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[00:00:00] you are. Business on BBC News. Make
[00:00:02] Make the connection. MUSIC
[00:00:13] MUSIC On On BBC News. Sandra Maksimovic reports
[00:00:16] reports on Serbia's student led anti-corruption anti-corruption protests. Plus the
[00:00:20] the growing debate over AI safety.
[00:00:23] safety. Global Eye.
[00:00:45] Hello and welcome to Global Eye. A programme that brings you
[00:00:49] you hard hitting investigations and and tales of hope and resilience
[00:00:53] resilience from teams across the
[00:00:55] the BBC World Service. I'm Sandra
[00:00:57] Sandra Maksimovic and this week we
[00:00:59] we are in Serbia. The country is
[00:01:02] is split down the middle as student student protesters demand change
[00:01:05] change from a government they view view as corrupt and authoritarian.
[00:01:09] authoritarian. Which side will win win out in the upcoming elections?
[00:01:13] elections? Also coming up. The kind kind of dizzying rate of progress progress means that things that were
[00:01:16] were previously in the realms of of science fiction are now becoming
[00:01:19] becoming reality. Are the AI doomers doomers right about the risks of
[00:01:23] of digital Armageddon? We'll ask
[00:01:25] ask if there is still a path to a
[00:01:28] a safer AI future. And tracing Putin's
[00:01:32] Putin's rise from the streets of of Leningrad to the corridors of
[00:01:35] of the Kremlin. How did a little little known KGB officer become one
[00:01:39] one of the world's most powerful
[00:01:42] powerful leaders? These two messages
[00:01:51] messages are posted almost everywhere everywhere across Serbia. Students
[00:01:55] Students are winning and Serbia is is winning. Just one word is different,
[00:01:59] different, but it tells you a great great deal about this landlocked
[00:02:03] landlocked Balkan country. This is
[00:02:05] is a country used to divisions over
[00:02:08] over wars, nationalism, Russia, the
[00:02:11] the West. But nowadays it's not only
[00:02:14] only politics. Rousing heated debates
[00:02:17] debates between Serbians. It's the
[00:02:18] the reality they live in. The latest
[00:02:23] latest rupture began here at 1152
[00:02:27] 1152 on November 1st, 2024. A concrete
[00:02:30] concrete canopy collapsed at Novi
[00:02:32] Novi Sad railway station. 16 people
[00:02:36] people died. Shortly before the station
[00:02:45] station was renovated as part of
[00:02:46] of a Chinese led railway project
[00:02:49] project repeatedly celebrated by
[00:02:51] by President Aleksandar Vucic. Every
[00:02:58] Every day, people still block streets.
[00:03:01] streets. At 1152. 16 minutes. One
[00:03:04] One for every person who died. What
[00:03:11] What began with demands for accountability
[00:03:14] accountability for the canopy collapse
[00:03:16] collapse grew into a nationwide student
[00:03:18] student led movement. For the protesters, protesters, the collapse has become
[00:03:22] become a symbol of what they say
[00:03:23] say is a much bigger problem. Corruption,
[00:03:28] Corruption, secrecy and institutions institutions that fail to hold those
[00:03:29] those in power to account. The institutions
[00:03:33] institutions cannot perform their their duties and what is requested
[00:03:36] requested of them, what is their
[00:03:38] their duty? Because they're simply
[00:03:41] simply shackled by the regime, they they can't make a single decision decision unless the regime or the
[00:03:45] the government actually approves approves it. And therefore it is is simply impossible for them to
[00:03:49] to actually follow the law. The government
[00:03:52] government denies allegations of
[00:03:55] of corruption for months. Crowds
[00:03:57] Crowds filled streets and squares
[00:03:59] squares across Serbia. But this is
[00:04:02] is just one reality of Serbia. Here
[00:04:06] Here is another. The Serbian government
[00:04:08] government points to economic growth, growth, investment and building boom.
[00:04:12] boom. Belgrade will host the first
[00:04:14] first specialised expo ever held held in the Western Balkans. And
[00:04:17] And this massive construction site site is where the event will take
[00:04:21] take place. It is the image Serbia's
[00:04:23] Serbia's government wants to project
[00:04:25] project to the world. Ambitious,
[00:04:27] Ambitious, modern and open. The expo
[00:04:29] expo is meant to symbolise Vucic's
[00:04:31] Vucic's vision of Serbia as a nation
[00:04:33] nation with ties to all countries.
[00:04:37] countries. But there is a stark contrast. contrast. Next year Serbia wants
[00:04:41] wants the world to take part in its
[00:04:43] its expo celebrating culture and
[00:04:45] and music. But this year, one of
[00:04:48] of its best known cultural exports exports was missing from its traditional
[00:04:52] traditional home. Exit Festival was
[00:04:54] was born here out of a student movement
[00:04:56] movement opposed to then regime of
[00:04:58] of late strongman Slobodan Milosevic. Milosevic. So it was no surprise
[00:05:02] surprise that a quarter of a century century later, the festival gave
[00:05:04] gave its support to the new student student protest movement Serbia.
[00:05:08] Serbia. The whole world is watching. watching. Make some noise for the
[00:05:12] the students of Serbia. Ben Thompson.
[00:05:18] Thompson. But the silent punishment punishment soon came. Despite the
[00:05:21] the exit brought Serbia free titles titles for the best major European
[00:05:25] European festival and over 300 million
[00:05:27] million of euros in tourism economy.
[00:05:30] economy. After we supported the student
[00:05:33] student protests, we were practically practically forced to leave Serbia
[00:05:37] Serbia and we received various threats. threats. I even personally received
[00:05:40] received a threat from one of the
[00:05:42] the local heads of the Special Police Police forces that if we continue
[00:05:46] continue to support students that that they will turn the whole agency
[00:05:49] agency against me personally. So
[00:05:52] So our suppliers were being threatened, threatened, our sponsors were being
[00:05:55] being threatened, so there was no no option then to for a time being
[00:05:59] being leave Serbia. The festival's
[00:06:01] festival's departure was just one one of many changes Serbia has seen
[00:06:05] seen in its cultural landscape in
[00:06:08] in the past 18 months. We have instances
[00:06:11] instances of people being threatened, threatened, like their safety being
[00:06:15] being threatened, their families families being threatened, but also
[00:06:19] also people being prevented from
[00:06:21] from working their concerts, their
[00:06:26] their shows, their theatre plays
[00:06:28] plays being cancelled. International
[00:06:32] International watchdogs have accused accused the government of putting
[00:06:35] putting undue pressure on independent independent media organisations and
[00:06:38] and harassing opposition groups.
[00:06:40] groups. But he rejects the claims.
[00:06:43] claims. This is peace, stability
[00:06:49] stability and the best living standard standard so far that we delivered
[00:06:52] delivered to Serbian people. And
[00:06:55] And these are the facts. Serbia's
[00:06:57] Serbia's divide will soon face its
[00:06:59] its biggest test. Vujic stepped down
[00:07:01] down as president at the end of September September to seek the
[00:07:09] Seek the post of Prime Minister. Following the snap parliamentary parliamentary elections scheduled scheduled for October 25th. Which
[00:07:12] Which brings us back to these rival rival graffiti artists. Who is winning
[00:07:16] winning the students or Serbia? For For the people who painted these
[00:07:19] these messages, it looks like that
[00:07:21] that cannot be the same thing. This
[00:07:25] This information and foreign influence influence are familiar worries here
[00:07:29] here in Serbia, but artificial intelligence
[00:07:31] intelligence is changing the rules
[00:07:33] rules of the game. AI can create
[00:07:36] create increasingly realistic content content at a scale that was unimaginable
[00:07:40] unimaginable just a few years ago. ago. The immediate concern is what
[00:07:44] what that means for elections and
[00:07:46] and public trust here and around
[00:07:48] around the world. But some researchers
[00:07:50] researchers are looking much further
[00:07:53] further ahead and asking exactly exactly where this technology could
[00:07:56] could lead. Recent AI safety concerns
[00:07:59] concerns have been driven by stark
[00:08:02] stark warnings about the growing growing risks of the technology going
[00:08:05] going rogue. Could AI really wipe
[00:08:08] wipe out humans and how might it
[00:08:10] it do it? Cyber correspondent Joe
[00:08:13] Joe Tidy has been looking at some
[00:08:15] some of the scenarios. We've never
[00:08:18] never created beings that may soon soon be smarter than us. We don't
[00:08:21] don't know what's going to happen. It's a warning sign that
[00:08:24] that we need to slow down. That's That's what we're trying to do here here is we're trying to get ahead
[00:08:27] ahead of things that otherwise might might happen. I can't see any way
[00:08:31] way to really stop this incredible
[00:08:33] incredible momentum of AI and robots. It's not at all an exaggeration
[00:08:36] exaggeration to say that the people people who are involved believe there
[00:08:39] there is a possibility of human extinction. extinction. The warnings have ramped
[00:08:42] ramped up, but how could a superintelligent superintelligent AI that wanted to
[00:08:46] to take control of our world actually actually kill us all? Let's take
[00:08:49] take a look at some of the worst worst case scenarios that so-called
[00:08:53] so-called AI doomers are talking talking about, and assess how likely
[00:08:56] likely they are. One thing that the
[00:08:58] the recent AI outbreaks has shown shown us is that these AIS are now
[00:09:02] now very good at hacking. The kind kind of dizzying rate of progress progress means that things that were
[00:09:06] were previously in the realms of of science fiction are now becoming
[00:09:08] becoming reality. To give a concrete concrete example, AI is can hack.
[00:09:12] hack. They can hack into the sort sort of critical infrastructure that
[00:09:16] that the world runs on. The scary
[00:09:18] scary scenario here is that a rogue rogue AI might infiltrate the computer
[00:09:22] computer networks of internet providers, providers, energy grids, and even
[00:09:25] even nuclear power stations. The
[00:09:27] The AIS could shut it all down so so there's no electricity for humans,
[00:09:31] humans, no heating or cooling, no
[00:09:33] no internet connectivity. It could
[00:09:35] could cause untold chaos in some
[00:09:38] some imagined scenarios, nuclear nuclear catastrophes are possible.
[00:09:41] possible. Another doomsday scenario scenario is explored in great detail
[00:09:45] detail by AI researchers in a paper
[00:09:47] paper called AI 2027. What we sort sort of said happened in that scenario
[00:09:51] scenario was in 2027. So next year.
[00:09:54] year. AI is recursively self-improve self-improve and that snowballs to
[00:09:56] to an AI that has access to a large
[00:10:00] large number of robots, which are are doing most of the physical tasks
[00:10:04] tasks throughout the economy. Well, Well, I'll be you found that report report faster than my whole staff
[00:10:07] staff combined. Happy to help sir.
[00:10:09] sir. In the US as well as other governments governments worldwide are constantly
[00:10:12] constantly asking the CIA for advice. advice. However, unfortunately it's
[00:10:15] it's also not friendly and is out out for its own ends. And then eventually
[00:10:18] eventually what happens is it releases
[00:10:20] releases a bioweapon killing most most humans and it continues to run
[00:10:24] run the robot economy itself. And
[00:10:26] And so that resulted in human extinction. extinction. And another scary scenario
[00:10:30] scenario the end of humanity is a
[00:10:32] a mistake. The so-called paperclip paperclip maximiser hypothesis was
[00:10:35] was first imagined more than 20 years
[00:10:37] years ago. So in this thought experiment, experiment, it's a hypothetical AI
[00:10:41] AI that cares about making as many many paperclips as possible. It doesn't
[00:10:45] doesn't hate us or resent us humans, humans, but that's its sole goal.
[00:10:48] goal. And then from the pursuit of
[00:10:50] of that goal, it would have instrumental instrumental subgoals that might
[00:10:53] might include gaining more power, power, gaining more intelligence,
[00:10:57] intelligence, and then the thought thought is that a sufficiently powerful
[00:11:01] powerful entity would have instrumental instrumental subgoals that might
[00:11:04] might entail the destruction of humanity, humanity, because it could be making
[00:11:07] making more paperclips if there were were no humans around to stop it.
[00:11:11] it. And if nothing else, our bodies
[00:11:12] bodies are made of contain iron atoms atoms that could be transformed into
[00:11:16] into really nice paperclips. It's It's meant to illustrate this idea
[00:11:18] idea that you don't need some very
[00:11:21] very specific hostile goal in a sufficiently
[00:11:24] sufficiently powerful superintelligence superintelligence for it to pose pose a danger to humanity. Almost
[00:11:27] Almost any goal, unless it really really embeds in that goal a care
[00:11:31] care for humans. There is another another school of thought about AI
[00:11:34] AI safety, though guessing how and and why a superintelligent AI might
[00:11:38] might try and kill humans is futile.
[00:11:41] futile. If you imagine asking chimpanzees chimpanzees how exactly are these
[00:11:44] these humans going to make you extinct, extinct, they would have a very difficult
[00:11:47] difficult time answering because because what we do, they don't understand
[00:11:51] understand the discussion here has has to rest on the assumption that
[00:11:55] that once you create something that's that's much more intelligent than
[00:11:57] than humans, we simply no longer
[00:11:59] longer have a say in what
[00:12:03] happens. It all sounds very sci-fi, sci-fi, but there is an increasingly increasingly significant and loud
[00:12:06] loud group of AI scientists that
[00:12:08] that think something like this might might happen. It's so common that
[00:12:11] that in the AI world, people talk talk about their p doom. A common
[00:12:14] common percentage seems to be anywhere
[00:12:18] anywhere between 10 and 25%. Many Many people's probability of doom
[00:12:21] doom for humans seems to have risen
[00:12:23] risen after a recent spate of uncontrolled
[00:12:26] uncontrolled outbreaks and hacks
[00:12:27] hacks of AI agents from OpenAI Anthropic
[00:12:30] Anthropic and Meta. But some in the the cyber world are less worried
[00:12:34] worried and think the companies are
[00:12:36] are also to blame. And anything these
[00:12:39] these machines, these tireless, relentless, relentless, goal seeking, very capable
[00:12:43] capable machines, anything these
[00:12:45] these machines do is as a result result of how they've been built.
[00:12:48] built. And the bottom line is that
[00:12:51] that if you are a manufacturer of of technology, you should be designing
[00:12:55] designing and developing and testing
[00:12:57] testing and delivering your capability
[00:13:00] capability with security as the number number one priority. Other people
[00:13:03] people think that an out-of-control out-of-control AI poses a significant
[00:13:07] significant risk to humans, but not
[00:13:09] not extinction level. If AI actually
[00:13:12] actually did, you know, inflict heavy heavy losses on humanity if it even
[00:13:15] even wanted to, which is a big question.
[00:13:18] question. But if it did, humans would would fight back. We would take out out all the data centres, we'd be
[00:13:22] be blowing up power stations. So So like extinction, like so there's
[00:13:25] there's no humans left, no way for for us to rebuild. Like I just don't
[00:13:29] don't see it. We in the US are spending
[00:13:31] spending too much time focusing on on the extinction scenarios, which
[00:13:35] which make for great narrative, but but aren't the likely ones. You know,
[00:13:38] know, the likely ones are things things like power grids get hit in
[00:13:42] in the next several months. You know, know, because these tools can be
[00:13:45] be used for cyber hacking and will will be. So what's being done now
[00:13:48] now to reduce the risk of these bad
[00:13:50] bad AI outcomes? The researchers
[00:13:53] researchers behind AI 2027 published published a more optimistic view
[00:13:55] view of what they think could happen happen if things change. The plan
[00:13:58] plan calls for a slowdown in development development until safety measures
[00:14:02] measures and monitoring can improve. improve. It also calls for international
[00:14:05] international co-operation between between countries and companies to to build things like kill switches
[00:14:09] switches in data centres. Some of of these things are now being openly
[00:14:13] openly talked about alongside other other ideas. I'm very happy that
[00:14:16] that AI safety is sort of getting getting the attention that I think think it really needs. I'm hopeful
[00:14:20] hopeful that this sort of large societal
[00:14:23] societal outcry will result in sort sort of a useful policy response
[00:14:27] response that will actually reduce reduce the risk. In some ways, you
[00:14:30] you could say that these incidents incidents that have happened over
[00:14:32] over the past couple of months are
[00:14:35] are actually a blessing in disguise
[00:14:37] disguise as it's raised the consciousness
[00:14:39] consciousness around how we need
[00:14:41] need to ensure that these capabilities
[00:14:43] capabilities can't be used to perpetrate perpetrate massive cyber attacks
[00:14:47] attacks against our critical infrastructure, infrastructure, can't be used to
[00:14:50] to effectively create bioweapons bioweapons or chemical weapons or
[00:14:54] or radiological weapons. Now we should
[00:14:56] should all feel like we have the the responsibility to do something
[00:15:00] something about it. But getting an an international agreement in place
[00:15:03] place seems like a tall order right right now. With so much money and
[00:15:06] and geopolitical tension tied up up in AI. We don't want to restrict
[00:15:09] restrict them where all of a sudden sudden we come in second to China. For now, the so-called AI
[00:15:13] AI Doomers are hoping that the recent recent upswell of concern will be
[00:15:16] be enough to bring about change inside
[00:15:20] inside the industry. Historically,
[00:15:24] Historically, Serbia has been one
[00:15:25] one of Russia's closest allies in
[00:15:28] in Europe with their shared Slavic Slavic and Orthodox Christian heritage.
[00:15:32] heritage. The two countries have
[00:15:33] have maintained a strong relationship relationship for centuries and as
[00:15:37] as we have seen before, stepping stepping down President Vucic had
[00:15:41] had been keen to foster a warm personal
[00:15:44] personal friendship with his Russian Russian counterpart Vladimir Putin.
[00:15:47] Putin. According to one recent poll, poll, Serbia was the only country
[00:15:50] country in Europe where Putin had
[00:15:52] had a net positive favorability rating.
[00:15:55] rating. Putin's image has been tarnished
[00:15:57] tarnished by Russia's slide into into authoritarianism an invasion
[00:16:01] invasion of Ukraine. He is now one
[00:16:03] one of the most recognised people people in the world. But before he
[00:16:07] he took charge of Russia over 25
[00:16:09] 25 years ago, he was a virtual unknown. unknown. Much of what we know about
[00:16:13] about his life before the Kremlin
[00:16:15] Kremlin comes from stories he repeatedly
[00:16:18] repeatedly tells about himself, from from a childhood spent chasing rats
[00:16:21] rats to the twist of fate that drew
[00:16:24] drew him into politics. The World World Service's global journalism
[00:16:27] journalism team have explored his his early years and what they can
[00:16:30] can teach us about the man behind
[00:16:33] behind the leader. This is Russian
[00:16:42] Russian President Vladimir Putin, Putin, long before the world knew
[00:16:44] knew his name. An unknown Mid-ranking
[00:16:48] Mid-ranking KGB officer who went went on to become one of the most
[00:16:51] most recognisable leaders on the
[00:16:53] the planet since he was first elected, elected, Putin has carefully crafted
[00:16:56] crafted the image of a macho, hyper
[00:16:59] hyper masculine strongman. But beyond
[00:17:02] beyond the photo ops lies another another curated self-portrait, one
[00:17:05] one made of anecdotes he often repeats
[00:17:07] repeats in interviews. Those messages messages are extremely important
[00:17:11] important not necessarily at face face value, but its symbolic value.
[00:17:14] value. What is it that he is trying trying to say? Here are three stories
[00:17:18] stories Putin returns to again and
[00:17:20] and again from his life before the
[00:17:22] the Kremlin. Vladimir Putin was born
[00:17:26] born in 1952 in Leningrad, now St
[00:17:28] St Petersburg, a city traumatised
[00:17:31] traumatised by the 872 day Nazi siege
[00:17:33] siege of World War II. Hundreds of
[00:17:38] of thousands died, including Putin's Putin's older brother. He says his
[00:17:42] his parents barely survived it. The
[00:17:44] The siege is the background condition condition for his childhood. It was
[00:17:48] was a city marked by scarcity, by
[00:17:51] by a profound sense of trauma and
[00:17:53] and loss and a deep fear of vulnerability.
[00:17:56] vulnerability. This is where he grew grew up a cramped communal apartment
[00:18:00] apartment with no hot water and a a shared toilet. It was a pretty
[00:18:04] pretty rough, hardscrabble existence existence and frankly, the young
[00:18:07] young Putin himself seemed to have have been a pretty rough, hardscrabble
[00:18:10] hardscrabble young, young kid. You You know, he was a bit of a scrapper.
[00:18:14] scrapper. Most of his childhood played played out in the divorce. The shared
[00:18:18] shared courtyard between apartment apartment blocks. The lesson of the the war culture taught him don't
[00:18:21] don't ever back down. Even though though you're smaller than a lot
[00:18:24] lot of the other boys. He started started wrestling and judo later
[00:18:28] later becoming a black belt. But But there's a particular anecdote
[00:18:31] anecdote he likes to recount about about his childhood and how he liked
[00:18:34] liked to chase rats. That was all
[00:18:37] all fun and games until at one point
[00:18:39] point he chased a particularly big
[00:18:42] big rat into a room from which there there was no exit, and realising
[00:18:45] realising that the rat turned and and was ready to spring and actually
[00:18:48] actually Putin himself ran. In first
[00:18:52] first person a book of interviews interviews published the year he
[00:18:54] he became president. He says he got
[00:18:56] got a quick and lasting lesson from from this experience. If you corner
[00:19:00] corner a rat and you leave it no
[00:19:02] no way out, they will fight with
[00:19:04] with unexpected ferocity, he says
[00:19:06] says he drew a conclusion from this this never be cornered and never
[00:19:10] never cornered anyone. Putin says
[00:19:12] says he dreamt of joining the KGB.
[00:19:15] KGB. The Soviet intelligence service.
[00:19:22] service. MUSIC
[00:19:29] MUSIC As As a teenager, he says he even turned
[00:19:31] turned up at their Leningrad headquarters headquarters asking for a job. But
[00:19:34] But they told him to go to university university and study law. And that's
[00:19:38] that's where they later recruited recruited him. He joins the KGB.
[00:19:41] KGB. Not really because of the ideological ideological dimension, but because
[00:19:44] because it seems to be the biggest
[00:19:45] biggest gang in town. He says his
[00:19:48] his job within the KGB was to gather gather information about political
[00:19:51] political opponents, finding out
[00:19:53] out who was doing what and how because
[00:19:56] because he spoke German fluently. fluently. He was posted to Dresden,
[00:20:00] Dresden, East Germany, in 1985. At At the time, the Soviet Union still
[00:20:04] still held enormous influence across
[00:20:06] across Eastern Europe. Putin was
[00:20:10] was still in Dresden as mass protests
[00:20:12] protests swept across East Germany Germany in late 1989, leading to
[00:20:15] to the fall of the Berlin Wall in
[00:20:18] in November. The following month,
[00:20:21] month, a crowd stormed the Dresden Dresden headquarters of the Stasi,
[00:20:24] Stasi, the feared East German secret
[00:20:27] secret police racing to stop the the destruction of files and evidence
[00:20:30] evidence as the regime was
[00:20:34] falling. The Stasi was basically basically finished that night. In
[00:20:36] In the book First Person, he recalls recalls how the crowd then turned
[00:20:39] turned against the KGB compound across
[00:20:41] across the road where Putin was watching.
[00:20:44] watching. So there he is in the KGB KGB compound when there's a crowd
[00:20:48] crowd of East Germans who clearly clearly identify the Soviets, the
[00:20:51] the KGB in particular as their oppressors.
[00:20:53] oppressors. Putin himself goes out out and confronts the crowd and says,
[00:20:57] says, look, there's a whole collection collection of soldiers inside with
[00:21:00] with weapons. If you come in, they
[00:21:03] they will have to fire. And he talks
[00:21:05] talks them down. That persuaded the
[00:21:07] the group to withdraw. But fearing fearing further unrest, Putin asked
[00:21:10] asked Moscow for back-up. The KGB
[00:21:13] KGB put in a panicked call to the the nearest Soviet garrison, saying
[00:21:16] saying we have a crowd here. We're We're going to have to send some
[00:21:18] some troops. And they say, look, look, we can't do anything unless
[00:21:21] unless we have orders. We need to
[00:21:23] to have orders from Moscow. And Moscow
[00:21:26] Moscow is silent. Though the Soviet
[00:21:28] Soviet Union didn't collapse until until 1991, Putin says he felt it
[00:21:32] it ended that day and it made a lasting
[00:21:36] lasting impression. Geopolitical
[00:21:45] Geopolitical catastrophe for the
[00:21:46] the 30 million. Territory. I think
[00:21:52] think that experience in Dresden Dresden shaped his obsession with
[00:21:56] with state strength, civil control
[00:21:59] control and preventing disorder. disorder. After Dresden, Putin stayed
[00:22:03] stayed on the KGB's books, but he he didn't have an official posting,
[00:22:06] posting, so he returned to Leningrad, Leningrad, started a PhD in mining
[00:22:10] mining economics and says in his his ghost written autobiography he
[00:22:12] he even considered a career in academia.
[00:22:16] academia. But his former law professor professor Anatoly Sobchak, who would
[00:22:19] would soon become the mayor of Leningrad, Leningrad, offered him a job that
[00:22:22] that would change his life. That's
[00:22:25] That's how he quietly entered the
[00:22:27] the world of politics. Often unnoticed,
[00:22:30] unnoticed, he sat right by Sobchak
[00:22:32] Sobchak for years. You can see him
[00:22:35] him here or even here. At the time,
[00:22:38] time, no one was paying much attention attention to the man in the brown
[00:22:41] brown coat. It was actually through
[00:22:44] through the chaotic 1990s that in in many ways he really found his
[00:22:48] his genuine talents and his talents
[00:22:51] talents in, in the 1990s were essentially
[00:22:54] essentially to be everyone's favourite favourite bagman. Everyone's favourite
[00:22:58] favourite deputy, the guy who can can get things done unobtrusively.
[00:23:02] unobtrusively. He says his time there there was some of the most formative
[00:23:05] formative years of his career. It's It's a small anecdote that Putin
[00:23:09] Putin tells, and he repeatedly highlights highlights above all others, and
[00:23:13] and that is that Sobchak had such such personal trust in him that he
[00:23:16] he gave him a stack of blank signed
[00:23:21] signed papers, as he calls them blank
[00:23:24] blank signed letters. So he was authorised
[00:23:27] authorised to act in the mayor's mayor's name. That experience shaped
[00:23:31] shaped Putin's view of power as something
[00:23:34] something personal, loyal and indivisible. indivisible. And that lesson stayed
[00:23:38] stayed with him long after the Sobchak
[00:23:40] Sobchak years. To this day, he is is still surrounded by many of the
[00:23:43] the people he met during his time time in the mayor's office. After
[00:23:47] After Sobchak lost an election, Putin Putin moved to Moscow to join the
[00:23:50] the Kremlin. In the dying years of of President Boris Yeltsin's administration,
[00:23:53] administration, he rose up the ranks ranks fast. In 1998, he became the
[00:23:57] the head of the new Intelligence Intelligence and security Service,
[00:24:00] Service, the FSB. A year later, Prime Prime Minister. The so-called family,
[00:24:03] family, the people around Yeltsin Yeltsin were beginning to look for
[00:24:07] for a successor, someone who they
[00:24:10] they thought could be controllable controllable and could be efficient.
[00:24:13] efficient. Yeltsin's inner circle circle ensured Putin took charge
[00:24:16] charge when Yeltsin stepped down, down, but to most Russians he was
[00:24:20] was still a mystery man. Putin really
[00:24:22] really hadn't struck the public imagination imagination that much. And therefore,
[00:24:26] therefore, when he became first Prime Prime Minister but then certainly certainly president, there was a
[00:24:29] a sense of who is this man? Which Which of course was very useful Putin,
[00:24:32] Putin, because it more or less meant
[00:24:34] meant that he had a blank
[00:24:38] slate. It's on that blank slate that that Putin built the image of the the leader we know today, a man who
[00:24:42] who went from the streets of Leningrad
[00:24:44] Leningrad to Russia's top job in
[00:24:46] in control of the country for more
[00:24:48] more than 25 years, he has become become increasingly authoritarian.
[00:24:52] authoritarian. I think the pro-Kremlin pro-Kremlin years tell us a great
[00:24:55] great deal about Putin's operating
[00:24:58] operating instincts, but those years
[00:25:00] years are not deterministic biography
[00:25:03] biography alone, I don't think, explains explains Putin's choices across his
[00:25:06] his career. His time in power has
[00:25:08] has also been shaped by wars, economic
[00:25:11] economic crises and repeated clashes clashes with the West. But from the
[00:25:15] the stories he tells, we can get
[00:25:16] get a glimpse into his mindset. Putin's
[00:25:19] Putin's childhood in post-war Leningrad, Leningrad, his KGB training, the
[00:25:23] the events in Dresden, the chaos
[00:25:25] chaos of the 1990s. Clearly, I think,
[00:25:27] think, instilled deep instincts in in Putin about vulnerability, loyalty
[00:25:31] loyalty and the dangers of state
[00:25:33] state collapse. Thank you for joining
[00:25:41] joining me in Serbia. We'll be back
[00:25:42] back next week. Goodbye.
[00:28:08] fair elections in the world's largest largest democracy. Join me Azadeh Azadeh Moshiri for our continuing
[00:28:12] continuing coverage on BBC News.
[00:28:20] MUSIC To
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