CSPAN2 — Washington Journal Tom Nichols
20260825 185900 UTC
172 transcript segments
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[00:00:06] JOIN C-SPAN 2 AT 6 P.M. EASTERN FOR MARATHON PROGRAMING, HIGHLIGHTING SOME OF THE MOST
[00:00:10] CONSEQUENTIAL, COMPELLING, AND
[00:00:12] MEMORABLE MOMENTS COVERED BY C-SPAN IN 2026. TODAY, A
[00:00:16] COLLECTION OF CONGRESSIONAL HEARINGS THAT SHAPED POLICY
[00:00:19] SCRUTINIZED IMPORTANT ISSUES, AND CAPTURED THE ATTENTION OF
[00:00:22] THE COUNTRY. WEDNESDAY, A LOOK AT THE EXPLORATION, INNOVATION,
[00:00:25] AND ACHIEVEMENT THAT HAVE PUSHED THE BOUNDARIES OF WHAT'S
[00:00:28] POSSIBLE FROM THE HISTORY OF THE AMERICAN SPACE PROGRAM TO
[00:00:32] ARTEMIS II. THURSDAY, WE'LL AIR SOME OF THIS YEAR'S MOST
[00:00:35] WATCHED, MOST TALKED ABOUT, AND
[00:00:36] MOST MEMORABLE C-SPAN PROGRAMING
[00:00:39] THAT CAPTURED PUBLIC ATTENTION.
[00:00:41] AND ON FRIDAY, SUPREME COURT JUSTICES DISCUSSING THEIR LIVES,
[00:00:44] THE CONSTITUTION, THE COURT, AND WHAT IT MEANS TO SERVE ON THE
[00:00:48] NATION'S HIGHEST COURT. WATCH A
[00:00:50] MARATHON OF COMPELLING
[00:00:53] PROGRAMING ALL THIS WEEK ON
[00:00:56] C-SPAN. TWO.
[00:00:59] >> OUR GUEST NOW IS TOM NICHOLS. YOU PROBABLY KNOW HIM FROM HIS WORK AS A STAFF WRITER FOR THE
[00:01:03] ATLANTIC, OR FROM HIS SOCIAL MEDIA FEEDS. YOU MAY KNOW HIM
[00:01:06] FROM HIS MANY BOOKS ON NATIONAL SECURITY AND AMERICAN DEMOCRACY.
[00:01:09] YOU MAY NOT KNOW THAT HE WAS A FIVE TIME JEOPARDY! CHAMPION
[00:01:12] BACK IN THE MID 1990s. BUT TOM NICHOLS, LET'S START AT THE
[00:01:15] INTERSECTION OF NATIONAL SECURITY AND ECONOMIC POWER.
[00:01:18] WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF OPERATION
[00:01:21] ECONOMIC OUTCAST? THIS LATEST ROUND OF ECONOMIC SANCTIONS AGAINST IRAN?
[00:01:25] >> WELL, THERE'S NOT MUCH LEFT
[00:01:26] TO SANCTION. AND IF YOU'RE NOT
[00:01:31] WILLING TO REALLY GO AFTER THE RUSSIANS AND THE CHINESE, AS THE
[00:01:34] PRESIDENT SEEMS UNWILLING TO DO,
[00:01:35] UM, NOT SURE WHAT THIS IS OTHER
[00:01:39] THAN ANOTHER SET OF ANNOUNCEMENTS FROM THE PRESIDENT, FROM THE SECRETARY OF
[00:01:42] THE TREASURY, KIND OF TRYING TO WISH SOMETHING INTO EXISTENCE TO
[00:01:45] SAY, YOU KNOW, THIS IS THE
[00:01:47] BIGGEST THIS IS THE ECONOMIC
[00:01:49] VERSION OF D-DAY. UM, BUT IT'S
[00:01:52] NOT. UM, NOW, YOU KNOW,
[00:01:56] DEFINITELY SANCTIONS ARE BITING IN IRAN. THEY HURT. OTHER PEOPLE
[00:01:59] ARE HUNGRY. UH, BUT I DON'T
[00:02:03] THINK THIS PARTICULAR REGIME CARES MUCH ABOUT THAT. UM,
[00:02:07] ESPECIALLY IF THEY HAVE FRIENDS IN POWERFUL PLACES IN OTHER CAPITALS, AUTHORITARIAN
[00:02:11] GOVERNMENTS REALLY DON'T SPEND A LOT OF TIME WORRYING TOO MUCH ABOUT THE SUFFERING OF THEIR
[00:02:15] PEOPLE. UM, BUT I ALSO THINK
[00:02:18] THAT, UH, THIS IS A KIND OF A
[00:02:21] LEAKY SET OF SANCTIONS, BECAUSE IT DOESN'T INCLUDE SOME OF THE
[00:02:25] BIGGEST PLAYERS. I DON'T THINK THE CHINESE ARE GOING TO ENDANGER THEIR RELATIONSHIP WITH
[00:02:29] IRAN OVER THIS, LET'S PUT IT THAT WAY. >> WHEN, WHEN YOU SAY THIS IS A
[00:02:32] LEAKY SET OF SANCTIONS, SO WHAT WOULD IT MEAN? WHAT WOULD THAT
[00:02:35] ENTAIL? GOING AFTER THE CHINESE
[00:02:37] AND, AND, AND RUSSIA? WHAT WOULD YOU NEED TO SEE FOR THIS TO BE
[00:02:41] AN ECONOMIC D-DAY? >> UH, IT'D BE HARD. FIRST OF
[00:02:44] ALL, YOU'D HAVE TO HAVE THE COOPERATION OF THOSE GOVERNMENTS. UM, IF WE'RE GOING
[00:02:48] TO STAY WITH THE D-DAY METAPHOR,
[00:02:50] UH, THAT WAS AN ALLIED
[00:02:53] OPERATION. UM, NOT ONE THAT, YOU KNOW, RELUCTANTLY DRAGGED IN
[00:02:56] SOME PEOPLE, WHILE OTHER PEOPLE
[00:02:58] SET IT OUT, UH, SOMEWHERE ELSE
[00:03:01] ON THE BEACH. UM, SO, YOU KNOW,
[00:03:03] WHAT WOULD IT TAKE? UH, I SUPPOSE IT WOULD TAKE TREATING
[00:03:07] CHINA THE WAY WE'RE TREATING CANADA RIGHT NOW. UM, YOU KNOW,
[00:03:10] ONE OF OUR CLOSEST FRIENDS AND
[00:03:12] ALLIES, UH, BUT I, I, I DON'T
[00:03:14] THINK THAT THE ADMINISTRATION
[00:03:16] HAS THE APPETITE FOR THAT BECAUSE OF THE ECONOMIC
[00:03:20] REVERBERATIONS THAT WOULD, WOULD
[00:03:21] HAPPEN IN THE UNITED STATES.
[00:03:25] CHINA GETS ENERGY FROM IRAN. UM, IT'S WORKING WITH THEM ON A LOT
[00:03:29] OF OTHER DIFFERENT LEVELS. I JUST DON'T SEE THE
[00:03:33] ADMINISTRATION, UM, TAKING THAT ON. I MEAN, I THINK THIS IS, I
[00:03:36] THINK THEY RAN OUT OF MILITARY OPTIONS. AND SO THEY REPLACED
[00:03:39] ALL THE MILITARY LANGUAGE THEY WERE USING WITH ECONOMIC TERMS.
[00:03:43] AND THEY'RE HOPING THAT SOMEHOW
[00:03:45] THAT PRODUCES AN EFFECT, UM, WHICH, YOU KNOW, IT, IT MIGHT,
[00:03:49] BUT THAT LOOKS DOUBTFUL RIGHT NOW. >> IS IT MORE EFFECTIVE WITH THE
[00:03:51] U.S. NAVAL BLOCKADE SITTING OFF
[00:03:54] OF IRANIAN PORTS? IS THIS
[00:03:59] SOMETHING THAT JUST TAKES TIME TO SQUEEZE, RATHER THAN SOME
[00:04:02] SORT OF MILITARY STRIKE? THAT
[00:04:03] WOULD BE, UH, QUICK AND DECISIVE?
[00:04:07] >> WELL, ONE THING WE KNOW, EXCUSE ME, FROM THE HISTORY OF SANCTIONS, UM, IN WHENEVER
[00:04:11] THEY'VE BEEN APPLIED, WE KNOW TWO THINGS. FIRST OF ALL,
[00:04:14] SANCTIONS TEND TO WORK BEST BETWEEN TWO COUNTRIES THAT
[00:04:18] ACTUALLY TRADE WITH EACH OTHER.
[00:04:20] UM, YOU HAVE TO HAVE SOMETHING TO SANCTION THAT CAN HURT THE
[00:04:24] OTHER, UH, THE OTHER PARTY. UM,
[00:04:27] AND GIVE THEM SOMETHING TO WANT TO NEGOTIATE ABOUT. UM, THE
[00:04:30] OTHER THING WE KNOW ABOUT SANCTIONS IS THEY TAKE A LONG
[00:04:32] TIME, AND THAT, UM, AS A
[00:04:35] COROLLARY TO THAT, THEY TAKE A LONG TIME AND EVERY KIND OF
[00:04:38] EVERYBODY HAS TO BE IN ON IT.
[00:04:40] AND, UM, I'M JUST NOT SURE THAT JUST LIKE WITH THE WAR ITSELF,
[00:04:43] I'M NOT SURE THAT THE ADMINISTRATION HAS REALLY
[00:04:47] THOUGHT THIS OUT IN TERMS OF HOW THIS IS GOING TO WORK. UM, IF
[00:04:50] YOU'RE GOING TO BLOCKADE IRANIAN PORTS, WHAT ARE YOU BLOCKADING?
[00:04:53] WHICH SHIPS? UH, GET IN AND OUT.
[00:04:56] UH, AND IF YOU'RE GOING TO FIRE
[00:04:58] ON SOMEONE, YOU KNOW, WHO, WHO
[00:05:01] FIND IF THERE'S A RUN OF THE BLOCKADE, WHO ARE YOU SHOOTING
[00:05:04] AT? UM, AND I JUST DON'T,
[00:05:06] AGAIN, I DON'T THINK THEY'VE REALLY THOUGHT THIS OUT. THEY
[00:05:09] KEEP SAYING THINGS AND KIND OF
[00:05:12] HOPING IT PRODUCES A STRATEGIC EFFECT. UM, BUT THAT, YOU KNOW,
[00:05:15] THIS WAS A WAR THAT WAS SUPPOSED
[00:05:17] TO BE OVER IN A WEEK, UH, SIX
[00:05:21] MONTHS AGO., >> IN THE PAGES OF TODAY'S USA
[00:05:25] TODAY, AVIVA COMPASS IS AN OPINION CONTRIBUTOR AND SAYS,
[00:05:27] WE'RE NOT TALKING ENOUGH ABOUT
[00:05:29] THIS MAJOR OUTCOME OF THE
[00:05:31] IRANIAN WAR. SHE'S TALKING ABOUT THE DISRUPTION AND THE
[00:05:35] DISMANTLING OF THE ARMED PARTNERS TO IRAN, STRETCHING
[00:05:38] FROM LEBANON TO GAZA TO SYRIA, IRAQ AND YEMEN, THE SO-CALLED
[00:05:42] AXIS OF RESISTANCE. SHE SAYS THAT IRAN IS INCREASINGLY
[00:05:46] FINDING ITSELF DOING SOMETHING. IT SPENT DECADES TRYING TO
[00:05:49] AVOID, RELYING ON ITS OWN TERRITORY AND ITS OWN
[00:05:51] CAPABILITIES TO SUSTAIN THE CONFRONTATION, SAYING THAT
[00:05:55] DISMANTLING IS SOMETHING THAT
[00:05:56] SHOULD BE TALKED MORE ABOUT AND CELEBRATED.
[00:06:00] >> IT'S A POSITIVE EFFECT, BUT
[00:06:02] IT'S NOT GOING TO BE PERMANENT UNLESS THERE IS SOME KIND OF,
[00:06:06] UH, CHANGE IN THE REGIME, EITHER
[00:06:10] A WHOLESALE COLLAPSE OF THE REGIME, UM, OR SOME SORT OF
[00:06:14] CHANGE IN THEIR POSITION. AND IN FACT, THE IRANIAN POSITION SEEMS
[00:06:17] TO BE HARDENING. YEAH. IT'S GREAT THAT SOME OF THESE IRANIAN
[00:06:19] PROXIES ARE UNDER STRESS, UM, THAT THEY COULD BE DISARMED. YOU
[00:06:24] KNOW, THE OVERALL PICTURE, UM,
[00:06:25] WITH IRAN IS THAT IT'S MILITARILY WEAKER THAN IT WAS
[00:06:29] WHEN THE WAR STARTED. THE PROBLEM IS THAT IRAN IS IN A
[00:06:32] STRONGER STRATEGIC POSITION NOW.
[00:06:35] SO FOCUSING ON, YOU KNOW, WHICH
[00:06:38] PROXIES, UH, HAVE BEEN WEAKENED
[00:06:41] OR STRIPPED OF CAPABILITY, PERFECTLY REASONABLE THING TO
[00:06:45] THINK ABOUT. BUT RIGHT NOW, I THINK WHAT AMERICANS ARE PROBABLY THINKING ABOUT IS THAT
[00:06:49] A DEDICATED ENEMY OF THE UNITED STATES FUNCTIONALLY CONTROLS THE
[00:06:52] STRAIT OF HORMUZ, AND A BIG CHUNK OF THE WORLD'S GLOBAL
[00:06:55] ENERGY SUPPLY, AND, BY EXTENSION, A BIG PIECE OF THE
[00:06:59] GLOBAL ECONOMY. >> LET ME TURN FROM IRAN TO
[00:07:02] UKRAINE. A HEADLINE IN THE POST TODAY ON EUROPEAN LEADERS
[00:07:05] YESTERDAY MARKING UKRAINE'S 35th
[00:07:08] INDEPENDENCE DAY IN KYIV, WITH
[00:07:12] CEREMONIES THERE. WHAT'S YOUR
[00:07:14] SENSE OF THE STATUS OF OF THAT CONFLICT? THERE'S BEEN SOME
[00:07:18] REPORTS ABOUT MOVEMENT AND AND MOMENTUM FOR UKRAINIANS. HOW DO
[00:07:22] YOU READ WHAT'S GOING ON THERE RIGHT NOW IN A REGION THAT'S SO
[00:07:25] HARD TO READ
[00:07:28] >> YEAH. I MEAN, YOU KNOW, I WAS
[00:07:29] ONE OF THE, THE FOLKS THAT WAS
[00:07:33] REALLY WORRIED IN THAT FIRST MONTH THAT, UM, 150,000 RUSSIAN
[00:07:36] TROOPS ATTACKING ON THREE AXES
[00:07:39] OF ADVANCE, UM, WERE NOT GOING
[00:07:43] TO BE BOGGED DOWN VERY LONG IN UKRAINE. I WAS WORRIED ABOUT A
[00:07:46] RELATIVELY RAPID RUSSIAN
[00:07:49] VICTORY. UM, I THINK FOUR YEARS LATER, MORE THAN FOUR YEARS
[00:07:52] LATER. >> AND MORE TALK RADIO SIMULCAST
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