CSPAN3 — Big Tech in Todays Society
20260806 042600 UTC
917 transcript segments
Original Broadcaster Captioning (Enhanced)
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[00:00:01] HARD WORK THAT HAPPENED AT THE SMITHSONIAN INSTITUTION.
[00:00:03] NATIONAL AIR AND SPACE MUSEUM'S JENNIFER LEVASSEUR.
[00:00:06] SUNDAY NIGHT AT EIGHT EASTERN ON C-SPAN'S Q&A.
[00:00:10] YOU CAN LISTEN TO Q&A IN ALL OF OUR PODCAST ON OUR FREE C-SPAN
[00:00:13] NOW APP OR WHEREVER YOU GET YOUR
[00:00:18] PODCASTS.
[00:00:21] GET C-SPAN WHEREVER YOU ARE WITH C-SPAN.
[00:00:24] NOW OUR FREE MOBILE VIDEO APP
[00:00:26] THAT PUTS YOU AT THE CENTER OF
[00:00:28] DEMOCRACY LIVE AND ON DEMAND. KEEP UP WITH THE DAY'S BIGGEST
[00:00:32] EVENTS WITH LIVE STREAMS OF FLOOR PROCEEDINGS AND HEARINGS
[00:00:36] FROM THE US CONGRESS. WHITE HOUSE EVENTS, THE COURTS
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[00:00:59] C-SPAN DEMOCRACY UNFILLED TODAY.
[00:01:06] HEY, EVERYBODY. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR SPENDING
[00:01:08] YOUR SUNDAY WITH US.
[00:01:12] I'M SURE YOU CAME STRAIGHT FROM CHURCH. MAYBE NOT.
[00:01:16] I'M A NEW SUMMER. I'M HOST OF NPR'S TED RADIO
[00:01:19] HOUR, AND I HAVE TO READ A MESSAGE TO YOU FIRST.
[00:01:22] BEFORE WE BEGIN, I WOULD LIKE TO LET YOU KNOW THAT BOOKS BY
[00:01:26] AUTHORS IN THIS PROGRAM CAN BE PURCHASED FROM BOOKS ON CALL
[00:01:28] NYC, WHERE THE AUTHORS WILL ALSO BE SIGNING THEIR BOOKS
[00:01:32] IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWING THIS PROGRAM. AUTHORS AT THE CONCLUSION OF THE
[00:01:37] PROGRAM, PLEASE GO DIRECTLY TO YOUR SIGNING TABLES. THAT'S WHAT IT SAYS.
[00:01:40] I HAVE TO READ AT THE CONCLUSION OF THIS PROGRAM. WE ASK EVERYONE TO LEAVE THEIR
[00:01:45] SEATS THAT THE NEXT AUDIENCE CAN BE SEATED. VERY FIRM.
[00:01:48] THAT'S HOW WE'RE STARTING. YOU GUYS, I NEEDED THIS TODAY.
[00:01:51] I WAS FEELING SO BEATEN DOWN. SEPTEMBERS JUST KICK IN OUR --.
[00:01:55] I AM SO EXCITED FOR THIS
[00:01:59] CONVERSATION ABOUT WHICH ONES OF BIG TECH'S BIG PROMISES ARE REAL
[00:02:03] PROGRESS AND WHICH ONES ARE JUST DESTROYING SOCIETY.
[00:02:06] IS THE SHORT DESCRIPTION OF THIS
[00:02:10] SESSION. SO COREY, DOCTOR OF RIGHT HERE TO MY LEFT IS AN ACTIVIST, JOURNALIST AND AUTHOR.
[00:02:14] HIS LATEST BOOK IS CALLED AND SHOULD HAVE VACATION WHY
[00:02:16] EVERYTHING SUDDENLY GOT WORSE AND WHAT TO DO ABOUT IT, WHICH
[00:02:20] CHRONICLES HOW DIGITAL PLATFORMS
[00:02:22] DEVOLVED INTO -- OVER TIME AND THE BROADER EFFECT THAT IT'S HAD
[00:02:26] ON PRETTY MUCH EVERYTHING.
[00:02:27] AND SPEAKING OF EVERYTHING, ADAM
[00:02:31] BECKER'S BOOK IS A ADAM BECKER IS A JOURNALIST AND
[00:02:35] ASTROPHYSICIST. LIKE FOR REAL AND HIS BOOK IS
[00:02:38] CALLED MORE EVERYTHING FOREVER,
[00:02:40] FOREVER A.I. OVERLORDS, SPACE
[00:02:43] EMPIRES AND SILICON VALLEY'S CRUSADE TO CONTROL THE FATE OF
[00:02:47] HUMANITY. I'M NOT GOING TO EVEN TELL YOU WHAT THAT ONE'S ABOUT. I THINK YOU CAN GUESS.
[00:02:51] SO I WANT TO START, COREY, WITH
[00:02:54] A RATHER WHAT SOUNDS LIKE A
[00:02:56] RATHER DISGUSTING QUESTION.
[00:02:58] CAN WE UNPACK WHAT AND SHOULD IFICATION?
[00:03:00] AND SO SO LOOK, I WORK FOR A
[00:03:04] NONPROFIT CALLED THE ELECTRONIC FRONTIER FOUNDATION. DOES DIGITAL HUMAN RIGHTS WORK?
[00:03:07] THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THEY DO HAVE LOCAL GROUPS F ADF
[00:03:11] TALK TO FIND LOCAL CHAPTERS AND
[00:03:15] FOR 25 YEARS I'VE BEEN TRYING TO GET PEOPLE TO CARE ABOUT THESE VERY ABSTRACT POLICY QUESTIONS
[00:03:18] THAT RELATE TO TECHNOLOGY. PEOPLE WILL EVENTUALLY LIKE SORT
[00:03:21] THAT OUT FOR THEMSELVES BECAUSE EVENTUALLY SOMETHING TERRIBLE
[00:03:25] WILL GO WRONG IN THEIR LIVES. IT WOULD BE NICE IF WE COULD GET PEOPLE TO CARE ABOUT IT
[00:03:27] BEFOREHAND AND A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO I SAW A LITTLE WHILE TALKING
[00:03:31] ABOUT I CAME UP WITH THIS WORD AND -- IFICATION AND IT TURNS OUT THAT WAS THE MISSING PIECE.
[00:03:35] PEOPLE LIKE TO CUSS, YOU KNOW,
[00:03:37] AND AND SO IT SHOULD IFICATION
[00:03:39] IS A PRETTY TECHNICAL WAY TO
[00:03:42] DESCRIBE HOW PLATFORMS ARE GOING
[00:03:44] BAD AT ITS HIGHEST LEVEL AND THE
[00:03:46] KIND OF THUMBNAIL SKETCH IS IT DESCRIBES THIS PROCESS WHERE
[00:03:50] PLATFORMS ARE GOOD TO THEIR END USERS. THEY BRING THOSE END USERS AND
[00:03:53] THEY FIND A WAY TO LOCK THEM IN SO THAT THEY CAN MAKE THINGS
[00:03:55] WORSE FOR THOSE USERS WITHOUT RISKING THEIR DEPARTURE, BUT NOT
[00:03:59] MERELY OUT OF SADISM, ALTHOUGH OBVIOUSLY THERE'S SOME SADISM
[00:04:03] THERE, BUT PRIMARILY TO MAKE THINGS BETTER FOR BUSINESS
[00:04:05] CUSTOMERS WHO THEN GET BROUGHT INTO THE PLATFORM.
[00:04:08] SO IT'S NOT JUST LIKE IF YOU'RE PAYING FOR THE PRODUCT, YOU'RE THE PRODUCT. EVERYONE IS THE PRODUCT HERE.
[00:04:12] THOSE BUSINESS CUSTOMERS ALSO GET LOCKED IN AND THEN THE
[00:04:15] PLATFORM MAKES THINGS WORSE FOR THEM AS WELL.
[00:04:17] SO WE'RE LOCKED IN. WE ARE THE REASON THAT BUSINESS
[00:04:21] CUSTOMERS ARE THERE, THEY'RE LOCKED IN, AND THEN EVERYBODY GETS LOCKED IN THE PLATFORM,
[00:04:24] TURNS INTO A PILE OF --, AND YOU CAN SEE THAT, YOU KNOW, WITH
[00:04:28] FACEBOOK WHERE THEY WERE LIKE, GOOD TO END USERS. THEY RESPECTED OUR PRIVACY. THEY SHOWED US THE THINGS THEY
[00:04:32] WANTED. THEN THEY STARTED SPYING ON US AND THEY LURED IN ADVERTISERS
[00:04:35] AND PUBLISHERS, AND THEN THEY STARTED SCREWING THEM AND MAKING
[00:04:38] ADVERTISING COST MORE AND MAKING PUBLISHERS PAY TO REACH THEIR OWN SUBSCRIBERS TO BOOST THEIR
[00:04:43] CONTENT. AND THEN THEY CLAWED BACK ALL THE VALUE FOR THEMSELVES. AND THEN BECAUSE THEY'RE IN THIS
[00:04:47] FRAGILE EQUILIBRIUM WHERE LIKE AT ANY MOMENT THEY COULD HAVE A PRIVACY SCANDAL OR CAMBRIDGE
[00:04:51] ANALYTICA THING OR A WHISTLEBLOWER, SOMEONE LIVE STREAMING A MASS SHOOTING ON THE
[00:04:56] PLATFORM, THEY'RE IN THIS BRITTLE EQUILIBRIUM WHERE PEOPLE PERIODICALLY LEAVE BECAUSE THE
[00:05:00] DIFFERENCE BETWEEN I HATE THIS, BUT I CAN'T SEEM TO STOP USING IT AND I HATE THIS AND I'M NEVER
[00:05:04] COMING BACK. IT'S PRETTY THIN. AND WHEN THAT HAPPENS, YOU KNOW,
[00:05:08] THEY LOSE USERS AND THEY START TO PANIC. BEING TECH PROS, THEY HAVE A
[00:05:12] TECHNICAL TERM FOR THIS. THEY CALL IT PIVOTING. AND SO, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE THIS
[00:05:16] SITUATION WHERE ONE DAY MARK ZUCKERBERG, LIKE A ROSE FROM HIS
[00:05:19] SARCOPHAGUS AND SAID, YOU KNOW,
[00:05:21] I KNOW HARKEN TO ME. I KNOW I TOLD YOU THAT YOUR
[00:05:25] FUTURE WOULD CONSIST OF, YOU KNOW, ARGUING WITH YOUR RACIST
[00:05:28] UNCLE USING A PRIMITIVE TEXT INTERFACE I USE.
[00:05:30] SO I DEVELOPED IN MY DORM ROOM
[00:05:32] SO THAT WE NONCONSENSUAL RATE HOW BANKABLE HARVARD
[00:05:35] UNDERGRADUATES WERE. BUT ACTUALLY, I'VE HAD A VISION AND THE FUTURE IS GOING TO BE
[00:05:39] THAT I'M GOING TO CONVERT YOU AND EVERYONE YOU LOVE INTO A LIGHTLESS SEXLESS HIGH, LOW
[00:05:43] POLYGON, HEAVILY SURVEILLED CARTOON CHARACTER. AND I'M GOING TO IMPRISON YOU
[00:05:46] AND A VIRTUAL WORLD I STOLE FROM A 25 YEAR OLD SATIRICAL
[00:05:50] CYBERPUNK NOVEL THAT I CALL THE METAVERSE. RIGHT. AND THAT'S THE PLATFORM, REALLY
[00:05:53] LIKE, THAT'S THE FINAL STAGE OF
[00:05:55] INSIDE STRATIFICATION.
[00:06:02] OKAY, ADAM, YOUR TURN. CAN YOU LAY OUT?
[00:06:04] I HAVE TO GO AFTER THAT. I KNOW, RIGHT? I HEARD YOU WANT TO PODCAST SAY
[00:06:08] THAT THE OTHER TITLE YOU THOUGHT
[00:06:10] ABOUT FOR YOUR BOOK WAS CALLED THESE EFFING PEOPLE.
[00:06:16] YEAH, THAT'S TRUE. YOU GUYS, THIS IS ON C SPAN, BUT
[00:06:19] THAT'S THEIR PROBLEM I SUPPOSE. OKAY.
[00:06:21] SO REFERRING TO. THESE MEN WHO COME OUT OF THEIR
[00:06:27] SARCOPHAGI AND SHOULD IF I ALL. YEAH, ESSENTIALLY. YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT. TALK US THROUGH.
[00:06:32] WELL YOU KNOW JUST TO PICK ON
[00:06:35] ONE OF THESE EFFING PEOPLE WHICH
[00:06:39] WAS NOT THE ALTERNATIVE TITLE
[00:06:40] JUST BE CLEAR BUT IT WAS, IT WAS
[00:06:44] MORE EXPLICIT TITLE. YEAH.
[00:06:46] NO I MEAN I, I THINK THAT MY PUBLISHER WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN
[00:06:50] HAPPY WITH THAT. BUT YOU KNOW, WHAT CAN YOU DO? CAN I USE IT?
[00:06:54] NO, I TRADE MARKED.
[00:06:59] NO. YOU KNOW, JUST TO PICK ON ONE OF THEM. RIGHT.
[00:07:05] EVERYBODY'S FAVORITE ONE TO PICK ON BECAUSE HE'S THE WORST. ELON MUSK. RIGHT.
[00:07:11] HE HAS TRIED TO JUSTIFY ALL OF
[00:07:13] THE AWFUL THINGS THAT HE'S DONE
[00:07:16] BY SAYING THAT HE'S TRYING TO
[00:07:19] SAVE HUMANITY, BY MAKING HUMANS
[00:07:24] INTO A MULTI-PLANETARY SPECIES,
[00:07:26] BY TAKING US TO MARS AND, YOU KNOW, FOR ALL OF HIS
[00:07:29] INCONSISTENCIES, HE'S BEEN VERY,
[00:07:30] VERY CONSISTENT ABOUT EXACTLY WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE FOR HIM.
[00:07:33] HE SAYS HE WANTS A MILLION
[00:07:35] PEOPLE ON MARS BY 2050 IN ORDER
[00:07:39] TO HAVE A SELF-SUSTAINING SOCIETY THAT WILL SURVIVE EVEN
[00:07:42] IF THE ROCKETS FROM EARTH STOP COMING.
[00:07:44] AND THIS IS ROUGHLY THE STEW PIT
[00:07:49] IS THING THAT I CAN IMAGINE ANYBODY SAYING, BECAUSE THERE IS
[00:07:53] NOTHING THAT COULD HAPPEN TO EARTH THAT WOULD MAKE MARS A
[00:07:55] BETTER OPTION.
[00:07:57] YOU COULD GET HIT BY AN ASTEROID AS BIG AS THE ONE THAT KILLED OFF THE DINOSAURS.
[00:08:01] MILLIONS OF YEARS AGO, AND EARTH WOULD STILL BE MORE HABITABLE THAN MARS.
[00:08:05] YOU COULD HAVE ALL OF THE NUCLEAR WEAPONS ON EARTH GO OFF
[00:08:08] AT THE SAME TIME, AND EARTH WOULD STILL BE MORE HABITABLE THAN MARS.
[00:08:12] YOU COULD DO BOTH OF THOSE AND
[00:08:14] ALSO HAVE AN ICE AGE AND EARTH
[00:08:17] WOULD STILL BE MORE HABITABLE THAN MARS.
[00:08:19] YOU COULD HAVE THE WORST CASE SCENARIO FOR CLIMATE CHANGE, AND EARTH WOULD STILL BE MORE
[00:08:23] HABITABLE TO MARS BECAUSE WE HAVE OXYGEN IN THE ATMOSPHERE.
[00:08:27] MARS DOESN'T HAVE THAT. IS THAT IMPORTANT?
[00:08:31] YEAH.
[00:08:31] OH, SO YOU KNOW, MUSK CLAIMS TO
[00:08:36] CARE A LOT ABOUT HUMANITY, BUT, YOU KNOW, DOESN'T SEEM TO CARE
[00:08:39] VERY MUCH ABOUT HUMANS. AND THIS HAS BEEN RUNNING AROUND A LOT.
[00:08:43] RIGHT. YOU KNOW, YOU GET SAM ALTMAN
[00:08:45] CLAIMING THAT HE'S GOING TO
[00:08:47] SOLVE CLIMATE CHANGE BY ASKING A
[00:08:50] SUPERINTELLIGENT A.I. THAT HE AND NOBODY ELSE KNOWS HOW TO
[00:08:52] BUILD OR CAN EVEN DEFINE BY
[00:08:56] ASKING THAT FOR THREE WISHES. THAT'S ACTUALLY HIS PLAN.
[00:08:59] YOU KNOW, I CAN I CAN POINT YOU TO THE YOUTUBE VIDEO WHERE HE SAID THIS.
[00:09:03] YOU KNOW WHAT? TWO YEARS AGO, HE DIDN'T SAY THREE WISHES.
[00:09:07] HE JUST SAID, WHAT THE THREE WISHES WERE AND THE TELLING
[00:09:11] THING THERE IS YOU DON'T NEED A SUPERINTELLIGENT A.I. TO SOLVE
[00:09:14] CLIMATE CHANGE. WE KNOW HOW TO SOLVE CLIMATE CHANGE ALREADY.
[00:09:18] IT'S NOT A TECHNOLOGICAL PROBLEM PRIMARILY. I MEAN, YEAH, THERE SOME
[00:09:22] TECHNOLOGY THAT IT'D BE NICE TO GET BETTER AT, LIKE, YOU KNOW,
[00:09:25] SOME SORT OF CARBON CAPTURE MAYBE.
[00:09:28] BUT BUT PRIMARILY, WE KNOW HOW TO DO IT. AND THE PROBLEM IS NOT
[00:09:32] TECHNOLOGICAL. IT'S SOCIOLOGICAL AND POLITICAL.
[00:09:34] AND WHAT ALL OF THESE EFFING
[00:09:39] PEOPLE WANT IS THEY WANT TO
[00:09:43] REDUCE. SO ALL OF THE COMPLEX PROBLEMS
[00:09:44] OF THE WORLD TODAY TO PROBLEMS
[00:09:48] THAT THEY CAN SOLVE VERY SIMPLY
[00:09:49] WITH THEIR TECHNOLOGY AND AND SO
[00:09:53] THAT WAY THEY WON'T BE CULPABLE FOR THE THINGS THAT THEY'RE ACTUALLY CULPABLE.
[00:09:57] OKAY. SO IT IS VERY FUN TO PILE ON ON SILICON VALLEY.
[00:10:00] YEAH, ABSOLUTELY. AND IT'S EASY TO DO. HOWEVER, WE DO HAVE
[00:10:04] EXTRAORDINARY INNOVATIONS. THERE'S ONE IN MY BAG RIGHT NOW,
[00:10:08] SMARTPHONE, INTERNET, AMAZING THINGS. ELON MUSK ALSO IS THE PERSON WHO
[00:10:11] GOT ELECTRIC VEHICLES TO BECOME NORMALIZED.
[00:10:15] SO I WANT TO TRY TO PINPOINT
[00:10:17] WHERE THINGS GO WRONG BECAUSE
[00:10:20] HAVING DOCUMENTED THIS MYSELF FOR THE LAST 15 YEARS AS A TECH
[00:10:23] REPORTER, I DON'T SEE PEOPLE STARTING OFF AS EVIL.
[00:10:26] IN FACT, THEY WRITE DOWN THINGS LIKE, WE DON'T BE EVIL.
[00:10:30] THEY TELL THEMSELVES THAT. BUT WHAT IS THE POINT?
[00:10:34] WE'RE IT GOES TO -- IS IT IS IT
[00:10:36] VENTURE CAPITAL FUNDING? IS IT THAT THEY GET GREEDY?
[00:10:39] IS IT WHERE DO YOU SEE IT HAPPENING? DO DO YOU MIND IF I START?
[00:10:43] PLEASE.
[00:10:44] SO I THINK THAT IF YOU WANT TO
[00:10:47] DO THE GALAXY BRAIN MEME ON THIS, YOU KNOW, STAGE ONE VERY
[00:10:50] PUNY BRAIN IS, OH, IT'S BECAUSE WE ARE LAZY AND DIDN'T WANT TO
[00:10:54] PAY FOR THINGS AND WE SHOPPED WRONG AND THAT'S WHY WE GOT MONOPOLIES.
[00:10:58] IT'S LIKE SAYING, YOU KNOW, YOU DIDN'T RECYCLE HARD ENOUGH AND THAT'S WHY THERE'S A WILDFIRE
[00:11:01] MAKING YOUR AIR UNBREATHABLE. THAT'S NONSENSE, RIGHT? THE SECOND STAGE, A LITTLE MORE
[00:11:05] VALID. THESE PEOPLE. RIGHT? THESE EFFING PEOPLE TOOK THINGS
[00:11:09] THAT WE LOVED, TRAPPED US IN THEM AND MADE THEM WORSE.
[00:11:13] AND THEY TAKE SOME BLAME FOR THAT. BUT I THINK IF YOU WANT TO GO
[00:11:16] FULL GALAXY BRAIN, YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THE POLICY ENVIRONMENT, THE IN -- HYGENIC
[00:11:19] POLICY ENVIRONMENT THAT SAYS THAT IF YOU MAKE THINGS WORSE,
[00:11:23] INSTEAD OF GETTING PUNISHED, YOU GET RICH.
[00:11:25] AND SO TO, TO UNDERSTAND THAT, YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT
[00:11:29] DISCIPLINING FORCES THAT KEPT THE PREDECESSORS OF THESE FIRMS
[00:11:32] AND THESE FIRMS THEMSELVES IN THEIR EARLIER DAYS WHEN THEY WERE USEFUL BECAUSE THEY REALLY
[00:11:36] WERE USEFUL. THE REASON WE ALL JOINED FACEBOOK IS THAT IT WAS FUN AND WE TALKED TO A BUNCH OF PEOPLE
[00:11:40] WE KNEW. AND, YOU KNOW, WE FOUND PEOPLE WE DIDN'T KNOW WE SHOULD KNOW.
[00:11:44] AND GOT IN TOUCH WITH THEM. WE FOUND PEOPLE WE'D LOST TRACK OF AND GOTTEN IN TOUCH. IT IS GREAT.
[00:11:49] AND THE THING THAT STOP THEM FROM MAKING IT SOUR THEN FROM,
[00:11:51] YOU KNOW, DOING THE KIND OF IDEAL PLATONICALLY IDEAL
[00:11:55] BUSINESS THAT GETS TO CHARGE INFINITY DOLLARS AND SPEND $0 ON PRODUCT DEVELOPMENT.
[00:11:59] IS THAT IT WOULDN'T HAVE WORKED, RIGHT? THEY HAD COMPETITORS.
[00:12:03] WELL, WE STOPPED ENFORCING COMPETITION LAW FOR 40 YEARS AGO.
[00:12:06] WE'VE DRAWN IT DOWN. WE LET FIRMS BUY ALL OF THEIR COMPETITORS.
[00:12:09] GOOGLE HAS ONLY MADE ONE SUCCESSFUL PRODUCT, RIGHT?
[00:12:13] THEY MADE A VERY GOOD SEARCH ENGINE IN THE PREVIOUS MILLENNIUM.
[00:12:16] AND SINCE THEN, EVERYTHING THEY'VE DONE INTERNALLY IS CRASH AND BURNED, AND THE ONLY
[00:12:20] SUCCESSFUL PRODUCTS THEY'VE BEEN ABLE TO FIELD ARE ONES THAT THEY BOUGHT FROM OTHER COMPANIES.
[00:12:24] RIGHT? VIOLATING ANTITRUST LAW UNDER
[00:12:28] MERGERS THAT WERE JUST WAVED THROUGH ONE AFTER ANOTHER. AND THAT'S THEIR MOBILE STACK,
[00:12:31] THEIR AD TECH STACK, VIDEOS, EVERYTHING THEY USED TO FEAR.
[00:12:35] REGULATORS. BUT WHEN YOU HAVE FIVE GIANT COMPANIES, THEY CAN AGREE ON WHAT TO TELL THEIR REGULATORS.
[00:12:38] THEY CAN CAPTURE THOSE REGULATORS. THAT'S WHY AMERICA HASN'T HAD A
[00:12:42] NEW PRIVACY LAW SINCE RONALD REAGAN IN 1988 SIGNED A LAW THAT
[00:12:46] BANNED VIDEO STORE CLERKS FROM TELLING NEWSPAPERS WHICH VHS CASSETTES YOU HAVE.
[00:12:50] RIGHT. THAT THEY USED TO HAVE TO FEAR
[00:12:52] NEW TECHNOLOGY. RIGHT. EVERY TEN FOOT POLO SHIRT IS AN 11 FOOT LADDER.
[00:12:57] WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT DIGITAL TECHNOLOGY, YOU COULD ALWAYS
[00:12:59] MAKE A THING THAT MADE IT EASY TO LEAVE FACEBOOK BUT COULD
[00:13:02] STILL SEND MESSAGES TO THE PEOPLE YOU LEFT BEHIND. THAT'S WHAT MARK ZUCKERBERG DID TO MYSPACE.
[00:13:06] WHEN YOU WENT TO WHEN YOU WENT TO FACEBOOK FOR MYSPACE, YOU COULD GET A BOT, GIVE IT YOUR
[00:13:10] LOGIN AND PASSWORD FOR FACEBOOK. IT WOULD LOG INTO FACEBOOK, PRETEND TO BE YOU, GRAB
[00:13:14] EVERYTHING WAITING FOR YOU THAT YOUR DOPEY FRIENDS WHO DIDN'T REALIZE THAT THEY SHOULDN'T BE
[00:13:17] ON A SOCIAL MEDIA NETWORK OWNED BY RUPERT MURDOCH HAD AN WE'RE SAYING TO EACH OTHER AND THEN
[00:13:21] YOU COULD REPLY TO THEM OR PUSH THEM BACK OUT TO THEM SO YOU COULD LEAVE ONE AT A TIME
[00:13:25] INSTEAD OF HAVING TO ALL AGREE TO GO AT ONE POINT. AND THEY USED TO HAVE TO FEAR
[00:13:29] THEIR WORKERS BECAUSE TECH WORKERS, DESPITE NOT BEING UNIONIZED, USED TO BE SUPER
[00:13:32] POWERFUL BECAUSE THE MEDIAN TECH
[00:13:34] WORKER WAS GENERATING $1 BILLION AN HOUR, $1 MILLION IN INCOME
[00:13:38] FOR THEIR EMPLOYER. AND SO THIS IS WHY THEY GOT LIKE
[00:13:43] KABOOM AND MASSAGES AND A SURGEON WHO'D FREEZE THEIR EGGS SO IT COULD WORK THROUGH THEIR
[00:13:46] FERTILE YEARS. AND IT MEANT THAT THAT TECH
[00:13:49] BOSSES HAD TO WORRY THAT THESE TRON PILL TECH WORKERS WHO
[00:13:53] THOUGHT THAT THEY FOUGHT FOR THE USER MIGHT QUIT IF THEY ORDERED
[00:13:55] THEM TO ENSURE TO FIND THE PRODUCT THAT THEY MISSED THEIR MOTHER'S FUNERAL TO DELIVER ON
[00:13:59] TIME. BUT, YOU KNOW, EVENTUALLY SCARCITY GOES AWAY.
[00:14:03] YOU SUPPLY CATCHES UP WITH DEMAND. WE HAVE HALF A MILLION TECH
[00:14:06] LAYOFFS IN THE LAST, YOU KNOW, OF THREE YEARS.
[00:14:09] WE HAVE THE GROWTH OF IP LAW THAT HAS BANNED REVERSE
[00:14:13] ENGINEERING AND MODIFYING SERVICE WITHOUT PERMISSION FROM THE COMPANIES THAT MADE IT.
[00:14:17] WE HAVE NO COMPETITION TO SPEAK OF, NO REGULATION THAT HAS ANY
[00:14:21] TEETH. AND SO WE LIVE IN A WORLD IN
[00:14:23] WHICH EVERY BAD IMPULSE FELT BY
[00:14:26] A FIRM TURNS INTO POLICY WITHOUT CONSEQUENCE.
[00:14:28] IF YOU FOLLOW THE DOJ ANTITRUST TRIAL AGAINST GOOGLE, YOU KNOW
[00:14:32] THAT IN 2019, WHEN GOOGLE'S GROWTH STOPPED IN SEARCH BECAUSE
[00:14:36] THEY HAD A 90% SEARCH MARKET SHARE. RIGHT. THE ONLY WAY TO GROW IS TO LIKE,
[00:14:39] YOU KNOW, BREED A MILLION HUMANS TO MATURITY AND THEN TURN THEM
[00:14:43] INTO GOOGLE CUSTOMERS. BUT GOOGLE CLASSROOMS GOING TO TAKE A WHILE TO DELIVER
[00:14:47] DIVIDENDS. AND SO INSTEAD, THEY JUST MADE GOOGLE SEARCH WORSE.
[00:14:50] SO YOU HAD TO SEARCH MORE THAN ONCE IN ORDER TO FIND YOUR ANSWER.
[00:14:53] AND THEN GET ANOTHER BITE AT THE APPLE TO SHOW YOU ADS. SO, YES, BY ALL MEANS, LET US
[00:14:57] RESERVE A PLACE IN HELL FOR THE TECH BOSSES WHO TORMENT US EVERY
[00:15:01] DAY. BUT LET'S REMEMBER THAT THEY ARE THE INTELLECTUAL PROGENY OF
[00:15:04] FECKLESS LAWMAKERS WHO WORK FOR US AND NOT FOR TECH FIRMS,
[00:15:08] SHAREHOLDERS WHO CREATED THE ENVIRONMENT THAT MADE THEM RICH
[00:15:11] AND POWERFUL BY DOING THINGS THAT MADE OUR LIVES WORSE, AND
[00:15:14] THAT THESE POLICY MAKERS WERE WARNED AT THE TIME THEY TOOK THESE CHOICES THAT THIS WOULD
[00:15:18] HAPPEN. IT HAPPENED IN LIVING MEMORY. WE KNOW WHERE THESE PEOPLE ARE.
[00:15:21] THEY'RE POLISHING THEIR FAKE NOBELS AND DOING CONSULTING AS
[00:15:27] ECONOMISTS FOR LARGE FIRMS AND GOVERNMENT, AND THEY WALK AMONGST US WITHOUT EVER WORRYING
[00:15:30] THAT SOMEONE IS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHICH SIZE PITCHFORK THEY
[00:15:37] TAKE. ADAM DO YOU SEE IT THE SAME WAY?
[00:15:40] I MEAN, A LOT OF THIS IS ALSO
[00:15:42] OFTEN WRAPPED UP IN PATRIOTES. IF NOT US, THEN CHINA IS THE
[00:15:46] EXCUSE THAT OFTEN IS GIVEN USE.
[00:15:48] DO YOU SEE THAT THE SAME THAT IT'S THE REGULATORS WHO ARE TO
[00:15:51] BLAME OR LACK THEREOF?
[00:15:54] I THINK THAT THERE'S DEFINITELY
[00:15:57] I MEAN, I AGREE WITH MUCH OF WHAT CORY JUST SAID.
[00:16:01] I THINK THAT CHINA IS A
[00:16:03] CONVENIENT BOOGEYMAN THAT IS
[00:16:05] USED BY SILICON VALLEY AND HAS
[00:16:08] BEEN USED FOR YEARS FOR WHATEVER
[00:16:10] THE, YOU KNOW, HYPE OBJECT OF THE DAY IS.
[00:16:12] IT'S BEING USED NOW AS AN EXCUSE
[00:16:15] FOR, YOU KNOW, COMPETITION WITH
[00:16:18] CHINA IS BEING USED AS AN EXCUSE FOR NOT REGULATING.
[00:16:21] I EVEN THOUGH THERE IS NO
[00:16:25] EVIDENCE THAT CHINESE COMPANIES ARE AIMING AT THE SAME MYTHICAL
[00:16:31] BEAST OF AGI, THAT THAT U.S.
[00:16:34] TECH COMPANY OR USA COMPANIES ARE TRYING TO AIM AT AND FAILING
[00:16:39] BECAUSE ASIA IS NOT A THING.
[00:16:41] BUT WE'LL HAVE ANOTHER PANEL AFTER THIS.
[00:16:45] YEAH, ASIA IS NOT A THING, BUT
[00:16:48] BUT I THINK THAT I'M GOING TO
[00:16:53] ADD TWO THINGS TO WHAT COREY SAID. FIRST OF ALL, I DO THINK THAT
[00:16:57] THERE IS SOME BLAME TO BE PLACED
[00:16:59] ON THE VENTURE CAPITAL ECOSYSTEM
[00:17:03] IN SILICON VALLEY BECAUSE THIS
[00:17:05] IS AN ECOSYSTEM THAT RELIES ON HYPE.
[00:17:08] IT NEEDS HYPE LIKE OXYGEN TO BREATHE. IT WOULD SUFFOCATE THE WAY WE
[00:17:12] WOULD ON MARS, BUT THE REASON IT
[00:17:17] NEEDS THAT HYPE IS THAT THIS
[00:17:19] VENTURE CAPITAL ECOSYSTEM NEEDS
[00:17:25] GROWTH MORE THAN IT NEEDS PROFIT. THEY CARE MORE ABOUT GROWTH.
[00:17:28] THERE'S THIS THERE'S THIS VENTURE CAPITALIST NAMED REID
[00:17:32] HOFFMAN, PART OF THE PAYPAL
[00:17:34] MAFIA, USUALLY SEEN AS ONE OF THE GOOD ONES BECAUSE HE DOESN'T
[00:17:37] LIKE TRUMP, WHICH, YEAH, NO CREDIT WHERE CREDIT'S DUE. HE DOESN'T LIKE TRUMP.
[00:17:40] HE ALSO DOESN'T LIKE LINA KHAN. BUT WE CAN TALK ABOUT THAT LATER.
[00:17:44] BUT HE HAS A BOOK THAT HE COAUTHORED A FEW YEARS BACK
[00:17:47] CALLED BLITZ SCALING.
[00:17:49] AND THE IDEA IS, OH, JUST MAKE
[00:17:51] YOUR COMPANY AS BIG AS POSSIBLE AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE.
[00:17:54] AND THIS WILL, YOU KNOW, LEAD TO
[00:17:58] SUCCESS.
[00:18:00] AND HE'S WRONG IN THAT.
[00:18:02] JUST GROWTH FOR GROWTH'S SAKE, YOU KNOW, DOES NOT ALWAYS WORK.
[00:18:06] THERE ARE CERTAINLY LIKE KINDS OF TECH COMPANIES THAT CAN
[00:18:10] SUCCEED THAT WAY. RIGHT. IF YOUR GOAL IS TO BUILD A
[00:18:12] SOCIAL MEDIA COMPANY WHERE, YOU KNOW, ONCE YOU HAVE ENOUGH
[00:18:16] USERS, EVERYBODY ELSE COMES IN, YEAH, THAT'LL WORK. OR IF YOU WANT TO BE LIKE THE
[00:18:20] DEFAULT CHOICE FOR, SAY, PAYMENT PROCESSING, THAT WORKS.
[00:18:23] BUT IF YOU WANT TO, I DON'T
[00:18:25] KNOW, TO INVENT AN EXAMPLE, THAT DEFINITELY DIDN'T HAPPEN.
[00:18:28] IF YOU WANT TO SELL A LOT OF COUPONS TO PEOPLE AT DEEP
[00:18:32] DISCOUNTS. THEN YOU KNOW AND YOU NAME THE COMPANY SOMETHING LIKE, I DON'T
[00:18:36] KNOW, GROUPON AND THEN JUST
[00:18:42] SCALING AT ALL COSTS IS JUST GOING TO LEAD YOUR COMPANY TO GO UNDER.
[00:18:47] BUT BUT THERE IS THIS OBSESSION WITH GROWTH AMONG THE VENTURE CAPITALISTS.
[00:18:50] AND IT IS TRUE THAT THEY ARE ATTRACTED TO GROWTH.
[00:18:53] AND SO THIS LEADS TO INEVITABLE
[00:18:58] HYPE AND HYPE CYCLES. AND THIS ALSO LEADS TO THE
[00:19:02] DESIRE FOR GROWTH AT ALL COSTS,
[00:19:06] INCLUDING ANYTHING THAT USERS
[00:19:07] MIGHT WANT, ANY SORT OF CIVIC
[00:19:12] DUTY, ANY CARES ABOUT, THINGS
[00:19:15] LIKE, I DON'T KNOW, DEMOCRACY
[00:19:20] AND AND, YOU KNOW, I WAS ALSO GOING TO SAY SOMETHING ABOUT
[00:19:24] LIKE THE BILLIONAIRES THEMSELVES AND HOW WHEN YOU REMOVE ALL THE
[00:19:26] LIMITS FROM THEM IN THIS POLICY ENVIRONMENT THAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT, THE AND SHOULD
[00:19:30] HYGENIC POLICY ENVIRONMENT THAT
[00:19:32] MAKES THEM FEEL LIKE GODS AND
[00:19:35] THEN THAT MAKES THEM THINK THAT THEY'RE GENIUSES AND GOOD AT EVERYTHING.
[00:19:38] BUT YOU KNOW, WE CAN TALK ABOUT THAT LATER.
[00:19:41] SO, I MEAN, IT SOUNDS SO BORING, BUT REGULATION IS ACTUALLY
[00:19:45] REALLY, REALLY INTERESTING BECAUSE SAM ALTMAN, THE HEAD OF
[00:19:48] OPEN AIR, IS SAYING REGULATE US, PLEASE REGULATE.
[00:19:51] YEAH, BUT HE'S BEEN SAYING THAT, TOO.
[00:19:52] YES, WE WANT TO BE REGULATED.
[00:19:56] YEAH, BUT BUT NOT REALLY WHAT
[00:19:58] SAM ALTMAN WANTS IS HE WANTS
[00:20:00] REGULATIONS ON THE AIR INDUSTRY THAT WOULD ALLOW HIM TO PULL THE
[00:20:03] LADDER UP BEHIND HIMSELF TO LET TO PREVENT ANY OTHER COMPETITORS
[00:20:07] FROM SHOWING UP. YEAH, THE FIRST PREFERENCE OF
[00:20:10] EVERY MONOPOLIST IS NOT TO BE REGULATED AT ALL. AND THE CLOSE SECOND PREFERENCE
[00:20:14] IS TO HAVE A REGULATORY REGIME
[00:20:16] THAT YOU HAVE TO BE A MONOPOLIST TO FOLLOW SUCH THAT THEY'RE THE
[00:20:19] LAST FIRM EXTANT. YEAH, YOU KNOW, I THINK IF
[00:20:22] PRESSED, GOOGLE WOULD SUPPORT THE IDEA THAT SCRAPING SHOULD BE
[00:20:26] ILLEGAL BECAUSE THEN WE WOULD NEVER GET ANOTHER SEARCH ENGINE BECAUSE THAT NO ONE IS GOING TO
[00:20:30] BLOCK THE ONLY SEARCH ENGINE FROM SCRAPING THEIR SITE. BUT IT WOULD MAKE SURE THAT
[00:20:35] NOBODY ELSE CAME ALONG AND DID UNTO GOOGLE AS GOOGLE DID ONTO ALTAVISTA.
[00:20:38] YOU KNOW, I MEAN, THERE IS THERE IS THIS IMPULSE TO LOOK TO
[00:20:41] EUROPE AND BE LIKE, SEE THE EUROPEAN ENDS. THEY HAVE REGULATION.
[00:20:44] THEY HAVE PRIVACY PROTECTIONS.
[00:20:48] IS IT IS IS IT MAKING A DIFFERENCE? CAN WE LOOK TO EUROPE FOR WHAT
[00:20:51] WE SHOULD BE TRYING TO DO GOING FORWARD? WELL, I WAS THE EUROPEAN
[00:20:55] DIRECTOR OF THE ELECTRONIC FRONTIER FOUNDATION.
[00:20:57] I HAVE A LOT OF RESPECT FOR THE
[00:21:00] POLICY WORK THAT'S HAPPENED IN EUROPE. I THINK THAT IT'S TRUE THAT IF
[00:21:04] THE TECH GIANTS FOR OLIVETTI, NOKIA AND DEUTSCHE TELEKOM, WE
[00:21:07] WOULDN'T HAVE SEEN THESE RULES COME OUT OF THE EU. BUT ALL THAT MEANS IS THAT WHEN
[00:21:10] YOU HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF KIND OF EMOTIONAL DISTANCE, YOU CAN START TO FIGURE OUT WHAT A GOOD
[00:21:15] POLICY MIGHT LOOK LIKE. YOU DON'T YOU DON'T FALL INTO THE OPTICS AND CLEVER TRAP THAT
[00:21:18] IT'S IMPOSSIBLE TO EXPLAIN SOMEONE SOMETHING TO SOMEONE WHO'S PAYCHECK DEPENDS ON THEM
[00:21:22] NOT UNDERSTANDING IT. EUROPEAN REGULATION HAS BEEN FAR
[00:21:26] FROM PERFECT. MANY OF YOU HAVE SEEN COOKIE CONSENT DIALOGS THAT WERE
[00:21:28] INSPIRED BY THE GDPR, BUT THAT'S NOT A PROBLEM WITH THE GDPR.
[00:21:32] THOSE ARE ILLEGAL UNDER THE GDPR. THE PROBLEM WITH THE GDPR, WHICH IS THEIR PRIVACY LAW, IS THAT IT
[00:21:38] MADE THE FIRST PORT OF CALL FOR EVERY EUROPEAN ENFORCEMENT
[00:21:40] ACTION UNDER PRIVACY LAW, THE COUNTRY WHERE THAT COMPANY
[00:21:44] CLAIMED TO BE HEADQUARTERED, AND ALL THE AMERICAN TECH COMPANIES PRETEND THAT THEIR HEADQUARTERS
[00:21:47] ARE IN DUBLIN BECAUSE IRELAND IS A TAX HAVEN AND THEY WILL
[00:21:51] MAINTAIN THE PRETENSE THAT ALL OF THEIR PROFITS ARE FLOATING IN
[00:21:54] A STATE OF UN TAXABLE GRACE OVER THE IRISH SEA.
[00:21:57] BUT THE THING IS, THERE'S MORE THAN ONE TAX HAVEN IN EUROPE, RIGHT?
[00:22:00] THERE'S CYPRUS, THERE'S THE
[00:22:02] NETHERLANDS, THERE'S LUXEMBOURG, THERE'S MALTA.
[00:22:05] AND ANY COMPANY THAT CAN DO THE SPREADSHEET WORK TO PRETEND TO
[00:22:09] BE IRISH THIS WEEK COULD BE CYPRIOT NEXT WEEK.
[00:22:11] AND SO THAT MEANS THAT YOU CAN'T
[00:22:14] ENFORCE ANY OTHER LAWS IN THAT TERRITORY.
[00:22:16] OTHERWISE YOU'RE GOING TO LOSE THE BUSINESS OF THE COMPANIES
[00:22:19] THAT DOMICILED THERE. AND SO ALL THE PRIVACY CASES
[00:22:22] SINCE THE GDPR WAS PASSED, NINE YEARS AGO HAVE GONE TO DUBLIN
[00:22:25] AND DIED BECAUSE THE IRISH DATA COMMISSIONER DOESN'T GET OUT OF
[00:22:28] BED MOST DAYS. AND WHEN HE DOES, HE SITS AROUND IN HIS UNDERWEAR WATCHING
[00:22:31] CARTOONS AND EATING BREAKFAST CEREAL. NOW THEY'VE JUST PASSED A
[00:22:37] REVISION TO THE GDPR UNDER THE DIGITAL MARKETS ACT THAT MOVES ENFORCEMENT TO THE FEDERAL
[00:22:41] COURTS. WE'LL SEE WHAT HAPPENS. DONALD TRUMP, FOR ALL HIS TALK
[00:22:44] ABOUT REINING IN BIG TECH, WENT TO DAVOS. FOR ALL HIS TALK ABOUT HATING
[00:22:48] DAVOS AND SAID IF YOU ENFORCE
[00:22:50] THE LAWS AGAINST AMERICAN TECH
[00:22:52] COMPANIES, WE WILL TERRIFY YOU. I KNOW IT'S SPOKEN A LOT.
[00:22:55] CAN I SAY ONE MORE THING ABOUT TARIFFS HERE? IN ALL MY INTERNATIONAL WORK ON
[00:22:59] TECH POLICY, THE SINGLE BIGGEST
[00:23:01] IMPEDIMENT TO GOOD TECH POLICY
[00:23:03] EVERYWHERE OUTSIDE OF AMERICA HAS BEEN THAT THE U.S. TRADE
[00:23:08] REPRESENTED LIVE, HAS DEMANDED THAT AMERICA'S TRADING PARTNERS,
[00:23:12] NOT MEANINGFULLY REGULATE AMERICAN TECH COMPANIES UNDER
[00:23:14] THREAT OF TARIFFS.
[00:23:16] SO HAPPY LIBERATION DAY, RIGHT?
[00:23:19] THAT'S THE ONE BIG THING THAT
[00:23:22] STOPPED OTHER COUNTRIES FROM REALLY MUSCULARLY REGULATING
[00:23:26] TECH COMPANIES HAS BEEN THE THREAT OF TARIFFS. AND THEY'RE HERE NOW.
[00:23:30] AND YOU KNOW, WHEN LIFE GIVES YOU A SERVICE, YOU MAKE SARSAPARILLA LIKE THIS IS A CHANCE.
[00:23:33] AND I THINK WE'RE GOING TO SEE ONE COUNTRY BOLT AND DECIDE THAT
[00:23:36] THEY WOULD BE THE PEOPLE WHO, FOR EXAMPLE, MAKE THE TOOLKIT
[00:23:40] THAT LETS ANYONE USE THIRD PARTY INK IN THEIR PRINTER.
[00:23:43] AND WHEN THAT HAPPENS, EVERY GUY
[00:23:45] WITH A CAR TABLE AT A DRY CLEANER IS GOING TO PAY THAT COMPANY 25 BUCKS A MONTH FOR
[00:23:49] SOFTWARE SUPPORT. AND WE'RE GOING TO GET A WORLD
[00:23:52] WHERE AMERICAN COMPANIES THAT CURRENTLY CHARGE $10,000 A
[00:23:56] GALLON FOR PRINTER INK MAKING IT THE MOST EXPENSIVE FLUID YOU CAN
[00:23:59] BUY IS A CIVILIAN. IT WOULD BE CHEAPER TO PRINT
[00:24:03] YOUR GROCERY LIST WITH THE -- OF A KENTUCKY DERBY WINNING
[00:24:08] STALLION. THAT COUNTRY IS GOING TO START A STAMPEDE BECAUSE EVERYONE ELSE
[00:24:12] IS GOING TO BE LIKE, WELL, WE COULD DO AUTO REPAIR AND TRACTOR REPAIR AND VENTILATOR REPAIR. WE COULD DO THIRD PARTY APP
[00:24:16] STORES FOR IOS AND FOR GAMES CONSOLES.
[00:24:19] WE COULD RAISE THE MARGINS OF
[00:24:21] THE HIGHEST MARGIN COMPANIES IN AMERICA.
[00:24:23] IF YOU WANT TO REALLY PUNISH ELON MUSK, YOU DON'T MAKE FUN OF
[00:24:27] HIS NAZI SALUTE. THAT GUY LOVES THE ATTENTION. YOU MAKE IT LEGAL TO JAILBREAK
[00:24:31] EVERY TESLA OUTSIDE OF THE U.S. AND UNLOCK ALL THE SOFTWARE
[00:24:35] UPGRADES AND NOT GIVE A DIME TO ELON MUSK. THAT'S THAT'S KICKING HIM IN THE
[00:24:39] DONGLE, RIGHT? THAT'S WHERE IT HURTS.
[00:24:42] SO MUCH IMAGERY AND THAT ANSWER.
[00:24:48] ADAM I DO WANT TO GO BACK TO I OKAY BECAUSE DESPITE ALL WE'VE
[00:24:54] HEARD, IT WOULD BE REALLY TEMPTING TO NOT GET UP IN THE MORNING OR TO JUST SIT AROUND IN
[00:24:57] YOUR UNDERWEAR AND EAT BREAKFAST CEREAL.
[00:25:00] HOWEVER, I HAVE TO SAY, IT'S CLIMATE WEEK KICKING OFF HERE IN
[00:25:03] NEW YORK CITY.
[00:25:05] AND I HAVE TO HOPE CALL ME NAIVE
[00:25:10] THAT THERE WILL BE A USE CASE SCENARIO FOR ARTIFICIAL
[00:25:14] INTELLIGENCE TO SOLVE THIS BIG PROBLEM THAT WE'RE STARTING TO
[00:25:18] MAKE OUR PLANET UNINHABITABLE. AND SINCE WE CAN'T GO TO MARS, AS YOU'VE MADE VERY CLEAR, WE
[00:25:21] ARE STUCK HERE.
[00:25:23] IS A.I. GOING TO HELP US FIGURE
[00:25:26] OUT THE SOLUTIONS?
[00:25:28] IS TECH GOING TO HELP US FIGURE OUT THE SOLUTIONS THAT TECH HAS
[00:25:32] BROUGHT US? NO.
[00:25:36] LOOK, IF IF SAM ALTMAN BUILT
[00:25:41] THAT AGI, IF AGI WERE A THING
[00:25:45] AND I'LL GET TO THAT IN A SECOND, BUT IF IT WERE A THING,
[00:25:47] IF HE BUILT HIS A.I. GOD AND
[00:25:49] TURNED IT ON AND ASKED IT, HEY,
[00:25:51] HOW DO WE SOLVE CLIMATE CHANGE?
[00:25:53] AND IT WAS BEING HONEST, THE FIRST THING IT WOULD SAY IS,
[00:25:56] WELL, YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE BUILT ME. YOU SHOULD PROBABLY TURN ME RIGHT OFF.
[00:26:01] YOU KNOW, MY MY CARBON FOOTPRINTS TOO BIG. AND ALSO, YOU ALREADY KNEW HOW
[00:26:04] TO SOLVE THIS PROBLEM AS YOU TURN ME ON.
[00:26:09] IT'S NOT PRIMARILY A TECHNOLOGICAL PROBLEM AT THIS
[00:26:14] POINT. LIKE WE HAVE AN INCREDIBLE
[00:26:18] AMOUNT OF CHEAP, RENEWABLE ENERGY TECHNOLOGY AVAILABLE.
[00:26:21] WE KNOW HOW TO BUILD HIGH
[00:26:24] EFFICIENCY, CHEAP SOLAR ENERGY. WE KNOW HOW TO BUILD GOOD WINDMILLS.
[00:26:28] WE KNOW HOW TO BUILD GOOD GEOTHERMAL. WE KNOW HOW TO BUILD GOOD.
[00:26:33] YOU KNOW, HYDRO, HYDROELECTRIC PLANT.
[00:26:37] THE PROBLEM ISN'T EVEN PRIMARILY
[00:26:40] THE CLIMATE DENIAL OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY HERE IN THE
[00:26:44] U.S. RIGHT.
[00:26:44] BECAUSE THE U.S. IS NOT THE
[00:26:48] LARGEST EMITTER OF CARBON IN THE WORLD AND HASN'T BEEN FOR QUITE
[00:26:52] SOME TIME. I MEAN, YES, IT WOULD BE EASIER
[00:26:55] TO ADDRESS CLIMATE CHANGE IF WE
[00:26:57] HAD A U.S. THAT WAS, YOU KNOW, TRYING TO VIGOROUSLY LEAD THE
[00:27:02] INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY TO SOME SORT OF AGREEMENT.
[00:27:04] BUT THAT WOULD NOT SOLVE THE PROBLEM ALONE.
[00:27:08] THE PROBLEM IS THAT WE, YOU
[00:27:10] KNOW, WORLD WIDE HAVE
[00:27:14] GOVERNMENTS THAT MOSTLY DO ACCEPT THAT CLIMATE CHANGE IS
[00:27:18] REAL AND HAVE NOT BEEN WILLING
[00:27:20] TO TAKE THE AGGRESSIVE STEPS
[00:27:23] NEEDED TO ACTUALLY ADDRESS THE PROBLEM.
[00:27:26] THAT'S NOT A TECHNOLOGICAL PROBLEM, AND THAT IS A PROBLEM
[00:27:30] THAT, IF ANYTHING, THE TECH COMPANIES AND MANY OTHER COMPANIES, INCLUDING, YOU KNOW,
[00:27:33] OIL COMPANIES, THAT'S A PROBLEM
[00:27:36] THAT THEY HAVE TRIED TO, YOU
[00:27:39] KNOW, ENABLE AND PERSIST. RIGHT.
[00:27:43] BECAUSE THAT'S GOOD FOR THEIR BOTTOM LINE IN THE SHORT TERM
[00:27:47] AND MAYBE IN THE MEDIUM TERM.
[00:27:52] AND.
[00:27:52] I DON'T THINK THAT, OKAY, YOU
[00:27:56] KNOW, I'M GOING TO GO BACK TO SOMETHING I WAS ALLUDING TO
[00:28:00] BEFORE. THESE TECH BILLIONAIRES REALLY
[00:28:02] DO BELIEVE THAT THEY ARE SUPER GENIUSES.
[00:28:05] THEY THINK THAT THE FACT THAT THEY HAVE THE MOST MONEY, THAT
[00:28:09] ANY INDIVIDUAL HAS EVER HAD IN THE HISTORY OF HUMANITY MEANS THAT THEY ARE THE SMARTEST
[00:28:12] PEOPLE WHO HAVE EVER LIVED. YOU KNOW, I WAS RAISED ON THE
[00:28:17] SIMPSONS, AND THERE'S THERE'S A HOMER SIMPSON QUOTE THAT
[00:28:21] REQUIRES NO CONTEXT. HOMER AT ONE POINT JUST SAYS ABOUT SOMEONE WHO'S BEEN DEAD
[00:28:26] FOR LIKE 100 YEARS IF HE'S SO
[00:28:28] SMART, HOW COME HE'S DEAD? HE MAY NOT BE.
[00:28:32] YEAH, WELL, NO, NO, NO. WHAT I'M SAYING IS THEIR GENERAL
[00:28:36] ATTITUDE TOWARD THE WORLD IS,
[00:28:38] YOU KNOW, IF THESE OTHER PEOPLE
[00:28:40] ARE SO SMART, HOW COME THEY'RE POOR?
[00:28:43] AND FROM THEIR PERSPECTIVE, EVERYONE IS POOR.
[00:28:48] THEY THINK THAT THEY DON'T NEED TO WORRY ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE
[00:28:52] EITHER BECAUSE THEY BELIEVE IN SOME HAREBRAINED SOLUTION THAT
[00:28:56] THEY'VE GOT INVOLVING A.I. THAT'S NOT ACTUALLY GOING TO HELP AND WILL PROBABLY MAKE
[00:28:59] THINGS WORSE, OR THAT, YOU KNOW,
[00:29:04] SOME OTHER IDEA LIKE NUCLEAR
[00:29:06] FUSION STARTUPS WHICH DON'T GET ME STARTED, ARE NOT GOING TO
[00:29:10] HAPPEN. IT'S NOT HAPPENING. ANYBODY WHO TELLS YOU THAT
[00:29:13] NUCLEAR FUSION IS GOING TO SOLVE
[00:29:15] CLIMATE CHANGE IS JUST WRONG. WE'RE TRYING TO SELL YOU
[00:29:18] SOMETHING OR BOTH, BUT SAM
[00:29:21] ALTMAN HAS SAID THAT NUCLEAR FUSION IS ALSO THE SOLUTION TO CLIMATE CHANGE.
[00:29:27] WHAT? ERIC SCHMIDT, FORMER CEO OF GOOGLE BILLIONAIRE VENTURE
[00:29:29] CAPITALIST, HAS SAID THAT WE'RE NOT GOING TO MEET OUR CLIMATE
[00:29:33] GOALS ANYWAY, SO WE SHOULD JUST BURN A LOT OF RESOURCES IN
[00:29:36] CARBON TO BUILD MORE AIR FASTER.
[00:29:38] SO I CAN SOLVE CLIMATE CHANGE
[00:29:40] FOR US WITHOUT EXPLAINING HOW THAT WOULD WORK.
[00:29:44] I DON'T THINK THAT THESE GUYS
[00:29:47] ARE IN A GOOD PLACE MENTALLY TO BEGIN WITH.
[00:29:50] AND I THINK THE LAST THING THAT THEY NEED, THE LAST THING THAT
[00:29:54] WOULD, YOU KNOW, HELP THEM REALIZE THAT THEY NEED TO BE
[00:29:57] TRYING TO HELP SOLVE CLIMATE CHANGE. OTHERWISE WE WILL COME FOR THEM
[00:30:00] WITH THE PITCHFORKS.
[00:30:03] IS IS, YOU KNOW, A MACHINE THAT
[00:30:06] IS LIKE AN AUTOMATED SYCOPHANT MACHINE, RIGHT.
[00:30:09] PART OF THE REASON THAT THESE GUYS CAN'T THINK. YEAH, EXACTLY.
[00:30:12] PART OF THE REASON THESE GUYS CAN'T THINK AND THEY ARE ALMOST
[00:30:15] ALL GUYS IS THAT THEY ARE SURROUNDED BY PEOPLE WHO NEVER TELL THEM NO.
[00:30:18] THEY'RE LIKE VERY SMALL CHILDREN IN THAT WAY.
[00:30:21] AND NOW THEY'VE INVENTED SOMETHING THAT WILL JUST NEVER
[00:30:25] TELL THEM NO AND WILL JUST SORT OF SUCK UP TO THEM AND CAUSE
[00:30:28] THEM TO BE, YOU KNOW, COMPLETELY
[00:30:31] DIVORCED FROM REALITY BY
[00:30:33] AUTOMATICALLY GENERATING TEXT THAT JUST MIRRORS THEIR OWN
[00:30:38] DELUSION BACK TO THEM. SO NO, I DON'T THINK THAT THERE'S A PLACE FOR THE CURRENT
[00:30:42] CROP OF A.I. SYSTEMS OR EVEN NEAR FUTURE OR MEDIUM TERM
[00:30:45] FUTURE A.I. SYSTEMS HERE. AND I DON'T THINK WE CAN TRUST
[00:30:49] THESE TECH COMPANIES TO, YOU KNOW, TRY TO LEAD US INTO A
[00:30:51] BETTER FUTURE. OKAY. I DO WANT TO MAKE SURE WE GET TO
[00:30:55] YOUR QUESTIONS IN THE AUDIENCE. SO I'M GOING TO ASK ONE MORE.
[00:30:58] BUT MEANWHILE, IF YOU HAVE A QUESTION, PLEASE LINE UP AT EITHER ONE OF THESE MICROPHONES
[00:31:02] AND I'LL COME RIGHT TO YOU AFTER
[00:31:04] I ASK THAT QUESTION AS YOU AS
[00:31:07] YOU POINTED OUT, ADAM, THESE ARE
[00:31:12] WHITE MEN. YEAH.
[00:31:16] AND WITH ALL TOO HUMAN FLAWS. YEAH.
[00:31:20] GREED. FEAR OF DEATH. HMM.
[00:31:22] BUT THE IMPOSED THOSE FEARS ON
[00:31:26] US TO THE POINT THAT THERE'S THIS COGNITIVE DISSONANCE THAT I
[00:31:29] THINK WE'RE ALL LIVING WITH,
[00:31:31] WHICH IS LIKE, SHOOT MY KID REALLY NEEDS THIS ONE PARTICULAR
[00:31:35] NOTEBOOK. TOMORROW I'M GOING TO ORDER IT
[00:31:37] FROM AMAZON PRIME. I DON'T WANT YOU, BUT I'M GOING
[00:31:40] TO AND LIKE EVERY DAY, ALL THE CHOICES THAT WE MAKE.
[00:31:44] I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO MAYBE NOT IN THIS ROOM, BUT
[00:31:48] DEFINITELY LIKE MY KID HAS NO RECOLLECTION OF A WORLD WHERE
[00:31:51] THESE THINGS DID NOT EXIST.
[00:31:52] AND SO I GUESS THE QUESTION IS,
[00:31:56] ARE YOU TILTING AT WINDMILLS?
[00:31:58] OH, YEAH.
[00:32:00] I MEAN, LOOK, FIRST OF ALL, TO
[00:32:05] ECHO SOME OF WHAT COREY SAID
[00:32:08] EARLIER, THE SOLUTION TO THESE PROBLEMS IS NOT INDIVIDUAL
[00:32:12] CONSUMER CHOICE. RIGHT.
[00:32:14] YOU KNOW, LIKE WHEN I WAS A KID,
[00:32:16] THERE WAS A BOOK CALLED 50
[00:32:19] SIMPLE THINGS KIDS CAN DO TO SAVE THE EARTH.
[00:32:23] AND IT WAS SUCH AN OPTIMISTIC, AMAZING SOUNDING TITLE.
[00:32:27] AND IT WAS ALSO DEFINITELY THE RESULT OF LIKE, THE REAGAN AND
[00:32:31] BUSH ONE YEARS, RIGHT? THE IDEA THAT THE, YOU KNOW,
[00:32:35] RESPONSE ABILITY FOR SOLVING CLIMATE CHANGE NOT ONLY, YOU
[00:32:37] KNOW, LAY WITH THE INDIVIDUAL, BUT LEAD WITH, YOU KNOW,
[00:32:41] INDIVIDUALS WHO WERE UNDER THE AGE OF TEN.
[00:32:44] AND THAT IS NOT, YOU KNOW, REALITY. RIGHT?
[00:32:47] THE REALITY IS WE KNOW WHO'S RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CLIMATE
[00:32:51] CRISIS AND AS ONE OF MY FAVORITE TWEETS SAID, THERE'S LIKE 100 OF THEM.
[00:32:55] WE COULD FIT THEM ON A COUPLE OF BUSSES.
[00:33:00] SO I DON'T THINK THAT THINKING
[00:33:03] ABOUT THIS AS LIKE, OH, YOU KNOW, I NEED TO GET LOTS AND
[00:33:07] LOTS AND LOTS OF PEOPLE TO CHANGE THEIR BEHAVIORS. THAT'S NOT HOW I THINK ABOUT
[00:33:10] THIS, HOW I THINK ABOUT THIS IS
[00:33:12] I NEED TO CONVINCE PEOPLE THAT
[00:33:16] THESE DELUSIONAL TECH
[00:33:18] BILLIONAIRES ARE NOT GENIUSES AND ARE IN FACT DELUSIONAL.
[00:33:22] SO WE THE PEOPLE CAN TRY TO GET
[00:33:24] OUR GOVERNMENTS TO HOLD THEM
[00:33:28] ACCOUNTABLE. THAT'S THE TASK.
[00:33:30] IS THAT TILTING IN POWER, WHO'S
[00:33:33] NOT DELUDED LIKE.
[00:33:35] YEAH, WAIT, THAT'S THE SAME THING? YEAH. WELL, YEAH. LOOK, LOOK.
[00:33:39] IS THAT TILTING AT WINDMILLS? WE'LL FIND OUT.
[00:33:43] I HOPE NOT. I DON'T INTEND TO BE REASONABLE
[00:33:47] ABOUT THIS, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE I
[00:33:49] DON'T THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, SITTING BACK AND SORT OF
[00:33:53] ACCEPTING THE CURRENT REALITY IS THE WAY THAT WE GET TO A BETTER WORLD. AWESOME.
[00:33:58] LET'S TAKE A QUESTION, PLEASE.
[00:34:02] I YEAH, I THINK WE YOU KNOW, FIRST OF ALL, THANK YOU GUYS.
[00:34:06] SECONDLY, I FEEL LIKE WE'VE SET A LOT OF WORDS. A LOT OF THEM HAVE FELT PRETTY
[00:34:10] GRIM. PRETTY DARK. YEAH. UM, DEEP DOWN, DO YOU FEEL LIKE
[00:34:13] THERE'S ANY HOPE, OR SHOULD WE JUST START SITTING AT HOME AND
[00:34:16] EATING OUR CEREAL AND JUST
[00:34:18] WAITING FOR THE FINAL SUNSET, YOU KNOW?
[00:34:21] SO I DON'T. YOU KNOW, YOU GO AHEAD. OKAY.
[00:34:26] YEAH. I THINK THERE'S A GREAT DEAL OF HOPE, RIGHT?
[00:34:30] YOU KNOW, I COULD BE I COULD BE
[00:34:32] GRIM AND QUOTE KAFKA AND SAY THERE'S AN INFINITE AMOUNT OF
[00:34:35] HOPE, BUT NOT FOR US.
[00:34:39] BUT. AND AND.
[00:34:42] YEAH, WELL, LOOK, I THINK THAT
[00:34:45] THERE HAVE BEEN MANY POINTS IN
[00:34:48] HISTORY WHEN THINGS LOOKED
[00:34:50] INCREDIBLY GRIM AND THEN
[00:34:53] SOMETHING UNEXPECTED OR STRANGE
[00:34:55] HAPPENED, OR YOU KNOW, SOMETHING THAT WAS ONLY PREDICTABLE AND RETRO ASPECT.
[00:34:59] I ALSO THINK THAT SITTING AT
[00:35:03] HOME AND, YOU KNOW, EATING POP
[00:35:07] TARTS AND WATCHING CARTOONS UNTIL THE WORLD ENDS IS WHAT
[00:35:13] THESE EFFING PEOPLE WANT US TO DO RIGHT?
[00:35:17] MARK ZUCKERBERG SAYS THAT, YOU KNOW, THE AVERAGE PERSON HAS
[00:35:19] ONLY THREE FRIENDS, BUT THEY WANT MORE FRIENDS THAN THAT.
[00:35:22] AND SO HE'S GOING TO INVENT FAKE
[00:35:23] A.I. FRIENDS FOR THEM.
[00:35:26] YOU KNOW, THAT'S A PROBLEM THAT HE CAUSED.
[00:35:31] AND AND ALSO, YOU KNOW, I THINK
[00:35:33] THAT I, I KNOW THERE'S A LOT OF
[00:35:36] EASY DUNKS I COULD MAKE ON MARK ZUCKERBERG FOR THAT. LIKE, OKAY, MARC, MAYBE YOU ONLY
[00:35:40] HAVE THREE FRIENDS, BUT BUT
[00:35:41] LOOK, I THINK THAT ULTIMATELY,
[00:35:46] YOU KNOW, I'M GOING TO I'M GOING
[00:35:48] TO POINT TO A PARTICULAR EPISODE IN THE HISTORY OF SILICON
[00:35:52] VALLEY, WHICH ALSO INVOLVES MARK ZUCKERBERG.
[00:35:54] BACK WHEN FACEBOOK WAS FACEBOOK AND NOT MATTER, THEY BOUGHT A
[00:35:58] COMPANY CALLED OCULUS, WHICH
[00:36:01] MADE, YOU KNOW, VR HEADSETS AND AND A LOT OF PEOPLE WERE BAFFLED
[00:36:05] BY THIS BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T KNOW THAT MARK ZUCKERBERG HAD MISREAD
[00:36:09] SNOW CRASH TOO MANY TIMES AND WANTED TO MAKE THE METAVERSE.
[00:36:12] AND THEN SOMEBODY POINTED OUT, I DON'T REMEMBER WHO AND I REALLY
[00:36:15] WISH I DID SOMEBODY SAID, NO, NO, NO. THIS THIS ACQUISITION MAKES SENSE.
[00:36:19] WHAT'S THE MAIN PROBLEM THAT FACEBOOK HAS SOMETIMES IF PEOPLE AREN'T LOOKING AT THEIR COMPUTERS?
[00:36:23] SO THEY BOUGHT A COMPUTER THAT YOU STRAPPED YOUR -- FOREHEAD,
[00:36:27] THEY WANT TO TAKE EVERY SINGLE
[00:36:31] PIECE OF OUR LIVED EXPERIENCES,
[00:36:33] PEOPLE, AND FIND A WAY TO
[00:36:35] MEDIATE IT THROUGH SCREENS AND
[00:36:38] DEVICES SO THEY CAN MONETIZE IT, DATA MINING IT, AND SELL IT BACK
[00:36:41] TO US AT A PREMIUM.
[00:36:45] WE CAN'T LET THEM DO THAT. AND ALL WE HAVE TO DO TO NOT LET
[00:36:48] THEM DO THAT IS CHANGE THE WAY
[00:36:50] THAT WE RELATE TO TECHNOLOGY,
[00:36:52] GOVERNMENT AND ULTRA WEALTHY.
[00:36:54] SO I WANT TO SAY I'M NOT I'M NOT
[00:36:57] BIG ON PESSIMISM OR OPTIMISM. I THINK OF THEM AS AS VULGAR
[00:36:59] FORMS OF FATAL ISM, THE BELIEF THINGS ARE GOING TO GET BETTER OR WORSE, IRRESPECTIVE OF WHAT WE DO.
[00:37:03] I'M A VERY BIG BELIEVER THAT
[00:37:06] WHAT WE DO CHANGES THE FUTURE. AND I THINK ANOTHER NAME FOR
[00:37:09] THAT BELIEF IS HOPE. AND YOU KNOW, I'M A NOVELIST AND
[00:37:13] WHEN I WRITE NOVELS, I CAN CHART A COURSE FROM A TO Z, AND I KNOW
[00:37:17] WHAT ALL THE TURNS AND TWISTS ARE GOING TO BE.
[00:37:20] BUT IN THE REAL WORLD, THAT'S NOT HOW IT WORKS. IN THE REAL WORLD, YOU SIT AT
[00:37:24] THE BOTTOM OF A OF A GRADIENT
[00:37:26] TOWARDS A WORLD YOU WANT TO LIVE
[00:37:28] IN AND YOU ASCEND IT AS HIGH AS
[00:37:30] YOU CAN AND YOU ATTAIN A NEW VANTAGE POINT FROM WHICH TERRAIN
[00:37:34] THAT YOU COULD NOT SEE FROM YOUR EARLIER LOWER VANTAGE POINT IS
[00:37:37] REVEALED TO YOU. AND JUST BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW
[00:37:39] HOW TO GET TO THE SUMMIT, IT DOESN'T MEAN THE PATH DOESN'T EXIST. RIGHT.
[00:37:43] AND THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WRITING A NOVEL AND LIVING IN THE WORLD.
[00:37:47] AND I THINK THAT WE HAVE LOTS OF OPPORTUNITY FOR HOPE RIGHT NOW.
[00:37:50] THERE ARE MANY THINGS THAT WOULD MAKE THE WORLD MATERIALLY BETTER
[00:37:54] THAT WE ALL SEE AHEAD OF US IN THE IMMEDIATE FUTURE.
[00:37:58] SOLID TOURISTIC WORK, CHANGES IN
[00:38:00] THE GLOBAL ORDER OF TRADE, THE
[00:38:05] RENEWED REVOLUTION THAT'S UNDERWAY RIGHT NOW. IF YOU HAVEN'T READ BILL
[00:38:07] MCKIBBEN, HERE COMES THE SUN, I URGE YOU TO TODAY A SUNDAY.
[00:38:11] ACCORDING TO BILL, IT'S A WONDERFUL BOOK AND A WONDERFUL
[00:38:15] VISION OF HOW A WORLD COULD BE, YOU KNOW, RENEWABLES ARE
[00:38:19] SIGNIFICANTLY CHEAPER THAN FOSSIL FUELS. NOW, WE'VE CROSSED THAT LINE IN
[00:38:22] THE LAST YEAR. BATTERIES ARE 40% CHEAPER THIS YEAR THAN THEY WERE LAST YEAR.
[00:38:26] RIGHT. THINGS ARE HAPPENING. THERE'S LOTS OF REASON TO HOPE. DOESN'T MEAN THINGS WILL GET
[00:38:29] BETTER AUTOMATICALLY, BUT IT DOES MEAN THAT AS WE ATTAIN
[00:38:33] THESE NEW VANTAGE POINTS, WE'RE GOING TO SEE NEW THINGS WE CAN DO.
[00:38:36] AND WE HAVE TO BE ATTUNED TO THEM. WE HAVE TO BE READY TO WORK FOR THEM.
[00:38:40] AND WE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT OUR DESTINY IS SHARED AND THAT
[00:38:42] HOPE IS SOMETHING THAT IS NOT AN INDIVIDUAL MATTER OF SHOPPING
[00:38:46] THE RIGHT PLACE AND HOPING. HOPE IS SOMETHING WE DO TOGETHER
[00:38:50] AND ZEPHYR TEACHOUT RAN FOR GOVERNOR HERE IN NEW YORK, ONCE SAID THAT IF YOU MISS THE
[00:38:54] DEMONSTRATION AT THE AMAZON WAREHOUSE BECAUSE YOU WERE DRIVING AROUND LOOKING FOR AN
[00:38:57] INDEPENDENT STATIONERY STORE SO YOU COULD MAKE A PROTEST SIGN AND NOT BUY YOUR MARKERS FROM
[00:39:01] AMAZON, AMAZON ONE, DON'T WORRY ABOUT WHERE YOU'RE BUYING
[00:39:05] THINGS, RIGHT? WORRY ABOUT HOW WE'RE CHANGING THE WORLD.
[00:39:11] OKAY. I'M I'M MINDFUL OF THE CLOCK HERE.
[00:39:14] SO QUICK ANSWERS, QUICK QUESTIONS. LET'S LET'S DO THAT. OKAY.
[00:39:17] AND THEN ANSWER THEM IN A BUNCH OR. SURE YOU COULD DO THAT.
[00:39:20] SO KEEP IT REALLY SHORT. SO I ALWAYS I WANT TO GO BACK TO
[00:39:25] GRIM ON-AIR IN CLIMATE, ISN'T IT
[00:39:28] TRUE THAT THEY'RE NOT JUST
[00:39:30] DELUDING US, BUT THEY'RE DRY
[00:39:32] LIVING DEMAND FOR ELECTRICITY IN
[00:39:34] VIRGINIA, THE SIERRA CLUB CHAPTER TALKS ABOUT THE EVER NEW
[00:39:38] REPORT. THEY SAY THERE ARE 1295 EXISTING
[00:39:42] AND PROJECTED DATA CENTERS THAT HAVE A FOOTPRINT OF 58 PENTAGONS.
[00:39:46] IF YOU BUILD THEM ALL.
[00:39:47] MY QUESTION IS, IS THERE AN AIR BUBBLE?
[00:39:51] WILL THIS SORT OF OVERBUILDING
[00:39:54] ACROSS THE COUNTRY THAT THEY'RE
[00:39:56] ALL DRIVING ALONG WITH PRIVATE EQUITY GOING TO IMPLODE AND
[00:40:00] BRING DOWN THE MARKET LIKE, YOU
[00:40:01] KNOW, THE THE TELECOM SECTOR
[00:40:05] BACK THEN? THANK YOU. THAT'S A I FEEL WEIRD TO ASK
[00:40:09] ANOTHER. THAT'S A REALLY BIG QUESTION. BUT LET'S GET A QUICK ONE AND THEN ANOTHER QUICK ONE AND THEN WE'LL GO.
[00:40:13] OKAY. TOTALLY DIFFERENT. TOTALLY DIFFERENT TOPIC. I CAN GO CALL YOURS. TOTALLY DIFFERENT.
[00:40:17] YEAH. OKAY. GO AHEAD. ALL RIGHT. THIS IS FOR CORY.
[00:40:20] I WANTED TO ASK A QUESTION ABOUT RADICALIZED. A SHORT STORY YOU WROTE IN 2019
[00:40:24] THAT CENTERS ON ONLINE FORUMS
[00:40:26] THAT RADICALIZED CARETAKERS WHO LOST LOVED ONES TO CANCER AFTER
[00:40:30] BEING DENIED HEALTH CARE COVERAGE. A SERIES OF ASSASSINATIONS OF HEALTH CARE EXECUTIVES AND
[00:40:35] POLITICIANS FOLLOW. CAN YOU WALK US THROUGH YOUR EMOTIONS WHEN YOU READ THE
[00:40:38] MANGIONE HEADLINES AND SPEAK MORE BROADLY ABOUT THE
[00:40:42] CHALLENGES OF WRITING NEAR-TERM SCIENCE FICTION REALISM?
[00:40:44] OKAY, GREAT. AND THANK YOU.
[00:40:48] NEXT, ONE MORE HIGH. OKAY.
[00:40:51] FIRST, I TILTED A LOT OF WINDMILLS. SO I WANTED TO FURTHER.
[00:40:55] COREY, IF YOU HAD A $50 MILLION LOBBYING BUDGET, THE WHAT'S
[00:40:59] KNOWN AS THE INTERNET DESIRED,
[00:41:03] WHAT WHERE COREY PUT A VERY CONSTRUCT OF ROLE INCIDENTALLY
[00:41:06] WHEN THERE WERE WELL THAT NOT
[00:41:09] VERY WHAT PRACTICAL STEPS SHOULD
[00:41:12] WE BE TAKING TO MAKE
[00:41:14] INTEROPERABILITY HAPPEN AND WHAT
[00:41:17] SHOULD WE DO BECAUSE THEY WON'T
[00:41:19] NECESSARILY FORM ME, BUT I AM IN
[00:41:21] A POSITION TO MAKE THEM LISTEN. SURE. THAT'S GREAT. GOOD QUESTION.
[00:41:25] I'M GOING TO SYNTHESIZE THOSE THREE QUESTIONS INTO ONE, WHICH
[00:41:29] IS THAT YOU BOTH ARE CLEARLY VERY GOOD AT ENVISIONING.
[00:41:32] WHAT CAN HAPPEN IN THE FUTURE
[00:41:34] BASED ON ALL THE RESEARCH AND WRITING THAT YOU'VE DONE SO FAR,
[00:41:38] PLEASE LOOK AT BOTH OUR ECONOMY,
[00:41:40] STATE OF HEALTH CARE AND MENTAL
[00:41:42] HEALTH AND TRY TO SEE WHAT WE
[00:41:44] ACTUALLY NEED IN ORDER TO GET TO THIS HOPEFUL PLACE THAT YOU'VE
[00:41:48] BEEN TALKING ABOUT.
[00:41:52] KNOW NO. OKAY. WELL, I WILL.
[00:41:57] ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I'M OBSESSED WITH AND THAT MY MY NEW
[00:41:59] BOOK GOES INTO SOME DETAIL ABOUT, I'M GOING TO TALK ABOUT
[00:42:02] THIS IN A AS A KIND OF REGULATORY RESPONSE IS THE IDEA
[00:42:04] OF AN ADMINISTER ABLE REMEDY, RIGHT? WHAT IS THAT? WHAT IS A RULE THAT YOU CAN MAKE
[00:42:08] THAT YOU CAN FIGURE OUT IF IT'S BEING BROKEN SO THAT YOU CAN PUNISH PEOPLE IF THEY BREAK IT,
[00:42:12] AND THAT IF YOU MAKE THAT RULE, IT ISN'T SO EXPENSIVE TO FOLLOW THAT NO ONE CAN COMPETE WITH A
[00:42:16] COMPANY. SO IT BECOMES LIKE A WHAT'S CALLED SOMETIMES A REGULATORY
[00:42:19] MODE OR A COMPLIANCE MODE. AND ONE OF THE RULES THAT I'M
[00:42:22] REALLY INTERESTED IN THAT I THINK WOULD REALLY WORK IF ANY OF YOU HAVE USED MASTODON, WHICH
[00:42:26] IS LIKE A FREE ALTERNATIVE, LIKE AN OPEN SOURCE ALTERNATIVE TO
[00:42:30] TWITTER, IT'S IT'S IT'S LIKE TWITTER, EXCEPT THAT THERE'S
[00:42:33] LOTS OF DIFFERENT SERVERS BUT LIKE EMAIL. SO YOU CAN BE ON ONE SERVER,
[00:42:36] ANOTHER YOU CAN TALK TO YOUR FRIENDS AND YOU CAN GO FROM ONE SERVER TO ANOTHER.
[00:42:40] SO SAY YOU JOIN A SERVER AND THE PERSON WHO RUNS IT DECIDES LIKE
[00:42:43] NOT TO STOP PEOPLE FROM USING
[00:42:45] SLURS OR HARASS YOU.
[00:42:48] YOU CAN CLICK A LINK AND YOU GET
[00:42:50] A FILE THAT HAS EVERYONE WHO
[00:42:52] FOLLOWS YOU AND EVERYONE YOU FOLLOW. AND IF YOU PUT THAT ON A
[00:42:55] DIFFERENT SERVER, IT JUST MOVES OVER. IT'S LIKE GOING FROM VERIZON TO T-MOBILE, RIGHT?
[00:42:59] SO NO ONE HAS TO CARE WHICH SERVER YOU'RE ON.
[00:43:02] AND IT WOULD BE WEIRD KIND OF TO CARE WHICH SERVER YOU WERE ON. IT'S LIKE CALLING SOMEONE UP
[00:43:06] AFTER YOU CHANGE CARRIERS AND GOING LIKE YOU WOULDN'T BELIEVE
[00:43:09] WHO SIMMERS IN MY PHONE TODAY. RIGHT. AND LET'S THINK ABOUT THIS, IS
[00:43:12] THAT ON THE ONE HAND, YOU WOULD EXPECT THAT IT WOULD MAKE COMPANIES ACTUALLY CARE ABOUT
[00:43:15] THEIR USERS WELLBEING. BUT OF COURSE, BILLIONAIRES
[00:43:19] LOWER THEIR IQ POINTS BY 30 EVERY TIME THEY MAKE ANOTHER BILLION.
[00:43:22] SO MAYBE THEY WOULDN'T GET THE MESSAGE IN WHICH CASE YOU COULD LEAVE, RIGHT? SO HUGELY POWERFUL REMEDY.
[00:43:26] IT WOULD REALLY CHANGE THE WAY
[00:43:29] THE WORLD WORKS WOULD BE LIKE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN LIVING IN
[00:43:31] EAST GERMANY AND JUST LIVING IN BERLIN TODAY. RIGHT?
[00:43:35] IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE SITUATION, YOU CAN TRY TO GO TO PARIS.
[00:43:37] AND IF YOU DO SO, I'M NOT GOING TO SAY HOW WE CAN MAKE IT HAPPEN.
[00:43:41] I'M GOING TO SAY THAT THIS RULE IS VERY ADMINISTRA. WE CAN TALK ABOUT THAT LATER.
[00:43:45] THIS RULE IS VERY ADMINISTER ABLE BECAUSE IF I'M ON YOUR
[00:43:48] SERVER AND YOU'RE THE REGULATOR AND I TRY TO LEAVE AND YOU DON'T
[00:43:51] GIVE ME THE FILE, I GO TO YOU AND YOU GO TO ADAM AND YOU'RE
[00:43:54] LIKE, I KNOW YOU SAY YOU GAVE CARRIE THE FILE. COPY SAYS YOU DIDN'T GIVE ME THE FILE.
[00:43:58] I'LL GIVE IT TO FREE. ONE PERSON COULD ADMINISTER THAT REMEDY FOR A BILLION PEOPLE, RIGHT?
[00:44:03] UNLIKE, SAY, A HATE SPEECH RULE, WHERE YOU HAVE TO DECIDE IS THIS HATE SPEECH?
[00:44:06] DID THEY DO WHAT THEY COULD TO STOP? IT HAS THEIR ENGINEERING
[00:44:10] INFRASTRUCTURE, YOU KNOW, BEEN TOOLED FOR IT AND IT COULD TAKE LIKE SEVEN YEARS TO ADJUDICATE A
[00:44:13] QUESTION THAT OCCURS LIKE A THOUSAND TIMES A MINUTE. RIGHT?
[00:44:17] YOU COULD JUST LET THE PEOPLE WHO ARE BEING HARASSED GO SOMEWHERE WHERE THEY WEREN'T
[00:44:21] HARASSED AND STILL STAY IN TOUCH WITH THE PEOPLE WHO MATTER TO THEM THAT WE'RE KEEPING THEM ON
[00:44:25] THE OLD PLATFORM. RIGHT. SO THIS IS LIKE A VERY POWERFUL WAY TO ALTER THE WORLD.
[00:44:31] AND WE COULD STANDARDIZE THIS
[00:44:33] SYSTEM OF MOVING BETWEEN SERVERS
[00:44:35] SUCH THAT IT WOULD BECOME TECHNOLOGICALLY POSSIBLE TO
[00:44:39] INSIST THAT FIRMS START ADOPTING US. AND SO THINGS THAT ARE
[00:44:43] TECHNOLOGICALLY POSSIBLE ARE REGULAR. SO THAT'S THAT, THAT'S MY
[00:44:47] ANSWER. TIM BERNERS-LEE IS WORKING ON THIS NOW, SO IT IS NOT THAT
[00:44:51] SOLID IS COOL AND INTERESTING BECAUSE. DIFFERENT. OKAY. GO AHEAD.
[00:44:54] YEAH, I HAVE A MUCH LESS
[00:45:01] OBVIOUSLY IMPLEMENTABLE IDEA,
[00:45:03] BUT I THINK IT'S SOMETHING THAT
[00:45:05] WE AS A SOCIETY CAN WORK TOWARD,
[00:45:09] WHICH IS TAXING BILLIONAIRES OUT OF EXISTENCE.
[00:45:14] SO. THEY ARE PARASITES.
[00:45:17] THERE'S NO REASON TO HAVE THAT MUCH MONEY.
[00:45:20] AND WE HAVE SEEN THE DAMAGING EFFECTS OF HAVING THAT MUCH
[00:45:25] MONEY. YOU KNOW, WE USED TO HAVE A TAX
[00:45:27] REGIME IN THIS COUNTRY THAT WERE
[00:45:29] THE TOP MARGINAL TAX BRACKET WAS 90%.
[00:45:33] AND I BELIEVE THAT KICKED IN AT
[00:45:36] A YEARLY INCOME OF SOMETHING LIKE $700,000 A YEAR.
[00:45:40] MAYBE IT WAS A LITTLE LOWER. NOW, THAT WAS A LONG TIME AGO.
[00:45:44] WE GOT TO ADJUST FOR INFLATION,
[00:45:46] BUT I DON'T SEE ANY REASON WHY WE CAN'T HAVE A WEALTH TAX.
[00:45:50] I DON'T SEE ANY REASON WHY THE TOP BRACKET ON THAT WEALTH TAX
[00:45:53] CAN'T BE 99 OR MAYBE EVEN 100%. AND I DON'T SEE ANY REASON WHY
[00:45:56] THAT CAN'T KICK IN AT, I DON'T
[00:46:00] KNOW, $500 MILLION. I DID SAY THAT TO ONE PERSON AND
[00:46:02] THEY CALLED ME A MARXIST AT MY
[00:46:06] MY RESPONSE WAS, YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT. I THINK I THINK KARL MARX DID
[00:46:10] SAY THAT IT WAS OKAY TO LET SOME
[00:46:11] PEOPLE HAVE HALF $1 BILLION THAT
[00:46:15] WAS IN LIKE VOLUME TWO. DOES CAPITAL. I THINK THAT'S RIGHT. AND RAISE THAT. SO I KNOW.
[00:46:19] OH YEAH. YEAH THAT'S RIGHT. YEAH. I'LL LEAVE YOU THERE. I'M RUNNING OUT OF TIME.
[00:46:22] YEAH, I'M SO, SO SORRY TO IT. THEY ARE GOING TO BE AROUND.
[00:46:25] I WANT TO END WITH A VERY QUICK LIGHTNING ROUND. OKAY.
[00:46:28] YES OR NO ANSWERS ONLY. YEAH.
[00:46:30] DO YOU USE CHATBOT SOMETIMES? NO.
[00:46:35] DO YOU GO TO BURNING MAN? YES. NO.
[00:46:40] YOU UBER? YES. YEAH.
[00:46:45] INSTAGRAM NO. ZUCKER. VEGAN. NOT ANY MORE.
[00:46:49] TICK TOCK. NO. HELL NO. X YES.
[00:46:54] NO. AMAZON PRIME. YES.
[00:46:58] YEAH. ANDROID OR IPHONE.
[00:47:02] ANDROID. ANDROID. HUH.
[00:47:04] DO YOU OWN CRYPTO? NO.
[00:47:08] NO, I DO. WHAT?
[00:47:10] HAVE YOU MET ELON? NO. NO, THAT'S IT.
[00:47:14] OKAY. WAIT. I HAVE TO READ YOU SOMETHING. HANG ON. I GOT TO DO THIS.
[00:47:18] THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR COMING. THE BLUE SKY. YES. SIGN THEIR BOOK.
[00:47:21] THEIR BOOKS DOWNSTAIRS. AUTHORS, PLEASE BRING YOUR NAME CARDS AND GO WITH YOUR SIGNING
[00:47:24] ASSISTANT TO THE SIGNING TABLE. PLEASE CLEAR THE AREA AND CLAP
[00:47:28] LOUDLY FOR OUR AUDIENCE.
[00:47:32] THANK YOU.
[00:47:39] HEY. JOEL.
[00:47:41] WATCHING C SPAN THREE DEMOCRACY
[00:47:47] UNFILTERED.
[00:47:49] SO C-SPAN BRINGS YOU DEMOCRACY
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[00:47:55] NEITHER DOES C-SPAN IN A WORLD
[00:47:57] FULL OF OPINIONS, CEASE MAN GIVES YOU DIRECT ACCESS TO THE
[00:48:01] PEOPLE AND INSTITUTIONS THAT SHAPE OUR NATION.
[00:48:03] UNFILTERED COVERAGE OF CONGRESS AS LAWS ARE DEBATED AND DECIDED.
[00:48:07] LIVE PROCEEDINGS FROM THE UNITED STATES SUPREME COURT.
[00:48:10] PRESIDENTIAL SPEECHES.
[00:48:12] BRIEFINGS IN HISTORIC MOMENTS AS THEY HAPPEN.
[00:48:15] NO COMMENTARY, NO SPIN, NO AGENDA.
[00:48:18] JUST THE DEMOCRATIC PROCESS PRESENTED IN FULL WITHOUT
[00:48:23] INTERRUPT SESSION. SO YOU CAN WATCH THE DEBATES,
[00:48:25] HEAR EVERY WORD AND MAKE UP YOUR OWN MIND.
[00:48:27] C-SPAN RESPECT DID.
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[00:48:47] ON THURSDAY, NASA ASTRONAUTS
[00:48:50] JESSICA MEIR AND ANEEL MENON STEP OUTSIDE THE INTERNATIONAL
[00:48:54] SPACE STATION FOR A CRITICAL SPACEWALK TO PREPARE THE STATION
[00:48:57] FOR THE INSTALLATION OF ITS
[00:48:59] SEVENTH ROLL OUT SOLAR ARRAY. THE NEW HARDWARE WILL INCREASE
[00:49:03] THE STATION'S POWER CAPACITY AND SUPPORT FUTURE SCIENTIFIC
[00:49:07] MISSIONS AND HELP ENSURE THE SAFE OPERATION OF THE ORBITING
[00:49:10] LABORATORY FOR YEARS TO COME.
[00:49:12] WATCH OUR LIVE COVERAGE STARTING
[00:49:15] AT 8 A.M. EASTERN ON C-SPAN THREE.
[00:49:16] C-SPAN NOW OUR FREE MOBILE APP
[00:49:19] AND ONLINE AT C-SPAN DOT ORG.
[00:49:28] WATCH AMERICA'S BOOK CLUB.
[00:49:30] C-SPAN'S BOLD ORIGINAL SERIES
[00:49:33] SUNDAY WITH OUR GUEST, BESTSELLING AUTHOR HEATHER COX.
[00:49:37] RICHARDSON. SHE'S A PROFESSOR OF HISTORY AT BOSTON COLLEGE AND WHOSE BOOKS
[00:49:40] SPAN SUBJECTS FROM THE CIVIL WAR
[00:49:42] AND RECONSTRUCTION TO THE GILDED AGE.
[00:49:44] THE AMERICAN WEST, AND THE
[00:49:46] HISTORY OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.
[00:49:49] HER MOST RECENT BOOK IS THE BEST SELLING DEMOCRACY AWAKENING.
[00:49:52] HER NEWSLETTER, LETTERS FROM AN AMERICAN REACHES OVER 6 MILLION READERS.
[00:49:57] SHE JOINS OUR HOST, RENOWNED AUTHOR AND CIVIC LEADER DAVID RUBENSTEIN.
[00:50:01] SOME PEOPLE WHO HAVE WRITTEN ABOUT THE REVOLUTIONARY WAR SAY THE INDISPENSABLE PERSON WAS
[00:50:04] GEORGE WASHINGTON. HAD HE NOT BEEN THE GENERAL, WE
[00:50:08] PROBABLY WOULD HAVE LOST THE WAR AND SO FORTH. YOU AGREE WITH THAT?
[00:50:11] IN TERMS OF THE IDEOLOGY, THE
[00:50:13] PERSON HE WAS AND HIS WILLINGNESS TO WALK AWAY FROM
[00:50:17] POWER, THAT WAS EXTRAORDINARY. I ALWAYS TELL MY STUDENTS AMERICA HAS LUCKED OUT.
[00:50:20] A NUMBER OF TIMES. AND THE FIRST TIME IT LUCKED OUT
[00:50:23] WAS WITH GEORGE WASHINGTON IN THAT POSITION OF EXTRAORDINARY
[00:50:27] POWER, WALKING AWAY FROM THE THE ARMY FIRST.
[00:50:30] AND THAT'S JUST WHY THAT'S IN THE ROTUNDA OF THE CAPITOL.
[00:50:33] BUT THEN WALKING AWAY FROM THE PRESIDENCY IS AN EXTRAORDINARY THING.
[00:50:37] WATCH AMERICA'S BOOK CLUB WITH
[00:50:39] HEATHER COX RICHARDSON SUNDAY AT 6 P.M. AND 9 P.M. EASTERN AND
[00:50:44] PACIFIC, ONLY ON C-SPAN.
[00:50:55] IN A DIVIDED MEDIA WORLD, ONE PLACE BRINGS AMERICANS TOGETHER.
[00:50:59] ACCORDING TO