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[00:00:00] Business on BBC News. Make the connection.
[00:00:07] connection. MUSIC
[00:00:09] MUSIC
[00:00:18] These are the latest headlines
[00:00:20] from BBC News. Another strike hits
[00:00:23] hits Riyadh's main airport in Saudi Saudi Arabia, hours after Yemen's
[00:00:26] Yemen's Houthis warned airlines to to avoid the country's airspace.
[00:00:29] airspace. 13 people were killed and
[00:00:31] and hundreds wounded in another Houthi
[00:00:33] Houthi attack on Saturday. President President Zelensky has denied knowledge
[00:00:37] knowledge of an energy cease fire fire with Russia announced by Donald
[00:00:40] Donald Trump. But he says Ukraine
[00:00:42] Ukraine supports the idea. If Russia
[00:00:45] Russia does to Nepal's authorities authorities call for the evacuation evacuation of villages after severe
[00:00:49] severe flooding in the centre of of the country. Five people reported
[00:00:53] reported missing. Pope Leo says he
[00:00:56] he is to undergo surgery after his his doctors detected what he called
[00:00:59] called a very early stage nodule
[00:01:02] nodule in his lung. Manchester City
[00:01:04] City win 3-0 despite the boos from from Liverpool fans in their first
[00:01:07] first match since being found guilty
[00:01:10] guilty of financial rule breaches.
[00:01:16] breaches. MUSIC
[00:01:27] Now on BBC News, our in-depth weekly conversation focusing on a
[00:01:30] a particular topical issue in Africa
[00:01:33] Africa shaped by opinions that move
[00:01:34] move and challenge as well as African African experiences that connect
[00:01:38] connect us all. Focus on Africa.
[00:01:40] Africa. The conversation. Is. Nigeria
[00:01:44] Nigeria ready for female leaders?
[00:01:47] leaders? The majority of Nigerians Nigerians have not gotten to that
[00:01:51] that place where we vote on the basis
[00:01:53] basis of character, competence, capacity,
[00:01:56] capacity, credibility. If these women
[00:01:59] women are credible enough. Why can't
[00:02:01] can't they be the frontrunners? Even
[00:02:04] Even more daring now is that we don't
[00:02:06] don't even have female deputies any
[00:02:09] any more. Now we see a lot of man man a man man man man man man man
[00:02:13] man a man, you know, doing their their thing as governor and deputy
[00:02:16] deputy governor. The percentage of of women in this country I think
[00:02:19] think is almost a 5,050% situation,
[00:02:21] situation, right? So how do we have
[00:02:24] have half of the population not represented
[00:02:27] represented in policy conversations?
[00:02:37] conversations? In January 2027, Nigeria Nigeria will be heading to the polls.
[00:02:39] polls. But there's one thing still still largely missing from the ballot
[00:02:43] ballot women. Nigeria has one of
[00:02:45] of the lowest rates of women's political
[00:02:48] political representation in the world. world. In fact, women make up less
[00:02:52] less than 5% of the Members of Parliament.
[00:02:55] Parliament. So what's stopping women women from taking their place in
[00:02:58] in Nigeria's political leadership? leadership? And what can be done
[00:03:01] done to change that? I am Obinna.
[00:03:05] Obinna. Joining me in studio here
[00:03:06] here in Lagos is Ufuoma Namdi Udeh
[00:03:11] Udeh Executive director of Enough Enough is Enough, a civil society
[00:03:14] society organisation working to promote promote good governance, civic education
[00:03:18] education and public accountability.
[00:03:21] accountability. It's great to have have you with us. Thank you. It feels
[00:03:24] feels good, you know, to have this this conversation about women in
[00:03:28] in politics, especially now that that we are entering the election
[00:03:32] election season. We've seen campaigns campaigns have been declared and
[00:03:35] and we keep seeing women and we've we've seen women political leaders.
[00:03:38] leaders. You know, some of them say
[00:03:41] say they are party leaders, party party women leaders, organising women
[00:03:44] women canvassing for votes, but they they never make it to the ballot.
[00:03:48] ballot. Tell me what is preventing preventing them? If I would be honest
[00:03:51] honest with you, I think one of the
[00:03:53] the foundational barriers is societal
[00:03:55] societal barrier. Our idea of a leader
[00:04:00] leader is a man. And so to even break
[00:04:04] break that mental block in somebody's
[00:04:06] somebody's head to say that, oh,
[00:04:08] oh, I want to I want to become an
[00:04:12] an elected governor. People look look at you like. You know, because
[00:04:15] because of my line of work, I've I've had people ask me, oh, do you you want to oh, she's not going to
[00:04:19] to run for office. This one appointed appointed appointed appointments
[00:04:22] appointments office. And in my head
[00:04:25] head I'm like. Like, won't you even
[00:04:28] even ask me Jonathan? So there is is that. I have an opinion. I have
[00:04:31] have an opinion on it. Right. I can can decide whether or not I want
[00:04:34] want to run for office. But there's there's already that idea that, oh,
[00:04:37] oh, a woman will most likely what what makes sense for her is an appointed
[00:04:41] appointed office or what makes sense
[00:04:42] sense for her is to be in the background
[00:04:46] background doing all the political
[00:04:48] political work, the greets of canvassing, canvassing, organising and making
[00:04:51] making political rallies look great. great. But she shouldn't be on the
[00:04:55] the ballot. So there's that societal societal or cultural cultural barrier
[00:04:58] barrier rather that we have to deal deal with. Then if we take it further,
[00:05:02] further, then there's the economic economic barrier as well. It's very
[00:05:05] very expensive to run for elections elections in Nigeria. What do you
[00:05:09] you think an average cost would be be for a candidate who is probably
[00:05:12] probably running for the office of of governor? So you see that this
[00:05:15] this thing is very interesting because because for it's in two folds. First,
[00:05:19] First, there's the money you have have to spend to get the nomination
[00:05:22] nomination tickets so political parties parties can cap. So for example,
[00:05:25] example, ehm, Labour Party set its
[00:05:27] its presidential forms at 50 million, million, 50 million naira, 50 million
[00:05:31] million naira. That's about 35 or
[00:05:34] or $40,000. Yes. Right. Just to secure secure the ticket, the nomination,
[00:05:38] nomination, the nomination form, form, the nomination form. And that's
[00:05:42] that's not a guarantee that you that that you're going to be the candidate candidate candidate on the ballot,
[00:05:46] ballot, right? Because there's then then the politicking that happens
[00:05:49] happens in internally, right? So So you have the chieftains that you
[00:05:52] you have to get on your side there there is so to get those chieftains chieftains on your side, and I'm
[00:05:56] I'm not going to talk about the intricacies intricacies of inter-party or intra intra party politics because I mean,
[00:06:00] mean, I haven't run for office before, before, right? But from the things things that we've read and we've
[00:06:03] we've seen, even if you're not paying
[00:06:05] paying or exchanging money to get
[00:06:08] get their support, you're going to to have to travel because it's not
[00:06:11] not just about I mean, if it was was within the states, within your
[00:06:15] your state, maybe, you know, even even though you will use for to move
[00:06:18] move from your house to different different meetings at different places,
[00:06:20] places, many times these meetings meetings happen after dark. And then
[00:06:23] then you have to think about what what that means for a woman, you
[00:06:26] you know, so there's all of that that hurdle you have to cross to
[00:06:29] to even get a nomination ticket. ticket. Then you've gotten the nomination
[00:06:33] nomination ticket and we would say say political parties would usually
[00:06:35] usually say that for women, they
[00:06:38] they do a 50% women and young people, people, they do a 50% waiver. So
[00:06:42] So instead of paying 40,000 USD,
[00:06:44] USD, you then pay 20,000, let's say
[00:06:47] say by some miracle. The woman gets
[00:06:50] gets the tickets. You know, after after getting the ticket. Then there's
[00:06:53] there's then the main campaign you
[00:06:56] you have. So for example, the 2026
[00:06:59] 2026 Electoral Act, it does not prescribe prescribe that candidates must spend
[00:07:01] spend X amount of money. However,
[00:07:03] However, it gives a ceiling. And
[00:07:06] And so for a presidential candidate candidate the limit is 10 billion
[00:07:10] billion naira, 10 billion naira. naira. And I'm saying that multiple multiple times because there's a
[00:07:14] a way we are desensitised to money
[00:07:16] money in Nigeria. And so for a woman
[00:07:18] woman who is already on a normal
[00:07:21] normal day, women face economic barriers.
[00:07:24] barriers. If we were earning if we we were in the same office, there's there's chances are excellent that
[00:07:28] that we're not on the same pay and
[00:07:30] and all of that. So if we have equal equal aspirations to become president,
[00:07:33] president, we already don't have have access to the same funds. And
[00:07:37] And then there's a limit of 10 billion. billion. And you can imagine how
[00:07:40] how much media spend is. And so I I have to say I don't have that.
[00:07:44] that. I'm your male counterpart has has it. It doesn't just have it.
[00:07:47] it. He has structural support, which which is another thing. When you
[00:07:50] you say structural. Support, what what does that mean? I mean that
[00:07:52] that people are always willing to to back men than they are to back
[00:07:56] back women by default by default. default. And I and I think it's also
[00:07:59] also because we don't think that
[00:08:00] that she will win. And so it's an
[00:08:03] an investment. You say it's an investment. investment. So how are those people
[00:08:07] people hoping to reap their investment? investment? If you are able to spend
[00:08:10] spend up to 10 billion to put a candidate candidate forward, you want to make
[00:08:14] make sure that the candidate can can win the election. And it's unfortunate
[00:08:18] unfortunate that in how we make decisions
[00:08:21] decisions for who we would, how we we make decisions for who would vote
[00:08:25] vote for Nigerians have not gotten gotten to that place. The majority
[00:08:30] majority of Nigerians have not gotten gotten to that place where we vote
[00:08:33] vote on the basis of character, competence,
[00:08:37] competence, capacity, credibility. credibility. We haven't gotten there.
[00:08:39] there. But you. Know, the thing is
[00:08:41] is you mentioned earlier in this
[00:08:43] this conversation that women are are always, you know, canvassing
[00:08:46] canvassing for votes. They do they
[00:08:48] they go through the grids of forming
[00:08:52] forming the organisations pushing
[00:08:54] pushing a primaries or campaigns
[00:08:56] campaigns and all of that. So if
[00:08:59] if these women are credible enough.
[00:09:02] enough. And competent enough to go
[00:09:05] go to the back end of the work, why
[00:09:08] why can't they be the front runners?
[00:09:11] runners? And that's for me is the the question that we. Have to answer
[00:09:15] answer in Nigeria. But it will interest interest you to know that there was
[00:09:18] was a research that came out earlier earlier this year. I think it was was the research done. So a lot of
[00:09:22] of civil society organisations have have done voter intention surveys. surveys. I mean, leading up to the
[00:09:26] the elections, right. So I'm not not sure if it was, but I think the
[00:09:30] the research done by the Cocoa Citizen, Citizen, this research, what they they did was they got young people
[00:09:34] people to get their perception of of the upcoming elections. And one one of the questions that they posed
[00:09:38] posed to them was, Will you elect
[00:09:40] elect a female aspirant? And people
[00:09:44] people said, yes. But in my head
[00:09:48] head I now said, OK, if young people,
[00:09:51] people, the majority of eligible
[00:09:54] eligible voters in Nigeria would would elect a female candidate. So
[00:09:57] So the data not tell political parties
[00:10:01] parties that it makes sense to put
[00:10:03] put forward a credible female candidate.
[00:10:06] candidate. And then I remembered
[00:10:08] remembered that what people say and and what people do are two different
[00:10:11] different two different things. Now Now I've been speaking to Zainab
[00:10:15] Zainab Buba Galadima. She's a politician
[00:10:18] politician and social change advocate advocate based in Abuja, Nigeria's
[00:10:21] Nigeria's capital. She's been telling telling me about her journey and
[00:10:25] and the challenges she has faced
[00:10:27] faced along the way. Well, my experience
[00:10:31] experience is a mix of both. I come
[00:10:34] come from a family of politics so
[00:10:37] so sometimes I'm being judged within
[00:10:40] within the space based on which family
[00:10:43] family I come from, like who's my
[00:10:45] my father? But being a woman, it's
[00:10:47] it's a bit difficult and a bit challenging
[00:10:50] challenging because it costs a lot. lot. That is the number one challenge
[00:10:53] challenge women are facing here in in Nigeria, so it's not easy to buy
[00:10:56] buy the form. It's not easy to do
[00:10:59] do the logistics, to do the consultations consultations and then to run for
[00:11:02] for office proper because you have have to pay some agents to guard
[00:11:05] guard your votes and protect your your votes and make sure that you
[00:11:09] you know everything is free and fair.
[00:11:10] fair. So there's a lot of things
[00:11:13] things financial wise. There is culture
[00:11:16] culture wise and religious wise because because not everybody would accept
[00:11:20] accept a woman being in a position
[00:11:22] position of power. So that is something
[00:11:24] something that a lot of women face, face, especially in the remote in,
[00:11:28] in, in the core north. Because if
[00:11:30] if a woman sometimes comes out, a a lot of scholars, religious scholars
[00:11:34] scholars go to mosques and, you know, know, preach against it, do not vote
[00:11:37] vote for a woman. She's she's a weakling
[00:11:39] weakling and stuff like that. And
[00:11:42] And there's this thing about like like lack of mentorship. So a lot
[00:11:46] lot of women and also young people people as well, they do not have
[00:11:49] have the right mentorship. People People mistake mentorship for godfatherism.
[00:11:53] godfatherism. So there's that difference. difference. Being mentored is, you
[00:11:56] you know, being guided and being being put on the way to be able to
[00:11:58] to achieve your dreams in politics.
[00:12:01] politics. But the godfatherism is is a bit more complicated as much
[00:12:05] much as they put you, they guide guide you. They also invest money
[00:12:08] money in you and they expect something something in return. So you find
[00:12:12] find out that anybody that wins election election through that means they
[00:12:16] they do not have a mind of their
[00:12:18] their own. Most of the time they're
[00:12:20] they're being controlled by another another person and they hardly make
[00:12:23] make a difference because they are
[00:12:25] are paying back. You know, royalties
[00:12:29] royalties to their godfathers. So
[00:12:30] So there are so many issues going
[00:12:33] going on and most women are being being called names being in politics,
[00:12:36] politics, you know, like the culture
[00:12:39] culture wise doesn't really support,
[00:12:42] support, you know, women like that that in that sense. So for example,
[00:12:45] example, if you are married with with children, it's a bit difficult
[00:12:49] difficult for you because you have have to you have to attend to the
[00:12:52] the home, you have to do some wifely wifely duties. Basically, they really
[00:12:55] really want you to be that stay at at home, you know, wife and, you
[00:12:59] you know, perform, you know, accidentally accidentally like a robot. So they
[00:13:02] they find it difficult sometimes sometimes to accept the fact that that you're going places, you're
[00:13:06] you're breaking ceilings. They really really find it difficult. But they
[00:13:09] they are. But people are beginning beginning to, you know, accept the
[00:13:13] the fact that women, if you find
[00:13:15] find women of value, women of capacity,
[00:13:18] capacity, they do perform better better than the men. But the issue
[00:13:21] issue is how do you get there? So So getting there requires financial
[00:13:25] financial muscle. It requires mentorship. mentorship. It requires so many things
[00:13:28] things that will enable you to be be able to achieve that. You know,
[00:13:32] know, speaking of the method of selecting selecting candidates for parties,
[00:13:35] parties, I remember clearly the then
[00:13:38] then leading leading party, which which was the People's Democratic
[00:13:41] Democratic Party, who is now in opposition.
[00:13:45] opposition. There was a primaries primaries where there was a female
[00:13:48] female presidential candidate called
[00:13:51] called Sarah Jibril, and during that
[00:13:54] that primaries, the selection to
[00:13:56] to be a candidate, she was the only
[00:13:59] only one. She got only one vote. And that was her own vote.
[00:14:02] vote. And it was her vote. And there
[00:14:06] there were women who were delegates, delegates, as you have explained,
[00:14:09] explained, using the delegates to to select who would be the candidates.
[00:14:13] candidates. So I sat down thinking thinking back and saying to myself,
[00:14:16] myself, does it mean even the women
[00:14:19] women who were in that political political party who were assigned
[00:14:22] assigned as delegates did not also
[00:14:25] also see the competence in another
[00:14:27] another woman being the presidential presidential candidate for the party? party? Well. Maybe they just didn't
[00:14:31] didn't find her credible enough.
[00:14:32] enough. All of them, which is interesting.
[00:14:37] interesting. Interestingly, many
[00:14:38] many of the agencies or the parastatals
[00:14:41] parastatals of government that have
[00:14:43] have done well have been headed by
[00:14:46] by women. Exactly. Because I remember
[00:14:48] remember a. Few a few of these. And
[00:14:51] And I remember the late Dora Akunyili, Akunyili, who was the head of the
[00:14:54] the Drug and Food and Administration Administration Control Agency. I
[00:14:57] I remember all bears who was a minister
[00:15:00] minister at some point and was nicknamed nicknamed Madam Due Process because
[00:15:04] because of how, you know, she follows follows due process basically as
[00:15:07] as her name says, and a few women
[00:15:10] women also have, you know, held very
[00:15:13] very high estimable offices, but
[00:15:16] but yet it baffles me that these
[00:15:19] these women do not now translate
[00:15:22] translate into properly, democratically
[00:15:24] democratically elected offices. You You know, from their constituents.
[00:15:27] constituents. And then I'm wondering wondering where's the disconnect?
[00:15:30] disconnect? I think that a lot of
[00:15:32] of it is beyond the internal party
[00:15:34] party structures. It's also where where we are citizens. And I don't
[00:15:38] don't think it's OK for us to put put all the blame on I mean, political
[00:15:41] political parties and all of that.
[00:15:43] that. I feel like I agree that they they have their issues, but I think
[00:15:47] think it's also where we are as citizens. citizens. So for example, there's
[00:15:51] there's currently a bill in the National National Assembly that's put forward
[00:15:54] forward for reserved seats for women.
[00:15:56] women. And I mean, there are different different perspectives to that bill.
[00:16:00] bill. I also have like my own perspectives
[00:16:03] perspectives around the bill, but but large and by and large, the goal
[00:16:05] goal of the bill is to get more women
[00:16:09] women into representative offices.
[00:16:11] offices. Right? How many Nigerians
[00:16:14] Nigerians I'm not talking about civil
[00:16:16] civil society. I'm not talking about
[00:16:19] about I'm not talking about policy policy politicians or I'm talking
[00:16:22] talking about how many Nigerians
[00:16:24] Nigerians in terms of private sector sector leaders, regular Nigerians
[00:16:28] Nigerians have put their weight behind
[00:16:30] behind that bill. How many Nigerians
[00:16:33] Nigerians have called their lawmakers lawmakers to say this is a good thing?
[00:16:36] thing? We need to get this done.
[00:16:40] done. That's how laws should be passed. passed. It's not just about some
[00:16:42] some people sitting down in the National National Assembly and deliberating.
[00:16:45] deliberating. They're deliberating deliberating on our behalf. And so
[00:16:48] so there must be the place where
[00:16:51] where you are my lawmaker. We put put pressure on you to say this thing thing is important. But the thing
[00:16:55] thing is, I've also heard especially especially young people. I've also
[00:16:57] also heard young people say, look, look, our lawmakers are very there's
[00:17:01] there's a disconnect right from our
[00:17:04] our lawmakers are not approachable. approachable. They are not reachable
[00:17:07] reachable because we only see them them when during elections. So what
[00:17:10] what do we do? So what do we do.
[00:17:11] do. Next? Elections should also be
[00:17:15] be consequences. Lawmakers are also also supposed to have constituency
[00:17:19] constituency offices meaning in their their own constituency, right? Meaning
[00:17:22] Meaning that we should be able to to walk up to our lawmakers office
[00:17:25] office to drop a complaint and follow
[00:17:27] follow up, advocate for representative
[00:17:30] representative bills like the reserved reserved seat bill because now that's
[00:17:33] that's when you need critical mass mass of people to flood the lawmakers
[00:17:37] lawmakers emails, phone numbers everywhere. everywhere. His office, everywhere
[00:17:40] everywhere you see him, his legislative legislative aide to say this is important
[00:17:44] important to us. This is important important to us. You we need to get
[00:17:48] get more women into office. And why
[00:17:49] why do we need more women into office?
[00:17:52] office? Nigeria is not just we. The The percentage of women in this country,
[00:17:55] country, I think is almost a 5,050%
[00:17:57] 5,050% situation. Right? Right. So
[00:17:59] So how do we have half of the population
[00:18:03] population not represented in policy policy conversations? And so when
[00:18:05] when we are talking about how maternal maternal health crisis is increasing,
[00:18:08] increasing, we're talking about the the state of our education. We're
[00:18:11] We're talking about our the state state of our economy. It would be
[00:18:14] be interesting to note that in pre-colonial
[00:18:18] pre-colonial societies, the economy economy was usually controlled by
[00:18:22] by women. Till today we still have
[00:18:23] have what we call your alogia. Yeah.
[00:18:26] Yeah. The head of the head of the the market women. Why don't we have
[00:18:29] have Baba Alogia and that's Yoruba,
[00:18:34] Yoruba, right? Other tribes have have that and that's even the same
[00:18:37] same if you even go across other other like African countries, you
[00:18:40] you see that there is that thing thing where when it comes to markets,
[00:18:44] markets, commerce, women usually usually would control that. It was
[00:18:47] was not a situation where we thought thought that, oh, a man cannot do
[00:18:49] do it. But I think that it was a
[00:18:52] a situation where we said, oh, this
[00:18:54] this is what men do. This is what
[00:18:57] what women do. It's not you, you
[00:18:59] you can't do this. I can't do this.
[00:19:01] this. It's understanding that what
[00:19:03] what happened to it. What happened
[00:19:06] happened to it? But I have also heard heard political analysts say, you
[00:19:10] you know what? This younger generation
[00:19:12] generation of women are not audacious
[00:19:15] audacious enough to run for office office like the Funmilayo Ransome-Kuti
[00:19:19] Ransome-Kuti of that time, the Margaret Margaret echoes of that time. What
[00:19:22] What does the data say? It's not
[00:19:25] not about audacity. It's about models models that we've given. The younger
[00:19:29] younger generation. It's about what
[00:19:31] what young women grow up seeing that,
[00:19:33] that, oh, a woman can aspire to be
[00:19:36] be deputy governor, but she must must never aspire to be the main
[00:19:40] main ticket holder. Even more daring
[00:19:42] daring now is that we don't even
[00:19:44] even have female deputies any more,
[00:19:47] more, as we used to when I was growing
[00:19:49] growing up. Right now we see a lot lot of man a man, man a man, man
[00:19:53] man man man, a man, you know, doing doing their thing as governor and
[00:19:57] and deputy governor. Are you saying
[00:20:00] saying that in your political party party there is no credible woman
[00:20:04] woman that can deputise you or there there is no credible woman that can
[00:20:07] can even be the main ticket holder? holder? Is that thing from where
[00:20:11] where we are small where if you wanted
[00:20:14] wanted to be a class captain, they they will say that the guy is the
[00:20:17] the class captain and the girl is is the assistant class captain. When
[00:20:21] When you go to church, the head of of the department is a man and the
[00:20:24] the assistant is a woman because
[00:20:25] because a woman is good at managing
[00:20:28] managing things and doing the administrative administrative side of things. But
[00:20:31] But a man is good in leadership.
[00:20:37] leadership. And then when they you you have women that even dare to
[00:20:40] to dream. What does society do to to them? Right? OK. At this point
[00:20:44] point of time, I have to ask you
[00:20:47] you plain and simple is Nigeria ready
[00:20:52] ready for female leaders at the helm
[00:20:55] helm of affairs? What is what you
[00:20:57] you see? Many young people say many.
[00:21:00] many. Sensible well-meaning young young people is I mean, the point
[00:21:04] point is not about a personality.
[00:21:07] personality. So and if you strip strip out personality, it means you
[00:21:10] you also strip out gender, right? I understand what you're saying.
[00:21:13] saying. What are you looking. Out Out for? Is the person credible, credible, a person competent? What's
[00:21:17] What's the person's track record? record? You know, what is the person's
[00:21:20] person's plan, aspiration for the the country and what is how prepared
[00:21:24] prepared are they to even carry it it out? You know, those are the things
[00:21:27] things that young people say that that they look out for in a leader.
[00:21:30] leader. OK. But you see, the thing
[00:21:33] thing is you've given us a perspective
[00:21:36] perspective as to the traditional traditional society, you know, expectations
[00:21:40] expectations of women, men's roles, roles, women's roles, women should
[00:21:43] should always be subordinate to men.
[00:21:46] men. But we have seen that in climes
[00:21:48] climes like Rwanda, for instance,
[00:21:51] instance, that has the highest female
[00:21:54] female participation representation representation in, in parliament,
[00:21:57] parliament, Rwanda is also a traditional traditional African society. And
[00:22:01] And yet Nigeria that is one of the
[00:22:03] the biggest democracies in on the
[00:22:06] the continent, has 5% of women to
[00:22:08] to the. Affirmative action that they
[00:22:11] they had. Right. And it was a it
[00:22:14] it was more of a like a top down
[00:22:16] down approach as well. So it wasn't wasn't just people. So there's the
[00:22:19] the place of the demand for it where
[00:22:22] where citizens are saying that we we want this. So if there is a bill
[00:22:26] bill on the table, citizens are aware aware of it. They are pushing for
[00:22:29] for it as well. But then there was was also the place of we see the
[00:22:32] the benefit of having more women
[00:22:34] women in power. You know, and so
[00:22:37] so because of that, we're not just
[00:22:39] just having he forces for media fraternity
[00:22:44] fraternity or having he forces because because I think it's great for their
[00:22:47] their campaign, right? Because they they know that, oh, women will come come out to vote and women will canvass
[00:22:51] canvass for them to win. Now that that it's in a position to do something,
[00:22:55] something, the process has stalled.
[00:22:57] stalled. You see, I say elect me. me. Now when I get back into office,
[00:23:00] office, I'll make sure it happens. happens. Really? Do you see what what I mean? What I'm trying to say
[00:23:04] say is that for my understanding understanding with the Rwanda situation,
[00:23:07] situation, it's not just that they
[00:23:09] they did an affirmative action. There
[00:23:12] There was commitment from critical critical stakeholders. So not just
[00:23:15] just men. Now I'm talking about people
[00:23:18] people in the executive, people in in Parliament to make this happen.
[00:23:21] happen. So in this case. Now, do
[00:23:22] do you think there is no commitment
[00:23:25] commitment from Nigeria's stakeholders stakeholders to make the 35% affirmative
[00:23:28] affirmative action happen? I think
[00:23:32] think that there is no the commitment. commitment. Is it hasn't translated.
[00:23:36] translated. That's what I think. think. So we the thing. Is, we sent
[00:23:40] sent out word to our our audience
[00:23:43] audience to say we're going to have have this conversation about women
[00:23:46] women getting active in politics politics and and ending up on the
[00:23:50] the ballot for real. And we had quite
[00:23:55] quite a few responses. Right. OK. OK. So our first question here says,
[00:23:58] says, could the decline of third
[00:24:00] third spaces also be a reason why
[00:24:03] why women are not encouraged to participate
[00:24:06] participate in and become candidates? candidates? Well, I mean, that's
[00:24:08] that's very tied to the financial financial situation barrier that that we talked about or the economic
[00:24:12] economic barrier we talked about about earlier. But I think that there there are other there, there there
[00:24:16] there are other ways to mitigate mitigate that. You know, you don't
[00:24:19] don't have to always do a physical physical and physical engagements.
[00:24:22] engagements. And that's why that's that's the power of digital organising. organising. What digital organising
[00:24:26] organising helps you do. It helps helps you amplify. You could be doing
[00:24:29] doing so you could have done a very very small outreach, but it did. did. But digital organising would
[00:24:33] would help you amplify it and make make it larger than life. I also
[00:24:37] also think that for every opportunity
[00:24:39] opportunity where young women have have to engage with their constituents
[00:24:43] constituents for every opportunity, opportunity, they have to engage
[00:24:45] engage with them, they should show show them an alternative to politics,
[00:24:49] politics, right? An alternative whereby
[00:24:51] whereby we are leading by it's about
[00:24:53] about 70 to humanity and to that
[00:24:55] that I think is is best in the long long run. I don't think that the
[00:24:59] the absence or the cost of it is is I think it's a barrier. I agree,
[00:25:02] agree, but I think that there are are ways that the innovative ways
[00:25:05] ways to move around it as well. Yeah.
[00:25:07] Yeah. Before I let you go, are. You
[00:25:09] You going to run for political office?
[00:25:13] office? Maybe it's not it's. Not Not an aspiration that I currently
[00:25:16] currently have. Thank you so much
[00:25:19] much for joining me today on The The Conversation. It's been a great
[00:25:23] great chat talking about women getting
[00:25:25] getting into politics and being candidates,
[00:25:27] candidates, ending up on the ballot ballot and instead of just being
[00:25:31] being back end organisers. And that's that's it on focus on Africa. The
[00:25:34] The conversation today coming to to you from Lagos, Nigeria. Now you
[00:25:38] you can find more episodes of our our podcast on our YouTube channel.
[00:25:42] channel. And don't forget to subscribe
[00:25:44] subscribe to BBC Africa to get the the latest content and above all,
[00:25:48] all, be a member of the family. Also
[00:25:50] Also leave a comment on our socials socials at BBC Africa on my handle
[00:25:54] handle at. I am on Chi Chi Izundu Izundu and that's with double N and
[00:25:58] and I'm yours truly. I'll catch you.
[00:26:00] you. I'll see you next time.
[00:29:40] MUSIC
[00:30:13] Live from London. This is BBC
[00:30:16] News. President Zelensky welcomes
[00:30:18] welcomes Donald Trump's idea of an an energy ceasefire, but says Russia
[00:30:21] Russia is continuing to attack Ukrainian
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[00:30:26] the announcement by the US. Another Another strike hits Riyadh's main
[00:30:30] main airport in Saudi Arabia, a day day after 13 people were killed and
[00:30:34] and hundreds wounded in a Houthi
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[00:30:42] deadly shipwreck off the coast of
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[00:30:53] distress. Manchester City win 3-0
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