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[00:00:00] that we need to look at, and that's that's the long range strikes. And And we talked about this a little
[00:00:04] little bit this morning. And President President Zelensky mentioned this,
[00:00:07] this, you know, the continued attacks attacks on energy infrastructure infrastructure that are intended
[00:00:11] intended to make it hard on the civilian civilian population and try to break
[00:00:14] break the will of the Ukrainian people. people. That's going to make for
[00:00:17] for a very hard winter. I will also also say it's probably not going
[00:00:21] going to work if we have you know, know, people have underestimated underestimated the Ukrainians since
[00:00:24] since the beginning of this conflict. conflict. I'm not going to make that that mistake again. They're going
[00:00:27] going to get through this winter. winter. They're going to come out
[00:00:30] out of it with more resolve and more more fight. Ultimately, I hope that
[00:00:33] that we can I hope that we can end
[00:00:36] end this conflict and achieve a lasting
[00:00:39] lasting peace. But if we can't, I I know the Ukrainians are going to
[00:00:42] to continue to fight. You and Nato
[00:00:50] Nato have, of course, been observing observing what's happening in Ukraine
[00:00:54] Ukraine for the last five years. years. How would the theory of different
[00:00:57] different of victory differ were
[00:00:59] were it not for this conflict? What What have you learned based on what
[00:01:03] what you're seeing on the battlefield? battlefield? And of course, beyond?
[00:01:07] beyond? Because this is a war on on all different fronts, including
[00:01:09] including the cyber and the info info space war? Sure. You know, I
[00:01:13] I think a affordable mass is one one of the areas that would be a a little bit different. We would
[00:01:17] would learn some of that from the the Middle East, but not nearly as as much as we see in Ukraine with
[00:01:21] with a large number of drones, both both short range and longer range.
[00:01:24] range. Those will be a feature of of the modern battlefield electronic
[00:01:27] electronic warfare on the modern modern battlefield is also a feature feature that we have to account for.
[00:01:31] for. You know, if you go into the the details of the theory of victory
[00:01:34] victory and think about what our our brigades and our battalions need
[00:01:37] need to be able to do what our air air power needs to do. You'll see
[00:01:40] see a lot of those capabilities start start to be hung on the, you know,
[00:01:43] know, as ornaments on the tree, if if you will, that that bring this
[00:01:45] this to life and make it not just just a theory, but something that that we can practice. And so that
[00:01:49] that that work is ongoing. We're We're learning a tonne from our Ukrainian
[00:01:52] Ukrainian partners. They are willing willing to work with us and help
[00:01:55] help make us better. And that's a
[00:01:56] a huge advantage that we have. And
[00:02:01] And regarding our European partners,
[00:02:03] partners, you said that we see now
[00:02:05] now not only non-kinetic but really
[00:02:07] really kinetic attacks on Nato member
[00:02:11] member states, on European member member states of Nato. How do you
[00:02:14] you think we should be responding responding to this today? So whenever
[00:02:17] whenever we talk about the types types of attacks that are ongoing
[00:02:21] ongoing right now, a couple of things things that I highlight. The first
[00:02:24] first is whenever the nation that's that's come under attack is ready
[00:02:27] ready and has met their legal requirements requirements to attribute the attack,
[00:02:30] attack, we ought to do that. That That lets the Russians know a that
[00:02:33] that we're onto them. It lets them them know that their network wasn't wasn't as unattributable as they
[00:02:37] they thought it was. They think they they can get away with this because because we won't be able to figure
[00:02:40] figure out who it is. We ought to to tell them. We can figure out who who it is. The second thing that
[00:02:44] that I mentioned is one of the main main objectives is to break the West's
[00:02:48] West's will to continue flowing support support to Ukraine. So one of the
[00:02:51] the best responses is to prove that that false to them. And when they
[00:02:55] they come in, when one of these attack attack happens, respond by increasing
[00:02:58] increasing your contributions to to the Perl programme or respond
[00:03:01] respond with a donation of air defence defence interceptors and show that
[00:03:04] that the Russian premise for their their activity is false and you're
[00:03:07] you're only strengthening our resolve. resolve. The second thing that I'd
[00:03:10] I'd say very quickly is co-ordination
[00:03:13] co-ordination across allies as we we contemplate how we might respond respond to this, what our messaging
[00:03:16] messaging looks like. This is essential essential to ensure that we give
[00:03:19] give the Russians a coherent response response rather than something that
[00:03:23] that is ad hoc and not co-ordinated.
[00:03:26] co-ordinated. And that could be confusing confusing with different voices coming coming from different nations. So
[00:03:29] So it's important that allies continue continue to consult. Think about about how we might respond and make
[00:03:33] make sure that we message clearly clearly and concisely to the Russians
[00:03:36] Russians where our red lines are. are. Well, I'll tell you what worries
[00:03:39] worries me. When you were talking
[00:03:42] talking about the capabilities we we have. Wow. Just wow. Of course,
[00:03:45] course, in this room we were having having in the back of our mind that
[00:03:49] that the adversary is Russia. And
[00:03:50] And with everything we have as Nato,
[00:03:53] Nato, it is overwhelming, no doubt doubt about that. But what worries worries me and many people in this
[00:03:57] this room is actually the political political factor. The people who
[00:04:00] who make the decisions, the people people who will make the decision
[00:04:03] decision that hard orders that you'll you'll have to make, but most importantly, importantly, the politicians who
[00:04:06] who will tell you to do these orders
[00:04:09] orders that they at some point might
[00:04:12] might blink. At some point they will will say, but this is not our war.
[00:04:16] war. We don't want to be part of
[00:04:18] of this war. That article five is
[00:04:20] is going to fail. Is that at all
[00:04:22] all something that keeps you up at
[00:04:24] at night? It doesn't. And I'll reference
[00:04:28] reference the Ankara declaration declaration from the summit in Ankara.
[00:04:31] Ankara. All 32 allies signed on to to an extremely strong declaration
[00:04:34] declaration that talked about the the ironclad commitment to article article five. And I take our leaders
[00:04:38] leaders of state and government at at their word. I was in the room
[00:04:41] room watching the leaders talk as as several of the. The folks in this
[00:04:44] this room were as well. And you know, know, when President Trump came out
[00:04:47] out and said, I think he used the the term, there was a lot of love
[00:04:50] love in the room. I just tell everyone everyone I was in the room and I
[00:04:53] I felt the love. It was there. This
[00:04:55] This great mutual respect for the the direction that the President
[00:04:58] President had pushed the alliance, alliance, the wake-up call that he'd
[00:05:01] he'd issued. And no one's arguing arguing about whether Europe needs
[00:05:04] needs to do more or whether we need
[00:05:06] need to do Nato 3.0. Now we're talking talking about how do we do it? We're
[00:05:10] We're in the implementation phase phase and that is driving stronger stronger and more United Alliance
[00:05:14] Alliance than I've seen in a long, long, long time. OK, not a hard one.
[00:05:17] one. A few people ask me this in
[00:05:20] in this room if there is an attack
[00:05:22] attack and we have this, you know,
[00:05:25] know, forces making sure that this this attack is stopped. Well, among
[00:05:29] among the ground forces, the American
[00:05:31] American troops. Look, we have American
[00:05:35] American troops here in Poland today. today. We have American troops that
[00:05:37] that are arrayed across the eastern eastern flank. You know, ultimately
[00:05:41] ultimately it's a political decision decision about who's providing troops troops where. But I think no one
[00:05:45] one should question the commitment commitment of the United States to
[00:05:47] to this alliance. I mean, I'm right right here. I'm an American officer
[00:05:51] officer that was sent here by President President Trump, nominated to the
[00:05:53] the US Senate. Thank you for your your vote, senators. And nominated
[00:05:57] nominated to the North Atlantic Council Council for the role that I'm in.
[00:06:00] in. That was all done by President President Trump. That's a commitment
[00:06:03] commitment to the alliance. And I I think that that is not just me
[00:06:07] me as fearful as I am. Minister. Minister. There's a lot more that
[00:06:11] that comes with that. When America America makes that commitment. So
[00:06:14] So what does keep you up at night?
[00:06:16] night? There has to be something.
[00:06:19] something. I like to answer this
[00:06:21] this like a former leader in the
[00:06:23] the United States used to say, and and that is nothing actually keeps
[00:06:27] keeps me up at night. My job is to
[00:06:29] to keep other people up at night.
[00:06:33] night. I want your job. And to conclude,
[00:06:43] conclude, general, what is the message
[00:06:45] message you want to leave when you
[00:06:48] you leave Warsaw? What do you think
[00:06:50] think is the key message for this this audience for the Polish population?
[00:06:54] population? And of course, to our our adversaries? Well, I'll tell
[00:06:57] tell you to the Polish population, population, what I would say is keep
[00:07:00] keep doing what you're doing. You're You're here on the eastern flank. flank. You're an incredibly important
[00:07:03] important ally and you're showing showing your commitment to article article three of the North Atlantic
[00:07:07] Atlantic Treaty and investing in in your own defence. And you're making making the alliance much, much stronger
[00:07:11] stronger as you do so to the broader broader community across this continent.
[00:07:15] continent. The European part of the the alliance and to audiences in
[00:07:18] in North America. I mean, unity is
[00:07:20] is our strength and we are more unified, unified, more together on this journey
[00:07:24] journey that we are than we've than than we've been before. And I think think that's absolutely incredible.
[00:07:28] incredible. And then the last thing thing I'll just go back to what I
[00:07:31] I said, we do have this. We should
[00:07:33] should be confident in our abilities abilities and our capabilities to
[00:07:36] to handle not just the current environment environment that we're facing, but
[00:07:39] but any potential threat to our alliance alliance territory or people. We
[00:07:43] We absolutely have this under control, control, and you should be confident confident in that. General, thank
[00:07:46] thank you for being with us and thank thank you for finding your the time
[00:07:50] time to announce this theory here
[00:07:52] here in Warsaw. We really appreciate
[00:07:54] appreciate it. That is General Alexis
[00:08:05] Alexis in conversation with Kateryna Kateryna Pisarska, Polish social
[00:08:09] social entrepreneur and international international security expert, speaking
[00:08:12] speaking there at the Warsaw Security Security Forum. Let me just briefly
[00:08:16] briefly sum up what he said. He presented
[00:08:18] presented Nato's theory of victory.
[00:08:20] victory. Remember, he is one of Nato's
[00:08:23] Nato's top commanders and he said said this theory of victory is a
[00:08:27] a vision of how Nato wins in deterrence
[00:08:30] deterrence and defence. He said it it was a clear eyed view of threats
[00:08:33] threats we face based on modern warfare
[00:08:36] warfare in Ukraine and in the Middle
[00:08:38] Middle East. And he said I assure
[00:08:41] assure the 1 billion citizens of of our alliance we got this. And
[00:08:44] And he said that a couple of times times talking about, of course, Poland's
[00:08:48] Poland's position on the eastern eastern flank of Nato. It borders
[00:08:51] borders Ukraine. And some questions
[00:08:54] questions on Russia there put to
[00:08:58] to him in that conversation. And
[00:09:00] And with me is BBC Monitoring's chief chief analyst Vitaly Shevchenko.
[00:09:03] Shevchenko. Vitaly, good to have
[00:09:04] have you with us to talk about this
[00:09:07] this and about energy security as as well and energy ceasefire. But
[00:09:10] But just first of all, to what we we heard there in Warsaw, what did
[00:09:14] did you make of what General Grynkewich
[00:09:18] Grynkewich had to say, particularly particularly in terms of how Nato
[00:09:22] Nato deals with Russia? He spent
[00:09:25] spent a lot of time begging up Nato's
[00:09:29] Nato's capabilities and clearly he
[00:09:30] he was trying to send out the message
[00:09:34] message that, you know, we mean it,
[00:09:35] it, we're serious and we are capable.
[00:09:39] capable. However, my view is that
[00:09:42] that there's one point where Russia's
[00:09:45] Russia's and Nato's interests coincide.
[00:09:48] coincide. And that point lies in
[00:09:51] in the aspiration that these huge
[00:09:54] huge capabilities that Nato has are
[00:09:57] are never actually used. Russia is
[00:10:00] is quite well. I think they know
[00:10:03] know that they will stand very little
[00:10:06] little chance of defeating this alliance, alliance, especially now that Russia
[00:10:10] Russia is bogged down in Ukraine
[00:10:13] Ukraine for Nato going to war, hot
[00:10:17] hot war with Russia is going to be
[00:10:21] be a costly decision in more ways
[00:10:23] ways than one, not just money, but
[00:10:27] but very, very likely deaths of its
[00:10:30] its soldiers. So this is clearly clearly what they want to avoid.
[00:10:34] avoid. So no surprise that the general general described his theory of victory
[00:10:37] victory as a vision. First of all, all, of deterrence and then defence.
[00:10:41] defence. And yet you say that both
[00:10:43] both Russia and Nato want to avoid
[00:10:45] avoid boots on the ground. That sort sort of situation. But I suppose
[00:10:49] suppose one of the big questions questions for European leaders who've
[00:10:52] who've talked a lot about hybrid hybrid threats from Russia is how
[00:10:54] how far Nato is prepared to go in in terms of dealing with those hybrid
[00:10:57] hybrid threats. And one big question question that occurred to me as I
[00:11:01] I was listening to the general Vitali,
[00:11:04] Vitali, is to what extent does Nato's
[00:11:06] Nato's military plans, Nato's military
[00:11:09] military strategy chime with how how far the United States, which
[00:11:13] which of course has Nato's biggest
[00:11:15] biggest army, is prepared to engage engage in this strategy? Well, exactly.
[00:11:18] exactly. I found it notable that that the general used the phrase
[00:11:22] phrase and I quote that the Alliance
[00:11:25] Alliance will want to deny the ability
[00:11:27] ability to seize and hold our territory.
[00:11:30] territory. And as we will know, it's it's not just about the actual territory
[00:11:34] territory these days. It's about
[00:11:36] about undermining the very fabric
[00:11:38] fabric that holds democracies together.
[00:11:41] together. So people listening to
[00:11:43] to his speech would only hope that
[00:11:46] that the alliance has plans to defeat
[00:11:50] defeat the enemy's plans to undermine undermine their democracies. When
[00:11:54] When it comes to how committed Washington
[00:11:58] Washington is these days to the alliance
[00:12:00] alliance he sought to assuage those
[00:12:03] those concerns that it's not by saying
[00:12:05] saying that nobody should question
[00:12:07] question that commitment, but the
[00:12:09] the past history, recent history history of relations between the
[00:12:13] the alliance and Donald Trump. I I think it justifies those questions.
[00:12:17] questions. Let's talk a bit about
[00:12:20] about then the energy ceasefire, ceasefire, the surprise energy ceasefire
[00:12:23] ceasefire announced by President President Trump at the weekend. Earlier
[00:12:26] Earlier in Warsaw, President Zelensky Zelensky was speaking. He appeared
[00:12:29] appeared to throw down the gauntlet gauntlet effectively to Russia, saying,
[00:12:33] saying, you know, Ukraine will sign sign up to this. Russia needs to.
[00:12:36] to. And if it doesn't, America needs needs to deal with that. That seemed
[00:12:39] seemed to be the underlying thread thread in what he was saying. What
[00:12:42] What response has there been from
[00:12:44] from the Kremlin? Vitaly non-committal.
[00:12:47] non-committal. It's very important
[00:12:49] important to note that neither Russia
[00:12:52] Russia nor Ukraine have actually actually said that this ceasefire
[00:12:56] ceasefire is is happening. The Kremlin Kremlin spokesman, Dmitry Peskov,
[00:13:00] Peskov, was asked about the alleged
[00:13:03] alleged ceasefire this morning, and
[00:13:05] and he said that and I quote context context continue. And if we have
[00:13:09] have anything to say on the subject,
[00:13:11] subject, we will. Which again raises
[00:13:14] raises doubts in my mind that this
[00:13:15] this is actually going ahead. And
[00:13:19] And also it's worth remembering that
[00:13:21] that the past four and a half years
[00:13:23] years in fact, more than a decade
[00:13:26] decade of this conflict between Russia
[00:13:27] Russia and Ukraine is littered with
[00:13:30] with failed ceasefires, ceasefires ceasefires that failed even before
[00:13:34] before they started. So personally,
[00:13:37] personally, I have a huge doubts
[00:13:38] doubts that this will result in any
[00:13:42] any decrease in attacks in Ukraine
[00:13:44] Ukraine on energy or anything else else at all. Yeah. We've got about
[00:13:47] about a minute left on this conversation,
[00:13:52] conversation, Vitaly, in terms of of this energy ceasefire, do you
[00:13:55] you think Russia will feel compelled
[00:13:58] compelled to do anything more so
[00:14:00] so long as this diesel deal between
[00:14:02] between the US and Russia stays in
[00:14:05] in place? I don't think so. It's
[00:14:08] It's not crucial to Putin that this
[00:14:13] this amount of diesel gets delivered delivered or sold at all. He will
[00:14:17] will still have buyers from China
[00:14:19] China and India. And we have to remember
[00:14:23] remember that Russia was not exporting
[00:14:25] exporting any diesel to begin with.
[00:14:27] with. It banned diesel exports because
[00:14:29] because it wants it itself. So from
[00:14:32] from the point of view of the Kremlin,
[00:14:34] Kremlin, I think it's political rather
[00:14:38] rather than economic signalling that
[00:14:41] that Putin is back in from the cold.
[00:14:44] cold. He's not isolated and getting getting an extra cash as well. That
[00:14:47] That helps too. OK. Vitaly Shevchenko, Shevchenko, editor for BBC Monitoring
[00:14:51] Monitoring thank you very much for for your thoughts on those developments
[00:14:54] developments today. And in just a a moment, we'll be getting the view
[00:14:57] view from the US on all of this. this. So do stay with us around the
[00:15:00] the world and across the UK.
[00:16:04] people. For the latest, follow us us on the President's path here on
[00:16:07] on BBC News. OK, let's pick up on
[00:16:13] on what we were talking about a moment
[00:16:15] moment ago. And look now at Donald Donald Trump's energy cease fire
[00:16:18] fire deal and ask how that is playing playing out in the United States.
[00:16:22] States. Just about three weeks away away from the US mid-term elections
[00:16:26] elections on the 3rd of November. November. And joining us is Sri US
[00:16:29] US politics reporter for The Guardian. Guardian. Sri. Good to have you with
[00:16:32] with us. Much to talk about here here today. First of all I'm curious
[00:16:35] curious to know what the reaction
[00:16:38] reaction is from Republicans specifically specifically to all of this because,
[00:16:41] because, you know, looking at this this over the last 24 hours or so,
[00:16:45] so, there seems to have been quite
[00:16:47] quite a lot of a feeling of President
[00:16:50] President Trump not perhaps dealing dealing as fairly with Ukraine as
[00:16:53] as he might do on this issue. Yeah,
[00:16:57] Yeah, exactly. There's been a real
[00:17:00] real pushback from Republicans on
[00:17:01] on Capitol Hill in a way that is
[00:17:04] is unusual in this Congress. Seven Seven senators on the Foreign Relations
[00:17:08] Relations Committee have issued a a statement condemning the President's
[00:17:12] President's move to lift these sanctions sanctions on Russia. Russian, Russian
[00:17:15] Russian oil imports. And three of
[00:17:17] of those are Republicans, three Republicans Republicans on that committee. And
[00:17:20] And their real issue here is that
[00:17:22] that they feel that this move essentially essentially violates the law. If
[00:17:25] If you remember in 2022, the Senate
[00:17:28] Senate unanimously passed a bill
[00:17:31] bill to sort of pause Russian oil oil imports to the US and there's
[00:17:34] there's been no move to scrap that
[00:17:36] that law. So the Republicans on this this committee as well have said
[00:17:39] said that there is a concern here here that this is in violation of
[00:17:43] of that. And Democrats have been
[00:17:45] been pretty resolute with their frustration. frustration. Chuck Schumer, the Senate
[00:17:49] Senate minority leader, called it
[00:17:50] it a deal with the devil. And they
[00:17:54] they sort of sounded the alarm here
[00:17:56] here about what problem this could could be moving forward, both in
[00:17:59] in terms of the US support for Ukraine Ukraine and sort of diplomacy at
[00:18:03] at large. Yeah. With the mid-terms, mid-terms, three weeks, three weeks
[00:18:07] weeks away, what is the President's President's goal with all of this?
[00:18:09] this? Does he think that US voters voters are going to buy into the
[00:18:13] the optics of this, the optics, the
[00:18:14] the suggestion that this could somehow somehow bring down diesel prices
[00:18:18] prices in the US., which most analysts
[00:18:20] analysts are saying will not happen. happen. Yes, there is a real hope
[00:18:23] hope here that this is going to ease ease the burden that many US consumers
[00:18:27] consumers are facing, particularly particularly at the price at the
[00:18:29] the pump moving into November, which
[00:18:32] which is a huge political liability liability for the President right
[00:18:35] right now and his party having to to answer for a lot of his unpopular
[00:18:39] unpopular policies. And the real real question here, as you mentioned, mentioned, is whether it's going
[00:18:42] going to make a dent. The number
[00:18:46] number of oil barrels and diesel
[00:18:49] diesel barrels that would be imported imported essentially immediately.
[00:18:52] immediately. And in November is only only a fraction of what diesel the
[00:18:56] the amount of diesel that US consumers
[00:18:59] consumers use per day and the amount amount of time it's going to take
[00:19:02] take to get here. Plus possible possible possible litigation about it. It
[00:19:06] It could mean that this isn't going
[00:19:07] going to have a remotely an impact
[00:19:10] impact moving forward into November. November. And with the Democrats
[00:19:14] Democrats hoping certainly having having ambitions to emerge from the
[00:19:17] the mid-terms in control of both
[00:19:20] both houses of Congress, what are are Democrat politicians saying about
[00:19:24] about all of this? They're being being pretty clear that this is a
[00:19:28] a flouting the law. But also this
[00:19:31] this is essentially something that that is politically optimal for the
[00:19:35] the President. But also doubling doubling down on the fact that the
[00:19:38] the crisis here when it comes to to price at the pump, is a problem
[00:19:42] problem of the President's own making. making. They are pointing to the
[00:19:44] the fact that we've seen this huge
[00:19:46] huge spike in oil prices ever since
[00:19:49] since the war in Iran. And this is is in many ways a distraction from
[00:19:53] from that. And, you know, a problem
[00:19:55] problem that the President is trying trying to have to, to solve with
[00:19:59] with another issue now, possibly possibly on the world stage. OK.
[00:20:02] OK. Thank you very much for joining
[00:20:04] joining us on BBC News. Thank you. you. And let's get some more now
[00:20:08] now on the implications of that so-called so-called theory of victory set out
[00:20:12] out by the Nato Supreme Allied commander. commander. Speaking to the BBC Security
[00:20:15] Security Brief programme, the generals generals Deputy Air Chief Marshal
[00:20:19] Marshal Sir Johnny Stringer said
[00:20:20] said the strategy would aim to streamline
[00:20:23] streamline operations across land, land, sea, air, space and cyber in
[00:20:26] in order to outthink and outact Nato's
[00:20:29] Nato's adversaries. The concept that
[00:20:33] that the title of Theory of Victory Victory goes goes back in military
[00:20:36] military thinking many, many decades.
[00:20:38] decades. It kind of set out the main
[00:20:41] main tenets of how a commander would
[00:20:43] would see him using his forces, most
[00:20:48] most obviously for General Grynkewich Grynkewich in the defensive alliance
[00:20:52] alliance that is Nato in the deterrent
[00:20:54] deterrent sense. But make no mistake,
[00:20:56] mistake, if we had to fight any adversary,
[00:20:59] adversary, we fight to win and we we fight to restore deterrence. So
[00:21:03] So the tenets of a theory of victory victory and what I think you will
[00:21:06] will see my boss having set out is
[00:21:10] is integrating effects across what what we would call the domains. So
[00:21:14] So the traditional of air, land and
[00:21:18] and maritime, but increasingly important
[00:21:20] important of course, space and cyber
[00:21:22] cyber almost to underpin all. So
[00:21:24] So Johnny, I want to I want to hit
[00:21:27] hit the drone threat question on on the nose. We know that we know
[00:21:30] know that Russia is capable of putting putting 1500 drones into Ukraine
[00:21:34] Ukraine in a 24 hour period. If that that same number of drones came over
[00:21:38] over the border tonight into Nato
[00:21:42] Nato territory, could Nato stop them?
[00:21:45] them? And if they can, with what?
[00:21:47] what? So I think your question goes
[00:21:50] goes to two points, if I may. The
[00:21:53] The first obviously on uncrewed systems
[00:21:55] systems and maybe we'll return to to that which is a truism across
[00:21:58] across all domains and has been apparent
[00:22:01] apparent for at least 20 years, even
[00:22:04] even if the scale has differed to to the particular question on air
[00:22:08] air defence. And it comes back to to what I said about that period
[00:22:11] period of peace. We were able to to think of the employment of, in
[00:22:15] in this case most obviously fighter
[00:22:17] fighter jets in the role of air policing.
[00:22:19] policing. It almost had that constabulary
[00:22:23] constabulary comfortable feel about about it. What Ukraine sadly has
[00:22:27] has shown is. And Russian aggression
[00:22:30] aggression is that actually we need
[00:22:31] need to re adopt an air defence mindset.
[00:22:35] mindset. So to your point, one of of the things that you are already
[00:22:39] already seeing is how we are re posturing
[00:22:41] posturing the forces that we've got
[00:22:44] got bringing in new systems to augment
[00:22:46] augment them because we've got to
[00:22:48] to recognise that a threat that people people would have been comfortable
[00:22:51] comfortable with even maybe five
[00:22:53] five years ago in terms of the capability
[00:22:56] capability that adversary had and
[00:22:58] and all the scale at which they could
[00:23:01] could employ it now ranges down to to incredibly cheap drones at one
[00:23:04] one end of the spectrum to ballistic ballistic missiles at the other,
[00:23:08] other, and pretty much to all points
[00:23:09] points in between. So there's been
[00:23:12] been significant work that's gone
[00:23:14] gone on in my part of Nato and allied
[00:23:16] allied command operations to bring
[00:23:18] bring forces in all of the domains
[00:23:21] domains back to those five warfighting
[00:23:24] warfighting domains that Nato recognises recognises to make sure that the
[00:23:27] the capability we put up is as strong
[00:23:30] strong as it can be. And remember, remember, tomorrow is going to be
[00:23:33] be better than today. So this doesn't
[00:23:36] doesn't stop that thinking applied
[00:23:37] applied to bringing in capability capability to the operational concepts
[00:23:41] concepts to make sure that we can can meet and beat any threat that
[00:23:45] that comes at us. And there's more
[00:23:47] more of that interview on the BBC
[00:23:49] BBC News YouTube channel. And a reminder
[00:23:51] reminder the security brief is going
[00:23:54] going live in front of a studio audience audience tonight. You can watch that
[00:23:56] that here on BBC News, BBC iPlayer iPlayer and the BBC News YouTube
[00:24:00] YouTube channel. Today at 7:30pm
[00:24:04] 7:30pm UK time. Christian Fraser Fraser and Mikey Kay will be taking taking you inside the war in Ukraine
[00:24:07] Ukraine with live analysis and a
[00:24:11] a panel of guests. And here the Prime Prime Minister, Andy Burnham, has
[00:24:15] has said that Russia interfered with with the Brexit referendum and warned
[00:24:18] warned that similar activities were were taking place in France and Germany.
[00:24:22] Germany. The Prime Minister told told the Rest Is Politics podcast
[00:24:25] podcast that upon arriving in number number ten, he had asked about possible
[00:24:29] possible Russian interference in in the 2016 vote, adding I've had
[00:24:33] had the clear answer that yes there there was. Mr Burnham didn't provide
[00:24:36] provide further details about the
[00:24:38] the type or extent of Moscow's activity
[00:24:41] activity during the Brexit referendum. referendum. Now I want to take you
[00:24:44] you to another story. The continuing continuing protests in India. Let's
[00:24:48] Let's show you these live pictures
[00:24:50] pictures coming to us from Delhi
[00:24:53] Delhi because protesters and police
[00:24:55] police out on the streets in their
[00:24:57] their thousands again today. Congress
[00:25:00] Congress MP Rahul Gandhi among those
[00:25:04] those marching to the Supreme Court
[00:25:05] Court in Delhi to demand the resignation
[00:25:08] resignation of the chief election election officer over alleged voter
[00:25:11] voter fraud. They say that millions
[00:25:14] millions of names have been removed
[00:25:18] removed from the voter register, register, and they allege that that
[00:25:21] that is to benefit Narendra Modi's
[00:25:24] Modi's BJP party. Now there were
[00:25:28] were protests on this same issue issue by the Cockroach Janta Party
[00:25:31] Party over the weekend. Thousands Thousands of demonstrators and one
[00:25:34] one of its leaders arrested or detained
[00:25:38] detained and subsequently released.
[00:25:40] released. But this protest movement movement really showing no signs
[00:25:44] signs of abating here in India. A
[00:25:46] A few months ago it was about education.
[00:25:48] education. The issue now at stake
[00:25:52] stake is the elections in India and
[00:25:54] and the opposition parties alleging
[00:25:56] alleging voter fraud. The chief Justice
[00:25:59] Justice declined a meeting with opposition
[00:26:01] opposition lawmakers, citing, quote, quote, certain reasons but not providing
[00:26:05] providing what they were. Stay with
[00:26:06] with us here on BBC News.
[00:29:45] MUSIC
[00:30:11] Live from London. This is BBC
[00:30:13] News. In a warning to Russia, Nato's Nato's top military commander says
[00:30:17] says the alliance would block blunt
[00:30:19] blunt and break any attack on its
[00:30:21] its members as fears grow over the
[00:30:23] the threat from Moscow. Meantime, Meantime, Ukraine's President Volodymyr
[00:30:27] Volodymyr Zelensky says Russia hit hit a power plant in Ukraine immediately
[00:30:30] immediately after Donald Trump announced announced what he called an energy
[00:30:34] energy ceasefire. It was clear that
[00:30:37] that Putin does not read Truth Social
[00:30:42] Social and his cheeky drones follow
[00:30:43] follow a different set of instructions.
[00:30:47] instructions. Saudi officials say say one person has been killed and
[00:30:50] and nearly a dozen others injured injured in the latest attack on Riyadh's
[00:30:54] Riyadh's international airport by by the Iran backed Houthi group in
[00:30:57] in Yemen. Thousands of people march march in