CANALALGERIE — La chaine publique algerienne
20260811 050000 UTC
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[00:00:00] and the ruler,
[00:00:02] Goodbye. Al-Hajj Bay go to the doctor, but she didn't
[00:00:05] the truth in Akhmoukh. Mujahid Bay
[00:00:08] Akhmoukh and his brother Al-Hajj
[00:00:10] we can do initiatives in Musa
[00:00:12] AI, in the environment, in Akhmoukh took a firm stance against the
[00:00:15] this suffering won't be colonial policy do anything, just don't during their visit
[00:00:18] You've never been to to Paris
[00:00:20] the truth in on July 14, 1961,
[00:00:21] 1961
[00:00:25] So for this first part of supporting
[00:00:26] no longer the only one, there are several now in the the full independence of Algeria
[00:00:28] is God's inch by inch. They considered that
[00:00:32] I beg you, don't the Sahara is an inseparable part of
[00:00:37] Therefore, this Algeria.
[00:00:40] The man countered three French attempts, two
[00:00:43] of which involved sending an envoy to the Hoggar region,
[00:00:47] and the third time he traveled to Paris and rejected
[00:00:49] the
[00:00:52] Bouzeriba who is a specialist in French ready to implement this project of separating the Sahara.
[00:00:57] this is true, I His answer was, "I am Algerian.
[00:01:04] I beg you, don't And nothing applies to me except
[00:01:06] researchers from what applies to every Algerian. I reject
[00:01:09] the king and the crown,
[00:01:17] service saves you comfortable today. Can you drop me off at and I will not divide Algeria. hunting, okay, from I will remain for the first time in Algerian, and I will endure what all the Algerian
[00:01:22] Oh, look, the brother came at people endure."
[00:01:28] No, no, it's okay. I'll go to
[00:01:33] Our soldiers were standing But we have to go back to tall, holding
[00:01:38] objects and the on
[00:01:42] and continue this adventure of until
[00:01:45] the soldiers sat down. Ahmed
[00:01:48] Tahali called the soldier to lower
[00:01:51] the flag. The crowd
[00:01:56] a biosphere reserve means for the President of the Republic Award in Taraki was large, first at the lowering
[00:02:00] of the
[00:02:01] And any decree that comes French flag and the end
[00:02:04] of the French
[00:02:05] For more information and to view presence, with and and uh the state's the ululations
[00:02:08] of the women and the firing
[00:02:11] not only in terms
[00:02:11] scientific, and translation works of shots. The national flag was raised
[00:02:15] in
[00:02:17] zone of Tamanrasset, to become, or
[00:02:20] to declare full independence in this
[00:02:26] customs. The No, you can't. Don't region.
[00:02:27] then I and Oh colonizer, you have misread the desert.
[00:02:34] from Its silence is not
[00:02:34] when Ulysses asked his crew to submission, and its vastness is not
[00:02:37] emptiness. We carry in our hearts
[00:02:40] a history that your maps do not see. Every
[00:02:44] displayed on dune here knows the footsteps
[00:02:47] problems, sister. Don't willing. Don't of its people and rejects the footsteps
[00:02:51] you'll come up with. I apologize, but of intruders. This land does not accept a stranger
[00:02:55] as its master.
[00:03:04] The lover's medicine The valiant popular resistance,
[00:03:07] its arms and you were facing the tenacious political struggle, and the victorious
[00:03:09] to save liberation revolution territory, culminated on
[00:03:12] July 5,
[00:03:14] gendarmerie, 1962, a holiday
[00:03:17] for Algerians of dignity
[00:03:19] and sacrifice, crowned by the restoration
[00:03:23] And she needs to come with us to of national sovereignty by force from
[00:03:26] enthusiasm around a brutal occupation that lasted more than a century and a half. The people wrote a new
[00:03:31] chapter of freedom and sovereignty
[00:03:34] and the building
[00:03:35] a while ago. She left early of the
[00:03:38] until the end of state.
[00:03:50] official website of the Ministry
[00:03:58] here. Where did she go this of course. She'll be back in a
[00:04:09] m we call
[00:04:14] does not date from yesterday, it is the
[00:04:23] Jannar, but at No.
[00:04:27] My daughter, don't
[00:04:34] sick person? He's from
[00:05:06] We suffered
[00:05:07] Open your eyes, open your eyes, I beg you. I swear I didn't see her fall to
[00:05:08] Don't say he's not my brother. Development of Fisheries and
[00:05:10] to eat a couple of bites and go because I'm late for
[00:05:11] work. Don't
[00:06:13] Under the high patronage of the President of the Republic, Mr. Abdelmadjid
[00:06:17] Tebboune, and under the supervision of the High Commission
[00:06:20] for Amazighity, and in partnership with the Ministry of Mujahideen and Rights Holders,
[00:06:24] and the Wilaya of Bejaia,
[00:06:26] and in coordination with the National Committee for Memory
[00:06:29] and History and the General Directorate of the National
[00:06:32] Archives, on the 70th anniversary of the Soummam
[00:06:35] Congress, the International Scientific Forum "Culture of Resistance
[00:06:39] between History, Memory and Imagination"
[00:06:43] will be held on August 18, 19
[00:06:47] and 20, 2026, in
[00:06:50] Bejaia, where history extends into the pulse of the city,
[00:06:53] and memory transforms into a living cultural act
[00:06:56] that combines knowledge and art
[00:06:59] and consecrates the unity of Algeria in its
[00:07:02] diversity.
[00:07:08] The culture of resistance between history, memory
[00:07:11] and imagination. A memory that illuminates the path
[00:07:15] and an identity that unites the nation.
[00:07:53] Hello, welcome to you, as you can see, we are in Chelchell, we came
[00:07:57] to meet a child of the city, but also a precious
[00:08:00] witness to what the sea protects at our doors, it is
[00:08:04] Nazim Ben Saleh, an archaeologist specializing in
[00:08:07] underwater
[00:08:08] heritage.
[00:10:04] thank you very much for having us at your place in your
[00:10:07] city of Chelchell the Mauritania of Caesarea
[00:10:10] a city plan.
[00:10:21] to be born in its arms and in its history, to also contribute to its
[00:10:24] history. This is Cherchell, an extraordinary city
[00:10:28] that, it was this city that gave me this this
[00:10:32] inspiration
[00:10:34] and this passion which is archaeology and also the sea
[00:10:38] uh so I had
[00:10:41] started very young with my
[00:10:44] father to discover what is under the water uh by going to fish
[00:10:48] for sea urchins, fish and so on, so discovering what
[00:10:52] is under the water, all the marine biodiversity and also
[00:10:56] not just in the sea, Chelchell is also a large forest,
[00:11:00] so all the mountains of the Dahra and so on, and
[00:11:03] this discovery of nature also in
[00:11:07] general, which allowed
[00:11:10] me to receive this passion for the
[00:11:13] sea and for archaeology through the different sites that are in the
[00:11:17] city, there is this unbreakable bond, this heritage that you got from your father,
[00:11:20] he is an archaeologist, of course, Abdelkadir ben Salah. You were able to restore
[00:11:24] mosaics, sites also, when I was very young, I used to frequent archaeological
[00:11:28] sites with him during the excavations he organized in the
[00:11:32] 80s, I would mention the excavation, the large
[00:11:35] excavation of the Buffaric site, it's a district located in Cherchell called Bouffaric
[00:11:39] and not the city uh so very young he took me with
[00:11:42] him and I was already frequenting at that time
[00:11:46] uh certain
[00:11:49] people who later became my colleagues so
[00:11:53] already a baby, I must have been 2 years old. when when I started to
[00:11:56] go to the sites with him for the excavations and so on and
[00:12:00] I think that unconsciously it made me want to take over the
[00:12:04] torch in a way
[00:12:07] archaeology, I grew up in a large
[00:12:10] loving, caring family and so on, my
[00:12:14] grandparents with us uh my
[00:12:17] father, my mother so we were really very close, very
[00:12:20] united uh my brother, my sister and there was also the
[00:12:24] large... family so the cousins, uncles, aunts
[00:12:28] and so on, you went to a small school here, so the small school, primary
[00:12:31] school, CEEM, high school before
[00:12:34] joining the University of Algiers 2, I followed
[00:12:38] all my schooling here in Cherchell, from
[00:12:42] primary school to high school uh,
[00:12:45] I did, we'll say, like everyone else, the
[00:12:49] Algerian public school where I was
[00:12:52] very happy in Cherchell because...
[00:12:55] we weren't many already and the teachers
[00:12:59] made us want already at that time to
[00:13:02] look into the history of this city
[00:13:04] uh it was every year we had to go out to the
[00:13:08] archaeological sites, to the museums, go to the forest and so on, we are in an
[00:13:12] ancient city, an eternal city that
[00:13:15] saw the arrival of King
[00:13:18] Juba II, his wife
[00:13:21] Cleopatra, they built a dynasty, they... the
[00:13:25] flourishing city, the Caesarea of Mauritania,
[00:13:29] and you lived in
[00:13:32] the sea. Cherchell has always
[00:13:36] lived through history, its history has never stopped
[00:13:40] uh, even if sometimes
[00:13:43] it, it slowed down the
[00:13:46] pace, but Cherchell which was first
[00:13:49] the capital of Caesarean Mauritania uh with
[00:13:53] Juba II, his wife. then after them their son
[00:13:56] Polemy uh it continued to live
[00:14:00] precisely uh
[00:14:03] antiquity where the pace regressed
[00:14:06] a bit, it still continued to live through
[00:14:10] the transfer, the transfer of
[00:14:13] families who came from Andalusia in
[00:14:15] 1492, so it revived at that
[00:14:19] time and uh through Emir
[00:14:22] Abdelkader with the colonial
[00:14:26] invasion, the Emir came precisely to
[00:14:28] try to reorganize the revolution, the
[00:14:32] revolt against the invader, here in
[00:14:35] Cherchell. When I finished my archaeology studies, I
[00:14:38] went into community work because I felt that I had to give
[00:14:42] something to society, and we had
[00:14:45] created Marinostrom uh an association
[00:14:48] for the protection of the environment and heritage here in
[00:14:51] Cherchell which continues to this day, it
[00:14:55] started in 2010, it continues until
[00:14:58] 2026 and also with many friends so through
[00:15:01] my studies so as I did my schooling in
[00:15:05] Cherchell and also the sports I did in Cherchell allowed
[00:15:09] me to have a network of friends until now, until
[00:15:12] today we will meet this afternoon we will go to the
[00:15:16] center for nautical activities of Chelchell, the nautical base of
[00:15:19] Chelchell we will see you diving for our greatest
[00:15:22] pleasure with great pleasure.
[00:16:16] I remember well the 70s, we were young,
[00:16:20] we ventured to the white rock, there
[00:16:24] was no access, it was wild, we
[00:16:27] dove, we were with a single
[00:16:30] spear gun.
[00:16:33] always long.
[00:17:07] spent more than 2 years, then
[00:17:10] called upon people who
[00:17:14] were interested in these long
[00:17:16] things, there was a I
[00:17:20] forgot his name, Rosh, I know him,
[00:17:23] he changed his
[00:17:27] activity. Then the archaeologists arrived, the association
[00:17:31] of archaeologists, it was
[00:17:33] Mustafa Mouna, Ma'amar Debar, M.
[00:17:38] Benjel, there was a clique uh then they came
[00:17:41] they studied
[00:17:44] the cannons, it was magnificent, so they
[00:17:48] discovered that the cannons dated back to
[00:17:51] 1400 and it was
[00:17:54] it was not a
[00:17:56] battle
[00:17:58] because there was the bottom which was 6-10 meters
[00:18:02] and suddenly the bottom
[00:18:05] rises, it rises, yeah.
[00:18:37] After Marinostrum, Marinostrum, Nazim and his clique
[00:18:41] from the museum of
[00:18:44] ... they came with Jamal, that expedition
[00:18:48] leader, ah what did you
[00:18:52] do with
[00:18:52] the tiles?
[00:19:45] Nazim, I've known him since my
[00:19:47] childhood, more precisely since high school, and
[00:19:51] he's the one who pushed me a bit to do archaeology, so
[00:19:54] it's with him that I started this adventure of archaeology
[00:19:58] initially in general, so terrestrial archaeology and shared
[00:20:02] throughout the years of university
[00:20:06] many moments. Excavations,
[00:20:08] construction sites, trips here in Algeria, inland,
[00:20:12] abroad, and that's it,
[00:20:15] that's a lot of years where, well,
[00:20:18] he gained a lot
[00:20:21] of experience everywhere and that's what left this
[00:20:24] complicity already on land because before doing underwater
[00:20:28] archaeology, he did a lot of terrestrial archaeology and then
[00:20:31] of course euh in the sea or under
[00:20:34] the water uh and it's true that it's very important. that the
[00:20:37] duo must work well
[00:20:40] together underwater, especially with regard to safety.
[00:20:44] I think with Rafic we were.
[00:20:48] among the pioneers in underwater
[00:20:51] archaeology, we started the adventure
[00:20:55] about fifteen years ago when we had just
[00:20:58] finished our studies, we were already in an established
[00:21:01] position and we said to ourselves, since we
[00:21:05] love the sea and we love archaeology, why not
[00:21:08] combine the two and embark on this adventure? The beginnings were not easy,
[00:21:12] yeah, now when we see the progress made, I think
[00:21:16] we have made good progress, quite a lot of progress, Rafic is director.
[00:21:20] of the historical and archaeological studies laboratory of
[00:21:23] Tipaza and uh within this
[00:21:27] laboratory he has the underwater
[00:21:30] archaeology aspect within the center where I work, the CNRA, the national center for
[00:21:34] archaeological research, similarly he launched this
[00:21:37] discipline of underwater archaeology and so we try
[00:21:40] to always work in collaboration between our two institutions
[00:21:44] and also between people uh it's
[00:21:47] important to get along well under water, as he said. and to have
[00:21:50] this complicity in reality uh
[00:21:54] already it's primordial for our safety to work at
[00:21:57] least in pairs uh then we form
[00:22:01] our group, we trained students precisely so
[00:22:04] that they can support us in our
[00:22:06] research uh we also managed
[00:22:10] to send students to train abroad
[00:22:12] uh as I did before
[00:22:15] uh we went several times
[00:22:19] as a group uh I'm talking again about
[00:22:23] training ourselves abroad uh in excavations in
[00:22:27] Greece, we did professional diving
[00:22:30] in France and so on and so that allowed us to
[00:22:34] progress and to advance this
[00:22:37] discipline in Algeria. So, communicating underwater technically
[00:22:40] is done uh by a sign language, if we want, that
[00:22:44] we learn uh through the training we do as
[00:22:48] soon as we start diving, that's it. Apart from sign language
[00:22:52] uh he has with, again, this
[00:22:56] experience and, again, these years spent together, he
[00:22:59] has a certain communication that cannot be explained,
[00:23:03] he always played cards with Nazim, we were partners in card
[00:23:07] games and our friends always told us, "Oh no, no, you're cheating, it's not
[00:23:10] normal that you have this communication."
[00:23:13] Exactly, we played a lot of gouache and our friends told us, "No, no, this
[00:23:17] communication is not normal," and
[00:23:19] sometimes I understand him, I know what he wants and he
[00:23:23] also knows what I want or what I
[00:23:27] need technically with regard to what we have to do under
[00:23:30] water, it's in the eyes, it's in the feeling and that's
[00:23:33] it, under water too we write a lot, meaning we have
[00:23:37] slates with us, submersible tables where we can
[00:23:39] write, so when there's a need to ask Rafi anything,
[00:23:43] I write to him, he answers me in writing, that's
[00:23:47] when it gets complicated, when we find something we
[00:23:50] can't explain and so on, so we communicate in this way, we write
[00:23:54] first, after all that concerns diving, uh
[00:23:58] we have the conventional diving signs used everywhere
[00:24:02] in the world, the hockey, we go up, we go down, we stop the
[00:24:05] dive and so on, and so that's normal in
[00:24:09] addition to this complicity that we both have, or the whole group, the first
[00:24:13] core of underwater archaeologists was
[00:24:16] created in our laboratory, the historical
[00:24:20] archaeological studies laboratory at the University of Tipaza and it is
[00:24:23] here that this laboratory gathers this core
[00:24:26] of underwater archaeology, we are, we are, we are
[00:24:30] six, so from different institutions
[00:24:33] uh Nazim at CENARA, us at the University
[00:24:37] of Tipaza, another colleague from the University of Guelma, other colleagues who were previously
[00:24:40] uh at the maritime museum, so it's all these
[00:24:44] competencies that came together uh uh there in a single
[00:24:48] core and worked on several several common
[00:24:51] projects. Who dives better than who?
[00:24:54] No, so technically there are people who are more competent than
[00:24:57] others, Nazim is very, for example, Nazim, we count on
[00:25:00] him for the aspect of
[00:25:04] preparation, management of dives and
[00:25:08] projects because he already has the experience, the training, the most important thing is that he
[00:25:12] did a specialized master's in coastal and maritime
[00:25:14] archaeology, after which I pushed
[00:25:18] all of this to go
[00:25:21] diving, to do this underwater
[00:25:24] archaeology since I had worked previously
[00:25:27] on this subject for my thesis, but honestly,
[00:25:31] everyone has their areas of expertise and everyone has their
[00:25:34] technical skills in the field.
[00:26:59] Today we questioned the silence of the depths.
[00:27:03] Where the sea still protects what was once our daily life.
[00:27:07] Tomorrow, the tumult of the waves will give way to the nobility of
[00:27:10] marble. There, at the National Museum of Cherchell, we
[00:27:14] find Nazil Ben Salah, here in the heart of his
[00:27:17] history, which merges with the history of Caesarean
[00:27:20] Mauritania to bridge the submerged mysteries
[00:27:24] and the heritage that we have a duty to protect and
[00:27:27] transmit.
[00:27:45] We have already said it, every object, every piece of this
[00:27:49] prestigious museum has a
[00:27:51] story and a story often linked to the history of your family
[00:27:55] or your history, uh,
[00:27:58] indeed, we are in front of this statue of the
[00:28:01] Lion uh. uh which was found on a
[00:28:04] beach next to the gate of Ténès in Cherchell
[00:28:08] uh and which would date from the 1st
[00:28:10] century uh apparently
[00:28:14] and uh this statue so it is linked I would say
[00:28:17] first of all it was my father and his colleague who discovered it
[00:28:21] accidentally on the beach they carried it with their own strength
[00:28:25] precisely to bring it to the museum of Cherchell and today it is
[00:28:29] highlighted so the second thing is that it is an object that
[00:28:32] comes uh
[00:28:36] the from the part the object was
[00:28:39] found underwater so necessarily it has a history with underwater archaeology
[00:28:42] uh that's why we are in front of this object
[00:28:46] today it is highlighted precisely at the
[00:28:49] museum uh to show precisely what it was
[00:28:52] used for uh in the 1st century
[00:28:56] uh so it was a fountain and we see
[00:28:59] the museography precisely staging it.
[00:29:03] in front of a basin where water came out of the lion's
[00:29:06] mouth and so it's perhaps in this place where everything was decided for
[00:29:10] you probably probably through the
[00:29:13] profession of your father to whom we pay homage in this
[00:29:16] museum, his imprint is everywhere, it's perhaps from there that
[00:29:20] everything started without wanting to influence us,
[00:29:24] I think my father did it indirectly
[00:29:28] uh well, we naturally oriented ourselves
[00:29:32] by nature. by passion also
[00:29:34] naturally in this environment, in archaeology, in
[00:29:38] history and so on, because we have always been immersed in it in
[00:29:41] the end, and when we talk about swimming, I specialized in
[00:29:45] underwater archaeology.
[00:30:10] What did your father Abdelkadir Ben Saleh transmit
[00:30:13] to you that was most precious in the way
[00:30:16] of looking at an object, an archaeological object of course
[00:30:19] uh I would say that the most
[00:30:23] important thing was precisely the transmission, this transmission of
[00:30:26] heritage, it was a motto for him, uh, he always
[00:30:30] told us that cultural heritage does not belong
[00:30:33] to us, it's just a
[00:30:36] message that we must keep precisely and preserve,
[00:30:39] conserve for future generations, so
[00:30:43] that's really the motto that I
[00:30:46] think is the most important that I got from my father, we
[00:30:50] are facing a mosaic, a special
[00:30:54] mosaic, the mosaic of the nine muses, you have it, so special
[00:30:58] of course for Algerian heritage, for Algerian mosaics, but
[00:31:02] also... because you have a story with this mosaic, yes
[00:31:05] yes, indeed, this large mosaic
[00:31:09] that was restored uh by my father and his team,
[00:31:12] he had
[00:31:15] chosen to train people in mosaic
[00:31:18] restoration in 2002
[00:31:21] where they completely dismantled this mosaic which
[00:31:24] was very fragile at the time, so its support was very fragile, they
[00:31:28] had to dismantle it and lay it on the ground to
[00:31:32] try to restore it so tessera by tessera, what we call tessera are the small
[00:31:35] cubes that make up the mosaic, once
[00:31:39] laid on the ground, they were surprised that I remember
[00:31:42] in 2002 because it really stressed him out
[00:31:45] uh for the record precisely also is
[00:31:48] that the subsidy stopped and it was at that
[00:31:51] moment that he gave a little speech to the whole
[00:31:55] team saying uh so the mosaic is
[00:31:57] on the ground, are we going to restore it or
[00:32:01] not? So and that's when everyone said, okay, very good, we're going to
[00:32:04] take on the challenge and they all contributed precisely to buy plaster,
[00:32:08] to buy the materials and so on and they
[00:32:12] reassembled it and uh there...
[00:32:15] here it is today, standing uh more than
[00:32:18] 15 years 15 years, 15 years after
[00:32:22] 20 years after its restoration, it is still standing and present precisely to
[00:32:25] be seen by future generations for centuries and
[00:32:29] centuries and stories and anecdotes uh you have
[00:32:33] many in this prestigious
[00:32:36] place with your father or without your father for that matter we can say that
[00:32:40] I had this love for heritage, for archaeology, so
[00:32:43] necessarily uh I had to discover by
[00:32:47] myself a little about these places and also try to have
[00:32:51] all that this museum
[00:32:54] hides, the other museum also and the whole city of
[00:32:57] Cherchell, we can say, it started like that, this love for heritage,
[00:33:01] it's curiosity that pushed me precisely to go
[00:33:04] perhaps see what's underground and even underwater, so
[00:33:08] necessarily it has this influence.
[00:33:10] there.
[00:33:40] a very beautiful, magnificent fountain, it's a fountain dedicated to the
[00:33:43] myth of Ulysses. with the sirens, so
[00:33:49] tie him to the mast so that he could hear the song of the sirens.
[00:33:53] and not being able
[00:33:55] to go, uh, it's also a
[00:33:58] way to show precisely all the
[00:34:02] maritime past of the city of Cherchelle, which
[00:34:05] is interested in the myths uh of the
[00:34:09] sailors of that era, so all the
[00:34:11] mythology and the sailors, etc., and
[00:34:15] it was also a way
[00:34:18] to show the relationship between Cherchelle Caesarea, so ancient
[00:34:22] Caesarea and its relationship with the sea
[00:34:25] uh she she she allowed me, I
[00:34:28] would say, to concentrate and focus my
[00:34:32] research to go and see what happened under
[00:34:36] the water, what is currently hidden under the water, and
[00:34:39] that's that's it, it deserves to be
[00:34:43] looked at and valued. and preserved too.
[00:35:31] We are delighted to find you at the National Center for Archaeological
[00:35:34] Research, the CNRA of Tipasa, your workplace,
[00:35:37] also a place of reflection
[00:35:40] and research, uh, a center created in 2017
[00:35:44] and which has a mission, which has a mission actually under the supervision of the
[00:35:47] Ministry of Culture, but which also has a mission to
[00:35:51] preserve, map, analyze
[00:35:54] too, carry out interventions, many
[00:35:57] missions that you share with your colleagues,
[00:36:00] most of whom are archaeologists, but you have
[00:36:03] specialized in underwater heritage,
[00:36:06] exactly, thank you and welcome to the National
[00:36:10] Center for Archaeological Research in Tipasa. Uh,
[00:36:13] indeed, we have... several missions, including
[00:36:17] the development of archaeological research here in Algeria, throughout the Algerian
[00:36:21] territory. Uh, the center
[00:36:24] has a lot of...
[00:36:27] specialists who come from
[00:36:30] different
[00:36:33] specialties, not just archaeology, we already have architects,
[00:36:37] surveyors, etc., and uh with
[00:36:40] all this multidisciplinarity, I will
[00:36:43] say that it has precisely
[00:36:47] what it takes to develop where the center is a
[00:36:50] good
[00:36:51] catalyst,
[00:36:54] a, a locomotive, let's say, for Algerian archaeology. So that's
[00:36:57] where it all begins. Okay, but you tell us how you joined
[00:37:01] after studying at the University of Algiers
[00:37:05] 2, University of Buzereha, you did a
[00:37:08] normal archaeology course, and how did you
[00:37:11] how did you get into underwater heritage,
[00:37:14] exactly, indeed, uh I
[00:37:18] first started as an archaeology student at Bzaria University, as
[00:37:22] you said, uh I
[00:37:25] then did my master's here in Algeria,
[00:37:28] uh then I went to specialize, so
[00:37:32] after working at OGEBC, I did my
[00:37:35] specialty in underwater archaeology abroad,
[00:37:39] where I participated in a
[00:37:42] which has a UNESCO chair called Master of
[00:37:46] Maritime and Coastal Archaeology, the
[00:37:49] MONOMARK, exactly, in Marseille, and it was
[00:37:53] from there that, let's say,
[00:37:55] uh the... the real research in underwater
[00:37:59] archaeology began, because I was able to acquire techniques that
[00:38:02] I didn't have before, I was self-taught, even if I dived, I did my
[00:38:06] research on underwater archaeology, but it was from that master's that I
[00:38:10] was able to acquire the techniques uh that are used
[00:38:13] around the world, precisely, uh to be able
[00:38:17] to do purely scientific research and
[00:38:20] adapted to underwater archaeology, exactly. Basically, when you
[00:38:23] were studying, there was no such thing at the time, right?
[00:38:27] At that time, there was no module dedicated to underwater heritage, it was
[00:38:31] later, the work was initiated in particular by Mr. Researcher
[00:38:35] Hamoum, but how did you get into the water, the sea, it's already a
[00:38:38] childhood passion, like archaeology, right? So after
[00:38:42] how to combine the two, well, I saw no other
[00:38:45] way than to do precisely this specialty,
[00:38:49] uh by trying to group precisely the two, the sea and
[00:38:52] archaeology, and what
[00:38:54] pushed me
[00:38:57] to go and look in
[00:39:00] other horizons for what was being done, and so on,
[00:39:04] to be able to develop this discipline uh in Algeria.
[00:39:08] At the time, this specialty did not exist, it was not taught at
[00:39:11] the university. Uh, there were no specialists
[00:39:15] who had previously done this discipline, and so
[00:39:19] there was a gap, and that gap had to be filled,
[00:39:22] and I think that at the time I had made the best decision
[00:39:26] to go. to develop myself in this field
[00:39:30] to then come back and try to
[00:39:32] develop it and be among the precursors in
[00:39:36] this field, it was really important to me. You did restoration, you
[00:39:40] touched vestiges on dry land, but what
[00:39:43] makes the difference with the heritage that is under
[00:39:46] the water? It is still a heritage, it is also vestiges, it
[00:39:50] can be artifacts, it can be types
[00:39:53] of, well, it can be a lot of pieces. I would say that the marine
[00:39:57] environment preserves archaeological artifacts better, so
[00:40:01] uh then the English call it a time
[00:40:04] capsule, so it's a time
[00:40:08] capsule that is under the water and it's up to us to
[00:40:11] discover it because it remains intact in general,
[00:40:15] it's not altered by
[00:40:19] any entropic aspect whatsoever, right? Over time, uh
[00:40:22] on, on cities, for example, ancient
[00:40:26] has this succession of six civilizations, so each
[00:40:29] civilization tries in some way to displace another or
[00:40:33] erase another, and on the other hand, underwater there isn't that
[00:40:36] aspect, meaning that what we find underwater remains intact until
[00:40:40] its discovery, apart from some alteration
[00:40:43] due to the environment, etc., the erosion of time,
[00:40:47] the erosion of time also. When the object is under
[00:40:50] water, it is better preserved because it does not oxidize, so it has less
[00:40:54] oxygen and therefore oxidation does not alter.
[00:40:57] archaeological and every time we discover something underwater, in
[00:41:01] general it's we are amazed by the beauty of the
[00:41:05] thing because it remains intact and we find it as it
[00:41:09] was lost at the time. When you come across an ancient
[00:41:12] object, a piece, a vestige, you should definitely not
[00:41:16] move it and take it out, especially
[00:41:19] for those who fish underwater, because normally those who do, there is
[00:41:22] prevention to be done on that side, it is one of the first steps
[00:41:26] to take, I would say, because the awareness of the general
[00:41:29] public, uh, we have done a lot of it,
[00:41:32] uh to sensitize the general public not to
[00:41:36] take objects out of their environment, already from an
[00:41:40] archaeological point of view, we should not decontextualize
[00:41:42] the object, because once out of its context,
[00:41:46] the object historically and scientifically is worthless.
[00:41:49] Uh, so we try precisely to
[00:41:52] sensitize people not to take objects out of their
[00:41:54] context, but also taking it out of the
[00:41:58] marine environment abruptly can precisely
[00:42:01] lead to the destruction of this object and we will
[00:42:05] never be able to preserve it well over time to keep it precisely for
[00:42:08] future generations, that is one of the objectives. You have been at the CNRA
[00:42:11] since 2020, you have already joined, you
[00:42:15] also teach from time to time at
[00:42:17] the university, the module of
[00:42:20] underwater, is it since 2020, 6 years
[00:42:23] now, you have an idea,
[00:42:26] I think a mapping has been drawn up, but do you already have a
[00:42:30] slightly more developed idea about
[00:42:34] Algerian underwater heritage?
[00:42:36] Uh,
[00:42:38] we are in... discovery, I would say, with a coast
[00:42:42] that is quite important, more than 1600 km of
[00:42:46] coastline for Algeria, so
[00:42:48] we are in constant discovery and we are waiting
[00:42:52] for the people of the sea to declare what is necessary because we can
[00:42:56] never go by ourselves and prospect the entire Algerian coast, which
[00:42:59] is immense anyway, and
[00:43:02] also the number of civilizations that have succeeded each other. You organize
[00:43:05] campaigns very often, so campaigns first to train
[00:43:09] young people to dive and maybe
[00:43:13] locate objects and be able to work too because all your
[00:43:16] work is done underwater in fact, even compared to the
[00:43:20] measurements, compared to everything that is usually done on dry
[00:43:24] land, you do it, it's the same technique, it's the same means, it's
[00:43:28] not the same techniques underwater, but
[00:43:30] on the other hand, precisely, in my free time, I try to
[00:43:34] participate with my fellow researchers and teachers at
[00:43:37] the university to precisely train a
[00:43:40] generation of underwater archaeologists who would possess
[00:43:43] precisely these techniques that are specific to underwater
[00:43:46] archaeology, among others, the underwater survey, for example, which
[00:43:50] differs from underwater excavation, which is not quite the same,
[00:43:54] etc. So there are certain aspects that are very similar, we
[00:43:57] do archaeology even underwater, it's still archaeology anyway,
[00:44:01] uh but precisely we try to transmit all
[00:44:05] that to others, to other to the younger
[00:44:08] generation. Uh, uh, it would
[00:44:12] perhaps take more means to invest
[00:44:15] in this field, because this field precisely requires
[00:44:18] more means uh to learn to
[00:44:21] dive, so we would first need to have the technique precisely to go underwater,
[00:44:25] right? Uh, it's the only way
[00:44:29] that exists precisely to make archaeological
[00:44:32] discoveries and also other technological means, I
[00:44:35] would say, to develop this discipline, uh whether
[00:44:38] it's uh underwater photogrammetry, underwater robotics, for example,
[00:44:42] etc. There are times when it's so deep that even we can't
[00:44:46] go down, so we call upon precisely what is done abroad, at the
[00:44:50] international level, that robots replace a
[00:44:54] bit human beings at significant depths,
[00:44:57] uh I participated, for example, in an international mission
[00:45:00] under the auspices of UNESCO as an expert for
[00:45:04] Algeria, so I participated in this expedition,
[00:45:07] uh which went around the Mediterranean, between the Sicilian
[00:45:11] Canal, the Tunisian coasts, etc., and
[00:45:15] the archaeological artifacts, the
[00:45:18] shipwrecks that we had discovered during this
[00:45:21] mission were at a very significant depth, more than 800 m
[00:45:25] deep, and so for us as human beings we did not have the possibility
[00:45:29] to go to those depths, uh we had planned
[00:45:33] to send robots and it was the robots that were able to bring us precisely
[00:45:36] the images of these discoveries, uh which is...
[00:45:40] uh extraordinary. So yes, yes, we should move
[00:45:44] forward precisely in this field with the new technologies that we can
[00:45:47] imagine that one day there will be, I mean, just like
[00:45:51] the museums of Algeria, that there will be a national
[00:45:55] underwater museum underwater.
[00:45:59] We could envision that, yes, already all underwater archaeological
[00:46:02] sites can become museums
[00:46:05] that can be visited, for that, it could be a
[00:46:08] good, it could be a good tourist asset for
[00:46:11] Algeria, a showcase also, uh,
[00:46:15] to say that we have this precisely cultural diversity,
[00:46:19] this historical richness also that is found under
[00:46:23] the water and that people can visit, so it's
[00:46:26] really a goal to achieve, because once the
[00:46:30] discovery is made, once the research is done, once
[00:46:34] everything is documented, well, we can open these sites to the
[00:46:37] general public to come and visit.
[00:46:41] the public quite
[00:46:43] trained in diving techniques, so there are many diving clubs that train
[00:46:47] amateur divers, etc., so all these
[00:46:51] people can come and visit these sites, that
[00:46:54] would be a goal to achieve after the research, yes, in the long
[00:46:57] term. Can we foresee it for the
[00:47:01] Hamdania site precisely where there was a
[00:47:04] discovery uh of 23 canons,
[00:47:08] I think, and which informs us about a period in our
[00:47:11] history, a battle that took place between Khairdin and
[00:47:15] the and the French
[00:47:18] during, let's say, the 16th and 17th century,
[00:47:21] I think. Cannons, indeed,
[00:47:25] frankly, there are not enough clues to say if there was a
[00:47:28] battle, if there was anything else, but what is certain
[00:47:32] is that we found 23 cannons indeed underwater and uh
[00:47:36] these cannons are at a very accessible depth, they are well
[00:47:40] preserved as long as they remain underwater, uh so
[00:47:44] yes, it's a site that can be visited
[00:47:47] in the very near future. We can envisage
[00:47:50] precisely the opening of... certain sites like that for
[00:47:54] public discovery, you just need to
[00:47:57] properly prepare these sites, let's say, and to prepare,
[00:48:01] sensitize the people who will visit these sites not to touch
[00:48:04] anything, not to damage the archaeological site and not to damage
[00:48:08] also the marine biodiversity, which is important, but divers are supposed to
[00:48:12] know that. The discovery of the 23 canons
[00:48:16] of Hamdania was a major event
[00:48:19] where many things developed quickly,
[00:48:23] perhaps a teaching module at the University
[00:48:26] of Algiers dedicated to underwater
[00:48:29] and also protection initiatives with UNESCO,
[00:48:33] all engaged by you, by the University of Algiers, by the
[00:48:36] CNRA, by also Mr. Hamoum who
[00:48:39] was Algeria's representative to UNESCO. Yes, I would say
[00:48:43] that the site of the 23 canons of Hamdania, or rather the White Rock,
[00:48:47] more precisely, was a major discovery.
[00:48:51] The discovery was made in the 90s by a
[00:48:54] local association in Cherchelle Maarif.
[00:48:58] Uh, they made this discovery there, they
[00:49:00] took pictures at the time, right? We're in the
[00:49:03] 90s, and uh subsequently,
[00:49:07] uh there was a colleague from the Cherchelle
[00:49:10] Museum who had done
[00:49:13] a study for his undergraduate thesis
[00:49:17] on this site, and
[00:49:20] Mr.... Professor Rafiq Lef
[00:49:23] uh took over
[00:49:26] the archaeological site to deepen the studies. There was a maritime museum
[00:49:30] that also intervened, so there was an enthusiasm,
[00:49:34] we could say, for this site in terms of research,
[00:49:37] where in the end, we all
[00:49:40] based ourselves on this site to try to shed light on this
[00:49:43] discipline, that was, I think, the objective at the time,
[00:49:47] it was, well, we saw that there were a lot of underwater
[00:49:50] vestiges underwater, we just need to discover them and bring them to light,
[00:49:54] and that allowed us to create
[00:49:57] a research unit in underwater archaeology within the
[00:50:01] CNRA, which also allowed the University of Tipasa
[00:50:05] to also develop this discipline within the
[00:50:08] archaeological and historical studies laboratory. Uh, there is
[00:50:11] also the maritime museum which has acquired equipment, a team,
[00:50:15] etc., and so that created this
[00:50:18] underwater archaeology, which was very beneficial for this
[00:50:22] discipline. Now we need to discover even more
[00:50:26] sites precisely to see all the diversity and historical
[00:50:29] richness. Speaking of which, we will find
[00:50:32] him later, we will find him at the Roman ruins site.
[00:51:47] I hope we didn't make you wait too long, not at all, but we
[00:51:50] were impatient to discover this site, and especially its history, its
[00:51:54] ancient history. We are, as we said, in
[00:51:57] Saint Salça at the entrance to Tipaza and we
[00:52:00] are facing a magnificent landscape, yeah, uh after
[00:52:04] having. crossing the ruins, we arrive in front of the two islands,
[00:52:08] but they are not just simple islands, they are islands that
[00:52:11] hide a heritage
[00:52:15] that has emerged and could perhaps represent the ancient
[00:52:18] port of Tipasa, the presumed ancient port of
[00:52:21] Tipasa, exactly. So it must be known that the Tipasa park is
[00:52:24] divided into two parks in reality, the east park and the west
[00:52:28] park. The east park is known as
[00:52:31] Saint Salça, but in relation to the necropolis, but here... What
[00:52:35] few people know is that here, as I said, is the
[00:52:39] presumed port. Why presumed? We know that there are structures that
[00:52:43] an ancient port definitely existed here. Was
[00:52:46] it the port of the city of Tipasa? The question
[00:52:49] mark is still posed. Why? Because we
[00:52:53] can see, as you see, that the site is a bit
[00:52:55] far from the port, so the port should
[00:52:59] normally be in front of the city or
[00:53:02] in front of the city center.
[00:53:05] conducted research so uh in reality in
[00:53:08] 1968,
[00:53:11] the university, uh the English university,
[00:53:14] conducted sonar prospections, it was
[00:53:17] revolutionary at the time and they confirmed the presence of
[00:53:20] submerged structures, so the jetties uh of
[00:53:23] the port and the basin where uh
[00:53:27] boats came to dock. We have
[00:53:30] started by uh doing
[00:53:33] archaeological prospecting work
[00:53:35] uh as part of our research projects where we confirmed the
[00:53:39] presence of these structures, we confirmed the
[00:53:42] presence of the port through, of course,
[00:53:44] dives, images, photographs and
[00:53:48] videos that we were able to take, but also this project
[00:53:51] has been uh taken up or has also
[00:53:54] been the subject uh of several thesis
[00:53:58] topics for final year students. We have also
[00:54:02] uh worked on this port uh during
[00:54:05] a study on the archaeological potential within
[00:54:09] the framework of the underwater archaeological
[00:54:12] zone requested by UNESCO and our
[00:54:15] colleague Nazim recently took up the file in the
[00:54:18] framework of the project of the buffer
[00:54:22] the ancient city of Tipasa. So in plain terms, for
[00:54:25] us simple viewers, simple
[00:54:28] Algerians, how to understand what is exactly under
[00:54:32] the water? You have done uh diving
[00:54:36] campaigns, exactly
[00:54:38] diving operations and with Nazim Ben Salah or
[00:54:41] uh others with other colleagues as well,
[00:54:44] uh there are difficulties, sometimes we cannot
[00:54:48] see very well, as was posed, as the question was posed at the port
[00:54:52] of Hamdania, there for visibility may
[00:54:55] not always be present, so what can we see and what can
[00:54:59] we see clearly? So what
[00:55:02] characterizes the port is its basin. And the basin is
[00:55:05] delimited by jetties, so to be able to identify the presence
[00:55:09] or not of a port, you must identify the
[00:55:12] presence of the structures that are the jetties. The jetties we have
[00:55:16] clearly identified, we can trace them from the
[00:55:19] islands, from the islands towards the coast of the two islands,
[00:55:23] as you can see, and inside it forms a
[00:55:26] basin, the basin is flat, so since it is
[00:55:29] enclosed, we were able to find a lot
[00:55:32] of vestiges, among other things... during the last operations
[00:55:36] we did with Nazim in partnership with the National Center for
[00:55:39] Archaeological Research, we found anchors, many
[00:55:42] amphorae, which was
[00:55:46] proof that the area or the basin had
[00:55:49] a period of occupation because when sailors arrived on
[00:55:53] site, they would throw, for example, they would clean their boats and
[00:55:57] throw more or less the
[00:56:00] broken amphorae at the bottom of the port, so that's what
[00:56:04] allowed us to confirm the presence of a port, the function of the port again,
[00:56:08] it remains undetermined, okay,
[00:56:11] a dating approximately? So the port
[00:56:15] uh, by the structures, it must be known that on the islands there are
[00:56:18] structures that were built too, uh by
[00:56:21] also the few archaeological elements and we
[00:56:25] can say that it is a port that was developed uh
[00:56:29] during the Roman period, so not before, we know that the city of
[00:56:32] Tipasa is known where there has been a presence
[00:56:36] since uh the Phoenician periods with archaeological
[00:56:39] evidence dating back to the 6th century BC, there perhaps we will
[00:56:43] talk about the 1st century and
[00:56:46] a use of the port perhaps until the late
[00:56:50] period, so we could have more details on the buffer
[00:56:53] zone requested by UNESCO and on this
[00:56:56] heritage or what this zone will represent in relation to
[00:56:59] heritage? Yes, yes, it is a project that brought together many people
[00:57:03] and is multidisciplinary above all. Because there was the CNRDPA, the
[00:57:07] National Research Center for the
[00:57:10] Aquaculture, who participated with us in addition to the University of Tipasa and the
[00:57:14] Maritime Museum, and which was overseen by the National Center
[00:57:17] for Archaeological Research, so it was the CNRA that oversaw this project and conducted
[00:57:21] the prospecting along the entire coast of the city
[00:57:24] of Tipasa where we wanted
[00:57:28] to see the archaeological potential that was underwater and this is
[00:57:32] a request from UNESCO to create a future buffer zone for the
[00:57:35] archaeological site of Tipasa, the archaeological sites of Tipasa.
[00:57:39] Uh, this allowed us to discover other places that had not
[00:57:42] yet been discovered, the Roman Bank, in addition, in addition to the
[00:57:46] port. of Tipasa, we discovered what is called what
[00:57:50] is found on maps as the Roman Bank, we found a lot of
[00:57:54] archaeological material, we already find very
[00:57:57] imposing anchors and amphorae, etc., which suggests
[00:58:00] that the boats before entering the port
[00:58:04] would drop their anchors while waiting to have a place in the
[00:58:07] port, they would drop their anchors in that specific place
[00:58:10] uh waiting to have a place in the port
[00:58:14] before entering. Very well, thank you very much, thank you... for
[00:58:18] this journey through time, very beautiful, but especially in relation to all that.
[00:58:22] which is done on underwater heritage, thank
[00:58:24] you very
[00:58:33] much.
[00:58:59] Under the patronage of the President of the Republic, Mr. Abdelmadjid
[00:59:03] Tebboune,
[00:59:06] the Higher Council for the Arabic Language announces the start
[00:59:09] of the competition
[00:59:13] in Arabic Literature and Language
[00:59:16] in its second
[00:59:22] edition. The award aims to recognize the best literary,
[00:59:25] linguistic,
[00:59:29] in the
[00:59:29] following
[00:59:33] fields: the field of flourishing
[00:59:35] Arabic language,
[00:59:38] the field of localizing knowledge,
[00:59:42] the field
[00:59:43] of translation,
[00:59:46] the field
[00:59:50] We invite anyone interested in contributing to this
[00:59:53] award to visit the Council's website for more
[00:59:56] information. You can also scan the quick response code
[01:00:02] the screen.
[01:00:04] Be more numerous, as the Arabic language awaits
[01:00:08] your ideas
[01:00:08] and projects.
[01:00:25] find us this summer for a show that talks about you,
[01:00:28] a show for you, but a show presented by us, oh yeah
[01:00:32] with us, we're going to talk about a lot of super interesting topics, we're going to talk about psychology, we're going to talk about
[01:00:35] nutrition, we're going to talk about sports, holidays, photos, only topics not
[01:00:39] to be missed, I'm really looking forward to it under the Algerian sun on Sunday and
[01:00:43] Wednesday at 9:30 AM on Canal
[01:00:45] Algérie.
[01:12:29] The fire.
[01:16:54] Fidaa.
[02:21:07] '
[02:30:51] Ladies and gentlemen, hello, very happy to meet you again from the
[02:30:55] city of El Kala in El Taref, the city of
[02:30:58] El Kala which welcomes us near the museum, we are really in the small
[02:31:02] square. which is in front of the
[02:31:05] museum of... I think it's the coral museum which will transform in
[02:31:08] a few days probably in a short time it will
[02:31:11] really become the coral museum. So of course
[02:31:15] in this beautiful square which is near the port which is behind
[02:31:19] us in front of a beautiful view and that's why we chose
[02:31:22] to make it our home for this summer breeze here in El Kala.
[02:31:28] the show, I have the pleasure of receiving Mr. Benyaqoub Slimane.
[02:31:32] You are then a university professor, you
[02:31:36] are specialized in ecology,
[02:31:39] biodiversity, so your presence is explained by the
[02:31:43] very beautiful forest region in
[02:31:46] which El Kala is located, that's right, exactly, thank you, I thank
[02:31:49] you. And to my left then I have Mr. Nordin
[02:31:54] scuba diving. El Kala
[02:31:57] with the coral, with the sea, so we couldn't
[02:32:00] avoid you, you are a...
[02:32:04] So, first of all, to explain the
[02:32:08] presence of an ecology specialist, in
[02:32:11] biodiversity, first of all, El Kala is
[02:32:15] an extraordinary natural, forest
[02:32:17] reservoir, exactly, exactly, I thank you for
[02:32:21] dedicating an episode to this
[02:32:25] subject. Uh, the region
[02:32:28] of El Kala has always constituted, due to the
[02:32:31] fact that it was... centered towards eastern Algeria, has always
[02:32:34] constituted a kind of biodiversity
[02:32:38] reserve
[02:32:40] uh, very important which has been
[02:32:44] recognized by many foreign researchers and subsequently
[02:32:48] Algerian of course and which was established as
[02:32:52] a biosphere reserve by
[02:32:54] UNESCO. Okay, so
[02:32:58] a zone
[02:33:02] that contains and harbors a
[02:33:06] certain number of very important heritage
[02:33:10] species from which
[02:33:14] we could repopulate areas that have been
[02:33:18] affected by any natural disaster such as fires,
[02:33:21] unfortunately that is the first enemy of... yes yes yes.
[02:33:24] Oh yes, we can talk about it, there are not only fires, there are areas
[02:33:28] that have been depopulated for multiple reasons.
[02:33:32] Fire, flood,
[02:33:36] possibly earthquake and so on,
[02:33:39] and this region, it was still little
[02:33:42] known, scientifically,
[02:33:45] formally, little publication was
[02:33:49] made and it started
[02:33:52] in the late
[02:33:55] 70s, early 80s,
[02:33:58] when in 1983 it was
[02:34:02] subject... to legal protection by
[02:34:05] creating the El Kala National Park and that
[02:34:09] was at the initiative of Benjedid, Chadli
[02:34:12] Benjedid was a hunter, he was a man of
[02:34:16] nature, he loved
[02:34:19] hunting, he loved nature in general
[02:34:23] and uh
[02:34:26] he was sensitized, well
[02:34:29] he is from the region, he is a native of the region, that's why.
[02:34:33] He was sensitized very easily by the way,
[02:34:36] uh by a certain number
[02:34:39] of works, people came
[02:34:43] to see him and he decided to create the El
[02:34:46] Kala National Park in 1993
[02:34:49] with, well, with its prerogatives, with the
[02:34:53] texts that govern it, etc. And we
[02:34:56] were extremely happy at
[02:34:59] the time to... to see
[02:35:03] that this area was legally given so much importance, that it's
[02:35:06] important to protect it, to give it importance, and especially
[02:35:09] then but and then it was UNESCO that
[02:35:13] it was then that UNESCO came and gave it an international
[02:35:16] dimension. Okay. It was known
[02:35:19] and uh and so that
[02:35:23] added another higher level
[02:35:26] of consideration
[02:35:29] uh of this. Yes, yes.
[02:35:32] Of course, it's about... So, obviously, there was a lack of
[02:35:36] research and from
[02:35:38] 1997, the University of Annaba
[02:35:42] already had researchers, but the University
[02:35:46] of Annaba installed a research station here
[02:35:50] permanently
[02:35:54] and one of its missions,
[02:35:58] in addition to training, was to inform all
[02:36:01] the ecosystems. So there were several marine
[02:36:05] ecosystems, mountain ecosystems, plain
[02:36:09] ecosystems, aquatic ecosystems, it's the
[02:36:12] area with the most wetlands.
[02:36:17] All the famous bird lake which is bird lake, an international
[02:36:21] reputation
[02:36:23] Lactonga yes Lacta la Tonga which is a
[02:36:27] gem in terms of biodiversity because
[02:36:30] it's what we call in ecology
[02:36:34] a source ecosystem.
[02:36:36] La Tonga is so rich that the
[02:36:40] birds that multiply there exceed the
[02:36:42] level of saturation
[02:36:46] of this lake and so what happens, they leave, they go to colonize
[02:36:49] other areas, that's it. So unlike ecosystems that
[02:36:52] they themselves absorb and
[02:36:56] generally eliminate individuals. So
[02:36:59] there you have it, we are in a
[02:37:02] magnificent ecological basin. That's right, magnificent.
[02:37:06] And you were talking about
[02:37:09] marine biodiversity, that's right, Mr.
[02:37:12] Nordin is here to talk to us about this passion, which is
[02:37:16] scuba diving. Uh,
[02:37:19] so I think you are native to El Kala,
[02:37:22] so necessarily, oh yeah.
[02:37:25] Necessarily, how did the passion for scuba diving come about, with underwater
[02:37:30] underwater hunting we became professional.
[02:37:34] Okay, and diving is a sport, exactly,
[02:37:38] in theory, exactly, you have to follow, that is to say, exactly what
[02:37:42] you, for example, if you dive with a tank, you have to
[02:37:46] know the places, the location, and the
[02:37:50] tank, the filling and the
[02:37:53] weighting. to go diving,
[02:37:57] so do you initiate or do you just freedive? No, I
[02:38:00] do it myself, that's a passion, there you go. Has it never
[02:38:04] occurred to you to share your passion with young people?
[02:38:08] But I did it, not with young people, with great gentlemen in
[02:38:11] Algiers. Oh, okay. And in El Kala...
[02:38:15] So, diving, is it in all of them because we
[02:38:18] know for
[02:38:21] coral but I think also not
[02:38:24] only.
[02:38:29] because I wasn't
[02:38:31] I didn't intend to do it and at
[02:38:34] the time they asked for the second diver to
[02:38:37] dive.
[02:38:39] I was
[02:38:45] and to assist a diver, there were French divers,
[02:38:48] okay, yeah, in 90,
[02:38:52] I was waiting to work with the coral divers, and well
[02:38:56] after I didn't stay here
[02:39:00] until 90 until this moment, there is no coral
[02:39:03] opening. So but you told me that
[02:39:07] thanks to this passion for diving, you traveled all over the
[02:39:10] world, many countries, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
[02:39:16] after I did the port of
[02:39:19] Jenjin also another beautiful
[02:39:21] region
[02:39:24] I met some great chefs who invited me to work in
[02:39:27] Qatar, then after Qatar, the island of Borneo, after after after
[02:39:31] and so on, there you go.
[02:39:35] And so on, but diving,
[02:39:37] it's the phenomenon, the phenomenon of
[02:39:40] diving,
[02:39:44] that is to say. If we are at a depth of 30 to 40
[02:39:47] m, there is rapture of the deep, I don't know, rapture of the
[02:39:51] deep is narcosis,
[02:39:53] okay, it is really there, it
[02:39:56] is beyond 40 m it
[02:40:00] becomes the sunless world, okay, the ray but it
[02:40:03] penetrates and it's the coral that lives beyond
[02:40:07] 40 m or
[02:40:08] it
[02:40:12] lives to be touched by the sun. Because it has a
[02:40:15] refracted ray, the reflected ray. 40 m it
[02:40:19] does not receive any sunlight. Uh at 40
[02:40:24] it narcosis, yes we call it rapture of the
[02:40:27] deep and what exactly do we feel, it's
[02:40:31] a state of mind,
[02:40:35] it's the beginning, it's a blur, okay,
[02:40:39] the image is blurry, something is wrong but the diver must
[02:40:42] know what to do if he is at
[02:40:46] 45 m or 50 m, for example, we are talking about
[02:40:49] coral, it is at 50 m, the coral is at 45
[02:40:52] m, where will he dive
[02:40:56] to 50 m when he has the
[02:40:59] sensation of intoxication
[02:41:02] 50 m he goes up to 45 m, the 5
[02:41:06] m it becomes more
[02:41:09] voilà, that's good, that's good okay, he'll
[02:41:12] be normal.
[02:41:15] Yeah, and he can, for example, ascend, he has
[02:41:18] decompression stops, it's true that you shouldn't ascend
[02:41:21] directly. You have to
[02:41:23] ascend, it has an ascent speed. 13
[02:41:28] meters.
[02:41:34] there are bubbles coming out, you must not exceed
[02:41:36] them in safety. If the law says
[02:41:40] 13 meters per minute, you must stay even
[02:41:43] if it says 10 meters
[02:41:46] per minute, piano pian, slowly, slowly,
[02:41:49] slowly, slowly in the sense that the
[02:41:53] nitrogen bubble that was created at 50 m
[02:41:56] is a nitrogen bubble. that is linked to the anatomy
[02:42:00] of the large circulation, I am a layman of diving, I don't know
[02:42:04] and I must admit that really
[02:42:08] you know nitrogen, well nitrogen
[02:42:11] then it's the circulation of blood that it
[02:42:14] carries when we ascend with
[02:42:17] stops, the nitrogen bubble that was created at 50
[02:42:20] m, okay, it cannot escape because
[02:42:23] when we ascend slowly then we stop, for example, it all depends on the...
[02:42:28] the dive table, the diver does not create it, it is the dive
[02:42:31] table, yeah, oh yeah, it's a whole, well, it's the dive
[02:42:35] table, each example, each dive table,
[02:42:39] for example, it says 10 minutes at 9
[02:42:42] m, what does he do, he doesn't do, he puts 12,
[02:42:46] 12 minutes at 9 m, 2 minutes
[02:42:49] more, for example at 6 m, he puts
[02:42:52] for example 20 minutes, he does 22 minutes in
[02:42:56] the sense that the nitrogen bubble leaves because it has the sensation
[02:43:00] of going to the heart, it will be
[02:43:02] an infarction,
[02:43:04] embolism, if it goes to the brain, it will be
[02:43:07] edema, a paralysis,
[02:43:11] oh yeah, no, it's really then and then so another
[02:43:15] phenomenon is the pressure
[02:43:17] yes the water pressure because the deeper we go the more the pressure
[02:43:21] increases yes so we are at an atmospheric
[02:43:24] pressure equal to one bar ah
[02:43:28] 76 760 to do calculations, but one bar of atmospheric pressure is currently
[02:43:32] exerted on humans, if we dive to 10 meters,
[02:43:36] it's hydrostatic,
[02:43:38] a 10 m column of water is equal to one bar, okay, that means
[02:43:42] the deeper we go it doubles double plus one bar of
[02:43:46] atmospheric pressure and we therefore h we breathe
[02:43:50] 6 liters of air and the lungs are divided
[02:43:54] 1.5 1.5 1.5 1.5
[02:44:57] hydrostatic, so two bars, we will multiply that by two bars
[02:45:01] by 6, at 10 meters we
[02:45:03] breathe 12 liters of air, twice
[02:45:07] we need twice as much. If we dive to 30
[02:45:10] meters, it's 3 bars plus 1 bar, 4 meters, 3
[02:45:14] x 4 yes it makes 12, it's the lungs that
[02:45:17] inflate, so if we dive for example to 30 meters and we
[02:45:20] ascend, it is inversely proportional to the pressure it
[02:45:24] undergoes, if we descend, it is the pressure that
[02:45:27] increases and the volume what does it do, it decreases.
[02:45:31] Well, now we've really gone into the details
[02:45:34] but it's what's good it's very important for divers who
[02:45:38] are diving now. So and that's why you didn't think of training because
[02:45:41] in terms of training all the data you have is
[02:45:45] important to transmit. So at 30 m we
[02:45:48] dive, well we must ascend, when we
[02:45:52] ascend we must breathe
[02:45:54] normally to release the air, the air contained at 30
[02:45:58] m, in 30 m equals 4 bars of pressure, three bars of hydrostatic
[02:46:02] pressure plus one bar of atmospheric pressure, when we ascend
[02:46:05] we must release it because if we close our mouth the
[02:46:09] lungs have their elasticity limits
[02:46:13] it's 200 g force per square centimeter
[02:46:16] when it increases the volume it exceeds its
[02:46:19] limits what does it do it breaks well pulmonary
[02:46:23] overpressure and you teach all that to all the people who dive it
[02:46:26] must someone tell me I just because it's important
[02:46:30] to share your knowledge with others
[02:46:32] to train
[02:46:35] sincerely your knowledge is very useful especially for
[02:46:39] divers. I've done quite a lot
[02:46:43] of training, how do you become a professional diver,
[02:46:46] what should we
[02:46:47] follow,
[02:46:55] well already it's important, of course, it's the
[02:46:57] base,
[02:47:00] you have to adapt to the mask, underwater
[02:47:03] vision, then get to
[02:47:07] know the diving tank.
[02:47:10] how to fill a diving tank with a
[02:47:13] compressor and how to mount a
[02:47:16] regulator and how to breathe with on
[02:47:20] land to practice breathing
[02:47:35] to do and begins to breathe, he takes a rock, something like that, a
[02:47:38] heavy pole.
[02:48:10] because it's a content of air when it decreases and when it
[02:48:13] increases and that means that one must have theoretical
[02:48:16] training first before moving on to practice,
[02:48:20] that's understood, practice is really the second phase to
[02:48:24] become, there you go, there you go. In any case, it's and
[02:48:27] with all this data, all this data,
[02:48:31] well, we learned that we must have a lot of knowledge to go
[02:48:35] diving and not just declare
[02:48:37] ourselves
[02:48:40] but there we will stay of course in forest biodiversity since
[02:48:44] we will move on to Mr. Ben Yakoub, just
[02:48:48] you stay with us because we still have the second part of the show, we
[02:48:51] will talk about this beautiful region of El Kala, we will
[02:48:55] talk, we will talk if you allow me about what it
[02:48:58] contains that is spectacular, we will not go into details, no, no, no, of
[02:49:02] course, we will talk about it in the second part and the show, uh
[02:49:05] just uh before we leave, Mr. Nourddine
[02:49:09] Bouzriba. First of all, I thank you for enlightening us, but
[02:49:12] what advice can you give us before leaving, especially to those who
[02:49:16] want to dive?
[02:49:19] You have to go through a theory exactly
[02:49:21] before
[02:49:25] okay, you should not
[02:49:28] venture
[02:49:31] I do 60 steps not
[02:49:34] a column of 100 m of water to die, 1.60 is
[02:49:38] enough for me because the mouth is at... 40 m, okay, right
[02:49:41] or not? So you have to go
[02:49:44] slowly, slowly, as the Italian said, to go
[02:49:48] piano piano arrivar lontano.
[02:49:51] Very good, we'll stick to
[02:52:45] There you go, thank you for remaining loyal to this summer breeze from
[02:52:49] El Kala, we are really near the...
[02:52:53] We are in the museum, on the terrace of the coral
[02:52:56] museum of El Kala in El Taref, and in the
[02:53:00] first part, we talked about scuba
[02:53:03] diving. Mr. Nordin has left us, but
[02:53:06] Mr. Yacoub remains with us, but we will introduce the lady who brought
[02:53:10] us all these beautiful cakes, Mrs.
[02:53:14] Sarah Oufi, but you are first
[02:53:17] a stylist first and foremost, a tourist
[02:53:20] guide second, but you are also president of the active women's
[02:53:24] association in society, thank you for being here first,
[02:53:28] thank you, sir, welcome, well, let me introduce
[02:53:31] myself, I am Mrs. Channoufi Sarah, first and foremost I
[02:53:35] am a fashion designer, stylist, in addition I
[02:53:38] am a state-approved tourist guide and
[02:53:41] president of an association that concerns
[02:53:45] artisans, very good, which explains your cakes for which we thank you first
[02:53:48] because we changed tables a bit, changed decor especially because there is...
[02:53:56] So El Taref is part of Algeria with its beautiful, rich
[02:54:00] heritage in every sense,
[02:54:04] of style and cakes, but also in many
[02:54:07] other things, of course. It is a city,
[02:54:10] first and foremost, it is a tourist city, it is
[02:54:13] a city that has many traditions, many
[02:54:19] cultural heritage of El Kala is truly rich.
[02:54:23] Uh, among this heritage we
[02:54:25] find traditional clothes,
[02:54:29] traditional cakes, there are also traditional
[02:54:32] dishes and many, many
[02:54:36] traditions. So my little finger tells me, of course, my little finger, the
[02:54:40] preparation of the show that says that, you have to
[02:54:43] your credit the first coral caftan decorated with
[02:54:47] coral, that's right, yes, it's a creation, the idea
[02:54:50] first, uh, the idea of creating a
[02:54:54] caftan, it was an old idea but it developed
[02:54:57] when it was marked on UNESCO
[02:55:00] as a
[02:55:03] garment, yes an Algerian garment, an Algerian
[02:55:07] heritage, so I based myself on that to create
[02:55:10] this creation and what I did as something
[02:55:14] special, I was able to use coral beads as
[02:55:17] decoration on this caftan, very good so we have the images
[02:55:21] on
[02:55:48] also the forest, the biodiversity, that's why
[02:55:51] Mr. was with us, thank
[02:55:54] you first, for your time, but tell me, it's true,
[02:55:58] there's the Morgen, who
[02:56:01] who who has been making a reputation for a very long time, it must be said that it
[02:56:06] coral that practically is part of the life
[02:56:10] of this whole part of the Algerian coast, yes yes yes, 15th
[02:56:13] century approximately, 16th,
[02:56:16] uh the first to
[02:56:20] exploit it are those who developed. already a
[02:56:23] goldsmithery based on coral, these are the
[02:56:26] Italians, the southern
[02:56:29] French, and
[02:56:32] they had concessions like that, by I
[02:56:35] think it was the Bey of
[02:56:38] Constantine. who would
[02:56:41] who would and so they fished for
[02:56:45] coral which grew 2 m deep.
[02:56:48] yes, yes, it has a whole
[02:56:52] it has a whole industry, a whole occupation that has been built around
[02:56:56] that. So, it also, we were talking in the
[02:57:00] first part of the show about
[02:57:02] lakes, wetlands. So first
[02:57:06] describe to us what a wetland is, because we know that
[02:57:10] the most famous wetland, for example, is Lake Tonga, which has
[02:57:13] an international reputation.
[02:57:16] but it is classified, it is
[02:57:20] classified in the
[02:57:23] nomenclature, well, it is classified as a site
[02:57:27] of international importance, but it's
[02:57:31] Alkala zone which are, and Annaba which are classified.
[02:57:35] And like that Ramsar, and uh well a
[02:57:39] wetland is a zone where water
[02:57:42] stagnates or circulates for a
[02:57:45] certain period of the year and it hosts in this
[02:57:48] context a fauna that is dedicated to it, it's the
[02:57:52] rivers, it's the marshes, it's the
[02:57:55] it's the small ponds, it's the lakes, all these are humid
[02:57:59] the estuaries, the lagoons like the
[02:58:02] Mellah, right, which is brackish.
[02:58:05] All that constitutes a kind of
[02:58:08] concentration of aquatic environments that is
[02:58:12] unique in Algeria, that is practically unique in North Africa.
[02:58:15] The areas around it have
[02:58:19] birds that are unique because the region is unique.
[02:58:23] Well, I say birds, but I think it's many other animals
[02:58:26] that have a life all around. It has an enormous
[02:58:29] life. In fact, La Calle is one of the most watered regions, in terms of
[02:58:33] rainfall. Okay, that's what explains a little
[02:58:37] this kind of primary production, the forests, the
[02:58:40] things that exist, and the lakes,
[02:58:44] of course. Plus, it's a zone that is rough in terms of
[02:58:47] topography, so it has hollows, it has mountains, it
[02:58:51] has valleys, it has thalwegs and so on,
[02:58:55] so water stagnates a bit everywhere.
[02:58:58] At one point it was a malaria hotbed, up until the
[02:59:02] 60s and so on, it needed
[02:59:05] thanks to the WHO, right,
[02:59:10] program in terms of the Algerian state's program here, it was
[02:59:14] eradicated. But but it has
[02:59:17] I have colleagues who still follow the, well, we remain on alert, we are
[02:59:21] always, and who follow the populations of
[02:59:24] tiger mosquitoes especially and
[02:59:26] yes, and what they carry as as germs
[02:59:30] uh because it can start again with this
[02:59:33] increase uh in global
[02:59:37] temperature, uh there are some risks that we
[02:59:41] need to prepare for. We remain vigilant, of course, even if we are a little
[02:59:44] spared. We are not in a pandemic zone of
[02:59:48] malaria. No, we are really outside, we are not in a red zone, we are not in a
[02:59:52] red zone. No, but but it still has a
[02:59:55] need to monitor all that, yes, but that's good, it's like it's a
[02:59:59] tropical climate, even though we are not in the
[03:00:03] zone where there should be... Well, there are tropical
[03:00:06] plants here, well, yes, there are palms that are, no, no, no,
[03:00:10] but that's Mediterranean. No, there are
[03:00:13] truly tropical plants that grow on the edges of some lakes.
[03:00:16] Yes, and they are a survival of the ancient
[03:00:20] tropical climate that reigned here, and yes, Africa
[03:00:24] has moved, it's moving towards Europe, right, so further south it
[03:00:27] was tropicalized, if I may say so, and so
[03:00:30] they exist, there are certain ferns, certain
[03:00:34] certain aquatic plants,
[03:00:37] which are a survival of the ancient tropical
[03:00:40] climate. They stayed there because of the heat and
[03:00:43] humidity, so there are both
[03:00:47] factors, and it is probable that it
[03:00:50] will continue to increase,
[03:00:53] and that this time tropical species
[03:00:57] of animal organisms will settle. How?