CANALCATORCE — broadcast
20260914 033000 UTC
543 transcript segments
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[00:00:00] lives is a very profound change because it also impacts
[00:00:03] in cultural terms, in how the same population is perceived,
[00:00:07] and many of these stigmas that the
[00:00:11] politicians of before, like Peña
[00:00:14] Nieto, who said corruption is cultural, the poor are poor because they want to be, all these
[00:00:18] stigmas are being broken and it is being explained, no, the poor are not poor because they want to be,
[00:00:22] it is part of a structure that has been there and remains there and
[00:00:26] that does not let you leave and does not give you space for social mobility.
[00:00:29] The fourth transformation has understood it well and precisely
[00:00:32] for this reason there are these social, labor,
[00:00:36] economic policies that impact and
[00:00:38] to have to be lived with I conclude on the issue of security, how can we think about this
[00:00:42] reduction of more than 52-53% in
[00:00:46] intentional homicides, if it is not accompanied by a
[00:00:49] policy that gives you a state that is
[00:00:52] with this project of embracing, safeguarding, caring for and giving life options, which is what
[00:00:55] many young people did not have and today Azul explains very well, young people
[00:00:58] already have options, women,
[00:01:02] men who are from preschool
[00:01:04] Party, in Latin America in to university to
[00:01:07] guarantee their studies and then there is the certainty that there is no starvation wage
[00:01:11] like the ones that were 2,300 pesos which was a complete mockery
[00:01:15] to think that a family lives with it, deep
[00:01:18] down Emerson, the
[00:01:21] neoliberal model also had a
[00:01:24] notion of the expendables,
[00:01:28] young people, of course. they were expendable,
[00:01:32] migrants were the
[00:01:34] expendable, the poor
[00:01:38] were the expendable,
[00:01:41] older adults, older adults were not
[00:01:44] only expendable but
[00:01:46] disposable,
[00:01:50] a series of concepts that were never
[00:01:53] stated as such, but that are there at the
[00:01:56] heart of a model that was defeated.
[00:02:00] In the Mexican case defeated twice
[00:02:03] in the sums and that
[00:02:06] still wants to resurface through
[00:02:10] think that the conditions or what television programs
[00:02:13] of messages
[00:02:18] now compared to what radicalization in from opposition political parties that still haven't understood it.
[00:02:20] From your point of view, what is the reflection,
[00:02:24] what happened
[00:02:25] this concept of or what is happening so that they still don't
[00:02:28] clearly see
[00:02:32] this success of social policies, this economic
[00:02:36] model and welfare
[00:02:39] that Óscar described very well, that we are
[00:02:43] witnessing,
[00:02:46] so right now it is part of Mexican exceptionalism, it is part of
[00:02:48] an exceptional model where, facing the world,
[00:02:52] the Mexican government is betting on public services, on the
[00:02:55] dignification of education, of housing.
[00:02:58] and these are very dark times for the
[00:03:01] region and for the world, precisely
[00:03:05] on these issues, where in Argentina
[00:03:08] we see an open attack against education, against teachers,
[00:03:12] against retirees, against students,
[00:03:15] a model that they want to replicate
[00:03:18] in Chile, we also see it
[00:03:21] in Colombia and
[00:03:24] well, they do it from a perspective following
[00:03:28] the recipes from the north, where in the United States
[00:03:31] also the welfare state is
[00:03:34] dismantled, where everything is in the hands of
[00:03:38] private insurers, where the economy does not
[00:03:40] advance
[00:03:42] homosexual, but what and in Europe also a welfare state where in the
[00:03:46] second half of the last century,
[00:03:49] political forces bet on social democracy or even
[00:03:52] Christian democracy, they tried to convince
[00:03:56] that a liberal framework was possible with a
[00:03:59] robust welfare state where quality education, quality housing
[00:04:03] could be had and we see a deep housing
[00:04:06] crisis where very few people are having access to education,
[00:04:10] a huge real estate crisis and at the
[00:04:13] same time a far-right and extreme right-wing
[00:04:17] discourse where the fault is with the
[00:04:20] migrants, the fault is with the different, and that is
[00:04:24] the global pulse and that is why I speak of
[00:04:28] this Mexican welfare economic model reflecting an exceptionalism
[00:04:32] of many of the and a position of Mexico
[00:04:35] and the Mexican government
[00:04:38] was not, let's say, somewhat of a different way of doing things, no, that's right, and this set
[00:04:42] of variables that are rooted in reality
[00:04:45] also, I think, allows something that is fundamental and that
[00:04:49] allows its continuity and I am referring to governability,
[00:04:53] no, governability is not the same as control, and I think that is something that previous
[00:04:57] governments did not achieve, the neoliberal
[00:05:00] period did not distinguish, they confused having political
[00:05:04] control through, let's say,
[00:05:07] the army, through various public
[00:05:11] state resources, to have control, but
[00:05:14] that does not translate into governability, no, and I think that the big
[00:05:18] economic step with this
[00:05:21] new model of Mexican industrialization with this focus on
[00:05:25] young people's education, this data that Karen gave, this
[00:05:29] commitment not only to a social program
[00:05:32] already replicated from older adults, but the focus is
[00:05:36] on young people, more money is being allocated, in fact to
[00:05:39] adolescents, and no country in the world is doing it,
[00:05:43] that is, I think that these traits are the ones that are
[00:05:47] allowing and will allow a government
[00:05:51] with these traits and characteristics to prevail over
[00:05:54] time, but also to have governability,
[00:05:58] that is, I think that is very important because these are the instruments
[00:06:01] it has to continue
[00:06:05] the fourth transformation over time to sustain it
[00:06:08] and when precisely we saw in a
[00:06:12] Peñista government, it had a
[00:06:16] bought opposition practically by the Pact for
[00:06:18] Mexico, but that did not allow it to govern or
[00:06:22] give it governability, referring to a political
[00:06:25] class that bought it but had
[00:06:28] governability without socialist
[00:06:31] legitimacy,
[00:06:34] and that legitimacy is not only stated
[00:06:37] but is rooted in public
[00:06:41] policies. That's right, let's take a
[00:06:45] break, don't leave us, we continue here in public
[00:06:48] debate,
[00:06:54] it's expired, what do you mean expired, but and
[00:06:58] now, no, how do you think, look at the date, I
[00:07:02] can't change your check, a little expired,
[00:07:05] I'm sorry, but we won't be able to conclude your procedure, check the validity of your
[00:07:08] voter ID so you don't find out the hard way, if your
[00:07:11] voter ID has a validity year of 2026, go get it
[00:07:15] before the year ends, go to ine.mx or call
[00:07:18] inetel for more information. The INE with you
[00:07:22] always.
[00:07:24] There is a new way to serve Mexico, agents who
[00:07:28] investigate, analyze and provide elements to detain
[00:07:31] generators of violence and dismantle criminal
[00:07:34] cells. If you are between 23 and 35 years old,
[00:07:38] have a degree and a vocation for service, become an intelligence
[00:07:41] and research agent, register at
[00:07:44] reclutamiento.sspc.gov.mx.
[00:07:48] Research and intelligence that deliver results in the service
[00:07:52] of Mexico. Government of Mexico. In Mexico,
[00:07:55] prevention is our strength. That is why this September
[00:07:59] 19th at 12 noon, Central Time, participate in the
[00:08:03] second national drill 2026. Establish and
[00:08:06] review your evacuation routes. Define meeting points and
[00:08:09] assign responsibilities. So that all of us are prepared,
[00:08:13] register your home, workplace or school
[00:08:16] at preparados.go.mx.
[00:08:18] Prevention is everyone's task. National Civil Protection
[00:08:22] Coordination. Government of
[00:08:23] Mexico.
[00:08:30] We return to public debate. We just
[00:08:32] left off on Emerson's argument
[00:08:35] about Mexican exceptionalism, not only
[00:08:39] in terms of social
[00:08:42] policies, welfare
[00:08:45] programs, the mixed social
[00:08:48] economy model, but
[00:08:51] also in not sharing this
[00:08:54] rhetoric, and I think it needs to be insisted on, because it was
[00:08:58] exacerbated by what just happened in Ceuta, this
[00:09:01] rhetoric where all the far-right
[00:09:04] movements are no longer talking
[00:09:07] about the failure of the neoliberal model
[00:09:10] of the neoliberal budgets.
[00:09:13] One of those budgets fell in Mexico which is the fact that if you increased the
[00:09:17] minimum wage there would be inflation, which here it has already been
[00:09:21] practically proven that it is not like that, it is not correct, but now they are throwing
[00:09:25] everything against
[00:09:27] migration, against
[00:09:31] the expendable, why? From your point of view, well, you
[00:09:35] say it very well, the common thread of
[00:09:37] several and let's say that all over the world,
[00:09:40] not only in the United States. We see it in Latin America,
[00:09:44] a few days ago we also saw it in Germany with the triumph in Saxony,
[00:09:48] with 44%, a region historically
[00:09:52] governed by the CDU, by the Christian Democratic Union, that is, by the
[00:09:56] German right, no, the right that brought Merkel to power,
[00:09:59] for example, and for many
[00:10:03] years, let's say that it is something that has been
[00:10:07] fueling, even before the arrival of Donald Trump in
[00:10:10] 2016 in the United States, where in
[00:10:13] Italy, Georgia Meloni with Brothers of
[00:10:16] Italy, her own political
[00:10:20] group, and in Spain with Vox and the Popular
[00:10:23] Party we have seen a tremendous right-wing shift in the
[00:10:27] Popular Party, that is, of the right, but it is practically
[00:10:30] adopting the Vox agenda and the turning
[00:10:33] point, without a doubt, was the issue of
[00:10:36] Ceuta where migrants are used as
[00:10:39] political instruments, as instruments of
[00:10:43] geopolitical pressure and where the
[00:10:46] discursive platform
[00:10:49] also of public policies, because they are not only extreme rights
[00:10:52] that make a lot of noise as
[00:10:55] they did for a long time, such as Marine Le Pen in France, it was
[00:10:58] a marginal far-right force that was assumed
[00:11:03] and that it would be there, but in recent
[00:11:06] years we have seen how not only are they noisy
[00:11:10] but they can be voted for and they can access power,
[00:11:13] no, Georgia Meloni did it in Italy, the same Marine
[00:11:17] Le Pen in France has already placed herself on several occasions
[00:11:21] in second rounds, Vox is already doing it in various autonomous
[00:11:25] communities in Spain in co-government with the Popular
[00:11:29] the region José Antonio CAS comes to the presidency
[00:11:33] with a deeply racist discourse of
[00:11:37] putting up border walls, no,
[00:11:40] of reinforcing borders, of militarizing
[00:11:42] them, that is, it is something we are seeing
[00:11:46] not only in the United States but as a
[00:11:49] manual, where blaming, criminalizing the
[00:11:53] migrant is the
[00:11:57] easiest way out to justify the
[00:12:00] errors and a failed
[00:12:03] model, a failed model
[00:12:06] where in Germany let's say that there is even talk of the
[00:12:10] possibility of a federal government because they called
[00:12:13] this sanitary cordon where center-left and center-right forces
[00:12:17] and the Greens allied to
[00:12:20] distribute the ministries to achieve the vote, thus
[00:12:23] blocking the way for the far-right, that was for many
[00:12:27] years, no, but now the possibility is seen that the extreme,
[00:12:30] that traditional right-wing voters vote for the far-right so they can
[00:12:34] access power, no, so what we are seeing
[00:12:37] is a tremendous
[00:12:40] the platforms of parties, of leaders, the same
[00:12:44] leader Uldric Sickmund there in Saxony
[00:12:47] calling
[00:12:50] remigration and what is remigration? It is
[00:12:54] practically ethnic cleansing, it is forcing the
[00:12:57] expulsion of migrants, let's say it is
[00:13:00] migration in reverse, but through the use of force,
[00:13:04] no, so this concept of
[00:13:07] remigration is also used by many of the
[00:13:10] far-right advisors in the White House, that is, Steve Bannon, Stephen
[00:13:14] Miller are convinced of this concept of
[00:13:17] remigration and
[00:13:20] it has been used in various conspiracy
[00:13:23] theories also of that possibility that a state can
[00:13:27] expel, carry out an ethnic cleansing of migrants from their countries, no, and
[00:13:31] that has, let's say, intoxicated France,
[00:13:34] Spain and Germany,
[00:13:38] Germany and it contrasts with the Nordic countries because also in
[00:13:41] Sweden, no, in the Netherlands also the
[00:13:44] exact, this Gerth Builders is also a leader of the
[00:13:48] far-right in the style of
[00:13:51] Germany also very similar to Germany, no, where the...
[00:13:55] leader of AFD, of Alternative for Germany,
[00:13:58] Alice Weidel, is openly homosexual, she has a
[00:14:02] partner, her partner is a migrant, no, Gert Builders is also
[00:14:07] they do share openly is their hatred
[00:14:11] towards migrants and policies of
[00:14:14] expulsion, no, so we see how Mexico, on the
[00:14:18] contrary, receives many migrants, no,
[00:14:21] it gives more instruments to migrants in the United States
[00:14:25] with, that is, not only during the neoliberal
[00:14:29] period was the greatest expulsion of migrants in Mexico, especially
[00:14:32] in the 90s, and that a migrant
[00:14:35] can have access to social security in Mexico, that he can have
[00:14:39] access to his money being sent
[00:14:42] safely, that they are not abused
[00:14:46] by the remittance companies that charge very
[00:14:49] high commissions now with this new mechanism defines it well,
[00:14:52] that is, there is an extension of the
[00:14:56] rights of Mexicans in the United
[00:14:59] States, of migrants in general, not only in the United
[00:15:02] States, but it is a feeling that for the first time the Mexican
[00:15:06] state looks back at its
[00:15:09] migrants, well, President Claudia Shetman said, it cannot
[00:15:12] be that consulates are merely
[00:15:16] administrative offices and defense offices, that is, it is a
[00:15:20] state that beyond its borders is
[00:15:24] defending its own citizens, I have a question, Oscar, because
[00:15:28] this is almost never talked about, we are poisoned
[00:15:31] by this propaganda, these
[00:15:34] hate policies towards migrants on social
[00:15:37] media, in the Western agenda,
[00:15:41] it is Donald Trump's narrative, but what is
[00:15:44] happening in Asia, for example, China,
[00:15:46] Southeast
[00:15:50] Asia, Korea, well, we
[00:15:53] know that in Japan also a
[00:15:54] conservative
[00:15:57] policy with an anti-migrant line triumphed
[00:16:01] and curiously the PISA test that Azul
[00:16:04] also mentioned reflects that the strongest advance
[00:16:07] is growing and it is still happening in Asian countries,
[00:16:11] how is politics there? Well, I think now we can already make
[00:16:14] a good contrast between these two
[00:16:18] contrasting visions between the Western
[00:16:21] economy that we see is in a multidimensional crisis
[00:16:25] and the Asian side that, well, at the
[00:16:29] same time that we are describing this crisis, they just had a
[00:16:32] meeting of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization, which is
[00:16:35] precisely to unite everything.
[00:16:38] with a view to being able to include everything that can be achieved with the
[00:16:42] term of mutual benefit, that is, they are not
[00:16:45] commercial or productive relations of subordination, but
[00:16:49] they are of cooperation, that is, well, I have all the infrastructure
[00:16:53] and well, let's see how we can make the exchange to close
[00:16:57] the gaps, so it's just like Venezuela, no, well,
[00:17:01] almost a little exactly, I'll
[00:17:04] take your oil and you give me this.
[00:17:07] mind, well, yes, there it makes
[00:17:10] a total contrast and well, also a month
[00:17:14] ago there was also a meeting on international governance of artificial
[00:17:17] intelligence led by Xi Jinping,
[00:17:21] that was in Shanghai and well, the idea is this principle
[00:17:25] where trade does not have to immediately translate into subordination,
[00:17:29] that other types of exchanges are possible and for example
[00:17:32] also recently it was signed there will be free passage
[00:17:36] between Russia and China, for example, and
[00:17:39] there is also, well, this free passage of goods
[00:17:43] also of people, of people, it is also
[00:17:46] moving in that direction, but the most important thing
[00:17:49] is also to remember one thing, Western economies
[00:17:51] are small
[00:17:55] Eastern economies are achieving and in this case, for example,
[00:17:58] well, a Western
[00:18:02] country in crisis begins to stress too much because
[00:18:05] it is receiving the boomerang effect of first having taken its capital,
[00:18:09] exported capital, destroyed those countries and then
[00:18:12] there is a reflux of workers who are seeking survival, so
[00:18:16] it is its own effect, but let's think about the
[00:18:19] Chinese economy, which is an economy with an infrastructure designed for more than
[00:18:23] 1.4 billion people, so
[00:18:26] the scale on which the Eastern economy is conceived
[00:18:29] is different, that is, there is also
[00:18:32] actively a whole vision of
[00:18:34] planning, the plans that...
[00:18:37] permanent channels and there are also all
[00:18:41] this new position that China has in the sense of
[00:18:44] proposing alternatives for international governance to
[00:18:48] the traditional ones of the West, that is, there is already this
[00:18:52] vision where, well, also with the trains that are very
[00:18:55] important, they are already making a new interconnection,
[00:18:58] there are problems here in the Suez Canal, well, they are
[00:19:01] enabling a route in the Arctic,
[00:19:05] so there is the need to seek to
[00:19:08] interconnect Iran, for example, which is the heart, well, there is this
[00:19:12] project that is the one that would mortally wound the
[00:19:15] US economy, which is the project of uniting Russia
[00:19:18] precisely with India and with China, no, so through
[00:19:22] gas pipelines, no, trains, trains, trains and all the
[00:19:26] necessary infrastructure
[00:19:29] for that interconnection, that is, the new Silk Road
[00:19:33] is the great project that is being
[00:19:36] promoted and demonstrating that international economic
[00:19:39] relations cannot be limited to simply that
[00:19:43] you offer as an offering your national
[00:19:45] assets so that they become financial speculation titles on
[00:19:49] a stock exchange that every certain time also bursts
[00:19:53] and and and let's say that
[00:19:56] dissolves the value generated by the workers themselves,
[00:19:59] so migrants and I think this is very important from the
[00:20:03] perspective of political economy, to remember that human
[00:20:06] labor is social collective labor, it is the true source of
[00:20:10] all wealth, that's right,
[00:20:13] that's important to describe and for
[00:20:16] you to describe, Oscar, because
[00:20:19] we are really poisoned, that is one
[00:20:22] thing that we face
[00:20:25] every day in Mexico,
[00:20:27] because
[00:20:30] the model of the fourth transformation, the model of the
[00:20:33] welfare economy, the model of a
[00:20:38] public security project with welfare, faces
[00:20:41] a machine of lies every day,
[00:20:44] that's right, which we now know is a
[00:20:48] transnational machine of lies,
[00:20:52] it's not only Mr. Ricardo Salinas Pliego and
[00:20:55] his cronies, it's
[00:20:58] or his guests or his
[00:21:00] employees, it's this machine that we have been
[00:21:04] seeing since the case of Fernando Cerimedo,
[00:21:08] yes, exactly, yes, the point is that you can no longer materially
[00:21:11] sustain a way of reproducing life, so the idea is to
[00:21:14] distort everything to such an extent that you don't even know where to begin.
[00:21:18] sepas ni siquiera dónde empezar.
[00:21:28] domination corresponds to a relationship of rebellion against that domination,
[00:21:31] so this distortion is the prison in
[00:21:34] which the West is currently caught, it is
[00:21:38] trying to revive its old victories,
[00:21:42] that's why "make America great again" is the
[00:21:45] confession that they already feel left out, that it is
[00:21:48] no longer like that. Well, I think the contrast
[00:21:52] with the East now is that it also has to lead us to renew
[00:21:56] our vision and our criteria of what an economy
[00:21:59] is, that is, what economic development is and how
[00:22:03] the integrality of the economic phenomenon is understood
[00:22:06] from the street to state planning, there is a lot of
[00:22:09] fear that the Mexican economy
[00:22:12] could be affected by the degree of dependence we have with
[00:22:16] the United States and by the degree of complementarity.
[00:22:19] That is, we could not
[00:22:22] immediately substitute that strong
[00:22:24] dependence on the North American market
[00:22:28] for the Asian market,
[00:22:31] of course, yes, as Canada is doing, but my question is,
[00:22:35] is this real or is it just a self-colonized
[00:22:38] impression? Well,
[00:22:41] it is, I like the question very much because
[00:22:44] indeed there is something to that, no, because one could say
[00:22:48] well, you are on the other side of the Pacific Ocean, of course it is not the same
[00:22:52] as simply taking your goods to one side, but
[00:22:55] I think the president said something very important today in the morning
[00:22:59] and it has to do with the fact that, well, remember that Mexico's
[00:23:02] geographical position, of course, as an interoceanic
[00:23:05] crossroads and as an important
[00:23:09] connection point for the entire
[00:23:12] continent, has a very important potential to be an
[00:23:16] industrial hub because although the political stridency
[00:23:20] of Trumpism indicates that he doesn't need anyone, I don't know what,
[00:23:23] no one in the world believes them anymore, because we are all
[00:23:27] interconnected to such an extent that there is already a co-dependency, well, it's not the same as a
[00:23:31] unilateral dependence as a co-dependency,
[00:23:36] what is happening is that precisely the United States
[00:23:40] when it tries to relocate the productive process to
[00:23:43] its immediate area because it can no longer control the Asian or Middle
[00:23:47] Eastern ones, well, then it needs to necessarily
[00:23:51] substitute, have economic space to grow and
[00:23:54] beat that new other productive form, what is the secret of that
[00:23:58] other productive form that is not based on absolute
[00:24:01] competition but on cooperation, that is,
[00:24:04] the United States is obliged to know how to set up
[00:24:08] economic cooperation in its region, well, if Canada is
[00:24:11] doing it, that is, this that Canada
[00:24:14] did and is doing now. moments, something that
[00:24:18] was not in the manual, that was not on the
[00:24:22] route, that decision by
[00:24:25] Mark Carney and the Canadian state in general
[00:24:28] with all its provinces to
[00:24:31] say, "Ah, they don't want us with the United
[00:24:35] States." Well, we're not going to beg them. And right now, the
[00:24:39] Mexican foreign minister is in China and there's already a direct understanding.
[00:24:43] Diplomatic doors are opening for a future relationship.
[00:24:46] And well, just to add that it coincides that
[00:24:50] Mark Carney's popularity soars after it comes into
[00:24:54] effect and how Canada responds, right? I mean, we can't
[00:24:57] remove the political variable, right? I mean, where a country
[00:25:01] that defends its sovereignty responds,
[00:25:03] let's say, in a reciprocal way,
[00:25:07] this, let's say, brings electoral benefits, right? I mean,
[00:25:10] I think that also, just to point something out, in the Mexican
[00:25:14] case, I think it's different because there was
[00:25:17] between Canada and the United States this kind of attempt to
[00:25:21] be the same beforehand, not with
[00:25:24] Mexico, not, let's say, this
[00:25:28] on the table, but I think it's important
[00:25:32] because while Donald Trump takes you to the almost mixed
[00:25:35] martial arts arena because he wants a WWE
[00:25:39] fight,
[00:25:42] to a wrestling match, President Sheimamu has taken him to
[00:25:45] fencing, right? So it's different, I mean, the
[00:25:49] proportionality, it seems elegant to me. How do you see
[00:25:52] it, Azul? Well, first of all, I find what
[00:25:56] that experiment of Canada with China will be interesting,
[00:26:00] because it forces it to change its own rules where, yes, structurally, it had been
[00:26:04] functioning precisely like the United States. There,
[00:26:07] we return to the issue, for example, of migration. It had not
[00:26:10] internalized this same view of the threat
[00:26:13] that migrants represented,
[00:26:16] also within a view where we are
[00:26:19] nationalists, you are a threat, not only in terms of human
[00:26:22] mobility, but in terms of the relationship
[00:26:26] with other countries. Now, as
[00:26:29] this Chinese
[00:26:32] paradigm advances, where we talk about
[00:26:36] cooperation, we talk about human mobility
[00:26:38] that relates differently
[00:26:42] in the economic context, well, Canada's
[00:26:45] situation will be interesting. What I do say is that there is also
[00:26:48] much greater affinity with Mexico, let's say, and what Mexico
[00:26:52] has been building, because the boomerangs that the West
[00:26:55] is facing right now are in many senses and on many
[00:26:59] levels. One has to do with the return
[00:27:02] of people from countries that were destroyed
[00:27:06] by the voracity of neoliberalism in the most
[00:27:09] developed countries, but another is all those people who went to their
[00:27:13] countries were also treated, even if it wasn't
[00:27:16] with the restrictions and persecution that we are seeing today, they were
[00:27:20] treated as citizens, not even, but as
[00:27:24] second-class people, second category, and you cannot
[00:27:27] think that in the long run,
[00:27:29] it doesn't turn into, let's say,
[00:27:33] spaces of marginalization that eventually revert back to you within your own society, which is what
[00:27:37] they are experiencing now, and that's why they want to make them scapegoats, instead of
[00:27:40] structurally changing the way to, well,
[00:27:44] how to take advantage of this,
[00:27:47] this human capital, let's put
[00:27:51] it that way in economic terms, to be able to provide mobility
[00:27:55] and and sustainability
[00:27:58] to these welfare states that have been in decline, right? All
[00:28:02] those countries and they can no longer even sustain themselves for what their
[00:28:06] first-class populations are, right? That's
[00:28:09] right, Karen, I
[00:28:13] we are experiencing today is not necessarily what will be experienced tomorrow, and
[00:28:16] under that logic, it is, well,
[00:28:19] necessary to think about what Mexico's position is in the face of the
[00:28:23] world, what relationship it wants to have with the United
[00:28:26] States, not today but tomorrow, in five, in
[00:28:30] 10 years, in 20 years, and also with the different latitudes of the
[00:28:33] world. What Oscar proposes is interesting, because it is a completely
[00:28:37] different vision of how economics is conceived, and therefore,
[00:28:41] I imagine the impacts, the impacts on how politics
[00:28:44] is conceived. It is also an option for Mexico, look, now
[00:28:48] on the topic of our codependency or this
[00:28:51] close relationship that exists,
[00:28:54] codependency on both sides with the United States, it
[00:28:58] seems to me that this moment of
[00:29:00] crisis in the United States is very
[00:29:04] indicative. Look, a few days ago,
[00:29:07] the border was reopened for the cattle issue.
[00:29:11] That's right, that is not due to political
[00:29:15] goodwill or anything like that, but because in the United States,
[00:29:18] they desperately needed the cattle to pass,
[00:29:21] live cattle, as it is called, so that the
[00:29:25] prices from our country would not skyrocket.
[00:29:28] Ironically, a few days later, that's only for the
[00:29:32] as, sorry, they were on
[00:29:36] the verge of the price of cattle skyrocketing. How else
[00:29:39] can we explain that it opened overnight? It was
[00:29:42] unsustainable because the United States needed that cattle
[00:29:46] to be fattened there and from there would come, well,
[00:29:49] the meat consumed in that country. It closed later
[00:29:53] because, precisely, with all these months,
[00:29:56] it was, it was, this is an anecdote just because it's very funny,
[00:30:00] the cows were fattened in our country.
[00:30:02] When they passed, there was a technical failure that caused the system that weighs them
[00:30:06] and measures them to collapse, because they were already fat, they were
[00:30:09] already fat now. But the interesting thing here
[00:30:12] is diabetes, well, they ate better in Mexico than in the United States and
[00:30:16] they got fatter, right? But the interesting thing
[00:30:20] here is like fat cows, a time of
[00:30:23] lean cows, we are not living in Mexico a time of fat cows,
[00:30:26] precisely contrary to what there is in the United States where there were not even
[00:30:30] cows, but it is one example
[00:30:34] response that we should be understanding
[00:30:38] that the United States needs us as much as
[00:30:41] at some point, well, one might think that we need
[00:30:45] them, and oh, sorry, I'm just closing and this also gives
[00:30:49] us a position of advantage regarding the negotiations that are held with the
[00:30:52] different, the different countries, the different nations, that's right.
[00:30:56] Here I'm going to take a quantum leap, time is almost up.