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[00:00:00] Business on BBC News. Make the connection.
[00:00:08] connection. MUSIC
[00:00:15] Now on BBC News and Katy Bonner talks to a Kenyan mother of four
[00:00:19] four about her struggles with postpartum
[00:00:22] postpartum psychosis. The symptoms, symptoms, the stigma and her road
[00:00:25] road to recovery focus on Africa.
[00:00:28] Africa. The conversation. I believe
[00:00:35] believe this baby is not mine. I I was, you know, given a different
[00:00:39] different baby. Yeah at birth maybe
[00:00:43] maybe she was switched at birth. birth. Someone told me, you know,
[00:00:47] know, you are a psycho. How does does your husband deal with you?
[00:00:49] you? Somebody said that to you? Yeah. Yeah. And I considered that a friend.
[00:00:52] friend. I wasn't talking, I wasn't wasn't taking care of my baby. I
[00:00:55] I wasn't taking a shower. I was not
[00:00:57] not eating. I was not breastfeeding. breastfeeding. What was happening
[00:01:01] happening to your baby at the time?
[00:01:03] time? She was crying. I remember
[00:01:06] remember she was struggling because because she was still breastfeeding,
[00:01:09] breastfeeding, not yet winning. And And I was here. I
[00:01:17] Here. I was not being able to
[00:01:18] breastfeed. So over the past couple
[00:01:22] couple of weeks there have been some some stories in the news which have
[00:01:24] have put a spotlight on maternal
[00:01:26] maternal mental health, in particular particular postpartum psychosis.
[00:01:30] psychosis. In fact, one article recently
[00:01:32] recently ran with the headline Postpartum
[00:01:35] Postpartum psychosis is Rising. We We are not ready. Now, while there
[00:01:39] there is little data for rates of
[00:01:41] of maternal mental health disorders
[00:01:43] disorders on the continent, the World World Health Organization says that
[00:01:47] that almost 20% of women in developing
[00:01:50] developing countries experience mental
[00:01:53] mental disorders after childbirth, childbirth, primarily depression.
[00:01:56] depression. But these days more women women are speaking out. So what's
[00:01:59] what's it like to experience postpartum postpartum psychosis and what can
[00:02:03] can be done to better support mothers?
[00:02:06] mothers? I am Nkechi Ogbonna and
[00:02:08] and this is Focus on Africa. The
[00:02:10] The conversation I am joined by Chebet Chebet Birir here in the studio with
[00:02:14] with me. She's a fellow journalist
[00:02:16] journalist in Nairobi and she's a a mother of four children. Hey, thank
[00:02:20] thank you so much for joining us. us. Thank you so much for inviting
[00:02:23] inviting me to this very important important discussion. I'm doing well. well. How are you? I'm very well,
[00:02:26] well, thank you. Nice to meet you. you. We're glad to have you. And
[00:02:30] And from Johannesburg, South Africa
[00:02:33] Africa we have perinatal psychiatrist psychiatrist Doctor Lavinia Lumu.
[00:02:36] Lumu. Hello, doctor Lumu, how is is Joburg today? Hi. Thank you for
[00:02:40] for inviting me. I'm Joburg is warming warming up. Oh fantastic. Thank you
[00:02:44] you so much for joining us for this
[00:02:48] this conversation. Now I'm going going to start with you. We're going
[00:02:51] going to start talking about motherhood motherhood and mental health. But
[00:02:54] But before we get into that, I just just wanted to know what your life
[00:02:58] life was like before you became a
[00:02:59] a mother. And if that was something
[00:03:02] something you had always wanted to to be. OK. Yeah, of course I had
[00:03:05] had always wanted to be a mother. mother. I'd say it's just the timing
[00:03:09] timing of the time I was I became became a mother that was not in my
[00:03:13] my plans. I had just, you know, cleared
[00:03:16] cleared my campus waiting to graduate. graduate. And then I found out I
[00:03:20] I was pregnant. But before that,
[00:03:22] that, you know, life was pretty much
[00:03:25] much OK as a student and as a girlfriend girlfriend to my boyfriend then who
[00:03:29] who is now my husband. Oh, so it
[00:03:31] it was a campus love. Yes. It was
[00:03:34] was actually high school love high high school all the way back, all
[00:03:37] all the way from high school. We We started as friends. And then just
[00:03:40] just before I cleared campus, we
[00:03:41] we started living together. And then, then, you know, things happened.
[00:03:45] happened. As they say, the rest is
[00:03:46] is history. I know three babies later,
[00:03:49] later, three babies later. Or four
[00:03:52] four rather. Yeah. Oh, fantastic. fantastic. But did you always want
[00:03:56] want children? Because, you know, know, it's one thing to say I want
[00:03:59] want to have a partner or I want want to, you know, build a life with
[00:04:03] with someone. But did you always always want to have. Your own children?
[00:04:05] children? Yes, yes. I always wanted wanted to have children. And like
[00:04:08] like I said, it was only the timing
[00:04:11] timing because the first time I got got pregnant I had, you know, we
[00:04:14] we were not married, I had not graduated. graduated. So this means I didn't
[00:04:17] didn't have a job. And he also was was young. So he also was just trying
[00:04:21] trying to stabilise in his employment
[00:04:24] employment and career. And so I found
[00:04:26] found that the timing was a bit not
[00:04:29] not as I expected for babies later
[00:04:31] later for babies later. Yeah, I am am really great news, but I want
[00:04:34] want you to talk to me about your your pregnancy journey, especially
[00:04:38] especially your first pregnancy. pregnancy. Yeah, with all the things things you were dealing with, you
[00:04:41] you had just finished school probably. probably. I don't know if you had
[00:04:44] had other plans and other dreams. dreams. Like you said, the timing timing was a bit off. Yeah. Of course.
[00:04:47] course. Talk to me about that pregnancy
[00:04:49] pregnancy journey. What was it like?
[00:04:51] like? It wasn't easy. I had to you you know, I had just graduated and
[00:04:55] and after graduation it's internship.
[00:04:57] internship. So I had to go through through internship as a pregnant
[00:05:00] pregnant intern. Wow. And you can
[00:05:03] can imagine it was quite OK. I mean,
[00:05:07] mean, everyone was friendly and wondering
[00:05:09] wondering if I'm OK to go to the the field and do assignments. When
[00:05:13] When I was about eight months when
[00:05:16] when it was now difficult, I my legs
[00:05:17] legs were starting to swell and I
[00:05:20] I had to take a break to just go go relax and wait for the arrival
[00:05:24] arrival of the baby. Tell me about about the first time you noticed.
[00:05:27] noticed. Look, something is off.
[00:05:30] off. The first time I noticed something something was off I was actually
[00:05:34] actually now a new mum. After delivery. delivery. The plan was that I stay
[00:05:37] stay with my in-laws and then at at this particular time there was
[00:05:41] was this sort of baby shower where where cousins come to see the baby.
[00:05:44] baby. Now when the baby has already
[00:05:47] already come and the first time I'm I'm not sure if I was noticing if
[00:05:51] if I'm not OK, but I did that two two years later and you know, did
[00:05:55] did an in retrospect, yeah. And it
[00:05:59] it was after the party and I was
[00:06:01] was it started with we call it mania
[00:06:05] mania or I was raving talking too
[00:06:06] too much. Unnecessary things and
[00:06:10] and I didn't even realise that I
[00:06:12] I was not OK. And then after that that it dipped and I was silent and
[00:06:16] and I was not talking to anyone for
[00:06:19] for so so several days, about four four days I wasn't talking, I wasn't
[00:06:23] wasn't taking care of my baby. I I wasn't taking a shower. I was not
[00:06:26] not eating. I was not breastfeeding.
[00:06:29] breastfeeding. So that's actually
[00:06:30] actually a crisis. As doctor Will
[00:06:33] Will will tell you. And I had to
[00:06:37] to be hospitalised. What was happening happening to your baby at the time?
[00:06:40] time? She was crying, I remember, remember, but I also don't remember
[00:06:44] remember having you know, I think think my family members just took took over and took care of, of the
[00:06:48] the baby. Of course she was struggling
[00:06:50] struggling because she was still still breastfeeding, not yet weaning.
[00:06:53] weaning. And I was here. I was not not being able to breastfeed at some
[00:06:57] some point she had to be given cow's
[00:07:00] cow's milk at that age. It's not
[00:07:02] not good for the baby's tummy. So So and then at some point they also
[00:07:06] also need, you know, they had to
[00:07:08] to do formula. And even in my culture,
[00:07:11] culture, we do breastfeeding for
[00:07:13] for six months exclusive. And for
[00:07:15] for two years, you know, with supplementary
[00:07:17] supplementary food. So she, I think
[00:07:21] think she wasn't OK. She wasn't very
[00:07:22] very OK. But my family members came
[00:07:25] came in and did what they needed needed to do while I was hospitalised.
[00:07:29] hospitalised. All right, let's pause pause there on the pregnancy journey.
[00:07:32] journey. I want to bring. In
[00:07:38] Want to bring in Doctor Lumu. At this point. Doctor Lumu, do you you think there are certain expectations
[00:07:41] expectations that people have of of motherhood or new mothers in this
[00:07:44] this case like Chabet being a mother?
[00:07:46] mother? Everyone paints this picture picture that it's, you know, the
[00:07:50] the happiest time of your life. It's
[00:07:53] It's going to be beautiful. And Doctor
[00:07:55] Doctor Lumu, do you think that these
[00:07:58] these expectations have any impact impact on, on the mental health of
[00:08:02] of the expectant mother? Oh most most definitely. They most definitely
[00:08:05] definitely do. Already, if you are
[00:08:09] are in a situation like Achebe's
[00:08:12] Achebe's case where she is now having
[00:08:14] having a baby out of wedlock, that's
[00:08:17] that's stressful. And also not living
[00:08:23] living up to those cultural or societal
[00:08:26] societal expectations. And the problem
[00:08:27] problem we have with stress and mental
[00:08:31] mental health is that stress actually
[00:08:33] actually increases the risk of mental
[00:08:35] mental health and mental health disorders.
[00:08:38] disorders. OK doctor Lumu let's pause
[00:08:40] pause there before we go further further in the conversation. I just
[00:08:43] just want to come back to Chabet.
[00:08:46] Chabet. Now. When did you get the
[00:08:49] the diagnosis to say OK, this is is postpartum psychosis. It took
[00:08:52] took it took about two years actually
[00:08:57] actually postpartum psychosis mostly mostly that is what Doctor Lumu will
[00:09:00] will tell you is, is when you have
[00:09:04] have bipolar disorder, you're predisposed
[00:09:06] predisposed to it. I was not diagnosed
[00:09:08] diagnosed with bipolar disorder and and I was not diagnosed with postpartum
[00:09:12] postpartum psychosis. It
[00:09:17] Psychosis. It came later. After. Now the first episode came came as postpartum psychosis and
[00:09:20] and then later on it came. Now I I was, you know, my kids were grown.
[00:09:23] grown. I think it was work stress
[00:09:26] stress that actually drove me into into an episode. And that's how they
[00:09:30] they concluded for bipolar. But now now for postpartum psychosis was
[00:09:34] was two years after when it happened
[00:09:37] happened with now two, all of my my children actually, the only difference
[00:09:41] difference is that the subsequent
[00:09:42] subsequent ones were less severe
[00:09:45] severe than the first one. OK, so
[00:09:47] so it takes time for a diagnosis diagnosis to be, you know, to be
[00:09:51] be detected. Detected. Yeah. OK.
[00:09:53] OK. Doctor Lumu is it common for
[00:09:57] for women to experience? Mental health
[00:10:00] health breakdowns. You know, during
[00:10:03] during or after pregnancies. So women
[00:10:05] women are more prone to having a
[00:10:08] a mental illness around the time
[00:10:10] time of pregnancy and delivery. And
[00:10:12] And this is mainly centred around around the fact that, you know, when
[00:10:16] when we are pregnant, we have these these pregnancy hormones which shoot
[00:10:20] shoot up and what tends to happen
[00:10:22] happen is during delivery after birth,
[00:10:24] birth, that sudden drop in those
[00:10:26] those pregnancy hormones predisposes
[00:10:30] predisposes women to mental illness. illness. Maybe there's an undiagnosed
[00:10:33] undiagnosed mental illness, as is
[00:10:35] is the case with Chabet. What happens
[00:10:39] happens with bipolar disorder, which
[00:10:41] which is a mood disorder? Often the
[00:10:43] the first diagnosis is made in the
[00:10:46] the postpartum period where women
[00:10:48] women can present with a severe postpartum
[00:10:52] postpartum depression or like in
[00:10:53] in Tibet's case a postpartum psychosis.
[00:10:57] psychosis. Postpartum psychosis. psychosis. Now, for some who may may not understand or have never
[00:11:01] never heard of it before, what is
[00:11:03] is it? What are the common symptoms
[00:11:05] symptoms and how do people get diagnosed?
[00:11:08] diagnosed? So postpartum psychosis
[00:11:11] psychosis is very rare. Actually,
[00:11:14] Actually, most people would get other
[00:11:16] other mental health related conditions
[00:11:19] conditions like depression is most
[00:11:21] most common in the postpartum period
[00:11:23] period and anxiety. But postpartum
[00:11:27] postpartum psychosis affects 1% of
[00:11:30] of people. So it's very rare but
[00:11:32] but very serious. It's a very severe
[00:11:35] severe form of mental health related
[00:11:38] related condition and why it is,
[00:11:41] is, is because psychosis results
[00:11:44] results in a person not really being
[00:11:48] being in touch with reality. The
[00:11:50] The brain has an overshoot or an
[00:11:53] an excess production of a certain
[00:11:55] certain brain hormone or neurotransmitter
[00:11:57] neurotransmitter that we call dopamine.
[00:12:00] dopamine. And this excess results
[00:12:03] results in an altered state of mind
[00:12:06] mind where the person might experience
[00:12:08] experience what we call delusions,
[00:12:11] delusions, which is an unusual, strange
[00:12:14] strange belief system. No one can
[00:12:17] can control it. You can't control control it. You can't snap out of
[00:12:21] of it. You can't, you know, just just tell the mother, go rest. You'll
[00:12:25] You'll be fine. It's important that
[00:12:27] that the mother gets help early.
[00:12:30] early. But what is distressing for
[00:12:31] for most people who go through postpartum
[00:12:36] postpartum psychosis is the hallucinations hallucinations where there are visual
[00:12:39] visual hallucinations. So the person
[00:12:43] person might see things or hear things
[00:12:46] things that are actually not there
[00:12:47] there in the form of voices. This
[00:12:51] This can be quite distressing for
[00:12:53] for the patient and is quite an a
[00:12:56] a very serious form of mental illness
[00:12:59] illness which would require hospitalisation.
[00:13:03] hospitalisation. OK, doctor Lumu, Lumu, I see you nodding quite a lot
[00:13:05] lot to some of the things that Doctor Doctor Lumu has been saying and listing
[00:13:08] listing out. Are there some of these these symptoms that you can identify
[00:13:12] identify with? Actually all of the the symptoms that Doctor Lumu is
[00:13:15] is talking about from delusions. delusions. So the, the detachment
[00:13:19] detachment for me was that I believed believed this baby is not mine. I
[00:13:22] I was, you know, given a different
[00:13:25] different baby. Yeah. At birth, maybe
[00:13:28] maybe she was switched at birth.
[00:13:31] birth. And so I was detached from
[00:13:33] from my baby thinking it's not my
[00:13:35] my baby. I was also the hallucinations
[00:13:38] hallucinations I had voices telling telling me I'm very bad mother. I
[00:13:42] I don't deserve to live. And they
[00:13:45] they were real to me at that time. time. That's why I can't. I could
[00:13:49] could not tell whether I was OK or
[00:13:50] or not. I was just out and out of
[00:13:54] of touch with reality. So it happened
[00:13:56] happened that also in terms of, you
[00:14:01] you know, beliefs, like I've said, said, believing that my baby was
[00:14:05] was not mine and also believing that that I was going to die, you know,
[00:14:09] know, soon. I mean, even in hospital,
[00:14:13] hospital, they were they had to do
[00:14:15] do IV injections for me and I believed
[00:14:17] believed that they wanted to kill kill me with that with the IV, although
[00:14:21] although I wanted to die at that that time, I was suicidal actually.
[00:14:24] actually. But there's that it's a a very thin line. You are suicidal,
[00:14:27] suicidal, but you're afraid of death. death. So it is a very conflicting
[00:14:31] conflicting state to be in. Were Were you still with your baby at at this point or no, at this point?
[00:14:34] point? Now my baby is taken away
[00:14:37] away from me but I remember being
[00:14:40] being with her in hospital at some
[00:14:43] some point with my mum. I don't remember remember everything in detail, but
[00:14:47] but my family was taking care of of my baby most of the time. Beyond
[00:14:50] Beyond the. Things that were going going through your mind, right? And
[00:14:52] And the beliefs that you had, I want
[00:14:55] want to know how you felt. Were you you feeling anything or were you
[00:14:59] you absent minded as well? Absent
[00:15:02] Absent minded, overwhelmed with guilt.
[00:15:04] guilt. And shame that I was a bad
[00:15:06] bad mother? You see now at this point
[00:15:09] point you already. The voices are are too loud and you believe those
[00:15:13] those voices that you're not a good good mother. And at this point I
[00:15:17] I was not in employment, so I believed believed I can't take care of this
[00:15:20] this baby, so I don't have the capacity. capacity. So then the delusions come
[00:15:23] come so that I can, you know, find find a way out. At that point you
[00:15:27] you believe that the best way out
[00:15:30] out is death or, you know, there's there's a better life after death.
[00:15:33] death. Talk me through the duration
[00:15:37] duration of let's call it a breakdown
[00:15:39] breakdown now from when you first first noticed that something was
[00:15:42] was off and when you went to seek
[00:15:45] seek help all the way to when you you started getting better, especially
[00:15:48] especially for the. First for the the first child. So for the first
[00:15:50] first child, I didn't know what I I was going through for about two
[00:15:54] two years. Really? Yes. So I yes,
[00:15:58] yes, it was a process. So the first
[00:16:00] first time I was admitted I had to
[00:16:02] to ask my mum and my uncle who was
[00:16:05] was then there for me, what was what
[00:16:07] what is my diagnosis? Because after after discharge there's a diagnosis
[00:16:11] diagnosis and what was written there there was, you know, delusional suicidal
[00:16:14] suicidal psychosis, psychotic. There There was no clear. So I had to pick
[00:16:18] pick what I read and feed it to the the internet to be able to understand
[00:16:22] understand what I was going through. through. And that took two years
[00:16:25] years to properly just understand understand and then come out now
[00:16:28] now to speak about it. And before before we talk about you speaking
[00:16:32] speaking about it in those two years, years, what was your relationship
[00:16:35] relationship with the baby after? after? After the first episode, there
[00:16:39] there was also a second episode and
[00:16:42] and my it was on and off when I whenever
[00:16:44] whenever I was now depressed, I'd I'd find myself being detached from
[00:16:48] from the baby and then the belief belief started coming again. But
[00:16:51] But of course, with medication therapy
[00:16:54] therapy and support from family they
[00:16:58] they I. They brought me back to reality.
[00:17:00] reality. And then of course I got
[00:17:02] got a job. So you see this it's a
[00:17:06] a 360 degree, you know, environmental
[00:17:10] environmental I'd say. Yeah, it takes
[00:17:12] takes it takes a lot of people and
[00:17:16] and institutions and things for you
[00:17:17] you to now come back to reality and
[00:17:20] and functioning. Although some medication
[00:17:22] medication would actually you know,
[00:17:25] know, make me unproductive in a way way that I can't, I can't you sleep
[00:17:29] sleep for longer hours than you're you're supposed to. So then you become
[00:17:32] become quite unproductive at work. work. And that's why I had to work
[00:17:35] work my way through because I need need to, you know, go about my daily
[00:17:39] daily activities. I want us to touch touch on the fact that after this
[00:17:43] this first episode with. The first first baby, you had other babies
[00:17:47] babies subsequently. Yes. And yeah,
[00:17:50] yeah, actually I went ahead to have
[00:17:51] have two more. So it didn't discourage
[00:17:55] discourage me in any way because because of the assurance, again,
[00:17:59] again, from my partner and my family. family. Yeah. Because one would say,
[00:18:02] say, you know, one. Would say, you you know, I've been through a lot.
[00:18:04] lot. I want some of my friends. Actually Actually after I started coming out
[00:18:08] out and speaking. I remember after after my first appearance on TV talking
[00:18:12] talking about that and the feedback feedback was like, I don't have other
[00:18:15] other children. Please just stop stop at that. It's too much on you.
[00:18:19] you. But it happened that I actually actually got encouraged and went
[00:18:22] went ahead to have two more babies
[00:18:26] babies because your experience should
[00:18:27] should not define your path for your
[00:18:30] your life. And it just because it it happened the first time, it doesn't
[00:18:34] doesn't mean it will happen again again the second time. Although as
[00:18:36] as Doctor Lumu would say, you are
[00:18:40] are predisposed but that actually actually makes you more aware and and alert. And that's what happened
[00:18:43] happened with my family members. members. So that the second time time when it happened, it wasn't
[00:18:47] wasn't that bad. I didn't even require require admission in hospital. I
[00:18:51] I just needed to be removed from
[00:18:53] from that environment where the triggers
[00:18:55] triggers were and taken to a more
[00:18:58] more safe and I mean secure for me
[00:19:01] me and I healed within a very short short time. I went back to work.
[00:19:04] work. OK. Yeah. All right. Let's Let's pause again and bring in. Doctor
[00:19:08] Doctor Lumu. There's something Chabad
[00:19:10] Chabad has said Doctor Lumu that
[00:19:12] that she became predisposed. Right.
[00:19:15] Right. Because it had the condition condition had happened before. She
[00:19:18] She had had a previous episode. Is Is that something that is a constant
[00:19:22] constant battle or it would go away away at some point? If you've had
[00:19:26] had a previous history of a breakdown
[00:19:30] breakdown or mental illness, you
[00:19:32] you are at higher risk with subsequent
[00:19:35] subsequent pregnancies. So I think,
[00:19:37] think, you know, in an ideal setting
[00:19:40] setting what should happen is screening.
[00:19:43] screening. Mothers need to be screened screened for a history of mental
[00:19:46] mental illness or a history of a
[00:19:49] a previous postpartum psychosis. psychosis. And unfortunately, in
[00:19:52] in most settings that doesn't happen
[00:19:55] happen because when we screen, then then we're able to prepare and we
[00:19:59] we are in a state now where the research
[00:20:03] research is out there and we do start
[00:20:06] start managing conditions in pregnancy. pregnancy. Right? Right. Doctor Lumu,
[00:20:09] Lumu, sorry to cut you there. I, I, but I just want to find out on
[00:20:13] on a wider scale when we hear things
[00:20:16] things like this, first of all, there there is that common belief that
[00:20:19] that people think it's a Western Western thing. You know, it's not
[00:20:23] not known in Africa. There is that that like you say, expectation that
[00:20:27] that a mother should automatically automatically love her baby and be
[00:20:30] be nurturing. But how prevalent are
[00:20:33] are these maternal mental health health conditions on the continent
[00:20:37] continent and how accessible is help?
[00:20:38] help? Actually. If we look at it
[00:20:42] it globally in high income countries, countries, maternal mental health
[00:20:46] health conditions, common ones such
[00:20:48] such as depression and anxiety happen
[00:20:53] happen in 1 in 5 women. So about
[00:20:56] about 20% on the continent. And I'll I'll take what, for example, what's
[00:21:00] what's happening in South Africa Africa with our research would which
[00:21:03] which would translate to the rest
[00:21:05] rest of the continent. It's up to
[00:21:08] to 30, sometimes 40%, meaning three
[00:21:12] three out of 10 or 4 out of ten or
[00:21:15] or up to 1 in 3 women have a potential
[00:21:20] potential common mental health condition, condition, such as depression or
[00:21:23] or anxiety. The issue is because
[00:21:27] because of stigma, because people
[00:21:28] people are scared of mental illness.
[00:21:31] illness. Culturally, people are scared
[00:21:33] scared to speak up when it it becomes
[00:21:36] becomes extreme. Like what Schibetta's
[00:21:39] Schibetta's experienced that a woman
[00:21:40] woman develops a post severe postpartum
[00:21:44] postpartum psychosis. That's when when we pay attention and it doesn't
[00:21:48] doesn't need to be that way when, when, as I've said, we have treatments
[00:21:51] treatments I. Want to bring in a.
[00:21:54] a. At this point in time when your
[00:21:57] your family took your baby and you
[00:21:59] you were getting help in the hospital.
[00:22:02] hospital. Beyond that help, what
[00:22:04] what else would you say you needed needed at that point? Was there something
[00:22:07] something you needed that you were
[00:22:09] were lacking? I wouldn't say that
[00:22:12] that I needed God but at that point
[00:22:16] point I was given. I was given medication,
[00:22:18] medication, I was given psychosocial psychosocial support in terms of
[00:22:22] of therapy. And my family also was,
[00:22:24] was, was there for me. So at that that point, of course, it was recovery
[00:22:27] recovery that I needed. I have been
[00:22:30] been OK for over two years now without without medication and I live a normal
[00:22:34] normal life. I'm employed, I have have my children, I take care of
[00:22:38] of them appropriately. As a mother. mother. I am a wife. And you know,
[00:22:41] know, it's possible to actually live
[00:22:44] live your life normally after that that postpartum psychosis or even
[00:22:47] even any mental health diagnosis. diagnosis. It's possible to live
[00:22:50] live your life normally. However, However, follow instructions of those
[00:22:54] those people around you, your family, family, the psychiatrist, the counsellor
[00:22:58] counsellor go through everything everything as prescribed and then
[00:23:01] then everything else will come as
[00:23:04] as as individual at individual level.
[00:23:06] level. Doctor Lumo spoke about, you
[00:23:09] you know, stigma. Is that something something you experience maybe from
[00:23:12] from the first episode or with subsequent
[00:23:14] subsequent children? Some someone someone told me, you know, you are
[00:23:18] are a psycho. How does your husband husband deal with you? Somebody said
[00:23:20] said that to you. Yeah. And I considered
[00:23:23] considered that a friend a very close close friend from high school. And
[00:23:27] And then there's also the self stigma. stigma. So for me to come out and
[00:23:30] and become a mental health advocate advocate or the mental health advocate
[00:23:33] advocate that I am now, I had to to overcome the self stigma. Yeah.
[00:23:37] Yeah. And just decide that, you know, know, this is for the sake of those
[00:23:41] those who are going through the same same or worse. OK. Yes. Thank you
[00:23:44] you so much. That was very wholesome.
[00:23:48] wholesome. It was great to share share for you to share your experience
[00:23:51] experience with us. And thank you
[00:23:52] you so much, Doctor Lumu, for bringing
[00:23:55] bringing in your expertise into this
[00:23:58] this conversation. Spoke about the
[00:24:01] the need to include mental health
[00:24:05] health care in ante-natal clinics. clinics. Is that something you. I
[00:24:08] I see you nodding. I want to believe believe that something you agree
[00:24:12] agree with doctor Lumu thank you you so much. So much for sharing
[00:24:16] sharing your expertise and that's
[00:24:17] that's it honestly for focus on Africa,
[00:24:20] Africa, the conversation. Please Please remember that this podcast
[00:24:24] podcast content does not serve as as a replacement for professional
[00:24:28] professional medical advice, diagnosis
[00:24:31] diagnosis or treatment. Always, always
[00:24:33] always seek the advice of your doctor
[00:24:36] doctor or qualified healthcare provider
[00:24:38] provider and don't forget to subscribe subscribe to BBC Africa to get the
[00:24:42] the latest content. You can also also reach out to me on social media
[00:24:46] media with the handle at I am Nkechi
[00:24:49] Nkechi and it's yours truly on Obinna. Obinna. I will definitely see you
[00:24:53] you next. Time.
[00:28:36] MUSIC
[00:28:43] For me, trust is about presence,
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[00:30:09] Hello. Live from London. This
[00:30:12] is BBC News. Voting is under way way in two German states as Chancellor
[00:30:16] Chancellor Friedrich Merz faces growing
[00:30:18] growing political pressure. The brother brother of Princess Diana Earl Spencer
[00:30:22] Spencer tells the BBC that there there are echoes of what happened
[00:30:24] happened to his sister in the way way the media is treating Prince
[00:30:28] Prince Harry and Meghan. It would would be really beholden on people
[00:30:31] people to learn from Diana's example. example. I'm not here to speak for
[00:30:34] for Harry and Meghan, but for anyone
[00:30:36] anyone who's being destroyed in this
[00:30:38] this way daily, it must be such a
[00:30:41] a cancerous influence in their life.
[00:30:43] life. Two people are reportedly killed
[00:30:46] killed after Ukraine carries out out large-scale drone attacks on
[00:30:49] on the Moscow region. Ed Sheeran Sheeran apologises for what he calls
[00:30:53] calls mistakes as he returns to the the stage for the first time since
[00:30:56] since rapper Macklemore was dropped dropped from his US tour over