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[00:00:21] We didn't know for the first few months where the children were. They kidnapped the children at night.
[00:00:24] They kidnapped them from inside the house. They kidnapped them without any warrant, without
[00:00:28] any warrant, aunt. And my relatives were almost
[00:00:31] daily from this court to that court, from this
[00:00:35] hospital to that hospital, forensics. For several days,
[00:00:39] they were at the door of the Dolatabad prison. A BBC Persian exclusive report
[00:00:43] on the controversial case of Esfahan's Shohada Square
[00:00:46] on World Day against the Death Penalty.
[00:00:49] The gallows are still around the necks of the protesters. We speak with
[00:00:53] a human rights activist and ask why the process of dealing with
[00:00:57] energy cases is about
[00:01:07] concessions to the Kremlin. Zelensky says that lifting
[00:01:11] the ban on Russian gas oil sales prolongs
[00:01:14] the war. Trump says Ukraine needs
[00:01:18] new leadership for peace. An MP from Ukraine
[00:01:21] is our guest to talk about the implications of the US President's decision
[00:01:24] for Kyiv. Iranian reactions to the US
[00:01:27] Secretary of State's speech
[00:01:30] in Greece. Could the resistance of the Athenians
[00:01:33] against Xerxes' army be
[00:01:36] a modern allegory? The Iranians plundered
[00:01:39] the temples, burned the shrines,
[00:01:43] and razed the Acropolis. And despite
[00:01:47] the escalation of Saudi
[00:01:47] airstrikes and the expansion of clashes
[00:01:53] around the Bab el-Mandeb strait, the Houthi rebels in Yemen once again targeted
[00:01:56] Riyadh International Airport. 60 minutes live
[00:02:00] from BBC
[00:02:15] in London. Iran is facing
[00:02:18] multiple crises, from the uncertainty
[00:02:22] of an unfinished war with America to being caught
[00:02:26] in the grip of economic pressures.
[00:02:30] Meanwhile, every week, news is published about the issuance of death
[00:02:34] sentences or executions, which are mostly related
[00:02:38] to the protests of December 2023. Protests that were brutally
[00:02:41] suppressed, leaving thousands dead. In one of these cases,
[00:02:45] known as Shohada Square in Isfahan, 16 people were accused.
[00:02:48] 10 of them were sentenced to death by the lower
[00:02:51] court. This case was formed in connection
[00:02:55] with the killing of a member of the Revolutionary Guard and a homeless
[00:02:59] citizen. In the past year, Iran has witnessed executions
[00:03:02] that are rare in the last half-century. Why does the government
[00:03:06] behave this way in wartime and under crushing economic
[00:03:09] pressures? First, we go to Maryam
[00:03:13] Afshan, who has prepared a special report on this matter.
[00:03:16] Today is the World Day Against the Death Penalty.
[00:03:20] Tell me more about my research. You see, Jamal, this
[00:03:23] case is a very complex and full
[00:03:27] of ambiguities and many question marks. It is
[00:03:30] both for public opinion
[00:03:34] and for families whose loved ones
[00:03:38] are currently in prison. As you said, 16
[00:03:41] people are accused in this case,
[00:03:45] and 10 people have been sentenced to death,
[00:03:48] including a very young girl.
[00:03:52] Another thing about this case is that there are two sisters who are
[00:03:55] both twins.
[00:03:59] And I think they are 20 years old, very young.
[00:04:02] Taraneh and Romina Rahimi, Taraneh has been sentenced
[00:04:06] to death and Romina to 26 years
[00:04:09] in prison. Then there are three brothers,
[00:04:12] Milad Ali Mehrdad Buyiri,
[00:04:16] of whom Mehrdad has been sentenced to death and the other two brothers to
[00:04:19] long prison terms. There is also
[00:04:23] another young girl named Setayesh Saedi, who I think
[00:04:26] is 18 or at most 19 years old, in this case.
[00:04:30] We are talking about children who are very young,
[00:04:34] most of them were born in
[00:04:37] '84, '85, '86. That means they
[00:04:41] could be your children and mine, and such heavy
[00:04:44] sentences, so rushed and full of
[00:04:47] ambiguities, in a situation where as soon
[00:04:50] as they were able to come to court, they said that they were forced
[00:04:54] to confess under torture. This
[00:04:57] really fuels concern about
[00:05:01] what is happening in Iran's courts. Now we
[00:05:05] can watch the report together first. Esfahan 19.
[00:05:08] People of Iran, maintain your unity.
[00:05:12] Esfahan, the protests of December 2023.
[00:05:14] One of the bloodiest protests
[00:05:18] in Iran.
[00:05:20] Thousands killed and injured, thousands arrested.
[00:05:23] Dozens executed and many others facing death
[00:05:27] sentences. The case of Shohada Square in Isfahan
[00:05:30] is one of the judicial cases of these protests.
[00:05:34] BBC Persian, by examining documents from this case
[00:05:37] and interviewing several informed sources,
[00:05:40] has found that 16 people
[00:05:42] in this case face charges including
[00:05:46] enmity against God, aiding and abetting enmity against God,
[00:05:49] destruction of public property under the guise of enmity against God,
[00:05:53] assembly and collusion, and propaganda against the system.
[00:05:56] The Esfahan court has issued death sentences for 10 of these
[00:06:00] individuals and heavy prison sentences for the
[00:06:03] others. For Taraneh Rahimi, Navid Elyasi,
[00:06:07] Abolfazl Dadgostari,
[00:06:09] Mehdi Mansouri Hasanabadi, Ahmadreza.
[00:06:32] Most of them were born in the 80s. Young girls
[00:06:35] and boys were all arrested in February in their homes.
[00:06:39] One of the most important ambiguities of the
[00:06:43] case revolves around the killing of two people:
[00:06:46] Abbas Kamrani, a security officer, and another,
[00:06:49] who is referred to as a homeless person without mentioning
[00:06:52] his name. The accused were mostly employees
[00:06:56] of shoe stores in Shohada Square in Isfahan, and
[00:06:59] some of them had not even seen or known each other before.
[00:07:03] There are many questions and ambiguities in this case.
[00:07:07] BBC interviews with informed individuals and sources close
[00:07:10] to the families indicate that these sentences were
[00:07:14] based on forced confessions. Taraneh and Romina Rahimi
[00:07:18] are twin sisters, 20 years old, and Taraneh is facing a death sentence.
[00:07:22] For the first few months, we didn't know where the children were. They kidnapped
[00:07:25] the children from their home at night. They kidnapped them without any warrant,
[00:07:28] without having any warrant. My aunt and my relatives
[00:07:31] were almost daily from this court to that
[00:07:35] court, from this hospital to that hospital, forensics.
[00:07:37] For several days, they were at the door of the Dolatabad prison,
[00:07:41] and they were not given any answer. No one would answer.
[00:07:45] The question was, are my children here or not? No one would answer.
[00:07:48] They even gathered behind Dolatabad prison
[00:07:52] and got no answer. Those days were very painful
[00:07:56] until my aunt's family
[00:07:59] was able to go and see the children, and that was also
[00:08:02] painful. She couldn't believe the physical and mental state of these children
[00:08:06] she had seen. She hadn't recognized them,
[00:08:08] she didn't know, she hadn't understood that these were her children until
[00:08:12] I spoke to her or my aunt had written a heartfelt note saying that
[00:08:16] I have these children from my whole life,
[00:08:20] I don't want to see all the effort they put into living for these children,
[00:08:23] one at the gallows and one for 25 years behind bars.
[00:08:27] It is very painful. Mehrdad,
[00:08:30] Ali, and Milad Buyiri, three brothers, are among the other
[00:08:34] defendants in the case. The family had no news of the children for 90 days.
[00:08:38] They kept going to Dolatabad prison. They were told that the children were there
[00:08:42] and no one could touch them. Mehrdad was in solitary
[00:08:46] confinement for about 50 days, and Ali and Milad for about 30 days.
[00:08:50] They were forced to confess to the murder of an officer.
[00:08:53] But none of them agreed. On the 50th day, they put two
[00:08:57] videos in front of Mehrdad and told him he had to choose between being the one who
[00:09:00] killed the officer or the one who destroyed the signboard. Mehrdad,
[00:09:04] out of fear of choosing between bad and worse, said that he had torn down the signboard,
[00:09:08] while later he told his family that he had neither torn down the signboard nor seen anyone killed there.
[00:09:11] They only had a picture of Milad standing in a shop with his hands in his pockets.
[00:09:15] They told him that his apprentice had made a Molotov cocktail and he was guarding him so he could throw
[00:09:19] it at the officers. They also pressured Ali by threatening his mother.
[00:09:23] When he said he hadn't done anything, they told him his case couldn't be
[00:09:26] empty. Finally, they forced him to write that he had thrown
[00:09:30] stones at the officers. One in the East Square and one in Shohada Square.
[00:09:34] In the end, Mehrdad was sentenced to death and 11 years in prison for
[00:09:38] enmity against God and destruction of public property, Milad to 36 years in prison,
[00:09:41] and Ali to about.
[00:09:45] An informed source close to the case told us:
[00:09:48] The court process was completely unfair.
[00:09:51] When the children said in court that they had been tortured,
[00:09:55] the judge, instead of investigating, threatened them and said,
[00:09:59] "They taught you these things." Even those who had court-appointed lawyers
[00:10:02] raised the issue of torture. The case is full of contradictions.
[00:10:06] The forensic doctor's letters have also been tampered with. In court, it was said
[00:10:09] that Ahmadreza Saeedi has cognitive problems. It has
[00:10:12] affected his decision-making ability, but in the case
[00:10:16] file, it is written that he is completely healthy. The case
[00:10:19] photos are also blurry, and the only evidence is the confessions
[00:10:22] that were said to have been taken under torture, which is also full of contradictions.
[00:10:26] Lawyers complained to the Revolutionary Guard intelligence
[00:10:29] about the torture claims. In court, the judge accepted the children's
[00:10:33] confessions, but when one of them wanted to testify about what he had seen
[00:10:37] or known, he silenced him. Once Milad said,
[00:10:41] "I didn't do this." The judge asked, "Do you have a witness?" And Abolfazl
[00:10:45] Dadgostar said, "I am a witness." The judge started insulting Abolfazl. Or
[00:10:49] for example, Ahmadreza said he had been waiting all the time
[00:10:52] for the interrogator to come so he could speak. He was hopeful
[00:10:56] that in court, someone would finally listen to him without beating him.
[00:10:59] The judge asked him, "Didn't you speak in front of the interrogator?"
[00:11:03] And he said, "No, I didn't say anything. The interrogator came and shocked my testicles and neck."
[00:11:07] Then I realized that this interrogator was torturing me.
[00:11:11] It is in the case file that Taraneh had a knife. Then
[00:11:14] during the interrogation, they gave Taraneh a knife, and under forced confession,
[00:11:18] she said, "Yes, this is my knife." In court, the knife they showed
[00:11:22] was completely different from the one in the interrogation that Taraneh had.
[00:11:44] informed us that the families of these prisoners have been severely harassed
[00:11:48] and insulted many times during these months.
[00:11:52] He spoke about the days and months of wandering of the Buyiri family
[00:11:55] to find news of their sons. He said: Once the mother
[00:11:58] of the boys sat for hours at the door of the interrogator's room, hoping to
[00:12:02] get an answer, and as soon as the interrogator heard the names of the Buyiris,
[00:12:06] he said, "I don't want to answer you." For a whole week, they would go from 7 am to 2 pm,
[00:12:10] hoping someone would give them an answer, and nothing. At the court,
[00:12:13] they were told, "You are bastards. Your children are also bastards."
[00:12:16] From February 4th to April 24th,
[00:12:20] this family had no news of their sons. They didn't even know
[00:12:23] if the children were alive or dead. The first time the family was able
[00:12:27] to see the children, they were shocked, so much so that three of them had shrunk.
[00:12:31] They said they just looked at each other. They were all in very bad condition.
[00:12:35] Then they held a sham trial on the 22nd, 23rd, and 24th
[00:12:38] of July. The children's defenses were not taken into
[00:12:41] account at all in that court. Based on those forced confessions,
[00:12:45] the children were sentenced. No weapons were seized from any of them,
[00:12:49] nor was there any connection to the killing of the officer. A video of Mehrdad from 10 years
[00:12:52] ago was included in the case file, showing him with a knife.
[00:13:13] Multi-hour trials, sometimes with less than 15 minutes
[00:13:17] for the defendant to defend themselves, confessions that, according
[00:13:21] to reports, were obtained under torture, formed the basis
[00:13:25] for the issuance of harsh and death sentences.
[00:13:28] According to Javaid Rehman, the special rapporteur on human
[00:13:31] rights in Iran, even the defense lawyers in these cases
[00:13:34] have faced threats, intimidation, detention, and disbarment.
[00:13:38] When the right to a defense and a fair trial is taken
[00:13:42] from the accused, concern for the lives of the detainees
[00:13:45] is more serious than ever. Maryam Afshang
[00:13:49] is still with us. Maryam, the examples
[00:13:53] you researched,
[00:13:56] we were somewhat aware of them, they have been
[00:13:59] reported, but many times we know
[00:14:03] that things have happened, but there is not much
[00:14:06] information about them, or getting information is
[00:14:09] very difficult. Jamal, you made a very
[00:14:12] important and correct point. Even this report,
[00:14:15] which contrary to our usual process is relatively long,
[00:14:18] doesn't even show the tip of the iceberg
[00:14:22] about this case, which is a controversial
[00:14:26] case that has made noise. In fact,
[00:14:30] we are dealing with families who have been wandering
[00:14:34] for months and don't even know if their loved ones
[00:14:37] are alive or dead. And they are looking
[00:14:40] everywhere for them, while at the same
[00:14:44] time, these children are in prison
[00:14:47] and being tortured to extract confessions from them.
[00:14:51] Then, on the other hand, families are constantly
[00:14:55] under pressure, under threat, as Javaid Rehman
[00:14:58] has said, and our own research shows
[00:15:01] that they are used as a tool to pressure the prisoner.
[00:15:05] They are tortured in front of the prisoner
[00:15:08] to get confessions, and these are families who don't even dare to speak.
[00:15:12] Furthermore, we are talking about very ordinary people
[00:15:16] who are not political activists and do not have the tools
[00:15:20] and means, and they don't know where to go
[00:15:23] to look for a lawyer. Here I say that
[00:15:26] if they ever want to, the doors of the BBC
[00:15:30] are open, and we are here to report
[00:15:34] their story and what is happening.
[00:15:37] On the other hand, we are dealing with lawyers
[00:15:41] who are constantly threatened. Their license to practice
[00:15:44] law is revoked. They themselves are constantly
[00:15:48] going to court under heavy sentences so that they do not report
[00:15:51] and do not accept these cases at all. And
[00:15:55] there are many cases where even the prisoner
[00:15:59] and the accused did not have access to a court-appointed
[00:16:03] lawyer. This is a series
[00:16:06] of events that constantly tarnish these cases,
[00:16:10] and accurate and correct information does not come
[00:16:14] out. And on the other hand, as you
[00:16:16] yourself said, in two nights, thousands of people were killed,
[00:16:20] according to the Islamic Republic and its officials, over 3,000
[00:16:24] people, and now we have statistics that show much higher numbers.
[00:16:27] And it seems that from the very first moment,
[00:16:31] the order was to kill the protesters, and now
[00:16:34] exactly the same thing is happening in the courts.
[00:16:39] Just without being very hasty,
[00:16:42] without actually being clearly explained,
[00:16:46] death sentences are issued. On the other hand, when thousands
[00:16:50] of citizens have been killed and there is still no
[00:16:53] court for the perpetrators and commanders of the mass
[00:16:57] killing of protesters, we see that, for example,
[00:17:01] in this very case, it is said that an officer named
[00:17:04] Abbas Kamrani and another person who was a homeless person,
[00:17:08] even the name of that homeless person is not mentioned in this
[00:17:11] case file. In any case, we are talking about human lives,
[00:17:15] and that homeless person should also have a name, and we should know
[00:17:18] who we are talking about. I want to say that
[00:17:21] it is very difficult to report and reach
[00:17:25] the truth and reality of what is happening in Iranian
[00:17:28] prisons and Iranian courts. We just, as you said,
[00:17:32] sometimes wake up in the morning and a name comes up that
[00:17:36] someone has been executed, and there isn't even a picture
[00:17:40] of the executed person, let alone more information
[00:17:43] and details of the case. Thank you, Maryam
[00:17:46] Afshang. Mahmoud Amiry-Moghaddam,
[00:17:49] Director of Iran Human Rights Organization, is with us from
[00:17:53] Oslo, the capital of Norway. Mr. Amiry-Moghaddam, when
[00:17:56] a human life is at stake, a full investigation should
[00:17:59] be carried out. It seems that in cases related
[00:18:03] to the December protests, there is a lot of haste.
[00:18:07] The necessary precautions are not taken. Why should
[00:18:10] this be the case? Yes, greetings to you
[00:18:13] and the viewers and Ms. Afshang. Look,
[00:18:17] even though for the past 19 years
[00:18:19] we have been following
[00:18:22] death penalty cases and executions daily,
[00:18:25] as was mentioned in the report, unfortunately,
[00:18:29] these cases that were mentioned
[00:18:32] are not rare in the judicial system of the Islamic Republic.
[00:18:36] But still, every time we hear
[00:18:39] about them, it is shocking.
[00:18:42] You see, in the Islamic Republic, we do not
[00:18:46] have an independent judiciary.
[00:18:49] The goal of the judiciary is not to implement
[00:18:52] justice, but rather
[00:18:55] to preserve the system. The expediency of the system
[00:18:59] has the highest priority.
[00:19:02] And currently, after
[00:19:05] the December protests, the Islamic Republic is experiencing
[00:19:09] one of the biggest crises of its existence. It doesn't
[00:19:13] know what will happen the next time there is a protest,
[00:19:16] and based on the experience it has gained in these 47 years,
[00:19:20] it knows that
[00:19:24] intimidating people and
[00:19:26] actually instilling a sense of helplessness in people
[00:19:30] through executions, through these forced
[00:19:33] confessions, and death sentences that are issued and executed,
[00:19:37] has been able to maintain power, and unfortunately,
[00:19:41] they continue this pattern. Look, the Revolutionary Courts
[00:19:45] are not courts;
[00:19:48] they are a continuation of the same repressive organs. We have
[00:19:52] heard this many times over the past 19 years
[00:19:55] that it seems that when a defendant is brought
[00:19:59] to the Revolutionary Court,
[00:20:02] the decision has already been made,
[00:20:05] meaning there is no connection
[00:20:09] with the documents or with the claims of
[00:20:12] the accused. Mr. Amir-Moghaddam,
[00:20:16] you mentioned that they want to create fear and terror to push
[00:20:19] back the protests. But is it not possible
[00:20:23] that the opposite approach will cause anger
[00:20:26] and further fuel public dissatisfaction and actually
[00:20:30] have the opposite effect? Look,
[00:20:32] in the long run, this method will
[00:20:36] not work at all.
[00:20:40] It seems that those who have this
[00:20:43] philosophy and pursue this policy
[00:20:47] do not think long-term, but rather
[00:20:50] think about buying time. It is true that
[00:20:53] no system can continue solely
[00:20:56] based on intimidation, but currently, it seems
[00:21:00] that the Islamic Republic actually has nothing else
[00:21:04] to offer the people. When thousands, or perhaps
[00:21:07] hundreds of thousands, millions of people
[00:21:11] come to the streets, instead of even responding
[00:21:14] to one percent of their demands,
[00:21:18] the government responds in the streets with
[00:21:21] violence and killing, and after that,
[00:21:25] to prevent protests, there are
[00:21:27] death sentences. This
[00:21:30] is not the first time, but we have a very
[00:21:33] fundamental crisis, even if
[00:21:37] they want to change their policy, we have
[00:21:40] a system, in fact, a judicial crisis,
[00:21:44] a crisis of the judicial system in the Islamic Republic,
[00:21:47] which, if we want the situation to change,
[00:21:51] this system must change completely, meaning
[00:21:55] an independent judiciary where
[00:21:59] judges, instead of reporting to political
[00:22:02] leaders, should report to the people, they should
[00:22:05] think about justice, they should be able
[00:22:09] to, as mentioned in the program, they should be able
[00:22:12] to hold government agencies accountable. This
[00:22:16] is the job of the judicial system, but here,
[00:22:18] on the contrary, the only thing they do is
[00:22:22] to teach a lesson to the young people of Iran who went to the streets.
[00:22:26] And in this case that you mentioned, you see, they arrested
[00:22:29] these people. Now, some of them might have been present
[00:22:33] there, some of them worked there, but it doesn't matter
[00:22:36] who they are. Usually, they are people
[00:22:39] who are usually among the weaker
[00:22:42] strata of society. These people must
[00:22:46] set an example for the people through execution. And most
[00:22:50] of the executions that have happened are in this way. Thank you,
[00:22:53] Mahmoud Amiry-Moghaddam, Director of Iran Human Rights
[00:22:57] Organization, from Oslo, the capital of Norway. The US President
[00:23:01] has said that Ukraine needs a new president to end the war
[00:23:05] with Russia. He accused Volodymyr Zelensky of deliberately
[00:23:08] fueling the continuation of the war and ignoring
[00:23:12] US requests to stop attacks on Russian refineries
[00:23:16] and oil facilities. More, Mr. Zelensky described
[00:23:20] the US decision to suspend part of the sanctions on Russian
[00:23:23] diesel exports as weak and a gift to Vladimir Putin. European
[00:23:27] allies of Ukraine also supported Mr. Zelensky's position.
[00:23:31] Donald Trump, in defense of his decision, said: This agreement
[00:23:34] helps reduce the price of diesel, which has significantly
[00:23:38] increased since the beginning of the war with Iran. Siavash Ardalan reports.
[00:23:41] The US midterm elections are approaching. The price of
[00:23:45] gas, which is the backbone of American agriculture
[00:23:48] and transportation, has risen so high that it has taken
[00:23:52] away sleep from the Republican Party. Donald
[00:23:54] Trump is trying every possible way to control
[00:23:58] the price of gas, including through the Kremlin.
[00:24:01] He victoriously announced to American
[00:24:05] voters an agreement to receive gas from
[00:24:08] Russia. Also, today,
[00:24:11] Russia agreed to sell us millions of barrels of gas,
[00:24:15] which we desperately need right now. Thank you very much.
[00:24:17] Russia is to be partially exempted
[00:24:21] from US sanctions so that it can sell some of its gas.
[00:24:24] This comes at a time when a delegation from the US
[00:24:28] Congress is in Ukraine to assure the government
[00:24:31] of that country that it should not doubt American support.
[00:24:34] We would like our visit
[00:24:37] to be a sign of our strong support in the Senate
[00:24:40] and the House of Representatives for Ukraine. Voices that
[00:24:44] were stifled by the announcement of buying gas from Russia.
[00:24:47] Volodymyr Zelensky, the President of Ukraine,
[00:24:51] says this is a gift to Vladimir Putin. Exactly what
[00:24:55] kind of gift? What does America give to Russia
[00:24:58] in exchange for ignoring its own sanctions?
[00:25:01] The Russian government has preferred not to say anything
[00:25:03] for now.
[00:25:06] I said what I wanted to say. The American
[00:25:09] side will provide more explanations itself. So far,
[00:25:13] no details of this transaction have been released by the US
[00:25:16] or Donald Trump. He only said an hour ago: Ukraine
[00:25:20] must find a new president for itself. But he
[00:25:24] has shown how far he will go to control
[00:25:27] the consequences of the war with Iran and the Strait of Hormuz crisis
[00:25:31] and ensure his party's victory in the elections. Whether
[00:25:35] it's an agreement with Europe to release some of its diesel reserves,
[00:25:38] or a promise to give 5,000 dollars to American
[00:25:42] voters, or this promise that there will be no conflict
[00:25:46] with Iran before the election, his agreement with Russia
[00:25:49] comes at a heavy price, according to those
[00:25:53] who are upset by this move by Donald Trump,
[00:25:55] including in the US Congress, which had just approved
[00:25:59] new sanctions against Russia last week.
[00:26:02] Every barrel of oil that Russia cannot sell, every dollar
[00:26:06] that Russia does not make, makes its job of killing
[00:26:09] Ukrainian civilians harder. These
[00:26:12] are the results of Russia's attack on Ukraine today.
[00:26:15] Russia's war machine has not stopped.
[00:26:18] The Ukrainian government is distressed and worried,
[00:26:22] the US Congress is stunned, the Strait of Hormuz
[00:26:25] remains insecure, and American voters are
[00:26:29] waiting for a drop in gas prices. Analysts have said
[00:26:33] that the amount of diesel that Russia is supposed
[00:26:37] to sell to the rest of the world in this agreement is so small
[00:26:40] that it does not exceed a few days of domestic
[00:26:43] diesel consumption in the US. Perhaps the US-Russia agreement
[00:26:46] will ultimately turn out to be an agreement that not only
[00:26:49] does not reduce gas prices, but also incurs a heavy
[00:26:53] political cost for Donald Trump and the Republican Party.
[00:26:57] Siavash Ardalan, BBC. Marinous Pourziai,
[00:27:00] our reporter from Washington, is with the program.
[00:27:03] Marinous, it was mentioned that just a few days ago, a delegation
[00:27:07] from the US Congress was in Kyiv. They said that we will help
[00:27:11] Ukraine, but now Mr. Trump says that Zelensky
[00:27:14] should step aside and a new president
[00:27:17] should come so that he can make an agreement with Russia.
[00:27:21] Jamal, it seems that Mr. Trump
[00:27:24] is getting used to changing governments to achieve his goals,
[00:27:28] and after Venezuela and after
[00:27:31] Iran, where he has not yet reached
[00:27:35] his goal regarding Iran, he thinks that by removing
[00:27:38] leaders, by eliminating leaders,
[00:27:41] he can implement the policy he wants
[00:27:44] in that particular country. In Ukraine,
[00:27:48] we are now hearing that after the announcement
[00:27:51] of the agreement he made with Russia, and the dissatisfaction
[00:27:54] and criticism that is strongly seen in Europe
[00:27:58] and among Democrats, and also among some Republicans,
[00:28:03] he has turned this criticism into the main issue,
[00:28:07] which is the leadership of Ukraine, and not in America.
[00:28:11] And on the other hand, according to what I heard
[00:28:14] Mr. Trump say today, it seems
[00:28:18] He came and said that
[00:28:21] the issue of gas in Iran is due to the attacks
[00:28:25] of Ukraine on Russian refineries, and
[00:28:29] whatever America told Ukraine to do any attack you want,
[00:28:32] but do not damage Russian refineries,
[00:28:35] but Mr. Zelensky did not agree
[00:28:39] to listen to these words, according to Mr. Trump, and it caused
[00:28:42] American farmers to suffer from the increase in diesel prices.
[00:28:46] That is, the case of the Iran war and its impact
[00:28:50] on the fuel, energy and gas market in
[00:28:53] America, which has led to a high level of dissatisfaction among voters,
[00:28:57] is being put aside and all
[00:29:00] the blame is being placed on
[00:29:32] like Nebraska, there was a lot of pressure on Mr. Trump,
[00:29:36] and the
[00:29:39] issue of freeing up diesel reserves in
[00:29:42] Europe also came from there. Republicans here had told Mr.
[00:29:46] Trump to stop diesel exports like Russia,
[00:29:49] which Mr. Trump has not yet done.
[00:29:53] Many economists say this will be to the detriment of the country's
[00:29:56] and the world's economy, and now he has gone
[00:30:00] to negotiate a diesel agreement with Russia,
[00:30:03] but the reaction we see from serious
[00:30:07] Republican figures like even the representative
[00:30:10] Senator of Nebraska currently is that this
[00:30:13] response, i.e., an agreement with Russia, is a wrong response to
[00:30:17] the diesel problem in America, and if Mr.
[00:30:19] Trump wants to solve the fuel issue
[00:30:23] with Russia, it should be after the end of the Ukraine
[00:30:27] war, and he should not strengthen
[00:30:30] the Ukraine-Russia war machine with this action. This is the position we
[00:30:34] are hearing from Mr. Trump's party members. Manouchehr Pourzayai,
[00:30:38] our correspondent in Washington, thank you.
[00:30:39] Oleksiy
[00:30:43] Goncharenko, Ukrainian parliament member and head of the Migration
[00:30:46] and Refugee Committee in the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council
[00:30:49] of Europe, is with us from Ukraine. Welcome to the program, Mr.
[00:30:53] Goncharenko. First, I wanted to ask you about
[00:30:57] the