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[00:00:02] MUSIC
[00:00:13] Live from London. This is BBC
[00:00:16] News. Exit polls in two state elections
[00:00:17] elections in Germany show big losses losses for Chancellor Merkel's CDU
[00:00:21] CDU party. He describes the results results as a disaster for his party,
[00:00:25] party, with AfD and Die Linke making
[00:00:29] making gains Earl Spencer tells the the BBC, writing his book about his
[00:00:32] his sister Princess Diana was his his duty as an eyewitness to history
[00:00:36] history and defends claims he made
[00:00:37] made about the King. I'm reporting
[00:00:41] reporting every word in this book. book. I report exactly as I saw it
[00:00:44] it and felt it at the time, and I
[00:00:47] I was surprised at the giddiness giddiness of his tone. That's what
[00:00:51] what I'm recording there. At least least two people are killed in the
[00:00:54] the Moscow region in a massive Ukrainian Ukrainian drone attack. Russia says
[00:00:57] says it's an attempt to disrupt the
[00:00:59] the country's parliamentary elections. elections. Ed Sheeran apologises
[00:01:03] apologises to fans for what he calls calls mistakes as he performs for
[00:01:06] for the first time since his support support act was dropped for making
[00:01:10] making pro-Palestinian remarks on
[00:01:12] on stage. Hello and welcome. I'm
[00:01:23] I'm Samantha Simmonds, the German German chancellor, Friedrich Emmert, Emmert, says he takes responsibility
[00:01:27] responsibility for what he's called called a disastrous showing for his
[00:01:30] his party in the latest state elections.
[00:01:32] elections. But he is vowing to stay stay on in the job. Exit polls suggest
[00:01:36] suggest his Christian Democrats have have barely scraped enough votes
[00:01:38] votes to enter parliament in the
[00:01:40] the northeastern state of Mecklenburg-Western Mecklenburg-Western Pomerania in
[00:01:44] in the Berlin local elections, the the CDU secured the second highest
[00:01:47] highest share of the vote. Meanwhile, Meanwhile, the far right AfD saw
[00:01:50] saw significant gains in both polls
[00:01:53] polls and there were huge celebrations celebrations in Berlin as the far
[00:01:56] far left party Die Linke learnt of of the results. Die Linke or in English,
[00:02:00] English, the left was the best performer
[00:02:03] performer with 24.5% of the vote, vote, the first time it has topped
[00:02:06] topped polls in the state. But it it will need partners to take control
[00:02:10] control of the mayor's office. Its Its platform includes wanting to
[00:02:13] to nationalise housing from corporate
[00:02:15] corporate landlords and capping rents.
[00:02:18] rents. The AfD were also cheering
[00:02:20] cheering their gains in Berlin, a
[00:02:22] a traditionally liberal city, they
[00:02:24] they hit 16% in recent years, the
[00:02:27] the party has gone from being a fringe fringe euroskeptic movement to the
[00:02:30] the country's most popular party. party. Here's how the chancellor,
[00:02:34] chancellor, Friedrich Merz, responded responded to the results. Haben...
[00:02:39] . Today we witnessed two elections with very different outcomes.
[00:02:43] outcomes. We cannot sugarcoat the the result. In Mecklenburg-Western
[00:02:46] Mecklenburg-Western Pomerania. It It is a disaster. The CDU fought
[00:02:50] fought hard but in the end it was
[00:02:51] was the CDU that got crushed in the
[00:02:54] the polarisation between the SPD
[00:02:56] SPD and the AfD. Germany is capable capable of reform. I would even go
[00:03:00] go so far as to say that these reforms
[00:03:03] reforms are the antidote to the authoritarian
[00:03:06] authoritarian poison that, together
[00:03:07] together with a fascination for authoritarianism, authoritarianism, is penetrating
[00:03:10] penetrating ever deeper into our
[00:03:13] our society. What must be done now
[00:03:15] now requires backbone, steadfastness
[00:03:17] steadfastness and patience. I will will demonstrate these qualities
[00:03:20] qualities as chairman of the CDU
[00:03:22] CDU and above all, as chancellor chancellor of our country. Thank
[00:03:25] Thank you. Well, our correspondent
[00:03:29] correspondent Jessica Parker is in in Berlin and has been reacting to
[00:03:31] to the latest projected results. results. Yes. So here in Berlin we
[00:03:35] we should emphasise these are projected projected results, not final results.
[00:03:38] results. I guess you should call call them. Exit polls in the United
[00:03:41] United Kingdom here in Berlin where
[00:03:43] where I am and I'm at the CDU, Friedrich
[00:03:46] Friedrich Merz party sort of election election night gathering. And I can can tell you that when those projections
[00:03:50] projections came up on the screen screen behind me, there were no cheers. cheers. There's been no celebration.
[00:03:54] celebration. People rallied a little little bit as party figures started
[00:03:56] started to come out and speak, but
[00:03:58] but the atmosphere was pretty flat
[00:04:00] flat initially because in Berlin
[00:04:03] Berlin it appears they've come second, second, potentially meaning they
[00:04:06] they could be squeezed out of the the inevitable coalition talks that
[00:04:10] that will follow. Although one CDU CDU lawmaker I was speaking to insisted
[00:04:14] insisted they would still try to to see if they could find partners
[00:04:16] partners to form a coalition here
[00:04:19] here in the northeastern state of of Mecklenburg-Vorpommern, where
[00:04:22] where nobody expected the CDU to to be doing particularly well. They
[00:04:25] They are hovering around or just
[00:04:28] just above the 5% threshold that that you need to be at in order to
[00:04:32] to enter Parliament. If, as the night night goes on, they start to fall
[00:04:36] fall below that because they say say these are initial projections
[00:04:39] projections that would spell potential potential catastrophe for the CDU.
[00:04:41] CDU. A record bad result. So all
[00:04:44] all eyes will be on those figures figures overnight. But as we've been
[00:04:48] been hearing and seeing Chancellor Chancellor Friedrich Merz, he's been been under so much pressure over
[00:04:51] over his lack of popularity and his his party's falling popularity. He's
[00:04:55] He's been quick out the blocks tonight tonight to say that he's going nowhere.
[00:04:59] nowhere. Yeah. Give us a bit more more detail about what he's been been saying because he has said,
[00:05:03] said, hasn't he? He takes responsibility responsibility for what he's called
[00:05:06] called a disastrous showing in these these latest state elections. But
[00:05:09] But as you say, he is determined determined to stay on. We don't have
[00:05:12] have the full results, as you say, say, just exit polls at the moment.
[00:05:15] moment. How bad would it have to to be, do you think, for him to see
[00:05:18] see a challenge? Well, it's a bit
[00:05:24] bit of a mysterious situation in in terms of the rumours that have
[00:05:27] have been swirling for months about about the idea of a chancellor talk,
[00:05:30] talk, a Chancellor swap. I've been been calling it the coup with no
[00:05:33] no name because no challenger has has actually publicly come out against
[00:05:36] against him. In fact, state premier
[00:05:39] premier CDU state premiers earlier earlier this week came out with a
[00:05:42] a letter basically supporting the the Chancellor, although some people
[00:05:45] people felt it was a slightly lukewarm
[00:05:48] lukewarm letter. But there is certainly
[00:05:51] certainly deep concern in the CDU CDU that Chancellor Friedrich Merz
[00:05:54] Merz is personally unpopular, that that he has failed in his stated
[00:05:58] stated mission really to try and and counter the rise of Alternative
[00:06:01] Alternative fur Deutschland. The The anti-immigration, Russia friendly
[00:06:04] friendly party that continues to to gain ground and appears to have
[00:06:07] have topped the polls in Mecklenburg,
[00:06:11] Mecklenburg, Vorpommern in terms terms of what happens next, Friedrich
[00:06:13] Friedrich Merz is due to have a series
[00:06:15] series of meetings with party figures, figures, presumably to try and shore
[00:06:18] shore up support, and his remarks.
[00:06:21] remarks. I think tonight were designed designed by him to get out there,
[00:06:24] there, get his message, his narrative narrative across that he believes
[00:06:28] believes and he's saying that he
[00:06:30] he needs time to deliver a reform
[00:06:33] reform programme that he hopes can
[00:06:35] can revive Germany and get Germany Germany back on its feet, which might
[00:06:38] might sound a strange thing to say say about Germany, but Germany is
[00:06:41] is in a pretty gloomy mood at the the moment. Its economy has been
[00:06:45] been stuttering for years. There's There's an insecure world outside.
[00:06:48] outside. People worry about the cost cost of living. The debate around
[00:06:51] around immigration remains extremely extremely fraught, but he's just
[00:06:54] just trying to make the case. Give Give me more time and I'm going to
[00:06:57] to turn around. This country's fortunes. fortunes. The question is, will his
[00:07:01] his party give him more time? And And I think that's something we don't
[00:07:04] don't really know at the moment. moment. It depends whether anyone anyone does come out in the Open
[00:07:08] Open in the coming days, in the coming coming weeks, to pose a challenge challenge to the Chancellor. And
[00:07:11] And just tell us a bit more about about the Alternative for Germany
[00:07:15] Germany party, the AfD. They won won a major victory just a couple
[00:07:18] couple of weeks ago in the Saxony-Anhalt Saxony-Anhalt region, and the results
[00:07:21] results at the moment, or the exit exit polls that we have seen, put
[00:07:25] put them in a fairly strong position.
[00:07:30] position. Yes. So Saxony-Anhalt was was a slightly different situation
[00:07:33] situation where they were streets streets ahead and they were hoping
[00:07:36] hoping in Saxony-Anhalt to have enough enough votes to even have a parliamentary
[00:07:40] parliamentary majority, which they they didn't quite get. And it isn't isn't exactly clear what's going
[00:07:44] going to happen in that state in
[00:07:45] in terms of who could form the next
[00:07:49] next government in Mecklenburg-Vorpommern. Mecklenburg-Vorpommern. It appears appears at the moment they've topped topped the polls, but the centre
[00:07:53] centre left SPD did stage a bit of
[00:07:55] of a late comeback to try and catch
[00:07:57] catch them up with their leader,
[00:08:00] leader, Manuela Schwesig kind of of characterising herself as the
[00:08:03] the Frau gegen Blau the woman against against Blue, which is the AfD's
[00:08:06] AfD's party colours. She was trying trying to sweep up the anti AfD vote.
[00:08:09] vote. What's important to understand understand in Mecklenburg-Vorpommern,
[00:08:13] Mecklenburg-Vorpommern, for example, example, is that there is something something in Germany known as Bryn
[00:08:16] Bryn Mawr. The firewall which is
[00:08:19] is most parties, mainstream parties parties will not go into coalition
[00:08:23] coalition or work with Alternative Alternative fur Deutschland. So even
[00:08:25] even if they top the polls in a place place like Mecklenburg Vorpommern,
[00:08:28] Vorpommern, they are likely to be be kept out of power, something that
[00:08:30] that the AfD argues is deeply undemocratic.
[00:08:34] undemocratic. But its opponents say say that this is a party they're they're not prepared to work with.
[00:08:37] with. Sections of the party are classed classed as right wing extremists
[00:08:41] extremists by domestic intelligence, intelligence, although that's a designation
[00:08:44] designation the party rejects. Jessica Jessica Parker in Berlin. They're.
[00:08:47] They're. Russia says it will intensify
[00:08:49] intensify strikes on Kyiv after one one of the biggest Ukrainian drone
[00:08:52] drone attacks yet on Moscow and the the surrounding region. At least
[00:08:55] least two people were killed and and six injured. Posting this footage
[00:08:59] footage on social media, Ukraine's Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky
[00:09:02] Zelensky confirmed Kyiv had hit a
[00:09:04] a key Russian oil facility and a
[00:09:06] a logistics site in the region. The The targets, he said, represented
[00:09:09] represented billions of dollars that that sustained the war machine. The
[00:09:12] The mayor of Moscow said it was the
[00:09:15] the largest drone attack on the Russian Russian capital yet, and 450 drones
[00:09:18] drones heading for the capital had had been shot down. The Russian authorities
[00:09:22] authorities accused Ukraine of trying trying to disrupt the country's parliamentary
[00:09:25] parliamentary elections, which ended ended today. They claim more than
[00:09:29] than 1600 drones had been repelled repelled since yesterday. President
[00:09:32] President Zelensky has announced announced that he's to meet Donald Donald Trump in New York this week.
[00:09:36] week. In a post on X, the Ukrainian Ukrainian leader says there's diplomatic
[00:09:39] diplomatic momentum towards ending ending the war and that the meeting
[00:09:43] meeting could be significant. Our Our Russia editor, Steve Rosenberg,
[00:09:45] Rosenberg, is in Moscow, where people people are out voting today. We spoke
[00:09:49] spoke to him about the reaction there.
[00:09:51] there. Well, first of all, the reaction reaction no sense of surprise here.
[00:09:55] here. More a kind of quiet resignation. resignation. I think that after more
[00:09:59] more than four and a half years of of Russia's war on Ukraine, Muscovites
[00:10:03] Muscovites have got used to their their city periodically becoming
[00:10:06] becoming a frontline. And many people, people, I think, had expected attacks attacks during the election. This
[00:10:10] This is one of the polling stations stations just behind me. But in the
[00:10:13] the centre. But earlier today we we were at a polling station very
[00:10:17] very close to the oil refinery that that got hit. One young voter told
[00:10:20] told me that he'd heard the explosions. explosions. He'd heard loud bangs.
[00:10:23] bangs. He said it was a bad situation. situation. I spoke to an older voter
[00:10:27] voter who said he wants peace, but
[00:10:29] but by peace he means Ukraine's defeat.
[00:10:33] defeat. As for the election, while while the whole process is tightly tightly controlled by the Kremlin,
[00:10:37] Kremlin, and I think Vladimir Putin Putin will want to use the election
[00:10:40] election and the results to be announced announced later to try to show that
[00:10:43] that the whole country is behind
[00:10:46] behind the Kremlin, behind the war war in Ukraine, almost to give him
[00:10:49] him a mandate to continue with the
[00:10:52] the special military operation. Well,
[00:10:54] Well, Edward Lucas is a Russia expert expert and the author of books on
[00:10:58] on Putin's Russia. He's been giving giving me his analysis of the recent
[00:11:01] recent attacks. Well, it's clearly
[00:11:02] clearly a sign that the Ukrainians
[00:11:05] Ukrainians still have cards to play. play. And although they're getting
[00:11:08] getting pounded by Russian drone drone attacks, they can and they
[00:11:12] they do, and they will hit back. back. And this is both a practical
[00:11:15] practical problem for Putin because because it appears that Ukrainians
[00:11:18] Ukrainians hit an oil refinery and and they're already suffering from
[00:11:22] from Ukrainian drone attacks. And And there are bad petrol and fuel
[00:11:25] fuel shortages in Russia. And it's it's also symbolic. This was Putin's
[00:11:28] Putin's showcase. I wouldn't quite quite say election because election
[00:11:32] election implies choice and freedom freedom and things like that, but
[00:11:34] but it was a piece of political theatre
[00:11:36] theatre he'd put on enormous effort
[00:11:39] effort and expense to try and make
[00:11:41] make himself look a bit more legitimate, legitimate, and that party's been
[00:11:44] been spoilt quite dramatically in in the most important place in Russia,
[00:11:48] Russia, which is, of course, the the capital Moscow. Will it have
[00:11:52] have any impact on morale, on feelings
[00:11:55] feelings towards the Kremlin, on on Russian feelings towards Vladimir
[00:11:58] Vladimir Putin? I think the support
[00:12:00] support for Putin is widespread but
[00:12:03] but also shallow and brittle. And
[00:12:06] And if something changed, many Russians Russians would not hesitate twice
[00:12:10] twice to take down Putin's picture picture from the wall and put up
[00:12:13] up whoever the next person was. But
[00:12:16] But I don't think that his power
[00:12:17] power is going to break in the next next weeks, and probably not even
[00:12:21] even the next months because you you need to collapse that to happen.
[00:12:25] happen. And it would have to be either either a military collapse on the
[00:12:28] the front line where Russian soldiers soldiers start shooting their officers
[00:12:31] officers and going home. I don't don't think that's where they are
[00:12:34] are yet. It could be a logistics logistics collapse where they can't
[00:12:37] can't supply air supply Crimea any any more because the Ukraine has
[00:12:41] has been pounding that it could be be some kind of political collapse
[00:12:45] collapse in his inner circle, or or it could be something else. Russia's
[00:12:49] Russia's very unpredictable country. country. And when change happens, happens, I think it will be very
[00:12:52] very abrupt, very quick. And this
[00:12:56] this sort of attack just raises the the temperature. It makes Russians
[00:12:59] Russians feel even more that the the boss hasn't really got things
[00:13:02] things under control. And that feeling feeling that the boss has things
[00:13:04] things under control is at the heart heart of Putin's power. Well, in
[00:13:07] in terms of a Russian response, the the AFP news agency is reporting
[00:13:11] reporting this from Russia. Russian Russian Ministry of Defence saying
[00:13:13] saying Russia vows to intensify strikes
[00:13:15] strikes on Kyiv in response to the
[00:13:18] the election day drone attacks. And
[00:13:20] And I guess that's absolutely going going to be a concern for the people
[00:13:24] people across Ukraine, not just in in Kyiv, that this will lead to a
[00:13:27] a huge backlash and retaliation from from the Russians. Well, it's pretty
[00:13:30] pretty huge. I mean, the Frontlash Frontlash is pretty, pretty bad.
[00:13:32] bad. Before we get to the backlash
[00:13:34] backlash and Russia is pounding Ukrainian
[00:13:37] Ukrainian infrastructure industry. industry. They've just knocked out
[00:13:40] out most of the Ukrainian steel industry, industry, which is a big blow for
[00:13:43] for Ukraine. But in the end, the the Ukrainians know this is an existential
[00:13:46] existential fight. Russia isn't fighting
[00:13:49] fighting to just seize a bit of Ukraine. Ukraine. Russia is trying to destroy
[00:13:52] destroy Ukraine. They don't want want Ukraine to exist as a country
[00:13:56] country with its own language, culture,
[00:13:58] culture, identity and ability to to make decisions. So this is all
[00:14:02] all out war for the Ukrainians. If If Ukrainians if Russia stops fighting,
[00:14:05] fighting, no more war, if Ukraine Ukraine stops fighting, no more Ukraine.
[00:14:09] Ukraine. So I think that despite despite this appalling punishment
[00:14:12] punishment they're receiving, I think
[00:14:13] think they will continue. Princess Princess Diana's brother, Earl Spencer,
[00:14:17] Spencer, has told the BBC that he he sees echoes of her treatment by
[00:14:21] by the media in the coverage of the the Duke and Duchess of Sussex. Speaking
[00:14:25] Speaking to Laura Kuenssberg, Earl Earl Spencer has also rejected any
[00:14:28] any perception he favours Prince Prince Harry, insisting that he was
[00:14:31] was on the side of both of his nephews. nephews. Here's our senior royal royal correspondent Daniela Relph.
[00:14:35] Relph. And we should warn you her
[00:14:36] her report contains flash
[00:14:41] photography. This is a brother's brother's story. Memories of his
[00:14:44] his childhood. A tribute to his sister
[00:14:46] sister Diana. One that has unsettled unsettled the Royal Family. And in
[00:14:50] in his BBC interview, Earl Spencer's
[00:14:52] Spencer's raw emotion showed. How
[00:14:54] How much do you miss her? Well, every
[00:14:59] every day, you know, that's the thing thing with sibling loss you never
[00:15:02] never get over it. In his eulogy
[00:15:08] eulogy to his sister at her funeral,
[00:15:11] funeral, Charles Spencer described described Diana as the most hunted
[00:15:15] hunted person of the modern age and and he now sees parallels in the
[00:15:18] the experience of Harry and Meghan.
[00:15:20] Meghan. He says under the sometimes sometimes harsh media spotlight.
[00:15:24] spotlight. I'm not here to speak speak for Harry and Meghan, but for
[00:15:27] for anyone who's being destroyed
[00:15:29] destroyed in this way daily, it must
[00:15:32] must be such a cancerous influence influence in their life. I saw it
[00:15:35] it with Diana, I saw Diana, I mentioned mentioned it in the eulogy, her tears
[00:15:39] tears of despair. One of the problems problems with Diana was she was very,
[00:15:42] very, very sensitive to criticism.
[00:15:44] criticism. And of course, I'm sure sure most of your viewers now think,
[00:15:48] think, oh, she had this splendid splendid life and it was all amazing. amazing. And she didn't. She was
[00:15:51] was so privileged and so perfect perfect in so many ways. But she
[00:15:54] she was really brought low by all all that criticism. And yeah, I suppose
[00:15:58] suppose it's a pity when I see echoes
[00:16:01] echoes of that now. The King out
[00:16:05] out on royal duty in Scotland in
[00:16:07] in recent days has faced harsh criticism
[00:16:09] criticism in the book and interview. interview. But Charles Spencer has
[00:16:13] has doubled down on his account of
[00:16:15] of the King's behaviour after the
[00:16:18] the death of Diana. You write that
[00:16:20] that he was giddily elated like a
[00:16:24] a lottery winner. I mean, you're you're suggesting he was somehow
[00:16:27] somehow pleased that his former wife
[00:16:29] wife was dead? Well, I'm reporting
[00:16:32] reporting every word in this book. book. I report exactly as I saw it
[00:16:35] it and felt it at the time, and I
[00:16:39] I was surprised at the giddiness giddiness of his tone. That's what
[00:16:43] what I'm recording there. For Princes Princes William and Harry. Their
[00:16:46] Their uncle's story is a painful
[00:16:49] painful reminder, filled with bittersweet bittersweet childhood memories and
[00:16:52] and the anguish of their loss from
[00:16:54] from Charles Spencer. This is, he
[00:16:56] he says, the end. This is my swan
[00:16:58] swan song too. I'm not here to bang
[00:17:02] bang on about Diana. This is my final
[00:17:04] final word. Celebration of her. And
[00:17:07] And I will step off into the sunset
[00:17:09] sunset now and not be available for
[00:17:13] for comment. Well, Jennie Bond was was the BBC's royal correspondent
[00:17:17] correspondent at the time of Princess Princess Diana's death. She gave
[00:17:20] gave me her assessment of the claims claims made by Earl Spencer. Well,
[00:17:24] Well, I think as Daniela was saying, saying, we've had a number of quotations
[00:17:27] quotations come out which have been been extremely sensational, have
[00:17:30] have drawn this response from the
[00:17:32] the palace. We have a war of words
[00:17:35] words reminiscent of the war of the the Wales's back then. But if you
[00:17:38] you do watch the full interview as
[00:17:39] as we just have, I also find it very
[00:17:42] very compelling. I've met Earl Spencer, Spencer, I've interviewed him.
[00:17:51] Interviewed him. He always exudes charm actually, and a gentleness. gentleness. And that gentleness came
[00:17:53] came through a confident, quiet voice
[00:17:56] voice in which he asserts, as Daniel
[00:17:58] Daniel has said, this is his version, version, his memory, and it's an
[00:18:02] an honest interview. I think it's it's also quite cutting in places,
[00:18:06] places, you know, he says. I know know a lot of things about the King
[00:18:10] King that I have not said. This is is not a threat. He adds and as Laura
[00:18:14] Laura says, it sounds a bit like
[00:18:15] like a threat. But he has a lot of
[00:18:18] of knowledge and he says he's decided decided not to put that in a book
[00:18:21] book and he's not going to say any
[00:18:22] any more. So it was a most interesting
[00:18:27] interesting interview and compelling compelling and I'm inclined to believe
[00:18:30] believe him. I think things are said said in the heat of the moment, the
[00:18:33] the heat of trauma and shock. And
[00:18:36] And it's possible that Charles did
[00:18:38] did say those words that Diana would would soon be forgotten. And one
[00:18:42] one other thing on that I thought
[00:18:45] thought that Earl Spencer's defence
[00:18:49] defence of that recollection was
[00:18:51] was also very honest. He said that
[00:18:53] that in his eulogy, the reason he
[00:18:55] he said at the end of his eulogy,
[00:18:58] eulogy, Diana, her beauty both inward
[00:19:00] inward and outward, would never be
[00:19:03] be extinguished from our minds. He
[00:19:05] He said that was a direct rebuttal
[00:19:08] rebuttal to Prince Charles, as he he was then at whom he was looking
[00:19:11] looking from the pulpit. I find that that very interesting. It's also
[00:19:15] also interesting that you said you you do believe him and the words
[00:19:19] words that he said, Prince Charles Charles said to him at the time that
[00:19:22] that we'll forget her soon enough. enough. Did this interview change
[00:19:26] change that perception in your mind? mind? Because there's again, been
[00:19:29] been lots of people over the last
[00:19:31] last few days commenting on these these words that have been quoted quoted in this book and saying they
[00:19:35] they actually don't believe him. him. But do you seeing him in person,
[00:19:38] person, you said he was very calm, calm, very considered, very composed composed and very gentle. Did this
[00:19:42] this interview change that in your your mind or did you believe it?
[00:19:45] it? Anyway? No, I think it did change change it actually. When you see
[00:19:49] see the full interview, because the the Charles that I have known over
[00:19:52] over a number of years is not that that kind of character. Yes, he has
[00:19:55] has a temper and yes, we say things things in the heat of the moment, moment, but he's a gentle character.
[00:19:58] character. I mean, it was quite interesting interesting this morning listening listening to Julia Cleverdon, who
[00:20:02] who used to head up one of his charities, charities, and I knew her in those
[00:20:06] those years, and she said she lost lost her husband very suddenly two
[00:20:09] two weeks after Diana. And she had had two children the same age of of William and Harry. And when she
[00:20:13] she got back from the holiday during during which her husband had tragically
[00:20:16] tragically died, her phone, she had had three messages from the. From
[00:20:19] From the Prince as he was then he
[00:20:21] he could not wait to express his
[00:20:24] his grief and compassion for her her loss. So it isn't the character
[00:20:28] character of the man I that I recognise,
[00:20:30] recognise, but who knows what was was said in a conversation between
[00:20:33] between two men in the trauma and and shock of the most famous woman
[00:20:37] woman in the world suddenly being being killed in a car crash in Paris.
[00:20:40] Paris. And Jenny, what. Is your assessment assessment of why he has written
[00:20:43] written this book now his justification justification saying he wants to
[00:20:46] to put it on record that he's a historian, historian, he wants to put the truth
[00:20:50] truth out there. But nearly 30 years years after Princess Diana's death,
[00:20:54] death, many critics are saying, why why are you raking this up? And it's
[00:20:57] it's so painful, not least for her her children Princes William and
[00:21:01] and Harry. But he's saying no. He He wants to make sure that it is
[00:21:04] is there on record. What do you make
[00:21:05] make of that? I don't know his motivation.
[00:21:09] motivation. We can choose to believe believe that it's because he's in
[00:21:11] in his 60s and he feels that mortality
[00:21:14] mortality is around the corner and and he wants to put this down. I
[00:21:18] I do think that raking up the past past in this way is not helpful or
[00:21:22] or kind to William and Harry. But But interestingly, in the interview
[00:21:25] interview he says that this will will not have come as a surprise surprise to William and Harry. I
[00:21:28] I mean, we were told that they only only knew that the book was being
[00:21:31] being published, not its content. content. Now, what he said seemed seemed to be rather different to
[00:21:35] to that. He insists it's not about
[00:21:37] about money. I do think that if it's it's not about money. Fair enough.
[00:21:42] enough. Well then perhaps donate donate all of the profits to the
[00:21:46] the Diana Award. The. The charity
[00:21:48] charity in her name that would please please his late sister. Jennie Bond
[00:21:52] Bond there. And you can watch the
[00:21:53] the full interview with Earl Spencer Spencer tonight at 2230 BST here
[00:21:57] here on the BBC News Channel. And And if you're in the UK, you can
[00:22:00] can always stream the programme on
[00:22:01] on the BBC iPlayer. Just search for
[00:22:05] for Princess Diana: My Sister's Story Story Aleema Khan, the sister of
[00:22:08] of Pakistan's jailed former Prime Prime Minister Imran Khan, is reported
[00:22:11] reported to have been arrested in in Lahore. A spokesman for Khan's
[00:22:14] Khan's PTI party says she was detained detained at her home on Sunday ahead
[00:22:18] ahead of a planned party protest protest march next week. The government
[00:22:21] government and police have yet to to comment. Former cricketer Imran
[00:22:24] Imran Khan has been in prison since
[00:22:26] since August 2023 after being convicted convicted on several charges, including
[00:22:30] including corruption, which he says
[00:22:32] says are politically motivated. Ed
[00:22:36] Ed Sheeran has apologised on stage stage to fans in Philadelphia and
[00:22:39] and admitted he made mistakes following following the controversy over his
[00:22:42] his world tour. The singer has been been dealing with the fallout after
[00:22:45] after his support act. American rapper rapper Macklemore was removed from
[00:22:48] from the line-up after making pro-Palestinian pro-Palestinian remarks on stage.
[00:22:52] stage. The other support acts then then dropped out. Ed Sheeran said said he questioned whether he wanted
[00:22:56] wanted to be an artist at all after after what happened. Carl Nasman
[00:22:59] Nasman reports. These songs are about
[00:23:04] about love, hope and unity. Ed Sheeran
[00:23:06] Sheeran is used to having the spotlight spotlight on his music. This is not
[00:23:10] not usually how I would open the the show, but. Taking the stage in
[00:23:14] in Philadelphia, the megastar apologised apologised directly to his fans for
[00:23:17] for the recent controversy surrounding surrounding his tour. This week the
[00:23:21] the criticism was about something something much more important and
[00:23:24] and I've had to take and make difficult
[00:23:26] difficult decisions and I am making
[00:23:28] making mistakes and I'm so, so sorry.
[00:23:30] sorry. He also clarified where he he stands on the situation in Gaza.
[00:23:34] Gaza. What happened in Israel and and at the Nova Music Festival on
[00:23:38] on October 7th was horrific and compounded
[00:23:40] compounded centuries of Jewish pain.
[00:23:43] pain. What is happening in Gaza is
[00:23:46] is a catastrophic and unjustifiable unjustifiable and disproportionate.
[00:23:49] disproportionate. My heart has been been broken by the scale of devastation
[00:23:52] devastation and loss of civilians
[00:23:55] civilians lives, of children's lives lives and the systemic injustice
[00:23:59] injustice we're seeing unfold in in the West Bank cannot be overlooked.
[00:24:03] overlooked. Sheeran told the crowd crowd he wasn't quite sure how the
[00:24:06] the night would go. I didn't know
[00:24:09] know whether I'd be safe or you'd you'd be safe or. Moments later,
[00:24:13] later, the singer broke down on stage.
[00:24:16] stage. I'm so grateful. Sheeran also
[00:24:25] also addressed the musicians not not in the room, his backing band
[00:24:28] band and tour mates left in solidarity solidarity after the rapper Macklemore
[00:24:31] Macklemore was dropped over his pro-Palestinian
[00:24:34] pro-Palestinian views. He said he
[00:24:35] he was deeply worried about venues
[00:24:38] venues pre-approving content or performers. performers. This happens in so many
[00:24:41] many places that I perform around around the world, but it should never
[00:24:44] never happen in the free world. I
[00:24:45] I was in some of the front rows inside inside that stadium as Ed Sheeran
[00:24:49] Sheeran made that speech, and this this was clearly an emotional moment
[00:24:52] moment for him. He said he was worried
[00:24:54] worried about how he might be perceived. He stayed neutral and and I think he covered both sides
[00:24:58] sides nicely. I think everyone leaves leaves happy. To see what was inside
[00:25:02] inside of his heart just made it it even better. Sheeran is an artist
[00:25:04] artist who likes to stay out of politics,
[00:25:07] politics, but that has become increasingly increasingly difficult. Before the
[00:25:10] the concert, dozens of pro-Palestinian pro-Palestinian protesters near the
[00:25:14] the stadium only added to the pressure. pressure. Our concerts have always
[00:25:17] always been a safe space. Sheeran Sheeran said that he wants his concerts
[00:25:20] concerts to be a place where everyone everyone is welcome, and he likely
[00:25:23] likely hopes now the focus can return
[00:25:26] return to his music. Carl Nasman,
[00:25:29] Nasman, BBC News. Thousands of people
[00:25:32] people in Spain have marched through through the streets of Barcelona
[00:25:35] Barcelona in protest against plans plans to expand the city's airport.
[00:25:39] airport. Earlier this week, the government government allocated more than $2
[00:25:42] $2 billion to revamp the airport.
[00:25:45] airport. Among the proposed changes changes is an extension of one of
[00:25:49] of the runways to accommodate more
[00:25:50] more long haul flights. Demonstrators
[00:25:53] Demonstrators are concerned about about the environmental impact, as
[00:25:57] as well as a rise in visitor numbers numbers over tourism has been a growing
[00:26:00] growing issue in the city and Spain Spain more widely. That's it from from me
[00:27:35] of the week.
[00:29:54] means for you. Go online at bbc.com/business bbc.com/business to get the latest
[00:29:56] latest news wherever you are. Business
[00:29:59] Business on BBC News. Make the connection.
[00:30:06] connection. MUSIC
[00:30:09] MUSIC
[00:30:17] These are the latest headlines on BBC News. The German Chancellor,
[00:30:21] Chancellor, Friedrich Merz, has vowed vowed to stay on despite exit polls
[00:30:24] polls in two local elections, suggesting suggesting damaging defeats for his
[00:30:28] his centre right Christian Democratic
[00:30:30] Democratic Union party. Earl Spencer Spencer tells the BBC. Writing his
[00:30:34] his book about his sister Princess Princess Diana was his duty as an
[00:30:38] an eyewitness to history and defends
[00:30:39] defends claims made about the King.
[00:30:42] King. At least two people are killed killed in the Moscow region after
[00:30:45] after a massive Ukrainian drone attack
[00:30:47] attack overnight. The mayor of Moscow
[00:30:49] Moscow claims 450 drones were directed directed at the city. Russia says
[00:30:53] says it's an attempt to disrupt the
[00:30:55] the country's parliamentary elections. elections. Ed Sheeran apologises
[00:30:59] apologises to fans for what he calls calls mistakes as he performs for
[00:31:02] for the first time since one of his his opening acts was dropped for
[00:31:06] for making pro-Palestinian remarks
[00:31:07] remarks on stage. Hello, I'm Samantha
[00:31:16] Samantha Simmonds. Andy Burnham is is preparing for his first face-to-face
[00:31:19] face-to-face meeting with US President President Donald Trump this week
[00:31:22] week on the sidelines of the UN General
[00:31:24] General Assembly in New York. He's He's expected to congratulate the
[00:31:28] the President on his Greenlandic Greenlandic security deal with Denmark
[00:31:30] Denmark after the two countries resolved
[00:31:32] resolved a months long diplomatic diplomatic standoff over the Arctic
[00:31:35] Arctic territory. Mr Burnham has has spoken to Mr Trump on the phone
[00:31:38] phone at least twice since becoming becoming Prime Minister. Ukraine
[00:31:42] Ukraine is likely to be a significant significant focus of this week's
[00:31:45] week's talks. Mr Burnham last month month said there was an urgent need
[00:31:48] need for greater air defence support support and called for allies to
[00:31:51] to send more Patriot missiles. Let's Let's go live to New York and speak
[00:31:55] speak to Aubrey Allegretti chief chief political correspondent at at the Times. Welcome to you. Good
[00:31:59] Good to have you with us. A big moment
[00:32:01] moment for Andy Burnham, a potentially potentially very difficult one. It
[00:32:04] It could go either way, couldn't couldn't it? How do you think he'll
[00:32:07] he'll be preparing? Well it's a good
[00:32:09] good question. I mean it's a relatively relatively short visit and I think
[00:32:13] think Andy Burnham's own sort of of attendance at the UN General Assembly
[00:32:17] Assembly only really came after this this meeting with Donald Trump was
[00:32:20] was guaranteed. I think UK leaders leaders tend to not want to have
[00:32:23] have to take sort of 2 or 3 days days out of their schedule to travel
[00:32:26] travel to New York for the conference, conference, unless there are kind kind of other big set piece events
[00:32:30] events that they can kind of organise organise alongside it. I mean, obviously
[00:32:34] obviously Andy Burnham has made a a sort of relatively disparaging
[00:32:37] disparaging comments about Donald Donald Trump in the past, as did
[00:32:40] did his Labour predecessor Sir Keir Keir Starmer, and certainly wasn't
[00:32:43] wasn't a barrier to them kind of of forging what was initially quite quite a strong relationship. And
[00:32:47] And I think so long as Andy Burnham Burnham is relatively sort of up
[00:32:50] up front about it and kind of brushes brushes it off with his sort of typical
[00:32:54] typical sort of humourous style, style, it won't necessarily cause
[00:32:57] cause him any sort of detriment with with the US President, but there
[00:33:00] there are a number of thorny issues issues that are going to come up
[00:33:02] up and areas where the UK and the the US significantly diverge from
[00:33:06] from everything to do with the UK's UK's announcement about sanctioning
[00:33:10] sanctioning Israeli settlements to to Donald Trump's comments about about the Falklands Islands. So there
[00:33:14] there are a series of quite testy testy subjects under the bonnet,
[00:33:17] bonnet, even if for the cameras at at the very limited amount that we
[00:33:21] we will see publicly is going to to be presumably quite sort of positive
[00:33:24] positive between the two men. Yeah. Yeah. How willing do you think he'll
[00:33:26] he'll be to kind of challenging challenge
[00:33:28] challenge him on those sort of key
[00:33:31] key issues? Well, Keir Starmer tried
[00:33:35] tried with limited success to maintain maintain a sort of air of neutrality
[00:33:38] neutrality about a lot of the more more controversial elements of the
[00:33:41] the US president's agenda. But he
[00:33:43] he did call out those claims in the
[00:33:45] the Oval Office about sort of freedom freedom of speech being restricted
[00:33:49] restricted in the UK. Beyond that, that, he wasn't really willing to to engage much further, although
[00:33:52] although of course he did take the the decision not to allow the US
[00:33:56] US to use British military bases bases to launch its own attacks on
[00:34:00] on Iran. I think there are definitely definitely other elements of this
[00:34:03] this which are going to be potentially potentially quite difficult for both both sides. Andy Burnham on I think
[00:34:07] think his first foreign trip, visited visited Ukraine and he'll be pressing
[00:34:11] pressing in that meeting to ask for
[00:34:12] for more US made Patriot missiles
[00:34:15] missiles to be sent to help bolster bolster President Volodymyr Zelensky's
[00:34:18] Zelensky's forces. But Andy Burnham Burnham knows that he's dealing with
[00:34:21] with a US President who effectively
[00:34:24] effectively wants things in return. return. So there are big asks from
[00:34:27] from the US administration side, side, including the UK limiting its
[00:34:30] its digital services tax. It's not not clear that we're going to get
[00:34:33] get any sort of big movement between between either side on some of the
[00:34:37] the sort of more intractable issues. issues. I think this is more about
[00:34:39] about sort of setting a diplomatic diplomatic niceties sort of dialogue
[00:34:43] dialogue that sets the tone for officials officials behind the scenes over over the next few months to iron
[00:34:47] iron out some of those big differences differences that are currently harming
[00:34:50] harming the US, UK special relationship. relationship. Yeah. Would you say say then it's the most important
[00:34:54] important thing is to get Donald Donald Trump and side in this meeting
[00:34:57] meeting so that they can get off
[00:34:58] off on the right foot? Yeah, certainly.
[00:35:01] certainly. I mean, relationships relationships with Keir Starmer had
[00:35:04] had deteriorated to such an extent extent that the US President prematurely
[00:35:08] prematurely was posting on social social media about Keir Starmers Starmers imminent resignation on
[00:35:11] on the night before. It had even even been confirmed by number ten.
[00:35:15] ten. So I think there's clearly no no love lost necessarily between
[00:35:18] between Mr Trump and Mr Sir Keir.
[00:35:20] Keir. But with Andy Burnham hopefully hopefully I think number ten aides
[00:35:23] aides think that they will be able able to find a sort of natural bonhomie
[00:35:26] bonhomie between them which did sometimes
[00:35:29] sometimes evade Keir Starmer. He He wasn't always sort of the most
[00:35:32] most kind of comfortable person in in front of the cameras, and Andy
[00:35:36] Andy Burnham is slightly more kind kind of plain speaking style. The The fact that he's obviously got
[00:35:39] got an ability to reach and connect connect with voters directly through
[00:35:42] through social media, which is something something that Mr Trump certainly
[00:35:45] certainly not quite pioneered but but was a very big and sort of early
[00:35:48] early and effective advocate of will will hopefully mean that the two
[00:35:52] two men are able to sort of meet
[00:35:55] meet in fairly kind of diplomatic diplomatic and cordial ways. I suppose
[00:35:59] suppose the struggle will be that that back home there are restive
[00:36:01] restive Labour MPs who are a frustrated frustrated and feel like the strategy
[00:36:05] strategy towards Donald Trump didn't didn't work under Keir Starmer, and
[00:36:08] and b think that there is domestic domestic political gain to be had
[00:36:11] had from being seen to publicly stand stand up to him. So it'll be quite
[00:36:15] quite interesting to see how he navigates navigates that sort of pressure from
[00:36:17] from within his own party. OK, Aubrey Aubrey Allegretti really interesting
[00:36:20] interesting to get your analysis. analysis. Thank you. The leader of
[00:36:24] of the Liberal Democrats, Sir Ed Ed Davey, has said there is no ceiling
[00:36:27] ceiling on the number of MPs he wants
[00:36:28] wants the party to win at the next
[00:36:31] next general election. Speaking at at the party's conference in Brighton, Brighton, he conceded The Lib Dems
[00:36:35] Dems have not been good enough on on social media and gave details
[00:36:38] details about his plan to address address that. The Lib Dems returned
[00:36:41] returned a record 72 MPs at the last
[00:36:44] last general election, but have since since struggled to capture the same
[00:36:47] same level of attention as other other parties. Our political correspondent
[00:36:51] correspondent Harry Farley is in in Brighton at the conference and and has been taking me through the
[00:36:54] the events of the day. The focus
[00:36:57] focus has been looking ahead to the the next election, talk in some of
[00:37:01] of the bars and fringes about what what seats the Liberal Democrats
[00:37:04] Democrats could win. Could they potentially potentially enter government again?
[00:37:07] again? And with me is the man to to talk just about that. This is
[00:37:10] is Sean Kemp, former head of media media for the party. And you worked
[00:37:13] worked in number ten when the Liberal Liberal Democrats were last in coalition.
[00:37:16] coalition. What do you think the the party with your former hat on.
[00:37:19] on. What do you think the party should should be looking to do in the build-up
[00:37:22] build-up to the next general election election to try and get back into into government? Well. I think one
[00:37:25] one of the main things is the thing thing you've probably heard a lot lot of MPs and members talking about
[00:37:29] about now is actually getting cut cut through and getting noticed. noticed. The party rightly talks
[00:37:33] talks a lot about how many MPs it's it's got, but I think a lot of MPs
[00:37:36] MPs are also looking at the poll poll rating and sort of getting a a bit worried about people like Greens
[00:37:39] Greens and Reform and so on. Is the the party going to get squeezed out?
[00:37:42] out? So one of the big things have have got to look at is actually how
[00:37:45] how do you sort of retain a kind kind of share of voice in the public public debate when you're at so much
[00:37:49] much risk of being pushed out by by newer, shinier parties? Why do do you think they're struggling to
[00:37:52] to do that? I think partly just. Because they're not new. I I mean, it's always been a struggle
[00:37:56] struggle for the Lib Dems to get get covered. I think when it's an an even noisier world and you're
[00:38:00] you're competing with more people people and you're not the fresh thing thing like reform is a new party.
[00:38:03] party. Like the surge of the Greens Greens is new Liberal Democrats feels feels like they've been around for
[00:38:07] for ages. I think there's just a a sense in which people kind of know
[00:38:10] know what they are. Also, they're they're not as populist, if you like.
[00:38:13] like. They're a centrist party. And And frankly, centrism isn't as interesting
[00:38:16] interesting and is a harder sell sell in a crowded marketplace. You're
[00:38:20] You're trying to get attention. If If you. Were wearing your old hat, hat, what would you be advising?
[00:38:24] advising? Sir Ed Davey, the party party to do to try and get that cut
[00:38:27] cut through to try and increase their their share of the voice? I think.
[00:38:30] think. A lot of it is about is not not about the stunts or trying to
[00:38:34] to do desperate headline grabbing grabbing things. Actually, I think think one of the challenges for the
[00:38:37] the party is, is spent so long in in kind of a survival mode, just just doing everything it can to get
[00:38:41] get through. It's actually about about an authentic policy platform
[00:38:44] platform and a voice about what you you actually stand for. If you look
[00:38:46] look at the politicians who are successful, successful, they go to two extremes.
[00:38:49] extremes. Like you look at Reform Reform and Farage or the Greens and
[00:38:53] and Polanski, you know that they they kind of believe what they're
[00:38:55] they're saying. And I think in the
[00:38:57] the modern era, the way the communications communications and politics, social social media and so on, you've got
[00:39:01] got to actually have a kind of clear clear standpoint that cuts through
[00:39:04] through very quickly. I think sometimes sometimes the Lib Dems can be guilty guilty of sort of overthinking all
[00:39:08] all their policy positions. It makes makes it a bit complex. It's just
[00:39:10] just hard to sell nowadays. So a a bit more authenticity, a. Bit more
[00:39:14] more authenticity. Yeah, I'm not not saying I think Eddie's or the
[00:39:17] the party's inauthentic, but I think think they could still be more direct.
[00:39:21] direct. And look, I'll be honest, honest, I think about things like like the you know, they talked about
[00:39:24] about the fuel duty cut today, for for example, from a party that believes believes in net zero. That's kind
[00:39:28] kind of a weird sell. And I think think increasingly you just can't can't get away with it. Even that
[00:39:32] that kind of level of nuance, you've you've got to be more honest. You're
[00:39:34] You're now a partner at Hanbury Strategy, Strategy, one of the consultancies, consultancies, the lobbyists who
[00:39:38] who are here. What are your clients
[00:39:41] clients saying to you in terms of of what they're interested in finding finding out about the Liberal Democrats?
[00:39:45] Democrats? Look, the thing that clients clients are interested in is, frankly, frankly, do you think there'll be
[00:39:49] be part of a Labour Lib Dem coalition coalition the next time? And do you.
[00:39:52] you. I think it's a very good chance chance that yeah. I mean, I think think one of the things that the
[00:39:56] the Liberal Democrats are entitled entitled to complain about is they they have 72 MPs and like we said, said, they struggle for coverage.
[00:40:00] coverage. But well, actually, if if you're looking at who could be be a powerful voice at the next election,
[00:40:04] election, liberal Democrats really really could. So actually, a lot lot of people are interested in the the Lib Dems, but they're trying
[00:40:07] trying to find out more about what what they stand for and what that that might mean. The truth of the
[00:40:12] the fact is the Liberal Democrats, Democrats, your coverage and how
[00:40:14] how much attention you get is very very closely tied to how likely people
[00:40:17] people think there is to be a hung hung parliament. And I'm afraid that
[00:40:20] that hasn't changed. Shawn Kemp, Kemp, former special adviser in number
[00:40:24] number ten, now partner at Hanbury Hanbury Strategy. Thank you for your your time. And that's one of the
[00:40:27] the things that we've heard from from the Liberal Democrats today
[00:40:30] today and over the last couple of of days is the need, the struggle
[00:40:34] struggle to set out what they stand
[00:40:36] stand for, what their offer is to to the voters as both Labour and
[00:40:40] and the Conservatives, Labour under under Andy Burnham and the Conservatives Conservatives under Kemi Badenoch,
[00:40:43] Badenoch, tried to peel some of their
[00:40:45] their supporters away. Harry Farley
[00:40:47] Farley in Brighton. They're Scotland's Scotland's efforts to tackle its
[00:40:51] its drugs deaths crisis are being being challenged by a growing influx
[00:40:54] influx of powerful synthetic drugs, drugs, experts warn. New synthetic
[00:40:58] synthetic opioids are becoming increasingly increasingly widespread, raising raising concerns that the number
[00:41:02] number of drug related deaths could could rise when the latest figures
[00:41:05] figures are published this week.
[00:41:06] week. Here's our Scotland editor,
[00:41:09] editor, James Cook. This spotless spotless laboratory in. Dundee seems
[00:41:12] seems a world away from the chaotic chaotic reality. Of illegal drug
[00:41:16] drug use. But scientists here are
[00:41:19] are racing against a deadly and evolving evolving threat. They're examining
[00:41:22] examining samples of seized drugs drugs to find out exactly what's
[00:41:25] what's in them. And the answers are
[00:41:28] are worrying with new substances substances emerging all the time.
[00:41:31] time. In terms of Europe, we are are seeing roughly about a drug entering
[00:41:34] entering into Europe context within within kind of every 1 to 2 weeks
[00:41:38] weeks something new will arrive. arrive. I mean, it's pretty rapid rapid for us to be able to keep up
[00:41:41] up as scientists. And that must be be dangerous. Yeah, these drugs are are extremely dangerous. The illicit
[00:41:45] illicit drug supply in Scotland is is getting more and more dangerous
[00:41:48] dangerous as time goes on. They're
[00:41:50] They're particularly worried about about synthetic opioids called nitazenes,
[00:41:54] nitazenes, often hundreds of times times more potent than heroin. Criminals
[00:41:58] Criminals are mixing them with all all sorts of other substances, from
[00:42:01] from Valium style pills to powdered
[00:42:05] powdered cocaine. Last year, Police
[00:42:08] Police Scotland seized £80 million million worth of street drugs. This
[00:42:12] This year, the figure has already
[00:42:15] already reached 78 million and we we can reveal detectives have raided
[00:42:19] raided suspected nitazenes labs in in Ayrshire and Midlothian, arresting
[00:42:23] arresting five people. This is not
[00:42:25] not just an urban problem. The rapidly
[00:42:28] rapidly changing nature of the drug drug supply is hitting rural Scotland
[00:42:32] Scotland too. We've come to the Kintyre Kintyre peninsula on the far west
[00:42:36] west of the mainland, to hear more more about what is a struggle to
[00:42:40] to save lives. There are all sorts
[00:42:43] sorts of ways to do that. This group group tries to treat trauma by helping
[00:42:47] helping former drug users reconnect reconnect with nature, but the staff
[00:42:50] staff say their job has been made made harder by the rapidly evolving
[00:42:54] evolving nature of drug supplies. supplies. Some of these substances
[00:42:57] substances are so potent that a grain grain would be enough to take somebody
[00:43:00] somebody over. And to kill
[00:43:05] them. So this is a frightening new new landscape, really. It really
[00:43:06] really is. I mean, I think I mean,
[00:43:09] mean, it's not something I normally normally find myself saying, but but I don't think drugs have ever
[00:43:12] ever been as risky, as dangerous dangerous as they are now. People People just never know quite what
[00:43:16] what they're getting any more. And And it's a terrible thing to say. say. But with heroin it was better.
[00:43:19] better. The devil you knew. Quite Quite a statement and a reminder
[00:43:23] reminder of the scale of this crisis. crisis. We just want to think about
[00:43:26] about all those that we've lost through
[00:43:29] through substance use. So many lives
[00:43:32] lives lost, so much still to do to
[00:43:34] to save others. James Cook, BBC News,
[00:43:38] News, Kintyre now. AI is making itself
[00:43:41] itself felt in many different parts parts of our lives, including looking
[00:43:44] looking for a job or hiring someone someone for one. Right now there's
[00:43:47] there's what's being called an application application explosion, which is creating
[00:43:51] creating challenges for job seekers seekers and employers. In the latest
[00:43:54] latest of his in-depth videos, our our analysis editor Ros Atkins explains
[00:43:58] explains explores the experience experience of looking for a job in
[00:44:01] in the AI era. Looking for a job
[00:44:03] job is hard. But is AI making it it harder? Feels like I'm talking
[00:44:07] talking to a robot. It feels really really disheartening. The survival
[00:44:10] survival of the fittest now really. really. AI stands accused of ruining
[00:44:14] ruining the job market. Do you buy
[00:44:16] buy that? No I don't. But has a doom
[00:44:19] doom loop been created where AI is
[00:44:20] is used to write more and more applications
[00:44:23] applications and where employers employers increasingly use AI to to sift through them? Two out three
[00:44:27] three of our clients are really struggling struggling with the volume. They
[00:44:30] They can simply go click, click click. If you do get through the
[00:44:33] the AI shortlisting, guess who might might be doing the interview? Once
[00:44:37] Once I had this AI tell me that I
[00:44:39] I lacked empathy. It's like you're
[00:44:41] you're speaking to a robot essentially, essentially, and I don't think that's.
[00:44:44] that's. Where you are. Well, you
[00:44:46] you are exactly. Recruitment is being
[00:44:49] being rewired by technology, but
[00:44:50] but is it better either for the applicant applicant or for the employer? To
[00:44:54] To help understand the issues, I
[00:44:56] I wanted to hear from people in the
[00:44:58] the middle of this. Kate runs an
[00:45:01] an AI consultancy. Matt is a recruitment recruitment executive and Niamh Adi
[00:45:05] Adi and Santina are job hunting and
[00:45:09] and sending a lot of applications. applications. Over to 100 now. About
[00:45:12] About 50. It's been 100 so far. That's That's just in the last year. This
[00:45:16] This is part of an application explosion
[00:45:19] explosion which is happening for for several reasons. Competition
[00:45:22] Competition is fierce. The number number of vacancies is down. The
[00:45:25] The number of graduates is at a record
[00:45:28] record high and AI is helping to
[00:45:30] to write more and more applications.
[00:45:33] applications. 20 years ago for graduate graduate vacancies, there were on
[00:45:36] on average 38 applications per job.
[00:45:39] job. Last year it was 140. Let's
[00:45:42] Let's look at this from both sides.
[00:45:43] sides. The employers. At first, the the job seekers. You're trying to
[00:45:47] to get a job. At the moment you're you're finishing university. How
[00:45:49] How central is AI to doing that? that? It's really central. I use
[00:45:53] use it now for finding the jobs itself. itself. When I'm searching for jobs,
[00:45:57] jobs, I have my automated agent that that goes scrapes through the whole
[00:46:00] whole internet seeing which roles roles apply, opening which ones the
[00:46:03] the deadlines are, and it helps me me narrow the selection down. It's
[00:46:05] It's maybe putting keywords to which which ones can make sound better.
[00:46:09] better. Even when I know I want to to portray a certain side of myself
[00:46:12] myself and what I want to say and and AI can help me sound better.
[00:46:15] better. Maybe edit my CV. I would
[00:46:17] would make sure that it has the same
[00:46:20] same words that there are in the
[00:46:22] the job description. Adi Niamh and
[00:46:24] and Santina aren't alone. One survey
[00:46:27] survey found 73% of students and
[00:46:29] and graduates use AI at some stage stage during the application process.
[00:46:32] process. I'll be honest, I'm surprised surprised it's not even higher. After
[00:46:35] After all, AI is very helpful and and there's one part of the process
[00:46:39] process where it's being used a lot.
[00:46:41] lot. Keywords job ads ask for certain
[00:46:44] certain experience and attributes. attributes. AI can make sure your
[00:46:47] your application includes those words. words. That's particularly helpful
[00:46:50] helpful when an AI sift is looking
[00:46:53] looking for them. But here's something something that might surprise you
[00:46:56] you using AI to shortlist people
[00:46:58] people isn't as widely used as you you might expect. One survey found
[00:47:02] found that 75% of candidates believe believe AI was being used to screen
[00:47:06] screen CVS. The number of recruiters
[00:47:07] recruiters who reported using it
[00:47:10] it was 21% on AI sifts. The UK's UK's Prime Minister, Andy Burnham,
[00:47:14] Burnham, has said. It doesn't feel feel to me that recruitment in the
[00:47:17] the post pandemic era is becoming becoming fairer. It just does feel
[00:47:21] feel harder these days to make that
[00:47:23] that breakthrough, to get that first first connection. Getting yourself
[00:47:26] yourself in front of someone is hard, hard, partly because of the volume
[00:47:30] volume of applications, partly because because technology is being used
[00:47:34] used for some of the shortlisting. shortlisting. But there are challenges
[00:47:37] challenges for employers to. Matt Matt Weston is a senior executive
[00:47:41] executive at recruitment firm Robert
[00:47:42] Robert Half. It places over 100,000
[00:47:45] 100,000 candidates a year globally.
[00:47:47] globally. It's hard to find the true
[00:47:50] true skills of the individual. I I think with AI you can put in a
[00:47:53] a job spec, it can generate a CV. CV. I'm trying. To imagine the scene
[00:47:56] scene in your office. Are you sometimes sometimes sitting there just going, going, goodness, more and more and
[00:48:00] and more applications coming in all all looking quite the same. They
[00:48:03] They are very Samy and that's really,
[00:48:07] really, really hard to. That's the the art of what we do. The art is
[00:48:10] is just justifying or really going going through and seeing who is the
[00:48:14] the right candidate. A recent Ft Ft article explained why recruiting
[00:48:18] recruiting is going retro in the the age of AI, when every application
[00:48:21] application is polished, Polish tells
[00:48:23] tells you nothing. One HR executive
[00:48:26] executive says, which is where referrals referrals and personal recommendations
[00:48:29] recommendations come in. And as Matt
[00:48:32] Matt emphasises, checking out whether
[00:48:34] whether the CV actually matches what
[00:48:36] what the candidate can do. It all
[00:48:38] all comes down to vetting that very
[00:48:41] very tightly. A CV is essentially essentially a two-dimensional piece
[00:48:44] piece of paper, right? It can have have everything on there where the
[00:48:48] the art and the skill of where we we come in is where we can verify
[00:48:52] verify true experience and relevant
[00:48:54] relevant skills. In other words, words, even if technology helps,
[00:48:57] helps, human judgement is still an an essential part of the process.
[00:49:01] process. At this point, it's important important to be clear on something
[00:49:04] something that the use of technology technology to shortlist candidates
[00:49:08] candidates isn't necessarily seen seen as a bad thing. The Information
[00:49:12] Information Commissioner says these these tools can enable employers
[00:49:14] employers to process high volumes volumes of applications consistently
[00:49:18] consistently and quickly. Or listen listen to Kate Young. Her business
[00:49:21] business works with companies which
[00:49:23] which use AI recruitment tools. What
[00:49:25] What we do know is that humans making making decisions about who to hire
[00:49:29] hire is a deeply flawed process, process, and it always has been. been. I'm sure we can all remember.
[00:49:33] remember. Think of a time we were were rejected for a job. We didn't
[00:49:36] didn't have a firm handshake. We We didn't make eye contact or some
[00:49:39] some other spurious question. The The interviewer asked us that actually
[00:49:42] actually nothing to do with our capabilities.
[00:49:44] capabilities. Kate offers a useful useful reminder that humans haven't
[00:49:47] haven't always got it right. Generally,
[00:49:50] Generally, if the right guardrails guardrails are present, evaluate evaluate what it's being told to
[00:49:54] to and assuming those things are are job relevant criteria, there
[00:49:57] there is the possibility of better better outcome because all of that that error and noise and bias can
[00:50:01] can potentially be screened out, out, but only if it's built well. well. And he said if the guardrails
[00:50:04] guardrails are there. But that's that's a big if because there are
[00:50:07] are huge concerns, aren't there, there, that AI will prioritise or
[00:50:11] or elevate certain types of people. people. Those concerns are very real
[00:50:15] real and is a big shift from the
[00:50:16] the guardrails. You're quite right
[00:50:19] right and the guardrails are many many and complicated, and they're
[00:50:23] they're everything from who built built the system. Did they have the the right expert expertise to do
[00:50:27] do it? Which particular technology technology they used, which particular
[00:50:30] particular AI technique they used. Do that well. Kate argues an
[00:50:34] an AI can be good for both applicant
[00:50:37] applicant and employer, though more more broadly it's not clear how easily
[00:50:41] easily employers can adapt their
[00:50:42] their AI tools to meet their specific
[00:50:45] specific requirements. And there's there's another concern you might
[00:50:48] might think that applying to ten ten different companies gives you
[00:50:52] you ten chances. Not necessarily. necessarily. If different employers
[00:50:55] employers are using the same or very
[00:50:58] very similar algorithms, the same same candidates could be favoured
[00:51:01] favoured again and again. Researchers Researchers have a term for this
[00:51:05] this risk algorithmic monoculture. monoculture. It's not actually a
[00:51:08] a new phenomenon. It has not a lot lot to do with AI to be honest with
[00:51:11] with you. So if you think back 30, 30, 40 years, we would typically
[00:51:15] typically see the same types of people people getting the best jobs anyway, anyway, you know, those people were
[00:51:19] were well off. They might be members members of certain majority groups,
[00:51:22] groups, they might have access to to certain social privilege, they they might have gone to the best
[00:51:25] best universities. And those people people would always have had their their pick of jobs. And then if you
[00:51:29] you think about assessment before before AI employers were still able
[00:51:32] able to configure systems to choose choose certain types of people. This
[00:51:36] This is contested territory, both both which biases humans may have
[00:51:40] have and which factors may offer offer reasonable grounds to favour
[00:51:43] favour or reject a candidate. And
[00:51:46] And though it's claimed AI can move move beyond human biases given it
[00:51:50] it learns from human data that is
[00:51:53] is far from guaranteed. Whatever Whatever the merits, if you do get
[00:51:56] get through an AI shortlist, next
[00:51:59] next may come an AI interview. Hi, Hi, I'll be your AI interviewer today.
[00:52:03] today. My goal is to learn more about about you and the experiences, skills
[00:52:06] skills and competencies you might might bring to this role. Sometimes
[00:52:09] Sometimes an AI avatar will ask you
[00:52:12] you questions and then respond to to your answers. Other times, you're
[00:52:16] you're given a set series of questions questions with each answer recorded
[00:52:19] recorded as a timer counts down.
[00:52:22] down. The World Economic Forum says
[00:52:24] says AI led interviews can expand expand opportunities for overlooked
[00:52:27] overlooked candidates, reduce recruiter
[00:52:29] recruiter bias, increase efficiency efficiency and make rejection more
[00:52:33] more constructive. But the experience
[00:52:35] experience of these interviews isn't isn't always so positive. It's really
[00:52:39] really uncanny. It's really inhumane. inhumane. And it's like I'm trying
[00:52:42] trying to speak my heart out, be
[00:52:44] be as passionate as I can. But the
[00:52:48] the persona only sees, oh, are you you able to do this? Are you saying
[00:52:52] saying these keywords. How does it it feel when you're talking to a
[00:52:56] a AI generated person to try and and get a job? It doesn't feel nice.
[00:52:59] nice. It doesn't feel nice. It feels
[00:53:01] feels like I'm putting all this effort
[00:53:04] effort in and I don't see like, like like with a normal human, you'd see,
[00:53:07] see, yeah. Like, you know, smiles.
[00:53:09] smiles. To the stage where I had
[00:53:11] had an interview where I was recorded,
[00:53:14] recorded, but I was essentially talking
[00:53:16] talking to an AI and the AI would
[00:53:19] would basically ask me questions questions based on what I was saying.
[00:53:22] saying. Once I had this AI tell me
[00:53:24] me that I lacked empathy so that
[00:53:27] that for me was a bit was a bit crazy.
[00:53:30] crazy. Does it matter to you that that there's no evidence of a human
[00:53:33] human being involved? Yeah, definitely.
[00:53:35] definitely. It feels like I'm never
[00:53:38] never going to be understood by the the other side. It feels like I'm
[00:53:41] I'm talking to a robot. I've got got to be honest, it feels reasonably reasonably bleak that you're not
[00:53:44] not just talking about wanting to to get a job. You're talking about about wanting to reach the point
[00:53:48] point where you can speak to someone. Which is even before getting getting the job, which is even more
[00:53:52] more like, oh, there's such a long long process I have to go through
[00:53:55] through to even get my potential potential seen. Question here is
[00:53:59] is how much of this is the fault fault of new technology? That is
[00:54:02] is a very real and valid feeling,
[00:54:03] feeling, and I have a lot of sympathy sympathy with that perspective. Of
[00:54:07] Of course we all want to meet a human. human. We all want to feel that connection. connection. We want to feel that
[00:54:11] that our time has been valued and and our efforts have been valued
[00:54:14] valued because applying for a job job is emotional and important. I
[00:54:17] I think it's easy to blame AI and and AI in hiring has its flaws, but
[00:54:21] but I don't think that's the reason reason people aren't necessarily
[00:54:23] necessarily reaching human being. being. Needless to say, recruitment
[00:54:26] recruitment before AI wasn't perfect. perfect. Far from it. But there are
[00:54:29] are some particular challenges with with what's happening now. So it's
[00:54:32] it's more like an arms race now between between the employers and the candidates
[00:54:36] candidates really, because the employers employers are using AI to sift through through applications and the candidates
[00:54:40] candidates are using AI to better better their applications for the
[00:54:43] the role. And essentially it will will just become AI reading AI. They
[00:54:47] They would suggest be yourself and
[00:54:51] and your applications like have a
[00:54:52] a true voice. But then at the same
[00:54:55] same time, when you actually do that, that, you just get instantly rejected.
[00:54:59] rejected. AI isn't responsible for for every challenge with job hunting,
[00:55:02] hunting, and it may prove very helpful,
[00:55:05] helpful, but clearly there are issues. issues. And as the genie is out of
[00:55:08] of the bottle, it's not a question question of if it's used. It's very
[00:55:12] very much about how. You get behind.
[00:55:14] behind. If you don't use AI today
[00:55:17] today in this market, it's a must.
[00:55:19] must. Unfortunately. Yeah, I guess. It's a shame, but I guess guess it's reality as well. Like
[00:55:23] Like a survival of the fittest now
[00:55:25] now really it's like you either use use AI with your applications, with
[00:55:29] with the keywords or you don't. And And at the end of the day, everyone everyone wants the job. Everyone
[00:55:33] Everyone wants to get to that opportunity opportunity where they can speak speak to the human. And if that means
[00:55:37] means having to use the tool to better better yourself, that's the cost
[00:55:41] cost at the current state. Well, Well, if you want to share with us
[00:55:44] us this video or watch it again, again, it's on the BBC News YouTube
[00:55:47] YouTube channel. You can find more more of his explainer videos there
[00:55:51] there too. That's it from me for for the moment. Do stay with us here
[00:55:54] here on BBC News. All the day's top top stories coming up at the top
[00:55:57] top of the hour. Thanks for watching.
[00:59:42] MUSIC
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[01:00:15] News. Exit polls in two state elections
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[01:00:21] CDU party. He describes the results
[01:00:23] results as a disaster for his party,
[01:00:25] party, with the AfD and Die Linke
[01:00:27] Linke making gains. Earl Spencer Spencer tells the BBC, writing his
[01:00:31] his book about his sister Princess Princess Diana was his duty as an
[01:00:35] an eyewitness to history and defends defends claims he made about the
[01:00:38] the King. I'm reporting every word
[01:00:41] word in this book. I report exactly exactly as I saw it and felt it at
[01:00:45] at the time. And I was surprised
[01:00:48] surprised at the giddiness of his his tone. That's what I'm recording
[01:00:51] recording there. At least two people people are killed in the Moscow region
[01:00:55] region in a massive Ukrainian drone drone attack. Russia says it's an
[01:00:58] an attempt to disrupt the country's