BBCPERSIAN — broadcast
20261010 093000 UTC
474 transcript segments
Google Cloud Speech-to-Text API (Chirp) + Gemini 2.5 Flash Non-Thinking
Data courtesy of The GDELT Project (https://www.gdeltproject.org/), from the Internet Archive TV News Archive.
Machine transcription. Treat it as a searchable index of what was broadcast, not a verbatim quotation record.

[00:00:03] And now on BBC Persian TV, the daily
[00:00:07] issues
[00:00:09] of the #MeToo movement, which started in Iran following
[00:00:13] the global #MeToo movement, what results has it had
[00:00:16] and to what extent has it been able to be the voice of survivors of violence
[00:00:19] and sexual assault? What are its challenges?
[00:00:23] Hello.
[00:00:51] Ambra, at 18, after participating in the Miss Italy beauty pageant, was invited
[00:00:54] to a party at the home of Silvio Berlusconi, the then
[00:00:58] Prime Minister. When she saw underage
[00:01:02] girls present as sex workers at this party,
[00:01:06] she left the venue and informed the Italian
[00:01:10] prosecutor's office.
[00:01:12] After that, the media under Berlusconi's control defamed
[00:01:16] her, and she was forced to leave
[00:01:19] the country and even changed her last name. A few
[00:01:23] years later, when she went to the office of Harvey Weinstein, the famous
[00:01:26] producer, for a job offer.
[00:01:35] She went back the next day with a wiretap to Weinstein's
[00:01:39] meeting place to gather legal documentation
[00:01:43] for her claim, but despite audio evidence,
[00:01:46] she could not prove the accusation.
[00:01:49] After that, a number of American publications published negative articles about
[00:01:53] her, so much so that she could no longer receive job
[00:01:56] offers, and eventually signed a non-disclosure
[00:02:00] agreement with Weinstein. After
[00:02:04] that, Weinstein announced that this girl had extorted him
[00:02:07] for a role in a film.
[00:02:10] But shortly after, when Weinstein's sexually violent behavior
[00:02:14] was exposed by other survivors and led to his conviction,
[00:02:18] it became clear that Ambra Gutierrez had not lied.
[00:02:21] This is an example of the cost
[00:02:25] that has been paid by women
[00:02:28] in the #MeToo movement. This
[00:02:32] storytelling by women about violence and sexual assault
[00:02:35] and rape has also grown in Iran in recent
[00:02:38] years. What consequences has the #MeToo
[00:02:41] movement left in Iranian society, and what are the challenges
[00:02:45] ahead for it? Ladan Hashemi, Professor
[00:02:49] of Gender Studies at City, University of London, and
[00:02:53] Sanaz Azimipour, Gender Studies
[00:02:56] researcher at Humboldt University.
[00:03:02] Welcome. Let's start with you,
[00:03:06] Ladan. What is your assessment
[00:03:08] of the #MeToo movement in Iran? Has it had the impact it should have? In
[00:03:12] my opinion, it has had good achievements
[00:03:16] that can be discussed.
[00:03:20] These include, for example, the issue of sexual assault
[00:03:23] or sexual harassment, which now have various
[00:03:27] types. Usually,
[00:03:31] from statistics, we knew that this was common, but both in Iran
[00:03:34] and globally,
[00:03:38] the #MeToo movement brought this to the level of public
[00:03:42] discourse, and in fact, it was as if a light
[00:03:45] was shone on it, and because a large number of women came
[00:03:49] out and said #MeToo, I also had such an experience,
[00:03:52] it broke the taboo. It came out of that stigma
[00:03:56] and from something that was previously considered a private
[00:04:00] matter, and now it happened to you, or for example, the victims might
[00:04:04] have only confided in their close friends or with
[00:04:07] those they were very close to and trusted, this
[00:04:11] suffering they were enduring from this trauma they had experienced,
[00:04:14] and now it was brought to the public level and public discussions
[00:04:18] at a macro level in society were taking place. As a result, it shifted
[00:04:22] from "my personal problem" to "our problem,"
[00:04:25] a public problem, which is correct, because violence,
[00:04:28] since most victims are women, I refer to this
[00:04:31] that gender-based
[00:04:35] violence, where someone is subjected to violence because of their gender,
[00:04:38] is not a personal issue. It's an issue that society must confront.
[00:04:42] It's an issue that society also plays a role in its occurrence.
[00:04:46] As a result, this came to the level of public discourse, and this
[00:04:48] taboo was broken, and among other points,
[00:04:52] it showed the diversity of perpetrators
[00:04:56] and that at all levels of society,
[00:05:00] we saw, for example, even in our Iranian #MeToo society,
[00:05:03] for example, diversity in terms of which part of society these
[00:05:06] perpetrators come from. We have highly educated people
[00:05:09] to, for example, less educated people,
[00:05:13] people who are considered, so to speak, very high-profile or celebrities in
[00:05:16] society, to university professors, to sociologists.
[00:05:19] This showed that no one
[00:05:23] is immune from experiencing such a thing.
[00:05:26] Any woman at any level can experience it, and from anyone at
[00:05:30] any level. Yes, and any man can also be
[00:05:33] a perpetrator of sexual harassment.
[00:05:37] As a result, in recent years,
[00:05:40] within Iranian society—when I say Iranian society, I mean both inside Iran and abroad—
[00:05:44] most cases are celebrities
[00:05:48] who have made headlines. Does this not cause
[00:05:51] a significant portion of these harassments that occur at other
[00:05:55] levels, in other environments, workplaces,
[00:05:59] schools, to remain largely in the shadows?
[00:06:03] Well, this is one of the challenges of the #MeToo movement, and it's not exclusive to Iran.
[00:06:06] Very much so, the person who founded
[00:06:10] the #MeToo movement was asked in one of her interviews if she was
[00:06:14] upset that celebrities jumped on this wave and, in a way, if you mean
[00:06:16] Tarana,
[00:06:19] she was asked and said that well, this is a movement,
[00:06:23] and these celebrities create moments,
[00:06:27] and because they are more visible,
[00:06:30] they bring this into public discussion. So there are
[00:06:34] good aspects to it, that people who are now
[00:06:38] well-known, have many followers, have been seen on television,
[00:06:41] or because of their art or whatever they are famous
[00:06:45] for in society, they cause this
[00:06:48] level of abuse to be seen, and even the woman who doesn't
[00:06:52] have this platform and perhaps doesn't have this
[00:06:56] glamorous, spotlight, public life, she also sees
[00:06:59] that another woman has had a similar experience
[00:07:02] to hers, the experience she had, she also had, she is also encouraged
[00:07:06] to, for example, but Tarana Burke
[00:07:09] went and worked with Black women
[00:07:13] and said that among them
[00:07:16] I can better raise awareness.
[00:07:19] But when you look at American society, the cases
[00:07:23] that make a lot of noise are cases of actresses,
[00:07:27] cases of Hollywood producers. So,
[00:07:30] underneath, still, not much noise is made,
[00:07:34] especially on social media. It's true, we have the same discussion in Iran. Those
[00:07:37] cases that make noise are mostly those who are visible.
[00:07:41] Like
[00:08:00] I am not alone, meaning this widespread nature of abuse and harassment is seen. But then, this criticism is also valid,
[00:08:04] well, what about those who have no voice, no platform?
[00:08:07] What happens to them? And if they speak, how much will they be heard?
[00:08:11] How much will what is said be echoed? I mean, the anonymous one,
[00:08:14] the anonymous one, how much will their voice be #MeToo-ed? Yes.
[00:08:18] What other significant consequences has it had, besides this awareness-raising
[00:08:22] and turning the discussion of sexual
[00:08:25] violence into a public discussion?
[00:08:29] Another point that was seen in the #MeToo movement in Iran is the deficiency
[00:08:32] in the law and the deficiency in our education system. For example, in
[00:08:36] a country like England, we now have here that these are, for example, very diverse
[00:08:40] topics that are taught, but it can cover things,
[00:08:44] including, for example, the issue of informed consent,
[00:08:47] what it even means, where its boundaries are, and
[00:08:51] how not to say it. And
[00:08:53] boys and girls are also taught, and also, for example,
[00:08:57] that my body is my own, and how
[00:09:01] to identify abuse, how to react,
[00:09:05] who to talk to, where to get
[00:09:08] support, what a healthy relationship means, what an unhealthy
[00:09:11] relationship means, and how to recognize the signs of coercion
[00:09:15] or pressure and compulsion. These are very important topics,
[00:09:19] and yes, yes, this, and well, because the education system in Iran
[00:09:22] doesn't do its job properly, these trainings are not given, this #MeToo
[00:09:26] caused these to come to the level of public discourse, and
[00:09:30] that this is not seen in the Iranian education system,
[00:09:33] this deficiency became prominent, and in fact, the responsibility has apparently been shifted
[00:09:37] to families, that you know that it's no longer in school,
[00:09:41] at least try to do this on social media, or whoever
[00:09:44] can provide this education in any way they can. Another one was the deficiency in the judicial
[00:09:48] system and in the law in Iran, which has also been discussed
[00:09:52] a lot, and perhaps before this #MeToo movement, perhaps many
[00:09:55] people, including myself, may not have known the details of this, what big
[00:09:59] deficiencies there are in the definition of harassment and in recognizing
[00:10:02] and criminalizing it.
[00:10:05] Investigation. Yes, we have an audio from
[00:10:09] Malika Parsadoust, who in every
[00:10:13] hearing that was formed against Pejman
[00:10:16] Jamshidi, a famous figure in Iran,
[00:10:20] it went to the stages of judicial
[00:10:23] proceedings, and one of the points that Malika Parsadoust
[00:10:27] makes is the loneliness of the woman during the
[00:10:30] trial against the person accused,
[00:10:33] and where this woman's narrative is heard,
[00:10:37] under what circumstances? Let's listen to this, because
[00:10:41] this itself is an important
[00:10:44] point. It's very important to say that my mother was
[00:10:47] not allowed to enter the court. Not even my mother,
[00:10:51] not a single woman, except for the lady who was writing the minutes
[00:10:55] and sitting next to the judge. There was
[00:10:57] no woman there for me to hold her hand.
[00:11:00] And
[00:11:04] what questions were asked of that person? Very brief questions, or in response
[00:11:07] to what the plaintiff
[00:11:11] is saying now, what defense do you have for yourselves? And we were
[00:11:15] met with a lot of oaths, only oaths,
[00:11:18] which, according to Malika Parsadoust, are in an environment where a woman
[00:11:21] faces a man who is the judge,
[00:11:25] and those who investigate are also men.
[00:11:29] She has to give them. But
[00:11:32] you yourself referred to social networks. What impact
[00:11:36] has the social networking of the #MeToo
[00:11:40] movement had? Because this
[00:11:43] very case that was discussed, Malika Parsadoust, virtually
[00:11:47] the vast majority
[00:11:51] of the reactions, the information gathered, all of these were
[00:11:55] on social media that emerged.
[00:11:57] The session that was held
[00:12:01] and in which Malika spoke was formed
[00:12:04] by women activists
[00:12:08] and was publicized. The feedback was mostly
[00:12:11] from social media. What effects does
[00:12:14] this leave? Well, social media now, in such an
[00:12:17] environment where women don't have an official platform, even though newspapers
[00:12:21] in recent years, thanks to the #MeToo movement,
[00:12:25] media inside Iran were forced to cover it, in addition to media outside Iran. But
[00:12:28] still, women's voices are much
[00:12:32] less heard. This social media
[00:12:36] or mass media has now provided an opportunity,
[00:12:40] in fact, it is a tool that can give a platform
[00:12:43] to marginalized voices that have been pushed to the margins
[00:12:47] to be heard. So it's both inevitable and useful. Do you
[00:12:51] think that on social media, such a widespread?
[00:13:18] What are the challenges of the #MeToo movement, especially within
[00:13:21] Iranian governmental culture?
[00:13:25] First, before we start the discussion, I want to say something that is very important to me:
[00:13:29] when we are talking about a social movement,
[00:13:32] any movement, not just a storytelling movement, any
[00:13:36] movement, in order to remain dynamic, in order to be able
[00:13:40] to move forward, to get closer to its horizons,
[00:13:43] needs to constantly look back at the past and review and see where
[00:13:47] it worked and where it didn't. That's why I think this critical perspective
[00:13:51] comes more from a place of solidarity and empathy. Yes.
[00:13:55] To limitations, and I think it's actually very important. Now, the #MeToo movement, despite being a very
[00:13:59] new movement, has gone through different phases in different years.
[00:14:02] So what we see today, that the survivor is actually speaking
[00:14:06] in the public sphere with her own name,
[00:14:10] this, in my opinion, is considered a very big
[00:14:13] achievement. This achievement is, in my opinion,
[00:14:17] the continuation of all the things that happened in previous years.
[00:14:21] And also, another point to consider when looking at
[00:14:25] the storytelling movement is that I think it's very important for us
[00:14:28] not to forget that
[00:14:31] we are talking about a movement whose driving
[00:14:34] forces are those who are survivors of
[00:14:38] violence, sexual violence. That's why, in my opinion,
[00:14:41] there is a delicacy
[00:14:44] required when looking at the various complexities
[00:14:47] that this perspective can have, in addition
[00:14:51] to the fact that I think it's important to have a perspective, that is,
[00:15:25] he does. That's why, in my opinion, when we look at narratives, more important than who is telling
[00:15:29] their story should be what that narrative
[00:15:32] and that case is telling us, what mechanism
[00:15:36] it is actually revealing. I mean, instead
[00:15:40] of focusing on the perpetrator, focus on the structure.
[00:15:44] In my opinion, every narrative actually has three, I mean, every
[00:15:47] investigation, every encounter with a narrative of sexual
[00:15:51] violence actually has three parts, three different goals.
[00:15:54] The first is looking at the mechanisms
[00:15:58] and relationships that made that
[00:16:01] violence possible. The second
[00:16:04] is the care of the survivor. The person
[00:16:08] who has been harmed, and in fact, the focus and concentration
[00:16:12] on healing and on the
[00:16:15] survivor. The third is holding
[00:16:18] the accused perpetrator accountable. Right.
[00:16:22] Then, in my opinion, these three things go hand in hand,
[00:16:26] and also in many places, they can have commonalities,
[00:16:29] meaning that in many places, holding the person
[00:16:33] who committed the abuse accountable can actually
[00:16:36] help heal what happened to the survivor,
[00:16:39] and ultimately, that accountability can affect
[00:16:43] the mechanism that enables
[00:16:47] violence, towards changing
[00:16:49] those relationships. Do you think
[00:16:52] the challenge is here?
[00:16:56] In my opinion, this has not happened in many places.
[00:16:59] I mean, I think in most of the #MeToo cases that have been raised so
[00:17:03] far, we have not encountered this much,
[00:17:08] that the person accused of perpetrating abuse would
[00:17:11] actually be interested and curious and even feel responsible
[00:17:15] for taking a step forward in relation to what happened.
[00:17:18] Let's discuss this challenge with Ladan.
[00:17:22] This challenge is that the focus shifts
[00:17:25] to the perpetrator and not on caring for
[00:17:29] the victim or survivor
[00:17:32] and not on structural change in laws.
[00:17:35] This is heard a lot.
[00:17:38] For example, I quote a feminist
[00:17:42] here who says that the narrative
[00:17:45] of sexual violence trauma
[00:17:49] becomes a commodity, a protest that is consumed but
[00:17:53] doesn't create change. When the narrative of a celebrity's
[00:17:56] or famous person's abuse is brought up, society, instead
[00:17:59] of focusing on women's structural rights or reforming
[00:18:02] rape laws, focuses on the man's
[00:18:06] name
[00:18:08] and the exciting and revealing details,
[00:18:12] and the woman's narrative of abuse is consumed in the chain of likes,
[00:18:15] comments, shares, and clicks,
[00:18:19] and at this point, the woman painfully
[00:18:23] becomes an object of society's voyeurism.
[00:18:26] How serious is this?
[00:18:28] I
[00:18:31] can see both sides,
[00:18:33] both that
[00:18:35] sexual violence, due to the
[00:18:37] attention it has received in the #MeToo movement, has actually
[00:18:41] come to the level of public awareness. It is one of the rarest
[00:18:45] types of violence against women in which the perpetrator
[00:18:48] or abuser is held accountable in public,
[00:18:51] and this is an opportunity. In fact, I see
[00:18:55] this as an opportunity, and I agree with
[00:18:58] Sanaz, that the structure of
[00:19:01] the #MeToo movement is about changing structures,
[00:19:05] and
[00:19:08] that structure which actually enables sexual violence
[00:19:12] is its ultimate goal, and ultimately, the ultimate
[00:19:15] goal is prevention. We want to prevent future cases of
[00:19:19] violence from happening, and at the same time, healing
[00:19:23] or reparation, as you said, should happen for the victims who are currently
[00:19:26] experiencing this. Well, this is one of the very rare
[00:19:30] cases of violence against women that we see society
[00:19:34] holding the abuser accountable. It shines a light
[00:19:37] on him. Does it really hold him accountable, or does it turn
[00:19:41] into, as I quoted from a women's
[00:19:45] rights activist, turn into
[00:19:47] a scene for the consumption of a
[00:19:51] commodity? I mean, everyone focuses on what he said, especially
[00:19:55] since the figure accused is a celebrity and has many
[00:19:59] fans, it causes polarization and a very dramatic
[00:20:03] social media
[00:20:06] activity. It creates it on social networks,
[00:20:09] and then after a while, it's forgotten, and the victim
[00:20:13] or survivor remains. Exactly. So that
[00:20:17] care we have for the survivor
[00:20:21] doesn't happen to the extent it should, especially on
[00:20:24] social media, and for example, victim-blaming
[00:20:28] is seen, condemnation: "Well, why did you go yourself? Why didn't
[00:20:31] you realize? Why did you drink? Why did
[00:20:35] you smoke pot? Why did you even put yourself in this situation? Why did
[00:20:38] you dress like that? Someone who dressed like that deserved this."
[00:20:42] This is very painful, that when a survivor comes
[00:20:46] out with her private matter and exposes it,
[00:20:49] in fact, the expectation is more empathy
[00:20:53] and support for her, so that the healing process can happen,
[00:20:56] and this is not exclusive to Iranian society, to have to answer these questions
[00:20:59] and again even expect her to sit down
[00:21:03] and describe in detail what happened. "Tell us, we can't
[00:21:06] figure it out otherwise." This was very important. This actually leads
[00:21:10] to re-traumatization, re-living
[00:21:13] the trauma she experienced once. Now she has to explain it in detail
[00:21:17] to the public, and this is actually not caring
[00:21:20] for the victim and survivor at this time.
[00:21:23] A very important discussion in this
[00:21:26] regard is the definition of sexual
[00:21:29] or gender-based harassment. When the #MeToo movement
[00:21:32] started, we, who here in the
[00:21:35] West were following the media, saw that
[00:21:39] the discussion of assault and
[00:21:42] ultimately sexual violence that occurred
[00:21:45] physically, this gradually intensified.
[00:21:49] An academic and scientific
[00:22:20] barrier to the concept of sexual harassment in
[00:22:24] Iranian public, customary, and legal
[00:22:27] literature has made this difficult. It says that in today's
[00:22:31] Iranian environment, the exact boundaries of harassment
[00:22:33] are unclear. In the absence of a precise theoretical
[00:22:37] framework, sometimes daily interactions, awkward
[00:22:41] verbal communications, words without specific
[00:22:44] intent, or two-way communication misunderstandings
[00:22:47] are placed on the same scale as systematic harassment,
[00:22:51] deliberate rapes, and structural sexual
[00:22:54] extortion. First, I want to add a few things to what I said before
[00:22:58] and then come back to your question. Firstly,
[00:23:02] I think this is a very important discussion, the discussion of caring for the survivor,
[00:23:06] because I think it receives very little attention, and in the
[00:23:09] conversations I've had in recent years, very little attention has been paid to this issue.
[00:23:12] When we talk about care, what exactly are we talking about?
[00:23:16] We just heard in the audio that was played, that
[00:23:20] situation that Malika was describing when she
[00:23:24] entered the court, and all of this, I think it's important to address
[00:23:27] that, one, that situation is a material
[00:23:30] situation. I mean, many people after the issue of rape
[00:23:34] and assault, it's not just the psychological aspect.
[00:23:37] For example, people lose their jobs, they lose their homes.
[00:23:40] In my research with those who
[00:23:44] had shared their stories, one of the survivors was Keyvan Emamverdi.
[00:23:48] Something he described was that many plaintiffs had to take a bus
[00:23:52] from another city at 4 AM, while they didn't even have their family's
[00:23:55] support. I mean, no one knew you were doing this
[00:23:59] that led to the conviction of Keyvan Emamverdi,
[00:24:03] but eventually he was released on bail.
[00:24:06] We'll get to that. He would come
[00:24:09] alone to Tehran before every court session
[00:24:13] and then go back again. The issue is that
[00:24:16] these are all material structures. When we say care,
[00:24:21] since you yourself used the word "victim," I wanted to briefly talk about this
[00:24:24] issue. Of course, I also used "survivor." Dr., I
[00:24:28] want to consciously avoid using the word "victim" here because I think
[00:24:31] one of the challenges that survivors face
[00:24:35] is precisely being positioned not
[00:24:38] as fighters in a movement, but as victims of sexual
[00:24:41] harassment. I think this is also
[00:24:44] part of caring for survivors, for the forces
[00:24:48] of the movement. It refers to a possibility that the #MeToo
[00:24:52] movement has actually created: that it doesn't reduce
[00:24:56] individuals simply to being victims, but rather creates
[00:24:59] a possibility for people to become political subjects
[00:25:03] who are paying the highest price for their storytelling
[00:25:06] and are advancing this movement. We will actually get
[00:25:10] to this later. I want to answer the question I asked
[00:25:12] to see what your opinion is. Let me see
[00:25:16] what it
[00:25:18] was. The definition of harassment. What is this
[00:25:22] and how much does its ambiguity make
[00:25:26] things difficult? First, I think this ambiguity and, in fact, the controversy and the
[00:25:30] complexity that exists in defining sexual
[00:25:33] violence is not exclusive to Iran. I mean, this is one of the challenges
[00:25:37] that exists all over the world when sexual
[00:25:40] violence is discussed. The main problem is that most of the time,
[00:25:44] sexual violence occurs in private
[00:25:47] spaces. That's why its proof and
[00:25:50] sufficient evidence for its proof are lacking. Now, in
[00:25:54] Iran's case, this becomes much more complex because there is no judicial institution that
[00:25:58] can recognize most forms of
[00:26:00] violence. In my opinion,
[00:26:32] multi-layered and full of abstract
[00:26:36] language in many of these narratives, which causes
[00:26:40] one of those audience members, who is also a curious
[00:26:43] woman, to say, "Excuse me, can you tell
[00:26:46] what happened? What was the story?" I mean, doesn't this
[00:26:49] ambiguous language in many of these narratives make things difficult?
[00:26:53] Although it's understandable in the cultural,
[00:26:56] political, and social context of Iran, it still has its own problems.
[00:27:00] They say that in the #MeToo movement, the survivor,
[00:27:03] I strongly agree that the survivor doesn't need to
[00:27:06] come and describe,
[00:27:08] and in response to that comment you
[00:27:12] mentioned, they had written, "Now come and describe in detail what
[00:27:16] happened, say this happened, and this happened, and this happened, and this happened, to convince us that
[00:27:20] this happened." That's what happens in court, in a courtroom.
[00:27:24] After that, we usually deal with a pattern
[00:27:28] rather than one person against another. Usually,
[00:27:31] we see that now, they attract public
[00:27:35] attention. Several survivors against
[00:27:38] one person, and the stories, to the extent that even
[00:27:41] revelations occur, are very similar. I mean, they are showing, for example,
[00:27:45] drugs were put in drinks, or everyone
[00:27:49] was dragged to this place or that place. As a result, this consistency
[00:27:52] between stories, between survivors who each come from a different place
[00:27:56] and didn't know each other before, and this has been seen
[00:27:59] in Hollywood cases too, how similar the stories
[00:28:03] are, and that the abuser
[00:28:06] has a specific pattern, a specific
[00:28:09] among
[00:28:12] these routines or specific patterns, as you said,
[00:28:15] patterns, one of them
[00:28:18] is psychological pressure that the woman is subjected to,
[00:28:22] and in one or two instances, this has been
[00:28:25] described as creating expectation and keeping
[00:28:28] the woman in suspense, and I also have another term.
[00:28:51] Meaning psychological pressure in an unequal
[00:28:53] relationship, or as you said, a relationship
[00:28:57] full of misunderstandings. Several points are raised here now. One of the things that
[00:29:01] has caused a lot of ambiguity is that no means no,
[00:29:05] not yes, and it's very
[00:29:08] , extremely complicated, and this is where the role
[00:29:12] of education becomes very important, that we open up
[00:29:15] this concept of when no actually means no.
[00:29:19] If someone says no, then it's not that this woman
[00:29:22] wants to be coy, this woman wants the man to
[00:29:26] be, for example, strong and assertive, he must turn
[00:29:28] the no around.
[00:29:33] Or I've seen some of those who were accused referring
[00:29:36] to the idea that in Iranian culture, this no is
[00:29:40] coquettishness and a desire. Let's see
[00:29:43] how much work has been done on this in the #MeToo movement
[00:29:46] in Iran, because consent is a complex issue,
[00:29:49] not only for men, but also for
[00:29:53] Ladin said no to it as no, they don't understand, but
[00:29:56] women should also be trained in it. I
[00:29:59] took this from the Instagram account of one of the
[00:30:02] women's rights activists. One of the reasons I don't mention some of these names is that
[00:30:06] they might not want their names to be mentioned.
[00:30:09] For example, four of
[00:30:12] the several criteria related to expressing
[00:30:16] dissent that this women's rights activist mentions
[00:30:20] on their social network or Instagram account.
[00:30:23] It was interesting for me to see how much these have
[00:30:27] become established and how much lack of transparency in storytelling
[00:30:30] causes these to be a bit.