BBCPERSIAN — broadcast
20260915 190000 UTC
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[00:00:02] Four years have passed since Mahsa Amini was killed in the custody of the
[00:00:05] morality police, and although the hijab law in Iran has not
[00:00:09] officially changed, these days some women appear with optional
[00:00:12] coverings in public places and even some official
[00:00:16] ceremonies. Has the Woman, Life, Freedom movement
[00:00:19] ended, or does that movement continue
[00:00:23] in other forms? Paria Manzarzadeh has taken a
[00:00:26] look at the transformation of women's status in these four years.
[00:00:36] Four years ago, this image of two women without mandatory hijab
[00:00:40] in a cafe in southern Tehran was a media
[00:00:43] bombshell. Dunia Rat was arrested for this
[00:00:46] photo.
[00:00:51] But other women also
[00:00:52] joined them.
[00:00:55] From familiar names in Iranian cinema to athletes and
[00:00:58] other women.
[00:01:24] The spark for this movement was the killing of Mahsa Zhina Amini in
[00:01:28] the custody of the morality police.
[00:01:32] The publication of images of Mahsa's family in the hospital and
[00:01:36] the widespread slogan of Woman, Life, Freedom just two days
[00:01:39] after Life, Freedom, and this became
[00:01:43] the starting point of protests that were evident from the beginning to be
[00:01:46] different from previous
[00:01:48] protests.
[00:01:52] From the dust of its
[00:01:53] streets
[00:01:56] , the mullah must leave.
[00:02:00] Many protesters took to the streets, but the intensity
[00:02:03] of the repression was such that some human rights organizations called
[00:02:07] it a crime against
[00:02:09] humanity.
[00:02:11] The funerals and fortieth-day ceremonies of the killed protesters
[00:02:15] became another starting point for renewed protest and
[00:02:19] again repression and violence. Seeking justice, families
[00:02:22] came forward. Mandalik Hayki Chawkarawe
[00:02:24] and Hoshiarn, D Zanian دریاییکی خوشتر و
[00:02:28] باشتریش هەیە.
[00:02:40] and windows were opened to the world of teenagers and young people.
[00:02:53] Names that became
[00:02:54] hashtags.
[00:02:58] and the support of different sections of society for the protesters. We cannot
[00:03:02] and should not sit quietly
[00:03:05] and silently, and every day witness
[00:03:09] another Armita, another Mahsa, and
[00:03:12] another dear child sacrificed for
[00:03:16] not wearing
[00:03:17] a headscarf.
[00:03:21] The support of the Sunni Imam of Zahedan, along with the people
[00:03:25] of that city, who created a bloody Friday, brought women's
[00:03:29] demands to the football field. In many major
[00:03:32] cities outside the country, every week, gatherings were held in support
[00:03:36] of the protesters in Iran.
[00:03:39] A wave started on Instagram and Twitter where some women said
[00:03:42] that from tomorrow they would walk in the streets without headscarves and scarves, and they asked
[00:03:46] men to please be supportive and not
[00:03:50] stare. Really, now that after 4 years I see that women
[00:03:54] appear in most places with the clothing they want, I am more
[00:03:57] sure that rights are to be taken.
[00:04:00] And certainly, every right has a cost, which the women of this period of Iranian
[00:04:03] history were able to overcome.
[00:04:07] How beautiful. Really, seeing
[00:04:10] your beautiful hair not only does not provoke us, but it also gives
[00:04:14] us a very good feeling. We hope
[00:04:17] for days when we get used to seeing these
[00:04:20] scenes.
[00:04:23] In these four years, the Iranian government has tried in various ways to deal
[00:04:27] with women who appear without headscarves in public places.
[00:04:36] From morality patrols in the streets to impounding private
[00:04:39] cars, cash fines, threats of
[00:04:43] deprivation of administrative services, blocking SIM cards, and
[00:04:46] closing social media accounts. Well, the events that
[00:04:50] happened, and we were also parents from the 560s generation, and the closed
[00:04:54] and closed society regarding hijab
[00:04:57] and the silly reasons they gave and put us
[00:05:01] under a lot of pressure, caused us to stand behind
[00:05:05] our children when this movement happened, even though many of
[00:05:08] us perhaps did not believe in being unveiled. Four
[00:05:11] years after Mahsa's movement, the face of cities, especially
[00:05:15] large cities, has
[00:05:16] changed.
[00:05:23] That young friend has come.
[00:05:26] has come. Your
[00:05:30] white face, your black hair.
[00:05:33] You see, certainly Mahsa's movement was important, but not
[00:05:37] everything should be attributed to this movement. Regarding hijab,
[00:05:41] a part of the government also disagreed with the morality police
[00:05:44] and bothering people about their clothing. This issue is also seen among Iranian military forces,
[00:05:48] who are mostly young themselves and had no
[00:05:52] desire to bother women about their clothing. That is,
[00:05:55] it was not merely the people's demand, because if it was only the people's demand,
[00:05:59] inflation would not have occurred or the government would have
[00:06:01] collapsed. Since Mahsa's uprising, it seems
[00:06:05] that the hijab situation has improved, but no law has been passed
[00:06:09] for optional hijab. As a woman, I am still obliged
[00:06:12] to wear a headscarf and even a chador in government offices, or my photo
[00:06:16] on my national ID card, passport, and driver's license must
[00:06:20] be with hijab. When verifying my identity for a banking app, I even have
[00:06:23] to wear a hijab at home, and many other things. Since Mahsa
[00:06:27] Amini's killing, Iran has experienced two wars and witnessed
[00:06:30] the killing of protesters in January 2023.
[00:06:34] In the shadow of restrictions and pressures resulting from social,
[00:06:38] political, and economic crises, Iranian women
[00:06:41] continue to pursue their demands, and of course, inequalities
[00:06:44] between women and men still
[00:06:47] persist. Legally too, there are many challenges
[00:06:51] and obstacles for women. From divorce laws,
[00:06:54] custody, inheritance to permission to leave the country
[00:06:58] and the right to ride a motorcycle.
[00:07:02] I believe that our
[00:07:05] approach has no choice but to
[00:07:08] change. Well, the government is resisting
[00:07:12] as much as it can. Well, the people
[00:07:15] are also resisting because the
[00:07:18] continuation of these laws, these
[00:07:21] policies, means much larger than
[00:07:24] laws, policies, programs,
[00:07:27] approaches, and attitudes
[00:07:30] that the Islamic Republic
[00:07:33] has in various fields, including
[00:07:36] women's issues, no longer
[00:07:39] work.
[00:07:41] I asked Hanne Naim, a Member of the European Parliament from Germany,
[00:07:45] as someone who has followed the Iranian women's movement for years,
[00:07:49] how she assesses their current
[00:07:52] situation.
[00:07:57] The Woman, Life, Freedom movement in Iran,
[00:08:00] which started four years ago, four years ago with
[00:08:03] the death of Mahsa Amini, transformed Iran
[00:08:07] because women and men and the entire
[00:08:11] society stood against a repressive
[00:08:14] government. This movement also changed the world's view of
[00:08:17] Iran. Now the whole world knows how repressive
[00:08:21] this government is. Despite all this, the Iranian
[00:08:24] government is still in power, and the information
[00:08:27] we get from inside Iran is that despite
[00:08:31] the government's efforts for censorship and cutting
[00:08:34] the internet, we see that repression has also
[00:08:38] increased. We see many people
[00:08:41] who went to the streets, not only in the
[00:08:44] Woman, Life, Freedom movement, but even in the January protests, they were
[00:08:48] imprisoned, some of them were executed.
[00:08:51] Now we see strict laws enacted against
[00:08:54] women. We see that accusations of espionage
[00:08:57] and other pretexts for repression through
[00:09:00] the government have made the rulers
[00:09:04] more hardened. But young people, women,
[00:09:08] are powerfully resisting this government, and the government
[00:09:12] is using violence against them. What we saw in
[00:09:15] the January protests was the tip of the iceberg. But in any case,
[00:09:18] the protests continue. And in any case,
[00:09:21] everyone outside the country talks about this issue and tries to
[00:09:25] shed light on this dictatorship and help
[00:09:28] the efforts of Iranian women and men for
[00:09:32] freedom.
[00:09:35] I also asked Ms. Naim to explain how, in a situation
[00:09:39] where diplomatic relations are at their lowest level, she intends to
[00:09:42] pursue cases of repression in Iran.
[00:09:44] The Iranian
[00:09:49] regime wants to commit massacres in
[00:09:52] the dark, it wants to suppress in the dark,
[00:09:56] and it wants the world to look the other way. They clearly
[00:09:59] demonstrated this in the worst way in the January protests,
[00:10:03] when thousands of their own people were killed and the internet
[00:10:06] was shut down so they could control the existing
[00:10:10] narratives. That's why it's important that we can support
[00:10:14] those who are not against the government, those who want to shed
[00:10:18] light on the regime's dictatorship. We must talk
[00:10:21] about the regime's repressions. Let the
[00:10:25] images and documents come out. We in the European
[00:10:29] Union, in the European Parliament, must talk about this issue.
[00:10:32] We have seen in the past that when some cases
[00:10:35] are raised at a high
[00:10:39] level, and these cases are set in motion, sometimes
[00:10:42] it will cause the Iranian government to show
[00:10:45] some tolerance in executions and repressions. This itself can
[00:10:49] provide more protection for those who fight against this government.
[00:10:52] It is important that we continue this work.
[00:10:55] As I said, we should not limit ourselves to these
[00:10:58] actions. We also need to adopt some political measures, including
[00:11:02] imposing severe sanctions to ensure that
[00:11:06] members of this regime cannot engage in
[00:11:09] transnational repressions. And also
[00:11:13] give asylum visas to those who fight
[00:11:16] against this government. Therefore, all measures must go
[00:11:19] hand in hand.
[00:11:23] That was Hanne Naim, the German representative in the European Parliament.
[00:11:27] But in Iran, according to reports, buying a normal
[00:11:30] set of stationery for each student in
[00:11:34] Iran costs up to 15 million
[00:11:37] Tomans. The head of the stationery union said that most
[00:11:40] writing supplies have increased in price by about
[00:11:44] 50%. Poverty and inequality have prevented
[00:11:47] many students from continuing their education. Fari Nasmi has more
[00:11:51] details.
[00:11:55] This September, for many, doesn't smell like school. Economic
[00:11:58] difficulties have caused some students to either drop
[00:12:02] out of school or attend school with difficulty and concern
[00:12:05] due to the high costs of stationery. This
[00:12:09] September, for many, smells of poverty.
[00:12:12] This year, the stationery market is not very
[00:12:16] booming. News agencies have estimated the increase
[00:12:19] in stationery prices to be several times higher than last
[00:12:23] year. This compares the cost of a stationery
[00:12:26] shopping basket in September 2024 with
[00:12:30] September 2025. A regular backpack in
[00:12:34] September 2024 was 1.2 million Tomans. This
[00:12:37] year it's 3.8 million Tomans. A medium-sized
[00:12:41] pencil case was 300,000 Tomans last year, this year 500,000
[00:12:44] Tomans. 8 100-page notebooks, which were 280,000
[00:12:47] Tomans last year, are sold for 3.2 million
[00:12:51] Tomans this year. 6 notebooks of 60 and 80 pages last
[00:12:59] year. A set of erasers, sharpeners, and rulers was 150,000
[00:13:03] Tomans last year, this year 600,000 Tomans. A set of
[00:13:07] colored pencils and painting tools also increased from 300,000
[00:13:10] Tomans last year to 700,000 Tomans this
[00:13:13] year. Some media estimate the cost of stationery,
[00:13:17] shoes, and clothes to be around 15 to 17 million
[00:13:21] Tomans. For some families who have
[00:13:25] enrolled their children in private schools,
[00:13:28] tuition fees are also added. The tuition fees of some
[00:13:31] of these private schools are between 150 and 170
[00:13:35] million Tomans. The cost of non-profit schools is several
[00:13:38] times this. Most stationery products have increased
[00:13:42] by 50%, but depending on the
[00:13:45] type of goods and their dependence on some raw
[00:13:49] materials that have become expensive, this is higher. Between 50 and
[00:13:52] 100, I can tell you. and the biggest price
[00:13:55] increase we've seen is in cellulose products like
[00:13:59] notebooks and paper, which had at least a 100%
[00:14:02] increase. There are a number of businesses that, because they are overcharging,
[00:14:05] don't provide receipts. The government has promised to control
[00:14:09] prices. A normal pen was 130,000 Tomans in one place,
[00:14:13] and 50,000 Tomans in another. Why should there be an 80,000
[00:14:16] Toman overcharge? Meanwhile, stationery sellers also say
[00:14:20] that the increase in raw material prices and the rise in goods
[00:14:24] prices have put them in a difficult situation. On this side,
[00:14:27] the price of goods has gone up so much that some
[00:14:31] goods cannot be sold to customers. I mean, you really can't say
[00:14:34] this item is this price. But families
[00:14:38] bear the brunt of the pressure. I am a
[00:14:41] mother who went to buy stationery for my
[00:14:44] children. I have two school-aged children. Look,
[00:14:48] I bought stationery for my child. This is all it is. The stationery
[00:14:52] I bought for her cost four.
[00:15:01] What are you doing? I bought this for the officials. What are you doing that we have
[00:15:04] to buy this amount of stationery at this price for our
[00:15:08] children? And many are forced to drop out of
[00:15:11] school. Last year, about one million Iranian students dropped
[00:15:15] out of school. Many of them were forced to work at young
[00:15:18] ages. As prices increase, more students
[00:15:22] face problems in continuing their education. The
[00:15:28] challenge of education in Iran becomes more widespread and deeper. Farin Hasemi, BBC.
[00:15:32] سی.
[00:15:35] Tahsin Mustafa, teachers.
[00:15:43] Welcome, Mr. Mustafa. You
[00:15:45] were a teacher, an educator.
[00:15:49] Do you have any personal experience of a student
[00:15:52] being forced to drop out of school due to
[00:15:56] poverty? Greetings
[00:15:58] and respect to you and your dear viewers. Yes,
[00:16:02] in the forefront of educational
[00:16:05] work, we have repeatedly encountered cases, for example, female
[00:16:09] students for whom uniforms were mandatory, but families
[00:16:13] were unable to buy those
[00:16:16] uniforms, and these students dropped out. The news reached the school,
[00:16:20] and school officials, teachers, and
[00:16:23] benevolent individuals provided clothes for those students. But many
[00:16:27] times these
[00:16:29] things remained hidden, and no one could help. We
[00:16:33] later found out about numerous cases where students were
[00:16:37] unable to attend school due to being unable to pay
[00:16:41] tuition or buy clothes or school bags or school
[00:16:44] mantos. And such
[00:16:47] cases, we have seen them in past years, not that
[00:16:51] inflation has been so runaway. In the 80s
[00:16:55] and 70s, we frequently witnessed this.
[00:16:58] Well, we know that, after all, high prices and poverty
[00:17:02] also affect the quality of education.
[00:17:06] What effects have you witnessed that this issue has had on
[00:17:09] the process of children's
[00:17:11] education?
[00:17:14] In education, we have a discussion where we say learning is a need, a
[00:17:17] self-motivated need. And before self-motivated needs, according to Maslow's
[00:17:20] hierarchy, we have a series of drives, which are innate needs. Until those
[00:17:24] innate needs are met, a person cannot reach
[00:17:27] self-motivated needs, and the prerequisite for learning is proper
[00:17:31] nutrition. In our school, the problem
[00:17:34] we always faced, and in recent years it has turned into a
[00:17:37] disaster, is the disaster of student malnutrition.
[00:17:41] We rarely had a day
[00:17:44] when we didn't see a student fainting in the school
[00:17:47] line, and the reason for all these fainting
[00:17:51] spells and unconsciousness of students
[00:17:55] was not eating breakfast and improper nutrition.
[00:17:58] We always discussed in education
[00:18:01] that proper learning requires a
[00:18:04] specific amount of calories, and this amount
[00:18:31] many people in society, the poor class of society, did not
[00:18:35] have the basic facilities to be able to use
[00:18:38] education as a miracle worker and break that cycle of poverty.
[00:18:42] They couldn't enter the middle and upper levels and
[00:18:46] managerial positions of society to be able to change the
[00:18:49] situation of society. In fact, for several
[00:18:53] past decades, we must look at the history of education.
[00:18:57] In several past decades, we have witnessed
[00:19:00] this cycle of educational inequality, and unfortunately,
[00:19:04] today, in wartime conditions and in circumstances
[00:19:37] children experience this for this reason, which does not cause them to
[00:19:41] become disinterested in continuing their education and
[00:19:44] education actually becomes less important
[00:19:47] and children look for ways to
[00:19:50] earn more income
[00:19:53] rather than pursuing education.
[00:19:56] Look,
[00:19:58] a student's dream doesn't reach a point where they think about earning money.
[00:20:02] The most important place where a student learns at school
[00:20:06] is among their friends and the noise when the
[00:20:09] teacher is quiet and students are talking to each other. Most learning happens
[00:20:13] in those noises, in those gatherings of students in the corner
[00:20:17] of the school
[00:20:18] yard.
[00:20:21] No, we must not forget that
[00:20:24] the students' conversations were about long-term goals
[00:20:28] and thinking about future careers and earning money. Today,
[00:20:31] it has given way to talking about and discussing
[00:20:35] hunger. And in a student's dream of
[00:20:38] becoming a pilot, of becoming a teacher, a doctor,
[00:20:41] it has given way to a student wishing and dreaming
[00:20:45] of a proper meal, a proper meal. We have seen this
[00:20:49] in past years in many schools. I personally witnessed
[00:20:52] a student directly looking at me and saying, "Mr.
[00:20:56] So-and-so, we are in a situation where we
[00:20:59] hear our stomachs rumbling. We can't listen to your lesson. Let us go get
[00:21:03] a sangak (bread)." I personally witnessed this many times, and
[00:21:07] now I cannot forget that
[00:21:10] a student stood in the corner of the yard, waiting for her
[00:21:13] brother and sister, whose school shifts had ended, to take their
[00:21:17] pens and paper so she could come to school. That is, the home
[00:21:20] was unable to provide the minimum facilities for students.
[00:21:24] Now that inflation has reached this level, and in Iran
[00:21:28] we are witnessing a very strange phenomenon, which we should not
[00:21:31] ignore its impact on learning. In today's society,
[00:21:35] we are not witnessing absolute poverty; we are witnessing severe
[00:21:38] poverty. Thank you very much, Mr. Mustafa. Thank you very much for
[00:21:42] your presence. Tahsin Mustafa, expelled teacher and former member of the board of directors
[00:21:46] of professional associations.
[00:21:50] The US, UK, and Netherlands in a joint cybersecurity
[00:21:54] alert released details of spyware that, according
[00:21:57] to them, Iranian government-affiliated actors use to target
[00:22:01] dissidents, activists, and journalists.
[00:22:04] The UK's National Cyber Security Centre announced
[00:22:08] that cyber actors affiliated with the Iranian government
[00:22:12] use a family of spyware
[00:22:15] known as Chosen Brick to steal emails,
[00:22:18] messages, and other sensitive information on messaging
[00:22:22] platforms such as WhatsApp and
[00:22:25] Telegram. Amir Rashidi, an internet access
[00:22:29] researcher from Turin, Italy, is with us. Welcome,
[00:22:32] Mr. Rashidi.
[00:22:35] How new is this method that Iran has used
[00:22:38] for, in fact, a type of espionage against citizens outside
[00:22:42] Iran, and how widespread is it?
[00:22:46] Look, some of the technical details that have
[00:22:50] been used can be said to be new,
[00:22:53] but overall, we still can't say this is
[00:22:57] , for example, an incredibly sophisticated cyber attack
[00:23:00] with strange and unusual tools. They are still proceeding
[00:23:04] with the same old systems, but for example, in terms
[00:23:08] of collecting information from their victims, what devices
[00:23:11] they use, where they are, what they do,
[00:23:15] what platforms they are on, of course, it has been strengthened.
[00:23:18] The fact that they use some messengers like, for example, Telegram,
[00:23:22] to be able to communicate with the victim's device
[00:23:25] after it's infected. Apart from it being mentioned
[00:23:29] in this report, I have also seen examples myself
[00:23:32] recently where such methods have been used.
[00:23:36] In summary, I want to tell you that over the past
[00:23:39] six months, we have witnessed
[00:23:42] a very widespread wave of attacks
[00:23:46] that we categorize as cross-border repression
[00:23:49] or, in fact, these attacks are cyber
[00:23:53] attacks that use artificial intelligence to fake people's
[00:23:56] voices, try to gain trust, or fake
[00:24:00] the voices of two people who are communicating and send
[00:24:04] it to a third person to create conflict and disputes between
[00:24:08] individuals and groups. There have even been cases where individuals
[00:24:12] were tracked at their workplaces or places they were. In fact,
[00:24:16] we can say that in the past six months, the level
[00:24:20] of aggression or the number of
[00:24:23] attacks they are carrying out, especially targeting people
[00:24:27] outside Iran, can actually be said to have been unprecedented
[00:24:31] in the past few years, this widespread
[00:24:35] volume of attacks. How much
[00:24:37] artificial intelligence might be used in these
[00:24:41] operations? For example, in this report, it was mentioned
[00:24:44] that people's voices were reconstructed.
[00:24:48] For example, two friends were talking, their voices
[00:24:51] were reconstructed and broadcast to
[00:24:55] the foreign recipient. How concerned should
[00:24:59] we be about artificial intelligence
[00:25:00] in this area? The reports that the
[00:25:04] developer of Cloud also published in recent days are basically
[00:25:08] telling us the same thing. They are saying that artificial intelligence is
[00:25:12] being used. Artificial intelligence has not necessarily increased
[00:25:16] the cyber capabilities of the Islamic Republic. That is, for example,
[00:25:20] if we want to compare it with the cyber capabilities of the US
[00:25:23] or Israel or, say, England, it hasn't been
[00:25:27] able to reach that level. But what it has been able to do
[00:25:30] is to reduce the resources needed to design
[00:25:34] and implement their attacks. It has increased
[00:25:38] their speed. In fact, in these two areas, it has been
[00:25:41] able to provide a lot of help to the actors
[00:25:45] of the Islamic Republic
[00:25:48] to be able to carry out more attacks faster.
[00:25:52] But all this, excuse me, I wanted to ask
[00:25:56] you another question. We have little time, and there are many
[00:25:59] questions. If you could tell us very briefly how people can protect
[00:26:03] themselves from these attacks, what should
[00:26:06] they do? Very briefly, if you can tell me very quickly,
[00:26:09] I'll tell you. People should absolutely never
[00:26:13] rush to send messages. In Farsi, we say, "I trust someone like
[00:26:16] my eyes." Don't trust your eyes. If you receive a message
[00:26:20] from anyone, they give you a link, they give you a file, especially
[00:26:24] if they keep saying, "Hurry up, hurry up, open it," don't
[00:26:28] rush at all. Check it with several different places.
[00:26:31] If you have doubts,
[00:26:36] absolutely do not rush. If you do these few simple
[00:26:39] things, you can be sure that you can protect
[00:26:43] yourself from a large part of these attacks. Thank
[00:26:46] you, Amir Rashidi,
[00:26:49] internet researcher.
[00:26:53] Thank you for watching this 60-minute program
[00:26:57] until the end. You can also watch our program on YouTube and BBC
[00:27:01] podcast.
[00:28:28] I'm almost less than one and a
[00:28:30] half. I'm really not sure whether
[00:28:34] where we are standing is in Iranian Kurdistan or in Iraqi
[00:28:38] Kurdistan. We try to cover live everything
[00:28:41] that happens here for
[00:28:43] you.
[00:28:46] Tell us what we know, what are the new details?
[00:28:50] They moved the meeting an hour forward and quickly left
[00:28:54] here. They are at the
[00:28:57] Turkish border. They are not tourists, but they are not
[00:29:01] refugees either. Here, they were subjected
[00:29:04] to an air attack by Israeli
[00:29:07] forces. The images that reach us are very
[00:29:11] few due to internet
[00:29:12] outage.
[00:29:15] Minute-by-minute coverage of news on television,
[00:29:18] social networks, and the BBC Persian
[00:29:21] website. They stopped me in front
[00:29:25] of my house, in the alley. They basically said, "Ms. Alilousi?"
[00:29:29] I said, "Yes." They said, "Revolutionary Court." I rolled up the window.
[00:29:32] They locked the door. He went crazy, got
[00:29:35] a hammer and opened the door. I firmly tell
[00:29:39] you that I will not play with hijab under any circumstances.
[00:29:43] We still exist. Being banned from working in the Ministry
[00:29:46] of Islamic Guidance for me means
[00:29:50] absolutely no deletion.
[00:30:22] Headlines.
[00:30:25] Bin Salman's visit to Cairo in an attempt to counter the Yemeni
[00:30:29] Houthis. The Egyptian President emphasizes free shipping.