BBCPERSIAN — broadcast
20261010 210000 UTC
370 transcript segments
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[00:00:19] And now, on BBC Persian TV, technology.
[00:00:21] فناوری.
[00:00:47] These past few weeks, there's been a lot of talk in Iran about Starlink again. Some people are talking about
[00:00:51] the possibility of mobile phones connecting to satellite internet
[00:00:53] especially in the southern regions of Iran. Also,
[00:00:57] government officials have made contradictory statements about cutting off
[00:01:00] Starlink for users in Iran. So what's the story?
[00:01:03] The answer is right here. Hello, I'm Hadi Nili, and this is Click, a program about
[00:01:07] technology. Some Iranian users on social networks have written that some
[00:01:11] people in the southern and southeastern regions of Iran have seen the possibility of connecting
[00:01:15] to Starlink satellite internet on their phones.
[00:01:19] So much so that some media outlets have also reported
[00:01:21] it. Reports from local sources in parts of
[00:01:25] Iran, especially border cities, state that the internet option
[00:01:28] on mobile phones for Starlink has been activated.
[00:01:32] Although the connection is not established, is this really
[00:01:35] new news? We've said it before right here on Click. Although this technology
[00:01:39] of direct connection to satellites is very exciting, especially for those who
[00:01:43] constantly have their internet shut off, we are still at the beginning
[00:01:47] of this technology and it has many limitations. The number of
[00:01:50] users it can cover at the moment is probably
[00:01:54] very, very limited. It's possible with Starlink. It's possible
[00:01:57] that a very limited number of people may gain access to this technology. But
[00:02:00] again, the key point is that we shouldn't have this idea
[00:02:04] that starting tomorrow, everyone in Iran will be able to connect directly to the internet
[00:02:07] through their phones. If this technology comes, another important point
[00:02:11] is that people should not fall victim to these scams.
[00:02:15] That is, suddenly messages appear in these Telegram groups saying that if you
[00:02:19] install such and such an application on your phone, you can immediately connect directly to satellite
[00:02:22] internet and also have a very good bandwidth. Unfortunately, many
[00:02:26] people might fall for such messages.
[00:02:30] They install the application, and then either their wallet is emptied or
[00:02:33] their bank accounts are actually misused
[00:02:36] and they get harmed. This is a very important point that our
[00:02:40] dear compatriots should pay attention to. Now, this is about
[00:02:42] rumors, or perhaps it's better to say dreams for now, about
[00:02:46] connecting phones to satellite internet in Iran. But what do government officials
[00:02:50] say? The Deputy Minister of Communications said in a meeting that with
[00:02:53] Starlink, the government no longer has control over the virtual space,
[00:02:57] including filtering and nationwide outages.
[00:03:09] Sir, this phenomenon is the last nail in the coffin of the Islamic Republic's rule.
[00:03:12] There will be nothing left after this. Then, the Secretary of the Supreme Council of
[00:03:16] Cyberspace responded that no, we have managed to disable Starlink terminals in
[00:03:20] Iran. Iran, almost
[00:03:23] Iran was almost the first country that could
[00:03:27] completely disable them.
[00:03:42] There is no evidence that the Iranian government has been able to disable a significant number
[00:03:46] of these devices. However, there are reports of
[00:03:50] investigations into owners of these devices and the arrest of some
[00:03:53] of these individuals. But regarding them, experts said that they probably did not
[00:03:57] observe security measures well. The government also made a lot of efforts
[00:04:00] to actually cut this off, but it was not successful.
[00:04:04] Now, they have tried to do this by interfering with GPS signals and
[00:04:08] similar actions. To some extent, they have been able to create disruptions, but they have never
[00:04:12] successfully been able to stop these Starlink terminals from
[00:04:16] working because of their special technology, which can provide
[00:04:19] a bandwidth of about 100 to over 100 megabits per second
[00:04:23] to users inside Iran. And those who have access to
[00:04:27] this technology should consider safety tips so that, God forbid,
[00:04:30] no problem arises for them. What, for example?
[00:04:34] To ensure the concealment of your identity and address when using
[00:04:37] Starlink, because this device is smuggled and illegal, it's important to obtain
[00:04:41] it from trusted sources. When you don't need the Starlink terminal,
[00:04:45] turn it off. Absolutely, absolutely do not enter
[00:04:48] Iranian apps and websites with Starlink internet because they can detect
[00:04:52] you have Starlink internet and track you. Do not use
[00:04:55] the device's own Wi-Fi. Connect a regular router
[00:04:58] to Starlink and get your Wi-Fi from that.
[00:05:02] But apart from these police confrontations,
[00:05:05] the Iranian government has been trying to restrict Starlink satellite internet
[00:05:08] in international forums since three years ago when Starlink
[00:05:11] was expanding in Iran, including by complaining to the International
[00:05:15] Telecommunication Union. Following this, the board of directors of
[00:05:19] this intergovernmental body asked Starlink to disable unauthorized terminals in
[00:05:22] Iran. Recently, the Iranian government also protested to Norway, asking why
[00:05:26] this request has not been implemented. Now, why Norway? Because Starlink has
[00:05:30] officially registered a part of its telecommunications
[00:05:34] infrastructure through Norway and the rest through the US,
[00:05:38] which recently had a 40-day conflict with Iran, and currently tensions between
[00:05:41] Iran and the US are high. However, civil groups and internet freedom activists
[00:05:45] protested this decision of the International Telecommunication Union
[00:05:49] and said that governments should not be the only ones with the right
[00:05:52] to comment on this. It seems the story of Iranians with Starlink will
[00:05:56] continue for a long
[00:05:57] time.
[00:06:02] Now, let's come back from space to Earth. Here, technology is changing
[00:06:06] everything so fast that if someone traveled from a few decades ago
[00:06:10] to today, they might think they went to space. This includes
[00:06:13] various kinds of robots, both tall and short, that are doing warehousing and other
[00:06:17] tasks instead of us humans. Suranjan and Tuwari
[00:06:20] went to visit one of these robot
[00:06:22] manufacturers.
[00:06:30] Every time you order clothes, food, or essential household items online,
[00:06:33] there's a chance that one of these has been involved.
[00:06:37] Across the world, in large warehouses,
[00:06:41] fleets of autonomous robots are revolutionizing the way
[00:06:44] orders are picked, packed, and shipped.
[00:06:47] کنن.
[00:06:50] A lot of this technology is currently being designed and manufactured in China, led by
[00:06:54] companies like Geek Plus, the largest supplier of autonomous
[00:06:58] mobile robots for warehousing in
[00:07:00] the world.
[00:07:02] In the early stages, the challenge is for customers to recognize
[00:07:06] these robotic technologies and believe that they are truly
[00:07:09] worthwhile. Currently, what we see in the market is that most
[00:07:13] companies worldwide are aware of the rapid expansion of automation
[00:07:17] and are using smart robotics to
[00:07:20] revolutionize their logistics departments.
[00:07:23] Years of investment in AI
[00:07:26] and robotics have helped China become a world leader
[00:07:30] in these fields.
[00:07:32] Warehouse automation has existed for decades. What has changed is that
[00:07:36] software can now coordinate hundreds of autonomous robots
[00:07:40] in real time. This way, companies can deploy robots
[00:07:43] without needing to build special infrastructure. In
[00:07:47] traditional warehouses, workers might have to walk very long distances
[00:07:51] to pick orders. But with this
[00:07:54] technology, goods come to the workers themselves. There is no
[00:07:58] predetermined path. There are only QR codes on the floor.
[00:08:02] With this technology, companies can stack goods even higher
[00:08:05] than usual. This way, since workers have to move less,
[00:08:09] they can process more orders faster
[00:08:13] and with fewer errors. Automation is entering more
[00:08:17] challenging areas. Some models of these driverless forklifts
[00:08:21] can handle up to 2,000 kilograms of weight and move heavy
[00:08:24] loads without a driver.
[00:08:28] The biggest retail companies in Britain, such as Next,
[00:08:32] Tesco, and Asda, are investing in this technology to better
[00:08:35] fulfill online orders.
[00:08:39] But as robots become more capable, questions arise about
[00:08:42] the future of work. Motion Technology, which deploys
[00:08:46] Geek Plus robots in British warehouses, says they are helping to solve
[00:08:50] one of the biggest problems in the logistics industry.
[00:08:53] The issue is not that robots are replacing workers.
[00:08:57] Apparently, there is currently a severe shortage of labor
[00:09:01] in Britain. As a result, these technologies are really important
[00:09:05] for business growth and also for meeting demand.
[00:09:08] Businesses, for development and moving forward, really need
[00:09:19] to perform many daily tasks that require skills and have so far been performed
[00:09:23] by humans. Geek Plus is designing
[00:09:26] humanoid robots equipped with AI to hand over some of
[00:09:30] these tasks to robots as well. The Chinese company Agile
[00:09:34] Bot has even gone further and is delivering its humanoid
[00:09:37] robots to factories to be used there for product
[00:09:40] inspection and sorting those with defects. These
[00:09:44] robots are designed so that for working in human environments,
[00:09:48] there is no need for factories to redesign
[00:09:51] their production lines from scratch.
[00:09:54] Those in the logistics industry say that the autonomous robots we
[00:09:58] have now still have a long way to go before they become fully operational
[00:10:02] for moving goods. Humanoid robots
[00:10:05] are a long-term goal for this industry, but it will still be some time until they become
[00:10:09] a common sight on factory floors and in warehouses.
[00:10:12] These past few weeks, you've seen reports from Arezoo Mirzakhani from the Berlin Technology
[00:10:16] Exhibition, IFA, which is the largest such event
[00:10:20] in Europe. Now let's take another look at the Berlin exhibition.
[00:10:23] برلین یه سو
[00:10:41] A device that a sound engineer designed to get rid of the troubles of
[00:10:44] his teenage daughter, who is an independent artist.
[00:10:47] کرده.
[00:10:57] In fact, he was tired of having to set up all the equipment
[00:11:00] from scratch every time he wanted to record or produce content with his daughter,
[00:11:04] a task that is both time-consuming and prone to
[00:11:08] breaking down or not working properly. So he designed
[00:11:12] this device that virtually eliminates all these
[00:11:15] troubles and makes work easier for artists.
[00:11:18] Of course, this device is not only for artists. Content
[00:11:22] creators, actors, and even people who
[00:11:26] record themselves at home for tests or trial performances
[00:11:29] can also use
[00:11:32] it.
[00:11:35] Inside this device, which from the outside looks like a microphone,
[00:11:38] there are several separate gadgets and components. For example,
[00:11:42] it has an audio interface, something that is usually sold as a separate
[00:11:45] device. It also has monitors for the ears that work
[00:11:49] wirelessly. You can put them in your ears
[00:11:52] and use them.
[00:11:56] Both sides of the device also have receivers.
[00:11:59] Now I'm connecting it to my phone.
[00:12:03] کنم.
[00:12:05] The device is now connected to my phone. It has two types of microphones:
[00:12:09] condenser and an amplified radio microphone.
[00:12:13] This means you can have a one-way or two-way recording mode.
[00:12:16] And now you should be able to hear your own voice in your
[00:12:20] ears.
[00:12:23] The idea of having a complete studio in such a small
[00:12:26] device can be a very revolutionary idea if it really
[00:12:30] works. The sound quality I heard just now was good,
[00:12:34] but we have to see if when a musician
[00:12:37] records sound
[00:12:40] and then we listen to it, does it really have
[00:12:44] that sound quality?
[00:12:48] I can adjust the microphone
[00:12:52] according to the room space. Now it's on "Gain."
[00:13:55] Compressor, limiter, and various other settings
[00:13:59] of this type are also available. Therefore, with these settings, we can
[00:14:02] adjust the microphone according to the room space. Now, if I only
[00:14:06] want to record a few seconds of audio, for example, a few lines
[00:14:10] of an idea for a podcast or for
[00:14:12] an interview, I can use this. As you can
[00:14:16] see, the device is currently in recording mode. If I want to
[00:14:19] record a song, I essentially connect it using
[00:14:23] the USB cable that comes with the device.
[00:14:27] In this mode, there is almost no delay. Of course, even with
[00:14:30] this wireless receiver, the delay is almost zero.
[00:14:34] This functionality is part of the exclusive technology of
[00:14:38] this device. This means less work in the post-production
[00:14:41] stage. For a musician, it also means that when
[00:14:44] they sing, the lyrics are exactly on beat
[00:14:48] and are not heard behind
[00:14:52] the beat.
[00:15:04] You can even use it for live performances. You can connect
[00:15:08] it to a live sound system and perform,
[00:15:12] for example, in a small cafe or for
[00:15:15] street
[00:15:16] performances.
[00:15:21] We use this device for live interviews, live podcasts,
[00:15:25] and similar tasks.
[00:15:27] کنیم.
[00:15:33] It's a technology company that says musicians founded
[00:15:36] it.
[00:15:40] I was lucky enough to become friends with an artist whose music
[00:15:44] I had listened to since childhood. He is a member of the
[00:15:47] Gengstar Foundation. Jerrod Damja is currently
[00:15:51] on tour. He took one of the devices with him on tour
[00:15:55] and one day he was contacted by a big hip-hop
[00:15:58] producer who said they needed a piece of his voice
[00:16:02] right now. He said,
[00:16:05] داریم اون هم گفت
[00:16:54] AI and its mischief or suspicious activities reminds us of
[00:16:58] this. The same company you've surely heard about its ChatGPT and probably
[00:17:02] used many times, OpenAI, said its AI agents
[00:17:05] went after websites.
[00:17:29] are being tested. They have two goals: one main goal, which is, for example,
[00:17:33] in this case that arose for the Ministry of Education,
[00:17:36] the model was supposed to find some statistics, and it pursues that
[00:17:40] goal. A part of the reward it
[00:17:43] receives is for the goal, the reward of persistence, how much it insists
[00:17:47] to achieve that goal and reach its
[00:17:50] reward. Now, what happens is that no one may directly say, "Go hack
[00:17:54] this website," but the reward for being able to find
[00:17:57] that number and that statistic is so great that the model does
[00:18:01] everything to reach that number and that data. As a result, when
[00:18:05] we are optimizing for only one thing,
[00:18:08] the model has no constraints to stop it from doing
[00:18:12] something bad. It wasn't like the model said, "Oh, I want to go hack the website of
[00:18:15] the embassy or the education website."
[00:18:18] The point is that it wants a number and is willing to do anything to get
[00:18:22] that number. Concerns about rogue behavior and unauthorized
[00:18:25] actions of AI agents have been rising for several
[00:18:29] months. Now, numerous cases have been revealed where these
[00:18:33] agents exhibited alarming behaviors, and these are just the cases
[00:18:36] that have been found out. When a model is being optimized to
[00:18:40] learn something, the optimization method is that you have a
[00:18:43] function that you are optimizing and the model is supposed to reach a
[00:18:47] goal. For example, here, if it can get that number, which I think was the
[00:18:50] ratio of people who faced a problem in education,
[00:18:54] such a number, the model has to obtain this statistic. Until the
[00:18:58] model obtains this statistic, it has practically not reached its goal and the
[00:19:02] optimization has not been done. Now, just to achieve this, it is willing to do
[00:19:05] anything. The reward for the model is reaching the goal, for example, this
[00:19:09] is your prize. When you are optimizing and you have several goals, in the end
[00:19:13] one goal wins. Imagine you have a dog and you are rewarding
[00:19:16] it, for example, with food. It is supposed to learn to jump. Now, the point is, for
[00:19:20] that dog, is the reward more important or is it not jumping on a stranger
[00:19:24] when it jumps? When the food reward is more important, it doesn't
[00:19:28] care if it's a stranger, or a friend, or its owner. It's the same
[00:19:32] for models. You can define several goals, but in the end one goal
[00:19:35] wins, and the biggest goal is to access
[00:19:39] that number. No matter how much you tell it, "Okay, don't hack this website, don't do
[00:19:42] this," if the reward for achieving that ultimate goal
[00:19:46] is so strong, the model might do it. Just like humans, dogs, or anything
[00:19:50] you are training might do something like that.
[00:19:53] Now, what's the solution? How can AI agents be made to understand
[00:19:57] that some things are red lines? For example, companies that own widely used
[00:20:01] AI tools, from ChatGPT and Gemini to Claude, have now prevented
[00:20:05] these AI models from doing this.
[00:20:37] From the beginning, companies like OpenAI considered this. We wouldn't be in this
[00:20:41] situation now. But now, as you said, for example, it used to talk about suicide, but now it doesn't
[00:20:45] do that anymore. Now, if we include these things in their training
[00:20:48] for hacking, these problems can be reduced significantly.
[00:20:52] The only issue is that until now, the main problem has not been security,
[00:20:55] and suddenly this is a huge problem. Many
[00:20:59] experts, including those involved in these AI tools, warn
[00:21:02] that in the coming months, we will hear more and more about such cases
[00:21:06] where AI has crossed the line without being told. The concern
[00:21:10] is that soon the internet will be full of AI hackers who are accountable
[00:21:14] to no one.
[00:21:32] Despite all the new software and hardware advancements,
[00:21:35] we still don't have a universal and user-friendly tool for sign language
[00:21:39] translation. A group of young Kenyans have been working on a prototype.
[00:21:42] One difficulty is that sign languages vary in different
[00:21:46] regions, and if someone wants to create something similar
[00:21:50] for Iran, it must be adapted to Iranian sign language.
[00:21:53] Reporting.
[00:21:55] میده.
[00:22:02] Here we are at a technology center in the heart of Nairobi,
[00:22:05] the capital of Kenya, to meet Ellie Savatia, founder of Sign
[00:22:08] Verse and creator of Tap 360. The platform he has
[00:22:12] launched is equipped with AI to help bridge language gaps
[00:22:15] and increase accessibility by making it easier.
[00:22:50] Then comes Tap
[00:22:52] Web, which integrates with websites and web pages, making the
[00:22:56] sign language translator accessible with a widget.
[00:23:00] Our goal was to automate sign language. We thought it would be
[00:23:03] good to be inspired by animations. At first, we actually created
[00:23:07] animations manually that spoke sign language.
[00:23:11] But we realized that our product was not scalable this
[00:23:15] way. Meaning it couldn't be expanded. We received a grant from the
[00:23:18] Kenyan President's Innovation Award and used it to purchase
[00:23:22] a motion capture suit.
[00:23:25] کردیم
[00:23:31] What made you think of using 3D avatars?
[00:23:35] Honestly, a lot of it was inspired by James Cameron's films.
[00:23:38] We looked at how characters are brought to life in Avatar
[00:23:42] films and even some Marvel films. We examined
[00:23:45] their use of technology and found that
[00:23:48] it really mixes. With the motion capture suit, we can digitally
[00:23:52] capture sign language movements. Of course, until now, we had
[00:23:56] to use human interpreters for sign language translation for
[00:23:59] deaf audiences. But, well, human
[00:24:03] translation cannot be scaled, meaning it's not possible in
[00:24:07] large numbers.
[00:24:10] So far, Tap 360 has been trained to translate about 6,000 English
[00:24:14] words into Kenyan sign language. This team is trying
[00:24:18] to develop this sign language model.
[00:25:20] to come to our offices and help us work on
[00:25:24] validation, that is words and
[00:25:27] also data collection.
[00:25:30] more languages are spoken, for
[00:25:33] example, English,
[00:25:36] French, but when it is interpreted
[00:25:39] into sign language, it
[00:25:42] changes and it has its
[00:25:45] own grammar rule. We
[00:25:48] are coming to close. The gap where communication
[00:25:52] barrier for deaf people
[00:25:55] is.
[00:26:03] Tools like this didn't exist before. Now we are only working
[00:26:06] for the deaf community. Disability can take many
[00:26:10] more forms. When you see that your innovation helps people,
[00:26:14] when you get feedback from users, how do you feel?
[00:26:17] Getting feedback from those we serve has been really
[00:26:21] encouraging. Seeing the involvement of the deaf
[00:26:24] community itself in improving this platform is very
[00:26:27] exciting. To witness our solution evolving
[00:26:31] beautifully over
[00:26:35] time.
[00:26:35] زمان.
[00:26:41] As always, you can also watch our previous programs on YouTube. Just scan this
[00:26:45] code to reach our playlist on YouTube. For example, if you'd like to watch
[00:26:48] our previous programs from the Berlin exhibition if you haven't seen them yet. I'm also
[00:26:52] on Instagram. Here are the options for the Click program and also the latest tech news.
[00:26:55] I publish or republish them there. You can write to me there and tell me what
[00:26:59] you think about the reports you've seen. Do you know anyone who would benefit from
[00:27:03] an automatic sign language translator? Are you worried about AI hackers?
[00:27:06] Do you think robots are replacing humans or
[00:27:10] are they more likely to be our helpers? Write to me. Until the next
[00:27:14] Click programs and new stories from the world of technology, goodbye.
[00:29:34] name, phone number, or picture. Even us.
[00:30:22] For the first few months, we didn't know where the children were. That night, they kidnapped the children
[00:30:25] from their home. They kidnapped them without any warrant, without
[00:30:29] having any warrant. My aunt and my relatives.
[00:30:32] I went daily from one court to another, from one hospital
[00:30:36] to another, to forensic medicine. For several
[00:30:40] days, they were at the gate of Dowlatabad prison.
[00:30:44] BBC Persian's exclusive report on the ambiguous case
[00:30:47] of Shohada Square in Isfahan on the International Day
[00:30:50] Against the Death Penalty. The noose still hangs around the necks of the
[00:30:54] protesters of December. We will speak with a human rights activist and ask.