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20261102 083000 UTC
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[00:00:39] of و
[00:00:40] of حالا در تلویزیون فارسی بی بی سی
[00:00:43] مستند.
[00:00:51] of I have experienced a fair amount
[00:00:53] of the danger of Israel. I've been there when bombs have
[00:00:57] gone off, I've been there when a wedding was blown up, I've been there.
[00:01:01] uh in the aftermath of a bus explosion, and I've
[00:01:03] على seen some really ugly things. I've
[00:01:07] never ever seen
[00:01:09] هذا a rampage as
[00:01:12] brutal and
[00:01:13] horrendous.
[00:01:17] October 7th has defined a new
[00:01:21] set of traumatic hurdles that have to be
[00:01:25] overcome in order to find a way
[00:01:26] forward. Seventh
[00:01:30] attacks and the devastating war they sparked in Gaza have
[00:01:34] brutally reopened scars from decades of
[00:01:36] conflict. The Bible says that there is a
[00:01:40] time for peace and a time for war. This is a time
[00:01:44] for war. In this episode, Donald Trump in his first term
[00:01:48] as president, tries to make peace his way. He wanted President
[00:01:52] Abbas to be in the crime scene,
[00:01:55] of both as victim and a witness. I had to ask, what do we do
[00:01:59] about Gaza? the answer that I got, sh,
[00:02:02] don't talk about Gaza or Hamas, the
[00:02:06] whole Middle East changes and Netanyahu presents his new
[00:02:10] Middle East, eraser of Palestine, eraser
[00:02:13] of the Palestinian people, then the 7th
[00:02:17] of October, believe me,
[00:02:20] of if I was 20 years younger, I would have picked up an M16 and gone down to
[00:02:23] Gaza
[00:02:24] myself.
[00:02:43] مع In July
[00:02:46] 2014, Israel launched a major aerial bombardment of
[00:02:50] Gaza after series of Hamas
[00:02:52] لا rocket
[00:02:53] attacks.
[00:02:57] Then they discovered her mass
[00:02:59] of militants entering.
[00:03:00] of
[00:03:05] of
[00:03:31] With of the threat of another war ever present,
[00:03:34] من Hamas decided it was time to try a bit of
[00:03:37] diplomacy. I got messages
[00:03:41] back through various people that Hamas wanted to write
[00:03:43] me a
[00:03:44] في letter and set out um,
[00:03:48] potentially a change of position for them. Uh, I was in
[00:03:52] favor of encouraging that, and
[00:03:54] في whereas لا I understood the narrative from the
[00:03:56] of Israeli side very well, it was important to hear from all sides of
[00:04:00] Palestinian politics, to me, you get to the stage where you
[00:04:03] need to actually sit with the people and look them in the
[00:04:06] لا face and have that conversation direct with them.
[00:04:10] former prime minister Tony Blair was the
[00:04:12] من representative
[00:04:12] of the quartet, a group set up by the UN,
[00:04:16] EU, America and Russia to
[00:04:19] of mediate Middle East peace
[00:04:20] في talks. He traveled to
[00:04:24] Qatar to meet the head of Hamas Khalid
[00:04:26] Michel.
[00:04:28] لا I said to Khalid Michel.
[00:04:30] you got
[00:04:30] to stop activity that's going to give the Israelies the sense that you're
[00:04:34] still utterly hostile to them, so the building
[00:04:37] of the tunnels is hard to see what the purpose of that is, unless it's to be
[00:04:41] used for something that's aimed at the Israelis. حق المقاومه
[00:04:44] لماذا قال لانه انفاق من داخل غزه
[00:04:47] الى الى ارض اسرائيل
[00:04:50] of قلت له اولا هي ارضنا فلسطين لماذا يطلب من
[00:04:54] حماس ان تتخلى عن الانفاق وهي وحده هو
[00:04:58] متقدم علينا عسكريا. انا مطلوب من حماس تتخلى عن
[00:05:02] سلاحها وعن الانفاق طيب واسرائيل هل
[00:05:07] of في المقابل اسرائيل مستعده ان تتخلى عن سلاحها الجوي
[00:05:11] of مثلا but if you want to get to different place,
[00:05:15] you've at least got to state a broad
[00:05:19] outline of your position that allows us to
[00:05:23] say, well, you should be part of this negotiation, because you're now prepared to
[00:05:26] accept what we're negotiating
[00:05:29] for.
[00:05:36] less than year later, the Israeli military uncovered a new
[00:05:40] tunnel, more than 40 meters deep. going under the Gaza
[00:05:43] border into Israeli territory, people
[00:05:47] became really, really obsessed with the tunnels and
[00:05:50] there was a lot of thought around how to neutralize the tunnels. there was
[00:05:54] 14 cabinet meetings about the tunnels, i know because i
[00:05:57] prepared those paper, 14 meetings that the
[00:06:01] cabinet talked about the problem the
[00:06:04] tunnels. ישראל תמשיך לפעול ככל
[00:06:08] שידרש לגילוי ולסיכול אייום המנהרות
[00:06:11] בדרום.
[00:06:12] everybody
[00:06:34] were
[00:06:35] very enthusiastic about it, i was
[00:06:38] exception, they said this is this is not a
[00:06:42] main problem is Gaza, the main threat is a massive
[00:06:46] eruption, massive gorilla campaign from
[00:06:49] Gaza into Israel, and they don't need the tunnels for this. You've all
[00:06:53] definitely highlighted if we invest, if we
[00:06:57] overinvest in detect in technology that helps us detect things
[00:07:00] underground, they're just going to come above the
[00:07:04] ground, but the vast majority the
[00:07:07] security establishment viewed the tunnels as the
[00:07:11] enemy, and that's what... The security cabinet
[00:07:13] approved. The barrier
[00:07:17] would take four years to be built. The government cut the
[00:07:21] budgets of health, education and even security to fund
[00:07:24] it.
[00:07:36] The Israelis had even more reason to feel that their security was well looked
[00:07:39] after. They had new ally. the new
[00:07:43] American president, one whom the Israeli prime minister counted as
[00:07:47] family
[00:07:47] friend.
[00:07:53] Donald Trump came to office promising that he would quickly succeed
[00:07:57] where his predecessors had
[00:07:59] failed. So
[00:08:02] President Trump is deal junky, right? I worked for him for 20 years,
[00:08:06] I've never seen anybody like him. He's always heard in his life
[00:08:10] that the Israeli Palestinian conflict. the sort the holy grail if you will of
[00:08:14] deals, although many people cautioned him it was not
[00:08:18] achievable, he didn't want to hear it, he wanted to try to do it
[00:08:21] his
[00:08:22] way,
[00:08:26] so I'm looking at two state and one state and I
[00:08:29] like the one that both parties like, I'm very happy
[00:08:33] with the one that both parties like, Trump was unexpected, no one
[00:08:37] thought you will talk about two state, one state, let's let's
[00:08:41] solve it, let's let's do business, this is always,
[00:08:45] let's do business, why to go to bother with all the details?
[00:08:49] that's president Trump's way of saying, let's figure it out, whatever
[00:08:53] it's going to be, the parties have to do it, they have to do it
[00:08:56] together.
[00:09:01] if Trump was to get his deal, he'd have to convince Mahmoud
[00:09:05] Abbas, the man recognized by the international community
[00:09:09] as the president of all Palestinians.
[00:09:14] President Trump really made sure to make President Abbas
[00:09:18] feel welcomed, usually president stop few meters away until a
[00:09:22] marine comes and opens, no president Trump charged
[00:09:25] towards President Abbas, I was still sitting in the car, so
[00:09:29] I was looking at the face and the the body language of President
[00:09:33] Trump and I could see how much he was trying to
[00:09:36] welcome extraordinary way, welcome President
[00:09:39] Abbas, we're going to have lunch, we're going... to have discussions and
[00:09:43] hopefully something terrific can come out between the
[00:09:47] Palestinians and Israel. Thank you for being here. Thank
[00:09:51] you. President Abbas played his part very, very well. He was warm, he
[00:09:55] was friendly. President Trump I think almost viewed him as a
[00:09:58] statesman, a grandfather figure almost. President
[00:10:02] Abbas presented our logic, our
[00:10:06] vision, which is two states, a state of Palestine, a state of Israel
[00:10:10] that is secured with good neighbor. relationship with
[00:10:13] its neighbors, and I remember President Abbas, he showed President
[00:10:17] Trump all the countries that would recognize Israel, and after all that
[00:10:21] discussion, he invited the two delegations to lunch.
[00:10:25] of what and he looks at us, guys,
[00:10:28] guys, you have a great president, you have a great
[00:10:32] president, you have a
[00:10:36] great president, i could not believe
[00:10:37] what i heard from him, i think you gna make peace, i think things will be
[00:10:40] okay, chief negotiator
[00:10:44] had accompanied palestinian presidents to the white house for more than
[00:10:48] two decades, this is the last
[00:10:52] interview he gave, he was in poor. and
[00:10:56] died only weeks later, he said, i
[00:10:59] will give you year with the israelis, i
[00:11:03] will not do anything that may preempt or prejudge issues for per
[00:11:07] negotiation, but after year i will see the side that's putting
[00:11:10] obstacles and
[00:11:12] then i will take action, he was paying so much money
[00:11:15] to this region and i'm not going to pay those who are obstructing
[00:11:19] the peace
[00:11:19] process,
[00:11:25] فخامه الرئيس بانكم قادرون
[00:11:28] النجاح لان لديكم الاراده
[00:11:32] والرغبه في
[00:11:34] النجاح.
[00:11:41] To deliver his deal, Trump set up a small team in the white
[00:11:44] house headed by his son-in-law, Jared
[00:11:47] Krishna. Shard's view very much
[00:11:51] was go study this, what are the issues? What have been the parties?
[00:11:55] positions over the years, I'm learning from
[00:11:58] everybody, state department, national security council, think tanks,
[00:12:02] it wasn't that long before I had to ask the important question, which is, okay, let's
[00:12:06] just say we get BB Netanyahu and Mahmed Abbas and
[00:12:10] Donald Trump in the room, and they all agree, what do we do
[00:12:14] about Gaza, the two million Palestinians living in Gaza who are
[00:12:18] subjugated by Hamas, what do we do about Hamas? The answer that I
[00:12:22] got, don't... don't talk about
[00:12:26] Gaza or Hamas, let's just figure out the two-state
[00:12:29] solution and then we'll figure out
[00:12:31] Gaza.
[00:12:37] Hamas hoped the new American president would change
[00:12:39] things. No US
[00:12:42] administration had ever agreed to talk to the group which had called for the
[00:12:46] destruction of Israel and the creation of an Islamic Palestinian
[00:12:50] state.
[00:12:55] ترامب قد لا يتحكم
[00:12:59] في طريقه عمله السياسي هو عنده مفاجات
[00:13:03] قد يكون عنده جراه اكثر من غيره فقد يقدم على
[00:13:07] خطوه تنسجم المنطق مع منطق
[00:13:09] الصراع.
[00:13:19] Qatar arranged a press conference to announce it had rewritten its
[00:13:23] founding charter. The original
[00:13:27] document had been widely condemned for using anti-semitic
[00:13:30] language.
[00:13:43] The press conference was broadcast live into Gaza where Hamas's
[00:13:47] top brass had gathered. The new local
[00:13:50] leader, Yahya Sinwa, brought his son to
[00:13:53] watch. حماس منفتحه
[00:13:57] وستتعاون وهي جزء الحل وليس
[00:14:00] جزءا من المشكله نحن كحركه حماس
[00:14:04] نحن لا نعادي اليهود
[00:14:07] لانهم يهود نحن نعادي
[00:14:11] المحتلين الذين احتلوا ارضنا وشردوا
[00:14:15] شعبنا حماس تمانع من قيام دوله
[00:14:17] فلسطينيه الضفت الغربيه وقطاع
[00:14:21] غزه على كامل حدود عام 67.
[00:14:25] "the 1967 borders was diplomatic shorthand for
[00:14:29] two-state solution. It could imply that Hamas was ready to
[00:14:33] move in this direction, but the document made clear that
[00:14:37] they were still committed to armed resistance and would not recognize
[00:14:41] اسرائيل. طبعا رد
[00:14:44] الفعل الاول كان من قبل الاحتلال فيما اذكر واللي عبر
[00:14:48] عن يعني رفضه واستياءه لهذا المؤتمر
[00:14:52] وانه هذه الوثيقه تغير شيئا. "there is not
[00:14:55] a distinguish between the military wing and
[00:14:59] the political wing. there is moderate and not moderate in
[00:15:03] terrorist organization, and they can speak very nice in the
[00:15:07] tv and things like that, but basically at night they preparing missils to
[00:15:11] penetrate
[00:15:11] Israel.
[00:15:20] trump ignored the hamas relaunch, he remained intent
[00:15:24] a..." peace deal between Netanyahu and Abbas and decided that
[00:15:28] his first foreign trip would be to the Middle
[00:15:30] East.
[00:15:37] Only hours after his arrival in Israel, Trump visited one the most
[00:15:41] sacred sites for Jews in occupied East Jerusalem, which
[00:15:45] Palestinians claimed as their capital a future
[00:15:48] state. The western wall
[00:15:51] was very controversial place. You now, there had never been a
[00:15:55] sitting president who had visited the western
[00:15:58] wall. The visit had been arranged by the new
[00:16:02] US ambassador, David Friedman, Trump's lawyer and personal
[00:16:05] friend. was also a fervent supporter of Israel
[00:16:09] and believe that all of Jerusalem should be his capital. we
[00:16:13] insisted, they said, look, this war, this is the story the Jewish people, and it's the
[00:16:17] story of Israel. if he's going to go anywhere, he's going to go to the western
[00:16:20] wall.
[00:16:26] president Trump understood that something like that
[00:16:30] visual can communicate more than any speech could possibly
[00:16:34] give, that this is a president who is committed. uh to Israel
[00:16:38] and doing something important for the
[00:16:39] country. The Palestinian
[00:16:43] government wasn't unduly worried. They believed
[00:16:47] Trump had promised that the status of Jerusalem would only be settled
[00:16:51] in the deal they were
[00:16:52] negotiating.
[00:16:57] Six months later, this would be put to the test. During
[00:17:01] President Clinton's presidency, the Congress passed a law
[00:17:05] requiring the president. to move the American
[00:17:08] embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, but they
[00:17:12] also allowed every president to sign
[00:17:16] waver that would allow him not to move
[00:17:20] it, and every president since President Clinton signed the
[00:17:23] waver. On the campaign trail, Trump
[00:17:27] had promised to change this and recognize Jerusalem as the capital of
[00:17:31] Israel. With the deadline to sign the
[00:17:34] waver coming up, David Friedmann was deter. to make the president
[00:17:38] keep his promise, to me, moving the embassy was
[00:17:42] the most important thing, there are a lot of people in the uh state
[00:17:46] department and the defense department who were against it, so chief of
[00:17:50] staff said
[00:17:50] to me, look, if you want this done, you better stick around, because no one else is going
[00:17:54] to fight for this the way you will. less than a week before
[00:17:58] the deadline, trump called a meeting in the white house situation
[00:18:01] room. i'll tell you candy, was a little bit
[00:18:05] nervous because i am making a case
[00:18:09] that is um rife with national security issues. there were
[00:18:13] number of warnings that there would be uprisings and
[00:18:17] capitals all over uh the Arab world and
[00:18:20] that it could also lead to our embassies uh
[00:18:24] being stormed and diplomats being taken hostage. and
[00:18:28] the president said to me, David, how do you read the
[00:18:31] situation? and I said to him, Mr. President, why wouldn't you keep
[00:18:35] this promise because the threats? of who? the Palestinians,
[00:18:39] Islamic Jihad? And I said the whole world is watching. All the
[00:18:43] countries that are trying to size you up to see do you
[00:18:46] have the courage of your convictions, they're going to see that you do
[00:18:50] because of this move. President Trump of course felt the need to let President
[00:18:54] Abbas know why he was moving the embassy and how it wasn't going in
[00:18:58] his mind to stop our efforts to try to achieve
[00:19:01] peace. So they got President Abbas on the phone. He
[00:19:05] told him it's it's gonna happen, but It's not going to affect your
[00:19:08] position, it's not going to affect your rights, it's not going to affect anything. I said,
[00:19:12] how, if you gonna recognize Jerusalem
[00:19:15] capital, how it's not gonna affect this is a preempting, I have an
[00:19:19] agreement with you, you told me that you will not take any action, Mr.
[00:19:22] President, President Abbas told President Trump, you you
[00:19:26] promised us not to do it, and if you do it, I
[00:19:30] cannot, but disengage. We were all listening in on different extensions, I
[00:19:34] think I was in the national security advisor's office, but the line went dead. and
[00:19:37] it it seems there were issues with the line and our president was not really interested
[00:19:41] to hear all the you know, wait with me, I'm going to give you
[00:19:45] much more than what I gave Israel, and I remember hearing President Trump saying, hello,
[00:19:49] Mahmoud, hello, and nothing, but I remember
[00:19:53] thinking, did President Abbas hang up on the President the United
[00:19:57] States? President Abbas
[00:20:01] immediately instructed us not to have any contact with the
[00:20:04] US administration until further.
[00:20:07] instruction
[00:20:19] after the president announced that we are moving the embassy to
[00:20:22] Jerusalem, Arab leaders around the
[00:20:25] region had prepared for the worst, but
[00:20:29] then in fact nothing happened, there were no uprisings
[00:20:33] or chaos or violence or bloodshed,
[00:20:36] and That was an indication to us that new
[00:20:40] Middle East was coming into existence, and it was a Middle East that
[00:20:44] was tired the old conflict between Arab Nations and
[00:20:48] Israel.
[00:21:21] For weeks, Palestinians had been demonstrating in what they called the Great
[00:21:25] March of Return. This was to remind the
[00:21:29] world that millions their people had been made refugees through decades
[00:21:33] of conflict. They were also protesting against
[00:21:37] Israel's bloccade of Gaza that was suffocating its
[00:21:39] economy. The
[00:21:43] humanitarian crisis was compounded by the Palestinian authority,
[00:21:47] restricting the money it supplied for salaries and election.
[00:22:08] غزه مليون تخصيص دولار
[00:22:08] الى منحه
[00:22:10] شهري. تصل قطريه 20 شهريه
[00:22:11] الى قطاع
[00:23:32] وهو كمان اسهل
[00:23:35] عليه في اقناع
[00:23:37] العالم انه ابو
[00:23:40] مازن يستطيع ان يكون شريك
[00:23:44] له لانه في انقسام
[00:23:47] سياسي.
[00:23:54] With the help the money coming in from Qatar, Hamas was building his
[00:23:58] popularity with the people of
[00:23:59] Gaza, and they were getting support
[00:24:03] on the military front from another very powerful
[00:24:06] ally.
[00:24:11] The supreme leader of Iran, Ayatollah Kamani,
[00:24:15] invited top-level delegation of Hamas to
[00:24:18] Tehran. اللقاء
[00:24:22] يعطي اشاره واضحه على متانه العلاقه ما
[00:24:25] بيننا وبين الجمهوريه الاسلاميه
[00:24:28] الايررانيه حينما
[00:24:31] تحدثنا عن حاجتنا الى امر محدد المقاومه في قطاع
[00:24:35] غزه يعني غير متوفر لنا وهو يشكل بعدا
[00:24:39] نوعيا في مواجهه قوات الاحتلال
[00:24:43] وكان يحضرها ايضا قاسم سليماني رحمه
[00:24:46] الله
[00:25:21] In the years ahead, when Hamas needed military support, its leaders knew
[00:25:25] they could count on
[00:25:26] Teran.
[00:25:30] لذلك دائما هذه الزيارات تكون ناجحه
[00:25:33] وذات نتائج ملموسه
[00:25:36] ومتقدمه
[00:25:37] ومباشره.
[00:25:46] It had been three years since Trump had promised a peace deal. between the
[00:25:50] Palestinians and
[00:25:51] Israel.
[00:25:54] Now, with America entering an election year, the president
[00:25:58] decided to announce what he called the deal the century.
[00:26:06] 'a top Israeli delegation flew in, but there were no
[00:26:10] Palestinians insight. Today Israel takes a
[00:26:14] big step towards
[00:26:16] peace.
[00:26:21] My vision presents a win-win opportunity for both
[00:26:25] sides, realistic two-state solution that
[00:26:28] resolves the risk of Palestinian statehood.'
[00:26:33] to Israel's security. Israel is light
[00:26:36] onto the world. the document claimed the Palestinians would be
[00:26:40] able to achieve an independent state, but only under stringent
[00:26:44] conditions. it confirmed that Jerusalem would remain
[00:26:48] Israel's undivided capital. they want peace and they want peace
[00:26:51] badly. it also talked about bringing major international investment
[00:26:55] into the west bank and
[00:26:56] gaza.
[00:27:01] i want on television as did the rest of my
[00:27:05] colleagues, and it unfolded, I think
[00:27:09] exactly as we anticipated that
[00:27:13] it was the American president delivering to
[00:27:16] the Israeli prime minister. I saw Netanyahu in every word and
[00:27:20] every letter, I was just seeing Netanyahu's face popping out, peace
[00:27:24] for peace, economic peace, there was nothing in it about
[00:27:28] rights, not once, nothing, Israel shall have...
[00:27:32] have an overall security control over the entire
[00:27:36] territory of Historic Palestine from the river to the
[00:27:39] sea in exchange, we will just give
[00:27:42] Palestinians some cash, that's that's his his his
[00:27:46] logic, and therefore our
[00:27:50] main assessment and decision was
[00:27:53] just to reject it out
[00:27:55] right, was an advisor on the Trump peace
[00:27:59] plan, as a plan that um had
[00:28:03] the probably the best success, best chances of success that
[00:28:07] I'd seen. By the way, it was the only peace
[00:28:11] plan in which Israel accepted the idea of territorial
[00:28:15] swaps. swapping territory was key part of Trump's
[00:28:19] plan. Israel would get 30% the west
[00:28:22] bank, in exchange, the Palestinians would receive a
[00:28:26] comparable amount of land in the Israeli desert far from the west
[00:28:30] bank.
[00:28:31] the human
[00:28:31] soul and the human spirit.
[00:29:04] Israel will apply its laws to the Jordan Valley, to all the Jewish
[00:29:08] communities in Judea and Samaria, and to other areas
[00:29:12] that your plan designates as part of Israel, and which the United
[00:29:16] States has agreed to recognize as part of
[00:29:19] Israel.
[00:29:25] I like that. President Trump was
[00:29:29] surprised with the substance, and by the
[00:29:33] tone the speech, which was far more about
[00:29:36] um, the sovereignty than about peace. this decision will protect Israel's
[00:29:40] security, ensure Israel's national interests, if Israel
[00:29:44] annex land without negotiating, it could kill off any
[00:29:48] possibility of two-state
[00:29:49] solution. president
[00:29:53] abbas needed his allies to stand with him
[00:29:55] publicly. he requested emergency meeting
[00:29:59] the arab league.
[00:30:07] ان هذه السيناريوهات تجلب استقرارا او تقيم
[00:30:11] سلاما بل تضع بذور 100 عام اخرى
[00:30:15] الصراع والمعاناه هي
[00:30:19] فلسطين هي بال 47 هي
[00:30:23] ال 48 هي
[00:30:26] هي
[00:30:27] اللي هي 22% مع
[00:30:30] غزه.
[00:30:42] Netanyahu's plans for the west bank would you to take effect at the start of
[00:30:46] July?
[00:30:50] Only few days before the deadline, the ambassador of one the Gulf's most
[00:30:54] important states made an unexpected
[00:30:56] move towards the
[00:31:00] very end of June Yusuf.