BBCPERSIAN — broadcast
20260806 003000 UTC
366 transcript segments
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[00:00:00] Content production and even decision-making in some public services,
[00:00:04] AI is becoming more involved every day. If these
[00:00:08] systems portray women as less capable, less experienced,
[00:00:11] and confined to traditional roles, this same image
[00:00:15] can influence real decisions about women.
[00:00:18] From job opportunities and visibility
[00:00:22] in the online space to the image that future generations
[00:00:26] will have of women's roles in society. If you work
[00:00:30] in the field of AI or would like to know more about it, send me a message
[00:00:33] on Instagram and write your
[00:00:35] comments for me.
[00:00:40] Click every week on BBC
[00:00:42] Persian
[00:00:49] and now on BBC Persian Television
[00:00:52] documentary.
[00:01:14] Welcome to Globalala from BBC World Service. In the next
[00:01:18] half hour, you will watch a selection of our best investigative and field
[00:01:22] reports. I am Katya Adler, editor of the European
[00:01:25] section of BBC, and I have come to Greenland to find out why Donald Trump
[00:01:29] is interested in
[00:01:37] The use of force has subsided for now, although no definite agreement
[00:01:41] has been reached. Is this tension an indication that the alliance between
[00:01:45] Europe and America, an alliance that has been a determining factor in geopolitics for more than
[00:01:49] a century, is facing an unprecedented threat?
[00:01:51] Next,
[00:01:54] in the program, we will see another investigative report about the widespread
[00:01:58] abuse of Interpol by Russia and other countries. Interpol
[00:02:02] is an organization that helps police forces around the world to exchange information
[00:02:05] and pursue international criminals. We have gained exclusive access
[00:02:09] to confidential documents that show Russia is using Interpol
[00:02:13] to suppress government critics abroad.
[00:02:17] We will also take a look at Bosnia and Herzegovina, a country scarred
[00:02:20] by a horrific war, but where peace has reigned for three
[00:02:24] decades now. We will see what lessons Europe can learn from this and
[00:02:28] examine the impact of past conflicts on a young generation that is
[00:02:32] ready to move beyond old divisions.
[00:02:33] Greenland
[00:02:36] is a land of maximums: maximum capital, maximum
[00:02:40] distance from the world's economic centers, and now maximum
[00:02:43] geopolitical importance. This
[00:02:46] ice-covered island is the largest island in the world, but
[00:02:49] has a very small population, less than 60,000
[00:02:52] people. The first inhabitants were Vikings in the Middle Ages,
[00:02:56] but they later disappeared. Then the Inuit
[00:03:00] came here from North America. This island became
[00:03:03] a Danish colony in the 18th century, but since
[00:03:07] 1979, it has been considered a semi-autonomous
[00:03:10] territory, while Copenhagen still
[00:03:13] controls Greenland's security, defense, and foreign policy.
[00:03:17] During World War II, Greenland became a strategic base
[00:03:20] for American military forces. During the Cold War,
[00:03:24] following the confrontation between the US and the Soviet Union, Greenland
[00:03:27] gained more importance in the Arctic. However, after
[00:03:30] the collapse of the Soviet Union, Greenland's importance declined,
[00:03:34] and the country's vast natural resources remained untouched
[00:03:38] beneath vast layers
[00:03:40] of ice. But now, Donald Trump has once again
[00:03:43] placed Greenland in the spotlight of global politics.
[00:03:47] We really need Greenland for our national security. If
[00:03:51] we don't have it, a huge gap will be created in our country's security.
[00:03:54] But why? What is so special about this Arctic island? With the melting
[00:03:58] of polar ice and the creation of new potential shipping routes,
[00:04:02] new economic opportunities have emerged in the Arctic region.
[00:04:05] This has also brought new military vulnerabilities.
[00:04:09] The United States, Russia, and increasingly China, are
[00:04:13] vying to exploit these emerging opportunities and prevent others' access,
[00:04:16] considering their options in the Arctic.
[00:04:20] As a result, Greenland, with its untouched
[00:04:23] mineral wealth, now more easily accessible, and its historical,
[00:04:27] economic, and military ties to the United States, has become
[00:04:31] an enticing target for Donald Trump. There are very large deposits of
[00:04:34] rare earth elements here. Usually, a larger share
[00:04:38] of the heavier types, which are more valuable and important.
[00:04:42] But the challenge of these reserves is their mineral composition.
[00:04:45] Of course, I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's clear that it
[00:04:48] requires more research. However, Donald Trump
[00:04:52] insists that his need for Greenland is not due to
[00:04:55] economic motives. There are a lot of
[00:04:58] rare elements here, but to access
[00:05:01] them, you have to go through several meters of ice.
[00:05:05] Of course, this is not the main reason for our need. We need it
[00:05:09] for national security and international security.
[00:05:21] This country must have control over its own backyard, or
[00:05:25] in other words, its sphere of influence.
[00:05:28] With this same viewpoint, the Trump
[00:05:31] administration launched military operations in Venezuela and threatened
[00:05:35] countries like Cuba, Mexico, and even Greenland,
[00:05:38] a region that is politically part of Europe but geographically
[00:05:42] located in North America. This new doctrine practically rejects
[00:05:46] the global order based on cooperation between countries
[00:05:49] that was formed after World War II, an order exemplified
[00:05:53] by the United Nations or NATO. This has truly worried
[00:05:57] America's traditional allies.
[00:06:00] It seems that every day we are reminded
[00:06:03] that we are living in an era of great power
[00:06:07] competition. The order based
[00:06:11] on
[00:06:21] So, is the EU-US alliance in trouble? Undoubtedly, this alliance
[00:06:25] is being tested more than ever before. Donald Trump's view
[00:06:28] of international relations differs from that of his predecessors
[00:06:32] over the past century. Although there is a powerful
[00:06:36] isolationist current within the Republican Party,
[00:06:39] many influential figures around Trump want to maintain
[00:06:43] a strong alliance with Europe. After the recent symbolic deployment
[00:06:47] of a small number of European forces to Greenland
[00:06:50] and reciprocal threats to impose heavy tariffs on trade between
[00:06:53] the US and Europe, an agreement is now being considered
[00:06:57] that aims to increase the US presence on the island.
[00:07:01] A great deal. Could Donald Trump's harsh rhetoric
[00:07:05] simply be his particular negotiating style?
[00:07:07] Nevertheless, this tension, following previous disputes over
[00:07:11] Ukraine, tariffs, NATO, and Russian expansionism,
[00:07:15] has dealt another blow to this alliance. Donald Trump will not be president
[00:07:19] forever. European leaders hope that the post-World War
[00:07:22] II order has not completely disappeared. But in this changing
[00:07:26] world, where great powers like the US, China,
[00:07:29] Russia, India, and others compete on the global
[00:07:33] stage, it is hard to imagine that relations between
[00:07:37] Europe and the US will return to their previous
[00:07:40] state.
[00:07:43] Now let's watch an exclusive report. For about 100 years, Interpol
[00:07:47] has been helping countries to pursue criminals around
[00:07:50] the world. The strength of this organization is information sharing and issuing
[00:07:54] alert notices that can lead to the arrest of individuals
[00:07:58] in different countries. But the BBC has gained access to a series of leaked
[00:08:01] files from within the organization that show autocratic regimes
[00:08:05] like Russia are widely abusing Interpol.
[00:08:08] With the continuation of the war in Ukraine, it is also claimed.
[00:08:43] Before that, I openly said that Putin
[00:08:45] is a criminal.
[00:08:50] But then gradually, I felt that they were increasing
[00:08:54] the pressure. Those were my last days in Russia,
[00:08:57] and I decided to
[00:09:00] leave.
[00:09:04] Yevgen Lavrenchuk, a prominent Ukrainian director, managed
[00:09:08] a theater group in Moscow until 2014.
[00:09:11] A few years after leaving
[00:09:14] Russia, his name was placed on Interpol's wanted list.
[00:09:17] At the end of 2021, he was arrested
[00:09:21] during a seemingly ordinary business
[00:09:24] trip. I had a flight
[00:09:28] from Tel Aviv to Lviv. We had a stop
[00:09:30] in Naples. During passport control,
[00:09:34] they stopped me and
[00:09:36] arrested me. Someone came
[00:09:39] who was the only one who spoke English.
[00:10:18] encouraged students to take out loans to help cover
[00:10:22] the costs of his theater's repairs. Russia claims.
[00:11:36] Distinguishing real cases from innocent individuals
[00:11:40] is difficult. Like Italy, Interpol also refused
[00:11:43] to comment on the nature of Eugene's criminal case.
[00:11:46] However, due to doubts about the political motivations
[00:11:50] behind the case, it cancelled Russia's request.
[00:11:54] Why did Interpol conclude that it could not trust
[00:11:57] Russia? Interpol is not a global police force; rather,
[00:12:01] it acts as an intermediary between police forces,
[00:12:04] similar to a large messaging system. A country
[00:12:08] can target individuals through Interpol in various ways.
[00:12:12] It can issue a red notice like in Eugene's case.
[00:12:15] This type of notice is sent directly to specific countries,
[00:12:19] asking them to identify the individual and
[00:12:23] in a way.
[00:12:26] It can also ask Interpol to issue a red notice,
[00:12:30] which warns all member countries to take similar action.
[00:12:33] Interpol has several protective mechanisms
[00:12:36] to prevent abuse. One of these mechanisms is the Commission
[00:12:39] for the Control of Interpol's Files (CCF). It is an independent
[00:12:43] body within Interpol that reviews complaints from individuals
[00:12:46] who have been subject to a notice to assess their legitimacy.
[00:12:50] However, critics warn that even with these
[00:12:54] mechanisms, some cases still pass through these filters,
[00:12:57] and some countries use Interpol to target journalists,
[00:13:01] activists, and business rivals. For years, Interpol
[00:13:05] has been accused of a lack of transparency and only publishing minimal
[00:13:08] information about red notices and diffusion notices.
[00:13:12] But now, for the first time, someone from within
[00:13:16] the organization has decided to provide evidence
[00:13:19] about how Interpol works and which countries are abusing
[00:13:23] its systems. I have been working
[00:13:27] for Interpol for quite some time. I cannot say
[00:13:30] they are transparent because they are really not. Everything
[00:13:33] is based on the need to know, which sometimes becomes
[00:13:37] truly strange because it's problematic in itself.
[00:13:41] For over a year, the BBC has collaborated with reporters from the French
[00:13:45] media outlet Disclose. This
[00:13:47] source provided us with these documents
[00:13:51] after observing the low level of transparency within the organization.
[00:13:55] They have some internal statistics and are aware of the overall
[00:13:59] situation. That's why they place certain countries
[00:14:03] under restrictions to prevent abuse. Interpol can
[00:14:06] impose corrective measures against countries and
[00:14:09] add additional scrutiny to its red notices and diffusions.
[00:14:13] This usually doesn't become public, but in March
[00:14:17] 2024, Interpol confirmed that due to the war
[00:14:20] in Ukraine, such restrictions had been imposed on Russia.
[00:14:24] I think they want.
[00:14:38] The source provided us with a list of complaints from individuals wanted by Interpol, individuals
[00:14:41] whose complaints had been reviewed by the CCF. In cases
[00:14:45] where the issuing country is known, Russia has the highest
[00:14:48] number of complaints related to its red notices and diffusions.
[00:14:52] This situation has persisted for the past 11
[00:14:55] years. Russia also tops the list of red notices
[00:14:59] and diffusions that have been cancelled. More than half of these cases
[00:15:02] are ultimately cancelled due to violations of Interpol's rules.
[00:15:06] The BBC managed
[00:15:10] to trace some of the individuals on this list, individuals
[00:15:14] who had been targeted by Russia's red notices and diffusions.
[00:15:18] Cases that were later found to violate Interpol's
[00:15:22] rules, including individuals.
[00:16:06] use of products.
[00:16:20] There was also an ethical issue; no one wanted
[00:16:23] to be involved, even indirectly, in producing something that
[00:16:26] kills people. Igor says his refusal
[00:16:29] of this request, and also having a Ukrainian
[00:16:33] wife, led to the nationalization of his companies and the initiation of an investigation
[00:16:37] against him on charges of crime.
[00:16:44] After Navalny, everyone realized it was better to flee,
[00:16:47] even if you were completely in the right and the law
[00:16:51] was on your side. Despite living in France, Igor was still concerned
[00:16:54] about being targeted. He contacted Interpol and was informed
[00:16:58] that Moscow had issued a red notice against him. This was
[00:17:02] despite the organization announcing after the invasion of Ukraine
[00:17:06] that it would apply stricter scrutiny to Russia's requests.
[00:17:10] He decided to challenge this notice through the CCF,
[00:17:13] arguing that there was a political motive behind it. Russia
[00:17:17] still has the right to be a member of Interpol,
[00:17:20] and by pressing a button, it can register anything
[00:17:24] and accuse you of a crime. This means they can pursue you and
[00:17:27] put more pressure on you worldwide. In the spring
[00:17:31] of 2024, after nearly two years on the wanted
[00:17:34] list, the CCF ruled that Igor's case
[00:17:38] was primarily political in nature. The body stated
[00:17:41] that the information provided by Russia was general and formulaic,
[00:17:45] and sufficient explanation for the alleged crime was not
[00:17:49] provided. Despite the cancellation of the notice, Igor says
[00:17:52] being on the wanted list has completely changed his life. When your name
[00:17:56] appears on a red notice, your life completely
[00:18:00] changes. You have two ways to go. You either go
[00:18:03] to the police and say: "I am in the Interpol system," then you will definitely
[00:18:07] be arrested and go to prison. Or you don't introduce yourself,
[00:18:11] but then you can't rent a house. Your bank account will also be completely
[00:18:15] closed. Everything will be locked. At any moment, they might stop you, ask for
[00:18:19] documents, and you end up in prison. It's better not to live
[00:18:23] with children or family because they might raid your
[00:18:27] house at any moment. That's why
[00:18:27] you feel trapped
[00:18:31] like a mouse. So, has Interpol realized
[00:18:35] it has a problem? The organization publicly states that
[00:18:39] the oversight and balancing mechanisms put in place over the years
[00:18:43] have resolved many problems. However, the BBC has obtained
[00:18:46] another set of documents, including confidential memos
[00:18:50] and emails between Interpol's internal enforcement bodies.
[00:18:54] These documents also include reports that show statistics
[00:18:57] on the number of Russian notices and diffusions that passed
[00:19:00] initial scrutiny in 2024. Despite the implementation
[00:19:04] of stricter vetting, Interpol initially approved
[00:19:07] about 90% of Russia's requests. However, reports show
[00:19:11] that when the CCF reviewed complaints related to Russia's
[00:19:14] requests, it still cancelled about half of them due
[00:19:18] to violations of the rules. The documents also state
[00:19:21] that Interpol has expressed serious concerns to Russia
[00:19:25] about its deliberate abuse of the organization's systems
[00:19:29] and has cited instances of clear rule violations.
[00:19:32] Therefore, after years of abuse by Russia
[00:19:35] and failure.
[00:20:07] I need to, they should be happy that they were never in my
[00:20:11] situation. They should be happy that they can go out freely
[00:20:14] without being suddenly arrested by Interpol
[00:20:17] for being wanted and thrown to the ground. So
[00:20:20] they shouldn't feel sorry for me, but those who
[00:20:24] find themselves in a situation like mine should learn
[00:20:27] from my experience.
[00:20:29] In response
[00:20:34] to our investigation, Interpol announced:
[00:21:22] We go to Bosnia and Herzegovina, a country once torn apart
[00:21:26] by war and ethnic conflicts, but unbelievably, peace
[00:21:30] has reigned there for about 30 years now. Grigor Atanassian
[00:21:33] from BBC Russian Service went to Bosnia to speak with a new generation
[00:21:37] determined to put past differences behind them.
[00:21:40] This
[00:21:48] road leads to Banja Luka, the administrative and political
[00:21:52] center of Republika Srpska, an autonomous
[00:21:54] Serb-populated region in Bosnia
[00:21:57] and Herzegovina. Every year, people gather
[00:22:01] here to celebrate Serb culture and history and commemorate
[00:22:05] their heroes.
[00:22:12] Among them, a familiar yet notorious figure
[00:22:16] is also seen.
[00:22:23] The Serb is now serving a life sentence for crimes against
[00:22:26] humanity during the Bosnian War in the early 1990s.
[00:22:29] This war was very violent and fragmented the region.
[00:22:33] Bosnian Serbs fought
[00:22:35] against Bosnian
[00:22:40] Muslims and Croats. More than 100,000
[00:22:43] people were killed and about 2 million others,
[00:22:46] nearly half of the population, were displaced.
[00:22:50] This war ended
[00:22:52] in 1995
[00:22:59] with a peace agreement brokered
[00:23:01] by the United States. The Republic of Bosnia,
[00:23:04] Croatia, and Serbia reached a peace
[00:23:08] agreement to end the Bosnian War, the end of the worst
[00:23:12] conflict in Europe since World
[00:23:15] War II. This agreement Bosnia.
[00:23:18] Muslims and Croats,
[00:23:28] and Republika Srpska, where Serbs reside.
[00:23:32] This peace agreement is still in force today.
[00:23:35] But many Bosnian Serbs and their political
[00:23:39] leaders are highly dissatisfied with it and speak
[00:23:42] of secession from Bosnia. Milorad Dodik
[00:23:45] is the most powerful politician in Republika
[00:23:49] Srpska and the leader of the ruling party.
[00:23:53] Bosnia and Herzegovina
[00:23:55] is a country that came into existence as a result
[00:23:59] of a political agreement.
[00:24:02] This agreement was imposed from the outside,
[00:24:06] mostly by the Clinton administration. It was not
[00:24:09] the will of the Serb people, but we were forced
[00:24:12] to accept it. Now one of the parties,
[00:24:15] namely Republika
[00:24:17] Srpska, wants to.
[00:24:59] It will exist even after that. This country is a unified
[00:25:01] country and will remain so. Nothing
[00:25:05] is divisible and will not be divided.
[00:25:08] Bosnia and Herzegovina is a stable and strong
[00:25:11] country. However, throughout the country, many
[00:25:15] young people live far from the prevailing ethnic divisions
[00:25:19] in Bosnian politics.
[00:25:21] I am very happy to be a Serb. I am proud
[00:25:25] of our history, but this does not mean I should hate
[00:25:29] other nations. Nina Regoje teaches
[00:25:32] Serbian folk dance in the town of Trnovo near
[00:25:36] Sarajevo. Here too, Bosniaks, Serbs,
[00:25:38] and Croats live together.
[00:25:42] Nina is a Serb, and her friend Eldin is a Bosnian Muslim.
[00:25:46] During the war, their fathers fought
[00:25:50] on opposing sides. I don't feel any difference
[00:25:53] between nations. I mean,
[00:25:56] there's no difference between
[00:26:00] ... I lost two of my uncles in the war,
[00:26:14] and it always reminds me of the cost
[00:26:18] of conflict. So many people and so many
[00:26:21] families were in pain and suffering. You have
[00:26:25] to kill the person who was your neighbor
[00:26:28] yesterday, or they kill you. For what? After 30
[00:26:32] years since the end of the Bosnian War, Bosnia is still
[00:26:35] at peace, and while politicians debate the future
[00:26:39] of the country, many young people firmly believe
[00:26:42] that past differences should not define the future. Republika
[00:26:46] Srpska is my homeland. Republika Srpska is within
[00:26:49] Bosnia, so Bosnia is also my homeland.
[00:26:53] That's it.
[00:26:56] Thank you for being with me
[00:27:03] in Greenland. Until the next episode of Globalala next week,
[00:27:07] goodbye.
[00:27:08] Jürgen Habermas
[00:30:23] Headlines: Attention is focused on the imminent
[00:30:26] announcement of an agreement between Iran and Oman for the reopening
[00:30:30] of the Strait of Hormuz, under the shadow of Trump's
[00:30:34] threats. Tehran says it will control the entry
[00:30:37] of many parts of the exit of vessels. This is designed
[00:30:41] in such a way that both on the entry
[00:30:44] route and in parts of the exit route,
[00:30:47] commercial ships will actually pass through
[00:30:51] Iran's territorial waters. I didn't think this
[00:30:54] country's society could continue.