CANALCATORCE — broadcast
20261012 030000 UTC
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[00:00:00] We give results. Government of
[00:00:04] Mexico. Next,
[00:00:08] public
[00:00:08] debate.
[00:00:13] belong to the establishment of
[00:00:16] fear and yes exactly, what Friends, good evening. We are in public debate. A
[00:00:21] there should be self-criticism on the part of ghost haunts Latin America and it is no longer the military coup of
[00:00:24] the 70s. Now it is the digital coup of the Trumpian
[00:00:27] era. A kind of
[00:00:30] algorithm coup through the large digital platforms, social
[00:00:34] networks, the use of artificial intelligence with hundreds,
[00:00:38] perhaps thousands of millions of dollars, which
[00:00:41] include managers, businessmen, mercenaries
[00:00:45] and specialized technologists in
[00:00:48] segmenting lies to voters, and
[00:00:52] complicity of who undertake cognitive warfare strategies
[00:00:55] wherever they are, they have undoubtedly advanced
[00:00:58] in less than 4 years since the end of the
[00:01:02] COVID pandemic to date,
[00:01:05] they succeed in Mexico, do they succeed in Mexico, what they have achieved the victory of far-right options in
[00:01:07] practically all of Latin America, in
[00:01:10] Argentina with Javier Miley, in Chile with José Antonio
[00:01:13] Katz, in Bolivia with Rodrigo Paz, recently in
[00:01:17] Colombia with Abelardo del Espriela, in Honduras with
[00:01:20] Nasri Azura, in Ecuador with Daniel Novoa, in El
[00:01:24] Salvador with Bukele, in Peru, with Keiko
[00:01:28] are indeed behind these ecosystems of Fujimori and they are preparing
[00:01:29] fit the mold of to strike the big blow in
[00:01:32] the second round of elections in Brazil next October 25th,
[00:01:36] Breitbart news, he didn't build what they do not
[00:01:36] level of a right-wing international, act alone nor uncoordinated, the broad
[00:01:39] umbrella of digital Trumpism and the aggressive formula of
[00:01:43] prioritizing the anti-walk, anti-justice,
[00:01:46] anti-immigrant message and the
[00:01:50] promotion of a punitive populism that prioritizes
[00:01:53] a firm hand and the law of the strongest above any criterion of
[00:01:57] justice, democracy and respect. for the rule of
[00:02:00] law, the digital right
[00:02:03] is, as in the case of Mexico,
[00:02:07] waiting to see how they can
[00:02:11] counteract alternative,
[00:02:13] powers and interests, however, with progressive or humanist projects and for
[00:02:17] that, the bots are as useful
[00:02:20] as the evangelical religious groups and
[00:02:24] the promoters of an economic libertarianism, which is nothing more
[00:02:28] than the path to disaster. We are going to analyze the digital right in this public debate, we begin,
[00:02:32] good evening, well we begin,
[00:02:46] thank you very much to Luisa Iglesias for being with us, good evening, thank you for
[00:02:49] inviting me again, no dear Luisa, host of
[00:02:53] reference point and also
[00:02:56] a digital strategist, now really.
[00:03:00] Would you say right, left or what
[00:03:03] current, counter current, better let's go the
[00:03:06] other way, let's try the other way tonight,
[00:03:08] exactly,
[00:03:11] a pleasure to be here, thank you very much director
[00:03:12] digital issue was already starting with the entire of TV emigrant, it is also a pleasure for me to have Ernesto Ángeles, thank you very much
[00:03:16] good evening, how are we, specialist in artificial intelligence and other
[00:03:20] types of intelligence also to our
[00:03:23] dear Gustavo, Gustavo, thank you very much for being here, host of
[00:03:27] you found coordinator of the agency.
[00:03:31] of MX Reference or reference point.
[00:03:35] is what Gustavo, you have followed very well in these last
[00:03:38] months all this strategy after the
[00:03:41] Cerimedo scandal. Yes. The
[00:03:44] Cerimedo scandal is perhaps the clearest,
[00:03:48] most intricate, criminal portrait
[00:03:51] of how digital
[00:03:55] rights operate.
[00:03:59] And what this case also reveals
[00:04:02] is that they do not act alone, that they have a
[00:04:05] kind of
[00:04:08] intertwining among themselves, how could you describe them Gustavo? Nadia
[00:04:12] Beller, the lawyer who tried to
[00:04:14] assassinate Cerimedo, has given
[00:04:18] several clues and last week she published a photograph in which Cerimedo,
[00:04:23] the United States is a, and in the Brad Parscal and other publicists appear with Donald Trump's son,
[00:04:26] Donald Trump Junior, who is Brad Pascal, he is
[00:04:30] a great link. Brad Parscal was the
[00:04:33] director of Donald Trump's digital campaign in 2016,
[00:04:37] supported by all
[00:04:38] intelligence or the use of the resources that were Cambridge Analytica, all the data resources that were
[00:04:42] Cambridge Analytica which was the massive leakage of information from millions
[00:04:45] of Facebook users, after that campaign he developed a
[00:04:49] communication agency, a campaign agency called nucleus
[00:04:53] campaign, campaign nucleus and this
[00:04:56] truly adverse context where they win campaign does microsegmentation
[00:04:59] which is based on all the data that you can extract from the internet, from
[00:05:02] social networks, from whatsapp groups, from telegram, all the amount of information that is on
[00:05:06] the internet they process it with artificial intelligence and they
[00:05:09] microsegment, so for example they can oh. clearly I'm
[00:05:13] afraid that the coffee will run out, so they send messages to their whatsapp
[00:05:16] to their telegram saying the next
[00:05:19] progressive government will end coffee, so that's how they start segmenting all the messages with
[00:05:23] artificial intelligence, prioritizing fear, prioritizing
[00:05:28] artificial intelligence allows you to do is to locate what will motivate you, it can be
[00:05:32] fear, it can be concern about something, but usually they are negative
[00:05:35] feelings and what Brad Parscal does with Serimedo is to bring
[00:05:39] that infrastructure from Nucleus Campaign to Latin America.
[00:05:42] which is what they have been using to move electoral campaigns in all these
[00:05:46] countries in favor of right-wing candidates, now
[00:05:49] this would be possible, Ernesto, all
[00:05:53] this strategy that we saw from Cambridge Analytica in
[00:05:56] 2016 with Brexit, with the triumph of
[00:05:59] Trump, without the
[00:06:04] the big platforms in the case of Cambridge Analytica very
[00:06:08] clearly in 2016 with Facebook, so much
[00:06:11] so that Zuckerberg, the owner of Facebook, was
[00:06:15] prosecuted and now without the
[00:06:19] complicity, well, of X, of Elon
[00:06:22] Musk, of Google, of
[00:06:26] TikTok, they sneak in almost invisibly, how would
[00:06:30] you describe it,
[00:06:32] Ernesto? I think both, no, if we analyze it over
[00:06:36] time, at first it was a mechanism more than anything
[00:06:39] like taking advantage, these powers were adding up, according to their
[00:06:43] interests, to this evident and clear strategy that
[00:06:45] there is at an international
[00:06:49] that occupy the flaws of the
[00:06:53] algorithms, occupy all these ecosystems to create
[00:06:56] alternative communication ecosystems and these
[00:06:59] ecosystems, in the end, attracted new
[00:07:02] actors, in this case, these
[00:07:05] actors joined for economic or political interest, no, and we see
[00:07:09] it very clearly in the case of Mexico, no, around
[00:07:12] 2010. 16 we had the digital ecosystem, these mechanics of the
[00:07:15] digital ecosystem, but there were the ecosystem
[00:07:19] media, not as separate, separate, no,
[00:07:22] there were these separate
[00:07:26] the passage of time, we have seen a symbiosis, a
[00:07:29] symbiosis between the media, between particular
[00:07:33] interests and there is an actor that seems very relevant to me that is never
[00:07:37] mentioned, that beyond the technology companies and the
[00:07:41] platforms, there are advertising and public relations
[00:07:44] companies, here I think it is a
[00:07:47] bit the bridge that exists between these two worlds, between
[00:07:51] the digital world and the traditional world of the media, no,
[00:07:54] so you are talking about the advertising campaign consultancies, yes, for example,
[00:07:58] Trident, this, I don't know if you
[00:08:00] remember, some years ago
[00:08:03] in Mexico a company called Trident
[00:08:06] Acelera came out, which was precisely to create influencers and all
[00:08:10] that, I think Gabriela. marketing, yes, it was
[00:08:13] queting who was behind this, well then
[00:08:17] in the end, I think that at first it was
[00:08:20] powers that were agglutinating around
[00:08:23] political and economic interests and now we already have a symbiosis
[00:08:27] of ecosystems of lies in which
[00:08:29] participate from the platform that makes the algorithm that gets
[00:08:33] an economic benefit from these mechanics to the
[00:08:36] public relations companies that provide consultancy to the large
[00:08:40] parties, we also have the parties. that in political
[00:08:44] parties we see a complete transformation and they will
[00:08:48] not let me lie in cases, these
[00:08:51] actors, especially from the right, who a few years ago
[00:08:55] behaved in a different, more institutional way
[00:08:58] and who now behave like a bot because what
[00:09:02] we are seeing is that politics is now
[00:09:05] beginning to adopt patterns from the digital world and not the
[00:09:09] other way around, so the case of Salinas Pliego is very clear.
[00:09:20] Its strong core, its core of power lies in these technological ecosystems
[00:09:24] and what is behind these technological ecosystems, so I
[00:09:27] would say that there are interests behind the companies, such as, for example,
[00:09:31] the conversion of X to the far right with the purchase of Musk, but
[00:09:35] there are also other actors who have been joining, who have appeared and
[00:09:38] everything revolves around this creation of new ecosystems. that
[00:09:42] especially the far right has known, has known how to
[00:09:46] congregate, has known how to take advantage and has known how to feed, how much artificial
[00:09:51] artificial intelligence has accelerated this process
[00:09:55] or runs in parallel, how would
[00:09:58] you describe it, I would say it's more like an
[00:10:01] accelerator, perhaps a tool, but here the
[00:10:04] core of the matter for me is not only technical,
[00:10:08] it is social, it is social, it is social because it is
[00:10:12] that. and it is economic, because these
[00:10:15] ecosystems of lies are coordinated,
[00:10:18] there is a coordination behind and every time the discussion focuses on the
[00:10:22] bots, it seems a bit arid to me because the
[00:10:25] bots, how do they move, who buys them, where do they buy them, what do they buy them for,
[00:10:29] that is, there is a whole social construction behind that seems
[00:10:33] to me that beyond the algorithms of the
[00:10:36] artificial intelligence models, the product here that characters
[00:10:40] like this
[00:10:43] Cerimedo sell, and let's say the innovation here was
[00:10:46] to create structures, it was the model of creating disinformation
[00:10:49] structures where there are elements such as, for example,
[00:10:53] influencers where there are new traditional media where
[00:10:57] the formula behind is, for example, these
[00:11:00] charismatic figures, these easy and
[00:11:03] emotional messages, so all this whole construction
[00:11:07] behind it seems to me that it is what has been
[00:11:11] emulated in the Latin American case, we see
[00:11:14] it, for example, in Colombia, we see different
[00:11:17] Cerimedos, Cerimedo is not the only one, that is, it seems
[00:11:20] to me that we also have to be very clear about that, Cerimedo is one
[00:11:23] of many. That is, in the end, and he is not the first,
[00:11:27] that is, this, well, they are disinformation
[00:11:31] ecosystems that exist and that in the end very probably
[00:11:34] characters who are public or media that
[00:11:38] are public participate directly
[00:11:41] or indirectly, either to hunt for fake news
[00:11:45] and get views, either
[00:11:48] with characters who participate in these media and who
[00:11:53] lies, why are they right-wing,
[00:11:56] that is, because by nature they are right-wing or
[00:12:00] because the left or the progressive
[00:12:02] groups have not known how to use
[00:12:06] it or have used it and and are marginalized, why
[00:12:09] is there a clear tendency to the
[00:12:12] right? I think first of all, if
[00:12:16] we go to a broader time
[00:12:19] analysis, the left was the pioneer, progressivism was
[00:12:23] a pioneer in these digital strategies, of course, however,
[00:12:26] 2010, just 2010, large
[00:12:29] movements,
[00:12:32] were the pioneers, however the formula and
[00:12:35] industrialization were adopted by the right,
[00:12:38] this, the right became rebellious, it didn't become rebellious,
[00:12:41] it became, the right knew how to adapt to these
[00:12:44] ecosystems and also had the means to do it because
[00:12:48] they do start, that is, basically the
[00:12:52] right starts in this race with a great
[00:12:55] advantage from the algorithms, from capital, from economic
[00:12:58] interests, yes, it does start with an advantage, but here
[00:13:01] also the point is that the right has known
[00:13:05] how to adapt to these ecosystems and these have known how to transform them,
[00:13:08] yes, in this case, for example, let's start from the fact that
[00:13:12] in these ecosystems, easy messages,
[00:13:15] emotional messages prevail, and especially
[00:13:18] these emotional messages that lead to radical
[00:13:22] emotions, anger,
[00:13:25] fear, also hope, however,
[00:13:29] anger and fear are easier to evoke,
[00:13:32] so the right knew how to adapt
[00:13:35] these structures and take advantage of them, that is, in
[00:13:39] the end there is a tendency, but this tendency has
[00:13:42] been appropriated by the right, exactly, Luisa, what do you think?
[00:13:45] I am very passionate about this topic, I have always thought
[00:13:48] that the left and the right politically speaking and the center, I don't
[00:13:52] even want to start, let's make this...
[00:13:55] analogy with cinema, no, the right would be like
[00:13:58] Fast and Furious or like a Hollywood blockbuster that has all the
[00:14:02] money and capitalizes on entertainment because
[00:14:04] they were born from entertainment, while the left is your favorite
[00:14:08] independent film or your Tarkovsky film that goes slowly and
[00:14:12] explains things to you and that also has a much
[00:14:16] higher language than you can understand, so it is sometimes
[00:14:19] impenetrable for new generations, no, and when suddenly someone says
[00:14:23] hey, sorry, I'm not so clear about what Marxism is, five
[00:14:27] left-wing people turn around to give you an intellectual slap in the face
[00:14:31] that is not physical to tell you, how can you not understand
[00:14:35] this, while the right is a totally open space to
[00:14:38] say be an idiot, no such, I am saying there
[00:14:42] is a certain arrogance in the left, the left has an
[00:14:45] arrogance that I think has to do, of course, with the handling of
[00:14:49] intellectuality, of culture, the social
[00:14:52] handling, of course, of seeking a better. construction of worlds,
[00:14:56] the left always looking for better worlds, while the right couldn't care
[00:15:00] less, all it wants is to capitalize, monetize, keep
[00:15:04] all this money, why does the right triumph so much on social networks, well,
[00:15:07] let's think that entertainment, which has always been political and
[00:15:11] also, rather, politics has always been entertainment, but those who
[00:15:15] understood it best were those on the right, Volodimir Zelensky, a
[00:15:19] famous comedian in Ukraine, Jimmy
[00:15:21] Morales, a very well-known actor for these programs.
[00:15:37] for an elector who has no, what's more, let's remove all the structure of Cambridge
[00:15:41] Analytica and all these mechanisms, this
[00:15:44] right to humor and fear, so to speak, is still
[00:15:47] more memorable than the right to the obligation and responsibility of
[00:15:51] thinking, I am saying this in simple terms, because I would consider that we should
[00:15:55] be pursuing, yes,
[00:15:58] the left and we were just talking about it a little while ago about
[00:16:02] where we stand, that the same tools are working for us,
[00:16:05] why suddenly we have a
[00:16:08] right that allows Del Espriella to have campaigns with this
[00:16:12] tiger of pure artificial intelligence that they deliberately
[00:16:15] knew had no message and that didn't matter,
[00:16:19] it still worked, why the same thing is happening with
[00:16:23] Lula for this next second round where we see that Lula had
[00:16:26] a tangible platform where the benefits
[00:16:29] he generated for Brazil could be delimited
[00:16:33] and touched, even so the Bolsonaros came with all these
[00:16:36] campaigns. that have to do with social conditions and in Brazil there is
[00:16:40] uberization, I think uberization, I think it is a phenomenon that allows
[00:16:43] you to explain why campaigns are not connecting, digital campaigns connect
[00:16:47] when the conversation on networks or on the internet connects with
[00:16:50] the conversation outside the internet, uberization allows you to explain why the
[00:16:54] left's conversation does not connect, there are 2 million workers on platform lines
[00:16:58] in Brazil, of those, 70% are not interested
[00:17:02] in working formally, why? Because they consider that their free
[00:17:05] time or the time they can manage on the platform. form they can manage their money, they don't want
[00:17:09] to connect to a platform, to a formal job, there are 2
[00:17:13] million people who have this collaborative economy, yes, and
[00:17:16] they think they are Uber partners and that they are going to become millionaires like Andrew
[00:17:20] Tate and these conversations from the manosphere come to them and get rich
[00:17:24] just by thinking because you are going to be rich and these are people who
[00:17:27] eat every day because the platform gives them food, they got their television,
[00:17:31] their speaker, they pay Netflix with what they pay from the platform and
[00:17:34] when they manage to lift their eyes from the screen. the state has not
[00:17:38] impacted their material reality, so how are they going to,
[00:17:41] I adore Lula, but Lula is a union leader from 40 years ago, how
[00:17:45] are you going to talk to a young person who has never had a formal job, who doesn't know what a union is, who
[00:17:49] has not had to defend their labor rights because they claim labor rights,
[00:17:53] they are people who are obviously more connected to their reality with what a
[00:17:57] young person who says you are going to become a millionaire
[00:18:00] embracing the manosphere, for example, on that topic when the podcast boom occurred
[00:18:04] during the pandemic, what was studied by the
[00:18:07] audiences, which I think is super striking for the conversation, is that the most listened to podcasts
[00:18:11] on the entire planet were horror and comedy and
[00:18:14] those are exactly the bases that the right uses to promote all its
[00:18:18] discourses, horror talking about what scares you, does the LGBTQ+ community scare you,
[00:18:21] well, now we put it in the horror box, do women scare you, well
[00:18:25] let's put them here, how do I handle it and how do I say it with comedy, and if the
[00:18:29] left doesn't laugh at your joke, but how
[00:18:32] can you not laugh, you are too serious when the things that
[00:18:36] have humor and comedy. and horror are the ones that are most popular on these platforms,
[00:18:40] which would seem like a market thing, but it is
[00:18:43] exactly the mechanism that politicians are currently
[00:18:46] using to transmit these messages, no, which is interesting,
[00:18:50] striking the podcast market and the influencers that are
[00:18:54] so popular now. Emerson, well, I
[00:18:57] agree that rebellion became
[00:19:00] right-wing, and I think
[00:19:04] that the right has challenged the left.
[00:19:07] the capacity for indignation in the face of
[00:19:10] reality and in that sense I believe that
[00:19:13] this ingredient of how they incorporate
[00:19:17] themselves to demonstrate, to
[00:19:20] protest, I think it is a much longer,
[00:19:23] broader phenomenon, yes, that
[00:19:26] is, you were talking about these characters,
[00:19:29] not mercenaries, there is one that I think is also worth mentioning,
[00:19:33] who is called Robert Mercer, who is
[00:19:36] this, let's say, computer scientist
[00:19:39] who was one of the
[00:19:43] main investors in Cambridge
[00:19:46] Analytica in 2013, yes, but this guy, let's say,
[00:19:49] is a kind of
[00:19:52] mask of, or rather Steve Bannon is the mask of
[00:19:55] this Robert Mercer, that is to say, he is the
[00:19:58] screen, Bannon is the screen of Robert Mercer, not
[00:20:02] from that, let's
[00:20:05] say, the specific story in the United States of Bannon and
[00:20:09] Mercer has to do with the transformation of the same
[00:20:13] American right,
[00:20:16] it was supposedly left-wing, what does that mean? That from 2008,
[00:20:20] that is, there are several analysts who point to 2008 as the turning point,
[00:20:23] of course the economic crisis in the United States, the world
[00:20:27] economic crisis, but there is a deep
[00:20:31] transformation of the Republican Party and the conservative
[00:20:35] right in the United States that gives rise to the Tea Party which
[00:20:38] is. a kind of rebellion within the American
[00:20:41] right, from that moment is when Steve
[00:20:45] Bannon with Andrew Breitbart, who
[00:20:48] founded the Breitbart news portal, which
[00:20:51] was later directed by Steve Bannon, who found that
[00:20:54] there was a foothold for a right that had been marginalized for years
[00:20:58] in the Republican Party, that is, those who did not
[00:21:03] the American right and it was a sector that had a lot of
[00:21:07] digital activity, which also in 2008, let's say it was not the
[00:21:11] same as now, no, it was just starting Occupy
[00:21:15] Wall Street, Tea Party, that is, blogs and podcasts were starting
[00:21:18] to be used. to activate
[00:21:22] digitally, no, so I think
[00:21:25] it is important to go back to that moment because it tells us about a long-term
[00:21:29] strategy, Bannon as well as Mercer are convinced
[00:21:32] that a metapolitical approach is needed, that is,
[00:21:36] we must go for the cultural to influence public
[00:21:40] political life, so it is a strategy that is a
[00:21:44] Gramscian slogan, that is,
[00:21:47] exactly, no, and the cultural battle. I think that in that
[00:21:50] sense the right is why it anticipated these cultural
[00:21:54] and social interaction processes to
[00:21:58] bring certain characters to power, no, Bannon
[00:22:01] himself acknowledges that Donald Trump strangely, he is not a
[00:22:05] conservative, that is, he does not fit the mold of the American
[00:22:08] right for a lot of reasons, for the life he
[00:22:11] led, for the lifestyle of a businessman, of
[00:22:15] women, in short, no, that is, he did not
[00:22:19] the. American conservative, but there was something in
[00:22:22] this community, that's where he says
[00:22:26] Ernesto mentioned, he didn't build a medium for the
[00:22:29] right, he built an ecosystem for the right
[00:22:32] and it's a crusade that I think has been going on for a long time,
[00:22:35] that is, these last symptoms in
[00:22:38] Brazil, we have seen it for several years since
[00:22:42] Brexit in Europe, that is, from my point of view, they are the
[00:22:46] culmination of a process that the right has been
[00:22:49] cultivating and nurturing for many
[00:22:52] years, so it's not just that they put a lot of
[00:22:56] money to change the public conversation in an election where there is
[00:22:59] disinformation, fake news and there is mud from both sides, no,
[00:23:02] but that there is, from my point of view, a cultural
[00:23:06] crusade that
[00:23:09] they started long before the left and that
[00:23:13] that is, the reality coincides also
[00:23:16] at a time when in Latin America there were left-wing governments. That is,
[00:23:20] this beginning to sow this
[00:23:23] type of digital right-wing hatred begins at a time
[00:23:27] when the pink tide is in Latin America, there is Kirchner, there is Lula,
[00:23:30] there is, except Mexico,
[00:23:33] except Mexico, because Mexico is a inverse process,
[00:23:36] one is a topic we discussed with Gustavo, that Mexico
[00:23:40] experienced its far-right early in
[00:23:44] 2006, of course with Calderón, that is, with
[00:23:47] Calderón begins, shall we say, uh,
[00:23:50] it doesn't begin, the
[00:23:52] resources from electronic
[00:23:55] and mass media are deployed,
[00:23:59] and the
[00:24:02] hate campaign against López Obrador, that is to say, and with
[00:24:05] all the language, let's say, that now that
[00:24:09] I saw it on screen again,
[00:24:12] I said, this man named Felipe Calderón was able to govern this country with
[00:24:15] that string of
[00:24:18] well, of nonsense and
[00:24:20] lies because they are lies, right? Uh, for example, saying
[00:24:24] that the opposition in Mexico should copy
[00:24:27] Venezuela, you say, well, what is he talking about, what does he have to copy
[00:24:31] from Venezuela, if in Venezuela what Trump did was annihilate the
[00:24:35] political class of the opposition and the government, but
[00:24:39] that is perhaps a thesis, I don't know what you think, I think that
[00:24:42] even the methods, right, of interference
[00:24:45] have become more sophisticated, of course, thanks to new
[00:24:48] technologies. 2006, it must be said, was a
[00:24:52] lawfare against López Obrador, the first in the region,
[00:24:56] no, more aggressive, exactly, because it
[00:24:59] prevented the arrival of López Obrador to
[00:25:03] power, and I think that, for example, in the
[00:25:05] Brazilian case, it is important to point out, not
[00:25:09] only that Lula has had political electoral desgaste for
[00:25:13] many years, it comes from having
[00:25:17] had a government of succession.
[00:25:29] there was an attempt to take replicated
[00:25:32] from Washington, from the Capitol, that is, the Bannon method appears
[00:25:35] there, the taking of the three powers
[00:25:39] in Brazil in January 2023,
[00:25:43] that is to say, it comes from a
[00:25:46] at the polls fair and square, Lula still in another attempt. And again
[00:25:50] he is a candidate, that is, I think it comes, that is, for him to be two points behind
[00:25:54] after the governments and the contests he had, and
[00:25:57] let's say, and an apparatus from the United States against him, the truth is that
[00:26:01] it also seems to me a... an achievement, right? That is,
[00:26:04] I think that in the way
[00:26:07] in which from this circle, I think where
[00:26:11] technological giants and millionaire
[00:26:15] contracts are mixed, that is to say, the digital
[00:26:17] right, the right,
[00:26:20] in the digital world is successful not
[00:26:24] only because it is attractive, because it is seductive, because it also
[00:26:27] disputes rebellion with the left, but because it is a great business
[00:26:31] and they know that. in Spain with
[00:26:35] Vox, with Le Pen, he knows with Brexit, that
[00:26:38] is, why a big question, why after
[00:26:42] Brexit triumphs in the United Kingdom, Nigel Farage
[00:26:46] does not become prime minister of the United Kingdom, that is to
[00:26:49] say, he goes to the sewers, that is, it was something very focused, very
[00:26:53] segmented on a
[00:26:57] destabilization operation of Europe, right, exactly, let's go to a
[00:27:00] break and now we'll go to the... questions, of all the
[00:27:03] questions, will
[00:27:07] is happening in relation to Mexico with the other
[00:27:10] Latin American countries, leave us, we return to the public
[00:27:13] debate,
[00:27:21] who we are is something that we show with
[00:27:23] pride,
[00:27:26] that's how I recognize myself, Quintín Oltic
[00:27:29] Inchivali, that's how I identify myself. INE
[00:27:32] recognizes you, asks you to include your self-perceived gender identity or choose to
[00:27:36] show this data, also if you identify as an indigenous or
[00:27:39] Afro-Mexican person, and on the back with the new QR code data, your voter ID
[00:27:43] becomes more reliable. Your INE updates with you, the
[00:27:47] INE with you always.
[00:27:50] Do you know what happens when the government thinks of the people? The minimum
[00:27:54] wage increases and poverty decreases. In
[00:27:57] 2018, the minimum wage was 2,800
[00:28:01] pesos per month or 8 years later it is
[00:28:04] 9,584 pesos per month. With this, we have
[00:28:08] achieved that labor poverty is at its historical
[00:28:11] minimum since 2005.
[00:28:14] With honesty, we give results.
[00:28:18] Government of Mexico. These are the five good news about the
[00:28:22] performance of the Mexican economy. First, the
[00:28:25] minimum wage increased and labor poverty is at its
[00:28:28] minimum. Second, we are among the countries with the lowest unemployment
[00:28:32] in the world. Third, inflation and the cost of the basic
[00:28:36] basket decreased. Fourth, the peso is one of the strongest
[00:28:39] currencies in the world. Fifth, a record year for foreign
[00:28:42] direct investment and there have been no gasolinazos. With
[00:28:46] honesty, we give results, government of
[00:28:49] Mexico.
[00:28:56] We return to the public debate. We are
[00:28:59] talking, discerning, describing
[00:29:03] digital rights and obviously the political-electoral
[00:29:06] phenomenon that this has generated, for now in
[00:29:10] Latin America, but not only in Latin America, there is also the case of
[00:29:14] Spain, there is the case of uh Germany, very serious
[00:29:17] too, uh, in short, in
[00:29:20] Japan, it's not, uh,
[00:29:24] it doesn't happen only in one region of the world, it's something that is
[00:29:28] globalizing now in
[00:29:31] real terms. The
[00:29:34] question at this moment
[00:29:38] makes Mexico exceptional
[00:29:41] to the wave of victories of the
[00:29:44] far-right in Latin America,
[00:29:47] or if that far-right is
[00:29:50] really advancing in Mexico and we don't see it, we are not
[00:29:54] underestimating it.
[00:29:56] Gustavo, I see two elements: one, the social base of the Fourth
[00:30:00] Transformation, I think it has advanced
[00:30:02] in basic rights for young people, "Youth Building the Future" has a high
[00:30:06] percentage of young people who integrate into a job, Benito
[00:30:10] Juárez scholarships, universities, I think
[00:30:12] that social base is a containment against
[00:30:16] easy discourses, although they exist in Mexico and are impacting. The other
[00:30:19] I think is economic. I think the economic integration we have with
[00:30:25] economic moment that the United States is experiencing, I think it is a
[00:30:29] dam that prevents
[00:30:32] the United States from daring to go stronger in these discourses and in
[00:30:36] these campaigns in our country. So the United States restrains itself. I think
[00:30:40] at the moment it cuts ties basically with Europe, with Canada
[00:30:43] and and your your really your only strong commercial partner left
[00:30:47] is Mexico, it is convenient for there to be political stability in the
[00:30:51] country and it restrains itself from advancing
[00:30:54] more strongly against those discourses and
[00:30:58] I think there we have a