CBCNEWS — CBC Newsroom With Marianne Dimain
20260808 143000 UTC
336 transcript segments
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[00:00:00] >> ON THE ADVICE OF COUNSEL, I
[00:00:02] RESPECTFULLY DECLINE TO ANSWER
[00:00:05] BASED ON MY RIGHTS UNDER THE
[00:00:09] FIFTH AMENDMENT OF THE
[00:00:10] CONSTITUTION.
[00:00:18] >> Reporter: SUPER AWKWARD.
[00:00:22] BUT IS IT ILLEGAL?
[00:00:26] >> THERE WILL BE REPERCUSSIONS TO YOUR REFUSAL TO TESTIFY TODAY. >> CONTEMPT FOR THIS BODY AND
[00:00:29] CONTEMPT FOR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. >> BREAKING NEWS THIS MORNING, THE SENATE HOMELAND AND
[00:00:33] GOVERNMENT AFFAIRS COMMITTEE VOTED TO HOLD Dr. ANTHONY FAUCI IN CONTEMPT OF CONGRESS. >> Reporter: REPUBLICANS UNDER
[00:00:37] DONALD TRUMP DECLARED FRESH WAR ON THE MAN WHO BASICALLY OVERNIGHT WAS SUDDENLY THE MOST INFLUENTIAL AND PROMINENT PUBLIC
[00:00:41] HEALTH VOICE DURING THE PANDEMIC. NOW HE WON'T TELL THEM A THING. HOW LONG CAN HE KEEP THAT UP?
[00:00:44] >> WHO THE (BEEP) DO YOU THINK YOU ARE FOR DOING THAT?
[00:00:48] >> Reporter: MANY REPUBLICANS
[00:00:51] AND THEIR SUPPORTERS DO NOT LIKE ANTHONY FAUCI.
[00:00:54] BUT FEW HAVE SO CONSISTENTLY MADE AN ENEMY OF HIM OVER SUCH A LONG PERIOD OF TIME AS RAND
[00:00:58] PAUL.
[00:01:01] >> INSTEAD OF AN APOLOGY, YOU HAVE FOR YEARS AVOIDED RESPONSIBILITY.
[00:01:04] YOU DID NOT TELL THE AMERICAN
[00:01:05] PEOPLE THE FULL STORY.
[00:01:11] >> Reporter: RAND PAUL IS THE REPUBLICAN CHAIR OF A SENATE HOMELAND SECURITY COMMITTEE THAT SUBPOENAED ANTHONY FAUCI TO
[00:01:14] TESTIFY. JUST LAST WEEK, OVER I WOULD SAY
[00:01:18] TWO MAIN QUESTIONS, THAT EVEN ALL THESE YEARS AFTER THE PANDEMIC HE STILL FEELS ARE
[00:01:20] UNANSWERED.
[00:01:24] ONE, DID FAUCI TRY TO PUSH THIS IDEA THAT COVID COULDN'T HAVE
[00:01:27] COME FROM A CHINESE LAB EVEN
[00:01:29] WHEN HE THOUGHT MAYBE IT DID?
[00:01:36] AND TWO, DID FAUCI LIE ABOUT WHETHER THE U.S. GAVE MONEY TO
[00:01:39] CREATE THIS VIRUS THAT WOULD ULTIMATELY KILL MORE THAN A
[00:01:41] MILLION AMERICANS?
[00:01:44] FAUCI DENIES THESE CLAIMS. AND HERE IS ONE OF THE ONLY THINGS HE SAID AT HIS HEARING
[00:01:48] LAST WEEK.
[00:01:50] >> THE SOLE REASON HE IS CALLING ME BEFORE THIS COMMITTEE IS TO
[00:01:54] GET ME TO SAY SOMETHING,
[00:01:58] ANYTHING, THAT COULD VINDICATE
[00:02:07] HIS REPEATED PUBLIC PLEDGES THAT I END UP IN HIS WORDS, QUOTE, BEHIND BARS, UNQUOTE.
[00:02:10] ANY REASONABLE PERSON WHO HAS
[00:02:13] FOLLOWED HIS UNHINGED OBSESSION WITH ME WOULD READILY COME TO
[00:02:16] THE SAME CONCLUSION.
[00:02:19] >> Reporter: AND SO IT BEGAN. >> CAN YOU EXPLAIN TO THE
[00:02:22] COMMITTEE WHY YOU CHOSE TO FUND THIS DANGEROUS RESEARCH IN
[00:02:25] CHINA?
[00:02:29] >> ON THE ADVICE OF COUNSEL, I
[00:02:29] RESPECTFULLY DECLINE TO ANSWER.
[00:02:37] >> Dr. FAUCI DID THE C.I.A. TRANSFER FUNDS TO NIH UNDER AN
[00:02:38] INTERAGENCY AGREEMENT.
[00:02:41] Dr. FAUCI WERE THE SCIENTISTS
[00:02:43] AVAILABLE OF INSERTING A SITE
[00:02:47] INTO A CORONA VIRUS? LAB INVESTIGATORS, DID THEY
[00:02:50] APPEAR IN THE LABS TO MAKE SURE
[00:02:51] THEY WERE SAFE LABS?
[00:02:54] >> ON THE ADVICE OF COUNSEL, I RESPECTFULLY DECLINE -- >> Reporter: AND YOU GET THE
[00:02:57] IDEA. >> THE REPUBLICANS ARE ACCUSING
[00:03:01] Dr. FAUCI OF BEING IN CONTEMPT
[00:03:02] OF CONGRESS BECAUSE HE REFUSED
[00:03:06] TO ANSWER QUESTIONS AND INVOKED HIS FIFTH AMENDMENT PRIVILEGE
[00:03:08] AND THE REPUBLICANS ARE SAYING
[00:03:10] YOU CAN'T DO THAT BECAUSE YOU'VE BEEN GIVEN A PARDON BY PRESIDENT
[00:03:14] BIDEN WHICH COVERS YOUR CULPABILITY AND YOU'RE NOT
[00:03:18] ALLOWED TO INVOKE THE FIFTH. >> Reporter: YES, ORDINARILY,
[00:03:22] AN AMERICAN'S FIFTH AMENDMENT
[00:03:24] RIGHT IS TO REMAIN SILENT, TO
[00:03:28] AVOID SELF INCRIMINATION, AND YOU CAN DO THAT BY NOT ANSWERING QUESTIONS.
[00:03:32] EXCEPT REPUBLICANS SAY HANG ON,
[00:03:34] JOE BIDEN WHEN HE WAS PRESIDENT
[00:03:36] GAVE YOU A PRE-EMPTIVE PARDON.
[00:03:39] >> BREAKING NEWS, PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN ANNOUNCED PARDONS IN HIS
[00:03:42] FINAL HOURS BEFORE DONALD TRUMP
[00:03:44] TAKES OFFICE.
[00:03:47] BIDEN ANNOUNCING THE PARDON OF Dr. ANTHONY FAUCI.
[00:03:51] >> Reporter: SO YOU'RE IMMUNE TO PROSECUTION, MEANING YOU CAN'T INVOKE THE RIGHT TO REMAIN SILENT SINCE THERE'S NO CHANCE
[00:03:55] OF SELF INCRIMINATION. SINCE THERE'S NO CHANCE OF PROSECUTION.
[00:03:58] >> YOU DON'T HAVE ANY RIGHTS UNDER THE FIFTH AMENDMENT BECAUSE YOU'VE BEEN PARDONED AS
[00:04:02] YOU VERY WELL KNOW.
[00:04:06] >> Reporter: SO TO AVOID QUESTIONING IN THIS WAY, THIS THEY SAY IS CONTEMPT.
[00:04:10] PUNISHABLE BY A FINE OF UP TO $100,000 AND OR UP TO A YEAR IN JAIL.
[00:04:14] >> WE'RE VOTING ON WHETHER A WITNESS WHO RECEIVED THE BENEFIT
[00:04:17] OF A SWEEPING FEDERAL PARDON CAN BE ORDERED BY THIS COMMITTEE TO
[00:04:20] ANSWER QUESTIONS. AND THEN DEFY THAT ORDER WITHOUT
[00:04:23] CONSEQUENCE. >> Reporter: THAT'S WHY AND HOW FAUCI IS UNDER LEGAL THREAT
[00:04:27] TODAY.
[00:04:31] BUT THE BIGGER QUESTION IS THE BIGGER THREAT BEYOND TODAY.
[00:04:33] [ ♪♪ ]
[00:04:40] IF YOU'RE SOMEONE WHO SEES ANTHONY FAUCI AS DANGEROUS, AS A
[00:04:44] VILLAIN, THE FIRST QUESTION YOU
[00:04:46] HAVE IS A VERY SERIOUS CHARGE.
[00:04:50] WHY PEDDLE THE LIE THAT COVID MADE A NATURAL JUMP FROM ANIMALS
[00:04:53] TO HUMANS? >> PUBLICLY ANTHONY FAUCI
[00:04:57] PROMOTED THE THEORY THAT THE
[00:04:59] VIRUS AROSE NATURALLY WHILE PRIVATELY HE WAS WELL AWARE OF A
[00:05:02] MOUNTAIN OF EVIDENCE SUGGESTING THE VIRUS ORIGINATED IN THE LAB.
[00:05:05] >> Reporter: THEY POINT TO FAUCI'S OWN DIARY ENTRIES
[00:05:09] WRITTEN IN THE EARLIEST DAYS OF
[00:05:10] THE PANDEMIC LIKE THIS ONE FROM
[00:05:16] JANUARY 26th, 2020. SO THIS IS BEFORE THE WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION IS EVEN WILLING TO CALL THIS AN
[00:05:19] INTERNATIONAL PUBLIC HEALTH EMERGENCY, NEVER MIND AN ACTUAL
[00:05:23] PANDEMIC WHICH WOULD COME MONTHS LATER. FAUCI WRITES ABOUT THE WET
[00:05:26] MARKET ORIGIN THEORY.
[00:05:29] NOW WE KNOW THE MARKET WAS NOT THE SOURCE, IT WAS THE AMPLIFIER.
[00:05:33] AND JUST FIVE DAYS LATER, HE WRITES HOW HIS COLLEAGUES
[00:05:36] STUDYING THE CORONA VIRUS
[00:05:39] ITSELF BELIEVE MUTATIONS IN ITS MAKE-UP
[00:05:41] COULD NOT HAVE OCCURRED
[00:05:45] NATURALLY AND THEY RAISED THE POSSIBILITY THAT THE FEATURES WERE DELIBERATELY INSERTED AND
[00:05:48] EITHER ACCIDENTALLY RELEASED OR DELIBERATELY RELEASED BY A CRAZY
[00:05:51] PERSON IN THE LAB.
[00:05:54] REPUBLICANS LIKE RAND PAUL SAY THIS IS EVIDENCE THAT FAUCI AND
[00:05:57] HIS COLLEAGUES WERE PRIVATELY
[00:06:00] ENTERTAINING THIS LAB LEAK THEORY WHILE DENYING IT IN
[00:06:02] PUBLIC. FAUCI SAYS THAT'S NOT QUITE
[00:06:06] RIGHT. HE'S OFTEN LEANED ONE WAY BUT
[00:06:09] NEVER LIED.
[00:06:11] >> WE KEEP A COMPLETELY OPEN
[00:06:13] MIND AS TO WHAT THE ORIGIN IS.
[00:06:16] HAVING SAID THAT, IF YOU LOOK AT THE EXAMINATION BY HIGHLY
[00:06:20] QUALIFIED INTERNATIONAL
[00:06:22] SCIENTISTS WITH NO POLITICAL
[00:06:26] AGENDAS, THEY PUBLISHED IN PEER
[00:06:31] REVIEW JOURNALS, THE BEST OF THE PEER REVIEW JOURNALS, THAT THE EVIDENCE IS QUITE STRONG THIS IS
[00:06:35] A NATURAL OCCURRENCE. >> Reporter: FAUCI SAID HIS
[00:06:37] OBJECTION WAS ONLY AGAINST
[00:06:42] PEOPLE WHO SAID THE LAB LEAK THEORY WAS UNEQUIVOCALLY TRUE WHEN THEY HAD NO WAY OF KNOWING
[00:06:45] AND THAT WHEN PEOPLE ACCUSE HIM OF A COVERUP, POINTING AT
[00:06:48] POSITIONS LIKE THIS PUBLISHED IN
[00:06:49] MAY OF 2020, THEY'RE REALLY JUST MISREPRESENTING HIS POSITION AS
[00:06:53] BEING ENTIRELY ONE-SIDED.
[00:06:56] IN REALITY, THOUGH, OPINION ON THE TRUE ORIGIN OF COVID-19 IS
[00:06:59] SPLIT.
[00:07:02] EARLY ON, THE PREVAILING THEORY
[00:07:11] WAS IT WAS MOST LIKELY A CASE OF NATURAL ANIMAL TO HUMAN
[00:07:15] TRANSMISSION IN WUHAN, CHINA A FOR YEARS, THE U.S. INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY WAS UNSURE. FROM THIS GOVERNMENT REPORT IN 2023, AT LEAST FIVE INTELLIGENCE
[00:07:18] AGENCIES BELIEVED THIS WAS JUST A CASE OF THE VIRUS EVOLVING
[00:07:22] FROM INFECTED ANIMALS TO
[00:07:25] INFECTING HUMANS BUT THE DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY AND THE F.B.I. LEANED TOWARDS THE LAB
[00:07:28] LEAK THEORY.
[00:07:38] INCONCLUSIVE. THOUGH LATER ON IT WOULD LEAN MORE TOWARDS COVID'S ORIGIN BEING IN A LAB. THE WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION
[00:07:41] NOT SO SURE. THE WORK TO UNDERSTAND THE ORIGINS OF SARS CoV-2 REMAINS
[00:07:43] UNFINISHED.
[00:07:46] THE ORIGINS OF HOW IT ENTERED THE HUMAN POPULATION WILL REMAIN
[00:07:48] INCONCLUSIVE.
[00:07:51] DESPITE ALL THIS, REPUBLICANS
[00:07:53] INSIST A FAUCI COVERUP MAKES
[00:07:57] SENSE BECAUSE AMERICAN TAXPAYER
[00:07:59] MONEY UNDER FAUCI'S LEADERSHIP FUNDED SOME OF THE WORK GOING ON
[00:08:03] IN THAT LAB IN WUHAN. >> THE DECISION TO FUND
[00:08:06] DANGEROUS GAIN OF FUNCTION RESEARCH IN WUHAN, CHINA, WILL
[00:08:09] LIKELY GO DOWN IN HISTORY AS PERHAPS ONE OF THE WORST PUBLIC HEALTH DECISIONS.
[00:08:13] I HOPE TODAY Dr. FAUCI WILL
[00:08:16] COME CLEAN, ADMIT THE RISK OF
[00:08:17] THE DANGEROUS RESEARCH EXCEEDED
[00:08:22] POSSIBLE ANY BENEFITS, ASK FORGIVENESS. >> Reporter: AT THE RISK OF GOING DOWN ALL THE RABBIT HOLES,
[00:08:25] I WILL ANSWER THIS. DID FAUCI'S NATIONAL INSTITUTE
[00:08:29] OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES FUND CORONA VIRUS
[00:08:32] RESEARCH IN WUHAN?
[00:08:37] YES, IT DID. THIS IS NOT DISPUTED.
[00:08:40] A U.S. NON-PROFIT CALLED ECO HEALTH MANAGED TO SECURE
[00:08:44] OVER A PERIOD OF ABOUT 10 YEARS,
[00:08:44] A SERIES OF SEVEN GRANTS
[00:08:48] FROM NIAID TOTALLING MORE THAN $4 MILLION,
[00:08:52] STUDYING VERY SPECIFICALLY THE QUESTION OF BATS TRANSMITTING
[00:08:54] CORONA VIRUSES TO HUMANS IN
[00:08:58] CHINA.
[00:08:59] A PORTION OF THIS MONEY, ABOUT
[00:09:02] $600,000, DID GO TO THE WUHAN INSTITUTE OF VIROLOGY IN CHINA,
[00:09:06] BUT THE HARDER QUESTION TO
[00:09:07] ANSWER IS WHETHER THAT RESEARCH
[00:09:12] FUNDED AN EXPLICIT ATTEMPT TO MAKE ONE OF THESE VIRUSES BETTER AT INFECTING HUMANS.
[00:09:15] WHEN YOU HEAR PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT GAIN OF FUNCTION RESEARCH, THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE TALKING
[00:09:18] ABOUT.
[00:09:20] >> THE NIH HAS NOT EVER AND DOES
[00:09:23] NOT NOW FUND GAIN OF FUNCTION
[00:09:26] RESEARCH IN THE WUHAN INSTITUTE. >> Reporter: FAUCI HAS LONG
[00:09:30] MAINTAINED THAT U.S. FUNDED RESEARCH IN CHINA DID NOT
[00:09:34] PRODUCE ANYTHING GENETICALLY CLOSE ENOUGH TO BE THE DIRECT
[00:09:37] CAUSE OF THE PANDEMIC.
[00:09:39] BUT, AGAIN, THE REPUBLICAN CHARGE HERE IS IMMENSE WHICH IS
[00:09:43] THAT IF THE U.S. GOVERNMENT
[00:09:45] UNDER FAUCI'S LEADERSHIP HAD NOT
[00:09:47] HELPED CHINA IN ITS RESEARCH,
[00:09:50] THE GLOBAL PANDEMIC MIGHT NEVER HAVE HAPPENED TO BEGIN WITH.
[00:09:54] >> YOU'VE NEVER ADMITTED THAT IT COULD HAVE BEEN A MISTAKE
[00:09:56] FUNDING THIS RESEARCH IN CHINA.
[00:09:58] NO SCIENTIST IS ABOVE SCRUTINY.
[00:10:05] >> Reporter: SO HERE'S THE THING. I'M NOT EXPLAINING AND
[00:10:08] RE-OPENING THIS WHOLE WHO CAUSED THE PANDEMIC DEBATE TO TRY TO COME TO SOME SORT OF CONCLUSION
[00:10:12] ON THE MATTER.
[00:10:15] I RAISE IT ONLY TO SHOW YOU HOW HIGH THE STAKES ARE AND HOW
[00:10:18] SERIOUS SOME ELEMENTS OF THE
[00:10:20] TRUMP ADMINISTRATION ARE ABOUT PROSECUTING ANTHONY FAUCI PARDON
[00:10:23] OR NO PARDON.
[00:10:28] >> IT'S VERY CLEAR FROM STATEMENTS THAT WERE MADE BY
[00:10:29] REPUBLICANS DURING THE HEARINGS
[00:10:32] AND AFTER AND OUTSIDE OF THOSE
[00:10:34] HEARINGS THAT THEY INTEND TO USE HIM AS A POSTER CHILD FOR WHAT
[00:10:38] TOOK PLACE IN THE UNITED STATES DURING THE COVID ERA.
[00:10:42] >> Reporter: THIS POSSIBILITY
[00:10:47] THAT VENGEFUL REPUBLICANS WILL FIND SOME WAY, ANY WAY, TO
[00:10:50] PROSECUTE FAUCI DESPITE HIS
[00:10:53] PARDON... >> SENATOR PAUL YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT QUITE FRANKLY AND I WANT TO SAY THAT OFFICIALLY.
[00:10:57] YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.
[00:11:01] IF ANYBODY IS LYING HERE,
[00:11:03] SENATOR, IT IS YOU.
[00:11:05] >> Reporter: THIS IS WHAT
[00:11:07] POWERS FAUCI'S FIFTH AMENDMENT
[00:11:11] DEFENCE BECAUSE WHILE THE PARDON WOULD APPEAR TO PROTECT HIM FROM
[00:11:13] ANY OF HIS PUBLIC ACTIONS OVER A
[00:11:15] FAIRLY WIDE 10 YEAR PERIOD, IT
[00:11:18] DOESN'T EXTEND TO ANYTHING HE
[00:11:21] MIGHT SAY OR ADMIT TO NOW AND SURE ENOUGH, PROSECUTORS IN
[00:11:24] TRUMP FRIENDLY PARTS OF THE
[00:11:26] COUNTRY AT THE STATE LEVEL FROM
[00:11:30] ALABAMA TO FLORIDA, ANOTHER RED
[00:11:33] STATE, AND LOUISIANA, TOO, THERE IS AN INCREASING TIDE OF LEGAL
[00:11:37] ACTION BUILDING AGAINST FAUCI.
[00:11:40] SO WHEN SUMMONED BEFORE
[00:11:42] CONGRESS, HE SHUTS DOWN.
[00:11:45] BUT FOR HOW LONG HE CAN CONTINUE
[00:11:47] THAT STRATEGY DEPENDS ENTIRELY
[00:11:49] ON HOW DETERMINED THIS ADMINISTRATION IS TO MAKE HIM
[00:11:52] PAY.
[00:11:57] >> Paul: FAUCI'S FATE IS NOW
[00:12:00] IN THE HANDS OF THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT AND WHILE IT'S NOT DUTY-BOUND TO
[00:12:03] FOLLOW A CRIMINAL REFERRAL FROM
[00:12:04] CONGRESS, DEMOCRATS ACCUSED IT
[00:12:08] OF PURSUING POLITICALLY MOTIVATED PROSECUTIONS DURING
[00:12:12] TRUMP'S SECOND TERM. >>> COMING UP...
[00:12:16] OUR WILLY LOWRY GETS A BEHIND THE SCENES LOOK AT U.S. BORDER
[00:12:18] PATROL ENFORCEMENT IN DETROIT.
[00:12:21] >> NOT, IT'S REALLY NOT THAT BIG OF A PROBLEM FOR INBOUND. >> YEAH.
[00:12:23] >> A LOT OF THE STUFF WE GET IS
[00:12:26] GOING OUT BOUND.
[00:12:30] >> YOU MEAN GOING FROM THE U.S. INTO CANADA. >> EXACTLY.
[00:12:33] >> Paul: WHAT CUSTOMS AGENTS ARE ACTUALLY SEEING AT THE BORDER NEXT.
[00:15:45] >> Paul: LAST YEAR, U.S. PRESIDENT TRUMP DECLARED NATIONAL EMERGENCIES AT BOTH THE SOUTHERN AND NORTHERN BORDERS USING THE FENTANYL CRISIS AS
[00:15:48] JUSTIFICATION FOR TARIFFS.
[00:15:52] THE CBC'S WILLY LOWRY GOT A BEHIND THE SCENES LOOK AT HOW
[00:15:54] THE U.S. PROTECTS ITS BORDER WITH CANADA AT THAT BRAND NEW CROSSING, THE GORDIE HOWE
[00:15:58] BRIDGE.
[00:16:03] >> Reporter: THIS IS THE BRAND NEW U.S. PORT OF ENTRY FACILITY
[00:16:06] AT THE GORDIE HOWE INTERNATIONAL
[00:16:08] BRIDGE, PAID FOR ENTIRELY BY
[00:16:11] CANADA AS PART OF THE $6.4 BILLION CONSTRUCTION COST
[00:16:14] FOR THE BRIDGE.
[00:16:17] IT'S MASSIVE.
[00:16:20] 400,000 SQUARE FEET, IT SITS ON
[00:16:24] NEARLY 170 ACRES OF LAND. >> WE'RE THE LARGEST NORTHERN
[00:16:26] BORDER PORT.
[00:16:29] >> Reporter: U.S. CUSTOMS AND BORDER PROTECTION INVITED THE
[00:16:32] CBC AND A HANDFUL OF OTHER NEWS
[00:16:34] OUTLETS TO TOUR THE FACILITY.
[00:16:39] WE GOT A BEHIND THE SCENES LOOK AT HOW THE U.S. ENFORCES THEIR
[00:16:41] NORTHERN BORDER.
[00:16:46] FROM THE SKY TO THE WATER...
[00:16:48] AND THERE'S LOTS OF WATER.
[00:16:53] THE DETROIT SECTOR COVERS 1,388 KILOMETRES OF THE BORDER, ALL OF
[00:16:56] IT ON THE WATER.
[00:16:59] THIS IS PART OF DAILY PATROLS PERFORMED BY U.S. CUSTOMS AND
[00:17:02] BORDER PROTECTION ALONG THE DETROIT RIVER AS WELL AS IN THE
[00:17:06] GREAT LAKES. THEY'RE LOOKING FOR PLEASURE CRAFTS THAT ARE OPERATING
[00:17:09] SUSPICIOUSLY. >> FROM THE MOUTH UP HERE TO THE
[00:17:13] BRIDGE. ONE OF THE TOP SMUGGLING ROUTES
[00:17:17] IN ALL OF THE UNITED STATES. >> HOW MANY BOATS TODAY?
[00:17:20] EVERY BOAT COULD BE A SMUGGLER.
[00:17:24] UNLESS WE STOP EVERY SINGLE BOAT. SO YOU HAVE TO USE INTELLIGENCE
[00:17:27] AND PARTNERSHIPS TO SECURE THE
[00:17:31] AREA UP HERE. >> CANADA'S VERY BAD ABUSER.
[00:17:35] >> Reporter: WHEN U.S. PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP FIRST SLAPPED TARIFFS ON CANADA, HE CITED THE COUNTRY'S INABILITY TO
[00:17:38] PREVENT DRUGS AND HUMAN TRAFFICKERS FROM POURING ACROSS THE BORDER INTO THE U.S. AS
[00:17:42] JUSTIFICATION, CALLING IT A
[00:17:43] NATIONAL EMERGENCY.
[00:17:48] BUT THE REALITY ON THE GROUND IN MICHIGAN IS A LOT MORE
[00:17:51] COMPLICATED THAN THAT. >> NO, IT'S REALLY NOT THAT BIG
[00:17:54] OF A PROBLEM FOR INBOUND. >> YEAH.
[00:17:58] >> A LOT OF THE STUFF WE GET IS
[00:18:01] GOING OUTBOUND.
[00:18:05] >> WHEN YOU SAY OUT BOUND, GOING >> WHEN YOU SAY OUT BOUND, GOING FROM THE U.S. INTO CANADA.
[00:18:09] >> EXACTLY. >> Reporter: THE SAME WITH GUNS? >> LOOK, THE GUNS ARE GOING TO BE MAINLY --
[00:18:13] >> COMING FROM HERE TO CANADA.
[00:18:14] >> WELL, NOT EXACTLY.
[00:18:17] THERE ARE WRONG TURNS. YOU GET A LOT OF PEOPLE MAKING
[00:18:20] WRONG TURNS THAT ARE TURNING ON TO THE BRIDGE AND TURNING INTO
[00:18:23] THE TUNNEL AND SUBSEQUENT
[00:18:25] VEHICLE SEARCHES ACTUALLY RESULT
[00:18:28] IN FINDING WEAPONS. >> Reporter: WHILE SOME
[00:18:31] AMERICANS MAY BE ACCIDENTALLY
[00:18:33] BRINGING WEAPONS ACROSS, THERE
[00:18:35] IS ALSO A ROBUST ILLEGAL TRADE.
[00:18:38] IN 2024, NEARLY 90 PERCENT OF
[00:18:40] GUNS RECOVERED IN CRIMES IN ONTARIO WERE TRACED BACK TO THE
[00:18:44] U.S. THIS BORDER EXPERT SAYS BOTH
[00:18:48] COUNTRIES POSE THREATS TO EACH OTHER. >> FIREARMS FOR SURE BUT ALSO
[00:18:52] THE UNITED STATES IS THE IN
[00:18:56] BETWEEN THE MIDDLE -- THE MIDDLE
[00:18:58] GROUND FOR DRUGS COMING UP INTO OUR COUNTRY FROM MEXICO AND FROM SOUTH AMERICA.
[00:19:02] GOING SOUTH, THE THREAT THAT WE
[00:19:07] POSE IS ACTUALLY THE PEOPLE WE LET IN ON TEMPORARY STATUS.
[00:19:11] >> Reporter: WHILE AUTHORITIES
[00:19:14] ON BOTH SIDES OF THE BORDER LOOK TO CURB ILLEGAL ACTIVITY, IT'S NOT A MAJOR CONCERN FOR MANY
[00:19:18] PEOPLE IN DETROIT.
[00:19:21] >> NO.
[00:19:25] I'VE LIVED IN DETROIT MY WHOLE LIFE. I THINK CANADA IS RATHER
[00:19:26] FRIENDLY.
[00:19:30] WHEN I WAS YOUNGER, WE'D GO OVER
[00:19:31] TO CANADA ALL THE TIME.
[00:19:35] IT WAS LIKE A LITTLE GETAWAY.
[00:19:36] >> AS LONG AS YOU KEEP YOUR SIDE
[00:19:41] CLEAN AND WE KEEP OURS CLEAN, WE'RE GOOD.
[00:19:45] >> I LOVE IT.
[00:19:52] IT'S UNFORTUNATE WHAT THE TWO COUNTRIES ARE GOING THROUGH WHAT THEY'RE GOING RIGHT NOW.
[00:19:56] HOPEFULLY THE POLITICIANS GET THEIR HEADS TOGETHER AND FIX IT BECAUSE THEY'VE BEEN A GOOD NEIGHBOUR. >> Reporter: DESPITE THE
[00:20:00] POLITICAL TENSIONS, U.S. OFFICIALS SAY THE WORKING RELATIONSHIP WITH THEIR CANADIAN COUNTERPARTS REMAINS UNCHANGED. >> LOCALLY WE HAVE GREAT
[00:20:04] PARTNERSHIPS WITH THE AGENCIES ACROSS THE WATER. >> Reporter: FOR NOW THOSE PARTNERSHIPS CONTINUE TO BRIDGE
[00:20:07] THE POLITICAL DIVIDE. SECURITY ON BOTH SIDES OF THE
[00:20:10] BORDER DEPENDS ON IT.
[00:20:16] IN 2025, U.S. BORDER OFFICIALS IN THE DETROIT SECTOR SEIZED
[00:20:20] MORE THAN 9300 POUNDS OF ILLEGAL DRUGS INCLUDING 33 POUNDS OF
[00:20:23] FENTANYL.
[00:20:28] THAT'S ACCORDING TO CBP, BUT
[00:20:31] STATISTICS DON'T REVEAL THE DIRECTION THE DRUGS WERE
[00:20:34] TRAVELING. AND A LOT OF THE DRUGS AND WEAPONS ARE FLOWING NORTH NOT
[00:20:37] SOUTH. >> Paul: WILLY, HOW DOES THAT
[00:20:40] COMPARE TO WHAT AGENTS SEE AT
[00:20:42] THE SOUTHERN BORDER WITH MEXICO?
[00:20:47] >> Reporter: YEAH, THEY'RE TWO DIFFERENT UNIVERSES.
[00:20:49] STATSCAN SAYS FROM 2022 TO 2025,
[00:20:54] ALMOST 71,000 POUNDS OF FENTANYL WAS SEIZED AT THE U.S. SOUTHERN
[00:20:56] BORDER.
[00:20:59] THAT'S COMPARED TO ONLY 134 POUNDS IN NORTHERN BORDER AREAS.
[00:21:02] >> Paul: THANK YOU, WILLY. THE CBC'S WILLY LOWRY IN
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