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[00:00:08] MUSIC
[00:00:14] She was the most famous woman
[00:00:17] in the world. Next to Charles. And
[00:00:20] And I can't go wrong. He's there
[00:00:22] there with me. Married into the monarchy.
[00:00:26] monarchy. Destined to be queen. Her
[00:00:30] Her campaigning, her chosen causes
[00:00:31] causes broke convention and touched
[00:00:34] touched millions of lives. I'm only only trying to highlight a problem
[00:00:37] problem that's going on all around around the world. That's all. But
[00:00:41] But that. Fairytale became a nightmare.
[00:00:45] nightmare. Private unhappiness couldn't couldn't be hidden from the public
[00:00:48] public glare. Delight in her beloved
[00:00:51] beloved boys. One a future King came
[00:00:55] came with constant pursuit by the
[00:00:57] the press, admired and attacked on
[00:00:59] on a scale few public figures have
[00:01:01] have ever known. Diana was a phenomenon.
[00:01:14] phenomenon. Diana, Princess of Wales, Wales, has died after a car crash
[00:01:17] crash in Paris. But her extraordinary
[00:01:20] extraordinary life cut short her
[00:01:23] her death at 36 shocked the world.
[00:01:26] world. Her funeral stopped a nation.
[00:01:29] nation. It was her brother Charles Charles who spoke for her on that
[00:01:32] that day. I don't think she ever ever understood why her genuinely
[00:01:35] genuinely good intentions were sneered sneered at by the media, why there
[00:01:38] there appeared to be a permanent permanent quest on their behalf to
[00:01:41] to bring her down with an attack
[00:01:43] attack on those he says hunted and
[00:01:45] and harmed her and the palace establishment establishment that failed to protect.
[00:01:49] protect. The most modern of women. women. On a progress across Britain
[00:01:53] Britain with almost mediaeval overtones.
[00:02:01] overtones. It's only now Charles
[00:02:03] Charles Spencer is revealing his his full story. The tale of the woman
[00:02:07] woman he believes the world never
[00:02:11] never understood her former husband,
[00:02:14] husband, now on the throne. God save
[00:02:16] save the King. Receive the royal
[00:02:18] royal sceptre. His beloved sons are
[00:02:22] are bitterly split. A woman who will
[00:02:25] will always hold a place. In all
[00:02:28] all our history. It's a silhouette
[00:02:38] silhouette of Diana and a quote from from something she said just before
[00:02:41] before she died. People come from
[00:02:44] from all over the world. You know, know, it's astonishing to come and
[00:02:48] and pay tribute to Diana. There is
[00:02:51] is this extraordinary legacy that that goes on. Nearly 30 years on,
[00:02:55] on, where people feel this profound profound contact with her. And it's
[00:02:59] it's yeah, it's very humbling. These
[00:03:02] These are the grounds where Princess Princess Diana used to walk and play.
[00:03:06] play. This is all Thorpe, the Spencer
[00:03:08] Spencer family's ancestral home.
[00:03:10] home. The quiet place where now she
[00:03:13] she is laid to rest. There was controversy
[00:03:16] controversy in her life. There was
[00:03:18] was controversy in her death, her
[00:03:21] her unhappiness with the man. Now
[00:03:23] Now King, her fame, her legacy still
[00:03:25] still bitterly argued over just as
[00:03:29] as disputes rage between the two
[00:03:31] two sons she left behind. You dedicate
[00:03:36] dedicate this book to everyone who,
[00:03:38] who, like you, has lost a brother brother or a sister. The difference
[00:03:42] difference for you is everyone knows knows how your sister died, but you've
[00:03:45] you've never really talked about about those awful hours. When the
[00:03:48] the news came through, when the horror horror of what happened became clear.
[00:03:52] clear. So let's go back in time. time. How did you find out? Well,
[00:03:55] Well, I was living in South Africa Africa at the time in Cape Town,
[00:03:58] Town, and I got a call in the middle
[00:03:59] middle of the night and it was my
[00:04:02] my sister Jane, and she said, don't don't worry Diana's been in a car
[00:04:06] car crash, but it's not too serious.
[00:04:09] serious. And I thought, OK, well well even if it's not serious, I I can probably find out what's happening
[00:04:13] happening on the news. And then I I through the night I watched the
[00:04:17] the TV news unfurling and then I
[00:04:19] I kept getting more and more distressing
[00:04:22] distressing calls from home, from
[00:04:23] from my sister. And then it escalated
[00:04:26] escalated after a few hours to I I heard my brother in law in the
[00:04:29] the background who Robert Fellows Fellows used to work for the Queen Queen as her private secretary. And
[00:04:33] And I heard him go, oh, no! And then
[00:04:38] then my sister Jane said, I'm afraid
[00:04:40] afraid she's died. So that's how
[00:04:42] how it started in my life. In that
[00:04:45] that night as a little prang. And
[00:04:48] And then it became a broken leg,
[00:04:50] leg, perhaps a head injury and then
[00:04:53] then death. And in your book, you
[00:04:57] you recount how your little girl
[00:04:59] girl Eliza said, she's not dead in in real life, is she? Yeah. It was
[00:05:03] was really heartbreaking. I was alone alone in the house with my four children
[00:05:06] children who were very small at the the time, and my three little girls
[00:05:09] girls came tumbling through into into the kitchen. And Diana had just
[00:05:12] just been staying with us a few months months earlier in Cape Town. So when
[00:05:15] when I said, I'm afraid I got this this terrible news and they just
[00:05:18] just looked up at me and I said, said, yes, I'm afraid Aunt Diana's
[00:05:21] Diana's died. And that's what Eliza
[00:05:23] Eliza said. Not in real life, daddy. daddy. Utterly heartbreaking. But
[00:05:27] But as you were making preparations preparations to get back here to
[00:05:30] to the family ancestral home, although
[00:05:33] although you had another call, a a call from Prince Charles. Of course,
[00:05:37] course, now the King. What did he
[00:05:39] he say and how did he sound? Well,
[00:05:43] Well, I was rushing around the house house preparing the children and
[00:05:45] and all of that sort of thing for
[00:05:47] for the day ahead. And I remember remember picking up the telephone.
[00:05:50] telephone. I was upstairs in my house
[00:05:52] house in Cape Town, and he was telling
[00:05:55] telling me how he had told the boys, boys, William and Harry at Balmoral
[00:05:59] Balmoral and broken the news to them.
[00:06:01] them. And I. I felt, as I say in
[00:06:04] in the book actually I felt there there was a sort of giddy tone. I'd
[00:06:08] I'd had a lot of calls that day from
[00:06:10] from people who cared, who were stunned
[00:06:12] stunned like we all were. And I just
[00:06:15] just felt there was a lightness in in his tone about Diana's death that
[00:06:19] that really jarred with me. You write
[00:06:22] write that he was giddily elated
[00:06:25] elated like a lottery winner. I mean, mean, you're suggesting he was somehow
[00:06:28] somehow pleased that his former wife
[00:06:32] wife was dead? I well, I'm reporting
[00:06:35] reporting every word in this book. book. I report exactly as I saw it
[00:06:39] it and felt it at the time. And I
[00:06:42] I was surprised at the giddiness giddiness of his tone. That's what
[00:06:46] what I'm recording there. It's an
[00:06:48] an incredibly damning thing to say, say, though, about his reaction to
[00:06:52] to the death of the mother of his his children. And you go on to write,
[00:06:56] write, I suspect the prince's reaction reaction must have been to think
[00:06:59] think more of how this event might might free him to marry the woman
[00:07:03] woman he loved, rather than appreciating appreciating the loss of the one
[00:07:07] one he did not. You're suggesting suggesting there in black and white
[00:07:10] white that the now King felt that
[00:07:14] that Diana's death was rather convenient
[00:07:16] convenient because he would be able able to marry Camilla. That is how
[00:07:20] how I felt at the time. From the
[00:07:22] the tone of his voice. So I've only only ever had two calls from him
[00:07:26] him and they were both around this this time. One was on the day of
[00:07:29] of Diana's death and one was a couple couple of days later. But are you
[00:07:33] you sure that's what he was thinking? thinking? I mean, she cannot. Be
[00:07:36] Be sure. I'm saying that's what I
[00:07:39] I assume from the tone is a possibility. possibility. And that's all I can
[00:07:43] can do. As you mentioned, there was
[00:07:46] was then a second call, another phone
[00:07:49] phone call between you and the former former Prince Charles as you were
[00:07:52] were planning Diana's funeral. Now Now we know there were huge ructions
[00:07:56] ructions behind the scene at that that time of massive grief. What
[00:08:00] What kind of event should it be? be? Who should be in charge? And
[00:08:03] And there was an instruction from from the palace that her two beloved
[00:08:07] beloved boys should walk behind the
[00:08:09] the coffin through the streets of
[00:08:11] of London. You tried to stop that
[00:08:14] that happening, but what happened happened in that conversation with
[00:08:18] with Charles? I was having a phone
[00:08:22] phone conversation with a colonel colonel from the household at Buckingham
[00:08:25] Buckingham Palace, and as he was was about to finish our conversation,
[00:08:27] conversation, he said. And it's been
[00:08:30] been agreed that the two young princes princes will walk behind their mother's
[00:08:33] mother's coffin. And I said, well, well, of course that's not going
[00:08:36] going to happen. It just seemed so so monstrous. And he said, well,
[00:08:40] well, it's been decided it will. will. And I said, but my sister wouldn't
[00:08:43] wouldn't have wanted that. And he
[00:08:45] he sort of coughed politely and the the conversation came to an end.
[00:08:48] end. And then quite soon after that,
[00:08:51] that, a sort of dedicated phone line
[00:08:53] line in my office went again. And
[00:08:55] And it was the then Prince of Wales Wales saying, I gather you've got
[00:08:58] got a problem with the funeral service. service. And I was thinking, no,
[00:09:02] no, I haven't, because I was thinking thinking of the structure of the
[00:09:05] the actual service in Westminster
[00:09:08] Westminster Abbey. And then he said, said, but I gather you don't think
[00:09:11] think William and Harry should walk walk behind Diana's coffin? And I
[00:09:13] I said, well, of course not, sir.
[00:09:15] sir. She wouldn't want it. And then
[00:09:18] then he said, well, I walk behind behind Lord Mountbatten's coffin.
[00:09:21] coffin. And I said, yes, but you you were 30 and he wasn't your mother.
[00:09:25] mother. And then to be I mean he
[00:09:27] he went ballistic would be the right
[00:09:29] right term and started really going going for my family as a whole about
[00:09:33] about their sense of duty not being
[00:09:35] being adequate enough and ranted
[00:09:38] ranted for a while. I have no idea idea how long, but it was a significant
[00:09:41] significant period and I just listened. listened. And then he stopped and
[00:09:44] and I thought, oh, now now he's going going to pull himself together and
[00:09:47] and say something more appropriate.
[00:09:49] appropriate. And then he said, we'll
[00:09:51] we'll forget her soon enough. What
[00:09:57] What went through your mind? Well, Well, I'm. Not sure I can say exactly exactly what went through my mind,
[00:10:01] mind, but I really was so stunned.
[00:10:03] stunned. And I just after a stunned
[00:10:06] stunned silence, I said, I cannot cannot believe you just said that.
[00:10:09] that. And I hung up on him. You know
[00:10:15] know that. Buckingham Palace has
[00:10:18] has already said with a degree of
[00:10:22] of fury. That that didn't happen.
[00:10:25] happen. I just. Haven't actually, actually, Laura, they've sort of of smudged that one haven't they?
[00:10:29] they? They said that recollections recollections may vary. Well, let
[00:10:31] let me read you exactly what the
[00:10:33] the palace has said. They've said
[00:10:37] said His Majesty is mindful that
[00:10:39] that the pain of fraternal grief
[00:10:42] grief can cloud reason affect judgement
[00:10:45] judgement and colour memory in ways
[00:10:48] ways others do not recognise. Even
[00:10:51] Even many years after such a loss.
[00:10:55] loss. The King is plainly furious. furious. Buckingham Palace almost
[00:10:59] almost never issues any kind of statement. statement. Well, is he. Furious or
[00:11:02] or is he embarrassed? Because I can can tell you here and now those are
[00:11:05] are exactly the words he said. I've I've only ever had two calls on the
[00:11:08] the line with Prince Charles at any any stage of my life. I was hyper
[00:11:12] hyper alert to what he was saying, saying, and those are precisely the
[00:11:15] the words he said. And I promised promised that to you. Now, genuinely,
[00:11:18] genuinely, that is what he said. said. I don't hear him saying he
[00:11:22] he didn't say that. Did you write
[00:11:26] write it down? Did you keep a diary? diary? Do you have evidence that
[00:11:30] that that is what he said at the the time? Because to be fair, this
[00:11:33] this was a time of massive shock
[00:11:35] shock and emotion for both of you.
[00:11:39] you. I told friends and family straight straight away close friends and family
[00:11:43] family about what had been said because because it was so monstrous. And
[00:11:46] And then beyond that it very much much informed. This was just before
[00:11:50] before I really tackled the eulogy.
[00:11:51] eulogy. You can see evidence of that
[00:11:56] that conversation in the final eulogy. eulogy. I really stressed Diana's
[00:11:59] Diana's sense of duty. Duty comes comes across very clearly in the
[00:12:03] the eulogy, and then it culminates culminates in something which I think
[00:12:06] think really underlines the truth truth of my assertion here can I.
[00:12:10] I. Which is if you get to the final
[00:12:13] final bit of my eulogy, it is, you
[00:12:15] you know that her fantastic qualities qualities will never be extinguished
[00:12:19] extinguished from our minds. It was was a direct rebuttal of we'll forget
[00:12:23] forget her soon enough. Above all,
[00:12:26] all, we give thanks for the life life of a woman. I'm so proud to
[00:12:28] to be able to call my sister. The
[00:12:32] The unique, the complex, the extraordinary
[00:12:34] extraordinary and irreplaceable Diana
[00:12:36] Diana whose beauty both internal internal and external, will never
[00:12:40] never be extinguished from our minds.
[00:12:43] minds. Which Charles are the public public meant to believe? Are they
[00:12:46] they to believe you or are they to
[00:12:50] to believe the King, the head of of state of this country who's giving
[00:12:53] giving the impression very forcefully
[00:12:57] forcefully that this didn't happen? happen? Who are we to believe? Well,
[00:13:00] Well, I'm telling the truth. To the
[00:13:04] the King is giving an impression impression to the country. That's
[00:13:07] That's not true. Misleading people, people, even lying. I can hardly
[00:13:11] hardly be responsible for what Buckingham Buckingham Palace says. All I can
[00:13:14] can tell you is what was said and and what I heard and what shocked
[00:13:17] shocked me. What else would have
[00:13:19] have made me hang up on the King
[00:13:21] King that day? It was something as
[00:13:24] as outrageous as that slur against
[00:13:26] against Diana. What do you think
[00:13:30] think that her sons, his sons, your
[00:13:34] your nephews who you vowed so publicly,
[00:13:36] publicly, so movingly to protect
[00:13:39] protect will think when they hear
[00:13:41] hear you saying that revealing these
[00:13:44] these words nearly three decades decades on which you know, are bound
[00:13:47] bound to stir up huge amounts of
[00:13:49] of pain and anger. Well, I don't
[00:13:53] don't like to talk about what I've I've been speaking about to William
[00:13:56] William and Harry, but this will will not be a surprise to them. I
[00:13:59] I will tell you that these words
[00:14:01] words will not be a surprise to them.
[00:14:04] them. But what are they to make of
[00:14:08] of that? As human beings you're telling
[00:14:10] telling the world their father said,
[00:14:12] said, don't worry, everyone will
[00:14:15] will forget your dead mother. I have have a duty, you know, as an eyewitness
[00:14:19] eyewitness to history. And it's my
[00:14:21] my duty in my. The final season of
[00:14:24] of my life. This was very much a a spur for me to write this now was.
[00:14:28] was. Both my parents died in their
[00:14:30] their 60s. I'm in my 60s. I'm aware
[00:14:33] aware of mortality. And I wanted wanted to just put things down once
[00:14:36] once and for all that were true.
[00:14:38] true. And part of the spine of my
[00:14:42] my book is the construction of my
[00:14:45] my eulogy. I know this is not a threat.
[00:14:47] threat. It's a fact. I know lots
[00:14:49] lots of things about the King, which
[00:14:53] which I chose not to include in the the book because they were not relevant.
[00:14:56] relevant. I'm a historian. I've worked
[00:14:58] worked for decent news organisations organisations like yourself and it
[00:15:02] it was just my duty to lay it out. out. There is a reason why those
[00:15:05] those words were in my eulogy, and
[00:15:07] and I have to give that reason. Sounds
[00:15:11] Sounds a bit like a threat if you're you're saying you know other things
[00:15:14] things about the King that could could be damaging to him. No, not
[00:15:17] not at all a threat. It's just the the reality. I want to give the context
[00:15:20] context of what I said and what I I didn't say. I'm not threatening.
[00:15:23] threatening. I've got no interest.
[00:15:25] interest. I'm not a salacious writer
[00:15:27] writer on any level. But I just the
[00:15:30] the point being that if I was a salacious
[00:15:33] salacious writer and wanted to write write that sort of thing, I have
[00:15:37] have plenty of other things I could could have said and really have no
[00:15:39] no interest in doing so. One of the
[00:15:44] the other things that your sister
[00:15:46] sister told you as her marriage was
[00:15:49] was breaking down, you recount a
[00:15:51] a story where she says she's going
[00:15:53] going to get divorced because, and
[00:15:55] and I quote, my husband is in love
[00:15:58] love with his valet. Now you say
[00:16:01] say you never asked who that was
[00:16:04] was or why she believed it. Yet you
[00:16:07] you have printed it repeating what
[00:16:12] what is an incendiary claim suggesting suggesting that the King, the now
[00:16:15] now King, was in love with, we assume
[00:16:18] assume would be a male member of
[00:16:20] of staff. Do you believe that to
[00:16:23] to be true? I know Diana said that that to me and that's why I recorded
[00:16:26] recorded it. So it's in the context context of a conversation where Diana
[00:16:31] Diana is telling me that her marriage marriage is over, and I remember remember it very well. We were at
[00:16:34] at a restaurant called San Lorenzo
[00:16:37] Lorenzo and in London and she said
[00:16:41] said to me, Carlos, which is what what she called me, I am going to
[00:16:44] to get divorced. And I knew her marriage marriage was rocky, but I had no
[00:16:47] no idea that that was where she was
[00:16:49] was headed. And so I just said to
[00:16:53] to her, look, I obviously I totally totally support whatever decision decision you made. I know it's not
[00:16:56] not a decision you'll have made lightly, lightly, but I do worry. I said,
[00:17:00] said, I do worry that the public
[00:17:02] public will really be in a way angry angry with you for killing the fairytale
[00:17:06] fairytale that they've all subscribed subscribed to. And those are the
[00:17:09] the words she said to me. You say say though in the book it was an
[00:17:13] an improbable claim and therefore therefore to include it in the book
[00:17:17] book when it is improbable, when when you know that this will be incendiary incendiary to many people's ears.
[00:17:21] ears. And also you're a historian historian of great renown and used
[00:17:25] used to dealing with sources and
[00:17:27] and evidence. Some people might wonder
[00:17:30] wonder if you have included that
[00:17:32] that claim, which you can't verify.
[00:17:35] verify. Well, I can absolutely swear
[00:17:37] swear that she said those words to
[00:17:39] to me. But in terms of proving that
[00:17:42] that that happened, I just wonder wonder and you know, this will be
[00:17:45] be the case that some people listening
[00:17:47] listening will wonder if you are
[00:17:50] are including some of these allegations
[00:17:52] allegations in order to create interest
[00:17:56] interest to sell your book. Perhaps Perhaps you may be accused of that.
[00:17:59] that. You know that. Of course, I've I've been accused of lots of things.
[00:18:02] things. I remember straight after
[00:18:03] after delivering the eulogy, I became
[00:18:06] became a bit of a tabloid punchbag. punchbag. So I'm used to when I speak
[00:18:09] speak up for Diana, I'm used to brickbats brickbats coming my way. That's what
[00:18:13] what happens. My job, though, is is at the end of the day, I think
[00:18:16] think we have to get back to why why I wrote this. It's a brother's
[00:18:20] brother's tribute, a loving tribute
[00:18:21] tribute to a sister. And I think
[00:18:24] think she deserves honesty. So that's that's what I've delivered. Do you
[00:18:27] you feel that people have sometimes
[00:18:32] sometimes misunderstood that? Of Of course she had these huge struggles,
[00:18:35] struggles, these huge agonies, but but actually there was another side
[00:18:38] side to her that, you know, leaps leaps off the many of the pages of
[00:18:41] of your book. She was just phenomenally phenomenally good fun. We grew up
[00:18:45] up together. I mean, it was never never a dull moment. We both have
[00:18:48] have ADHD. She was never diagnosed, diagnosed, but clearly we did. I
[00:18:52] I got a letter from a nanny recently recently who was lovely, and she
[00:18:54] she said you were a bit of a handful. handful. And I think we probably
[00:18:58] probably were. But the but not nothing
[00:19:00] nothing malicious, just a lot of
[00:19:03] of energy and humour, you see, I I wanted to get across that Diana
[00:19:07] Diana was such a breath of fresh
[00:19:08] fresh air. She was also a complicated
[00:19:12] complicated person and under all all of that pressure she did also
[00:19:15] also want to tell her story and you
[00:19:19] you introduced her to Martin Bashir,
[00:19:22] Bashir, then of the BBC, the journalist journalist who conned her into giving
[00:19:26] giving an interview by using the
[00:19:29] the wildest of claims. Now, after
[00:19:31] after years of investigations, the the BBC has eventually apologised
[00:19:35] apologised for their part in all
[00:19:36] all of that. But do you think that
[00:19:40] that that interview, what happened
[00:19:42] happened then is linked even indirectly
[00:19:46] indirectly to her finding herself herself in Paris on the night of
[00:19:49] of her death, getting into that car
[00:19:52] car and ending up in that crash, crash, do you make that connection?
[00:19:55] connection? I do make it as a connection,
[00:19:58] connection, not the connection. So
[00:20:00] So Diana was under huge pressure
[00:20:03] pressure and particularly after she
[00:20:05] she separated, I do think with Panorama,
[00:20:09] Panorama, yes, they conned Diana.
[00:20:10] Diana. They also conned me by showing
[00:20:13] showing false bank statements to
[00:20:15] to me to get to Diana by saying that
[00:20:17] that somebody else had missed had
[00:20:20] had been deceiving her. But what
[00:20:23] what happened? The consequences of
[00:20:26] of Diana being told you cannot trust
[00:20:30] trust anyone meant that she was alone
[00:20:32] alone that night. Really. And I think think that she was convinced that
[00:20:35] that her she got rid of her driver. driver. Totally innocent man was
[00:20:39] was told that he couldn't be there. there. He wouldn't have been in Paris.
[00:20:42] Paris. But police bodyguards, you you know, private protection officers, officers, they got rid of two. And
[00:20:46] And I think that's really it all all builds to people said, oh, she
[00:20:50] she was paranoid. She wasn't paranoid. paranoid. She was convinced that
[00:20:53] that she couldn't trust people because because the evidence was there. And,
[00:20:57] And, you know, I think that left left her vulnerable that night. She
[00:21:00] She had also by that point she'd
[00:21:04] she'd lost her security. She'd had had her title taken away from her
[00:21:07] her too, by the Royal Family. That's
[00:21:09] That's happened to one of her sons,
[00:21:12] sons, Harry. He's had his title taken
[00:21:15] taken away. He's losing a fight to
[00:21:18] to get his security back. How do do you think Harry and his family
[00:21:22] family have been treated by the Royal Royal Family? I would feel very reluctant
[00:21:25] reluctant to get involved in this
[00:21:27] this discussion. I would say that
[00:21:32] that I personally worry about the
[00:21:34] the fifth in line to the throne who
[00:21:36] who served in the military, not having having any police protection. It
[00:21:39] It does worry me not politically,
[00:21:41] politically, not because I can influence influence Ravec or whatever they
[00:21:45] they called the security people, people, but just as an uncle, I do
[00:21:49] do worry about the security aspect
[00:21:50] aspect titles. I you know, I know
[00:21:54] know I've got one, but I don't really really use it. So titles are not
[00:21:57] not very important to me. So I would
[00:22:01] would just say from a security aspect, aspect, as an uncle who's seen his
[00:22:04] his sister die in very, very preventable
[00:22:08] preventable circumstances that I I would veer towards protection.
[00:22:12] protection. But do you fear there there is somehow an an echo of what
[00:22:15] what happened to Diana? You know, know, Harry has said on many occasions
[00:22:18] occasions that he hasn't felt supported supported by the institution over
[00:22:21] over the choices that he's made with with his life. Do you worry about
[00:22:24] about there being an echo of what what happened to your sister? I think
[00:22:28] think there's a perception in the the media that I'm on Harry's side.
[00:22:32] side. Well, I'm on my deceased sister's
[00:22:35] sister's son's side, both of them. them. And if either of them wanted wanted anything, then I'd be equally
[00:22:39] equally there for them. And I never
[00:22:41] never get involved in one camp or
[00:22:44] or the other except as a benign figure.
[00:22:47] figure. I hope that's my role. Do
[00:22:49] Do you think Diana would identify
[00:22:52] identify with the attention, the the focus that has been put on them?
[00:22:55] them? And with Meghan, who said she she felt like she was the most trolled trolled person in the world, you
[00:22:59] you know, they were here during the the summer not so long ago. If you
[00:23:03] you look at an article in a tabloid
[00:23:07] tabloid about Diana or the couple
[00:23:09] couple that you're mentioning, Harry Harry and Meghan, you know, it's
[00:23:13] it's they can be really, really unpleasant. unpleasant. And I think it would
[00:23:17] would be really beholden on people people to learn from Diana's example.
[00:23:20] example. I'm not here to speak for for Harry and Meghan, but for anyone
[00:23:24] anyone who's being destroyed in this
[00:23:26] this way daily, it must be such a
[00:23:28] a cancerous influence in their life. life. I saw it with Diana, I saw
[00:23:32] saw Diana, I mentioned it in the the eulogy, her tears of despair.
[00:23:36] despair. One of the problems with with Diana was she was very, very
[00:23:39] very sensitive to criticism. And And of course, I'm sure most of your
[00:23:43] your viewers now think, oh, she had had this splendid life and it was was all amazing. And she didn't.
[00:23:46] didn't. She was so privileged and and so perfect in so many ways. But
[00:23:50] But she was really brought low by by all that criticism. And yeah,
[00:23:53] yeah, I suppose it's a pity when
[00:23:55] when I see echoes of that. Now you've
[00:23:58] you've written about the monarchy monarchy over the ages and goodness goodness knows in history there have
[00:24:02] have been plenty of splits between between the Spencers and the Windsors.
[00:24:05] Windsors. But there's now a very very bitter, difficult split inside
[00:24:09] inside the Windsor family between between the two boys. You've said
[00:24:13] said you don't want to take sides sides but what do you think their
[00:24:16] their mother would say to them about
[00:24:19] about the division between them? them? There's a lot of reasons on
[00:24:22] on both sides why this has got to
[00:24:24] to this stage and as an uncle I hope
[00:24:28] hope one day it's resolved. But I I don't know. I certainly don't know
[00:24:31] know what's been done in the finer
[00:24:34] finer detail. And so I would feel feel intrusive if I got more involved
[00:24:38] involved than to say, of course a a mother would want her two sons
[00:24:42] sons to be happy together and love love each other. Do you believe in
[00:24:45] in the monarchy? Well, I believe believe it exists and I believe it
[00:24:49] it will continue to exist and. I
[00:24:55] I think monarchies are generally generally a. When they work, they they work really well. I'm married
[00:24:59] married to a Norwegian and their
[00:25:02] their monarchy is absolute. It's It's so admirable. I really have
[00:25:05] have a lot of time for it. I. I haven't
[00:25:08] haven't got a. I think monarchy is is absolutely fine. I'm probably
[00:25:12] probably with the majority of the the British people. You think God,
[00:25:14] God, who do you get as a president?
[00:25:16] president? And that's quite worrying. worrying. Some of the politicians
[00:25:20] politicians who might go for that
[00:25:22] that role, who would be less appetising
[00:25:25] appetising than a monarch. I find find some of the flummery around
[00:25:27] around monarchy quite jarring. You
[00:25:31] You know, you mentioned the statement
[00:25:33] statement earlier. His Majesty says says I just don't think it's healthy
[00:25:37] healthy for a human being to be seen
[00:25:41] seen in such archaic servile terms.
[00:25:44] terms. So I'm a bit more I'm all
[00:25:46] all for a monarchy, but I like a
[00:25:48] a modern monarchy. Do you support
[00:25:51] support this monarchy and this monarch? monarch? Because some of the claims
[00:25:55] claims in your book are incredibly
[00:25:59] incredibly damning of the monarch monarch of this country, who also
[00:26:02] also people watching will remember
[00:26:05] remember has been seriously ill in
[00:26:06] in this last year. The family has
[00:26:09] has had illness and strife and upset
[00:26:13] upset and division. Do you support
[00:26:16] support this monarchy? I do. You
[00:26:19] You have a funny way of showing it?
[00:26:22] it? Well, I'm not dealing with King King Charles as monarch in this book.
[00:26:26] book. This is all 30 odd years ago.
[00:26:28] ago. And what was said and done then.
[00:26:30] then. There are so many memories
[00:26:32] memories in the book and it's feels feels very meaningful to sit in this
[00:26:36] this house where much of what you you recount took place, even though
[00:26:39] though this wasn't your happy family family home. Well, my fondest memories
[00:26:42] memories of Diana tend to be from from our happy childhood home, which
[00:26:46] which was before this, which is Park
[00:26:47] Park House in Sandringham in Norfolk,
[00:26:51] Norfolk, just it wasn't even though
[00:26:53] though we had the rupture of my parents
[00:26:57] parents divorce, it was such a happy happy home. And it's just those days,
[00:27:00] days, their carefree days. So not not an instance, but a period of
[00:27:04] of life. And I tell you, it really really breaks me up when I look at
[00:27:08] at old photographs of Diana as a a child and then think what happened
[00:27:11] happened to her? It's terribly sad.
[00:27:16] sad. How much do you miss her? Well,
[00:27:21] Well, every day, you know, that's that's the thing with sibling loss.
[00:27:23] loss. You never get over it. Do you
[00:27:31] you think there may be a time where
[00:27:34] where you've used the phrase get
[00:27:37] get over, but reading a book and
[00:27:40] and given how this has all played
[00:27:41] played in public, there is a sense
[00:27:44] sense that somehow what happened happened to her has understandably
[00:27:48] understandably almost consumed you
[00:27:50] you at times. I have a very. Luckily
[00:27:53] Luckily I have a hugely diverse and and happy life. One of the reasons
[00:27:56] reasons I call this swansong actually actually is because it's my sign
[00:27:59] sign off. I have been Diana's brother.
[00:28:02] brother. This is my final take on
[00:28:04] on the situation and I have a wonderful,
[00:28:08] wonderful, happy life. Gorgeous children,
[00:28:10] children, fabulous wife and we live live this much more normal life than
[00:28:14] than this looks like. And that's
[00:28:16] that's my future. This is my swan
[00:28:18] swan song too. I'm not here to bang
[00:28:21] bang on about Diana. This is my final
[00:28:24] final word. Celebration of her. And
[00:28:27] And I will step off into the sunset
[00:28:29] sunset now and not be available for
[00:28:32] for comment. But there will be, as
[00:28:35] as we've discussed, a lot of turbulence,
[00:28:39] turbulence, a lot of anger, perhaps perhaps a lot of divisions stirred stirred up by some of the more eye
[00:28:42] eye catching claims that you have
[00:28:45] have made. And some people might
[00:28:49] might wonder just maybe, as maybe
[00:28:51] maybe in every family, some family
[00:28:53] family secrets are better left unsaid. unsaid. They certainly are. And they
[00:28:57] they have been left unsaid. Will
[00:29:01] Will you say more? You've said no.
[00:29:03] no. That's it. That's me done. Tears.
[00:29:07] Tears. My 62. You don't need those.
[00:29:16] those. MUSIC
[00:29:17] MUSIC
[00:29:29] Hello. I'm Samantha Simmonds and we were watching their Laura
[00:29:33] Laura Kuenssberg interview with Earl
[00:29:35] Earl Charles Spencer about the revelations revelations in his book to be published
[00:29:39] published in the next few days. Well, Well, with me now to discuss that
[00:29:42] that interview is our senior royal royal correspondent, Daniela Relph.
[00:29:44] Relph. Hi, Daniela. Good to see you.
[00:29:46] you. A lengthy, detailed interview interview with Earl Spencer there
[00:29:50] there about the revelations in his his book, The Impact They've Had,
[00:29:54] Had, why he's doing this now. What What struck you the most about that
[00:29:57] that interview? That conversation? conversation? I found it a really
[00:29:59] really compelling watch actually actually hearing what we've really really been reading about for the
[00:30:03] the past few days actually. Now hearing hearing him sit down and say it and
[00:30:07] and talk in great detail about those
[00:30:10] those really difficult days in the the time after the death of Diana,
[00:30:14] Diana, between her death and the the funeral, the complex relationships
[00:30:17] relationships at play, he was, as as we have read directly, critical
[00:30:21] critical of the King and some of of the things he says the King did
[00:30:24] did and the way he behaved. So hearing
[00:30:27] hearing that so directly for him him from him was interesting. He
[00:30:30] He was calm. He was cool in his recollections. recollections. He seemed very considered
[00:30:34] considered in what he had to say. say. You know, he did occasionally
[00:30:37] occasionally say, this is how I remember remember it. These are my recollections.
[00:30:40] recollections. I can't tell you whether whether this is true or not, but
[00:30:43] but this is what I remember. And And it was very compelling to hear
[00:30:47] hear him. He spoke about the reaction
[00:30:50] reaction from the palace as Laura Laura said, you know, it had been
[00:30:53] been denied and he pushed back. He He said, well, actually it hadn't hadn't been denied. They've kind
[00:30:56] kind of fudged it. They he referred referred to this kind of recollections recollections may vary