CBCNEWS — Live CBC Newsroom With Natasha Fatah
20261011 170000 UTC
464 transcript segments
Original Broadcaster Captioning (Enhanced)
Data courtesy of The GDELT Project (https://www.gdeltproject.org/), from the Internet Archive TV News Archive.
Machine transcription. Treat it as a searchable index of what was broadcast, not a verbatim quotation record.

[00:00:23] ♪♪ >> Rosemary: THIS SUNDAY ON "ROSEMARY BARTON LIVE" --
[00:00:24] >> THERE'S A GREAT DEAL OF COMMON.
[00:00:28] FIRST, WE'LL FOCUS ON THAT. >> Rosemary: CANADIAN CONCERNS. HOW WILL OTTAWA NAVIGATE A
[00:00:31] RELATIONSHIP WITH QUÉBEC'S NEW SEPARATIST GOVERNMENT. AND WITH A REFERENDUM IN
[00:00:35] ALBERTA, IS NATIONAL UNITY AT RISK? MINISTER OF INTERGOVERNMENTAL
[00:00:39] AFFAIRS DOMINIC LEBLANC IS HERE. >> THEY NEED TO COMPLY.
[00:00:42] IF NOT, WE'LL USE THE FULL FORCE OF THE LAW.
[00:00:46] >> Rosemary: STEEL RESOLVES. STELCO'S OWNER RESPONDS TO
[00:00:49] OTTAWA'S DEMAND, DISPUTING CLAIMS THEY'RE IN BREACH OF
[00:00:52] THEIR COMMITMENTS OVER PLANNED
[00:00:56] LAYOFFS. WHY EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW WITH CLEVELAND-CLIFFS C.E.O.
[00:00:59] >> IT'S UNDERMINING INVESTOR CERTAINTY. >> Rosemary: WITH ALBERTA'S VOTE
[00:01:03] JUST OVER ONE WEEK AWAY, CONCERNS OF FOREIGN
[00:01:06] INTERFERENCE, INCLUDING FROM THE RICHEST MAN IN THE WORLD. WHAT'S THE RESPONSE FROM PEOPLE
[00:01:09] INSIDE THE PROVINCE? FORMER ALBERTA PREMIER RACHEL NOTLEY JOINS ME.
[00:01:12] IT ALL STARTS NOW ON "ROSEMARY BARTON LIVE."
[00:01:15] ♪♪
[00:01:23] PRIME MINISTER MARK CARNEY IS HEADING TO ALBERTA THIS WEEK IN
[00:01:26] THE CRUCIAL FINAL DAYS AHEAD OF THE PROVINCE'S VOTE ON A
[00:01:29] REFERENDUM ON OCTOBER 19th. THAT VOTE COMES JUST TWO WEEKS
[00:01:33] AFTER THE SEPARATIST PARTI QUEBECOIS FORMED A MINORITY
[00:01:35] GOVERNMENT, PROMISING TO HOLD A
[00:01:38] REFERENDUM WHEN DONALD TRUMP LEAVES OFFICE IN 2029.
[00:01:41] AS CANADA FACES TWO POTENTIAL SOVEREIGNTY CHALLENGES, CARNEY
[00:01:45] SAYS THE FUTURE OF CANADA WILL
[00:01:46] BE DECIDED BY CANADIANS.
[00:01:50] >> Prime Minister Mark Carney: BUILDING A STRONG QUÉBEC WITHIN A STRONG CANADA AND A STRONG
[00:01:53] CANADA THAT MEANS MORE INDEPENDENT, MORE SOVEREIGN,
[00:01:56] MORE PROSPEROUS OBVIOUSLY.
[00:01:59] BUT ALSO -- SO WE CAN LIVE OUR
[00:02:02] LIVES AS WE CHOOSE IN QUÉBEC, IN CANADA. THAT.
[00:02:05] ARES OUR LANGUAGES, OUR CULTURE, OUR WAY OF LIFE.
[00:02:09] >> Rosemary: EARLIER I SPOKE TO THE MINISTER RESPONSIBLE FOR
[00:02:12] INTERGOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS DOMINIC LEBLANC ON HOW THE GOVERNMENT IS APPROACHING THE
[00:02:31] ON DIFFERENT TOPICS FOR YOU. I WANT TO START WITH QUÉBEC, IF
[00:02:34] I CAN.
[00:02:38] OBVIOUSLY THE P.Q. GOVERNMENT
[00:02:42] WON. THEY PROMISED TO HOLD A REFERENDUM ONCE TRUMP LEAVES OFFICE.
[00:02:46] THE PRIME MINISTER AND PLAMONDON SAID THEY'LL WORK TOGETHER.
[00:02:48] I WANT TO KNOW WHAT COOPERATIVE FEDERALISM LOOKS LIKE WHEN YOU
[00:02:52] HAVE A PREMIER WHO ALSO WANTS TO
[00:02:54] HOLD A REFERENDUM FOR SEPARATION
[00:03:01] YOU JUST SAID, ROSEMARY, AT SOME POINT.
[00:03:04] QUÉBECERS CHOSE A GOVERNMENT ON
[00:03:08] MONDAY EVENING. THEY EXPECT THE GOVERNMENT OF CANADA TO BE A PARTNER IN
[00:03:12] ADDRESSING THE PRIORITIES IN THE
[00:03:15] LIVES OF QUÉBECERS ON ISSUES
[00:03:17] THAT WERE ABSOLUTELY ALIGNED
[00:03:20] WITH MR. PLAMONDON. I KNOW IN THE PRIME MINISTER'S
[00:03:23] PHONE CALL WITH THE PREMIER-DESIGNATE THEY TALKED
[00:03:27] ABOUT THINGS LIKE HOMELESSNESS. A HUGE CHALLENGE.
[00:03:30] IT WAS A BIG ISSUE IN THE QUÉBEC ELECTION. >> Rosemary: YEP.
[00:03:33] >> WE'RE ABSOLUTELY ALIGNED IN WANTING TO WORK WITH HIM ON THAT. INFRASTRUCTURE.
[00:03:37] THE CANADA-U.S. TARIFF CONTEXT.
[00:03:42] THERE'S A GREAT DEAL OF COMMON INTERESTS. WE'LL START BY FOCUSING ON THAT.
[00:03:46] AND THE COMING MONTHS AND THE
[00:03:48] COMING YEARS WILL BRING OTHER TALES.
[00:03:50] WE'RE NOT STARTING FROM A HYPOTHETICAL CIRCUMSTANCE TWO,
[00:03:54] THREE YEARS FROM NOW. >> Rosemary: HE IS, HOWEVER, --
[00:03:58] MR. PLAMONDON TALKING ABOUT GETTING RID OF THE MONARCHY IN QUÉBEC.
[00:04:01] NOT JUST THE OATH TO THE KING, WHICH AS YOU KNOW HAS BEEN AN
[00:04:04] ISSUE IN THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY.
[00:04:22] HE CAN -- HE CAN DISCUSS THOSE ISSUES.
[00:04:25] WE DON'T THINK THEY'RE HUGE PRIORITIES FOR QUÉBECERS. AND MY UNDERSTANDING IS IN THE
[00:04:29] CONVERSATION WITH THE PRIME MINISTER, THEY DIDN'T SPEND A LOT OF TIME ON THAT ISSUE.
[00:04:33] IN FACT, DIDN'T DISCUSS IT AT ALL.
[00:04:36] >> Rosemary: ALBERTA ALSO -- JUST OVER A WEEK IS FACING THIS
[00:04:40] REFERENDUM. THAT'S NEXT ON MONDAY -- NEXT MONDAY RATHER.
[00:04:44] AND THE PRIME MINISTER AND OTHERS HAVE SAID THAT YOU'RE
[00:04:46] TRACKING ALLEGATIONS OF FOREIGN INTERFERENCE.
[00:04:53] MORE INTENSE THAN YOU WOULD HAVE EXPECTED? LIKE THE INTEREST FROM FOREIGN
[00:04:56] ACTORS IS MORE INTENSE GIVEN THE
[00:05:00] SITUATION. >> YEAH. I DON'T -- I DON'T THINK IT'S
[00:05:04] MORE INTENSE THAN WE WOULD HAVE EXPECTED.
[00:05:08] WE HAVE FOR SOME TIME BEEN AWARE
[00:05:12] OF DIFFERENT FOREIGN ACTORS THAT
[00:05:15] SEEK TO INTERFERE IN DEMOCRATIC PROCESSES IN CANADA.
[00:05:18] IT'S NOT NEW. >> Rosemary: SURE. >> IT'S NEW IN TERMS OF THE LAST
[00:05:22] NUMBER OF YEARS.
[00:05:24] WE'RE WORKING IN ALBERTA WITH ELECTIONS ALBERTA.
[00:05:28] THE SECURITY AND INTELLIGENCE SERVICES, CSIS AMONG OTHERS.
[00:05:32] IN FACT, PARLIAMENT CHANGED THE LAW A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO WITH THE SUPPORT OF MOST OF THE
[00:05:36] PARTIES, IF NOT ALL OF THEM, I THINK THE HOUSE OF COMMONS, FOR
[00:05:39] GIVE CSIS THE ABILITY TO SHARE INFORMATION WITH PROVINCIAL
[00:05:43] PARTNERS. SO THAT'S AN ONGOING EFFORT.
[00:05:47] FEDEAT THE END OF THE DAY, ROSE,
[00:05:49] I'M VERY, VERY CONFIDENT THAT
[00:05:52] THESE DIAGNOSES, IF -- THESE
[00:05:55] DECISIONS ARE MADE BY CANADIANS WHO GO TO POLLING STATIONS AND
[00:05:58] CAST THEIR BALLOTS. >> Rosemary: EXCEPT PART OF THE PROBLEM HERE IS THAT SOME OF THE
[00:06:02] CALLS ARE COMING FROM INSIDE THE HOUSE, RIGHT.
[00:06:05] SOME OF THE CENTIMETRES HAVE
[00:06:08] REPORT -- SEPARATISTS HAVE MET
[00:06:10] WITH OFFICIALS IN THE U.S., PROMISING THEM THINGS, AGO ETS
[00:06:13] THAT ALBERTA HAS IF THEY WERE TO HELP THEM.
[00:06:15] HOW DO YOU HANDLE THINGS WHEN IT'S BEING SOLICITED BY
[00:06:19] CANADIANS, BUT TO COULD BE
[00:06:21] VIEWED AS STILL AS BEING
[00:06:24] INTERFERENCE?
[00:06:26] >> WE'LL LET THOSE PEOPLE
[00:06:29] EXPLAIN TO ALBERTANS WHY THEY THOUGHT IT WAS USEFUL TO TAKE
[00:06:33] SOME TRIP TO WASHINGTON AND MEET
[00:06:36] SOME PEOPLE IN A FOREIGN
[00:06:38] ADMINISTRATION TO HOLD OUT SOME KIND PERFORM COMMITMENTS THAT
[00:06:41] THEY MAY OR MAY NOT EVER BE ABLE TO DELIVER.
[00:06:44] LIKE A LOT OF PEOPLE BUY AIR TICKETS, ROSEMARY, AND TRAVEL
[00:06:47] AROUND TO PLACES AND HAVE
[00:06:50] MEETINGS WITH PEOPLE WHO PRETEND
[00:06:52] TO BE DECISION MAKERS AND OTHER CONTEXT.
[00:06:55] PEOPLE MOVE AROUND AND HAVE ALL KINDS OF MEETINGS.
[00:06:58] AND THEN TALK ABOUT, OH, I MET
[00:07:01] THIS VERY IMPORTANT OFFICIAL IN
[00:07:03] THIS FOREIGN GOVERNMENT, IN THIS BOARD ROOM IN SOME FOREIGN
[00:07:07] CAPITAL. THIS STUFF HAPPENS ALL THE TIME.
[00:07:10] WE HAVE MADE IT CLEAR TO THE UNITED STATES THAT WE EXPECT
[00:07:14] THEM TO RESPECT THE SOVEREIGNTY OF CANADA.
[00:07:17] WE HAVE A DEMOCRATIC PROCESS
[00:07:20] THAT'S RUN UNDER CANADIAN LAW. IN THIS CASE, THE LAW OF THE
[00:07:24] PROVINCE OF ALBERTA.
[00:07:26] AND WE HAVE MADE IT CLEAR AT THE VERY HIGHEST LEVELS OF THE
[00:07:30] UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT THAT WE HAVE AN EXPECTATION THAT THEY'LL
[00:07:34] RESPECT OUR SOVEREIGNTY AS WE WILL ANOTHER FOREIGN COUNTRY
[00:07:37] GOING THROUGH AN OPEN AND FREE ELECTION. >> Rosemary: THIS PAST WEEK THE
[00:07:41] U.S. TRADE REPRESENTATIVE JAMIESON GREER SAID THAT CANADA
[00:07:43] IS PREOCCUPIED WITH THE QUÉBEC ELECTION.
[00:07:46] WHY DO YOU THINK HE'S POINTING
[00:07:48] TO THAT AS THE FOCUS OF THE
[00:07:50] CANADIAN GOVERNMENT?
[00:07:54] >> I DON'T KNOW. I SPOKE TO JAMIESON GREER
[00:07:56] EARLIER THIS WEEK.
[00:07:58] WE HAD -- WE HAD A CONVERSATION
[00:08:00] THAT DIDN'T TOUCH ON THIS.
[00:08:06] JAMIESON AT VARIOUS TIMES ASKS ME ABOUT CANADIAN POLITICS. HE FOLLOWS.
[00:08:09] HE'S INTERESTED IN IT. I THINK IT'S INTERESTING THAT THE U.S. CABINET-LEVEL SECRETARY
[00:08:13] IS FOLLOWING CANADIAN DOMESTIC POLITICS.
[00:08:17] I DON'T KNOW WHY HE WOULD HAVE SAID THAT.
[00:08:19] MY CONVERSATIONS WITH HIM WERE
[00:08:22] NOT FOCUSING ON PROVINCIAL ELECTION RESULTS.
[00:08:25] WE'RE FOCUSING ON TARIFFS THAT
[00:08:27] WE THINK ARE UNJUSTIFIED AND
[00:08:29] THAT ARE HURTING THE CANADIAN
[00:08:32] ECONOMY AND CREATING CIRCUMSTANCES FOR CANADIAN
[00:08:35] WORKERS THAT AREN'T HELPFUL. THAT'S THE FOCUS OF MY
[00:08:38] CONVERSATIONS WITH HIM. >> Rosemary: SO WHEN -- WHEN ARE
[00:08:42] THOSE CONVERSATIONS -- LIKE IT'S ENCOURAGING THAT YOU'RE BOTH
[00:08:45] SPEAKING TO EACH OTHER. WHEN DO THOSE CONVERSATIONS TURN
[00:08:48] INTO SOMETHING MORE? BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY WE'RE SEEING
[00:08:51] SOME OF THE DAMAGING EFFECTS OF TARIFFS.
[00:08:54] STELCO IS A SLIGHTLY UNUSUAL INSTANCE, BUT THAT'S SORT OF THE
[00:08:58] MOST RECENT ONE.
[00:08:59] WHETHER DO YOUR -- WHEN DO YOUR
[00:09:02] CALLS BECOME SOMETHING ELSE MORE FORMAL?
[00:09:05] WOULD IT BE AFTER THE MIDTERMS?
[00:09:07] >> AND YOU'RE RIGHT, ROSEMARY,
[00:09:09] IN A SENSE THAT WE ARE SEEING
[00:09:12] SOME OF THE EFFECTS OF THESE AMERICAN TARIFFS ON CERTAIN
[00:09:16] SECTORS OF THE CANADIAN ECONOMY.
[00:09:18] THE EXAMPLE OF STELCO IS ONE. IT'S TRUE IN OTHER SECTORS.
[00:09:22] IT'S TRUE IN SOFTWOOD LUMBER.
[00:09:24] IT'S TRUE IN SOME PARTS OF THE
[00:09:26] ECONOMY THAT WERE HIT WITH THESE
[00:09:29] TARIFFS IN THE SUMMER, THE 338 TARIFFS.
[00:09:32] WHAT WE'VE SAID TO THE AMERICANS -- THE PRIME MINISTER HAS SAID IT PUBLICLY.
[00:09:36] WE SAY IT TO OUR COUNTERPARTS
[00:09:38] WHEN WE TALK TO THEM PRIVATELY.
[00:09:42] WE'RE PREPARED TO NEGOTIATE AN ARRANGEMENT THAT WE THINK IS IN
[00:09:46] THE ECONOMIC AND SOVEREIGN INTERESTS OF CANADA. THEY KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS.
[00:09:50] THEY KNOW WHERE WE WERE WHEN THE
[00:09:53] CONVERSATION OR THE NEGOTIATIONS -- THE FORMAL NEGOTIATIONS WERE
[00:09:57] INTERRUPTED AT THE END OF AUGUST.
[00:10:00] THE CONVERSATIONS AND AMBASSADOR
[00:10:03] GREER -- JAMIESON SAID THIS TO AMERICAN MEDIA. I THOUGHT IT WAS A GOOD WAY TO
[00:10:07] SAY IT. HE SAID IN HIS CONVERSATIONS
[00:10:09] WITH HIS COUNTERPART IN CANADA, IT'S ABOUT LOOKING FOR
[00:10:13] ALTERNATIVES TO THE CURRENT CIRCUMSTANCE.
[00:10:15] SO IT'S NOT A FORMAL NEGOTIATION.
[00:10:17] WE'RE NOT EXCHANGING LEGAL TEXTS
[00:10:20] OF AN AGREEMENT. >> Rosemary: YEP.
[00:10:22] >> BUT WE KNOW WHERE THE NEGOTIATIONS WERE INTERRUPTED AT
[00:10:25] THE END OF AUGUST. AND IF THERE'S A WAY TO PUT US
[00:10:29] ON A TRAJECTORY THAT BRINGS
[00:10:31] THESE TARIFFS DOWN AND SETS US
[00:10:33] UP IN A DIFFERENT ECONOMIC CIRCUMSTANCE, THEN THE PRIME
[00:10:36] MINISTER WILL HAVE A DECISION TO MAKE. AND WE'LL DECIDE AT THAT POINT
[00:10:40] IF THERE'S A NEGOTIATION TO RESUME. >> Rosemary: BUT IT DOES LOOK --
[00:10:43] AND THIS IS THE LAST QUESTION. IT DOES LOOK, MINISTER, LIKE THE
[00:10:46] MIDTERMS ARE GOING TO BE -- ARE
[00:10:49] GOING TO HAVE AN IMPACT ON THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION.
[00:10:52] SURELY THAT WOULD BE A WINDOW FOR THE CANADIAN GOVERNMENT TO
[00:10:56] -- IF, YOU KNOW, THE ADMINISTRATION IS WEAKENED BY
[00:11:06] POLITICAL SCIENTISTS SPEND A LOT OF TIME AND COMMENTATORS TALKING
[00:11:10] ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS ON THE OTHER
[00:11:11] SIDE OF THE MIDTERMS.
[00:11:14] THAT'S AN AMERICAN DEMOCRATIC PROCESS. AMERICANS WILL CHOOSE THEIR
[00:11:17] REPRESENTATIVES IN CONGRESS. >> Rosemary: YEP. >> PRESIDENT TRUMP'S
[00:11:21] ADMINISTRATION WILL BE IN OFFICE FOR TWO MORE YEARS.
[00:11:23] AND A GREAT DEAL OF THE
[00:11:26] AUTHORITY THAT HE'S USING TO APPLY THE TARIFFS, OF COURSE, IS EXECUTIVE AUTHORITY.
[00:11:30] WHICH WON'T BE CHANGED BY THE MIDTERMS. >> Rosemary: RIGHT.
[00:11:33] >> WE'LL LET AMERICAN POLITICS PLAY OUT.
[00:11:36] WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE TO TRY
[00:11:37] AND REMAIN FOCUSED ON FINDING A
[00:11:41] DEAL THAT WOULD BE IN THE ECONOMIC AND SOVEREIGN INTEREST
[00:11:52] HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND. >> Rosemary: STEEL MAKER STELCO
[00:11:55] SAYS IT IS PROCEEDING WITH ITS PLANNED LAYOFFS. THE COMPANY OUTLINED ITS
[00:11:59] RESPONSE TO OTTAWA IN A LETTER. WE'LL HEAR FROM THE C.E.O. OF
[00:12:03] CLEVELAND-CLIFFS, STELCO'S U.S. OWNER, FOR THE FIRST TIME SINCE
[00:12:05] THE LATEST DEVELOPMENT. THAT EXCLUSIVE CONVERSATION COMING UP NEXT.
[00:12:08] ♪♪
[00:12:14] ♪ [upbe
[00:14:36] ♪♪
[00:14:40] >> THESE OBLIGATIONS ARE BINDING.
[00:14:43] AND FAILING TO FOLLOW THEIR
[00:14:48] COMMITMENTS WILL RESULT BUY ACTIONS BY THE GOVERNMENT.
[00:14:52] AND SO BASICALLY MY POINT IS THEY NEED TO COMPLY.
[00:14:56] IF NOT, WE'LL USE THE FULL FORCE
[00:14:58] OF THE LAW.
[00:15:02] >> Rosemary: INDUSTRY MINISTER MELANIE JOLY ON THURSDAY WARNING
[00:15:04] OF LEGAL ACTION AGAINST STELCO. OTTAWA GAVE THE STEELMAKER FIVE
[00:15:08] DAYS TO RESPOND AFTER IT PLANS
[00:15:10] TO LAY OFF UP TO 500 WORKERS.
[00:15:13] CBC NEWS OBTAINED A COPY OF THE RESPONSE OVER THE WEEKEND.
[00:15:15] IT SAYS IT'S NOT VIOLATING ITS EMPLOYMENT COMMITMENTS.
[00:15:19] CLEVELAND-CLIFFS IS THE U.S. OWNER OF STELCO, THE C.E.O.
[00:15:22] JOINS ME NOW LIVE THIS MORNING. LOURENCO GONCALVES, THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE.
[00:15:31] TO THE GOVERNMENT OVER THE PAST COUPLE OF DAYS, MINISTER JOLY'S
[00:15:35] OFFICE SAYS THE GOVERNMENT EXPECTS STELCO TO MEET ITS
[00:15:39] LEGALLY BINDING COMMITMENTS TO EMPLOYEES.
[00:15:42] AND THEIR LEGAL TEAM, THE GOVERNMENT'S LEGAL TEAM IS GOING
[00:15:44] TO REVIEW YOUR LETTER.
[00:15:46] ALL OPTIONS ARE ON THE TABLE.
[00:15:48] ARE YOU PREPARED TO FIGHT THIS
[00:15:50] IN COURT, MR. GONCALVES? >> I AM.
[00:15:53] AND JUST TO CLARIFY A FEW POINTS.
[00:15:56] WE HAVE BEEN IN DIRECT
[00:15:59] CONVERSATIONS WITH THE MINISTRY
[00:16:02] OF INNOVATION AND SCIENCE AND
[00:16:04] ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT IN CANADA. >> Rosemary: YEAH.
[00:16:07] >> AND IT'S NOT JUST ONE LETTER. IT'S TWO LETTERS THAT WE
[00:16:10] ACTUALLY SENT ON FRIDAY.
[00:16:14] ONE TO MINISTER JOLY TO REPLY TO
[00:16:17] HER PUBLIC LETTER, BECAUSE SHE SENT A PUBLIC LETTER TO ME.
[00:16:21] I REPLIED WITH A PUBLIC LETTER AS WELL.
[00:16:23] AND THERE'S ANOTHER ONE THAT
[00:16:27] GOES STRAIGHT TO THE DEPUTY MINISTER.
[00:16:30] >> Rosemary: DEPUTY MINISTER. YES.
[00:16:32] >> AND THAT OTHER ONE IS
[00:16:41] SO -- BUT, URN, WE DIDN'T NEED
[00:16:45] THE FIVE DAYS.
[00:16:48] THIS IS SO ABSURD. IT'S EASY TO COUNTER.
[00:16:52] >> Rosemary: LET ME GO TO THE ISSUE OF JOBS, WHICH IS CENTRAL TO THIS OBVIOUSLY.
[00:16:55] IT'S CANADIAN THANKSGIVING. SOME OF THESE WORKERS ARE BEING
[00:16:59] LAID OFF TODAY. AND STELCO IS SAYING IT'S
[00:17:03] COMPLIANT WITH ITS EMPLOYMENT COMMITMENTS AND THE UNDERTAKINGS
[00:17:06] DO NOT STIPULATE A COMMITMENT TO AVOID LAYOFFS.
[00:17:10] THAT WAS IN THE UNDERTAKING AN AGREEMENT TO EMPLOY THE SAME
[00:17:12] NUMBER OF UNIONIZED AND
[00:17:14] NONUNIONIZED EMPLOYEES WHEN THIS HAPPENED. SO HOW IS THAT DIFFERENT?
[00:17:18] WHY ARE YOU NOW SAYING THAT YOU ARE ALLOWED TO DO SOMETHING THAT
[00:17:22] THE UNDERTAKING SAYS YOU SHOULD NOT BE DOING?
[00:17:25] >> YEAH.
[00:17:27] DIFFERENT THAN WHAT HAPPENED AT
[00:17:31] ALGOMA, IN WHICH THE REDUCTION
[00:17:32] IN JOBS WAS PERMANENT.
[00:17:36] AND THE SUBSIDIZED BY THE
[00:17:38] CANADIAN TAXPAYER.
[00:17:40] REMEMBER ALGONA GOT $500 MILLION
[00:17:45] FROM THE CANADIAN GOVERNMENT. AND THEN SHUT DOWN THE -- THEY
[00:17:48] LAID OFF PERMANENTLY MORE THAN 1,000 WORKERS.
[00:17:51] IN OUR CASE, THE LAYOFFS ARE
[00:17:55] ONE, TEMPORARY. TWO, THEY WILL BE REVERSED.
[00:17:58] THREE, I DID NOT ACCEPT CANADIAN
[00:18:01] TAXPAYER MONEY TO DO THAT, BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE COMPLETE
[00:18:05] LI NAKED COMBAT. I DON'T AGREE WITH THAT.
[00:18:09] I DON'T WANT TO DO THAT. BY THE WAY, NO REASON TO BELIEVE
[00:18:12] THAT THERE'S ANY OTHER
[00:18:14] CIRCUMSTANCES BEYOND WHAT'S
[00:18:19] OBVIOUS. BY THE WAY, I NEVER MET MINISTER LEBLANC.
[00:18:22] HE SOUNDS LIKE A LEVEL-LED THE
[00:18:26] PERSON. AND AND HIS INTERVIEW WITH YOU A
[00:18:29] FEW MINUTES AGO WAS SPOT ON. >> Rosemary: TO GO BACK TO THE
[00:18:33] ISSUE OF THE JOBS. WHEN YOU TOOK OVER THE COMPANY,
[00:18:35] I REMEMBER BECAUSE WE SPOKE AT THE TIME.
[00:18:38] ONE OF YOUR COMMITMENTS UNDER THE INVESTMENT CANADA ACT WAS YOU HAD TO KEEP THE LEVEL OF
[00:18:51] HOW IS IT ACCEPTABLE TO BE LAYING OFF PEOPLE?
[00:18:53] >> THE LAST TIME WE REPORTED TO
[00:18:55] THE CANADIAN GOVERNMENT IN COMPLIANCE.
[00:18:58] I EXPECTED NEXT TIME I'LL BE IN
[00:19:03] COMPLIANCE AGAIN. THERE'S NO PROVISION IN THE
[00:19:05] CONTRACT THAT I HAVE TO KEEP
[00:19:07] EMPLOYMENT AT A CERTAIN LEVEL EVERY SINGLE DAY OF THE FIVE
[00:19:11] YEARS. IF THAT WAS AN IMPOSITION OF THE
[00:19:15] CANADIAN GOVERNMENT, I WOULD NOT
[00:19:17] HAVE ACCEPTED.
[00:19:20] UNDERTAKER -- DECREES ARE NOT IMPOSED TO THE BUYER.
[00:19:22] THIS IS A CONTRACT.
[00:19:24] I ONLY INVESTED $3.4 BILLION
[00:19:28] BECAUSE -- TO BUY STELCO BECAUSE
[00:19:31] I BELIEVE CANADA IS A COUNTRY OF
[00:19:34] LOSS. AND THERE'S NO PROVISION IN THE
[00:19:36] CONTRACT THAT FORCED ME TO HAVE
[00:19:39] THIS SAME EMPLOYMENT LEVEL EVERY
[00:19:41] SINGLE DAY OF THE FIVE YEARS. >> Rosemary: OKAY.
[00:19:45] >> MINISTER JOLY IS ELECTED NOT
[00:19:49] TO ACCEPT. >> Rosemary: LET ME ASK YOU
[00:19:51] ABOUT TARIFFS. OBVIOUSLY THIS IS -- THIS IS BECAUSE OF THE TARIFFS.
[00:19:55] ARE YOU IN FAVOUR OF TARIFFS
[00:19:58] FROM THE U.S. ADMINISTRATION,
[00:20:00] THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION AGAINST CANADA?
[00:20:03] >> I AM IN FAVOUR OF TARIFFS
[00:20:06] AGAINST ALL THE COUNTRIES IN THE
[00:20:08] ENTIRE WORLD THAT DUMP STEEL
[00:20:11] INTO THE UNITED STATES.
[00:20:13] BECAUSE PRESIDENT TRUMP
[00:20:16] IMPLEMENTED IN THE UNITED STATES -- SECTION 232 IS TARIFFS.
[00:20:20] BASED ON NATIONAL SECURITY. WE FINALLY HAVE THE AMERICAN
[00:20:24] STEEL INDUSTRY BACK.
[00:20:25] WE ARE NOW THE THIRD LARGEST
[00:20:29] PRODUCING STEEL COUNTRY IN THE WORLD. AND WE'RE FOURTH FOR A LONG, LONG TIME.
[00:20:33] SO THINGS ARE GETTING MUCH BETTER IN THE UNITED STATES.
[00:20:35] SO I'M IN FAVOUR OF SECTION 232 TARIFFS.
[00:20:39] NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.
[00:20:41] BUT I'M WITH THE SAME POSITION
[00:20:46] OF -- MINISTER DOMINIC LEBLANC.
[00:20:48] WE NEED TO NEGOTIATE A SEPARATE SITUATION BETWEEN THE UNITED
[00:20:51] STATES AND CANADA. THAT HAS BEEN MY POSITION ALL ALONG.
[00:20:54] AND I AM THE BIGGEST APPROPRIATE
[00:20:58] OF NORTH AMERICA IN BOTH SIDES OF THE BORDER. IF YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT
[00:21:07] NOT LED TO THIS OUTCOME?
[00:21:09] DO YOU SEE WHAT I'M SAYING HERE?
[00:21:13] >> ROSEMARY, I'M IN FAVOUR OF
[00:21:15] TARIFFS IN THE UNITED STATES.
[00:21:17] I'M IN FAVOUR OF TARIFFS AGAINST
[00:21:19] ALL COUNTRIES THAT DUMP STEEL IN THE UNITED STATES.
[00:21:22] THE SITUATION BETWEEN CANADA AND
[00:21:25] THE UNITED STATES IS STARTING TO BE RESOLVED.
[00:21:28] BECAUSE I STOPPED SELLING.
[00:21:33] FIRST DAY THAT WAS ONLY STELCO,
[00:21:42] DON'T CONTROL ANYTHING BEYOND
[00:21:45] STELCO. >> Rosemary: YEAH.
[00:21:46] >> THE FLOW OF ARTIFICIALLY CHEAP STEEL INTO THE UNITED
[00:21:50] STATES FROM CANADA, ONLY THE TARIFFS CAN DO THAT.
[00:21:54] THAT SAID WE HAVE TO ADDRESS THIS SPECIFIC SITUATION OF THE
[00:21:58] UNITED STATES AND CANADA.
[00:22:00] AND THAT'S WHAT WAS BEING NEGOTIATED. AND IT WAS INTERRUPTED IN THE
[00:22:04] MIDDLE OF THE NEGOTIATIONS.
[00:22:06] WE WOULD HAVE A MUCH BETTER
[00:22:09] SITUATION IF THE PATH THAT WE
[00:22:10] STARTED IN JUNE OF 2025 -- IT
[00:22:14] WAS APPROVED IN DECEMBER OF
[00:22:20] 2025. WE WOULD HAVE RESULTED IN A MORE
[00:22:24] COMPREHENSIVE FORTRESS NORTH AMERICA AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE UNITED STATES AND CANADA.
[00:22:28] >> Rosemary: YES. I UNDERSTAND. YES.
[00:22:31] SORRY, I'M RUNNING OUT OF TIME, MR. GONCALVES.
[00:22:33] I UNDERSTAND YOU DIDN'T WANT TO TAKE TAXPAYER MONEY IN ORDER TO
[00:22:37] HELP THINGS. BUT THE GOVERNMENT DID MAKE
[00:22:40] VARIOUS OFFERS TO AVOID THIS OUTCOME. WHY DID YOU NOT ACCEPT ANY OF THEM?
[00:22:44] WHY DID YOU NOT TRY TO FIND A
[00:22:46] WAY OUT OF THIS?
[00:22:49] >> BECAUSE THE PART THAT I HAVE
[00:22:51] TO COMPARE IS ALGOMA.
[00:22:55] ALGOMA TOOK MONEY.
[00:22:56] $500 MILLION FROM THE GOVERNMENT
[00:23:00] TO SHUT DOWN AND LAY OFF
[00:23:03] PERMANENTLY 1,000 WORKERS. I DON'T DO THESE THINGS.
[00:23:07] >> Rosemary: MR. GONCALVES, WOULD YOU CONSIDER -- WOULD YOU
[00:23:08] CONSIDER SELLING THE COMPANY?
[00:23:11] >> FOR A GOOD OFFER, YES.
[00:23:23] ABSOLUTELY WE CAN CONTINUE TO BE
[00:23:25] A GOOD -- A GOOD CITIZEN IN CANADA.
[00:23:27] WE'LL CONTINUE TO EMPLOY ALL THE
[00:23:31] WORKFORCE THAT I HAVE THERE WHEN WE BOUGHT THE COMPANY.
[00:23:34] WE'LL CONTINUE TO BE IN COMPLIANCE.
[00:23:37] LIKE I SAID, IT'S A CONTRACT.
[00:23:40] >> Rosemary: LET ME END ON THIS, MR. GONCALVES. WHAT WOULD YOU SAY TO THE
[00:23:44] WORKERS WHO BELIEVED THAT YOU HAVE -- YOU'VE LET THEM DOWN AND
[00:23:48] THAT YOU DIDN'T KEEP UP YOUR END OF THE DEAL.
[00:23:51] >> I BELIEVE THAT THEY'RE BEING PLAYED.
[00:23:55] I BELIEVE THAT HAVING THE PRIME MINISTER OF CANADA, A PERSON
[00:23:59] THAT I HAVE NEVER MET, SAY THAT
[00:24:00] I BETRAYED MY EMPLOYEES, THIS IS
[00:24:04] NOT TRUE.
[00:24:06] THIS WAS PRIME MINISTER CARNEY
[00:24:09] REPEATING WHAT MINISTER JOLY SAID WITHOUT THINKING. HE'S A BUSY GUY.
[00:24:13] PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT MR. LEBLANC IS DOING.
[00:24:16] DON'T PAY ATTENTION TO THE RHETORIC OF PEOPLE THAT ARE JUST
[00:24:20] PLAYING POLITICS. >> Rosemary: OKAY.
[00:24:22] >> WE HAVE A MUCH BIGGER TASK AT
[00:24:26] HAND. HAPPY THANKSGIVING. THIS IS THE LAST THANKSGIVING
[00:24:29] THAT YOU'RE OUT OF A JOB. YOU'RE GOING TO BE BROUGHT BACK OPINION.
[00:24:36] WE APPRECIATE IT, SIR. >> THANK YOU. >> Rosemary: HAVE A GOOD DAY.
[00:24:39] WE'VE HEARD FROM THE BUSINESS PERSPECTIVE ABOUT THE LAYOFFS.
[00:24:42] LET'S TALK ABOUT THE POLITICAL PART OF THIS STORY. OUR "SUNDAY SCRUM" HAVE BEEN
[00:24:46] LEAPLEAPING IN -- HAVE BEEN LISTENING IN AND THEY'LL RESPOND
[00:24:49] AFTER THIS BREAK. YOU'RE WATCHING "R.B.L."
[00:24:52] ♪♪ >> The d
[00:27:10] ♪♪
[00:27:15] >> PRIME MINISTER CARNEY
[00:27:18] REPEATING WHAT MINISTER JOLY SAID WITHOUT THINKING.
[00:27:21] HE'S A BUSY GUY. PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT MINISTER
[00:27:24] LEBLANC IS DOING. DON'T PAY ATTENTION TO THE
[00:27:28] RHETORIC OF PEOPLE THAT ARE JUST PLAYING POLITICS.
[00:27:31] WE HAVE A MUCH BIGGER TASK AT HAND.
[00:27:34] AND YOU'RE GOING TO BE BROUGHT BACK. HAPPY THANKSGIVING.
[00:27:36] THIS IS THE LAST THANKSGIVING THAT YOU ARE OUT OF A JOB.
[00:27:40] YOU'RE GOING TO BE BROUGHT BACK. >> Rosemary: THE C.E.O. OF
[00:27:43] CLEVELAND-CLIFFS THERE ABOUT HOW THE COMPANY'S RESPONDING TO
[00:27:46] OTTAWA'S CRITICISM OF THOSE LAYOFFS AT STELCO. LET'S BRING IN OUR "SUNDAY
[00:27:49] SCRUM" TO TALK ABOUT IT. CHARELLE EVELYN IS THE MANAGING
[00:27:52] EDITOR AT THE HILL TIMES, ROBERT
[00:27:54] BENZIE THE QUEEN'S PARK BUREAU CHIEF FOR THE "TORONTO STAR,"
[00:27:57] AND ROB SHAW POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT AT CHEK NEWS.
[00:28:01] HE'S IN VICTORIA. ROBERT BENZIE, I'M GOING TO START WITH YOU.
[00:28:04] WHAT DID YOU MAKE OF THE EXPLANATION THERE BY THE C.E.O.
[00:28:08] OF CLEVELAND-CLIFFS? >> WELL, THAT WAS A GOOD INTERVIEW, ROSY.
[00:28:11] HE MADE SOME NEWS. SOME HEADLINES OUT THEREOF.
[00:28:13] BASICALLY SAYING THAT CARNEY AND
[00:28:17] JOLY ARE PLAYING POLITICS AND
[00:28:18] THE WORKERS ARE BEING PLAYED.
[00:28:22] AND I ALSO STRUCK BY THE FACT THAT HE -- HE SAID HE WOULD BE
[00:28:25] WILLING TO SELL THE COMPANY IF THEY GET A GOOD OFFER.
[00:28:28] I THINK THAT MIGHT BE THE BEST OUTCOME.
[00:28:30] BECAUSE THE PROBLEM IS THAT HE
[00:28:33] IS -- HE IS A TRUMP-SUPPORTING
[00:28:37] STEEL TYCOON. UNDERSTANDABLY IT'S GOOD FOR HIS BUSINESS IN THE UNITED STATES.
[00:28:40] WHAT'S GOOD FOR HIS COMPANY IN THE UNITED STATES IS NOT GOOD FOR HIS COMPANY IN CANADA.
[00:28:44] AND THIS IS THE SIGNIFICANT ISSUE, ROSY.
[00:28:48] THERE'S 23,000 STEEL WORKERS IN CANADA. MOST OF THEM IN ONTARIO.
[00:28:51] THIS IS A HUGE, HUGE BLOW.
[00:28:53] I WAS -- I FOUND IT OUT THAT HE
[00:28:55] WOULD SAY THAT, DON'T WORRY,
[00:28:59] YOU'LL BE BACK. I DON'T KNOW WHAT HE KNOWS ABOUT HOW THE DISPUTE KNOWS THAT THE
[00:29:03] REST OF US DON'T KNOW. HOW DOES HE KNOW THE WORKERS
[00:29:05] WILL BE BACK BY THANKSGIVING 2027. >> Rosemary: I DON'T KNOW.
[00:29:09] I MEAN, MAYBE HE THINKS THAT THERE'S GOING TO BE A DEAL. YOU KNOW, MAYBE HE THINKS THAT
[00:29:12] THEY'RE GOING TO GET TO A PLACE WHERE THE TARIFFS WILL BE LOWERED.
[00:29:15] THAT WAS THE ONLY THING THAT -- MAYBE HE KNOWS.
[00:29:19] YEAH. I AGREE. I'M NOT SURE THAT WE KNOW THAT EITHER.
[00:29:22] ROB SHAW, THOUGH, IT IS SORT OF -- WHAT'S SO INTERESTING ABOUT
[00:29:26] THE STORY AND OBVIOUSLY UPSETTING FOR MANY PEOPLE IN
[00:29:30] HAMILTON, IT'S SORT OF A DIRECT
[00:29:37] DEVASTATING FOR THE CITY OF HAMILTON, WHO I DON'T KNOW THAT
[00:29:41] EITHER, IN SPITE OF WHAT THE
[00:29:50] THE AMERICANS WANT A TRADE DEAL.
[00:29:52] AND THAT WITH MIDTERMS IN THREE WEEKS, PRESIDENT TRUMP IS NOT
[00:29:55] TRYING TO SHOW THAT HE'S BRINGING STEEL JOBS BACK TO THE
[00:30:01] THAT TRUMP WANTS IN THE SHORT-TERM.
[00:30:03] SO I DON'T -- I'M NOT SURE THAT THAT ARGUMENT KIND OF REACHES
[00:30:07] THE CIRCLE. AND TO PICK UP ON ROB'S POINT
[00:30:10] THERE, IF THE BEST OUTCOME FOR THE CANADIAN GOVERNMENT IS TO
[00:30:13] FORCE A SALE HERE, THROUGH COURT
[00:30:14] ACTION AND A COURT DIVESTITURE,
[00:30:17] WHO IS GOING TO BUY STELCO? IS IT A PRIVATE SALE?
[00:30:21] IS IT A GOVERNMENT PURCHASE AT SOME POINT AS PART OF THE
[00:30:25] CONTINUING KIND OF BUILD CANADA,
[00:30:27] SECURE THE SUPPLY CHAIN, BUY A PIPELINE.
[00:30:30] YOU CAN BUY A STEEL PLANT.
[00:30:33] THOSE ARE ALL INTERESTING OUTCOMES. THE OTHER FLAW IN THE ARGUMENT FROM THE C.E.O. THERE IS THE
[00:30:36] IDEA THAT HE THINKS THE PRIME
[00:30:40] MINISTER -- THAT THE INDUSTRY MINISTER HAS LINES THE PRIME
[00:30:43] MINISTER HASN'T SEEN. I THINK IT'S PROBABLY THE OTHER WAY AROUND.
[00:30:47] THE INDUSTRY MINISTER IS READING THE LINES FROM THE PRIME MINISTER'S OFFICE IS HOW I WOULD
[00:30:51] READ THAT. >> Rosemary: YEAH.
[00:30:53] CHARELLE, IT ALSO SOUNDS LIKE MR. GONCALVES IS READY