CSPAN3 — History of Artificial Intelligence
20260806 013200 UTC
1684 transcript segments
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[00:00:04] MEDIA WORLD, ONE PLACE BRINGS AMERICA TOGETHER. ACCORDING TO A NEW M&G AND
[00:00:08] RESEARCH REPORT, NEARLY 90 MILLION AMERICANS TURN TO
[00:00:12] C-SPAN. AND THEY'RE ALMOST PERFECTLY BALANCED. 28% CONSERVATIVE, 10% LIBERAL OR
[00:00:18] PROGRESSIVE? 41%. MODERATE. REPUBLIC FANS WATCHING
[00:00:21] DEMOCRATS, DEMOCRATS WATCHING
[00:00:23] REPUBLICANS, MODERATES WATCHING
[00:00:25] ALL SIDES BECAUSE C-SPAN VIEWERS WANT THE FACTS STRAIGHT FROM THE
[00:00:30] SOURCE. NO COMMENTARY, NO AGENDA. JUST DEMOCRACY.
[00:00:34] UNFILTERED. EVERY DAY ON THE C-SPAN NETWORK'S.
[00:00:38] OUR MODERATOR THIS MORNING WILL BE KATHERINE KRAMER BROWN.
[00:00:41] SHE IS A PROFESSOR OF HISTORY
[00:00:43] AND DIRECTOR OF THE CENTER FOR AMERICAN POLITICAL HISTORY MEDIA
[00:00:47] AND TECHNOLOGY AT PURDUE UNIVERSITY. SHE IS THE AUTHOR OF TWO BOOKS,
[00:00:51] SHOWBIZ POLITICS, HOLLYWOOD AND AMERICAN POLITICAL LIFE AND 24
[00:00:55] SEVEN POLITICS, CABLE TELEVISION AND THE FRAGMENTING OF AMERICA
[00:00:58] FROM WATERGATE TO FOX NEWS. SHE ALSO SERVES AS SENIOR EDITOR
[00:01:02] FOR THE MADE BY HISTORY.COM AT TIME MAGAZINE.
[00:01:04] DR. BROWN, OUT OF THE PODIUM IS
[00:01:09] YOURS. THANK YOU.
[00:01:13] GOOD MORNING, EVERYBODY.
[00:01:16] FIRST AND FOREMOST, THANK YOU TO THE AMERICAN HISTORICAL
[00:01:20] ASSOCIATION FOR ALL OF THEIR WORK TO MAKE HISTORICAL
[00:01:23] SCHOLARSHIP RELEVANT AND ACCESSIBLE FOR PEOPLE OUTSIDE THE ACADEMY.
[00:01:28] AND TO ARRANGE EVENTS LIKE THIS.
[00:01:30] THE A.J., I HAVE THE THING, AS
[00:01:32] BEN MENTIONED, THAT EVERYTHING
[00:01:34] HAS A HISTORY AND THAT IS TRUE.
[00:01:37] BUT THAT HISTORY IS MORE THAN
[00:01:39] JUST AN INTERESTING STORY FROM THE PAST.
[00:01:41] IN FACT, IT'S REALLY ESSENTIAL TO UNDERSTANDING THE CURRENT
[00:01:45] MOMENT AND PERHAPS EVEN TO
[00:01:47] REIMAGINING FUTURE PATHWAYS THAT WE MAY PURSUE.
[00:01:50] AND THIS IS A ESPECIALLY TRUE
[00:01:52] WHEN IT COMES TO PUBLIC POLICY
[00:01:54] AND IS ON THE MINDS OF
[00:01:56] EDUCATORS, POLICYMAKERS, BUSINESS LEADERS, WORKERS AS
[00:02:01] THEY THINK THROUGH HOW IT'S CHANGING THE DYNAMICS OF
[00:02:03] EDUCATION AND WORK. BUT IT'S ALSO RAISING REALLY
[00:02:07] IMPORTANT QUESTIONS THAT HAVE TO DO WITH CITIZENSHIP AND HOW TO
[00:02:12] BALANCE AS A POLICY QUESTION, PRIVATE SEE, AND THE RIGHTS OF
[00:02:16] INDIVIDUALS WITH THE IMPERATIVE OF NATIONAL SECURITY AND THE
[00:02:19] OPERATIONS OF A NATIONAL SECURITY STATE.
[00:02:22] WHAT TENSIONS AND CONTRADICTION
[00:02:25] EMERGE AND HOW MIGHT A HISTORICAL LENS HELP US
[00:02:29] UNDERSTAND THE ORIGINS? CONFLICT, ANSWERS AND STAKES OF
[00:02:32] THESE CONTEMPORARY CONVERSATIONS AROUND NEW TECHNOLOGY AND ITS
[00:02:38] RELATIONSHIP TO PRIVACY AND NATIONAL SECURITY?
[00:02:41] THAT'S WHAT WE'RE GOING TO TACKLE HERE TODAY.
[00:02:43] AND WE HAVE AN AMAZING LINEUP OF SCHOLARS TO HELP US DIG INTO
[00:02:47] THESE QUESTIONS AND PROVIDE MUCH NEEDED HISTORICAL CONTEXT, BUT
[00:02:51] ALSO ANALYSIS THAT'S REALLY CRITICALLY IMPORTANT TO REMIND
[00:02:54] US THAT TECHNOLOGY ITSELF DOES NOT CHART ITS OWN COURSE.
[00:02:58] PEOPLE MAKE DECISIONS OVER HOW
[00:03:00] TO USE AND STRUCTURE NEW
[00:03:02] TECHNOLOGY AND UNDERSTANDING
[00:03:05] THESE HISTORICAL DYNAMICS AND THE CONTEXT THAT SHAPES THE
[00:03:09] AVAILABLE CHOICES THAT PEOPLE HAVE. CAN HELP US BETTER UNDERSTAND
[00:03:11] THE POLICY TERRAIN TODAY. SO WE WILL BEGIN.
[00:03:16] I WILL BEGIN WITH INTRODUCTIONS. EACH OF THE PANELISTS WILL OFFER
[00:03:19] SOME REMARKS AND THEN WE'LL
[00:03:22] WE'LL END WITH A Q&A.
[00:03:24] AND EACH OF YOU HAVE A A CARD,
[00:03:26] AN INDEX CARD WHERE YOU CAN WRITE YOUR QUESTIONS, WILL
[00:03:29] COLLECT IT, AND WE'LL USE THE LAST HALF AN HOUR FOR A Q&A.
[00:03:34] SO TO BEGIN OUR PANEL, FIRST WE HAVE FOR I GO WHO IS THE ANDREW
[00:03:38] JACKSON CHAIR? AND AMERICAN HISTORY AT
[00:03:42] VANDERBILT UNIVERSITY. SHE TEACHES AND WRITES ABOUT
[00:03:45] MODERN U.S. CULTURAL, INTELLECTUAL, LEGAL AND
[00:03:47] POLITICAL HISTORY. AND HER BOOKS INCLUDE THE KNOW
[00:03:51] AND CITIZEN A HISTORY OF PRIVACY IN MODERN AMERICA AND THE
[00:03:56] AVERAGE AMERICAN SURVEYS CITIZENS AND THE MAKING OF A
[00:03:58] MASS PUBLIC. EKATERINA BHABHA AND STEPHEN IS
[00:04:02] AN ASSISTANT PROFESSOR IN THE DEPARTMENT OF HISTORY AT PURDUE
[00:04:06] UNIVERSITY. SHE IS A HISTORIAN OF SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY WORKING ON A BOOK
[00:04:10] MANUSCRIPT TENTATIVELY TITLED LEARNING WITH MACHINES IN THE
[00:04:14] COLD WAR, UNITED STATES AND THE SOVIET UNION.
[00:04:17] I FIRST A COMPARATIVE HISTORY
[00:04:19] ABOUT PEDAGOGICAL COMPUTING AND
[00:04:22] ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE RESEARCH IN THE SOVIET UNION AND THE
[00:04:26] UNITED STATES DURING THE COLD WAR.
[00:04:27] REBECCA SLAYTON IS ASSOCIATE
[00:04:30] PROFESSOR IN CORNELL UNIVERSITY CITIES SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY
[00:04:34] STUDIES DEPARTMENT. HER RESEARCH AND TEACHING
[00:04:37] EXAMINE RELATIONSHIPS AMONG RISK
[00:04:39] GOVERNANCE AND EXPERTISE WITH A
[00:04:41] FOCUS ON INTERNATIONAL SECURITY AND COOPERATION.
[00:04:44] SINCE WORLD WAR TWO. HER FIRST BOOK IS ARGUMENTS THAT
[00:04:48] COUNT PHYSICS, COMPUTING AND MISSILE DEFENSE.
[00:04:54] 1949 TO 2012 AND BRENDAN CLASSIC IS ASSISTANT PROFESSOR IN THE
[00:04:56] DEPARTMENT OF HISTORY AT PURDUE UNIVERSITY, AND HE IS WORKING ON
[00:05:00] HIS FIRST BOOK PROJECT THAT IS TENTATIVELY TITLED THE ILL
[00:05:02] DEFINED WORLD A HISTORY OF
[00:05:05] MACHINE LEARNING AND NOVEL POLITICAL KNOWLEDGE, WHICH
[00:05:09] TRACES HOW SCHEMES OF QUANTIFICATION WOULD GO ON TO
[00:05:13] REMAKE CONTEMPORARY A.I.
[00:05:15] SO I WILL TURN THE FLOOR OVER
[00:05:17] NOW TO DR. EDGAR.
[00:05:24] WELL, THANKS, KATIE AND THE HRA
[00:05:26] FOR ORGANIZING THIS SESSION. AND THANKS TO YOU ALL FOR BEING HERE.
[00:05:30] GOOD MORNING. I THINK IT IS SAFE TO SAY THAT
[00:05:33] WE PROBABLY ALL RECOGNIZE THAT WE'RE IN THE MIDST OF AN
[00:05:37] IMPORTANT PUBLIC RECKONING WITH
[00:05:39] A.I., BOTH ITS PROMISE AND ITS PERILS.
[00:05:41] SO I'M REALLY GLAD TO HAVE THIS CHANCE TO THINK WITH YOU ALL ABOUT THAT AND THE IMPLICATIONS
[00:05:45] FOR AMERICANS PRIVACY AND SECURITY. THIS MORNING.
[00:05:49] TO DO SO, HOWEVER, I'M NOT GOING
[00:05:52] TO TALK ABOUT A.I. AT ALL. IN FACT, I'M GOING TO LEAVE THE
[00:05:55] 21ST CENTURY BEHIND AND TRANSPORT US TO THE LATE 19TH
[00:05:59] CENTURY, AN ERA THAT MUCH LIKE
[00:06:01] OURS WAS FILLED WITH DISRUPTIVE
[00:06:05] TECHNOLOGICAL CHANGE. IT WAS ALSO COMPLETE WITH
[00:06:09] MASSIVE PRIVATE ENTITIES THAT
[00:06:12] CONVERTED, BOUGHT AND SOLD
[00:06:14] INFORMATION IN NEW WAYS. SO, NOT COINCIDENTALLY, THIS IS
[00:06:18] THE MOMENT OF THE LATE 19TH CENTURY WHEN MODERN DEBATES OVER
[00:06:22] PRIVACY GET STARTED.
[00:06:25] NOW, ROUGHLY SPEAKING, BEFORE
[00:06:28] THE CIVIL WAR, MOST AMERICANS
[00:06:30] UNDERSTOOD PRIVACY AS CLOSELY LINKED TO THEIR PHYSICAL
[00:06:35] ENVIRONMENT AND THEIR PROPERTY LINES. AND SO THE MOST OBVIOUS
[00:06:37] INFRINGEMENTS OF THEIR PRIVACY CAME IN A KIND OF PHYSICAL
[00:06:41] MANNER. BUT A HOST OF NEW TECHNOLOGIES IN THE LATE 19TH CENTURY WOULD
[00:06:45] CHANGE THIS UNDERSTANDING.
[00:06:47] PARTICULARLY IMPORTANT WHERE A
[00:06:49] SET OF NEW VIRTUAL INVASIONS,
[00:06:52] TELEGRAPH LINES, TELEPHONE
[00:06:54] WIRES, RECORDING DEVICES, THE
[00:06:56] TABLOID PRESS AND WHAT CONTEMPORARIES CALLED
[00:07:00] INSTANTANEOUS PHOTOGRAPHY.
[00:07:02] I PICTURED A FEW OF THESE
[00:07:04] TECHNOLOGIES ON THE HANDOUT. IF YOU WANT TO TAKE A LOOK AT
[00:07:08] THEM OR WHAT THEY LOOKED LIKE TO PEOPLE AND HOW CONTEMPORARIES
[00:07:11] REACTED TO THEM. SO I'LL POINT TO THOSE AS I MOVE ALONG.
[00:07:15] BUT I WANT TO BEGIN WITH THE TELEGRAPH AND THE TELEPHONE ARE
[00:07:17] TWO OF THE DAZZLING INNOVATIONS
[00:07:20] OF THE LATE 19TH CENTURY, 1870S, 1880S.
[00:07:23] THEY BOTH ALLOWED INFORMATION TO
[00:07:25] TRAVEL MUCH MORE SWIFTLY AND EFFICIENTLY THAN EVER BEFORE,
[00:07:29] BUT ALSO LESS SECURELY THAN EVER
[00:07:33] BEFORE. WHICH IS WHY ONE HISTORIAN CALLS THE TELEGRAPH NETWORK THE
[00:07:37] VICTORIAN INTERNET, WHICH I THINK IS A GREAT COINING THE
[00:07:43] TELEGRAPH, LIKE THE INTERNET, POSED A FAMILIAR TRADEOFF
[00:07:46] BETWEEN CONVENIENCE AND PRIVACY.
[00:07:48] IT REQUIRED THE DISCLOSURE OF THE CONTENTS OF ONE'S MESSAGE TO
[00:07:52] A THIRD PARTY AND COMPANIES KEPT
[00:07:54] COPIES, WHICH MIGHT EXIST IN 3 OR 4 SEPARATE LOCATIONS.
[00:07:57] AND THOSE CONTENTS COULD BE SUBPOENAED BY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.
[00:08:01] FOR EXAMPLE, JUST A FEW YEARS
[00:08:04] LATER, AFTER THE TELEGRAPH, THE COMMERCIAL TELEGRAPH REALLY CAME
[00:08:06] INTO BEING WAS THE INTRODUCTION
[00:08:08] OF THE COMMERCIAL TELEPHONE, WHICH LAUNCHED, ACCORDING TO ONE
[00:08:12] OBSERVER, ONCE AND FOR ALL, AN
[00:08:15] ERA OF ELECTRONIC EXHIBITION ISM AND VOYEURISM.
[00:08:18] I MEAN, IT SOUNDS KIND OF RIPPED FROM THE 1990S TO ME.
[00:08:22] YOU SEE THIS ON THE HANDOUT IN
[00:08:24] THAT IMAGE AS AN AT&T AD OF A AN
[00:08:27] OPERATOR REACHING RIGHT INTO
[00:08:29] PEOPLE'S HOMES ON THAT MAP OF THE UNITED STATES.
[00:08:34] THERE WERE OTHER LISTENERS, NOT JUST THE TWO PARTIES TO THE
[00:08:38] CONVERSATION. AND THERE WERE NEW PRACTICES THAT CAME WITH THESE
[00:08:43] TECHNOLOGIES, THE TAPPING OF TELEPHONE WIRES BY CRIMINALS AS
[00:08:47] WELL AS THE POLICE AND SOMETIMES THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT ON NATIONAL SECURITY GROUNDS.
[00:08:51] THIS WILL, IN FACT, BE WELL-KNOWN ENOUGH TO AMERICANS
[00:08:54] TO SPAWN A WHOLE NEW GENERE OF LITERATURE. THE WIRE THRILLER.
[00:09:00] AND YOU SEE AN IMAGE OF THAT ON
[00:09:02] THE TOP LEFT OF THE HANDOUT. A LEGAL DEBATE WOULD SOON BE
[00:09:06] SPARKED BY THESE PRACTICES OF INTERCEPTION.
[00:09:08] DID INFORMATION THAT TRAVELED
[00:09:11] OVER WIRES OR CABLES DESERVE THE
[00:09:13] SAME KIND OF PROTECTIONS AS WRITTEN CORRESPONDENCE?
[00:09:17] IN 1928, A DECADE AFTER THIS OR
[00:09:20] SEVERAL DECADES AFTER THIS TECHNOLOGY HAD COME INTO USE.
[00:09:23] THE SUPREME COURT SAID NO. WIRETAPPING WAS NOT A PRIVACY
[00:09:27] INVASION BECAUSE IT MADE NO PHYSICAL INTRUSION ON SOMEONE'S
[00:09:31] HOME. THE LINES AND CABLES, YOU KNOW,
[00:09:33] WENT OUTSIDE OF THE HOUSE.
[00:09:35] SO THIS RULING WOULD STAY IN PLACE FOR DECADES AND NOT BE
[00:09:41] OVERTURNED UNTIL 1967. AND I JUST WANT TO NOTE THERE,
[00:09:43] THE CHALLENGE POSED BY NEW TECHNOLOGIES IN TERMS OF THE
[00:09:47] REGULATION KEEPING UP WITH THE
[00:09:49] POSSIBLE RISKS.
[00:09:51] THE ANALOGY FROM MAIL TO
[00:09:54] TELEPHONE DIDN'T WORK VERY WELL
[00:09:56] OR SERVE AMERICANS PARTICULARLY WELL.
[00:09:58] OTHER TECHNOLOGIES OF THE DAY, LATE 19TH CENTURY WERE CHANGING
[00:10:02] THE TERMS OF PRIVACY AS WELL,
[00:10:04] INCLUDING THE NOVEL ABILITY TO
[00:10:07] STORE AND DISSEMINATE DATA THAT
[00:10:09] HAD ONCE BEEN EPHEMERAL. AND YOU COULD THINK HERE WE
[00:10:12] DON'T TYPICALLY THINK OF THIS NOW, TODAY AS A KIND OF
[00:10:16] TECHNOLOGY OF CAPTURE, BUT THE PHONOGRAPH ALSO PICTURED FOR YOU
[00:10:20] THERE, WHICH COULD FOR THE FIRST TIME RECORD AND PLAYBACK A HUMAN
[00:10:23] VOICE, FOR EXAMPLE, MORE ALARMING THAN THE PHONOGRAPH TO
[00:10:27] MANY AMERICANS WAS THE DISSEMINATION OF THE PERSONAL
[00:10:30] IMAGE AFFORDED BY NEW TECHNOLOGIES OF EXPOSURE TIMES
[00:10:34] AND INSTANT PHOTOGRAPHY.
[00:10:36] PHOTOGRAPHY HAD ONCE BEEN SLOW
[00:10:38] AND CUMBERSOME SUBJECTS HAD TO SIT FOR A PHOTO.
[00:10:41] THEY COULDN'T BE CAUGHT UNAWARES. BUT THE SHRINKING OF EXPOSURE
[00:10:46] TIMES IN THE 1880S MEANT THAT PICTURE TAKING NO LONGER
[00:10:48] REQUIRED A COOPERATIVE SUBJECT.
[00:10:50] AMATEUR PHOTOGRAPHY WOULD TAKE OFF AND A MARKET FOR IMAGES AS
[00:10:54] WELL. YOU SEE THIS IN THE BROWNIE CAMERA.
[00:10:58] ADVERTISEMENT, AS WELL AS NEW DEVICES FOR SURREPTITIOUS PHOTO
[00:11:02] TAKING. THE APTLY NAMED DETECTIVE
[00:11:06] CAMERAS WERE OFTEN DISGUISED AS OTHER THINGS THAT PEOPLE DIDN'T
[00:11:09] KNOW YOU WERE CARRYING A CAMERA AROUND WITH YOU. ALL OF THIS WOULD OPEN THE
[00:11:13] FLOODGATES FOR THE MASS CIRCULATION OF IMAGES IN THE
[00:11:16] NEWSPAPER AND ELSEWHERE, AND
[00:11:19] ACCOMPANYING STORIES OF SEX, CRIME AND CELEBRITY, WHICH YOU
[00:11:22] SEE IN A CARTOON THERE AS WELL. ALL OF THIS RAISED THE
[00:11:27] POSSIBILITY, A NEW POSSIBILITY OF UNDESIRABLE EXPOSURE AND
[00:11:30] PUBLICITY OF PRIVATE AFFAIRS.
[00:11:32] SO NEW TECHNOLOGY IS THEN, AS
[00:11:36] TODAY, SEEMED TO MAKE MATTER OF FACT, EXPECTATIONS OF PRIVACY
[00:11:41] OBSOLETE. BUT THEY ALSO AND I THINK THIS IS REALLY IMPORTANT TO THINK
[00:11:44] ABOUT TODAY, THEY GENERATE NEW DEFENSES AND SOMETIMES NEW
[00:11:48] DEFINITIONS OF PRIVACY, INDIVIDUAL PRIVACY.
[00:11:52] INDEED, THIS MOMENT WOULD SPARK THE FIRST MODERN STATEMENT OF A
[00:11:55] RIGHT TO PRIVACY. MAKING THE CASE WERE TO BOSTON
[00:11:59] LAWYERS SAMUEL WARREN AND LOUIS
[00:12:01] BRANDEIS IN THE HARVARD LAW REVIEW IN 1890.
[00:12:05] THEY ARGUED THAT NOVEL METHODS OF INTRUSION, ALL OF THOSE
[00:12:09] TECHNOLOGIES SUGGEST RACE THROUGH RECORDING DEVICES, INSTANTANEOUS PHOTOGRAPHY, AN
[00:12:14] AGGRESSIVE PRESS HAD, QUOTE UNQUOTE, INVADED THE SACRED
[00:12:18] PRECINCTS OF PRIVATE AND DOMESTIC LIFE.
[00:12:21] AND SO THEY CALLED FOR A REMEDY
[00:12:23] WHICH THEY CALLED A RIGHT TO BE LET ALONE.
[00:12:27] AND THEY'LL ARGUE, INTERESTINGLY, FOR SOMETHING FAR
[00:12:29] BEYOND MERE PROPERTY RIGHTS,
[00:12:32] SOMETHING THAT WAS FAR LESS TANGIBLE. AND THEY CALLED IT ONE'S
[00:12:37] INVIOLABLE PERSONALITY, ONE'S SELF, AND NEEDED TO BE PROTECTED
[00:12:40] FROM ALL OF THESE INVASIONS.
[00:12:42] SO MORE THAN A CENTURY BEFORE
[00:12:45] THE FRAMING OF A RIGHT TO BE FORGOTTEN FOR DIGITAL AGE
[00:12:48] CITIZENS OR WORRY ABOUT
[00:12:50] DEEPFAKES OR REVENGE --, THIS
[00:12:53] NOTION OF A RIGHT TO ONE'S OWN
[00:12:55] IMAGE, PERSONALITY AND REPUTATION REALLY RESONATED
[00:12:59] QUITE BROADLY. ONE EXAMPLE OF THIS WAS A BILL
[00:13:03] TO PROTECT LADIES THAT WAS INTRODUCED IN THE US HOUSE OF
[00:13:07] REPRESENTATIVES IN 1888 TO BAR WOMEN'S IMAGES FROM BEING USED
[00:13:11] IN COMMERCE WITHOUT THEIR CONSENT.
[00:13:13] AS THIS SUGGESTS, SOME OF THE FIRST RIGHT TO PRIVACY SUITS AND
[00:13:19] CLAIMS IN THE UNITED STATES WERE BROUGHT BY INDIVIDUAL MILLS
[00:13:22] WHOSE IMAGES WERE USED WITHOUT AUTHORIZATION TO ADVERTISE
[00:13:26] PRODUCTS FROM SOAP TO CIGARETS.
[00:13:28] I HAVE PICTURED A COUPLE OF THEM ON THAT HANDOUT AGAIN.
[00:13:32] ONE OF THEM ON THE LEFT THERE WAS MARIANNE MIGNOLA.
[00:13:35] SHE WAS A STAGE ACTRESS. AND SHE WAS PHOTOGRAPHED IN TIGHTS, SHE SAID, WHICH WAS NOT
[00:13:39] MEANT TO BE CIRCULATED BEYOND THE THEATER. AND SHE BROUGHT SUIT FOR THE
[00:13:43] UNWANTED CIRCULATION OF HER IMAGE.
[00:13:47] MORE FAMOUSLY, IN 1902, A YOUNG WOMAN, STILL A TEENAGER AT THIS
[00:13:52] POINT. ABIGAIL ROBERTSON LODGED A SIMILAR COMPLAINT IN NEW YORK
[00:13:57] AGAINST FRANKLIN MILLS FLOWER. SO THE FLOWER MAKER HAD USED HER
[00:14:01] IMAGE. SHE CITED THE MAKING OF 25,000
[00:14:04] LITHOGRAPHIC PRINTS, PHOTOGRAPHS
[00:14:06] AND LIKENESSES OF HERSELF. THEY HAD CIRCULATED THOSE WITHOUT HER KNOWLEDGE AND
[00:14:10] DISPLAYED THEM IN STORES AND
[00:14:12] SALOONS AND OTHER PUBLIC VENUES.
[00:14:14] IN FACT, ROBERTS CLAIMED THAT
[00:14:17] SHE HAD ONLY LEARNED OF THIS ADVERTISING CAMPAIGN WHEN SHE
[00:14:21] GLIMPSED HER OWN FACE ON A
[00:14:22] NEIGHBOR'S BAG OF FLOUR.
[00:14:26] SO THIS SEEMS AMUSING TO US NOW,
[00:14:30] BUT THIS WAS A REAL OFFENSE TO HER.
[00:14:32] SHE CLAIMED GREAT DISTRESS AND
[00:14:36] SUFFERING TO HAVE LOST CONTROL OF HER IMAGE.
[00:14:38] AND IN FACT, SHE WILL WIN IN A LOWER COURT.
[00:14:40] A SYMPATHETIC COURT WILL SAY
[00:14:43] THIS IS A NOVEL CLAIM. BUT THEY RULED IN HER FAVOR.
[00:14:47] JUDGING THAT HER RIGHT OF PRIVACY HAD INDEED BEEN VIOLATED.
[00:14:51] HOWEVER, ANOTHER JUDGE WILL COME ALONG AND OVERTURN THIS VICTORY,
[00:14:56] ARGUING THAT IN A WORLD OF INVISIBLE VIRTUAL CAPTURE BY NEW
[00:14:59] TECHNOLOGIES, PERHAPS THERE WAS NO FEASIBLE CLAIM TO ONE'S OWN
[00:15:02] IMAGE OR ONE'S OWN MOVEMENTS.
[00:15:04] THE SAME CASE, OF COURSE, IS MADE TODAY BY THE MARKETERS OF
[00:15:08] FACIAL RECOGNITION TOOLS AND SCRAPERS OF PUBLICLY AVAILABLE
[00:15:11] DATA OR WRITING. THAT IS, THE BUILDING MATERIAL
[00:15:15] FOR LARGE LANGUAGE MODELS. AND SO WE SEE SIMILAR ARGUMENTS
[00:15:19] TODAY THAT NEW TECHNOLOGIES AND
[00:15:21] THE COLLECTING OF VARIOUS KINDS OF INFORMATION CAN'T BE REINED
[00:15:25] IN EITHER BECAUSE THERE ARE
[00:15:25] OTHER PUBLIC INTERESTS AT STAKE
[00:15:29] OR BECAUSE THE TECHNOLOGY FOR CAPTURE IS ALREADY OUT THERE AND
[00:15:32] BEING DEPLOYED. IT CAN'T BE STOPPED.
[00:15:35] AND SO THE QUESTIONS THAT ROBERSON'S LAWSUIT RAISED MORE
[00:15:38] THAN A CENTURY AGO ARE ONES THAT WE'RE STILL ASKING WHO HAS THE
[00:15:42] RIGHT TO POSSESS OR CONSUME OR CIRCULATE ONES IMAGE? WHAT RIGHT DOES ONE HAVE TO
[00:15:46] ONE'S OWN REPUTATION OR BIOGRAPHICAL OR FINANCIAL OR
[00:15:50] COMMERCIAL DATA? NEVERTHELESS, AS BRANDEIS AND
[00:15:54] WARREN WOULD HAVE HOPED, PUBLIC OUTCRIES OVER NEW TECHNOLOGIES
[00:15:58] HAVE SPARKED INNOVATIVE REMEDIES. AND IN FACT, IT WAS PUBLIC
[00:16:02] OUTRAGE OVER ROBERSON'S CASE BEING OVERTURNED THAT LED THE
[00:16:05] NEW YORK LEGISLATURE TO PASS THE NATION'S VERY FIRST PRIVACY TORT
[00:16:09] STATUTE, ALLOWING INDIVIDUALS TO SUE FOR INVASION OF PRIVACY.
[00:16:12] WHETHER NAME, PORTRAIT OR PICTURE WAS USED WITHOUT CONSENT
[00:16:15] FOR PURPOSES OF TRADE. AND OVER THE COURSE OF THE 20TH
[00:16:19] CENTURY, WE SAW THE DEFINITION
[00:16:20] OF PRIVACY EXPAND DRAMATICALLY.
[00:16:23] AS I NOTED FROM A SHIFT AROUND FROM PROPERTY RIGHTS AND
[00:16:28] PHYSICAL SPACE TO ENCOMPASS THINGS LIKE ONE'S IMAGE AND
[00:16:31] PERSONALITY, COMPUTER ZATION AND
[00:16:34] THE NETWORKED DATABANKS THAT EMERGED IN THE 1960S WOULD
[00:16:37] TRIGGER YET ANOTHER PRIVACY
[00:16:40] DEBATE CENTERING ON THE LAWS,
[00:16:42] NORMS AND REGULATIONS THAT MIGHT SAFEGUARD INDIVIDUAL'S PERSONAL
[00:16:46] DATA, SOMETHING WE'RE GOING TO HEAR MORE ABOUT FROM OTHER PANELISTS.
[00:16:50] BUT IF YOU THINK ABOUT THE COURSE OF OUR UNDERSTANDING OF
[00:16:54] PRIVACY OVER THE LAST CENTURY, ALL KINDS OF NEW THINGS STARTED
[00:16:57] TO BE PART OF THAT DEFINITION ONCE INNER SELF, WHEN
[00:17:01] PSYCHOLOGICAL FREEDOM, ONE'S DECISIONAL AUTONOMY, ONE'S
[00:17:03] OFFICIAL RECORDS AND DIGITAL IDENTITY.
[00:17:05] SO WHAT I HOPE THIS BRIEF
[00:17:09] HISTORICAL TOUR REVEALS IS THAT
[00:17:12] THE PROBLEMS OF EXPOSURE, OF
[00:17:14] CAPTURE, SURVEILLANCE, INTERCEPT AND TRANSMISSION AND
[00:17:18] COMMODIFICATION OF PRIVATE MATERIAL IS NOT AT ALL NEW.
[00:17:20] WE'RE NOW, I THINK, FACING A
[00:17:24] THIRD PIVOTAL MOMENT FOR PUBLIC
[00:17:26] DEBATE AROUND GENERATIVE A.I. IN
[00:17:29] THIS, I THINK WHERE HISTORY IS MAYBE MOST HELPFUL IS NOT
[00:17:33] NECESSARILY IN THE ANALOGIES FROM OLD TECHNOLOGIES TO NEW
[00:17:37] ONES, BUT IN HELPING US SEE PATTERNS, HOW THREATS TO PRIVACY.
[00:17:40] AND THEREFORE, I WOULD ARGUE SECURITY HAVE OFTEN BEEN
[00:17:45] WRECKING SIZED, BUT JUST AS OFTEN PUSHED ASIDE, LOBBIED
[00:17:47] AGAINST OVERWRITTEN OR IGNORED.
[00:17:51] THIS MEANS THAT PUBLIC CONCERNS OVER THE ARRIVAL OF NEW
[00:17:54] TECHNOLOGIES HAVE TYPICALLY BEEN ONLY INCOMPLETELY OR WEAKLY
[00:17:58] RESOLVED. IN THE AGE OF AI, AND WITH SO
[00:18:01] MUCH AT STAKE IN OTHER WORDS, WE
[00:18:03] MAY NOT WANT TO ALLOW THE PAST TO SHAPE OUR SENSE OF
[00:18:07] POSSIBILITY AROUND POLICY SOLUTIONS.
[00:18:09] THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
[00:18:18] GOOD MORNING, EVERYONE. THANK YOU SO MUCH.
[00:18:23] TODAY FOR ORGANIZING THIS PANEL
[00:18:26] AND IT IS SUCH A PLEASURE TO BE A PART OF IT AND TO PRESENT TO
[00:18:29] THIS AUDIENCE. THE FIRST ARTIFICIAL
[00:18:33] INTELLIGENCE SYSTEM THAT WAS DEVELOPED IN THE MID 1950S BY
[00:18:38] POLITICAL SCIENTIST HERBERT SIMON AND MATHEMATIC ITION ALAN
[00:18:42] NEWELL AT THE RAND CORPORATION, A MILITARY STRATEGY THINK TANK
[00:18:46] IN SANTA MONICA, CALIFORNIA,
[00:18:49] NAMED THE LOGIC THEORY MACHINE.
[00:18:51] SIMON IN YOUR SYSTEM, AUTOMATED MATHEMATICAL CALCULATION.
[00:18:56] IT PROVED THEOREMS FROM
[00:18:58] PRINCIPLE MATHEMATICA BY ALFRED WHITEHEAD AND BERTRAND RUSSELL.
[00:19:03] SIMON EMPHASIZED THAT THE
[00:19:05] ALGORITHMS OF THE LOGIC THEORY MACHINE MIMICKED THE VERY WAY
[00:19:09] HUMANS SOLVE PROBLEMS IN
[00:19:13] ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE HAS DRAMATICALLY CHANGED SINCE THE 1950S.
[00:19:18] I DEVELOPERS NO LONGER TRY TO EMULATE THE WORKINGS OF THE HUMAN MIND.
[00:19:22] AND MORE IMPORTANTLY FOR MY PRESENTATION TODAY, AI SYSTEMS
[00:19:25] ARE NO LONGER EXCLUSIVELY BOUND
[00:19:29] TO ELITE UNIVERSITIES AND PRESTIGIOUS THINK TANKS.
[00:19:33] ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE HAS CEASED TO BE A PURELY ACADEMIC
[00:19:37] PURSUIT. IT HAS EVOLVED IN A VERY TYPE OF
[00:19:40] UBIQUITOUS COMMERCIALLY AVAILABLE PRODUCTS, AND A.I. HAS
[00:19:44] BECOME DEEPLY INTERACTIVE, DATA
[00:19:48] DRIVEN. AI ALGORITHMS USE OUR DATA TO
[00:19:51] SHAPE WHAT WE SEE WHEN WE OPEN SOCIAL PLATFORMS AND SEARCH
[00:19:55] ENGINES AND SYSTEMS THAT USE
[00:19:57] LARGE LANGUAGE MODELS CAN NOW
[00:19:59] ENGAGED IN FLUID CONVERSATIONS.
[00:20:02] AND IT IS THESE INTERACTIVE
[00:20:04] ABILITIES OF PRESENT DAY AI THAT
[00:20:06] HAS BEEN OF PUBLIC CONCERN RECENTLY.
[00:20:10] MACHINE LEARNING HAS PROVEN TO BE EFFECTIVE IN MICROTARGETING
[00:20:13] CAMPAIGNS AND IN MANIPULATING USERS EMOTIONS.
[00:20:17] AND GENERATIVE AI IS EXCELLENT
[00:20:19] AT PRODUCING CONVINCING AND BUT
[00:20:22] ALWAYS BUT NOT ALWAYS ACCURATE TEXTS.
[00:20:24] MACHINE LEARNING AND GENERATIVE
[00:20:26] AI ALGORITHMS ARE RAISING
[00:20:29] CONCERNS ABOUT THE POTENTIAL OF
[00:20:31] THIS TECHNOLOGY TO SHAPE HUMAN
[00:20:33] BEHAVIOR AND INFLUENCE PUBLIC OPINION.
[00:20:37] ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE HAS CHANGED SINCE THE 1950S, BUT THE
[00:20:41] CAPACITY OF COMPUTER SYSTEMS TO
[00:20:43] INFLUENCE HOW WE ACT AND REASON
[00:20:45] HAS A HISTORY AND THE ROOTS OF
[00:20:47] THIS HISTORY ARE IN THE HISTORY
[00:20:50] OF COMPUTING. SO WITH MY TIME TODAY, I'D LIKE
[00:20:54] TO PRESENT A FEW HISTORY ARTICLE
[00:20:56] EXAMPLES THAT SHOW HOW THE HISTORY OF COMPUTING HAS BEEN
[00:21:00] ENTANGLED WITH EFFORTS TO INFLUENCE HUMAN BEHAVIOR AND
[00:21:04] THINKING. DURING THE WORLD WAR TWO, M.I.T.
[00:21:09] BASED MATHEMATICIAN NORBERT WIENER WORKED WITH ENGINEER
[00:21:11] JULIAN BIGELOW AT MIT'S
[00:21:13] RADIATION LABORATORY TO CREATE A
[00:21:17] DEVICE THAT COULD PREDICT THE PATH OF AN ENEMY AIRCRAFT.
[00:21:21] WITNESS. AND BIGELOW'S RESEARCH WAS SUPPORTED BY THE NATIONAL
[00:21:24] DEFENSE RESEARCH COMMITTEE.
[00:21:26] THE DEVICE THEY CREATED, THE ANTI AIRCRAFT PREDICTOR, WAS AN
[00:21:30] ELECTROMECHANICAL COMPUTER THAT
[00:21:32] USED DATA FROM RADAR TRACKERS TO
[00:21:35] MAKE A STATISTICAL FORECAST ABOUT THE FUTURE FLIGHT
[00:21:38] TRAJECTORY OF AN ENEMY AIRPLANE. THE PREDICTOR WAS CONNECTED TO
[00:21:42] AN AUTOMATIC GUN LANE SYSTEM TO
[00:21:44] AIM AT THE ENEMY TARGETS. OF COURSE, THE TRAJECTORY OF THE
[00:21:48] ENEMY AIRCRAFT WAS DETERMINED BY THE PILOTS DECISIONS.
[00:21:52] SO ESSENTIALLY, WIENER'S COMPUTER USED RADAR DATA TO
[00:21:56] PREDICT THE BEHAVIOR OF THE ENEMY PILOTS.
[00:21:59] NOR DID WIENER'S ANTI AIRCRAFT PREDICTOR WAS NEVER IMPLEMENTED
[00:22:04] ON THE BATTLEFIELD. ON A PRACTICAL LEVEL, IT WAS OF
[00:22:07] LITTLE VALUE, BUT ONLY THEORETICAL LEVEL.
[00:22:09] IT PRODUCED A MACHINE MAGICAL
[00:22:11] THEORY OF STATISTICAL PREDICTION
[00:22:13] AND A NEW INTERDISCIPLINARY
[00:22:16] APPROACH CALLED CYBERNETICS.
[00:22:18] CYBERNETICS ORIGINATES FROM A
[00:22:20] GREEK WORD DENOTING
[00:22:22] STATESMANSHIP OR GOVERNANCE. CYBERNETICS BECAME AN
[00:22:26] INTERDISCIPLINARY SCIENCE THAT
[00:22:28] THEORIZED HUMANS AND MACHINES AS
[00:22:30] INFORMATION PROCESSING SPECIES
[00:22:33] WHOSE BEHAVIOR IS SHAPED BY THE
[00:22:35] INFORMATION THEY RECEIVE FROM THE SURROUNDING WORLD.
[00:22:39] WIENER EXPLAINED THE MAIN TENETS
[00:22:42] OF THIS SCIENCE IN HIS 1948
[00:22:44] MONOGRAPH CYBERNET ETHICS OR
[00:22:46] CONTROL AND COMMUNICATION IN THE ANIMAL AND THE MACHINE.
[00:22:49] AND YOU CAN SEE THE COVER OF THIS MONOGRAPH IN THE HANDOUT
[00:22:53] THAT WAS DISTRIBUTED.
[00:22:55] WIENER'S WORK PROVED TO BE
[00:22:57] INFLUENTIAL ACROSS GEOGRAPHICAL
[00:22:59] AND RESEARCH CONTEXTS, AND IT
[00:23:01] BECAME ESPECIALLY RELEVANT IN
[00:23:04] THE FIELD OF COMPUTER NETWORK DEVELOPMENT.
[00:23:07] ONE COMPUTING PROJECT INSPIRED
[00:23:10] BY CYBERNETICS WAS THE PEDAGOGY
[00:23:12] SCHOOL COMPUTER NAMED PROGRAMED LOGIC FOR AUTOMATED TEACHING
[00:23:16] OPERATE OR PLATO. AND ONCE AGAIN, IF YOU LOOK AT IF YOU TAKE A LOOK AT THE
[00:23:20] HANDOUT, YOU'LL SEE WHAT THAT COMPUTER LOOKED LIKE.
[00:23:23] SO THE PURPOSE OF PLATO WAS TO
[00:23:25] REPLACE HUMAN INSTRUCT US.
[00:23:28] THE FIRST VERSION OF PLATO WAS
[00:23:30] DEVELOPED AT THE COORDINATOR SCIENCES LABORATORY AT THE
[00:23:33] UNIVERSITY OF ILLINOIS IN 1959.
[00:23:37] DURING THE KOREAN WAR, THE COORDINATED SCIENCE LABORATORY
[00:23:40] WAS NAMED CONTROL OF SCIENCE
[00:23:42] LABORATORY, AND IT RECEIVED U.S. GOVERNMENT FUNDING TO CONDUCT
[00:23:46] RESEARCH THAT SUPPORTED THE U.S. WARTIME EFFORT.
[00:23:49] FOR INSTANCE, THE LABORATORY
[00:23:51] WORKED ON RADAR TECHNOLOGY AND COMPUTER CONTROLLED DEFENSE
[00:23:55] SYSTEMS. THE LABORATORY WAS HOME TO THE
[00:23:58] POWERFUL ELLIOTT COMPUTER, ONE OF THE FIRST MIDCENTURY DIGITAL
[00:24:02] COMPUTERS. SIX YEARS AFTER THE END OF THE KOREAN WAR, THE LABORATORY
[00:24:07] RECEIVED A MANDATE TO INCREASE COOPERATION WITH OTHER UNITS
[00:24:10] WITHIN THE UNIVERSITY OF ILLINOIS AND DEVELOP RESEARCH
[00:24:14] PROJECTS RELEVANT TO THE CIVILIAN NEEDS.
[00:24:16] THE PLATO PROJECT WAS A PART OF
[00:24:19] CIA CELLS RESEARCH REORIENTATION.
[00:24:22] PLATO WAS AN INTERACTIVE COMPUTER NETWORK CONSISTING OF
[00:24:25] COMPUTER TERMINALS CONNECTED TO THE ILIAC.
[00:24:29] A STUDENT LEARNING WITH THE PLATO COMPUTER SAT AT A TERMINAL
[00:24:32] WHERE THEY WERE PRESENTED WITH COURSE MATERIAL WHICH WAS FOLLOWED BY PROBLEMS AND
[00:24:37] QUESTIONS. THE SYSTEM ALLOWED STUDENTS TO
[00:24:39] CONTROL THE PACE OF THEIR STUDY FROM THE 1960S AND UNTIL THE
[00:24:43] LATE 1980S, PLATO WAS USED TO TEACH VIRTUALLY ANY SUBJECT.
[00:24:47] PLATO WAS A PRODUCT OF
[00:24:49] INTERDISCIPLINARY EXPERTISE, WHICH INCLUDED COMPUTER ENGINEERS AS WELL AS
[00:24:55] PSYCHOLOGISTS AND EDUCATORS. AT THE START OF THE PROJECT,
[00:24:58] PSYCHOLOGIST LAWRENCE WROTE,
[00:25:00] CONTRIBUTED TO THE DESIGN OF THE PLATO COMPUTER.
[00:25:04] STELLARIUM HELD A LAUNCH AND AN INTEREST IN THE DESIGN OF
[00:25:08] SPECIAL TEACHING MACHINES THAT COULD REPLACE HUMAN INSTRUCTORS.
[00:25:12] HIS INTEREST IN THE SUBJECT WAS IGNITED BY THE WORK OF HARVARD
[00:25:15] BASED PSYCHOLOGY SHIFT. B.F. SKINNER IN THE 1940S.
[00:25:19] SKINNER PERFORMED A SERIES OF EXPERIMENTS WITH ANIMALS TO
[00:25:23] ARGUE THAT IT IS POSSIBLE TO ENGINEER THE BEHAVIOR OF LIVING
[00:25:27] ORGANISMS THROUGH CAREFULLY ARRANGED ENVIRONMENTAL STIMULI.
[00:25:31] FOR EXAMPLE, HE DEMONSTRATED HOW
[00:25:33] BY PRESENTING FOOD TO HUNGRY PIGEONS, IT WAS POSSIBLE TO
[00:25:37] TRAIN THEM, EXHIBIT SPECIFIC RESPONSES SUCH AS TURNING
[00:25:40] AROUND, STAMPING THE FOOD AND SO
[00:25:42] ON, AND DRAWING ON THESE EXPERIMENTS.
[00:25:45] SKINNER ARGUED THAT THE BEHAVIOR OF ALL ORGANISMS, INCLUDING
[00:25:49] HUMANS, COULD BE ENGINEERED BY
[00:25:51] CONTROLLED ENVIRONMENT, MENTAL
[00:25:54] CONDITIONS. AT HARVARD, SKINNER WORKED ON DESIGNING TECHNOLOGY THAT COULD
[00:25:58] SHAPE HUMAN BEHAVIOR. AND ONE OF SUCH TECHNOLOGIES WAS
[00:26:01] THE MECHANICAL TEACHING MACHINE. SKINNER, I SHOULD NOTE, VIEWED
[00:26:06] LEARNING AS A FORM OF HUMAN BEHAVIOR.
[00:26:08] HIS MACHINES PRESENTED LEARNING
[00:26:11] MATERIAL IN SMALL, SPECIALLY ARRANGED INCREMENTAL STEPS.
[00:26:14] EACH OF WHICH WAS FOLLOWED BY A QUESTION OR A PROBLEM THAT
[00:26:17] REQUIRED A BRIEF ANSWER.
[00:26:19] SO THESE MACHINES ALLOWED STUDENTS TO PROCEED ONLY AFTER
[00:26:24] CORRECT RESPONSE. AND THIS ENTIRE PROCESS CONTROLLED STUDENTS LEARNING OF
[00:26:28] EVERY TINY PIECE OF MATERIAL. SO AT THE UNIVERSITY OF
[00:26:31] ILLINOIS, LAWRENCE STOLLER WAS A
[00:26:33] BIG PROPONENT OF SKINNER'S METHOD.
[00:26:36] BUT STILL, THE ROW ALSO SAW HOW SKINNER'S MACHINE COULD BE IMPROVED.
[00:26:40] AND HERE HE FOUND CYBERNETICS TO
[00:26:43] BE USEFUL IN BETWEEN HIS SCHEME
[00:26:45] PILOTS AND ANTIAIRCRAFT WEAPONS
[00:26:48] WERE BOTH SYSTEMS THAT MODIFIED THE BEHAVIOR BASED ON THE
[00:26:52] INFORMATION THEY RECEIVED FROM THE SURROUNDING WORLD.
[00:26:56] STILL, LAREAU AGREED WITH SKINNER THAT TEACHING TECHNOLOGY
[00:26:59] SHOULD DELIVER WELL CALIBRATED
[00:27:01] CUES, RESPONSES AND FEEDBACK
[00:27:03] LOOPS TO CONTROL STUDENT BEHAVIOR.
[00:27:05] BUT SIMILAR TO THE AIRCRAFT
[00:27:09] PREDICTOR, TEACHING TECHNOLOGY SHOULD BE ADAPTABLE. IT SHOULD ADJUST ITSELF BASED ON
[00:27:13] THE DATA IT RECEIVES ABOUT THE STUDENT AND THE DIGITAL COMPUTER.
[00:27:18] ACCORDING TO STELLA ROWE, COULD DELIVER SUCH AN ADAPTABLE FORM OF CONTROL.
[00:27:22] AND THIS IS THE VISION THAT STOLLER BROUGHT TO THE PLATO
[00:27:26] SYSTEM. STILL, THE ROW SOON LEFT THE
[00:27:29] PLATO PROJECT TO WORK ON ANOTHER COMPUTER BASED EDUCATIONAL
[00:27:33] SYSTEM. BUT THE EFFORT TO USE A DATABASE APPROACH TO BETTER CONTROL
[00:27:37] STUDENTS BEHAVIOR PERSISTED.
[00:27:39] IN 1964, ANOTHER PSYCHOLOGIST,
[00:27:42] JOHN EASLEY, JOINED THE PLATO PROJECT.
[00:27:44] HE LED A TEAM OF 19 RESEARCHERS
[00:27:47] WHO WERE TASKED WITH CREATING A
[00:27:49] PROGRAM THAT WOULD ALLOW PLATO
[00:27:51] TO RECORD AND ANALYZE STUDENT RESPONSE DATA.
[00:27:55] AND CALIBRATE THE EDUCATIONAL MATERIAL BASED ON THIS DATA
[00:27:59] ANALYSIS. THEIR WORK WAS SUPPORTED BY THE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH
[00:28:04] EDUCATION AND WELFARE AND THE DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE'S ADVANCED
[00:28:07] RESEARCH PROJECT AGENCY. EASLEY AND HIS COLLEAGUES HOPED
[00:28:11] THAT THE GIGANTIC AMOUNTS OF
[00:28:13] DATA COLLECTED ABOUT STUDENTS INTERACTIONS WITH THE PLATO
[00:28:17] SYSTEM, WHICH KEY THEY PRESS HOW MANY MINUTES THEY SPEND ON EACH
[00:28:20] QUESTION WOULD OFFER INSIGHT INTO STUDENTS STYLES OF THOUGHT
[00:28:24] AND LEARNING.
[00:28:26] THE IDEA WAS THAT SUCH A PROGRAM
[00:28:28] WOULD MAKE PLATO MORE ADAPTABLE TO INDIVIDUAL STUDENTS NEEDS.
[00:28:32] THE PROJECT LASTED FOR THREE YEARS AND EVENTUALLY EASILY
[00:28:37] ABANDONED IT IN 1967. BUT LATER HE WOULD CONFESS THAT
[00:28:41] HE WAS DROWNING IN THE OVERFLOW
[00:28:43] OF DATA SO EASILY, STEAM DID NOT
[00:28:45] MANAGE TO CREATE A PROGRAM THAT
[00:28:48] COULD TURN THE PLATO SYSTEM INTO A DATA DRIVEN TEACHING
[00:28:52] TECHNOLOGY. WHILE BEING UNSUCCESSFUL IS THIS
[00:28:56] PROJECT WAS ONE OF THE FIRST ATTEMPTS TO AGGREGATE DATA IN
[00:29:00] ORDER TO BETTER CONTROL USER
[00:29:02] BEHAVIOR VIA INTERACTIVE COMPUTER TECHNOLOGY.
[00:29:06] THIS WAS DONE IN GOOD FAITH. OF COURSE, THE INTENTION WAS TO
[00:29:08] MAKE EDUCATION MORE ACCESSIBLE.
[00:29:12] FROM THE VERY EARLY DAYS OF THE
[00:29:14] HISTORY OF THE DIGITAL COMPUTER AND COMPUTER NETWORKS, THE
[00:29:18] QUESTIONS OF HUMAN BEHAVIOR AND COGNITION PLAYED AN IMPORTANT
[00:29:21] ROLE IN THE DEVELOPMENT OF THIS TECHNOLOGY AND THE HISTORY OF
[00:29:25] THE PLATO COMPUTER IS NOT THE ONLY EXAMPLE OF THAT.
[00:29:29] PSYCHOLOGIST JOSEPH LECLERC TO
[00:29:32] SET THE VISION FOR HOW THE OPEN YET A PRECURSOR OF THE
[00:29:36] CONTEMPORARY INTERNET COULD EXPAND AND ENHANCE THE COGNITIVE
[00:29:40] CAPACITIES OF ITS USERS. THE OPEN ACT WAS A WIDE AREA
[00:29:44] COMPUTER NETWORK DEVELOPED BY THE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE'S
[00:29:48] ADVANCED RESEARCH PROJECTS AGENCY. THE NETWORK CONNECTED U.S.
[00:29:53] UNIVERSITIES AND RESEARCH INSTITUTES THAT CONDUCTED PIONEERING WORK IN COMPUTER
[00:29:58] ENGINEER AND COMPUTER SCIENCE AT ARPA.
[00:30:00] JOSEPH LEE COLLIDER DIRECTED INFORMATION PROCESSING
[00:30:03] TECHNIQUES OFFICE IN 1969 YEARS
[00:30:06] BEFORE THE ARPANET BECAME OPERATIONAL.
[00:30:09] THE CLYDE PUBLISHED AN INFLUENTIAL PAPER TITLED MEN
[00:30:13] COMPUTERS SYMBIOSIS, WHERE HE
[00:30:15] DESCRIBED AN INTERACTIVE COMPUTER NETWORK THAT WOULD
[00:30:18] ALLOW FOR A SYMBIOTIC RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN HUMAN MINDS
[00:30:22] WITH THEIR ABILITY FOR CREATIVE REASONING AND JUDGMENT.
[00:30:25] ON THE ONE HAND, AND COMPUTERS WITH THEIR SUPERIOR ABILITY FOR
[00:30:29] DATA STORAGE AND PROCESSING.
[00:30:32] IN THE 20TH CENTURY, COMPUTER TECHNOLOGY HAS BEEN A PRODUCT OF
[00:30:36] INTO DISCIPLINARY EXPERTISE WITH PSYCHOLOGY, SETTING THE TASKS
[00:30:40] AND GOALS FOR THIS TECHNOLOGIES INTERACTIVE AND INFORMATION
[00:30:45] PROCESSING CAPABILITIES.
[00:30:46] IN THE 20TH CENTURY, COMPUTERS THEREFORE WERE CONCEIVED AS
[00:30:51] BEHAVIORAL AND COGNITIVE TOOLS TO INFLUENCE HUMAN BEHAVIOR AND
[00:30:55] THINKING IN THE EXAMPLES THEY PROVIDED TODAY.
[00:30:58] THERE WAS NO NEFARIOUS PLAN AT THE UNIVERSITY OF ILLINOIS,
[00:31:02] PSYCHOLOGISTS VIEWED BEHAVIORAL CONTROL AS A KEY TO BETTER
[00:31:06] EDUCATION, AND IT AUTHOR JOSEPH ALEC LEIDER SAW INTERACTIVE
[00:31:11] COMPUTING AS A TOOL TO ENHANCE HUMAN COGNITIVE CAPACITIES.
[00:31:15] RESEARCHERS AT THE UNIVERSITY OF ILLINOIS AND ARPA WORK MOTIVATED
[00:31:17] BY GOOD INTENTIONS. AND WHILE THERE IS A CLEAR
[00:31:21] HISTORICAL TRAJECTORY IN THE
[00:31:23] DESIGN OF COMPUTER TECHNOLOGY TO INFLUENCE HUMAN BEHAVIOR AND
[00:31:27] THINKING, PRESENT DAY AI DRIVEN COMPUTER SYSTEMS ARE POWERED BY
[00:31:32] MASSIVE COMPUTING INFRASTRUCTURE AND PRIVATE INVESTMENT.
[00:31:35] GIVEN THEIR TECHNOLOGICAL POWER AND REACH, WE SHOULD PERHAPS BE
[00:31:39] EXTRA CAUTIOUS ABOUT THEIR CAPACITY TO INFLUENCE HOW WE THINK AND ACT.
[00:31:43] THANK YOU.
[00:31:49] GREAT. THANK YOU.
[00:31:51] SO IF I CAN GET THIS SET UP, I'M
[00:31:56] GOING TO PICK UP WHERE SARAH AND
[00:31:58] KUTCHER LEFT OFF BY TALKING ABOUT WHEN DIGITAL ELECTRONIC
[00:32:02] COMPUTERS STARTED TO PROVOKE ANXIETIES ABOUT PRIVACY AND SECURITY.
[00:32:05] SO IN THE 1960S, THAT PERIOD THAT KUTCHER SPOKE ABOUT A
[00:32:08] LITTLE BIT, ONE OF THE PERIOD SHE SPOKE ABOUT COMPUTERS WERE
[00:32:12] HUGE ROOMS AND THEY FILLED HUGE ROOMS. THEY'RE BIG MACHINES.
[00:32:15] THEY WERE SYMBOLS OF IMPERSONAL BUREAUCRATIC ORGANIZATIONS.
[00:32:19] THEY'VE SEEN A VERY DEHUMANIZING. SO WHEN THE UNITED STATES
[00:32:23] PROPOSED CREATING A CENTRALIZED DATABASE TO ALLOW FEDERAL
[00:32:25] AGENCIES TO SHARE INFORMATION ABOUT INDIVIDUALS, THERE WAS A
[00:32:29] MAJOR DEBATE ABOUT THAT. AND THAT WAS ONE OF THE FIRST DEBATES ABOUT THE IMPACTS OF
[00:32:34] COMPUTERIZED VERSION ON PERSONAL PRIVACY. SO JUST TO GIVE YOU A SENSE OF
[00:32:38] THE KINDS OF CONCERNS THAT WERE RAISED AT ONE MAJOR COMPUTING
[00:32:42] CONFERENCE, THAT CONGRESSIONAL REPRESENTATIVE ARGUED THAT, QUOTE, AMERICA HAS ALWAYS
[00:32:46] REPRESENTED FOR ME A PLACE WHERE AN INDIVIDUAL COULD CHANGE HIS
[00:32:49] MIND, HIS BELIEFS AND OUTLOOK ON
[00:32:51] LIFE AND STILL BE ABLE TO LIVE AS A FREE AND VALUABLE COMPONENT
[00:32:55] OF OUR SOCIETY. THE AMERICA I HAVE DESCRIBED
[00:32:58] CANNOT BE THE SAME AMERICA,
[00:33:00] AFTER A CENTRALIZED COMPUTER SYSTEM, A SYSTEM WHICH NEITHER
[00:33:04] FORGIVES NOR FORGETS IS INTRODUCED END QUOTE.
[00:33:06] NOW, SOME COMPUTER SCIENTIST SUGGESTED THAT THIS WAS ACTUALLY
[00:33:10] THE WRONG WAY TO THINK ABOUT THE TECHNOLOGIES THAT WERE DEVELOPING.
[00:33:14] SO IN 1966, CONGRESSIONAL HEARINGS, THE COMPUTER
[00:33:16] SCIENTIST, PAUL BARON, TESTIFIED, QUOTE, TODAY WE CAN
[00:33:20] SEE THE INDEPENDENT PRIVATE AUTOMATE INFORMATION SYSTEMS
[00:33:23] BEING INTERCONNECTED TO FORM
[00:33:25] LARGER GROWING SYSTEMS, WHICH ARE IN MANY WAYS MORE DANGEROUS
[00:33:29] THAN THE SINGLE DATA BANK. NOW BEING CONSIDERED. IN OTHER WORDS, IT WAS THE
[00:33:33] INTERNET NETWORKING OF MANY DIFFERENT SYSTEMS, MOSTLY
[00:33:36] CONTROLLED BY THE PRIVATE SECTOR, THAT WERE GOING TO
[00:33:38] EVENTUALLY POSE THE GREATEST THREAT. AND IF YOU'RE WONDERING WHY WE SHOULD LISTEN TO THIS GUY, PAUL
[00:33:42] BARON, HE'S THE PERSON WHO CAME UP WITH THE ARCHITECTURE FOR THE INTERNET. AND THE WHOLE ARCHITECTURE FOR
[00:33:46] PACKET SWITCHING. SO I START WITH THIS HISTORICAL
[00:33:50] MOMENT BECAUSE IT'S A REMINDER THAT THE INFRASTRUCTURE FEATURES THAT ENABLE A.I. TODAY, THE
[00:33:54] INTERNET MASSIVELY INTERCONNECTED DATABASES WERE UNDER DEVELOPMENT 60 YEARS AGO
[00:33:58] AND PEOPLE WERE WORRIED THEN, RIGHT? SO THE QUESTION IS, WHAT
[00:34:02] HAPPENED? RIGHT. WHY, DESPITE THESE EARLY WARNINGS, HAS ARTIFICIAL
[00:34:06] INTELLIGENCE BEEN DEVELOPED IN WAYS THAT CURRENTLY THREATEN PRIVACY AND SECURITY?
[00:34:09] AND I WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT IT DOESN'T ONLY THREATEN PRIVACY
[00:34:13] AND SECURITY, THERE ARE WAYS OF USING A.I. THAT ARE NOT NECESSARILY A THREAT, BUT THERE
[00:34:17] ARE SOME REALLY LEGITIMATE CONCERNS OUT THERE. SO THERE'S NO SIMPLE ANSWER TO THIS QUESTION.
[00:34:20] BUT I'M GOING TO ATTEMPT A PARTIAL ONE.
[00:34:23] PART OF THE ANSWER HAS TO DO WITH HOW WE CAME TO DEFINE SECURITY AND PRIVACY.
[00:34:27] SO IN THE 1970S, INFORMATION SECURITY CAME TO REFER TO THE
[00:34:31] CONFIDENTIALITY, INTEGRITY AND AVAILABILITY OF INFORMATION.
[00:34:34] SO CIA IS THE NICE ACRONYM THAT SEEMS FITTING.
[00:34:38] THAT TRIAD, THIS UNDERSTANDING
[00:34:40] OF SECURITY CAME FROM THE U.S.
[00:34:42] MILITARY INTELLIGENCE AGENCIES, AND IT WAS A RELATIVELY NARROW
[00:34:46] TECHNICAL DEFINITION. PRIVACY ON THE OTHER HAND, CAME TO BE SEEN AS SOMETHING BROADER
[00:34:49] AND MORE SUBJECTIVE, LARGELY DOMAIN OF CIVIL SOCIETY AND
[00:34:53] CIVIL GOVERNMENT. AND WE DEVELOPED A TENDENCY TO
[00:34:56] SEE SECURITY AND PRIVACY AS BEING IN TENSION, BECAUSE THERE
[00:34:58] ARE TIMES WHEN SOCIETY'S RIGHT TO KNOW OUTWEIGHS AN
[00:35:02] INDIVIDUAL'S RIGHT TO PRIVACY. OBVIOUSLY, THAT'S A LOT OF WHY PEOPLE HAVE DRIVEN FOR THE
[00:35:05] RELEASE OF THE EPSTEIN FILES, FOR EXAMPLE. BUT THERE'S A LOT OF OTHER
[00:35:08] EXAMPLES LIKE THAT. SO PRIVACY HAD SOMETHING TO DO
[00:35:12] WITH CONFIDENTIALITY, INTEGRITY AND AVAILABILITY, EVEN FORMATION.
[00:35:15] BUT IT'S ALSO ABOUT THE WAYS THAT INFORMATION, INCLUDING ERRONEOUS OR INACCURATE
[00:35:19] INFORMATION, CAN BE MISUSED. FOR EXAMPLE, TO DENY PEOPLE
[00:35:23] ACCESS TO HOMES, JOBS AND LOANS.
[00:35:27] MORE THINGS LIKE THAT. SO IT CAN HAVE A VERY DESTRUCTIVE EFFECT ON PEOPLE'S LIVES.
[00:35:31] AND THAT SENSE, WE CAN ACTUALLY UNDERSTAND VIOLATIONS OF PRIVACY
[00:35:34] AS VIOLATIONS OF HUMAN SECURITY, BE UNDERSTOOD AS FREEDOM FROM
[00:35:37] FEAR, FREEDOM FROM WANT, AND THE FREEDOM TO PURSUE NEW OPPORTUNITIES.
[00:35:40] SO THAT'S JUST TO SAY THAT WE SHOULD RECOGNIZE THERE ARE MANY
[00:35:43] DIFFERENT KINDS OF SECURITY, NATIONAL SECURITY, INDIVIDUAL HUMAN SECURITY.
[00:35:47] THEY'RE NOT ALWAYS IN CONFLICT. AND PRIVACY ACTUALLY CAN BE
[00:35:51] UNDERSTOOD AS A KIND OF HUMAN SECURITY. BUT THEY'VE MOSTLY BEEN TREATED
[00:35:55] FAIRLY SEPARATELY. SO I'M IN IT AND THE REST OF MY COMMENTS ARE GOING TO MOSTLY
[00:35:57] FOCUS ON PRIVACY, SINCE THAT'S HOW IT HAS BEEN DISCUSSED
[00:36:00] SEPARATELY FROM SECURITY. A LOT WAS DONE ON THE PRIVACY
[00:36:03] PROBLEM IN THE EARLY 1970S WITH MULTIPLE PIECES OF LEGISLATION
[00:36:06] PASSED, INCLUDING THE LANDMARK 1974 PRIVACY ACT. BUT SOME THINGS WERE VERY
[00:36:11] EXPLICITLY NOT DONE. SO, FOR EXAMPLE, IN 1977, A
[00:36:14] FEDERAL COMMISSION ON PRIVACY
[00:36:16] ISSUED A MASSIVE REPORT, 654
[00:36:19] PAGES, DETAILING, QUOTE, AN OVERWHELMING IMBALANCE IN THE
[00:36:22] RECORD KEEPING RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN AN INDIVIDUAL AND AN
[00:36:25] ORGANIZATION, MEANING THAT ORGANIZATIONS HAD ALL THE POWER.
[00:36:28] THEY MADE MANY RECOMMENDATIONS. THEY INCLUDED THAT THE US CREATE
[00:36:32] A NEW FEDERAL PRIVACY BOARD TO ISSUE GUIDELINES ON HOW TO
[00:36:35] PROTECT INDIVIDUAL PRIVACY BECAUSE THEY ANTICIPATED
[00:36:39] TECHNOLOGIES WERE GOING TO CHANGE AND WE NEEDED TO THINK
[00:36:41] ABOUT HOW PRIVACY PROTECTIONS SHOULD ADAPT TO NEW
[00:36:44] TECHNOLOGICAL CHANGES. NOW, THIS PRIVACY BOARD WAS NOT CREATED.
[00:36:48] IN FACT, MOST OF THE COMMISSION'S RECOMMENDATIONS
[00:36:51] WERE NOT IMPLEMENTED. AND AS A RESULT, BY THE EARLY
[00:36:54] 1980S, PRIVACY LEGISLATION HAD, IN THE WORDS OF ONE HISTORIAN,
[00:36:58] QUOTE, FUNDAMENTALLY FAILED TO PROTECT THE PRIVACY INTERESTS OF
[00:37:01] AMERICAN CITIZENS AND, QUOTE. HE ALSO NOTED THAT THE US
[00:37:05] SITUATION WAS VERY DIFFERENT THAN THAT OF EUROPE, WHERE PRIVACY PROTECTION AGENCIES WERE
[00:37:09] CREATED. SOME OF THOSE SAME AGENCIES ARE
[00:37:11] TODAY PUSHING BACK ON ABUSES OF PRIVACY BY AI FIRMS, BUT
[00:37:15] REPEATED EFFORTS TO DEVELOP BETTER PRIVACY PROTECTIONS ARE
[00:37:18] PROPOSALS THAT WE SHOULD HAVE SOME KIND OF A BODY THAT WOULD
[00:37:22] ACTUALLY HAVE A VESTED INTEREST IN PUSHING FOR INDIVIDUAL
[00:37:26] PRIVACY PROTECTIONS. THOSE WERE NOT ACCEPTED.
[00:37:28] SO THOSE POLICY CHOICES THAT
[00:37:30] HAVE SHAPED THE KINDS OF A.I. DEVELOPMENTS THAT BECAME
[00:37:33] POSSIBLE AND PROFITABLE. SO WE'VE HAD SEVERAL WAVES OF EXCITEMENT ABOUT EYE CATCHING,
[00:37:37] MENTIONED A FEW SINCE THE 1950S.
[00:37:40] THE CURRENT WAVE FOCUSES ON NEURAL NETWORKS OR MACHINE
[00:37:43] LEARNING AND WHAT MOST DISTINGUISHES IT IS ITS DEPENDANCE UPON VAST AMOUNTS OF
[00:37:47] DATA AND PROCESSING POWER.
[00:37:49] AND THE BASIC MODELS UNDERLYING MACHINE LEARNING TODAY WERE
[00:37:53] DEVELOPED DECADES AGO. BUT IT WAS THE GROWTH AND COMMERCIALIZATION OF THE INTERNET.
[00:37:56] THAT THING THAT WAS GETTING
[00:37:57] STARTED IN THE 1960S WITHOUT ANY CORRESPONDING PRIVACY
[00:38:02] PROTECTIONS THAT ALLOWED THESE MODELS TO BE APPLIED IN WAYS THAT SOMETIMES THREATEN PRIVACY
[00:38:06] AND SECURITY. SO FOR MORE THAN TWO DECADES, COMPANIES LIKE GOOGLE AND NETA
[00:38:10] WERE DEVELOPING MASSIVE DATABASES ON USER BEHAVIOR, WHICH THEY COULD THEN SELL TO
[00:38:14] ADVERTISING FIRMS. AND THESE COMPANIES WERE
[00:38:17] PARTICULARLY WELL POSITIONED TO DEVELOP AI BECAUSE THEY COULD
[00:38:20] USE THE DATA OF THEIR USERS TO TRAIN THEIR A.I. MODELS.
[00:38:24] BUT EVEN COMPANIES THAT DIDN'T HAVE THAT COULD JUST SCRAPE THE
[00:38:26] INTERNET AND USE THAT FOR NEW
[00:38:31] INNOVATIONS, SOME OF WHICH HAD SOME REAL PRIVACY IMPACTS AND
[00:38:35] ACTUALLY HAVE DONE HARM TO PEOPLE. AND I GIVE SOME EXAMPLES OF THAT.
[00:38:39] IF WE HAVE TIME IN THE Q&A, THE COMPANIES HAVE BEEN MORE
[00:38:42] RESTRAINED IN SOME NATIONS THAN OTHERS. SO, FOR EXAMPLE, LAST YEAR META
[00:38:46] NOTIFIED FACEBOOK AND INSTAGRAM USERS IN EUROPE THEY'D BE USING
[00:38:49] THEIR PUBLIC POSTS TO TRAIN BETTERS, MACHINE LEARNING ALGORITHM.
[00:38:53] LAMA IT GAVE EUROPEAN USERS AN OPT OUT OPTION.
[00:38:57] ALTHOUGH IT WAS HARD TO USE.
[00:38:59] BUT BUT IT DIDN'T EVEN WARN U.S.
[00:39:03] USERS AND IT DID NOT GIVE USERS IN THE UNITED STATES AN OPT OUT
[00:39:06] BECAUSE IT DIDN'T HAVE TO. OKAY.
[00:39:09] SO I'M JUST TO CLOSE, I'M GOING TO BRIEFLY TOUCH ON SECURITY AS
[00:39:12] TRADITIONALLY THAT SORT OF MORE NARROW CONCEPTION OF
[00:39:16] CONFIDENTIALITY, INTEGRITY, AVAILABILITY OF INFORMATION SYSTEMS.
[00:39:18] SO HOW AM I, I IMPACT SECURITY,
[00:39:22] CYBER SECURITY IN THAT MORE CONVENTIONAL, NARROW SENSE? THE FIRST THING TO NOTE IS THAT
[00:39:26] MACHINE LEARNING CAN BE USED FOR EITHER OFFENSE OR DEFENSE. IT CAN BE USED TO GENERATE NEW VIRUSES.
[00:39:30] ALSO TO FIND AND EXPLOIT NEW VULNERABILITIES IN SOFTWARE.
[00:39:33] IT CAN ALSO BE USED TO DEFEND AGAINST THE SAME THINGS.
[00:39:37] AND WHAT MAKES IT MOST EFFECTIVE IS, OF COURSE, THE WAY THAT IT'S USED.
[00:39:40] THE ORGANIZATION, THE SKILLS OF THE ATTACKER, THE DEFENDER.
[00:39:43] BUT IT'S ALSO TRUE THAT MACHINE
[00:39:46] LEARNING ENABLES NEW KINDS OF CYBER ATTACKS AND IN FACT,
[00:39:49] DECEPTION SEEMS TO BE ONE OF THE MOST EFFECTIVE USES OF AI.
[00:39:54] SO, FOR EXAMPLE, DEEPFAKES OF ELON MUSK APPEAR TO BE ONE
[00:39:56] PARTICULARLY POPULAR WAY FOR CRIMINALS TO SCAM PEOPLE.
[00:40:00] ONE HEALTH CARE WORKER REPORT REPEATEDLY SAW ADS ON TIK TOK
[00:40:04] AND FACEBOOK SHOWING ELON MUSK PROMOTING AN INVESTMENT OPPORTUNITY.
[00:40:07] AND SHE LAUGHED ABOUT $10,000 IN
[00:40:10] THAT SCAM, WHICH WAS, OF COURSE, A DEEPFAKE OF MUSK.
[00:40:14] SO DECEPTION CAN BE USED NOT JUST TO SCAM INDIVIDUALS, BUT
[00:40:16] ENTIRE POLITIES. AND EVERY HIGH PROFILE POLICYMAKER TODAY HAS PROBABLY
[00:40:21] BEEN THE TARGET OF ONE OR MORE DEEP FAKES THAT ARE MEANT TO DENIGRATE THEM, MAKE THEM LOOK
[00:40:25] FOOLISH. AND OF COURSE, IT'S EASY TO GENERATE AND DISTRIBUTE THESE VIDEOS.
[00:40:28] SO ANY NATION THAT WISHES TO INFLUENCE U.S. ELECTIONS CAN USE
[00:40:32] A.I. TOOLS IN THEIR PROPAGANDA
[00:40:34] AND DISINFORMATION CAMPAIGNS FOR DEEP FAKES.
[00:40:38] CELEBRITIES ARE PROBABLY GOING TO BE UNAVOIDABLE BECAUSE THERE'S SO MUCH VIDEO OF THEM IN
[00:40:41] PUBLIC, BUT IT'S PRETTY EASY FOR MACHINE LEARNING TOOLS TO MIMIC.
[00:40:45] BUT EVERYDAY CITIZENS COULD BE BETTER PROTECTED FROM THOSE
[00:40:48] KINDS OF TOOLS THAT SPIN OUT DEEPFAKE -- OR OTHER FORMS OF
[00:40:53] HARASSMENT. AND MOST OF THOSE PRIVACY PROTECTIONS COULD HAVE BEEN PUT IN PLACE A LONG TIME AGO.
[00:40:57] BUT AT LEAST IN THE UNITED STATES, POLICYMAKERS HAVE LARGELY CHOSEN NOT TO.
[00:41:00] SO I JUST WANT TO CONCLUDE BY NOTING THAT WE OFTEN SORT OF
[00:41:04] THINK ABOUT WHAT'S THE IMPACT OF AI ON PRIVACY AND SECURITY.
[00:41:07] WE COULD ALSO THINK ABOUT THE
[00:41:09] WAYS THAT OUR POLICIES ON PRIVACY AND SECURITY HAVE SHAPED
[00:41:12] THE EVOLUTION OF AI SO THAT IT'S NOT A MATTER OF JUST THE IS
[00:41:17] INEVITABLY MOVING ALONG. AND THEN WE HAVE TO SOMEHOW FIGURE OUT HOW TO REIN IT IN OR
[00:41:21] RESPOND. THANK YOU. I'M GOING TO PASS IT OFF.
[00:41:32] I DID DRINK SOME WATER. YEAH. OTHERWISE I'LL BE UNABLE TO
[00:41:36] SPEAK MIDWAY THROUGH. OKAY. ALL RIGHT.
[00:41:40] MIGHT SOME OF THIS GIVE UP THIS
[00:41:43] FACADE OF WHATEVER THAT'S ABOUT? OKAY. ALL RIGHT. GRACE.
[00:41:46] THE TALL PERSON. YEAH. LAST YEAR. WE ARE.
[00:41:50] OKAY, SO LET ME FIRST START OFF
[00:41:53] BY SAYING HOW GRATEFUL I AM THAT I AM ABLE TO PARTICIPATE AT ALL.
[00:41:56] I REALLY ADMIRE ALL OF THESE SCHOLARS, AND IT'S A DELIGHT TO BE ALONGSIDE THEM.
[00:42:00] SPEAKING WITH YOU TODAY, I'M GOING TO ZOOM OUT AND MAYBE TALK
[00:42:04] AT A HIGHER LEVEL. I'M PARTICULARLY INTERESTED IN
[00:42:08] HOW THE STORIES WE TELL ABOUT THE HISTORY OF AI SHAPE OUR
[00:42:11] CONCEPTIONS OF POSSIBLE RIGHT,
[00:42:13] AND NOT JUST WHAT WE THINK, WHAT
[00:42:15] OUR OPPORTUNITIES ARE, BUT WHAT
[00:42:18] OUR THREATS MIGHT BE, WHAT WE NEED TO BE RESPONDING TO. RIGHT?
[00:42:23] SO YOU'VE SEEN ALREADY LOTS OF
[00:42:27] EXAMPLES OF WHERE NEW TECHNOLOGIES DON'T JUST
[00:42:33] CONSTRAIN OR SERVE AS A NEW TECHNOLOGY TO PRODUCE NEW
[00:42:35] THREATS, NEW THINGS WE NEED TO RESPOND TO. RIGHT?
[00:42:38] SO IF I CAN FAIRLY TAKE PHOTOGRAPHS AND PUBLISH THOSE PHOTOGRAPHS OF YOU IN A
[00:42:42] NEWSPAPER, SUDDENLY YOUR NOTION OF PRIVACY CHANGES, RIGHT?
[00:42:46] IT CEASES TO BE JUST ABOUT PHYSICAL SPACE. IT BECOMES ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE,
[00:42:50] RIGHT? YOU SEE IT AGAIN IN TELEPHONES, RIGHT? CHALLENGING CONCEPTIONS OF
[00:42:54] PRIVACY. YOU SEE IT AGAIN IN LARGE DATABASES. YOU SEE IT AGAIN IN ACTUALLY A
[00:42:57] HISTORY OF EDUCATION THAT OVER AND OVER AGAIN, NEW TECHNOLOGIES
[00:43:03] POSE NEW KINDS OF THREAT. SO THEY CHANGE WHAT IT MEANS TO
[00:43:05] HAVE PRIVACY. RIGHT.
[00:43:10] OKAY. LET ME SAY THIS.
[00:43:14] I THINK THAT MACHINE LEARNING AS
[00:43:15] A NEW KIND OF TECHNOLOGY SERVES
[00:43:19] AS A WAY OF BINDING IDEAS AND
[00:43:21] NATIONAL SECURITY AND PRIVACY
[00:43:23] TOGETHER, WHERE BEFORE YOU MIGHT HAVE CONSIDERED THEM IN SEPARATE SPHERES, RIGHT?
[00:43:27] IT SORT OF AS YOU WERE DISCUSSING NOW SUDDENLY YOU
[00:43:30] UNDERSTAND THEM AS THINGS THAT
[00:43:31] ARE IN TRACTABILITY RELATED, RIGHT?
[00:43:35] AND I'LL TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT AT THE END ABOUT EXACTLY WHY THAT IS, WHY I THINK THAT'S
[00:43:39] THE CASE. BUT IN ORDER TO SORT OF
[00:43:44] UNDERSTAND HOW THAT HAPPENED HISTORICALLY, LIKE HOW WE CAME TO THINK OF NATIONAL SECURITY
[00:43:47] AND PRIVACY AS FUNDAMENTALLY INTERWOVEN IN THIS PARTICULAR
[00:43:51] SORT OF WAY IN THE PRESENT MOMENT, WE NEED TO LOOK AT HOW
[00:43:53] WE'RE TELLING THESE HISTORIES OF I.
[00:43:57] SO I WANT TO DO TWO THINGS. I WANT TO TALK ABOUT SORT OF HOW
[00:44:01] HISTORY, THE WAY I TALKED ABOUT PRIOR TO THE 20 TENS.
[00:44:04] AND THEN I WANT TO TALK ABOUT
[00:44:06] HOW THAT CHANGED AFTERWARDS.
[00:44:08] SO FIRST OF ALL, WHEN I CAME ON
[00:44:11] THE SCENE, I DON'T KNOW, IN 2013, I WAS USING BOOKS THAT
[00:44:14] WERE WRITTEN IN THE 1980S AND THE HISTORY OF I HADN'T CHANGED
[00:44:18] THAT MUCH UP UNTIL THAT POINT IN HISTORY.
[00:44:20] I WAS SOMETHING LIKE THIS.
[00:44:22] IF YOU'RE DOING A.I. IN THE SECOND HALF OF THE 20TH CENTURY,
[00:44:26] BEGINNING OF THE 21ST CENTURY, WHAT YOU'RE DOING IS
[00:44:29] MATHEMATICAL PROOF PROVING YOU'RE DOING A GAME, PLAYING
[00:44:32] LIKE CHESS. WHAT THAT MEANS IS YOU'RE
[00:44:35] PLAYING, YOU'RE DOING PROBLEMS FROM WHICH THERE'S WELL-DEFINED
[00:44:39] RULES AND WELL-DEFINED ANSWERS.
[00:44:42] SO THERE'S NO QUESTION WHEN YOU ARRIVE AT A CORRECT ANSWER, YOU
[00:44:46] KNOW WHAT IT IS. YOU KNOW, FROM THE BEGINNING WHAT THE CORRECT ANSWER IS AND
[00:44:49] WHAT THE MACHINE HELPS YOU DO IS ARRIVE AT THAT SOLUTION.
[00:44:52] WHETHER YOU'RE TRYING TO PROVE A MATH PROBLEM OR TRYING TO WIN A GAME OF CHESS.
[00:44:56] OKAY, THESE SORTS OF STORIES
[00:44:58] HAVE CENTER MADE, LEARNING AS A
[00:45:01] KIND OF OPTIMIZING.
[00:45:03] AND SO HUMANS FIGURE OUT WHAT THE OPTIONS ARE AND YOU GET THE MACHINE JUST TO OPTIMIZE.
[00:45:07] BUT HUMANS ARE GOOD AT DECIDING WHAT POSSIBILITIES SHOULD BE
[00:45:11] CONSIDERED. SO LET HUMANS DO THAT JOB. LET MACHINES OPTIMIZE, RIGHT?
[00:45:15] SO WE KNOW GOOD STRATEGIES WHEN WE PLAY CHESS.
[00:45:19] BUT HUMANS BUT MACHINES CAN
[00:45:22] MAYBE FIND NEW STRATEGIES BASED
[00:45:24] ON THE SORT OF VALUES AND IDEAS THAT WE HAVE. OKAY.
[00:45:28] THE PROBLEM THAT THIS NARRATIVE
[00:45:30] OF I HAS LEARNED HAS CREATED IS
[00:45:34] THAT IT'S REALLY CENTERED ON
[00:45:36] JUST A FEW GROUPS OF A.I. RESEARCHERS AT LIKE AT MIT, AT
[00:45:42] STANFORD, AT CARNEGIE MELLON. YOU KNOW, THE FIRST CONFERENCE,
[00:45:45] YOU KNOW, DARTMOUTH, RIGHT, IN 1956, ALWAYS GETS TALKED ABOUT
[00:45:48] AD NAUSEUM, EVEN THOUGH IT WASN'T EVEN AN ACTUAL CONFERENCE. PEOPLE SHOWED UP THROUGHOUT THE
[00:45:52] SUMMER AT DIFFERENT TIMES. NO ONE WAS EVER THERE AT THE SAME TIME, ALL TOGETHER.
[00:45:56] SO IT'S JUST EVEN BIZARRE THAT WE STILL TALK ABOUT IT THAT WAY.
[00:45:59] BUT IT'S REALLY TO REINFORCE
[00:46:01] THIS MODEL OF SCIENCE WHERE IF YOU WANT TO GET SOMETHING DONE,
[00:46:05] YOU SUPERCHARGE A FEW ELITE
[00:46:08] GROUPS WITH TONS OF MONEY. YOU DUMP MONEY ON THOSE GROUPS,
[00:46:10] AND THAT WILL THAT WILL PROGRESS YOUR SCIENCE RIGHT?
[00:46:14] THIS HAS GIVEN RISE TO A WHOLE BUNCH OF MYTHS.
[00:46:16] IF YOU BELIEVE THIS IS THE CORRECT STORY OF THE HISTORY OF
[00:46:20] A.I., THEN YOU REALLY FOCUS ON IN THE 1980S AND 1990S AND A
[00:46:23] SUDDEN UPHEAVAL. OH MY GOSH, NEURAL NETWORKS ARE
[00:46:27] SUDDENLY GREAT AT DOING THINGS THEY WEREN'T BEFORE, BUT WITH THE RISE OF GPUS SUDDENLY NOW
[00:46:32] THEY CAN ACCOMPLISH ALL THESE TASKS THAT THEY CAN NEVER DO BEFORE. AND THE PROBLEM WITH THIS
[00:46:35] NARRATIVE IN PART IS IT ASSUMES THAT EVERYONE WAS WORKING ON THE
[00:46:39] SAME PROBLEMS AND EVERYONE AGREED WHAT THOSE PROBLEMS WERE.
[00:46:43] AND THAT IS JUST HISTORICALLY INACCURATE. RIGHT?
[00:46:46] IN FACT, THERE WAS A WILD VARIETY OF BELIEFS ABOUT WHAT
[00:46:50] PROBLEMS WERE VALUABLE AND WHAT WERE THE PAYOFFS OF THOSE
[00:46:53] PROBLEMS, EVEN HOW TO SOLVE THOSE PROBLEMS.
[00:46:56] SO A WILD SET OF DIFFERENT IDEAS
[00:47:00] ABOUT WHAT WAS WORTH WORKING ON, RIGHT. AND THAT GETS COMPLETE LOST IN
[00:47:03] OUR SORT OF NARRATIVES ABOUT THE
[00:47:05] RISE OF A.I. AND WHAT'S IMPORTANT AND IT GETS LOST.
[00:47:09] THEN WHEN WE TALK ABOUT HOW TO
[00:47:10] FUND OR OR DEVELOP AI NOW,
[00:47:15] RIGHT? YOU SEE THESE MODELS ABOUT THE
[00:47:17] HISTORY OF AI BEING THE RESULT
[00:47:21] OF A FEW ELITE GROUPS REALLY PLAYS INTO A NOTION THAT A
[00:47:25] PARTICULAR SET OF COMPANIES OR A PARTICULAR SET OF RESEARCH GROUPS ARE THE ONLY PEOPLE THAT
[00:47:29] CAN MAKE THIS WORK RIGHT?
[00:47:31] SO CONTRAST THIS THEN TO A MAJOR
[00:47:34] SHIFT IN THE HISTORIES OF AI AND THE 20 TENS WHERE PEOPLE WERE
[00:47:39] TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHERE DID MACHINE LEARNING COME FROM?
[00:47:41] BECAUSE IN THESE HISTORIES OF AI, MACHINE LEARNING IS ALWAYS
[00:47:45] DERIDED AND NOT REALLY SEEN AS SOMETHING THAT VALUABLE.
[00:47:47] AND ALSO IN THESE HISTORIES OF AI, MACHINE LEARNING IS OFTEN
[00:47:51] NARROW DOWN TO JUST A FEW THINGS. MAYBE JUST NEURAL NETWORKS AND NOTHING ELSE.
[00:47:55] BUT IN FACT, MACHINE LEARNING IS EXPANSIVE. THERE'S MANY DIFFERENT KINDS OF
[00:47:58] MACHINE LEARNING. THERE'S DECISION TREES, THERE'S
[00:48:01] MANY OTHER WAYS OF APPROACHING MACHINE LEARNING THAT HAVE
[00:48:04] NOTHING TO DO WITH NEURAL NETWORKS AND KNOWING THIS
[00:48:08] DIVERSITY OF DIFFERENT APPROACHES IS REALLY IMPORTANT. YOU SEE IT IN PATTERN
[00:48:12] RECOGNITION, FOR INSTANCE. YOU SEE IT IN ELECTRICAL ENGINEERING, YOU SEE IT IN
[00:48:16] STATISTIC X, YOU SEE IT IN A
[00:48:19] VERY CITY OF PLACES THAT ARE NOT CALLING THEMSELVES A.I.
[00:48:23] RESEARCHERS, RIGHT? THESE ARE NOT IDENTIFY AI RESEARCHERS.
[00:48:26] AND YET THESE TECHNIQUES ARE SORT OF PROVIDING THEY'RE SORT
[00:48:30] OF THE FOUNDATION OF WHAT WE WOULD CALL A.I. TODAY. RIGHT.
[00:48:34] AND SO HISTORIANS IN 2010 SAID, WHERE DO THESE TECHNIQUES COME FROM?
[00:48:38] HOW DID THEY SUDDENLY COME TO BE CALLED A.I. WHEN FOR SO LONG
[00:48:42] THEY WERE CAST OUT AND SAID, THIS IS AN AI, THIS IS EVEN WORTH WORKING ON.
[00:48:46] THESE KINDS OF PROBLEMS FOCUSED
[00:48:46] ON THINGS LIKE GENERATING NEW
[00:48:51] HYPOTHESES, RIGHT? THEY FOCUSED ON PROBLEMS IN
[00:48:53] WHICH YOU DID NOT KNOW THE RULES AND YOU DID NOT KNOW THE CORRECT ANSWERS.
[00:48:57] AND IN FACT, YOU DIDN'T EVEN KNOW THE SYSTEM.
[00:49:00] YOU WERE RADICALLY DUMB. YOU KNEW THAT YOU'RE YOU'RE SORT OF INFORMATION WAS SUPER
[00:49:04] LIMITED. YOU KNOW, THAT YOU DIDN'T HAVE ALL THE INFORMATION YOU NEEDED
[00:49:08] AND YOU STILL HAD TO MAKE A DECISION. SO THESE TECHNOLOGIES OF
[00:49:10] DECISION MAKING EXPLICITLY, RIGHT.
[00:49:12] AND SO HOW DO YOU MAKE DECISIONS
[00:49:14] UNDER RADICAL UNCERTAINTY? THESE WERE THE KINDS OF PROBLEMS
[00:49:17] THAT MACHINE LEARNING RESEARCHERS AND PATTERN RECOGNITION RESEARCHERS REALLY FOCUSED ON.
[00:49:23] AND DEVELOPED QUITE INDEPENDENTLY FROM ME.
[00:49:25] I UP UNTIL, YOU KNOW, THE 1970S,
[00:49:28] 1980S, WHEN WHEN I SORT OF REMADE ITSELF. OKAY.
[00:49:34] SO I WANT TO CONCLUDE HERE THEN JUST BY SAYING HOW DO THESE NEW
[00:49:38] HISTORIES GIVE US SOME INSIGHT INTO QUESTIONS OF PRIVACY AND
[00:49:41] QUESTIONS OF NATIONAL SECURITY TODAY?
[00:49:44] WELL, FIRST OF ALL, WE SHOULD
[00:49:47] RECOGNIZE THAT MACHINE LEARNING
[00:49:49] HAS MADE IT SO THAT RELEVANT
[00:49:52] INFORMATION IS ANY INFORMATION THAT CAN BE CAPTURED ABOUT YOU,
[00:49:55] THAT CAN BE CORRELATED WITH SOMETHING THAT'S A RADICALLY
[00:49:58] DIFFERENT UNDERSTANDING OF PRIVACY THAN THAN CONCEPTIONS OF
[00:50:02] PRIVACY BEFORE. IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT INFORMATION I HAVE, AS LONG AS I
[00:50:06] HAVE ENOUGH PEOPLE TOGETHER AND
[00:50:09] ENOUGH DATA ABOUT THOSE PEOPLE, I CAN START TO MAKE
[00:50:13] CLASSIFICATION OF THOSE PEOPLE. ARE THOSE THE RIGHT CLASSIFICATIONS? ARE THEY MEANINGFUL? WHO CARES?
[00:50:17] THEY ALLOW ME TO MAKE PREDICTIONS.
[00:50:19] ARE THOSE PREDICTIONS RIGHT? WHO KNOWS?
[00:50:22] OUTSIDE OF THE INFRASTRUCTURE, IT'S VERY THE INFRASTRUCTURE
[00:50:25] ITSELF MAKES IT POSSIBLE TO SORT OF JUDGE WHETHER THESE PREDICTIONS ARE CORRECT OR NOT.
[00:50:30] RIGHT. SO THIS IS RADICALLY DIFFERENT.
[00:50:32] WHO HAS A LOT OF DATA WILL USUALLY LARGE COMPANIES. RIGHT. AND SO THIS IS WHERE ISSUES OF
[00:50:36] ANTITRUST MIGHT ACTUALLY BEGIN TO PLAY A ROLE IN PRIVACY AND
[00:50:40] KIND OF A SURPRISING WAY BECAUSE YOU WOULDN'T NECESSARILY REALLY THINK ANTITRUST WOULD PLAY A ROLE IN PRIVACY.
[00:50:45] WELL, HERE IT DOES. OKAY. OKAY. THE SECOND THING I WANT TO SAY
[00:50:48] ABOUT NATIONAL SECURITY, THEN, IF WE BELIEVE THIS STORY OF
[00:50:52] FUNDING A FEW GROUPS WITH BLANK
[00:50:54] CHECKS IS THE WAY TO GO, THEN WE
[00:50:56] WILL SORT OF CONSTRUCT OUR SCIENCE AND CONSTRUCT OUR
[00:51:00] FUNDING MODELS IN A VERY
[00:51:02] DIFFERENT WAY THAN WHAT SEEMS TO
[00:51:05] HAVE WORKED FOR MACHINE LEARNING, RIGHT? THE DEVELOPED MACHINE LEARNING
[00:51:07] ACTUALLY INVOLVED A WHOLE BUNCH OF DIFFERENT GROUPS TRYING A WHOLE BUNCH OF DIFFERENT THINGS THAT DID NOT DISAGREE WITH EACH
[00:51:11] OTHER. AND IT WAS ACTUALLY THE RANGE OF
[00:51:15] APPROACHES AND THE LACK OF AGREEMENT ABOUT WHAT THE RIGHT SOLUTION OR THE RIGHT QUESTION
[00:51:19] EVEN WAS THAT ALLOWED DIFFERENT KINDS OF MACHINE LEARNING
[00:51:22] APPROACHES TO BE SO SUCCESSFUL AS STRATEGIES FOR TRYING TO MAKE
[00:51:27] PREDICTIONS, MAKE DECISIONS ABOUT THE WORLD RIGHT? SO IF WE PAY ATTENTION TO THIS
[00:51:31] NEWER SET OF HISTORIES, TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHERE MACHINE
[00:51:34] LEARNING CAME FROM, HOW AND WHY
[00:51:37] IT CAME TO BE THINKABLE, THEN
[00:51:39] THAT GIVES US A REALLY DIFFERENT
[00:51:41] POSITION WITH WHICH TO JUDGE OUR
[00:51:43] FUNDING MODELS FOR SCIENCE AND I
[00:51:47] THINK I'LL STOP RIGHT THERE.
[00:51:48] THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME.
[00:51:58] GREAT. THANK YOU SO MUCH. AND SEE THIS IS TOO TALL FOR ME NOW.
[00:52:02] THANK YOU SO MUCH TO ALL OF OUR
[00:52:06] PANELISTS. AS A REMINDER, PLEASE WRITE DOWN YOUR QUESTIONS AND NO CARDS.
[00:52:09] YOU CAN HAND IT TO PENN OR BEN
[00:52:13] AND I WILL COMPILE THEM AND MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE A VERY ROBUST
[00:52:17] Q&A. I WOULD LIKE TO START BY POSING
[00:52:20] A QUESTION TO OUR PANELISTS THAT IS STRAIGHT FROM THE CURRENT
[00:52:24] HEADLINES, AND THAT IS ABOUT THE
[00:52:28] NEGOTIATIONS THAT ARE CURRENTLY HAPPENING BETWEEN ANTHROPIC AND
[00:52:31] SECRETARY HEGSETH AND THAT THAT
[00:52:33] HAS RAISED ATTENTION TO THE
[00:52:35] DEFENSE PRODUCTION ACT, WHICH IS ACTUALLY A PIECE OF COLD WAR
[00:52:39] LEGISLATION. AND I'M WONDERING IF OUR
[00:52:41] PANELISTS CAN KIND OF KIND OF THINK MORE BROADLY ABOUT THIS,
[00:52:45] THE HISTORICAL RELATIONSHIPS BETWEEN THE DEPARTMENT OF
[00:52:49] DEFENSE, THE NATIONAL SECURITY STATE AND INFORMATION
[00:52:52] INDUSTRIES, AND HOW THAT CAN
[00:52:54] ILLUMINATE BOTH TENSIONS BETWEEN THE TWO ENTITIES AND POINTS OF
[00:52:59] COOPERATION. ANYONE CAN START.
[00:53:02] I'LL JUST JUMP IN BRIEFLY. SO YEAH, SO THE 1950 NATIONAL,
[00:53:06] THE PRODUCTION ACT WAS PASSED AT
[00:53:09] THE TIME OF THE KOREAN WAR,
[00:53:11] RIGHT WHEN THERE WAS A SENSE OF NATIONAL EMERGENCY AND THERE WAS
[00:53:14] A NEED TO PROVIDE SPECIAL INCENTIVES FOR THE PRIVATE
[00:53:18] SECTOR TO HELP THE U.S.
[00:53:20] GOVERNMENT FIGHT THAT WAR.
[00:53:22] AND IT'S BEEN INVOKED A LOT OF TIMES SINCE THEN IN DIFFERENT
[00:53:26] CONTEXTS. THAT WAS INVOKED DURING COVID, FOR EXAMPLE. RIGHT.
[00:53:29] TO ENCOURAGE COMPANIES TO REALLY
[00:53:32] HELP STOP A PANDEMIC.
[00:53:34] I THINK MOST PEOPLE WOULD AGREE THAT THE USE IN THE CURRENT
[00:53:38] CONTEXT IS SOMEWHAT UNUSUAL. AND THERE'S ALWAYS THE QUESTION
[00:53:41] OF WHAT THE EMERGENCY IS, BUT ALSO THE KIND OF THING THAT IS
[00:53:45] BEING ASKED OF ANTHROPIC, IF
[00:53:47] MAYBE A LITTLE DIFFERENT THAN, SAY, ASKING A COMPANY TO PRODUCE
[00:53:50] A BUNCH MORE BOMBS. BECAUSE WHAT ANTHROPIC IS SAYING
[00:53:53] IS WE'RE NOT SURE HOW THIS WORKS.
[00:53:55] WE ACTUALLY DON'T KNOW THAT YOU
[00:53:58] CAN TRUST ACTUALLY, WE'RE PRETTY
[00:54:00] SURE YOU CAN'T ENTIRELY TRUST
[00:54:02] THE OUTPUTS IN ANY OBVIOUS WAY.
[00:54:06] WE STILL NEED TO FIGURE THIS OUT
[00:54:08] AND WE DON'T WANT TO JUST SAY HERE, HAVE AT IT.
[00:54:11] DO WHAT YOU WANT WITH IT.
[00:54:13] AND SO I THINK THAT'S ONE OF THE
[00:54:15] SOURCES OF TENSION HERE, IS THAT IT'S NOT CLEAR THAT WHETHER THE
[00:54:19] EMERGENCY IS THE SAME AS IT HAS BEEN HISTORICALLY, AND ALSO
[00:54:23] WHETHER THE PRODUCT THAT IS BEING ASKED FOR IS THE SAME.
[00:54:28] SO IT'S I THINK THAT'S GOING TO BE ONE OF THE MAJOR ISSUES THAT'S GOING TO HAVE TO GET
[00:54:31] HASHED OUT.
[00:54:33] ANY OTHER THAT I COULD SAY, I
[00:54:36] THINK, YOU KNOW, THE HISTORY OF
[00:54:40] THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN
[00:54:42] COMMERCIAL AND GOVERNMENT. WELL, PUBLIC AND PRIVATE
[00:54:47] INFORMATION USE IS GOES BACK A,
[00:54:50] YOU KNOW, CENTURIES.
[00:54:52] AND THERE ARE THEY RAISE REALLY
[00:54:55] INTERESTING QUESTIONS BECAUSE I THINK MOST AMERICAN CITIZENS
[00:54:59] AREN'T AWARE OF THE POROUSNESS BETWEEN INFORMATION PUBLIC AND
[00:55:03] PRIVATE INFORMATION AGGREGATION AND USE.
[00:55:05] I MENTIONED JUST BRIEFLY IN MY
[00:55:11] COMMENTS, YOU KNOW, THE RISE OF
[00:55:13] THINGS LIKE THE TELEGRAPH
[00:55:15] SYSTEM, WHICH ALLOWED SUDDENLY THE GOVERNMENT TO COLLECT
[00:55:20] INFORMATION OR TO OBTAIN INFORMATION THAT WAS COLLECTED
[00:55:22] BY PRIVATE OPERATORS. AND THIS PATTERN HAS CONTINUED
[00:55:28] THROUGHOUT, YOU KNOW, THE DECADES SINCE.
[00:55:32] I'M AN OFTEN PRIVATE COMPANIES
[00:55:36] HAVE HAD BETTER ACCESS TO DATA
[00:55:38] THAN THE USUAL FEAR IN THE UNITED STATES HAS BEEN.
[00:55:42] THE GOVERNMENT COLLECTING AND HOUSING AND WAREHOUSING INFORMATION ABOUT THEM.
[00:55:46] BUT IT'S ACTUALLY TYPICALLY COMMERCIAL ENTITIES HAVE BEEN
[00:55:50] BETTER AT THIS OR AHEAD OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT ON THIS.
[00:55:53] I'M REMEMBERING THAT IN THE 19TH CENTURY, FOR INSTANCE, THE OR
[00:55:56] LATE 19TH CENTURY CREDIT AGENCIES HAD MUCH MORE OF A
[00:56:00] REACH INTO PEOPLE'S PRIVATE LIVES THAN THEY DID THEN.
[00:56:04] THEY SENT FBI AND SO FORTH.
[00:56:08] SO BUT I THINK SO I THINK THIS
[00:56:10] QUESTION OF THE POROUSNESS IS IN THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE
[00:56:15] GOVERNMENT, THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND PRIVATE INFORMATION BROKERS.
[00:56:19] AND SCRAPERS AND AGGREGATORS IS
[00:56:23] A REALLY IMPORTANT ONE FOR US TO GET STRAIGHT IN TERMS OF JUST
[00:56:27] HOW WE UNDERSTAND AND CONCEIVE
[00:56:29] OF THE POSSIBILITIES FOR BOTH
[00:56:31] OUR SECURITY AND OUR PRIVACY AND
[00:56:35] WELL, WE'LL CONTINUE TO COME UP AND I THINK THAT THE ANTHROPIC
[00:56:37] CASE IS A REALLY INTERESTING INSTANCE WHERE WE'RE SEEING THAT
[00:56:41] PLAY OUT AS A REAL ACTUAL STRUGGLE RATHER THAN A KIND OF
[00:56:44] BEHIND THE SCENES ONE, WHICH IS TYPICALLY BEEN THE CASE.
[00:56:48] I DON'T THINK MOST AMERICANS HAVE HAVE BEEN AS AWARE IN THE
[00:56:50] PAST OF THE KIND OF RELATIONSHIP
[00:56:54] BETWEEN THESE ENTITIES AS BEHIND THE SCENES TO SOLVE VARIOUS
[00:56:57] KINDS OF NATIONAL SECURITY PROBLEMS OR SO FORTH AS THEY'RE SEEING RIGHT NOW.
[00:57:02] EXCELLENT, GREAT. WE HAVE SOME EXCELLENT QUESTIONS.
[00:57:06] SO MOVING FORWARD, COULD YOU EXPLAIN THE CONDITIONS THAT
[00:57:09] CONTRIBUTED TO PREVIOUS AIR WINTERS AND WHAT MIGHT LOOK
[00:57:13] SIMILAR OR DIFFERENT TO THE
[00:57:15] CURRENT PERIOD OF AIR EXUBERANCE?
[00:57:18] SO WHAT REALLY GENERATES INVESTMENT IN OR PERHAPS
[00:57:22] RETRACTION FROM AN INVESTMENT IN
[00:57:23] NEW TECHNOLOGIES.
[00:57:27] YEAH, I'M I'M HAPPY I'M HAPPY TO
[00:57:29] SPEAK ABOUT AT LEAST ONE OF THE
[00:57:32] AIR WINTERS. SO WHEN I BEGAN MY TALK, I
[00:57:35] MENTIONED THE LOGIC THEORY MACHINE. THIS, YOU KNOW, THIS COMPUTER
[00:57:39] PROGRAM THAT MADE MATHEMATICAL PROOFS.
[00:57:41] SO THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF THIS
[00:57:44] SYMBOLIC A I IT'S VERY DIFFERENT
[00:57:46] FROM THE DATA DRIVEN A.I., WHICH
[00:57:48] IS UBIQUITOUS THESE DAYS.
[00:57:50] WHAT SYMBOLIC A.I. DOES IS THAT
[00:57:53] IT JUST, YOU KNOW, IT'S A A
[00:58:00] ENCODES A CERTAIN OPERATIONS FOR EXAMPLE, THE SOLUTION OF A
[00:58:03] MATHEMATICAL PROOF, RIGHT?
[00:58:04] THE ALGORITHM DOESN'T WORK WITH
[00:58:08] DATA, DOESN'T FIND REGULARITIES IN DATA.
[00:58:10] IT JUST IT JUST FOLLOWS THOSE
[00:58:14] THE STEPS THAT WERE ALREADY INSERTED INTO THE PROGRAM.
[00:58:18] AND SO, OKAY, SO THE LOGIC THEORY MACHINE ESTABLISHED THIS
[00:58:22] ENTIRE SYMBOLIC AI APPROACH,
[00:58:26] WHICH WAS DOMINANT, I THINK UNTIL THE 1990S.
[00:58:30] ROUGHLY SPEAKING.
[00:58:32] IT REALLY PEAKED IN THE 1980S WITH THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE
[00:58:36] EXPERT SYSTEMS. SO EXPERT SYSTEMS WERE DOMAIN
[00:58:41] SPECIFIC AI SYSTEMS THAT THEY
[00:58:41] WERE CREATED FOR MEDICAL
[00:58:47] DIAGNOSIS FOR AIRLINE COMPANIES,
[00:58:53] YOU KNOW, IN ORDER TO MAKE
[00:58:55] DECISIONS ABOUT THIS CELLS.
[00:58:57] AND SO ON.
[00:58:59] ACTUALLY A VERY GOOD EXAMPLE, I THINK WE, ALL OF YOU, IF YOU
[00:59:03] FILE TAXES IN THE UNITED STATES, USE AN EXPERT SYSTEM.
[00:59:06] IF YOU USE TEXT FILE SOFTWARE.
[00:59:12] SO THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF AN EXPERT SYSTEM.
[00:59:14] IT'S IT'S IN ENCODES IN THE FORM OF THE RULES.
[00:59:17] THE THE EXPERT'S REASONING.
[00:59:20] SO THE EXPERT SYSTEMS SAW THAT BOOM IN THE 1980S.
[00:59:23] IT TAKES QUIET A LOT OF TIME AND
[00:59:27] EFFORT TO DEVELOP AN EXPERT SYSTEM BECAUSE IN ORDER TO
[00:59:30] DEVELOP IT, YOU HAVE TO ACTUALLY
[00:59:32] SIT DOWN WITH A GROUP OF EXPERTS
[00:59:34] AND INTERVIEW THEM AND ASK THEM HOW THEY APPROACH A CERTAIN PROBLEM.
[00:59:38] HOW DID HOW DO THEY DECIDE IF
[00:59:40] YOU ARE EXEMPT FROM, YOU KNOW, A
[00:59:43] CERTAIN TAX CATEGORY, HOW WOULD
[00:59:45] YOU RECOGNIZE A CERTAIN NUMBER
[00:59:47] OF SYMBOLS AS A CERTAIN DISEASE AND SO ON?
[00:59:51] AND SO WHILE THEY WERE
[00:59:53] COMMERCIAL SUCCESSFUL, THEY THEY REQUIRED A LOT OF TIME AND A LOT
[00:59:57] OF RESOURCES.
[00:59:58] AND SO THAT CONTRIBUTED TO THE
[01:00:03] THE FIRST DAY I WINTER RIGHT THERE.
[01:00:05] THE DECLINE IN THE DEMAND IN THE
[01:00:07] EXPERT SYSTEM AND THE RISE IN URGENCY IN FINDING A DIFFERENT
[01:00:11] APPROACH WHICH IS A DATA DRIVEN APPROACH. YEAH.
[01:00:14] AND I JUST WANT TO ADD TO THAT. SO I WANT TO SAY, FIRST OF ALL,
[01:00:18] AIR WINTERS ARE PERSPECTIVE DEPENDENT.
[01:00:22] AND I CANNOT STRESS THIS ENOUGH AND IT SORT OF SPEAKS TO THE
[01:00:24] POINT I WAS MAKING EARLIER, THAT
[01:00:27] IF YOU ONLY LOOK AT A FEW ELITE
[01:00:29] GROUPS AND A FEW UNIVERSITIES
[01:00:33] FROM LIKE THE 1950S TO THE 1980S, THEY WERE FUNDED ALMOST
[01:00:36] ENTIRELY BY RPA AND A FEW OF THE PLACES BLANK CHECKS.
[01:00:40] AND SO WHEN SUDDENLY THAT MONEY WAS TAKEN AWAY, IT MUST HAVE
[01:00:44] REALLY FELT LIKE AN EARTHQUAKE AND THOSE THREE LABS. RIGHT.
[01:00:47] OR THE I'M BEING A LITTLE OVER THE TOP. BUT LIKE, YOU KNOW, IN THAT VERY
[01:00:51] SMALL GROUP OF RESEARCH RESEARCHERS. RIGHT. BUT IF YOU START TO LOOK AT
[01:00:55] OTHER PLACES WHERE MACHINE LEARNING TECHNIQUES ARE BEING DEVELOPED, FOR INSTANCE, AND
[01:00:57] PATTERN RECOGNITION, YOU WILL SEE THAT THERE ARE MANY, MANY
[01:01:02] COMPANIES, SMALL COMPANIES YOU
[01:01:04] DON'T HEAR ABOUT GETTING FUNDED BY THE DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE AND
[01:01:07] THEIR FUNDING NEVER STOPS. RIGHT? HOW DO YOU GET SPY SATELLITES?
[01:01:11] RECOGNIZE TANKS OR MISSILES IN SATELLITE IMAGES?
[01:01:14] THESE COMPANIES JUST CONTINUE TO GET PAID FOREVER.
[01:01:17] THERE'S NO WINTER, SO IT REALLY
[01:01:19] DEPENDS ON WHERE YOU'RE LOOKING.
[01:01:21] YOU CAN I CAN INVENT I WINTER'S LIKE MAGIC.
[01:01:24] I CAN MAKE THEM DISAPPEAR LIKE MAGIC.
[01:01:27] IT JUST DEPENDS WHERE I LOOK. SO I THINK THAT CHANGES THE QUESTION TO BE LIKE INSTEAD OF
[01:01:31] TALKING ABOUT WINTER IS, IS SORT OF LIKE INEVITABLE THING THAT WE
[01:01:36] HAVE TO BE AFRAID OF. WE CAN RATHER SAY, WHY ARE WE
[01:01:40] LOOKING AT THESE PARTICULAR GROUPS?
[01:01:43] WHY THESE RESEARCH COMMUNITIES AND NOT OTHERS?
[01:01:45] AND LIKE WHAT ARE THE STAKES OF LOOKING AT THOSE GROUPS RATHER
[01:01:48] THAN OTHER ONES? RIGHT? SO THAT'S THAT. SO I HAVE A LOT TO SAY ABOUT
[01:01:52] WINTERS AND HOW I THINK THAT'S THE WRONG WAY TO GO. BUT LIKE THAT GIVES YOU SOME
[01:01:55] INSIGHT INTO WHY WE MIGHT WANT TO QUESTION A WINTERS.
[01:01:58] IT'S LIKE A FRAMING NARRATIVE. MM HMM. EXCELLENT.
[01:02:02] WELL, LET'S SHIFT THE FOCUS A
[01:02:04] LITTLE BIT TO ADDRESS THIS QUESTION ABOUT THE HISTORICAL
[01:02:08] CONTEXT OF AI AND THE TECHNOLOGICAL IMPACT ON THE
[01:02:12] WORKFORCE. SO IF WE KIND OF SHIFT TO THESE QUESTIONS A LITTLE BIT MORE
[01:02:15] TOWARDS LABOR WORK, WHAT ROLE
[01:02:18] PERHAPS DO NEW TECHNOLOGIES OR THE PRESSURES THAT THEY MIGHT
[01:02:23] BRING TO QUESTIONS OF LABOR AND
[01:02:28] WORK. I CAN JUST JUMP IN HERE.
[01:02:31] SO, I MEAN, WHAT WE USUALLY SEE IN FRONT OF.
[01:02:34] THIS IS ALSO A VERY OLD CONCERN, RIGHT, THAT TECHNOLOGY IS GOING
[01:02:38] TO DISPLACE WORKERS.
[01:02:40] AND WHAT YOU USUALLY SEE IS THAT A FEW JOBS ARE REPLACED BY
[01:02:44] COMPUTERS, BUT MUCH MORE. WHAT HAPPENS IS WORK CHANGES AND
[01:02:48] WORK GETS REORGANIZED AND PEOPLE
[01:02:50] LEARN NEW SKILLS AND AND ARE
[01:02:53] ASKED TO DO THINGS DIFFERENTLY. AND SO WE'RE SEEING A LOT OF
[01:02:56] THAT HAPPENING RIGHT NOW. IT'S NOT REALLY CLEAR WHERE IT'S
[01:03:00] GOING TO SHAKE OUT. I DO THINK THAT SOME COMPANIES ARE VERY EXCITED ABOUT THE
[01:03:03] POSSIBLE POSSIBILITY OF DOWNSIZING AND THIS IS SOMETHING
[01:03:07] THAT IS OF GREAT CONCERN. I WILL SAY I'M AN EDUCATOR, RIGHT.
[01:03:11] AND SO MANY OF MY STUDENTS ARE
[01:03:13] DEPRESSED AND NOT SURE IF AND
[01:03:15] UNDERSTANDABLY, LIKE REALLY
[01:03:17] ANXIOUS ABOUT WHAT THE CAREER
[01:03:20] WORLD IS GOING TO LOOK LIKE, WHAT THE JOB MARKET'S GOING TO LOOK LIKE.
[01:03:24] AND AND WONDERING WHETHER
[01:03:26] THERE'S EVEN ANY POINT IN LEARNING STUFF ANYMORE BECAUSE, HEY, I CAN DO IT.
[01:03:30] ALL RIGHT. AND THE ANSWER IS NO. IT TOTALLY CANNOT DO IT ALL.
[01:03:34] YEAH, I THIS GREAT CONVERSATION
[01:03:37] WITH MY STUDENTS YESTERDAY WHERE I CAME UP WITH ONE PROMPT AND
[01:03:39] THEN I HAD A I COME OVER THE PROMPT AND I ASKED IF THEY COULD TELL THE DIFFERENCE AND THEY ALL
[01:03:43] COULD TELL THE DIFFERENCE.
[01:03:45] I COULD NOT GET ANY MORE CONTEXT, DID NOT HAVE THE
[01:03:48] BROADER CONTEXT, BUT COULDN'T
[01:03:50] THINK ABOUT THINGS IN DIFFERENT WAYS.
[01:03:53] IT DIDN'T HAVE THAT ABILITY TO BRING IN NEW INSIGHTS OR
[01:03:58] PERSPECTIVES OR CONNECT DIFFERENT PIECES OF INFORMATION THAT HAD NOT BEEN INCLUDED
[01:04:03] ORIGINALLY. IT JUST AVERAGES OUT WORDS, RIGHT?
[01:04:05] SO WHICH CAN BE VERY USEFUL SOMETIMES.
[01:04:08] AND ALSO IT MADE ERRORS, DEMONSTRABLE ERRORS, WHICH
[01:04:11] NOBODY CAUGHT UNTIL I POINTED IT OUT ANYWAY.
[01:04:15] SO SO, YOU KNOW, THE ONE THING
[01:04:18] TO REMEMBER IS DON'T LET
[01:04:20] YOURSELF BE REPLACED BY EITHER. IF YOU'RE A YOUNG PERSON, DON'T
[01:04:23] LET YOURSELF BE REPLACED BY A.I. THAT'S WHAT I TELL MY STUDENTS, BY REFUSING TO LEARN HOW TO DO
[01:04:27] ANYTHING THAT I CAN'T. IN OTHER WORDS, DON'T LET A.I.
[01:04:31] DO ALL YOUR HOMEWORK FOR YOU BECAUSE YOU'RE ACTUALLY MISSING OUT ON SOMETHING.
[01:04:35] I'VE RECOMMENDED THAT EVERYBODY HERE IS IN THAT KIND OF
[01:04:39] SITUATION. BUT SO, YEAH, I WORK IS GOING TO CHANGE.
[01:04:42] IT'S ALWAYS BEEN CHANGING IN RELATION TO TECHNOLOGY, THE WAY I DO MY JOB NOW IS VERY
[01:04:46] DIFFERENT THAN I DID IT 20 YEARS AGO.
[01:04:49] EVEN, AND IT DOESN'T NECESSARILY IT CERTAINLY DOESN'T MEAN THAT
[01:04:52] ALL THE JOBS ARE GOING AWAY OR THAT I CAN DO THE JOB THAT YOU DO NOW. IT CAN'T.
[01:04:55] ONLY YOU CAN DO THAT. MM HMM. CAN I JUST JUMP IN?
[01:04:59] I'LL ECHO A LITTLE BIT OF WHAT REBECCA SAID.
[01:05:02] AND I THINK ALL OF US WHO ARE CLASSROOM TEACHERS ARE THINKING
[01:05:06] ABOUT THIS IN A VERY SPECIFIC WAY WITH MANY OF OUR STUDENTS
[01:05:08] BECAUSE IT IS AN ANXIETY THAT'S THERE IN THE CLASSROOM.
[01:05:12] AND WHILE I THINK IT IS REALLY
[01:05:14] USEFUL TO THINK ABOUT HISTORICAL MIS PREDICTIONS ON THIS SCORE.
[01:05:18] SO THE IDEA THAT AUTOMATION FACTORY AUTOMATION WAS GOING TO
[01:05:22] GIVE US FOUR DAY WORKWEEKS AND A 20 HOUR WORKWEEKS AND THINGS
[01:05:25] LIKE THIS AND IMAGINE AND IMAGINE THE LEISURE SOCIETY IN
[01:05:29] THE EARLY 20TH CENTURY AND SO FORTH.
[01:05:31] I DO THINK IT WOULD BE I THINK
[01:05:35] IT BEHOOVES US TO THINK ABOUT WHAT MIGHT BE DIFFERENT ABOUT
[01:05:38] GENERATIVE AI AND WHAT IT IS ABLE TO DO, DISPLACING DIFFERENT
[01:05:43] KINDS OF WORKERS. PERHAPS THEN EARLIER
[01:05:46] TECHNOLOGIES DID AND TO THINK REALLY CAREFULLY ABOUT THE
[01:05:50] POSSIBILITY THAT THIS MAY BE A DIFFERENT KIND OF TRANSITION
[01:05:54] THAT WE'RE WE'RE UP FOR AND THAT
[01:05:56] MAYBE OUR PAST PREDICTIONS ARE NOT GOING TO SERVE US VERY WELL
[01:06:00] HERE. WE'RE READING IN ONE OF MY CLASSES RIGHT NOW, WE'RE READING
[01:06:04] CALLED SCIENCE, TECHNOLOGY AND
[01:06:06] VALUES OR READING THE CHECK PLAY FROM 1921.
[01:06:09] I THINK IT IS THAT INVENTED THE
[01:06:11] TERM ROBOT AND YOU KNOW, THE
[01:06:15] PREDICTIONS MADE THERE, YOU KNOW, SOUND REALLY ZANY IN SOME WAYS TO US.
[01:06:19] BUT BUT I DO THINK BUT I DO
[01:06:23] THINK WE'RE POSSIBLY IN FOR MORE
[01:06:25] TRANSITION THAN WE HAVE.
[01:06:29] YOU KNOW, THEN WE MAY BE PREPARED FOR AND AND THAT NO
[01:06:32] MATTER WHETHER WE ARE OR NOT, THAT WE NEED TO TAKE VERY
[01:06:36] SERIOUSLY THE CONCERNS THAT AND
[01:06:41] THINK MAYBE PROACTIVELY ABOUT HOW WE'RE PREPARING PEOPLE FOR A
[01:06:43] POSSIBLE TRANSITION IN THAT THE
[01:06:46] NATURE OF WORK.
[01:06:49] YEAH. SO I ALSO WANT YOU TO QUICKLY
[01:06:52] FOLLOW UP ON THIS BECAUSE SARAH
[01:06:56] JUST MENTIONED, YOU KNOW, HOW DO WE PREPARE PEOPLE FOR THIS
[01:07:00] TRANSITION AND FOR THE CHANGES
[01:07:01] THAT THE A.I. BRINGS TO THE, YOU
[01:07:04] KNOW, WORK AND LABOR?
[01:07:08] SO ONE THING THAT I SEE IN MY RESEARCH IS THAT WHENEVER NEW
[01:07:14] TECHNOLOGY EMERGES, THERE ARE
[01:07:16] PEOPLE START MAKING AN ARGUMENT
[01:07:19] THAT, OKAY, SO TO PREPARE PEOPLE
[01:07:21] TO CREATE THIS TECHNOLOGY AND,
[01:07:23] YOU KNOW, WORK WITH THIS TECHNOLOGY, WE NEED TO USE THIS
[01:07:27] TECHNOLOGY IN EDUCATION.
[01:07:28] SO WE NEED TO WE NEED TO CHANGE
[01:07:31] HOW WE TRAIN PEOPLE. WE EMPLOY THIS TECHNOLOGY TO
[01:07:34] TRAIN THEM, HOW TO FURTHER CREATE THIS TECHNOLOGY.
[01:07:38] LIKE, YOU KNOW, SPEAKING ABOUT
[01:07:39] EDUCATIONAL COMPUTING, THAT AGE WAS DISCUSSED.
[01:07:43] ONE OF THE IDEAS WAS THAT IT WOULD JUST TEACH BETTER
[01:07:46] SCIENTISTS AND ENGINEERS THAT
[01:07:48] ARE REQUIRED BY THE INFORMATION SOCIETIES, RIGHT?
[01:07:52] THE SOCIETY. IT IS WHERE COMPUTER TECHNOLOGY
[01:07:55] IS UBIQUITOUS, BUT, YOU KNOW, A
[01:07:57] HISTORICAL ANALYSIS DEMONSTRATES
[01:08:00] THAT THIS IS ACTUALLY PRETTY SHORT SIGHTED. IT'S RIGHT IF WE JUST CHANGE OUR
[01:08:06] EDUCATION AND ACCORDING TO THIS
[01:08:08] SHORT TERM FORECASTS ABOUT LABOR
[01:08:13] AND WORKFORCE, THEN ACTUALLY WE
[01:08:15] ARE LEADING OUR STUDENTS INTO A
[01:08:17] TRAP AND WE'RE PREPARING THEM PERHAPS FOR THE NEXT 5 OR 10 YEARS.
[01:08:23] BUT A LONG TERM WE PUT THEM IN A
[01:08:25] PRETTY DISADVANTAGED POSITION.
[01:08:29] WELL, WELL, THAT ACTUALLY LEADS
[01:08:31] TO A QUESTION FOR THE AUDIENCE
[01:08:35] THAT ONE OF THE AUDIENCE MEMBER
[01:08:37] RAISED, AND THAT IS HOW MANY OF
[01:08:39] YOU USE AI IN YOUR WORK TO WRITE
[01:08:41] MEMOS OR TO DO KEY PARTS OF YOUR
[01:08:46] WORK. AND DID YOU LEARN IT ON THE JOB
[01:08:49] OR IS IT SOMETHING THAT YOU
[01:08:52] LEARNED ON THE JOB OR SOMETHING THAT YOU LEARNED AT LIKE DURING
[01:08:57] YOUR STUDIES, DURING YOUR EDUCATION ON THE JOB, LEARNING IT?
[01:09:01] AND DO YOU THINK THAT WAS
[01:09:02] IMPLEMENTED INTO CURRICULUM AND
[01:09:08] I THINK IS I THINK ONE OF THE INTERESTING THINGS YOU CAN'T
[01:09:11] REALLY AVOID HOW PART OF YOU IF
[01:09:16] YOU GOOGLE OR AND I THINK THAT
[01:09:18] SOMETIMES PEOPLE THINK THEY HAVE TO GO OVER TO CHAT T OR CLOUD OR
[01:09:23] WHATEVER BUT IT'S ALREADY THERE.
[01:09:25] IT'S IN OUR MICROSOFT THREE. MM HMM.
[01:09:30] SO HOW AM I? IT'S A THAT'S A REALLY EXCELLENT
[01:09:32] POINT ABOUT THE UBIQUITOUS OF,
[01:09:35] OF AI IN EDUCATIONAL TOOLS.
[01:09:37] AND SO IF WE THINK HISTORIC
[01:09:40] ACTUALLY ABOUT THIS CONCEPT, HOW
[01:09:42] HAVE SOME OF THESE NEW TECHNOL OLOGIES THAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT,
[01:09:45] HOW HAVE THEY RESHAPED, YOU
[01:09:47] KNOW, PEDAGOGY AND EDUCATION?
[01:09:51] AND IS IT AS PERVASIVE AND QUICK
[01:09:53] IN TERMS OF THE SPREAD OF THAT?
[01:09:55] AND WHAT DOES THAT DO TO EDUCATIONAL PRACTICES
[01:10:00] HISTORICALLY.
[01:10:04] YOU KNOW, I THINK LOTS OF US
[01:10:07] PROBABLY HAVE SOME THOUGHTS ON THIS, BUT I'LL BEGIN BY SAYING,
[01:10:11] YOU KNOW, I THINK MANY OF THE
[01:10:15] AMBITION NEEDS OF EDUCATORS TO USE NEW TECHNOLOGIES HAVE NOT
[01:10:19] BORNE OUT IN THE WAY THAT WERE
[01:10:24] PREDICTED. I THINK PLATO IS A GOOD EXAMPLE.
[01:10:26] BUT, YOU KNOW, FILMSTRIPS,
[01:10:29] RADIO, TELEVISION, ALL OF THESE THINGS WERE GOING TO BRING, YOU
[01:10:33] KNOW, NEW DEMOCRATIC ACCESS,
[01:10:34] REPLACE HUMAN TEACHERS OR AT
[01:10:37] LEAST FACE TO FACE TEACHING AND INSTRUCTION IN WAYS THAT HAVE
[01:10:42] NOT, YOU KNOW, HAVE NEVER
[01:10:45] SATISFACTORILY, I WOULD ARGUE, REPLACE THE KIND OF HUMAN
[01:10:48] INTERACTION OF THE CLASSROOM AND MORE OF EDUCATION. BUT THERE'S THIS OTHER ISSUE
[01:10:51] THAT I THINK WE'RE FACING NOW.
[01:10:53] WHILE SOME OF THESE PEDAGOGICAL
[01:10:57] OR TECHNOLOGICAL TOOLS IN PEDAGOGY FOR INSTANCE, WERE HAVE
[01:11:01] BEEN TRIED IN THE PAST, WHAT WE'RE SEEING NOW WITHOUT A LOT
[01:11:04] OF DEBATE OR A LOT OF PUBLIC
[01:11:06] KNOWLEDGE, EVEN, IS THE BUYING
[01:11:11] UP BY WHOLE SCHOOL DISTRICTS AND THINGS LIKE THAT OF COURSEWARE
[01:11:15] THAT ARE INFRASTRUCTURAL IN A
[01:11:18] NEW WAY IN OUR SYSTEM.
[01:11:21] SO IT MEANS THAT STUDENTS ARE,
[01:11:24] WHETHER THEY WANT TO OR NOT, BOTH BEING KIND OF SOLICITED
[01:11:28] INTO A WHOLE, YOU KNOW, PRIVATE
[01:11:30] COMMERCIAL SYSTEM OF COURSEWARE
[01:11:34] OR OF DATA TRACKING THE IN WAYS
[01:11:37] THAT ARE NEW AND MORE
[01:11:39] UBIQUITOUS, WHICH I THINK, YOU KNOW, DOES POSE CERTAIN KINDS OF
[01:11:43] PROBLEMS. IF YOU THINK ABOUT WHETHER IT'S
[01:11:45] A DISCIPLINARY OR RECORDKEEPING,
[01:11:50] ACADEMIC CREDENTIAL KEEPING OR
[01:11:52] THOSE KINDS OF SYSTEMS THAT ARE.
[01:11:57] SUSCEPTIBLE TO OTHER USES, I GUESS IS THE EASIEST WAY TO SAY IT.
[01:12:01] YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE ONGOING PROBLEMS WITH NEW DATABASE
[01:12:05] TECHNOLOGIES ARE THEY'RE CREATED FOR ONE REASON AND THEN CAN BE
[01:12:08] USED OR INFILTRATED OR, YOU KNOW, INTERCEPTED FOR OTHER
[01:12:11] PURPOSES, CONSCRIPTED INTO OTHER PURPOSES. AND I THINK SO I THINK THERE ARE
[01:12:15] A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT KINDS OF
[01:12:16] ISSUES RELATED TO TECHNOLOGIES
[01:12:19] AND PEDAGOGY IN THE CLASSROOM.
[01:12:21] SO, YEAH, THE FIRST BEING THE
[01:12:25] FIRST BEING THIS PROBLEM OF
[01:12:28] TECHNOLOGIES OVERPROMISING, THE SECOND BEING NEW SYSTEMS THAT ARE POSSIBLY PRIVACY,
[01:12:34] COMPROMISING. AND THEN THERE'S THE NEW ONE, WHICH IS MAYBE CERTAIN KINDS OF
[01:12:37] TECHNOLOGIES ARE REPLACING THE KIND OF COGNITIVE WORK THAT WE
[01:12:41] ASSOCIATE WITH, SAY, A LIBERAL
[01:12:43] ARTS EDUCATION. RIGHT? READING, WRITING, CRITICAL
[01:12:47] THINKING, BEING OUTSOURCED TO TECHNOLOGIES.
[01:12:49] AND THAT THAT IS RELATIVELY NEW,
[01:12:51] I WOULD SAY, IN THIS HISTORY AND IS THE ONE THAT'S GIVING
[01:12:55] CLASSROOM EDUCATORS ON THE FRONT LINES. YOU KNOW, THE MOST PAUSE BECAUSE
[01:12:58] IT SEEMS LIKE A LOT OF THE WORK
[01:13:01] THAT USED TO HAPPEN AND WAS VALUED IN CLASSROOMS MIGHT BE
[01:13:06] SIMILAR TO OUTSOURCED TO OTHER
[01:13:08] OTHER COMMERCIAL PRODUCTS.
[01:13:10] SO I DO THINK THERE'S A LOT OF
[01:13:13] GOOD WORK GOING ON RIGHT NOW. I THINK THIS TOOK A LOT OF
[01:13:16] EDUCATORS BY SURPRISE AND WE'RE NOT PREPARED FOR THIS.
[01:13:19] I WAS WORKING ON A CURRICULUM REFORM PROJECT THE MOMENT THAT
[01:13:23] CHATBOT ARRIVED, AND IT REALLY UPENDED US FOR A LITTLE WHILE.
[01:13:27] BUT BUT I DO THINK COLLEGE
[01:13:30] FACULTY, K-THROUGH-12 EDUCATORS,
[01:13:33] ARE STARTING TO REALIZE AND THINK THROUGH THE IMPLICATIONS.
[01:13:36] AND COMING UP WITH ALL KINDS OF NEW EXPERIMENTS, WHICH SUGGESTS
[01:13:39] THAT, YOU KNOW, CREATIVITY IS ALWAYS SOMETHING THAT CANNOT BE
[01:13:41] UNDERESTIMATED, WHETHER IT'S IN TERMS OF THINKING ABOUT
[01:13:44] WORKFORCE IMPLICATIONS OR PEDAGOGY OR TEACHING.
[01:13:49] SO I'LL STOP THERE. CAN I JUST JUMP IN REALLY QUICK?
[01:13:52] SO YOU AGREE WITH ALL OF THAT? I JUST WANTED TO ADD TWO MORE COMMENTS.
[01:13:56] AND ONE IS JUST IT NOT ONLY ARE PEOPLE TRYING TO OUTSOURCE IT,
[01:13:59] BUT THEY ACTUALLY CAN'T WRITE. AND I THINK THIS IS SOMETHING THAT UNTIL YOU'VE DONE RESEARCH,
[01:14:03] YOU DON'T ACTUALLY UNDERSTAND, STUDENTS THINK OTHERS JUST FACTS IN THE WORLD.
[01:14:06] AND THEY NEED TO LEARN THEM, BUT THEY DON'T NEED TO LEARN THEM ANYMORE BECAUSE THEY KNOWS THEM ALL.
[01:14:09] YEAH, I NEVER PRODUCES ANY NEW KNOWLEDGE. IT CAN'T TELL YOU ANYTHING THAT
[01:14:13] SOMEBODY HASN'T ALREADY SAID ON THE INTERNET. A LOT OF THAT STUFF WRONG. AND THEN IT KIND OF AVERAGES OUT
[01:14:17] INTO SOMETHING THAT'S KIND OF GENERIC AND NOT THAT INTERESTING ACTUALLY.
[01:14:21] BUT THE OTHER JUST COMMENT IN TERMS OF LIKE STRUCTURALLY WHAT'S HAPPENING AND THINKING
[01:14:25] ABOUT THIS HISTORICALLY,
[01:14:27] STUDENTS ARE ALSO TARGETS FOR
[01:14:29] COMPANIES AND HAVE ALWAYS BEEN RIGHT.
[01:14:32] SO WHY DOES APPLE AND WHY DID
[01:14:34] APPLE AND MICROSOFT EARLY ON
[01:14:36] MAKE ALL THESE DONATIONS TO SCHOOLS VERY CHARITABLY, VERY
[01:14:40] GENEROUSLY. THEY'RE TRYING TO CAPTURE A MARKET.
[01:14:42] AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I SEE HAPPENING WITH A.I. RIGHT NOW.
[01:14:46] THEY'RE PUSHING IT OUT INTO UNIVERSITIES BECAUSE THEN THEY THINK THEY'RE GOING TO CAPTURE A
[01:14:49] BUNCH OF THE NEXT GENERATION OF WORKERS, RIGHT?
[01:14:53] WE'RE GOING TO BE DEPENDENT ON THEIR TOOLS AND WE'LL DEMAND
[01:14:56] THEM AND NEED THEM AND RELY ON THEM IN THE SAME WAY THAT PEOPLE
[01:15:00] LEARN TO CERTAIN OPERATING SYSTEMS.
[01:15:01] SO THAT'S THE CYNICAL. NOPE, SORRY.
[01:15:05] IT'S NOT JUST THAT. I MEAN, I'M NOT SAYING THESE THINGS CAN'T ACTUALLY HELP US DO
[01:15:08] THINGS THAT HAVEN'T BEEN DONE BEFORE. AND YES, I USE A.I. ALL THE TIME TO HELP ME, LIKE SEARCH THROUGH
[01:15:12] THE INTERNET FASTER. BUT YOU REALLY GOT TO CHECK IT
[01:15:16] AND IT DOES NOT TELL YOU ANYTHING THAT SOMEBODY HASN'T ALREADY SAID.
[01:15:19] AND THAT MIGHT BE WRONG ANYWAY. YOU MIGHT JUMP IN HERE IF NOT YOU.
[01:15:22] SO I AGREE WITH EVERYTHING, BOTH
[01:15:25] THERE AND IF I COULD JUST SAID ABSOLUTELY 100%.
[01:15:28] I JUST WANT TO EMPHASIZE AND THIS SORT OF RELATES TO BOTH
[01:15:31] LABOR AND EDUCATION WITH WITH THESE DIFFERENT FORMS OF MACHINE
[01:15:35] LEARNING. SUDDENLY YOU'RE ABLE TO BE
[01:15:37] TRACKED IN DIFFERENT WAYS, IN
[01:15:39] WAYS THAT ARE NOT CAUSAL.
[01:15:42] AND WHAT THAT MEANS IS YOU'RE BEING CLASSIFIED IN WAYS THAT
[01:15:45] YOU PROBABLY DON'T REALIZE, FOR INSTANCE, AND THAT HAS REAL
[01:15:48] WORLD CONSEQUENCES, DESPITE YOUR NOT REALIZING IT, RIGHT? SO, FOR INSTANCE, I USE
[01:15:54] MICROSOFT OFFICE, RIGHT? BECAUSE THAT'S I MEAN, I USE OUTLOOK, RIGHT? BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT MY SCHOOL USES.
[01:15:58] WELL, YOU KNOW, THERE'S RECORDS
[01:16:00] OF ME SENDING EMAILS TO EVERYONE. HOW PRODUCTIVE AM I BEING?
[01:16:04] I ONLY SENT LIKE 20 EMAILS THIS WEEK. I DIDN'T I SENT A JILLION.
[01:16:08] AND IT'S SAD, BUT BUT BUT I ONLY SENT 20 EMAILS THIS WEEK.
[01:16:11] I MUST BE SUPER UNPRODUCTIVE. WHERE THE NEXT WEEK WHEN I SEND 150 EMAILS.
[01:16:15] OH MY GOSH, THEN I MUST BE SUPER PRODUCTIVE. RIGHT?
[01:16:18] IT CREATES THESE WAYS OF TRACKING PEOPLE THAT MAY OR MAY
[01:16:21] NOT ALIGN WITH REAL WORLD OR
[01:16:25] REAL WORLD RESULTS. RIGHT? THAT'S THE FIRST THING. AND IT RELATES TO QUESTIONS OF
[01:16:29] EDUCATION AS A SERVICE, AS MENTIONED EARLIER. RIGHT.
[01:16:32] IT'S NOW IS NOW THE CASE IN IN A NUMBER OF SCHOOLS WHERE
[01:16:36] ELEMENTARY STUDENTS WHO USE
[01:16:39] THEIR LAPTOPS, EVERYTHING THEY TYPE IN THEIR LAPTOP IS BEING
[01:16:43] TRACKED. AND IF LIKE THE RIGHT COMBINATION OF WORDS, VARIOUS
[01:16:45] STATISTICAL THINGS COME TO COME TO PASS ACCORDING TO THIRD PARTY COMPANIES.
[01:16:49] AND YOU GET IDENTIFIED AS A POTENTIAL SUICIDE RISK OR
[01:16:53] SUICIDAL IDEATION, THEN LIKE
[01:16:55] PLEASE SHOW UP AT YOUR DOOR. AND THIS IS THIS IS NOT IN THE
[01:16:59] FUTURE. THIS IS ALREADY HAPPENING RIGHT. THIS IS HAPPENING.
[01:17:02] ELEMENTARY SCHOOLS RIGHT NOW. THESE ARE NEW WAYS OF OBSERVING
[01:17:07] STUDENTS THAT WERE NEVER BEFORE POSSIBLE. RIGHT. PEOPLE HAVE DIFFERENT RESPONSES.
[01:17:09] WHEN PLEASE SHOW UP AT YOUR DOOR. RIGHT. DIFFERENT POPULATIONS RESPOND
[01:17:13] DIFFERENTLY. RIGHT? TO SAY THE LEAST.
[01:17:18] SO AND SCHOOL ADMINISTRATORS LOVE THIS BECAUSE THEY'RE LIKE
[01:17:21] MY ONLY MY ONLY GOAL IS TO KEEP MY STUDENTS SAFE AND NOTHING
[01:17:25] ELSE MATTERS RIGHT. BUT THERE ARE REAL QUESTIONS
[01:17:29] ABOUT PRIVACY AND ABOUT
[01:17:31] EXECUTION HERE RIGHT. THAT WE'RE OFTEN NOT HAVING
[01:17:35] BECAUSE THEY'RE OFTEN BEING OUTSOURCED TO THIRD PARTIES WITH
[01:17:40] LITTLE OR NO DISCUSSION. THIS THIRD PARTIES, BY THE WAY,
[01:17:43] LIKE HAVE ACCESS TO THAT DATA.
[01:17:46] AND IN MANY CASES, THAT THE CONTRACTS THAT THEY'RE SIGNING
[01:17:49] ALLOW THEM TO DO WHATEVER THEY WANT WITH THAT DATA.
[01:17:52] YOU KNOW, TEXT DATA LIKE THE INFORMATION YOU HAVE, THE CHAT
[01:17:56] BOT ABOUT HOW YOU'RE FEELING IS NOT PROTECTED INFORMATION
[01:18:01] ACCORDING TO THE LAW. IT IS NOT THE SAME THING AS TALKING TO A THERAPIST NOT
[01:18:05] PROTECTED AT ALL. SO THESE ARE JUST SOME THINGS THAT ARE SORT OF LIKE COMING OFF
[01:18:08] OF BOTH OF WHAT YOU WERE SAYING, THAT IT REALLY CHANGES WHAT CAN
[01:18:12] BE OBSERVED IN THE KINDS OF CLAIMS PEOPLE ARE WILLING TO MAKE.
[01:18:16] SO WELL, THAT ACTUALLY LEADS TO OUR NEXT QUESTION, WHICH IS TO
[01:18:19] KIND OF ZOOM OUT AND THINK MORE
[01:18:23] GLOBALLY AND AND TO THINK ABOUT
[01:18:25] HOW YOU WOULD DISCUSS EUROPE AND
[01:18:29] OTHER COUNTRIES APPROACHES TO
[01:18:33] PRIVACY AND AI, HOW THAT DIFFERS
[01:18:36] FROM OR PERHAPS SHAPES THE US
[01:18:40] POLICY AND APPROACH.
[01:18:44] I'LL JUST SAY SOMETHING REALLY QUICKLY WHICH IS THAT THE U.S.
[01:18:46] AND EUROPE WERE MUCH MORE SIMILAR LOOKING BACK SOME
[01:18:51] DECADES IN THEIR APPROACH TO
[01:18:54] COMPUTERIZATION AND THE
[01:18:56] POTENTIAL ISSUES THAT COMPUTER
[01:18:58] NETWORKS AND DATABASES,
[01:19:00] INFORMATION SHARING POSED. AND THERE WERE A WHOLE SERIES OF
[01:19:04] INTERNATIONAL CONFERENCES IN THE
[01:19:06] EARLY 70S WHERE THERE WAS A KIND
[01:19:08] OF CONCORDANCE, I WOULD SAY,
[01:19:11] BETWEEN U.S. AND EUROPEAN
[01:19:13] APPROACHES TO DATA SECURITY THAT
[01:19:15] EMERGED AND THE U.S. WAS A REAL LEADER HERE IN CREATING FAIR
[01:19:19] INFORMATION PRACTICES WHICH GOT ADOPTED IN LOTS OF DIFFERENT PLACES.
[01:19:22] SINCE THEN, THE UNITED STATES AND EUROPE HAVE DIVERGED IN SOME
[01:19:25] IMPORTANT WAYS, SOME SCHOLARS
[01:19:29] HAVE TALKED ABOUT THIS AS A DIFFERENCE IN EUROPEAN LAW
[01:19:33] AROUND PROTECTING THE DIGNITY OF
[01:19:36] THE INDIVIDUAL VERSUS A U.S. APPROACH, WHICH IS MUCH MORE
[01:19:38] ABOUT PROTECTING INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS AND HAVE SO PRIVACY LAWS
[01:19:42] HAVE EMERGED AS A KIND OF PATCHWORK IN DIFFERENT SECTORS
[01:19:46] OF THE SOCIETY RATHER THAN A KIND OF UNIFIED APPROACH.
[01:19:50] AND YOU SEE THIS IN THE CONTRAST
[01:19:52] BETWEEN THINGS LIKE THE GDPR,
[01:19:54] THE KIND OF PRIVACY PROTECTION KIND OF UMBRELLA IN EUROPE
[01:19:58] VERSUS THE US APPROACH, WHICH KIND OF REGULATES PRIVACY
[01:20:01] DIFFERENTLY IN PLACES LIKE VIDEO RENTALS AND HEALTH PRIVACY AND
[01:20:05] SO FORTH, WITHOUT A KIND OF
[01:20:07] UNIFIED APPROACH. YEAH, I'LL JUST ADD TO THAT.
[01:20:13] SO. CERTAINLY, YOU KNOW, BUILDING ON
[01:20:16] WHAT SARAH SAID, THERE WAS A
[01:20:18] PERIOD OF DISCUSSIONS LARGELY
[01:20:22] BECAUSE OF CONCERNS ABOUT WHAT
[01:20:26] U.S. COMPANIES WERE DOING WITH DATA FROM AROUND THE WORLD. RIGHT.
[01:20:30] SO THE U.S. EMERGED AS AN EARLY LEADER IN THE TECH SECTOR.
[01:20:34] AND THESE COMPANIES WERE GATHERING DATA FROM OTHER
[01:20:38] COUNTRIES, TAKING IT TO U.S.,
[01:20:40] PROCESSING IT, PROVIDING INFORMATION SERVICES, WHICH IS A
[01:20:43] VERY LUCRATIVE INDUSTRY. AND IT WAS VERY THAT WHOLE
[01:20:46] CONVERSATION ABOUT PRIVACY IN THE 1970S WAS VERY TANGLED UP ALSO WITH SORT OF ECONOMIC
[01:20:50] PROTECTIONISM AND SOME OF THESE COMPANIES SAYING, WELL, WE DON'T
[01:20:53] LIKE THE FACT THAT YOUR IBM WAS
[01:20:57] NOT ONE OF THE BIG ONES AT THE TIME.
[01:20:58] IF BASIC COLONIZING ARE, YOU
[01:21:01] KNOW, DATA AND WE WANT OUR COMPANIES TO BE ABLE TO COMPETE AS WELL.
[01:21:04] SO THOSE TENSIONS WERE ALWAYS THERE BETWEEN EUROPE AND THE
[01:21:08] UNITED STATES, EVEN IN THE 1970S, DISCUSSIONS VERY
[01:21:11] EXPLICITLY AND THERE WAS ALSO SOME TALK OF THE DIFFERENT
[01:21:15] HISTORIES THAT THE UNITED STATES AND EUROPE HAD HAD IN THE 1970S,
[01:21:18] THAT EUROPE WAS NOT THAT FAR FROM WORLD WAR TWO AND FROM THE
[01:21:22] KINDS OF SURVEILLANCE THAT LED TO THE HOLOCAUST.
[01:21:24] AND, YOU KNOW, MAJOR HUMAN RIGHTS ISSUES IN EUROPE AT THE
[01:21:29] TIME. AND SO THAT HISTORY, WHICH IS
[01:21:32] SOMETHING THAT U.S. CITIZENS THERE'S CERTAINLY A HISTORY OF
[01:21:36] SURVEILLANCE IN THE UNITED STATES AS WELL. BUT IT DIDN'T GO QUITE THAT
[01:21:40] DIRECTION. AND SO WHEN A DIFFERENT
[01:21:42] DIRECTIONS AS AS A RESULT OF THAT, THOUGH THOSE DIFFERENT HISTORIES.
[01:21:46] RIGHT. AND THOSE DIFFERENT CULTURAL MEMORIES, I THINK ALSO SHAPED
[01:21:49] THE WAYS THAT THOSE TWO POLITIES HAVE.
[01:21:53] AND OF COURSE, IN EUROPE IT'S BEEN TWO POLITIES. IT'S MANY POLITIES, RIGHT IN
[01:21:56] DIFFERENT REGIONS.
[01:21:58] BUT EUROPE HAS CONSIST CERTAINLY
[01:22:01] I THINK, BEEN MORE IN FAVOR OF
[01:22:03] HAVING OVERSIGHT THAN THE U.S.
[01:22:06] AND SO ONE OF THE ISSUES THAT HAPPENED EARLY ON WHEN THERE WAS
[01:22:09] AN AGREEMENT ON TRANSPORT OR DATA FLOWS WAS THAT ALL THE
[01:22:12] COUNTRIES AGREED THAT THEY WOULD HAVE FEDERAL AGENCIES TO OVERSEE
[01:22:16] PRIVACY. AND MOST EUROPEAN COUNTRIES CREATED ONE.
[01:22:18] BUT AS I MENTIONED, THE U.S. DID NOT CREATE ONE.
[01:22:21] THEY SAID, WELL, YOU KNOW, WE'LL HAVE OMB DO A LITTLE BIT OF THAT
[01:22:25] AND THIS AGENCY DO A LITTLE BIT. AND NONE OF THOSE AGENCIES WERE REALLY INVESTED IN PRIVACY.
[01:22:29] THEY HAVE ALL THIS OTHER STUFF. AND OH, YEAH, I'D ADD PRIVACY TO
[01:22:31] THE LIST, BUT THAT'S JUST ONE OF THE THINGS THEY MIGHT THINK
[01:22:35] ABOUT OR MIGHT NOT. SO IT REALLY WAS A VERY DIFFERENT APPROACH.
[01:22:39] YEAH, I THINK IT COULD SAY
[01:22:42] SOMETHING ABOUT MAYBE US AND
[01:22:44] OTHER COUNTRIES IN TERMS OF
[01:22:48] SECURITY RATHER THAN PRIVACY.
[01:22:50] SO THE UNITED STATES IN THE MID
[01:22:53] 20TH CENTURY EMERGED AS A LEADER
[01:22:55] IN THE MANUFACTURE OF COMPUTER
[01:22:58] TECHNOLOGY, POWER WHO COMPUTER
[01:23:00] TECHNOLOGY THAT CAN WORK WITH
[01:23:04] LARGE AMOUNTS OF DATA PROCESS
[01:23:06] THAT DATA PARTIALLY SO THE
[01:23:10] UNITED STATES BECAME THE LEADER
[01:23:12] BECAUSE BECAUSE OF THAT, A MUCH
[01:23:14] MORE POROUS BOUNDARY BETWEEN THE
[01:23:19] MILITARY DEFENSE SECTOR AND THE PRIVATE SECTOR.
[01:23:21] AND SO NATURALLY FOR OTHER
[01:23:24] COUNTRIES DURING THE MID 20TH
[01:23:25] CENTURY WERE KEEN ON ACQUIRING
[01:23:28] SOME OF THAT POWERFUL TECHNOLOGY IN ONE OF THE COUNTRIES THAT WAS
[01:23:31] KEEN ON ACQUIRING THAT TECHNOLOGY WAS THE SOVIET UNION.
[01:23:34] ACTUALLY, AND GENERALLY THE SOVIET BLOC.
[01:23:37] AND AND YOU SEE TECH COMPANIES
[01:23:43] SAW THE SOVIET UNION AND THEY
[01:23:45] GENERALLY THE SOCIALIST BLOC AS
[01:23:48] A MARKET FOR THAT DATA PROCESSING TECHNOLOGY AND
[01:23:54] INTEREST ONLY IN THE IN THE 70S
[01:23:56] THERE WAS THE WHOLE DEBATE IN THE UNITED STATES ABOUT WHETHER
[01:23:59] THESE COMPANIES NEED TO BE ALLOWED TO SELL THAT DATA
[01:24:04] PROCESSING COMPUTER TECHNOLOGY TO OTHER COUNTRIES. AND TO WHAT EXTENT AND OF COURSE
[01:24:08] THE COMPANIES WERE WILLING TO SELL ON THE NOT THE STATE OF THE
[01:24:12] ART TECHNOLOGY, BUT SOMETHING A LITTLE BIT OUTDATED.
[01:24:15] BUT NONETHELESS, STILL, YOU KNOW, TO WHAT EXTENT DOES THE
[01:24:18] THIS TECHNOLOGY TRANSFER POSE A SECURITY RISK TO THE UNITED
[01:24:23] STATES? GREAT. ALL RIGHT. THE FINAL QUESTION I HAVE BEFORE
[01:24:26] WE'RE ABOUT OUT OF TIME IS JUST TO THINK ABOUT AGAINST A CURRENT
[01:24:30] DEBATE THAT'S HAPPENING AROUND INTELLECTUAL AND ARTISTIC
[01:24:35] PROPERTY RIGHTS BY AND THEIR
[01:24:39] USAGE BY LATINS. AND HOW DOES THIS FIT INTO THE
[01:24:43] LARGER HISTORY OF COMPUTING AND
[01:24:45] PRIVACY RIGHTS AND.
[01:24:50] ANY THOUGHTS.
[01:24:54] I MEAN, I HAVE THOUGHTS.
[01:24:57] I, I DON'T KNOW IF I'M THE BEST HOST ON THIS ONE, ALTHOUGH I
[01:25:00] HAVE A WHOLE SERIES OF NOTICES,
[01:25:04] LEGAL NOTICES FROM ANTHROPIC,
[01:25:05] TELLING ME OR, YOU KNOW, THE
[01:25:08] COURT RULING AROUND GETTING MY, YOU KNOW, ROYALTIES OR WHAT HAVE
[01:25:11] YOU FROM THAT THAT I HAVEN'T DEALT WITH YET.
[01:25:14] SO I THINK, UM, I MEAN, I DO
[01:25:18] THINK THIS QUESTION ABOUT ARTISTIC PROPERTY, CREATIVE
[01:25:22] PURSUIT IS GETTING IS HAVING A REALLY INTERESTING THING LEADING
[01:25:26] TO A VERY INTERESTING DISCUSSION
[01:25:27] RIGHT NOW ABOUT WHAT HUMANS CAN
[01:25:33] DO THAT TECHNOLOGIES CANNOT OR
[01:25:36] AT LEAST CURRENTLY CANNOT. BUT I THINK I'M PROBABLY LIKE A
[01:25:40] LITTLE BIT LESS SURE THAT WE
[01:25:43] WON'T GET TO A POINT WHERE GENERATIVE A.I. IS MUCH, MUCH
[01:25:48] BETTER THAN IT IS NOW AND AND
[01:25:50] MUCH MORE QUICKLY THAN WE EXPECT. I THINK THAT'S ALREADY WHERE GPT
[01:25:54] AND ITS VARIOUS SUCCESSORS HAVE
[01:25:57] HAVE TAUGHT ME ANYWAY.
[01:25:59] AND WHEN I SEE WHAT MY STUDENTS ARE ABLE TO DO WITH THIS
[01:26:03] TECHNOLOGY. BUT I, I THINK, YOU KNOW, WE
[01:26:05] HAVE OLD AGAIN, WE HAVE OLD LAWS
[01:26:09] AND OLD METAPHORS AND OLD NARRATIVES. TO AARON'S POINT ABOUT HOW WE
[01:26:13] PROTECT SOMETHING LIKE CREATIVE PROPERTY OR INTELLECTUAL
[01:26:17] PROPERTY, I'M GOING TO GO BACK
[01:26:19] TO WARREN AND BRANDEIS FOR A MOMENT. THERE.
[01:26:23] SOME OF THE RESOURCES THEY HAD FOR THINKING ABOUT REPUTATION AS
[01:26:27] PROPERTY OR IMAGE AS PROPERTY
[01:26:31] CAME FROM THE LAW OF COPYRIGHT. INTERESTINGLY, THAT WAS WHERE
[01:26:34] THEY LOOKED TO TRY TO FIND THIS NEW DEFINITION OF PRIVACY. IT WAS ONE OF THE PLACES THEY
[01:26:39] LOOKED AND IT'S HARD TO IT'S
[01:26:43] HARD FOR ME TO BELIEVE THAT THE
[01:26:47] 19TH CENTURY SORT OF ORIGINS OF ART, INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY LAW
[01:26:49] ARE GOING TO BE ENOUGH TO DEAL
[01:26:56] WITH THIS NEW KIND OF ABILITY TO
[01:27:00] SCRAPE UP, GOBBLE UP ALL OF THIS
[01:27:04] HUMAN CREATIVITY AND CREATE NEW THINGS MUCH MORE QUICKLY THAN A
[01:27:07] HUMAN EVER COULD. I JUST DON'T THINK OUR EXISTING
[01:27:10] REGULATIONS, OUR EXISTING DEBATE IS ROBUST ENOUGH TO HANDLE THE
[01:27:16] COMING DILEMMAS AROUND THIS AND
[01:27:19] MAYBE OWNERSHIP IS A REALLY IMPOVERISHED WAY TO THINK ABOUT
[01:27:22] SOME OF THIS TOO. MAYBE OWNERSHIP AND INDIVIDUAL
[01:27:25] OWNERSHIP OF CREATIVE PROCESS IS NOT GOING TO SERVE US WELL IN
[01:27:29] WHATEVER IS COMING NEXT. EXCELLENT.
[01:27:33] WELL, WE ARE OUT OF TIME, SO
[01:27:35] THANK YOU, EVERYONE, FOR YOUR
[01:27:38] THOUGHTFUL QUESTIONS. AND UNFORTUNATELY, WE HAVE TO
[01:27:41] BRING THIS TO A CLOSE. AND I APOLOGIZE IF WE DIDN'T GET
[01:27:45] TO YOUR QUESTIONS, BUT I'M SURE YOUR PANELISTS WILL BE HAPPY TO
[01:27:49] SPEAK WITH YOU AFTER WE CLOSE THE SESSION.
[01:27:51] I WANT TO ENCOURAGE ALL OF YOU TO STOP BY THE TABLES OUTSIDE OF
[01:27:55] THE ROOM, PICK UP ONE OF THE HANDOUTS FROM TODAY.
[01:27:57] THERE ARE SOME KEY TAKEAWAYS, SOME EXCELLENT IMAGES THAT WILL
[01:28:01] HELP YOU KEEP THINKING THROUGH THE LESSONS AND THE
[01:28:05] RAMIFICATIONS OF THINKING HISTORICALLY ABOUT THIS TOPIC. AND YOU CAN ALSO PICK UP MORE
[01:28:10] INFORMATION ABOUT THE AMERICAN HISTORICAL ASSOCIATION AND ITS WORK.
[01:28:14] WE HOPE TO SEE YOU AT FUTURE CONGRESSIONAL BRIEFINGS HOSTED
[01:28:17] BY THE A-J. AND THANK YOU AGAIN FOR JOINING US HERE TODAY.
[01:28:21] AND PLEASE JOIN ME IN CONCLUDING
[01:28:23] BY THANKING OUR PANELISTS.
[01:28:37] YOU'RE WATCHING C SPAN THREE
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[01:29:04] STATES SUPREME COURT. PRESIDENTIAL SPEECHES, BRIEFINGS
[01:29:08] IN HISTORIC MOMENTS AS THEY HAPPEN.
[01:29:10] NO COMMENTARY, NO SPIN, NO AGENDA.
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[01:29:19] INTERRUPTION. SO YOU CAN WATCH THE DEBATES,
[01:29:21] HEAR EVERY WORD, AND MAKE UP YOUR OWN MIND.
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[01:29:43] ON THURSDAY, NASA ASTRONAUTS
[01:29:46] JESSICA MEIR AND ANEEL MENEN STEP OUTSIDE THE INTERNATIONAL
[01:29:50] SPACE STATION FOR A CRITICAL SPACEWALK TO PREPARE THE STATION
[01:29:54] FOR THE INSTALLATION OF ITS SEVENTH ROLL OUT SOLAR ARRAY.
[01:29:57] THE NEW HARDWARE WILL INCREASE THE STATION'S POWER CAPACITY AND
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[01:30:08] WATCH OUR LIVE COVERAGE STARTING AT 8 A.M. EASTERN ON C-SPAN THREE.
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[01:30:23] DISCOVER AMERICA'S STORY WITH C-SPAN'S NEW AMERICAN HISTORY
[01:30:26] TIMELINE POSTER. THIS LARGE 4.5FT WIDE POSTER
[01:30:30] EXPLORES THE LIVES AND PUBLIC
[01:30:32] SERVICE CAREERS OF EVERY U.S. PRESIDENT, ALONG WITH KEY
[01:30:36] HISTORICAL EVENTS, LANDMARK SUPREME COURT CASES,
[01:30:39] CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENTS AND MAJOR TECHNOLOGY MILESTONES
[01:30:42] THROUGHOUT OUR NATION'S HISTORY. THE POSTER ALSO FEATURES A
[01:30:46] SPECIAL AMERICA TWO 50TH SECTION HIGHLIGHTING THE COUNTRY'S
[01:30:49] FOUNDING AND THE 250TH ANNIVERSARY OF THE UNITED STATES.
[01:30:53] BRINGING AMERICAN HISTORY HOME WITH C-SPAN, AMERICAN HISTORY
[01:30:56] TIMELINE POSTER SCAN THE CODE OR
[01:30:59] VISIT C-SPAN SHOPTALK.
[01:31:06] WATCH AMERICA'S BOOK CLUB, C-SPAN ONE'S BOLD ORIGINAL
[01:31:10] SERIES SUNDAY WITH OUR GUEST
[01:31:12] BESTSELLING AUTHOR HEATHER COX RICHARDSON.
[01:31:14] SHE'S A PROFESSOR OF HISTORY AT BOSTON COLLEGE AND WHOSE BOOKS
[01:31:18] SPAN SUBJECTS FROM THE CIVIL WAR
[01:31:20] AND RECONSTRUCTION TO THE GILDED
[01:31:22] AGE, THE AMERICAN WEST AND THE HISTORY OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.
[01:31:26] HER MOST RECENT BOOK IS THE BEST SELLING DEMOCRACY AWAKENING.
[01:31:30] HER NEWSLETTER, LETTERS FROM AN AMERICAN REACHES OVER 6 MILLION READERS.
[01:31:34] SHE JOINS OUR HOST, RENOWNED AUTHOR AND CIVIC LEADER DAVID
[01:31:38] RUBENSTEIN. SOME PEOPLE WHO HAVE WRITTEN ABOUT THE REVOLUTIONARY WAR SAY
[01:31:41] THE INDISPENSABLE PERSON WAS GEORGE WASHINGTON. HAD HE NOT BEEN THE GENERAL, WE
[01:31:45] PROBABLY WOULD HAVE LOST THE WAR AND SO FORTH. YOU AGREE WITH THAT?
[01:31:49] IN TERMS OF THE IDEOLOGY, THE
[01:31:51] PERSON HE WAS AND HIS WILLINGNESS TO WALK AWAY FROM
[01:31:55] POWER, THAT WAS EXTRAORDINARY. I WAS TELL MY STUDENTS, AMERICA
[01:31:58] HAS LOCKED OUT A NUMBER OF TIMES, AND THE FIRST TIME IT LUCKED OUT WAS WITH GEORGE
[01:32:03] WASHINGTON IN THAT POSITION OF EXTRAORDINARY POWER, WALKING
[01:32:05] AWAY FROM THE THE ARMY FIRST.
[01:32:08] AND THAT'S JUST WHY THAT'S IN THE ROTUNDA OF THE CAPITOL.
[01:32:11] BUT THEN WALKING AWAY FROM THE PRESIDENCY IS AN EXTRA ORDINARY THING.
[01:32:15] WATCH AMERICA'S BOOK CLUB WITH
[01:32:16] HEATHER COX RICHARDSON SUNDAY AT
[01:32:19] 6 P.M. AND 9 P.M. EASTERN AND PACIFIC. ONLY ON C-SPAN.
[01:32:33] ALL RIGHT. GOOD EVENING, EVERYONE.
[01:32:36] THE PROGRAM IS STARTING, AND I AM AMY BRAND.
[01:32:39] I'M THE DIRECTOR AND PUBLISHER
[01:32:42] OF YOU OF THE MIGHTY PRESS.
[01:32:46] AND I AM TRULY DELIGHTED TO WELCOME ALL OF YOU HERE THIS
[01:32:50] EVENING. WE ARE SO THRILLED TO BE PUBLISHING PRIORITY TECHNOLOGIES
[01:32:53] AND WORKING WITH LIZ REYNOLDS AGAIN AND ALL THE WONDERFUL
[01:32:57] AUTHORS THAT SHE