CRONICA — broadcast
20261004 140000 UTC
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[00:00:37] privileged place in politics, like Jair in
[00:02:31] with this last minute and we anticipated it throughout the
[00:02:34] morning, Lula versus Bolsonaro, in this case
[00:02:38] Yair Bolsonaro's son, Flavio Bolsonaro, face
[00:02:42] to face, the polls
[00:02:45] show a technical tie,
[00:02:49] I read polls that are more in favor of
[00:02:51] Lula, but well, we are there, there's a runoff or not, but the second
[00:02:55] round would be on October 25th,
[00:02:59] they talk about a... minimal difference and
[00:03:02] Brazil decides, obviously this will be key for the regional
[00:03:05] economy, here is Enrique Ortiz, Enrique, our
[00:03:08] special guest, Enrique, how are you, good morning, Guido greets
[00:03:10] you,
[00:03:19] there it is, we are going to fix the mobile, obviously we are working
[00:03:23] live, it must be said, I always rescue and point out,
[00:03:26] it's Flavio, Bolsonaro's son, because many people when you put.
[00:03:30] eh Bolsonaro, you go obviously directly to the former president who
[00:03:35] everyone has the right to say what today cannot run in an election, well, obviously due to what
[00:03:38] happened to him with justice and
[00:03:40] many Brazilians in Argentina who can vote, no, at so on, they talk about a technical tie, they talk about a second
[00:03:43] round on the 25th and we are there in full
[00:03:47] in full voting, Ailu, yes, depending on which poll you read, one will
[00:03:50] tell you that it favors Lula more, another that it favors
[00:03:54] Bolsonaro more, let's see, the reality is that the situation is very
[00:03:57] even, this will also be a conditioning factor. to have an
[00:04:00] overview of what may happen in Argentina, let's remember that
[00:04:04] understood, we talk to people from eh what is Latin America in general goes to the same
[00:04:08] side in elections, that is, voting more to the right or voting more
[00:04:11] to the center and, if you will, left, in Lula's case he
[00:04:15] showed himself with the flag, or rather, with a T-shirt, alluding to the
[00:04:18] flag that was shown during the World Cup: the Falkland Islands are Argentine, that is, he
[00:04:22] showed his strong support, precisely with a sector that feels
[00:04:25] represented by this flag, beyond the fact that we have heard the
[00:04:29] president afterwards. I mean, to make a comparison,
[00:04:33] eh, who vindicated himself with the issue of the Falkland Islands and got on board when we have
[00:04:36] heard him speak well of Margaret, for example, but I mean
[00:04:40] obviously it's an issue that remained in the world, that of
[00:04:43] the Falkland Islands, eh, he
[00:04:45] referred to the fact that the United States even Trump also finished up, and then
[00:04:49] it was also clarified that it was for a personal
[00:04:53] issue, if you will, to gain some kind of political advantage, but well, the decision is very close,
[00:04:56] Lula is campaigning very strongly and Bolsonaro, although we clarify,
[00:05:00] he is the son, of course he carries the father's banner, well, Lula voted
[00:05:03] early, at 9:15 in the morning
[00:05:07] now in Brazil, he was very confident regarding the
[00:05:11] elections, obviously we are talking about a technical tie and a... an extremely
[00:05:15] competitive election, I think you hit
[00:05:17] the nail on the head,
[00:05:21] whoever is the new president, let's think
[00:05:24] that only in Sao Paulo there are
[00:05:27] 40 million people voting, obviously they are electronic
[00:05:31] elections, but 40 million, Sao Paulo would be almost Argentina,
[00:05:35] Argentina, it is the first most numerous, most numerous
[00:05:38] state, obviously Sao Paulo, there is a lot of
[00:05:42] expectation. I saw the colleague working there, special correspondent for Crónica, where obviously
[00:05:46] there are many people who are continuing the legacy of
[00:05:50] Lula's presidency, there are other people who talk about these
[00:05:56] the death penalty as Flavio Bolsonaro is, who has also
[00:05:59] expressed it publicly,
[00:06:03] the extreme right, no, exactly, and we come from a
[00:06:07] moment where the right is governing the world at
[00:06:10] these moments, eh, or in... almost the whole world, no, so what
[00:06:14] Ailu was saying will also be a parameter to see
[00:06:17] where we stand from now on, no, yes, more than
[00:06:21] 158 million Brazilians will vote in this
[00:06:24] election, when they say technical tie, let's see, the
[00:06:28] last polls talk about 38% for Flavio and
[00:06:32] 42% for Lula, obviously, look, there
[00:06:36] we see the image, the image of the two
[00:06:38] contenders and this second round that would be,
[00:06:43] on October 25th, yes, what Lula also
[00:06:46] gives is a more positive image, if you will, than
[00:06:50] than Flavio, because let's remember Lula, well, he comes from a career in politics,
[00:06:53] Flavio comes from being Bolsonaro's son, so what makes him strong
[00:06:57] is the surname in this case, that's why we make the clarification that he is the son, but of course
[00:07:01] he carries the father's banner in terms of harsh and restrictive right-wing
[00:07:04] policies, yes, they also talk about obviously
[00:07:08] fraud and exchange of documents, there are 28 arrested
[00:07:12] who were, were found committing fraud in
[00:07:15] different parts of the country, so that's not a minor detail,
[00:07:19] it happens like in Argentina, no, the issue of ballots, but since this is
[00:07:22] electronic, it has a
[00:07:25] control more that people who had
[00:07:28] already figured as deceased had voted and
[00:07:33] the voting, I mean it happens in the interior of the country, which I don't like the interior because
[00:07:37] it's the whole country, but well, I mean the provinces, there are areas that perhaps have
[00:07:41] less access to information. This must be remembered, one is
[00:07:44] usually portenocentric or Buenos Aires-centric, I mean
[00:07:48] thinking that what happens in the province of Buenos Aires is what is reflected in the rest of the country
[00:07:52] and that is not the case, especially there are sectors in the north that
[00:07:56] also to guarantee an election, a lot of focus must be
[00:07:59] placed there and I think it is important for what comes with electronic voting,
[00:08:02] there were three key calls from Lula prior to this first round
[00:08:06] to three presidents, eh, economies of world
[00:08:10] powers, first Xi Jinping China. then also with Donald
[00:08:13] Trump, pay attention to this, Donald Trump also Vladimir
[00:08:17] Putin, we are not talking about Lula making those three
[00:08:20] calls prior to the first round, obviously we are talking about one of the most
[00:08:24] important economies, if not the most
[00:08:27] important in Latin America, let's remember 158 million
[00:08:30] Brazilians will vote, yes Emma, and the
[00:08:34] repercussions in other countries like in Argentina because whoever
[00:08:37] expressed himself publicly regarding this election and
[00:08:41] expressed his support. Luis Ignacio Lula da Silva in the framework of these
[00:08:44] decisive elections was Sergio Maza who did so through
[00:08:48] social networks, yes, well, here there are
[00:08:53] the Brazilian embassy it will be from 8 a.m. to
[00:08:56] 5 p.m., obviously with the corresponding documentation,
[00:09:00] they will be able to vote, they will be able to cast
[00:09:04] their vote, obviously this is important because this obviously the
[00:09:07] Brazilian embassy puts it, it is located at Cerrito 1300
[00:09:10] if I'm not mistaken. No, let's see, you, the
[00:09:14] voter who goes to the place must go with prior
[00:09:17] registration and enrollment before May 7th, clear, well,
[00:09:21] let's also remember that the election in Brazil will be important for Argentina, because of
[00:09:24] our ties, for Argentina, the relationship with with the neighboring country, with Brazil, is very
[00:09:28] important, that's why I say, the election will also be
[00:09:32] decisive when thinking about what happens here, eh, regarding political
[00:09:35] campaigns, we know that Javier Miley, Karina Miley, Patricia Bullrich are already
[00:09:39] campaigning and there is a lot of talk about the opposition, who will be
[00:09:42] the strong candidate of the opposition, one understands that it could be
[00:09:46] Sergio Maxel Quisilov, we have to see who the Kishnerismo will support,
[00:09:49] beyond Peronism in general, in fact, President Milei supported
[00:09:53] Bolsonaro, that's why
[00:09:56] I say, that point is very well made,
[00:10:00] that point Ailu, because I mean President
[00:10:03] Milei gave his full support to Bolsonaro, Bolsonaro voted around
[00:10:07] 8 in the morning, a little earlier than he voted in Rio de Janeiro,
[00:10:11] also. you know, he looks very
[00:10:14] much like his father, but very much like his father, in fact this
[00:10:18] week I also read articles where I had to read that he was the son
[00:10:22] because he looks so much like his father, he was a senator. an
[00:10:25] interesting political career too, I mean in
[00:10:28] Brazil, no matter where you are from, we have to say that Lula is not
[00:10:32] the extreme right or the extreme left, less
[00:10:35] so now, less so now with elections, Lula is more center, center
[00:10:39] left eh, to make a difference with, yes, but
[00:10:43] Bolsonaro is extreme
[00:10:46] what Lula has formed is a much broader
[00:10:52] is what you said, Guido, at the beginning when one speaks of the
[00:10:55] Bolsonaro surname, one speaks of a surname that has several
[00:10:59] players who have had a
[00:11:02] the presidency, but there is also Eduardo Bolsonaro who is a fugitive from
[00:11:05] justice, that's tremendous, that's tremendous, I mean
[00:11:08] the Bolsonaro family, the
[00:11:12] truth is that it complicates things too much, obviously imagine that this person
[00:11:15] when he comes to power, if he comes to power, well, everything would indicate that it's Lula, no,
[00:11:19] according to the polls, but anything can happen in a second round,
[00:11:23] anything can happen, we are at...
[00:11:26] 8:42 also, eh, the family context, no, the father,
[00:11:29] the brother and so on, eh, and, pardon, Ailu, but the
[00:11:33] expectation is total because of what we were saying just now, I looked up the
[00:11:36] data well and there are 12 countries in Latin America that today
[00:11:40] are governed by
[00:11:43] the right, no, eh, besides that there are other
[00:11:47] countries in the world, imagine 12 countries only in Latin
[00:11:51] America that today eh, you see, no, a
[00:11:54] predominance of the right, so there is a lot of
[00:11:56] expectation for this round, no,
[00:12:00] well, in a while we will return to Brazil, we are working live
[00:12:03] from Brazil with our special envoy for these
[00:12:07] elections, let's remember they opened at 8 in the morning, the two most
[00:12:10] important candidates have already voted, Lula has already voted, he voted around 9:30, Flavio Bolsonaro
[00:12:14] voted around 8 in the morning in Rio de Janeiro and the polls
[00:12:18] close at 5 in the afternoon, so in a while
[00:12:21] we will return and surely, since the polls show this technical tie,
[00:12:25] there will be a second round on October
[00:19:51] to Brazil live, directly we are anticipating
[00:19:54] the elections, we are with
[00:19:58] chronicler, with a luxury envoy, Brazil
[00:20:01] decides, Lula versus Bolsonaro
[00:20:04] face to face.
[00:20:10] We are live with Enrique
[00:20:11] Ortiz,
[00:20:15] Enrique, it's all yours, please, how are you, I'm fine, everything's fine,
[00:20:19] well, today I was telling them before the signal cut out that we
[00:20:22] find things that don't happen, for example, in the Argentine Republic,
[00:20:25] yesterday until late at night we were seeing caravans
[00:20:28] of Lula and practically Bolsonaro everywhere,
[00:20:32] look where I am, I am here in a pastoral
[00:20:35] center, I am in a church.
[00:20:37] around here in the square there is also another church, a Catholic
[00:20:41] parish where you can also vote, obviously to contain
[00:20:45] the number of voters, more than 180 million
[00:20:48] people who will vote in Brazil have to find other places,
[00:20:52] for example, police radio commands are also enabled,
[00:20:55] something that occurs precisely in the
[00:20:59] Argentine Republic, I am here with Sandro Coelo, advisor to the
[00:21:02] presidency of the Republic, who will tell us how these elections
[00:21:06] are being experienced here in Brazil, how are you Sandro, all good, all good, good
[00:21:09] morning, a big hug to our Argentine brothers and comrades, we are
[00:21:13] here in Brazil, in full electoral
[00:21:16] contest, today is an important day for Brazilian democracy.
[00:21:20] more than 180 million Brazilians will be
[00:21:24] exercising their citizenship and it is a
[00:21:28] historic day, it is a day that defines between
[00:21:30] democracy and barbarism, between
[00:21:34] fascism and democracy, we are
[00:21:37] here, I am a party delegate, we are here in support of
[00:21:40] President Lula, the re-election of President Lula, the elections
[00:21:44] are here in the region where we are, proceeding
[00:21:47] peacefully, no, we have not had any incidents in this city
[00:21:51] where we are, so the election is going
[00:21:54] normally, very calmly until 5 p.m.
[00:21:58] Then we will see what the will of the Brazilian
[00:22:01] voter is. We just met in a school with cultural
[00:22:05] advisors, people from the theater, also
[00:22:08] various people who also spoke in favor of Lula, but we also
[00:22:12] spoke with Bolsonaro's people who claimed there was fraud, because they
[00:22:15] didn't get a certificate or something when they did the digital, they didn't
[00:22:19] trust the Brazilian digital system much, what do
[00:22:22] you say about this? it's interesting that these people
[00:22:26] who say that the digital system doesn't work, all of them
[00:22:30] were elected, Flavio Bolsonaro himself, who is a presidential
[00:22:33] candidate, was elected four, five times as a state deputy in Rio de Janeiro by
[00:22:36] this same system, Jair Bolsonaro, his father, was
[00:22:40] elected in 2018 by this same system, it is a
[00:22:43] secure system, Brazil is an example of the democratic
[00:22:47] system and the electoral process, the electronic voting machines
[00:22:50] are audited, they are extremely reliable, they
[00:22:53] want the printed
[00:22:56] vote to return, because you have to move a whole
[00:23:00] team of supervisors, since the machine of the Brazilian right is
[00:23:03] very large, it becomes easier to commit fraud if it is in the
[00:23:07] old system, I am from the time when the vote was printed
[00:23:11] and there was a lot of fraud, the Brazilian electoral
[00:23:14] system, the Brazilian electronic voting machine is an example for the
[00:23:18] world, whoever doesn't want...
[00:23:20] whoever doesn't think it is because they are afraid
[00:23:24] beforehand of defeat, Lula will win
[00:23:27] today in the first round with absolute certainty, Brazil deserves it,
[00:23:31] Brazil needs it, Brazil cannot go back,
[00:23:34] including about the electoral urns, let's see, there is a latent fear
[00:23:38] tonight that if Bolsonaro wins, for example, as much as Lula
[00:23:41] wins, another faction also has problems,
[00:23:45] there are disturbances tonight after the elections, what do
[00:23:49] you say? No, I don't believe that there
[00:23:53] will be disturbances, eh, what happened on January
[00:23:56] 8, 2023,
[00:24:00] eight days after Lula's inauguration, was an attempted
[00:24:04] coup d'état, they did not accept the defeat to
[00:24:07] Lula in 2022, they attempted a coup d'état, that no longer exists,
[00:24:11] Bolsonaro is in prison, there are more than 1,500 people in prison,
[00:24:15] convicted, his justice minister is in prison, his
[00:24:19] vice-presidential candidate is in prison,
[00:24:22] the STF works fully, so we have no
[00:24:26] hypothesis whatsoever, any type of fear about
[00:24:30] disturbances in Brazil from the results, the election results,
[00:24:34] Brazil is a democratic country, it is a country of
[00:24:38] more than 8,500 km of maritime
[00:24:41] border, it borders almost all
[00:24:44] of South America and we believe that
[00:24:48] democracy in Brazil is full, now. Thank you very much, Fabio, who
[00:24:52] is an advisor to the presidency of the Republic, eh, well, I was telling him
[00:24:55] today about these particularities that Brazil has, no, eh, these
[00:24:59] particularities have to do with this, all the churches, yes, tell me, no, no, no,
[00:25:03] no, tell me, sorry I interrupted you, the
[00:25:06] delight, I would say, no, No, all the
[00:25:10] evangelical churches around today
[00:25:13] are ready for voting. There are five Catholic
[00:25:16] parishes, also, where people can vote. And
[00:25:20] all the places, the evangelical centers that were
[00:25:23] specifically enabled for people to vote, only
[00:25:27] in these three blocks where we are around, that you are
[00:25:31] seeing, only in these three blocks and in these places, more
[00:25:35] than 350,000 people will vote, who still
[00:25:39] have not come at this time of the morning, not even
[00:25:43] 15% have voted. They say there will be
[00:25:46] a lot of blank votes, another peculiarity that I'll tell you.
[00:25:54] Precisely the quantity, we refer to Sao Paulo, you have 40, 40 million
[00:25:58] inhabitants, 158, 158 million will vote throughout
[00:26:14] afternoon, people are not coming to vote, that's it, that's the
[00:26:18] point, low participation, but why is this,
[00:26:20] Enrique?
[00:26:23] Clearly, well, that's what we were talking about also with people from the
[00:26:27] presidency who have been there since very early, we have found them in several schools,
[00:26:31] maybe people are not. Or there are, uh, with neither of the two
[00:26:34] candidates, there's maybe a bit of a lack of desire to vote, so
[00:26:38] they fear the blank vote a lot too, that it could happen. The thing is that after
[00:26:42] midday this could change, this here could
[00:26:45] explode and everyone could come after midday. A very big storm
[00:26:49] last night that extended until almost 7 in the
[00:26:52] morning, there was hail here in the area, actually, it was quite
[00:26:56] quite, quite strong, the storm was, it could be for that reason too that
[00:27:00] everyone was delayed, but...
[00:27:04] How? What point are you
[00:27:05] at?
[00:27:10] Enrique? Well, we are at the point of a central square where on the other
[00:27:13] side is one of the many squares of San Pablo and finally I'll
[00:27:17] tell you something, because here in this sector where we are, here is the
[00:27:21] evangelical part, on the other side is the part of the Catholics where the
[00:27:25] parishes are and these parishes can also be voted in. That
[00:27:28] is, everything that does not happen in Argentina, today you ask.
[00:27:32] why this was happening and it's because of the number of voters, we with 40
[00:27:36] million inhabitants, well we can, uh, vote in schools
[00:27:39] directly, but here 180 million people
[00:27:42] vote, so all evangelical places are enabled
[00:27:46] that Bolsonaro's government ended up
[00:27:49] enabling for these evangelical centers so that people can
[00:27:53] vote, so they open the halls, they open the
[00:27:56] parish halls and they open the same churches so that people
[00:27:59] can come to vote and that this is a bit more.
[00:28:26] regarding the discontent there is also the lack of education because, let's see,
[00:28:29] we talk about the fine, the fine that is insignificant for the Argentine
[00:28:33] pocket, in fact the majority does not pay the fine for not voting, let's remember that voting is
[00:28:37] mandatory, but beyond this, it seems to me that it has to do with social
[00:28:40] commitment, I mean young people today who are perhaps the ones who
[00:28:44] vote less regarding age groups, it's because they
[00:28:48] don't have the conviction to go for a political stance and
[00:28:51] they understand that their blank vote can make a
[00:28:53] difference, in fact it has been talked about at some point, I hope this doesn't happen, it seems
[00:28:57] a bit exaggerated these days, but that the blank vote wins at some
[00:29:01] point of... regarding the discontent there is for a
[00:29:04] political stance, it seems to me that this also has to do with the educational levels we have
[00:29:08] being among the lowest of all time, ailu kique, to highlight some
[00:29:12] points, maybe it wasn't understood by the "Portuñol"
[00:29:16] of the advisor just now for Kike to respond like that because if not with the
[00:29:20] delay it will be tremendous, tell me
[00:29:21] Kike
[00:29:25] I'll tell you a particularity also of what is happening here in this sector, 80,000
[00:29:29] foreigners are enabled to... vote,
[00:29:33] a survey was conducted among foreigners of the entire area, of these
[00:29:36] 80,000, 75%
[00:29:40] although Lula da Silva gave them the papers and authorization to vote,
[00:29:44] they will vote for Bolsonaro, this survey
[00:29:47] that was given, that well, that was done in recent days, had to
[00:29:51] do with this and also made Bolsonaro grow a little in the
[00:29:54] polls, because the foreigner
[00:29:58] who Lula enables to vote, this
[00:30:01] practically. they end up voting or would vote for Bolsonaro, it's not
[00:30:07] the culture, we just talked with a very big
[00:30:10] producer here who we will already pass the note that we recorded
[00:30:13] precisely, who is Sam, one of the producers
[00:30:17] of Avenida Brasil, the famous soap opera, also that has brought
[00:30:21] great Argentine artists and international artists to
[00:30:24] Brazil, we talked to him and he just told us that the people of the
[00:30:28] culture support Lula, but many of these
[00:30:31] sectors of the culture turned around for economic
[00:30:34] arrangements
[00:30:36] in recent weeks, they changed their thinking precisely
[00:30:40] towards Bolsonaro, this is what he told us and it was also
[00:30:43] Sam Lopez's anger that we talked to him a few minutes
[00:30:47] ago precisely in a school he went to vote and we went to interview him, but
[00:30:51] this sector, those of the culture will prefer to vote,
[00:30:55] yes, tell me, the message is very clear, what you are saying is very
[00:30:58] clear, 11:30, so we will continue with this coverage in
[00:31:02] 5 minutes I'll come back to you, does that sound good, if you want to find someone to talk to,
[00:31:06] I'll give you 5 minutes and we'll go back to Brazil.