:19] like because you know nobody is going going to check it. Thank you very
[00:19:22] very much. I'm going to go to our our last question, if I may. It comes
[00:19:25] comes from Samuel Samuel M. So good
[00:19:28] good evening. So basically the question question is why does Africa still
[00:19:31] still struggle to have its own narrative narrative dominates global media media despite having a fast growing
[00:19:35] growing population? Thank you very very much. Why does Africa still
[00:19:39] still struggle to have its own narrative
[00:19:41] narrative dominate global media despite despite having a fast growing population?
[00:19:44] population? I mean, as well as being
[00:19:46] being such a significant part of
[00:19:49] of the world, Tonye Cole it's a simple
[00:19:51] simple question. It is a simple question.
[00:19:53] question. I think one of the things things that is happening now is that
[00:19:57] that we are actually telling our our own stories. So it's changing
[00:20:01] changing and it's changing for the
[00:20:03] the better. Your music industry is
[00:20:05] is telling its story and that story story is going all over the world
[00:20:09] world in places that you would not not believe. Your movie industry
[00:20:13] industry is telling its story. I I have been to places that doors
[00:20:17] doors have been opened up to me just
[00:20:20] just because they identified that that I was a Nigerian where normally
[00:20:23] normally in Nigerian passport would would not allow you to enter. So
[00:20:26] So the truth is that we are now telling telling our own story. We have become
[00:20:30] become much more aware of the power
[00:20:33] power of narrative and that is going going can we do more? Absolutely.
[00:20:36] Absolutely. Are you doing more? I I believe that you are doing more. more. That question for you to ask
[00:20:40] ask the question yourself. It means means that you want to tell your
[00:20:44] your story. So please feel free to to tell your story from a business
[00:20:47] business perspective. I have opened opened offices in many countries
[00:20:51] countries as a Nigerian speaking
[00:20:53] speaking to the Nigerian narrative
[00:20:56] narrative of being very, very aggressive, aggressive, not being, not taking
[00:20:59] taking no for an answer, pushing
[00:21:02] pushing what we as Nigerians are are good at. We don't give up. We
[00:21:06] We don't stop. And so please do not not give up this generation of Nigerians
[00:21:09] Nigerians that I see in front of
[00:21:11] of me carry the answer to the narrative narrative that you are talking about.
[00:21:14] about. Do not allow anyone to deceive deceive you. Tell your story. We
[00:21:17] We are telling that story and you you have platforms to tell the story.
[00:21:19] story. Thank you very much indeed.
[00:21:23] indeed. This question about the narrative
[00:21:25] narrative and grasping the narrative. narrative. So the first thing is
[00:21:28] is we need to define what our narrative
[00:21:31] narrative is. So far as Mr Cole has has said, yes, we are telling our
[00:21:34] our stories, but we are still telling telling the scattershot fashion.
[00:21:37] fashion. It's not very it's not defined defined and we can't define what
[00:21:41] what the narrative we want to tell tell is until we define who we are.
[00:21:44] are. And we have to go back to first
[00:21:46] first principles. So this whole panel panel is about trust. But how many
[00:21:50] many of us understand that the low low trust society that we've built
[00:21:53] built has been something that has has been going on for 500 years?
[00:21:56] years? We it's we've been we've been been low trust for a very long time.
[00:21:59] time. And Nigeria is not I never never described Nigeria as a nation.
[00:22:03] nation. Nigeria is a country of many many nations. Our leaders need to
[00:22:06] to come together in good faith and
[00:22:10] and define what is Nigeria. Once Once we have that answer, what is
[00:22:14] is Nigeria? Then we can tell a narrative.
[00:22:16] narrative. One of the problems of of Nigeria is Nigeria belongs to
[00:22:19] to everybody and belongs to nobody, nobody, which is why you can see
[00:22:22] see people breaking bridges or stealing
[00:22:24] stealing boats from bridges. Yeah. Yeah. So until that narrative changes,
[00:22:28] changes, we will have people will will have outliers. Burna boy will
[00:22:31] will sing at the World Cup finals. finals. That will happen. People
[00:22:34] People will be like, oh wow, Nigeria.
[00:22:35] Nigeria. But then it will be short short bursts and then it will go
[00:22:39] go down again. So we need to define
[00:22:42] define who we are. Then we can define define what we are and then we can
[00:22:46] can begin to tell our stories in in a co-ordinated fashion. Thank
[00:22:48] Thank you. Tolu Ogunlesi. It goes
[00:22:52] goes back to that economic weight weight question. You know, the more
[00:22:55] more economic weights you have as
[00:22:57] as a country, the better you are
[00:22:59] are able to get the attention of
[00:23:02] of the world in a co-ordinated you you know, I use the words, you know,
[00:23:05] know, scattershot fashion, you know, know, you can have your football
[00:23:08] football team do well today or a a musician win a Grammy, you know,
[00:23:11] know, but it has to be something something more than that. And that's
[00:23:14] that's where economic weight comes comes in, you know, so ultimately
[00:23:17] ultimately the bigger we get economically, economically, the more we will be
[00:23:20] be able to tell our stories and get get the attention of the world. Thank
[00:23:23] Thank you. Aisha Yesufu. You heard
[00:23:26] heard Mr Cole talk about, you know, know, the music industry, also our
[00:23:30] our fashion. We are doing amazingly
[00:23:33] amazingly well in terms of our fashion, fashion, but at the end of the day,
[00:23:36] day, we need to know who we are as
[00:23:38] as Nigerians. We've not had the Nigerian
[00:23:40] Nigerian conversation. I think the the amalgamation of the Northern
[00:23:44] Northern and Southern protectorate, protectorate, it's like 112 years
[00:23:48] years now and yet as citizens have have we sat down to actually have
[00:23:52] have a Nigerian conversation to find
[00:23:55] find ourselves until, on until and and unless we're able to find ourselves,
[00:23:59] ourselves, love ourselves, accept accept ourselves unconditionally, unconditionally, there's no way that
[00:24:03] that we're going to tell our stories. stories. We'll continue to depend
[00:24:06] depend on others, you know, because because you want to be a validated.
[00:24:10] validated. The Nigerian youth are are doing amazingly well. I mean,
[00:24:13] mean, all of them understand you're you're able to tell your stories
[00:24:16] stories more, take ownership of it it and don't wait for anybody's validation.
[00:24:19] validation. That's just what I would would say. Thank you very much indeed.
[00:24:22] indeed. Last word Nabilah Usman. Usman. Honestly, a co-ordinated global
[00:24:25] global narrative needs money behind behind it. And I'm not saying, you
[00:24:29] you know, you pay the lobby firms
[00:24:31] firms and whatnot. I mean that what
[00:24:33] what Hollywood did for America, right?
[00:24:36] right? What Bollywood does for India,
[00:24:39] India, I mean that what the corporate
[00:24:42] corporate world, you know, we talk talk about big tech right now and
[00:24:45] and how it's in the West. So what
[00:24:48] what is Nigeria's version of big big tech? That is money, whether
[00:24:51] whether it's the movie industry, industry, in our case Nollywood that
[00:24:54] that is money. What is the media
[00:24:56] media that is money and the internal internal narrative, by the way, we
[00:25:00] we do have some policies in place. place. So for instance, for media
[00:25:03] media operating in Nigeria, we know know that if you're a terrestrial
[00:25:07] terrestrial broadcaster, whether
[00:25:08] whether that's radio or TV, your
[00:25:12] your content has a 8020 percentage. percentage. So 80% local content,
[00:25:16] content, 20% foreign. Same thing thing for the advertising sector.
[00:25:19] sector. So we do have, you know, know, some of those mechanisms in
[00:25:23] in place, but internally we need
[00:25:24] need to get it. That's where Mr Cole's Cole's response Matthias Yaissle
[00:25:28] Yaissle response, that's where it
[00:25:29] it comes in. But globally, money
[00:25:33] money that's the answer. Thank you you very much. I want to get back back to our questioner, Samuel. You
[00:25:37] You ask about the narrative and how how to create it. What do you think?
[00:25:41] think? I just feel like when you
[00:25:43] you tell a average, probably someone, someone, a foreigner and you ask
[00:25:47] ask him, what do you feel about Nigeria? Nigeria? What are your thoughts about
[00:25:51] about Nigeria? The first thing is is thinking of is something very
[00:25:53] very negative. Probably someone doing
[00:25:56] doing Yahoo or someone into someone someone into fraud basically. Yeah,
[00:25:59] Yeah, I admit that you know Afrobeat. Afrobeat. You know, even our football
[00:26:03] football team, female Super Falcons Falcons and Super Eagles. But basically
[00:26:06] basically nobody has seen the good, good, you know, the good stories stories are not really coming out
[00:26:10] out of Nigeria. They are of good good stories out there. What's going going on in the country. Samuel,
[00:26:14] Samuel, thank you very much indeed. indeed. And that is it for world
[00:26:17] world questions. Nigeria truth, trust
[00:26:20] trust and fake news. We will leave
[00:26:22] leave you. Thank you for watching.
[00:28:35] to publish their own versions first, first, some journalists say the right right of reply has had its day. It's
[00:28:39] It's all on The Media Show and BBC
[00:28:42] BBC News. There is nothing like driving
[00:28:48] driving into a moving story and not not knowing what is going to happen
[00:28:51] happen when we enter Damascus. It It was full of rebels shooting in
[00:28:54] in the air in celebration. You can can hear the sound of celebratory
[00:28:57] celebratory gunfire. And I live for for those moments. These troops are
[00:29:01] are heading into the battle zone zone in Khartoum, says the army to to carry out a special operation
[00:29:04] operation entering Khartoum was a
[00:29:06] a seminal moment. The level of destruction destruction was stunning. Sometimes
[00:29:10] Sometimes meeting someone on the the ground can change how you understand
[00:29:13] understand a story. Covering these
[00:29:18] these stories over the years has has impressed upon me how resilient
[00:29:21] resilient people are. And yes, many many of them are desperate, but many
[00:29:24] many of them are also steadfast. steadfast. They're gracious and they're
[00:29:28] they're generous. Journalism is about about telling people not only what
[00:29:31] what happened, but why it matters matters and what it means. History
[00:29:34] History happens in real time and and someone needs to be there to
[00:29:39] to witness it.
[00:30:10] MUSIC
[00:30:10] Hello. Live from London. This is
[00:30:16] is BBC News. Ed Sheeran apologises apologises for what he calls mistakes
[00:30:18] mistakes as he returns to the stage stage for the first time since rapper
[00:30:22] rapper Macklemore was dropped from from his US tour over pro-Palestinian
[00:30:26] pro-Palestinian remarks. The brother brother of Princess Diana Earl Spencer
[00:30:29] Spencer tells the BBC that there there are echoes of what happened
[00:30:32] happened to his sister in the way way the media is treating Prince
[00:30:35] Prince Harry and Meghan. It would would be really beholden on people
[00:30:37] people to learn from Diana's example. example. I'm not here to speak for
[00:30:41] for Harry and Meghan, but for anyone
[00:30:43] anyone who's being destroyed in this
[00:30:45] this way daily. It must be such a
[00:30:48] a cancerous influence in their life. life. These are live pictures from
[00:30:51] from Germany where polls are open open in two states. Political pressure
[00:30:55] pressure is mounting on Chancellor Chancellor Friedrich Merz. Two people
[00:30:59] people are reportedly