CSPAN3 — Andrew Lyter Going Among English Sailors
20260812 213100 UTC
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[00:00:01] PARTNERS. AMERICA 250. OVER A YEAR OF HISTORIC MOMENTS.
[00:00:06] C-SPAN, OFFICIAL MEDIA PARTNER OF AMERICA 250.
[00:00:07] >> SUNDAY ON C-SPAN'S Q AND A,
[00:00:14] TOWARD THE NEW YORK CITY OFFICE AND HOME LIBRARY OF PULITZER
[00:00:17] PRIZE WINNING BEST-SELLING BIOGRAPHER ROBERT CARO WHO IS
[00:00:21] CURRENTLY WORKING ON THE FINAL
[00:00:22] VOLUME OF HIS FIVE VOLUME BIOGRAPHY OF LYNDON JOHNSON.
[00:00:26] HE TALKS ABOUT HIS RESEARCH AND WRITING PROCESS ON THE LBJ SERIES.
[00:00:29] >> VOTING RIGHTS ACT, THE CIVIL
[00:00:34] RIGHTS ACT, IMMIGRATION REFORM. HE DID IT ALL.
[00:00:37] AND THEN HE DID VIETNAM WHICH
[00:00:41] WAS JUST HORRIBLE.
[00:00:45] >> IS VIETNAM THE HARDEST PART TO WRITE?
[00:00:49] >> GOOD QUESTION.
[00:00:53] YES.
[00:00:58] I'M WRITING IT NOW AND IT'S VERY
[00:01:08] , REALLY DEPRESSING.
[00:01:08] >> PULITZER PRIZE WINNING
[00:01:13] BEST-SELLING BIOGRAPHER ROBERT CARO ON C-SPAN'S Q AND A.
[00:01:16] LISTEN TO Q AND A AND ALL OF OUR PODCAST ON OUR FREE C-SPAN NOW
[00:01:20] APP OR WHEREVER YOU GET YOUR PODCASTS.
[00:01:21] >> WE BEGIN THIS MORNING WITH
[00:01:25] ANDREW LYTER, DISCUSSING HIS BOOK, GOING AMONG ENGLISH
[00:01:31] SAILORS, AMERICAN TARS ABOARD
[00:01:36] HMS BELVIDERA 1809 THROUGH 1814.
[00:01:41] A BIG THANK YOU TO OUR COMMUNITY PARTNERS. WE HAVE A FEW HOUSEKEEPING NOTES.
[00:01:48] A BOOK FOR SALE IN THE LOBBY, A PRODUCTION OF THE PROCEEDS FOR
[00:01:52] EVERY BOOK HELPS TO FUND THIS
[00:01:54] FREE FESTIVAL AND EVERY PURCHASE
[00:01:57] GIVES YOU A TICKET GOOD FOR AN
[00:01:59] ADULT BEVERAGE AT OUR 5:00 P.M. SPIRITED DISCUSSION AS OUR THINKING.
[00:02:03] I KNOW IT IS EARLY TO BE THINKING ABOUT LUNCH TIME, BUT
[00:02:07] KEEP IN MIND IN ADDITION TO THE
[00:02:10] FINE EATERIES AROUND TOWN, FOOD TRUCKS WILL BE AVAILABLE AT THE
[00:02:15] ROWLANDS CENTER FROM 11:00 TO 2:00 WITH SEATING AT THE
[00:02:18] PAVILION AT THE LEWISTON PUBLIC
[00:02:22] -- LEWIS PUBLIC LIBRARY NEARBY. THERE WILL BE TIME FOR QUESTIONS FOR THE AUTHOR AT THE END OF HIS PRESENTATION. AND FINALLY, PLEASE TURN OFF ALL
[00:02:26] ELECTRONIC DEVICES RECORDINGS AND FLASH PHOTOGRAPHY ARE NOT
[00:02:29] ALLOWED.
[00:02:32] AND NOW IT IS MY PLEASURE TO
[00:02:36] INTRODUCE ANDREW LYTER WHOSE , HOME IS THE SEA AND HISTORY, BOTH OF WHICH HE SHARES GENEROUSLY WITH THE REST OF US.
[00:02:45] THIS BOOK IS CASE IN POINT
[00:02:47] FORMED NOT ONLY BY YEARS OF
[00:02:50] SCHOLARSHIP, BUT ALSO BY ANDREW'S SERVICE ABOARD THE BRITISH BRIGANTINE LORD NELSON.
[00:02:52] THE STORY OFFERS A FRESH
[00:02:57] , IMMERSIVE PERSPECTIVE THAT
[00:02:58] BLENDS METICULOUS RESEARCH WITH PRACTICAL, LIVED EXPERIENCE TO
[00:03:03] BRING THIS CHAPTER OF HISTORY FULLY TO LIFE FOR US.
[00:03:09] THANK YOU, ANDREW. NOW PLEASE HELP ME WELCOME ANDREW TO THE STAGE.
[00:03:13] [APPLAUSE]
[00:03:17] ANDREW: THANK YOU.
[00:03:24] ALL RIGHT.
[00:03:27] CAN EVERYONE HEAR ME ALL RIGHT? LOOK AT THIS FANCY MICROPHONE.
[00:03:31] IT'S LIKE SUNDAY MORNING. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME HERE.
[00:03:37] GETTING OVER A SINUS INFECTION SO BEAR WITH MY NASALLY SOUND.
[00:03:42] THIS IS REALLY COOL. HISTORY BOOK FESTIVAL IS SO
[00:03:45] AMAZING, WE ARE IN OUR NINTH YEAR AND I'M HUMBLED TO BE A
[00:03:49] PART OF IT WITH MY SMALL CONTRIBUTION TO THIS SLATE OF
[00:03:52] ABSOLUTELY AMAZING AUTHORS. TODAY I'M HERE TO SHARE MY BOOK
[00:03:57] , "GOING AMONG ENGLISH SAILORS," RIGHT?
[00:04:01] HMS BELVIDERA, ALL TALKING ABOUT THE AMERICAN SAILORS THAT CREWED ON HER LOWER DECK. AS I WAS INTRODUCED AS A SAILOR, I'LL PROVIDE A LITTLE BIT OF
[00:04:04] CONTEXT BEHIND WHAT BROUGHT THIS BOOK TO FRUITION.
[00:04:08] OH, WRONG WAY. ALL RIGHT, THERE'S ME WITH A
[00:04:12] BEARD. INCREDIBLE.
[00:04:15] SO IN THE SUMMER OF 2019, I HAD
[00:04:17] THE PRIVILEGE TO CREW ABOARD A
[00:04:20] BRITISH BRIGANTINE, THE LORD NELSON, AS THE LONE AMERICAN CREW MEMBER.
[00:04:24] WE SAILED FROM POOLE, ENGLAND THROUGHOUT THE ENGLISH CHANNEL
[00:04:28] UP THE IRISH SEA, ENCOUNTERED A GALE AROUND SCOTLAND THROUGH THE NORTH SEA, AND THEN BACK INTO
[00:04:31] LEITH.
[00:04:34] MY WATCH INCLUDED SAILORS FROM ENGLAND, SCOTLAND, IRELAND, WALES, ALL THE OBVIOUS
[00:04:37] CANDIDATES.
[00:04:42] ONE FORMER MILITARY MAN FROM CROATIA WHO CHAIN SMOKED AND HAD A PEG LEG, LITERALLY. IT WAS AN INCREDIBLE, INCREDIBLY
[00:04:45] DIVERSE CREW.
[00:04:52] THIS IS OLD FISHERMEN FROM WHITBY. YOU HAD GAELIC SPEAKERS FROM SHETLAND.
[00:04:56] THERE WERE BOUGIE YACHTSMEN FROM LONDON.
[00:04:58] BUT THROUGHOUT ALL OF US WE REALLY BECAME CLOSE TO THIS VOYAGE, AND OUR COMMON LINK AS SHIPMATES AND OUR COMMON SHIPBOARD CULTURE KIND OF
[00:05:02] BROUGHT US TOGETHER.
[00:05:05] DESPITE OUR COMMON LINKS TO ONE ANOTHER, I STARTED TO WONDER WHAT WOULD IT BE LIKE TO BE AN
[00:05:09] AMERICAN ON BOARD A BRITISH
[00:05:12] VESSEL HISTORICALLY, RIGHT? LET'S TAKE IT ONE STEP FURTHER.
[00:05:16] WHAT'S IT LIKE TO BE AN AMERICAN ON BOARD A BRITISH VESSEL IN A
[00:05:18] TIME OF WAR?
[00:05:20] BUILD ON THAT. WHAT IT WOULD BE LIKE TO BE ON
[00:05:24] AN AMERICAN ON A BRITISH VESSEL IN A TIME OF WAR FIGHTING AGAINST YOUR OWN COUNTRY, MAYBE
[00:05:27] IN THE TOWN OF LEWIS PERCHANCE, OK.
[00:05:31] SO THIS ALL COINCIDED WITH ME WORKING ON MY MASTER'S PROGRAM
[00:05:34] OVER AT THE UNIVERSITY OF
[00:05:38] PORTSMOUTH IN ENGLAND WHERE I WAS REALLY LOOKING AT THE LOWER DECK AND THE AMERICAN EXPERIENCE IN BRITISH SERVICE, AS WELL AS WITH THE CURATION OF AN
[00:05:42] EXHIBITION AT THE CANNONBALL
[00:05:42] HOUSE.
[00:05:52] SO AS WE ALL KNOW, OR WE'LL QUICKLY LEARN. IN THE FALL OF 1812, THIS MAN ON THE SCREEN, COMMODORE JOHN POOH
[00:05:55] BERESFORD, WAS ORDERED TO ENACT
[00:06:00] A STRICT AND RIGOROUS BLOCKADE OF THE BAY AND RIVER DELAWARE, LARGELY TO STRANGLE THE MERCANTILE TRADE OF
[00:06:03] PHILADELPHIA.
[00:06:14] THIS BLOCKADE BROUGHT WAR TO
[00:06:15] DELAWARE SHORES.
[00:06:19] BY LATE MARCH 1813, THIS WAS IN FULL EFFECT WITH HIS FLAGSHIP,
[00:06:24] THE 74 GUN HMS THIS POITIERS, , THE SCHOONER PAZ, AND OUR VESSEL FOR TODAY, THE 36 GUN FRIGATE, THE HMS BELVIDERA.
[00:06:28] WE'RE ALL DEPLOYED TO THE MOUTH OF THE BAY ABOUT A MILE OFF THE
[00:06:29] COAST OF LEWIS. SO WITH THEIR PROVISIONS AND
[00:06:33] WATER RAPIDLY DEPLETING, BERGER
[00:06:39] -- BERESFORD WROTE A SERIES OF LETTERS TO THE COMMUNITY OF LEWIS, FIRST REQUESTING AND THEN DEMANDING SAID SUPPLIES.
[00:06:43] IF REFUSED, HE THREATENED HE
[00:06:46] WOULD BE, AND I QUOTE, "UNDER
[00:06:51] THE UPMOST NECESSITY OF DESTROYING THE TOWN."
[00:06:59] NOW LEWISTOWNERS, I THINK WE PROBABLY HAVE A LOT OF LEWISTOWNERS HERE TODAY, ARE ALL INTIMATELY FAMILIAR WITH THE STORY OF THE CANNONBALL HOUSE.
[00:07:03] WE HAVE THAT CANNONBALL LODGED IN THE FOUNDATION, AGAIN, IT WAS STOLEN, BUT IT'S BACK.
[00:07:05] THIS IS A TRADITIONAL TALE OF AMERICAN DETERMINATION IN THE
[00:07:09] FACE OF ADVERSITY. TO DEFEAT A COMMON ENEMY, THE
[00:07:11] BRITISH.
[00:07:15] ON APRIL 6TH AND 7TH, THIS COMMUNITY WOULD ENDURE A 22 HOUR
[00:07:17] BOMBARDMENT BY THE ROYAL NAVY,
[00:07:19] AND THE VALIANT DEFENDERS OF
[00:07:22] LEWIS, LARGELY OUT OF WORK PILOTS AND WATERMEN, HAVE BEEN
[00:07:26] BRANDED AS THE PATRIOTIC HEROES
[00:07:27] THAT RESISTED THIS ATTACK.
[00:07:33] THANK YOU. BUT AS WE ALL KNOW, HISTORY IS NEVER AS BLACK AND WHITE AS WE WANT IT TO BE.
[00:07:35] WE ALL WANT TO HAVE A HERO AND A
[00:07:40] VILLAIN. THIS MAKES THINGS EASY FOR US AS WE READ THE PAST, BUT IT'S ALL A MATTER OF PERSPECTIVE. SO WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THESE
[00:07:44] TRADITIONAL CHARACTERS DON'T
[00:07:47] STICK TO THEIR EXPECTED ROLES OR LOYALTIES AND THEY SERVE AGAINST THIS PROUD AMERICAN TOWN OF
[00:07:50] LEWIS?
[00:07:55] SO WHAT THIS TRADITIONAL NARRATIVE OF THE BOMBARDMENT LACKED WAS SHARING THE NUANCED ROLE PLAYED BY THESE AMERICANS SERVING AGAINST THEIR OWN
[00:07:59] REPUBLIC.
[00:08:02] AND THIS BOOK IS THE STORY OF 21
[00:08:03] AMERICAN MEN WHO WOULD DO JUST
[00:08:07] THAT ABOARD THE BELVIDERA.
[00:08:12] 45 AMERICAN MEN WERE ON THIS DAY AND PARTICIPATED IN THE BOMBARDMENT OF LEWIS, BUT WE'RE
[00:08:15] GOING TO FOCUS ON 21 OF THEM
[00:08:16] THROUGH THIS PUBLICATION.
[00:08:24] IF YOU CAN'T READ THAT, THAT'S OK. I CAN'T EITHER. BUT THE HMS BELVIDERA WAS ONE OF THE THREE VESSELS BUT WAS REALLY THE WORKHORSE OF THE BOMBARDMENT.
[00:08:28] SHE WAS ABLE TO GET CLOSER TO THE COMMUNITY AND OVERSAW THE
[00:08:30] FIRING ON LEWIS.
[00:08:41] PART ONE OF THE BOOK WILL FOCUS ON HER SERVICE FROM 1809 TO 1814. AND THIS WILL REALLY SHARE THE WOODEN WORLD WHERE THESE AMERICAN SAILORS LIVED, WORKED,
[00:08:45] AND ALL OF THE CONFLICTS, BATTLES, YOU NAME IT, THAT THEY ENDURED DURING THE WAR OF 1812
[00:08:48] AND THE NAPOLEONIC WARS.
[00:09:02] PART TWO AND THREE STRIVES TO ANSWER, WHY DURING THE WAR OF 1812 WOULD AMERICAN SEAFARERS CONSIDER SAILING UNDER THE
[00:09:08] BRITISH FLAG? THAT'S WHY YOU'RE ALL HERE. WHAT SOCIOECONOMIC FACTORS DROVE THESE MEN INTO FOREIGN SERVICE
[00:09:13] AGAINST THEIR OWN COUNTRY? AND MOST IMPORTANT TO ME, HOW
[00:09:15] DID THIS IMPACT THEIR LIVES AND
[00:09:19] IDENTITY AS AMERICAN MEN? THESE MEN DID NOT CONFORM TO THE
[00:09:23] TRADITIONAL NOTION OF WHAT IT MEANT TO BE A LOYAL AMERICAN.
[00:09:27] THEY PARTICIPATED IN AN INTERNATIONAL BOND AMONGST
[00:09:30] SAILORS BUILT ON COMMON EXPERIENCES AND A DISTINCT MARITIME CULTURE.
[00:09:33] AS SUCH, THEY PLACED THE NEED OF THEIR FRIGATE AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, THEIR SHIPMATES
[00:09:36] FIRST.
[00:09:38] BUT THEY HAD TO RECOGNIZE THEIR AMERICAN CITIZENSHIP AND WHEN WAR CAME TO THE SHORES OF THEIR
[00:09:42] HOME COUNTRY, THEY WERE FORCED TO DECIDE BETWEEN REMAINING LOYAL TO THEIR SHIPMATES OR TO
[00:09:46] THEIR NEW NATION.
[00:09:51] EXCUSE ME FOR A MOMENT.
[00:09:59] THANK YOU. SO IMPRESSMENT, RIGHT, WE ALL THINK IMPRESSMENT IMMEDIATELY. THIS IS WHY THESE FOLKS WERE IN THE ROYAL NAVY.
[00:10:03] IMPRESSMENT WAS WIDELY REGARDED AS A NECESSARY EVIL, BUT IT
[00:10:06] SERVED A CRUCIAL ROLE IN GREAT BRITAIN IN ENSURING THAT HIS MAJESTY'S VESSELS WERE
[00:10:10] ADEQUATELY MANNED, ESPECIALLY IN
[00:10:14] TIMES OF WAR.
[00:10:18] TRANSATLANTIC PORTS, ALL OF THE PORTS ON THE ATLANTIC SPHERE, WERE PLAGUED BY THIS PRACTICE
[00:10:21] WHERE SAILORS WERE FORCED TO
[00:10:35] SERVE IN THE ROYAL NAVY BUT ALSO FORCED TO SERVE IN THE AMERICAN NAVY AND ON PRIVATEERS, WHICH WE'LL UNPACK AT SOME POINT. CONTRARY TO POPULAR
[00:10:39] MISCONCEPTIONS, THE PRESS GANG, THE BODY THAT IMPRESSED MEN, DID NOT TARGET PAUPERS OR VAGRANTS OR LANDSMEN OR FARMERS OR DRUNKS
[00:10:41] IN TAVERNS. SOMETIMES.
[00:10:47] THE TARGET OF THIS WAS ABLE SEAMEN. WE WANTED CAREER SAILORS WHO KNEW THEIR WAY AROUND A VESSEL.
[00:10:50] JUST SO HAPPENED A LOT OF THESE
[00:10:51] GUYS WERE ON AMERICAN SHIPS.
[00:10:57] THIS WAS OBVIOUSLY A LEADING
[00:10:59] CAUSE OF THE WAR OF 1812, 1 OF
[00:11:01] THE BIG THREE THINGS THAT FORCED US TO DECLARE WAR ON GREAT BRITAIN.
[00:11:05] FOR AMERICA TO DECLARE WAR ON
[00:11:09] GREAT BRITAIN. WE NEED TO REMEMBER THAT, WE WERE THE BELLIGERENTS HERE DECLARING WAR ON GREAT BRITAIN.
[00:11:13] , SO IMPRESSMENT WAS REGARDED AS THAT LEADING CAUSE, BUT BOTH
[00:11:22] NATIONS DEFINED CITIZENSHIP IN DIFFERENT TERMS.
[00:11:23] GREAT BRITAIN DEEMED ALL
[00:11:30] ENGLISH-SPEAKING MEN AS BRITISH CITIZENS UNTIL THEY COULD PROVE OTHERWISE. THIS IS RIDICULOUS, RIGHT? AMERICANS IMAGINE CITIZENSHIP VARIOUSLY.
[00:11:33] THIS COULD BE FIXED AT BIRTH.
[00:11:38] BIRTHRIGHT CITIZENSHIP IF YOU WILL. CONFERRED BY THE STATE, OR
[00:11:42] CHOSEN FREELY BY THE INDIVIDUAL.
[00:11:47] BETWEEN 1797 AND THE DAWN OF THE
[00:11:48] WAR OF 1812, 9991 MEN WERE
[00:11:53] PRESSED INTO THE ROYAL NAVY.
[00:11:56] BUT DESPITE THESE STAGGERING
[00:11:58] FIGURES, THE BUILDER DARA -- BELVIDERA ONLY HAD 5 MEN PRESSED
[00:12:04] ONTO HER. ONLY FIVE OF THE 21 MEN. THESE FOLKS ARE JOHN EDWARDS, JAMES GIBSON, AND JOHN CHAMBERLAIN, ALL FROM NEW YORK CITY.
[00:12:08] JAMES MESERAL OF NEW JERSEY AND ISRAEL EATON OF MARBLEHEAD,
[00:12:11] MASSACHUSETTS.
[00:12:17] 16 MEN WILLINGLY VOLUNTEERED TO
[00:12:18] SERVE IN THE ROYAL NAVY.
[00:12:23] SO LET'S LOOK AT THIS VESSEL AS
[00:12:24] A CASE STUDY.
[00:12:28] THREE QUARTERS OF THE AMERICANS ON THIS SHIP VOLUNTEERED TO DO SO. I'D LIKE TO BRIEFLY INTRODUCE
[00:12:33] ONE OF THESE MEN WHO IS FEATURED
[00:12:35] IN THE BOOK PROMINENTLY WHO I
[00:12:38] THINK HIS COMMITMENT TO A LIFE AT SEA SURPASSED ALL OTHER ALLEGIANCES TO HIS FAMILY, TO
[00:12:41] HIS NATION, TO HIS SHIPMATES.
[00:12:49] HE WANTED TO WORK AT SEA. BUT BEFORE I DO SO, I WANT TO QUICKLY RECOGNIZE THE WORLD IN
[00:12:52] WHICH THESE MEN SAILED.
[00:12:57] EVERYONE'S ABLE TO READ THAT UP THERE. THEY SAILED IN A WORLD FRAUGHT WITH WAR AND REVOLUTIONS.
[00:13:00] THIS WAS THE AGE OF ATLANTIC REVOLUTIONS. THE ATLANTIC SPHERE, ALL OF
[00:13:04] THESE COUNTRIES KIND OF SURROUNDING THE ATLANTIC OCEAN, WERE IN A STATE OF CONSTANT
[00:13:07] FLUX.
[00:13:13] NEW REPUBLICS WERE BUILT AND
[00:13:18] MONARCHIES WERE CRUMBLED, AND THESE MEN ONLY KNEW WARFARE, RIGHT? THIS IS THE ENTIRE WORLD THAT THEY EXISTED IN.
[00:13:21] SO THE FELLOW I'D LIKE TO FOCUS ON WHO I FEEL TRULY EMBODIES THE
[00:13:24] NATIONAL AMBIVALENCE OF
[00:13:30] SEAFARERS OF THIS ERA AND HIS
[00:13:32] STEADFAST COMMITMENT TO LIFE AT SEA IS JOHN THOMPSON OF
[00:13:36] PHILADELPHIA.
[00:13:40] JOHN THOMPSON WAS BORN IN PHILADELPHIA AT A TIME THAT THE CITY WAS THE LARGEST CITY AND
[00:13:44] PORT IN THE ENTIRE NATION, WELL, IN THE ENTIRE COLONIES IF YOU
[00:13:45] WILL.
[00:13:51] IN 1770, PHILADELPHIA HAD SURPASSED BOSTON AND NEW YORK.
[00:13:55] THIS IS THE 4TH LARGEST CITY IN THE BRITISH EMPIRE BEHIND ONLY
[00:13:56] LONDON, EDINBURGH, AND DUBLIN. BUT THIS BEAUTIFUL MARITIME
[00:14:00] TRADE CAME TO A SCREECHING HALT ON THE 27TH OF SEPTEMBER 1777.
[00:14:04] AND THIS WOULD BE WITH THE
[00:14:05] BRITISH OCCUPATION OF THE CITY.
[00:14:14] 18,000 BRITISH SOLDIERS MARCHED INTO THE CITY, WITH PATRIOT LEADERS AND 2/3 OF THE
[00:14:17] POPULATION FLEEING.
[00:14:27] AND THE BRITISH WOULD REMAIN IN THE CITY UNTIL JUNE OF 1778. THIS WOULD FOLLOW WITH A SUBSEQUENT BLOCKADE OF THE BAY AND RIVER DELAWARE, WHERE THE
[00:14:30] ROYAL NAVY WOULD STRANGLE PHILADELPHIA ECONOMY FURTHER, BRINGING IT TO A COMPLETE
[00:14:32] STANDSTILL.
[00:14:41] SO THIS IS THE WORLD THAT JOHN THOMPSON WAS BORN INTO. ON THE 8TH OF NOVEMBER 1777, HE WAS BORN IN OCCUPIED PHILADELPHIA TO JAMES AND ELIZABETH THOMPSON.
[00:14:45] HE WAS BAPTIZED FOLLOWING THE BRITISH DEPARTURE ON THE 19TH OF JULY 1779, THE SECOND PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH IN
[00:14:48] PHILADELPHIA.
[00:15:04] I REALLY WANT TO EMPHASIZE THAT HIS ENTIRE CHILDHOOD, HIS EARLY
[00:15:08] YEARS FROM ONE TO SIX WERE SPENT LIVING IN A WAR-TORN CITY.
[00:15:13] I ALSO WANT TO TAKE A MOMENT TO CONSIDER THIS DOCUMENT THAT'S AT THE BOTTOM. THIS IS HIS BAPTISMAL RECORD FROM THE SECOND PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH.
[00:15:17] WILL WE BE QUICK TO LABEL JOHN THOMPSON AND HIS AMERICAN SHIPMATES AS TORIES OR LOYALISTS
[00:15:21] , OR DARE I SAY TRADERS, HEAR
[00:15:27] THIS MAN IS A TWO-YEAR-OLD BOY
[00:15:29] -- DARE I SAY TRAITORS,
[00:15:36] HERE THIS MAN IS A TWO-YEAR-OLD BOY. HE'S LISTED AS THE ONLY SON OF JAMES AND ELIZABETH THOMPSON. HE WAS THEIR PRIDE AND JOY.
[00:15:40] HE WAS JUST THEIR LITTLE SON. HE'S A HUMAN, RIGHT? HE'S A FALLIBLE HUMAN, AND HE'S SOMEONE THAT I REALLY FEEL WE
[00:15:43] SHOULD ALL RELATE TO AS WE
[00:15:46] CONTINUE TO STUDY THESE PEOPLE. I ALWAYS COME BACK TO THIS DOCUMENT, EVEN WHEN JOHN THOMPSON DOES SOME MILDLY DODGY
[00:15:50] ACTS AND HIS SERVICE IS QUESTIONABLE.
[00:15:53] HE'S JUST A HUMAN. HE WAS SOMEONE'S BOY, AND HE WAS A YOUNG MAN WHEN HE WENT TO SEA, SO JUST KEEP THAT IN MIND,
[00:15:56] PLEASE.
[00:16:01] PHILADELPHIA FOLLOWING THE
[00:16:01] TREATY OF PARIS IN 1783,
[00:16:05] MERCANTILE TRADE RESUMED AND THEY WERE A BOOMING CITY AGAIN.
[00:16:10] BETWEEN 1793 AND 1810, THE
[00:16:11] POPULATION DOUBLED WITH 55,000
[00:16:16] INHABITANTS TO 111,000 PEOPLE BY 1810. AND 20% OF THAT LABOR FORCE WERE
[00:16:18] SAILORS.
[00:16:23] SO THIS RAPID MARITIME GROWTH MET UNPRECEDENTED OPPORTUNITIES FOR ASPIRING YOUNG SAILORS SUCH
[00:16:26] AS JOHN THOMPSON.
[00:16:32] ALL RIGHT, THIS IS TOUGH TO SEE, BUT IT'S ALL IN THE BOOK AND IT'S ONE OF MY FAVORITE PARTS,
[00:16:35] SO BEAR WITH ME.
[00:16:37] USING EXTANT HISTORICAL RECORDS,
[00:16:42] WE'RE ABLE TO PINPOINT EXACTLY WHEN JOHN THOMPSON OFFICIALLY OR LEGALLY JOINED THE MARITIME
[00:16:44] LABOR FORCE OF PHILADELPHIA.
[00:16:50] AND THAT'S ON NOVEMBER 16TH, 1805, HE ACQUIRED HIS SEAMEN'S PROTECTION CERTIFICATE.
[00:16:54] HAS ANYONE HEARD OF THESE BEFORE?
[00:16:57] I SEE A HAND OF THOSE THAT HAVE. ALL RIGHT, A FEW THAT I EXPECTED.
[00:17:00] GOOD.
[00:17:05] SO 1796, THERE WAS AN ACT FOR THE PROTECTION OF AMERICAN SEAMEN. THIS WAS PASSED IN OUR CONGRESS SOLELY TO COMBAT IMPRESSMENT,
[00:17:09] RIGHT?
[00:17:18] THIS ACT CREATED PROCEDURES FOR AMERICAN MEN TO PROCURE TANGIBLE PROOF OF THEIR CITIZENSHIP.
[00:17:21] THINK OF A PASSPORT OF SORTS.
[00:17:25] THIS ALSO ENSURED THE ASSISTANCE OF THE AMERICAN GOVERNMENT AT HOME AND ABROAD SHOULD THEY
[00:17:28] BECOME IMPRESSED.
[00:17:33] SO YOU COULD GO TO THE CONSUL, PROVIDE YOUR SIEMEN'S PROTECTION
[00:17:38] -- SEAMEN'S PROTECTION
[00:17:41] CERTIFICATE, AND PROVE THAT YOU'RE AN AMERICAN. AND AMERICAN SEAFARERS NEEDED THIS DOCUMENT TO GO TO SEA BEFORE THEY COULD LEAVE AND
[00:17:45] CLEAR A PORT FOR AN INTERNATIONAL VOYAGE, THE
[00:17:48] CAPTAIN HAD TO PROVE THAT ALL MEMBERS OF THE CREW HAD SEAMEN'S PROTECTION CERTIFICATES.
[00:17:51] AND THESE DOCUMENTS EXIST TODAY
[00:17:54] , AND THEY ARE ABSOLUTELY AMAZING.
[00:17:56] I WILL GET INTO THAT SHORTLY, BUT I'D LIKE TO BRIEFLY READ AN
[00:18:00] EXCERPT FROM THE BOOK TO KIND OF SHARE WHAT I CALL JOHN THOMPSON'S WALK.
[00:18:03] THIS IS HIM TRAVELING FROM HIS HOME, HIS MODEST HOME ON THE
[00:18:05] NORTH RIGHT SIDE OF THE SCREEN,
[00:18:09] GODDARD'S ALLEY, DOWN ALONG THE WATERFRONT, 5 CITY BLOCKS TO GET
[00:18:11] TO THE NOTARY PUBLIC OFFICE OF
[00:18:14] CLEMENT BIDDLE.
[00:18:17] IF ANYONE HAS A BOOK AND CARES
[00:18:21] TO FOLLOW ALONG, IT IS ON PAGE 80. WE'RE GOING TO BE STARTING THE LAST PARAGRAPH.
[00:18:24] ON THIS CRISP AUTUMN MORNING, JOHN THOMPSON WITNESSED THE WARS OF THE YOUNG AMERICAN CAPITAL
[00:18:28] ALIVE WITH NEWS BEING SHARED IN
[00:18:29] A CACOPHONY OF LANGUAGES BY A
[00:18:32] DIVERSE CREW OF SAILORS FROM THE
[00:18:37] U.S., JAMES MONROE WAS RECOMMENDING TO PRESIDENT JEFFERSON AN IMMEDIATE DECLARATION OF WAR WITH SPAIN
[00:18:40] OVER FLORIDA.
[00:18:44] MEANWHILE, FROM ACROSS THE ATLANTIC, REPORTS OF NELSON'S HEROIC VICTORY OVER THE FRENCH FLEET AND HIS DEATH AT THE
[00:18:48] BATTLE OF TRAFALGAR WERE NOW
[00:18:49] MAKING THEIR WAY TO
[00:18:55] PHILADELPHIA'S DOCKS. LOCALLY, THE STANDING MILITIA WAS PREPARING TO DRILL WITH THE
[00:18:58] FIRST TROOP OF LIGHT HORSE SET TO PARADE THAT AFTERNOON NEAR A PERMANENT BRIDGE AT MARKET STREET.
[00:19:01] AS THOMPSON NAVIGATED THIS COMMOTION, HE TURNED ONTO WALNUT STREET AND WALKED TWO BLOCKS TO
[00:19:05] THE OFFICE OF CLEMENT BIDDLE, LOCATED AT 41 AND 43 WALNUT
[00:19:08] STREET.
[00:19:13] I'M GOING TO JUMP AHEAD OF PARAGRAPH. JOHN THOMPSON'S DISTINCT APPEARANCE AS HE SWAGGERED INTO BIDDLE'S OFFICE SUGGESTED PRIOR
[00:19:17] EXPERIENCE AT SEA.
[00:19:23] 5 FT 7 1/2 INCHES TALL. THE DARK-HAIRED THOMPSON WAS SLIGHTLY TALLER THAN THE AVERAGE SAILOR OF HIS PERIOD.
[00:19:27] HE HAD SURVIVED THE YELLOW FEVER EPIDEMIC OF 1793 UNSCATHED,
[00:19:30] WHICH WAS PITTED VERY MUCH WITH
[00:19:31] SMALLPOX IN THE FACE.
[00:19:40] LIKE MANY FROM PHILADELPHIA'S LABORING CLASS, JUMP AHEAD AGAIN. IN ADDITION TO HIS POCK-MARKED COMPLEXION, THOMPSON'S TATTOOED
[00:19:43] BODY SET HIM APART, EXPRESSING HIS PERSONAL BELIEFS AND
[00:19:45] ANNOUNCING PRIDE IN HIS MARITIME
[00:19:51] VOCATION. ACCORDING TO THE CITIZENSHIP DOCUMENT, HE PROCURED AT
[00:19:54] BIDDLE'S OFFICE, HE HAD, AND I
[00:19:59] QUOTE, "THE FIGURE OF A SPREAD EAGLE, STARS, AND FLAG IN
[00:20:02] LETTERS IT 1801 ON HIS LEFT ARM
[00:20:05] IN INDIA INK, ALSO SEVERAL OTHER
[00:20:11] FIGURES ON HIS RIGHT ARM."
[00:20:14] THESE TATTOOS REPRESENTED HIS MEMBERSHIP IN A SEA FRAMING FRATERNITY IN AN EMBLEMATIC OF A
[00:20:17] GROUP IDENTITY SHARED BY
[00:20:27] SAILORS. SO WHEN JOHN THOMPSON STEPPED OUT OF BIDDLE'S OFFICE ONTO FRONT STREET, HIS AMERICAN IDENTITY SEEMED UNASSAILABLE, AND HE WAS READY TO GO TO SEA.
[00:20:30] HERE IS HIS SURVIVING SEAMEN'S PROTECTION CERTIFICATE ON THE SCREEN.
[00:20:33] A CLEMENT BIDDLE WAS ONE OF OVER
[00:20:36] 20 DIFFERENT NOTARY PUBLICS IN
[00:20:39] THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA WHO COULD FURNISH SAILORS WITH
[00:20:43] SEAMEN'S PROTECTION CERTIFICATES. HE COULD PROVIDE THEM WITH THESE
[00:20:45] GOVERNMENT DOCUMENTS. THIS PROCESS WAS VERY WELL REGULATED IN THEORY, BUT IF YOU
[00:20:49] WENT IN WITH A BUDDY TO THE
[00:20:51] NOTARY PUBLIC'S OFFICE AND HE COULD VOUCH THAT YOU WERE BORN
[00:20:55] IN THIS COUNTRY AND YOU WERE
[00:20:59] BORN IN SAID CITY OF
[00:21:01] PHILADELPHIA AND ACT AS YOUR
[00:21:05] LEGAL WITNESS, YOU COULD BE PROVIDED WITH ONE OF THESE DOCUMENTS. DIDN'T REALLY MATTER WHERE YOU
[00:21:09] WERE BORN. THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WAS SORT OF ABUSED AT TIMES, AND SOME SAILORS WOULD COLLECT THESE DOCUMENTS WITH DIFFERENT NAMES AS WELL.
[00:21:12] THERE IS A NORSE BORN SAILOR WHO
[00:21:14] WAS ON THE BELVIDERA WHO HAD
[00:21:18] PROTECTION CERTIFICATES FROM THREE DIFFERENT PORTS IN THIS COUNTRY AS WELL AS ONE FROM
[00:21:23] SWEDEN AND ONE FROM DENMARK. BUT HE GREW UP IN LONDON.
[00:21:27] IT'S RIDICULOUS, THE WORLD WAS
[00:21:30] VERY SMALL.
[00:21:31] GOING FORWARD, ALL AMERICAN MEN
[00:21:34] ARMED WITH DOCUMENTS WITH DON'T HAVE IRREFUTABLE PROOF OF THEIR
[00:21:37] NATIONALITY -- WOULD NOW HAVE
[00:21:45] IRREFUTABLE PROOF OF THEIR NATIONALITY. THIS WAS LEGALLY SUPPOSED TO BE
[00:21:48] ACKNOWLEDGED BY BRITISH NAVAL OFFICERS, AND IT LARGELY WAS. AND THEY WOULD NOW HAVE THE FULL SUPPORT OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT BEHIND THEM, ACKNOWLEDGING, DOCUMENTING, AND
[00:21:52] PROTECTING THEIR TENUOUS STATUS AS AMERICAN CITIZENS. NOW, GENERALLY SAILORS LIKE
[00:21:54] THOMPSON WOULD GET ONE OF THESE
[00:21:58] DOCUMENTS DAYS TO MAYBE A WEEK
[00:22:02] PRIOR TO GOING TO SEA RIGHT BEFORE THEY GET ON A VESSEL ON AN OUTBOUND VOYAGE. THEY NORMALLY GO ALONG WITH A SHIPMATE.
[00:22:06] AND TO THIS DAY, I MEAN, THESE ARE THE BEST RESOURCE FOR DETAILS INTO THE INDIVIDUAL
[00:22:10] SAILOR.
[00:22:16] I MEAN, LOOKING AT THIS DOCUMENT, JOHN THOMPSON PROCURED
[00:22:18] THIS IN EARLY NOVEMBER 1805.
[00:22:22] SO MY NEXT STEP ONCE I FIND THIS
[00:22:23] DOCUMENT IS TO GO TO THE PORT
[00:22:27] RECORDS OF PHILADELPHIA AND LOOK FOR OUTBOUND VOYAGES GIVEN
[00:22:31] WITHIN A MONTH'S SPAN REALLY OF
[00:22:33] WHEN HE GOT THIS DOCUMENT AND LOOK FOR HIS NAME ON THE ROLLS,
[00:22:36] AND THERE'S DESCRIPTIONS COMING
[00:22:37] WITH HIS NAME.
[00:22:41] AND I COULD LOOK AT OTHER SAILORS WHO GOT PROTECTION CERTIFICATES AROUND THAT DATE AND ASSUME THAT THEY MIGHT BE
[00:22:44] HIS SHIPMATES AND FLESH THEM OUT FURTHER. SO THESE ARE ABSOLUTELY AMAZING. I MEAN THROUGH THIS DOCUMENT
[00:22:47] WE'RE ABLE TO LEARN THAT JOHN
[00:22:49] THOMPSON WAS FIVE FOOT SEVEN AND
[00:22:55] A HALF INCHES TALL, HE WAS DARK-HAIRED HE WAS PITTED WITH , SMALLPOX. HE HAD A BIG MOLE ON HIS RIGHT THIGH AND HE WAS HIGHLY
[00:22:59] TATTOOED. I MEAN, THESE ARE DETAILS INTO THE SOCIAL HISTORY OF THESE MEN THAT SPEAK.
[00:23:03] SO LOUDLY AS TO WHO THEY WERE AS
[00:23:09] PEOPLE AND CAN KIND OF HELP US CREATE A HUMAN THAT'S A BIT MORE
[00:23:12] RELATABLE THAT WE CAN ALMOST PICTURE AS WE READ, RIGHT?
[00:23:14] SO THE CAREERS OF THESE MEN LIKE
[00:23:18] JOHN THOMPSON PRIOR TO JOINING THE BELVIDERA WERE JUST AS DIVERSE AS THEIR BACKGROUNDS.
[00:23:22] THESE MEN HAD EXPERIENCE IN THE MERCHANT SERVICE.
[00:23:26] THEY WERE IN THE U.S. NAVY. THEY SERVED ABOARD FRENCH PRIVATEERS, BRITISH PRIVATEERS,
[00:23:29] SPANISH PRIVATEERS.
[00:23:34] AND THEN THEY JOINED THE ROYAL
[00:23:39] NAVY BY VARIOUS MEANS. TWO DAYS AFTER ACQUIRING HIS
[00:23:42] PROTECTION CERTIFICATE, JOHN THOMPSON WOULD JOIN THE CREW OF
[00:23:47] THE BRIG NANCY. THIS IS A MERCHANT VESSEL OUT OF
[00:23:49] PHILADELPHIA, AND SHE SAILED FOR
[00:23:54] ST. CHRISTOPHER, RETURNING WITH A CARGO OF THE GREATEST EXPORT OF THE INDIES AT THIS TIME, AND
[00:23:57] MOLASSES, MARCH OF 1806. FROM THAT TIME UNTIL 1807, JOHN THOMPSON WOULD CONTINUE TO HAVE
[00:24:01] A HOME IN PHILADELPHIA UP ON
[00:24:02] GODDARD VALLEY.
[00:24:06] THIS WAS A SMALL WORKING CLASS COMMUNITY.
[00:24:08] UNTIL 1807 WHEN HE DISAPPEARS
[00:24:11] FROM PHILADELPHIA RECORDS, HE NO LONGER HAS HIS HOME AND HE
[00:24:15] LEAVES THE CITY. THIS IS WHERE WE START
[00:24:18] SCRATCHING OUR CHIN TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHERE DOES HE GO, AND
[00:24:25] FOR MOST SAILORS, YOU WILL NEVER KNOW. THIS IS THE END.
[00:24:28] BUT OVER THE FOLLOWING TWO YEARS, JOHN THOMPSON WOULD SERVE ABOARD A FRENCH PRIVATEER.
[00:24:32] IT WAS ON A FRENCH PRIVATEER.
[00:24:37] NOW THIS IS A TIME WHEN FRANCE WAS ENGAGED IN WAR WITH GREAT BRITAIN, BUT WE HAD A REALLY
[00:24:40] LOOSE PEACE AT THIS TIME WITH
[00:24:41] THESE TWO NATIONS, VERY LOOSE,
[00:24:44] BUT ON THIS PRIVATEER HE JOINED
[00:24:47] IN 1808 FOLLOWING JEFFERSON'S
[00:24:50] DISASTROUS, AND THIS IS MY OPINION, BUT I THINK YOU COULD ALL SHARE THIS OPINION,
[00:24:54] DISASTROUS EMBARGO ACT.
[00:24:58] WITH NON-IMPORTATION AGAINST THE BRITISH AND AGAINST THE FRENCH
[00:25:00] AND THEN AGAINST THE BRITISH AGAIN FAILING, JEFFERSON ASKED
[00:25:04] CONGRESS FOR AN EMBARGO ACT IN
[00:25:05] DECEMBER OF 1807.
[00:25:09] AND THIS ACT HAD DRASTIC RAMIFICATIONS ON THE SEAFARING
[00:25:11] POPULATION. HIS GOAL WAS TO PROTECT AMERICAN
[00:25:15] SAILORS AND COERCE THE BRITISH, BUT IT PROVED TO BE A MASSIVE
[00:25:16] DISASTER.
[00:25:27] AND HAD A REALLY DRAMATIC IMPACT ON THAT SEAFARING POPULATION. PHILADELPHIA'S SHIPPING WAS
[00:25:30] REDUCED TO 20% OF ITS PRE-EMBARGO ACT LEVELS.
[00:25:34] ROUGHLY 8700 SOLDIERS WERE OUT OF WORK. THESE GUYS BEGAN TO SEEK OUT
[00:25:37] OPPORTUNITIES ABROAD. THERE'S NEWSPAPER ARTICLES FROM
[00:25:41] PHILADELPHIA, FROM NEW YORK CITY, FROM BOSTON OF SAILORS LEAVING IN DROVES FOR CANADA, FOR THE INDIES, AND ACROSS THE
[00:25:45] ATLANTIC.
[00:25:53] THIS DROVE SEAMEN INTO FOREIGN SERVICE. I DON'T THINK IT'S A COINCIDENCE
[00:26:00] THAT THIS COINCIDED WITH THE TIME THOMPSON LEFT THE CITY. HE DID NOT HAVE THE OPPORTUNITIES THAT HE ONCE HAD IN THIS BOOMING AMERICAN CITY,
[00:26:04] AND HE LOOKED FOR IT ELSEWHERE. HE WANTED TO CONTINUE TO WORK IN HIS VOCATION, EVEN IF THAT MEANT
[00:26:06] ON A FRENCH PRIVATEER.
[00:26:11] FOLLOWING HIS TIME ABOARD THIS
[00:26:14] FRENCH PRIVATEER, AND UNFORTUNATELY I'VE NOT BEEN ABLE TO FLESH OUT ANY OF THE DETAILS
[00:26:18] OF WHAT THIS WAS LIKE, BUT I WILL FIND THIS BECAUSE IT WILL
[00:26:21] KEEP ME UP AT NIGHT, HE WOULD BRIEFLY SERVE ABOARD THE HMS MERCURY.
[00:26:26] THIS IS HIS FIRST BRITISH VESSEL HE SERVED ABOARD.
[00:26:29] HE VOLUNTEERED AT THIS TIME TO
[00:26:32] SERVE ON THE MERCURY, AND HE DID SO AND WAS RATED AS AN ABLE SEAMAN, SO HE HAD THE TOP RATING
[00:26:35] OF THE LOWER DECK.
[00:26:38] SO THE CAPTAIN OF THIS VESSEL RECOGNIZED HIS MARITIME
[00:26:42] PROFICIENCY, HIS PAST SKILL SET, AND WANTED TO ACKNOWLEDGE HIM
[00:26:44] ACCORDINGLY. SO HE WAS GIVEN A GOOD BERTH ON
[00:26:48] THIS SHIP, A DECENT PAY, AND HAD A FAIRLY DECENT EXISTENCE, I
[00:26:50] WOULD GATHER.
[00:26:53] SO AFTER A VERY SHORT TIME ON THE MERCURY, JOHN THOMPSON WOULD
[00:26:57] VOLUNTEER, ONCE AGAIN VOLUNTEER TO JOIN THE HMS BELVIDERA, OUR
[00:26:59] 36 GUN FRIGATE.
[00:27:04] AND HE WOULD SERVE ON THE BELVIDERA THROUGHOUT HER ENTIRE
[00:27:08] SERVICE ON THE WAR OF 1812'S NORTH AMERICAN STATION.
[00:27:12] SO THE VESSEL ARRIVED OVER HERE
[00:27:13] IN 1811 AND LEFT IN 1814.
[00:27:18] JOHN THOMPSON WAS ON THIS SHIP
[00:27:24] AS AN ABLE SEAMAN FOR EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THOSE ENGAGEMENTS. SO PRIOR TO LEAVING GREAT
[00:27:27] BRITAIN, IT ENGAGED IN A BATTLE OF SILDA. THIS IS OFF THE COAST OF NORWAY,
[00:27:30] WHERE HE HELPED CAPTURE TWO PRIVATEERS, TWO DANISH PRIVATEERS, THE BALDUR AND THE
[00:27:34] THOR. SHE CAME ACROSS THE ATLANTIC
[00:27:37] CARRYING THE NEW ADMIRAL FOR THE NORTH AMERICAN STATION TO BERMUDA.
[00:27:41] THEY HUNTED FRENCH PRIVATEERS UP AND DOWN THE COAST.
[00:27:45] HE WAS ENGAGED IN THE FIRST
[00:27:46] ENGAGEMENT OF THE WAR OF 1812
[00:27:50] WHEN THE USS PRESIDENT WAS ATTACKING THE BELVEDERE AND SHE ESCAPED INTO HALIFAX.
[00:27:54] HE'D LATER PURSUE OLD IRONSIDES,
[00:27:57] THE USS CONSTITUTION, TRYING TO CAPTURE HER, AND THEN IN 1813,
[00:28:01] FEBRUARY OF 1813, HE WOULD LEAVE THE CHESAPEAKE AND COME TO THE
[00:28:03] DELAWARE BAY.
[00:28:05] WHERE HE WOULD BE A PART OF THE
[00:28:09] BLOCKADING FORCE AND LATER BE
[00:28:15] BEHIND THE GUNS FIRING TO 800 500 SHOTS ON THE COMMUNITY OF LEWIS.
[00:28:21] JOHN THOMPSON, AFTER RETURNING
[00:28:27] TO ENGLAND, BEING PAID OFF, SO HE RECEIVED HIS MONEY AND WAS FREE TO LEAVE THE BELVEDERE, WOULD BRIEFLY JOIN THE HMS
[00:28:30] PRINCE. ABOARD THE PRINCE, HE WAS
[00:28:32] PROMPTLY DISCHARGED.
[00:28:36] FROM THE ROYAL NAVY ON THE 3RD OF DECEMBER 1814, AND THE ONLY
[00:28:40] LINE OF THIS SAYS HE WAS
[00:28:40] UNSERVICEABLE.
[00:28:45] THE SURGEON'S LOGS, SURGEON'S
[00:28:46] JOURNALS PROVIDE A BIT MORE ON
[00:28:53] EACH VESSEL WAS REQUIRED TO KEEP ONE OF THESE.
[00:28:57] AT THIS POINT IN HIS LIFE, HE
[00:28:59] WAS DEEMED TO BROKEN OR WORN OUT.
[00:29:03] THEY GOT WHAT THEY NEEDED FROM HIM AND THREW HIM BACK IN SOCIETY AT THE RIPE OLD AGE OF
[00:29:07] 38 YEARS OLD.
[00:29:11] JOHN THOMPSON COMPLETELY DISAPPEARS FROM THE HISTORICAL
[00:29:13] RECORD IN GREAT AND THE UNITED
[00:29:17] STATES, JUST LIKE THOUSANDS OF SAILORS THAT CAME BEFORE HIM AND WOULD COME AFTER HIM.
[00:29:22] OVER THE COURSE OF WRITING THIS
[00:29:26] BOOK, THIS IS A LONG TOUCH AND GO PROCESS, FIVE YEARS HERE AND THERE.
[00:29:32] OVER THE COURSE OF THIS, I BECOME INTIMATELY FAMILIAR WITH
[00:29:34] ALL OF THESE AMERICAN MEN THAT
[00:29:39] SERVED ON THE BELVEDERE AND REFERRED TO THEM AS SHIPMATES.
[00:29:42] THIS IS A TERM OF ENDEARMENT FOR
[00:29:45] PEOPLE YOU ARE WILLING TO GO TO
[00:29:49] WAR WITH. I REFER TO THEM IN THIS REGARD.
[00:29:59] THESE MEN OF THE BELVEDERE'S
[00:30:02] LOWER DECK ARE OFTEN LOST TO HISTORY, BUT AS I GOT TO KNOW THEM, I FELT IT MY OBLIGATION
[00:30:05] AND PRIVILEGE TO BRING THEIR
[00:30:09] STORIES TO LIFE, PROVIDE A SOCIAL HISTORY OF THESE MEN THAT
[00:30:11] WENT AMONG THE ENGLISH SAILORS, TO HELP US UNDERSTAND THE
[00:30:15] COMPLEXITY OF THE WAR OF 1812
[00:30:16] AND ADDRESS QUESTIONS OF
[00:30:20] NATIONAL AGENTS. THIS BOOK IS NOT HER STORY. REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR TIME TODAY.
[00:30:24] -- THIS BOOK IS THEIR STORY.
[00:30:29] REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR TIME TODAY. [APPLAUSE]
[00:30:38] >> THANK YOU FOR THAT RIVETING DISCUSSION.
[00:30:42] NOW, WE WILL PROCEED WITH OUR QUESTION-AND-ANSWER PERIOD.
[00:30:45] WE ASK IF YOU HAVE A QUESTION PLEASE RAISE YOUR HAND, AND WE
[00:30:50] HAVE MICROPHONES. WE HAVE ASSISTANTS WHO WILL COME
[00:30:53] AROUND AND ANSWER QUESTIONS FOR YOU, AND I ALSO ASKED, WHEN YOU
[00:30:57] ASK YOUR QUESTION, I KINDLY REQUEST IF YOU SPEAK LOUDLY INTO
[00:31:01] THE MICROPHONE SO ALL OF US CAN HEAR YOU AS WELL AS OUR FRIENDS
[00:31:04] VIA C-SPAN WHO WILL BE WATCHING THIS PRESENTATION LATER ON.
[00:31:13] >> THAT WAS VERY INTERESTING.
[00:31:14] HOW MANY OR WHAT PERCENTAGE
[00:31:18] WOULD YOU SAY OF THE TOTAL MEN ON BOARD THESE BRITISH SHIPS
[00:31:24] WERE FOREIGN PRESSMAN?
[00:31:29] ANDREW: GREAT QUESTION. BELVEDERE HAD A CREW OF 231 SAILORS.
[00:31:33] AROUND 37 OF THESE MEN, SO WE
[00:31:38] COULD SAY ON AVERAGE, 25% OF THE
[00:31:40] CREW HAS BEEN IMPRESSED.
[00:31:42] LARGELY, THESE MEN PRESSED TO
[00:31:46] SERVE ARE EITHER AMERICAN OR IRISH.
[00:31:49] THE IRISH WERE THE TARGET OF THE BRITISH THROUGHOUT THIS PERIOD.
[00:31:51] THEY WERE EASY TARGETS TO DRAG
[00:31:54] ON THEIR SHIP, LOOSELY CLAIM
[00:31:59] THEY ARE BRITISH CITIZENS. ALL THESE VESSELS BEFORE THEY
[00:32:03] CAME TO A STATION THAT THEY COULD BE AT WAR WITH.
[00:32:07] BEFORE THEY CAME TO THE NORTH
[00:32:09] AMERICAN STATION, CAPTAINS GAVE
[00:32:12] THEIR CREW THE OPTION TO BE
[00:32:16] TRANSFERRED TO ANOTHER VESSEL RATHER THAN SERVE AGAINST THEIR OWN COUNTRY. THE GUYS THAT STAYED REALLY WERE
[00:32:19] NOT BOTHERED BY FIGHTING AGAINST THEIR OWN NATION.
[00:32:23] THERE ARE SAILORS FEATURED IN THIS BOOK WHO ARE INVOLVED IN
[00:32:27] THE FIRST ENGAGEMENT AND THEN SAID, I CANNOT DO THIS.
[00:32:31] I NEED TO BE DISCHARGED.
[00:32:32] AND THEY BECAME PRISONERS OF
[00:32:36] WAR. YOU SEE A LARGE CONTINGENT OF AMERICAN MEN AND IRISH MEN
[00:32:40] PRESSED ALONG WITH BRITISH ABLE SEAMAN.
[00:32:44] I WOULD SAY ROUGHLY ABOUT A
[00:32:46] QUARTER OF THE SAILORS ON BOARD
[00:32:48] AN AVERAGE REDDISH VESSEL OF
[00:32:52] THIS SIZE WERE PRESSED.
[00:32:56] >> IT IS NOTED IN THAT DEPICTION
[00:33:00] THAT IT IS MULTIRACIAL.
[00:33:03] AS I UNDERSTAND IT, ENGLAND DID NOT GET RID OF SLAVERY UNTIL
[00:33:07] 1831. BEFORE THEN, WERE THESE MEN SLAVES ON BOARD?
[00:33:12] ANDREW: NEVER. >> WHERE THEY IMPRESSED? DID THEY VOLUNTEER?
[00:33:20] ANDREW: THE TRADE ITSELF WAS
[00:33:22] ABOLISHED PRIOR TO THAT, BUT
[00:33:24] DURING THE WAR OF 1812 AND DURING THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION,
[00:33:28] DUNMORE'S PROCLAMATION DURING
[00:33:30] THE REVOLUTION -- LORD DUNMORE
[00:33:33] WAS THE ROYAL GOVERNOR OF VIRGINIA. HE ISSUED A PROCLAMATION IN 1774
[00:33:38] ALLOWING ENSLAVED PEOPLE TO COME TO THE BRITISH SERVICE, AND THEY
[00:33:41] WOULD BE FREED AND GIVEN AN
[00:33:44] OPPORTUNITY TO SERVE THE CROWN, AND YOU SEE DROVES OF ENSLAVED
[00:33:48] INDIVIDUALS FLOCKING TO THE CHESAPEAKE AT THAT TIME.
[00:33:53] EARL BATHURST HAD A DECLARATION,
[00:33:54] BRITISH EARL, A SIMILAR SORT OF
[00:33:57] CHALLENGE, AND YOU SEE FORMERLY
[00:34:01] ENSLAVED PEOPLE EVEN ON THE DELAWARE BAY FLEEING, SEIZING
[00:34:04] THEIR OWN FREEDOM BY JOINING THE BRITISH NAVY.
[00:34:08] THEY ARE RATED ON BOARD THESE
[00:34:15] VESSELS JUST LIKE ANY OTHER SAILOR, ABLE SEEMEN -- ABLE
[00:34:19] SEAMEN.
[00:34:23] YOU DO NOT SEAMAN'S RACE REALLY DISCUSSED, EVEN AFRICAN-AMERICAN SAILORS.
[00:34:30] I NEVER KNEW THAT THERE WERE PEOPLE OF COLOR UNTIL I FOUND A
[00:34:34] PRISON RECORD THAT DESCRIBED THEM.
[00:34:39] YOUR SOURCE FOR THE CREW, THEY ARE LARGELY COLORBLIND AT THIS POINT.
[00:34:43] YOU ARE NOT GOING TO SEE ANYONE'S RACE. YOU'RE GOING TO SEE AMERICA,
[00:34:47] BALTIMORE. THAT'S IT. THAT'S ALL I HAVE. AS FAR AS INDIGENOUS PEOPLE
[00:34:51] SEARCHING FOR BRITISH VESSELS,
[00:34:54] YOU DO SEE SOME, BUT AGAIN, THESE FOLKS ARE NOT DESCRIBED IN
[00:34:58] DEPTH. THERE WAS A -- GOD, I CANNOT REMEMBER THE SHIP.
[00:35:02] 1794, THERE WAS A SERIES OF PAINTINGS.
[00:35:05] IF YOU LOOK ON THE SCREEN, YOU
[00:35:07] SEE -- YEAH, IT'S ON THE
[00:35:10] LEFT-HAND SIDE. THE FELLOW IN THE MIDDLE THERE.
[00:35:14] HE SERVED ON A BRITISH VESSEL,
[00:35:16] AND THAT PAINTING IS A MAN FROM
[00:35:20] VIRGINIA. HE IS DESCRIBED IN AMERICAN DOCUMENTS AS HAVING A YELLOW
[00:35:23] COMPLEXION, WHICH COULD MEAN A
[00:35:26] MILANO INDIVIDUAL -- WHICH COULD
[00:35:30] MEAN A MULATTO INDIVIDUAL,
[00:35:35] AFRICAN-AMERICAN. THERE'S HENCE LIKE THAT, BUT IT'S NOT REALLY BROADCAST
[00:35:39] ANYWHERE.
[00:35:46] >> COULD YOU BRIEFLY EXPLAIN THE REALITY OF HOW IMPRESSMENT
[00:35:50] WORKED AS OPPOSED TO THE IMAGE I HAVE IN MY MIND FROM MOVIES?
[00:35:57] ANDREW: OF COURSE. IMPRESSMENT 80% OF THE TIME
[00:36:00] HAPPENED AT SEA.
[00:36:01] LET'S SAY I'M ON A BRITISH PRESS TENDER.
[00:36:04] A SMALLER VESSEL DEPLOYED BY A
[00:36:08] BIGGER SHIP.
[00:36:12] I WILL SEE AN AMERICAN MERCHANT SHIP COMING BY, MAY BE SAILING
[00:36:15] INTO THE THAMES, AND I'M GOING
[00:36:16] TO STOP HER, AND I WILL DEPLOY A
[00:36:21] CREW OF 12 LOYAL SAILORS ONTO
[00:36:25] THIS AMERICAN VESSEL AND ASKED TO SEE THEIR PROTECTION CERTIFICATES.
[00:36:32] THEY DON'T HAVE ANY, THEY MUST BE RICH.
[00:36:35] I WILL BRING THEM TO A HOLD FOR LARGER TENDER IN LONDON AND PUT
[00:36:39] THEM ON ANOTHER VESSEL WHERE THEY ARE GIVEN AN OPPORTUNITY TO VOLUNTEER.
[00:36:43] YOU VOLUNTEER, YOU WILL GET
[00:36:47] WAGES. YOU MIGHT GET A BONUS, AND YOU MIGHT BE ACKNOWLEDGED FOR YOUR
[00:36:51] EXPERIENCE AT SEA. IF YOU FIGHT THAT, YOU ARE A STUBBORN INDIVIDUAL.
[00:36:55] THEN YOU ARE PRESSED, AND YOU
[00:36:57] WILL BE INSULTED AS A LANDSMAN
[00:37:02] WITH NO MONEY, NO WAGES, BUT
[00:37:04] THESE LARGELY HAPPENED AT SEA.
[00:37:08] YOU DID HAVE THE IMPRESSED SURFACE ACT THAT ESTABLISHED 21
[00:37:10] PRESSING PORTS, SO I THINK MAJOR
[00:37:14] PORT CITIES, THIS ARRAY OF PORT
[00:37:21] CITIES WHERE YOU HAVE A
[00:37:23] RENDEZVOUS, SO THINK OF A TAVERN
[00:37:26] WHERE THEY WOULD HANG OUT AND TRY TO GET VOLUNTEERS, BUT WHEN THEY COULD NOT REACH THEIR
[00:37:32] QUOTAS, THEY COULD GO INTO SAID
[00:37:33] TAVERN AND FIND THEN THEY USED
[00:37:36] THE SEA, BUT IT'S NOT
[00:37:41] NECESSARILY BREAKING DOWN THE WALLS.
[00:37:47] IT WAS NORMALLY DONE AT SEA AND
[00:37:50] WAS JUST TARGETING PROFICIENCY.
[00:37:54] HERE WE GO.
[00:38:00] IT IS PROBLEMATIC, OF COURSE,
[00:38:05] WHEN YOU HAVE AN IMPRESSED WHO ALREADY HAVE PROTECTION
[00:38:09] CERTIFICATES AND THEY ARE LOST OR DISCARDED OR THEY HAVE COPIES
[00:38:12] AT CUSTOMS HOUSES, SO THEY CAN
[00:38:15] PROVE THAT THEY ACTUALLY HAVE ONE. LONG ANSWER. I APOLOGIZE.
[00:38:22] >> IF A BRITISH SHIP WAS CAPTURED BY THE AMERICANS, HOW
[00:38:26] WERE THE AMERICANS SERVING ON BOARD TREATED?
[00:38:31] ANDREW: THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.
[00:38:34] OFTENTIMES, YOU WOULD SEE
[00:38:38] BRITISH VESSELS GETTING CAPTURED BY AMERICAN SHIPS. THESE MEN WOULD NORMALLY BE
[00:38:43] PRISONERS FOR A BRIEF TIME BUT THEN DISCHARGE AT A LOCAL PORT.
[00:38:45] IT WAS NOT WORTH THE TROUBLE, REALLY.
[00:38:50] AMERICAN VESSELS ARE NOT LOOKING TO DRIVE HOME A STRONG MESSAGE.
[00:38:57] IT IS ALL A MATTER OF HAVING
[00:39:02] ENOUGH BODIES TO CREW THESE SHIPS.
[00:39:05] THAT WAS THE BIGGEST PROBLEM BETWEEN BOTH SIDES.
[00:39:08] I HATE TO SAY IT, AMERICAN VESSELS PRESSED MEN, TOO.
[00:39:13] I HAVE A COLLEAGUE WHO IS WORKING ON A MASSIVE STUDY OF
[00:39:16] JACOB JONES, WHO WAS ONE OF
[00:39:19] LEWIS' HOMETOWN HEROES. GREAT HERO OF THE WAR OF 1812.
[00:39:26] HIS FAMOUS BATTLE WAS THE WASP AND FROLIC ENGAGEMENT.
[00:39:29] HE PRESSED MEN IN NORFOLK,
[00:39:31] VIRGINIA, TO JOIN HIS CREW.
[00:39:34] I FOUND THIS DOCUMENT LIKE, OH, NO, OUR HEROES, BUT IT'S
[00:39:37] EVERYWHERE, YOU KNOW?
[00:39:41] >> DURING YOUR RESEARCH, EITHER
[00:39:43] ON THIS SHIP OR ANOTHER, DID YOU COME ACROSS ANYBODY THAT WAS
[00:39:47] WITH EITHER THE MERCHANT MARINES
[00:39:51] AND/OR THE MERCENARIES?
[00:39:54] AND WHY OR WHY NOT? ANDREW: THE MERCHANT MARINE
[00:39:58] CONCEPT, JOHN THOMPSON WAS THAT. OUR MODERN-DAY MERCHANT SERVICE
[00:40:01] AS WE SEE IT TODAY JUST EVOLVED
[00:40:05] FROM MEN SERVING ON MERCHANT SHIPS, SO YOU SEE A LOT OF MEN
[00:40:07] WHO HAD MERCHANT SERVICE, YES.
[00:40:11] AS FAR AS MERCENARIES GO, I THINK YOU CAN CALL MOST OF THESE
[00:40:14] GUYS MERCENARIES.
[00:40:17] THEY WANT TO WORK IN THEIR
[00:40:21] VOCATION MORE THAN ANYTHING.
[00:40:23] THE PRIVILEGE TO HAVE AN OPINION ON WHAT FLAG HANGS ON THE
[00:40:29] QUARTERDECK DOES NOT SEEM TO CONCERN THE MUCH AS LONG AS THEY HAVE ENOUGH MONEY TO SUPPORT
[00:40:32] THEMSELVES, SUPPORT THEIR FAMILIES, OR THEY ARE ABLE TO
[00:40:37] WORK IN THE ONLY VOCATION THEY HAVE EVER KNOWN, SO I THINK THE
[00:40:41] TERM MERCENARY COULD LOOSELY BE
[00:40:43] USED TWO KIND OF APPLY TO MOST OF THESE INDIVIDUALS.
[00:40:47] YOU HAVE SOME REALLY DEVOUT,
[00:40:49] PATRIOTIC FOLKS -- I'M TALKING
[00:40:51] TO PERCENT OF THESE SAILORS --
[00:40:54] AND YOU CAN TELL THROUGHOUT THEIR ENTIRE LIVES THAT THEY ARE STEADFASTLY DETERMINED TO FIGHT
[00:40:59] FOR THEIR COUNTRY, AND ONE OF THEM IS FEATURED IN THE BOOK.
[00:41:02] HE WAS PRESSED INTO THE ROYAL NAVY, AND THIS LIT A FIRE.
[00:41:09] >> YOU USE THE PHRASE "SEAMEN OF
[00:41:16] THE LOWER DECK" A COUPLE OF TIMES. FOR THOSE OF US UNFAMILIAR WITH
[00:41:19] WHAT SHIPS WERE LIKE IN THESE DAYS, COULD YOU GIVE US A FEEL
[00:41:22] FOR WHAT THE SHIPS WERE LIKE AND WHAT THE LIFE WAS LIKE?
[00:41:26] ANDREW: CERTAINLY. THE LOWER DECK -- LET ME FIND A
[00:41:30] PICTURE HERE.
[00:41:32] I CAN GET ONE OF THE BELVEDERE.
[00:41:35] YOU CAN SEE IT ON THE LEFT-HAND SIDE, IT IS BEING CHASED AWAY.
[00:41:38] WHEN YOU HEAR THE "LOWER DECK, THIS IS A TERM USED TO DESCRIBE
[00:41:43] YOUR AVERAGE SAILORS, NON-OFFICERS.
[00:41:46] YOU WILL OFTEN SEE THE TERM FOR
[00:41:50] CASTLEMAN OR FALK TILLMAN USED AS WELL.
[00:41:57] WHEN THAT SLEEP OR LIVE IN FRONT
[00:41:58] OF THE FOUR MASKED ARE -- OF THE
[00:42:10] FOREMAST ARE FORECASTLEMEN,
[00:42:23] FOXHOLEMEN. YOU MIGHT BE USED TO HELP HOLD LINES AND MEDIAL TASKS.
[00:42:26] YOU ARE AN ORDINARY SEE A MAN --
[00:42:31] SEAMAN.
[00:42:37] THE LOWER DECK WAS THE VAST MAJORITY OF THESE SAILORS, A
[00:42:40] QUICK GLIMPSE INTO THEIR LIVES. YOUR ENTIRE EXISTENCE REVOLVED
[00:42:43] AROUND YOUR WATCH.
[00:42:46] YOU ARE NORMALLY ON FOR ON, FOR
[00:42:50] OFF WATCH CYCLE, SO HALF THE
[00:42:51] CREW WOULD BE ASLEEP, THE OTHER HALF WORKING THE SHIP, SAILING
[00:42:55] THE VESSEL, AND WITHIN THOSE WATCHES, THEY ARE BROKEN UP INTO
[00:42:59] SMALLER MESSES, AND YOUR MESS IS
[00:43:02] NORMALLY ABOUT EIGHT MEN. THIS IS THE CREW THAT WILL SERVE
[00:43:06] THE GUN TOGETHER.
[00:43:08] THEY WILL HAVE HAMMOCKS IN A SIMILAR LOCATION.
[00:43:10] THEY WILL EAT EVERY MEAL TOGETHER. THEY WILL OFTEN TRAVEL FROM SHIP
[00:43:14] TO SHIP TOGETHER. THAT IS NOT UNCOMMON.
[00:43:18] WE HAVE THREE PRESSED MEN, CURIOUSLY.
[00:43:24] ALL NEW YORKERS. THREE OF THEM HAVE BEEN ON THREE
[00:43:28] DIFFERENT VESSELS TOGETHER, SO THESE FELLOWS -- I WAS ABLE TO FIND WHERE THEY LIVED IN NEW
[00:43:32] YORK. THEY WORK IN THE MERCHANT
[00:43:35] SERVICE TOGETHER AND TRAVELED TO DIFFERENT SHIPS TOGETHER.
[00:43:38] THEY HAVE THAT TYPE -- TYPE
[00:43:43] BOND. THAT REALLY DROVE THESE
[00:43:46] LOYALTIES MORE THAN ANYTHING. THE MODERN SAYING, AND I BRING
[00:43:48] IT UP HERE, IS SHIP, SHIPMATE,
[00:43:53] SELF PEER YOUR LOYALTY AND DEVOTION IS TO YOUR VESSEL,
[00:43:56] ENSURING THE SAFETY, NEXT TO YOUR SHIPMATE, AND LAST,
[00:44:01] YOURSELF, AND THAT IS HOW THESE MEN REALLY APPLIED EVEN IN THE 18TH AND 19TH CENTURY.
[00:44:05] YES? >> I'M CURIOUS ABOUT YOUR
[00:44:09] SERVICE OR YOUR TIME ABOARD THE SHIP.
[00:44:12] OBVIOUSLY, IT WAS A LEARNING
[00:44:16] EXPERIENCE. DID YOU HAVE TO MAKE A CONTRIBUTION TO DO THAT OR WERE YOU PAID DURING THAT TIME?
[00:44:21] ANDREW: THIS WHEN I WAS ABLE TO SERVE AS A BOATSWAIN'S MATE.
[00:44:25] I WAS ABLE TO WORK IN A CAPACITY ASSISTING THE SHIP.
[00:44:29] THIS WAS NOT WHAT I HAD TO PAY FOR. YOU HAVE GUESSED CREW
[00:44:31] OPPORTUNITIES WHERE YOU CAN PAY. YOU HAVE SOME VOYAGES WHERE YOU
[00:44:35] CAN GET PAID, AND LARGELY ON TALL SHIPS TODAY, YOU ARE A
[00:44:39] VOLUNTEER.
[00:44:42] YOUR TIGHT CREW, YOUR TIGHT OFFICER CORPS, THESE FOLKS ARE
[00:44:44] NORMALLY PAID FOLKS, BUT THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE CREW IS
[00:44:48] VOLUNTEERING TO BE THERE AND IN DOING SO WILL FOLLOW A TRAINING
[00:44:51] REGIME, AND I VOLUNTEERED TO DIP
[00:44:55] MY TOE INTO THIS WORLD, BUT IT
[00:44:59] WAS A REALLY NEAT PROGRAM, PART OF THE SAILING TRUST OUT OF
[00:45:03] BRITAIN AND ALSO IN NEW ZEALAND AND AUSTRALIA WHERE THEY HELPED
[00:45:08] TEACH DISABLED FOLKS HOW TO SAIL
[00:45:11] , AND THEY WERE SET UP SO PEOPLE WOULD HAVE THAT EXPERIENCE WHO
[00:45:14] NORMALLY WOULD NOT, HENCE MY
[00:45:17] CROATIAN SHIPMATE HAVING THAT EXPERIENCE AS A CREW MEMBER.
[00:45:20] IT WAS PRETTY AMAZING. HE WAS A PRODUCT OF THIS PROGRAM.
[00:45:26] GRIFFIN, WELCOME HOME. GREAT SEEING YOU.
[00:45:31] >> YOU TALK ABOUT THE FRATERNAL
[00:45:32] CULTURE ON VESSELS AND HOW
[00:45:35] PEOPLE OF THE CN PEOPLE OF THE
[00:45:37] BOAT AND PEOPLE OF THE NATION LESS SO.
[00:45:41] WHEN WOULD YOU ARGUE THAT BEGINS TO APPEAR WITHIN THE CULTURE OF
[00:45:45] SAILING? IS THAT AN OLD IDEA THAT HAS
[00:45:49] CARRIED ON INTO THE MODERN DAY
[00:45:52] IN THIS SENSE OR SOMETHING DEVELOPING WITHIN THIS COLONIAL
[00:45:56] 1700S ERA?
[00:45:59] ANDREW: GREAT QUESTION.
[00:46:00] I THINK YOU SEE IN THIS 18TH
[00:46:05] CENTURY, 19TH CENTURY AS NAVIES START TO FORMALIZE A LITTLE MORE.
[00:46:08] IN THIS COUNTRY, OUR MARITIME TRADE HAS BEEN THE FOUNDATION OF
[00:46:13] THIS COUNTRY SINCE ITS INCEPTION, SO YOU DO HAVE A
[00:46:16] DISTINCT, SHARED CULTURE AMONGST SEAFARERS, THAT SEAFARING
[00:46:20] FRATERNITY I TALKED ABOUT,
[00:46:21] LOOKING AT A LEVEL OF RESPECT
[00:46:25] FOR FOLKS THAT WORK IN A SIMILAR
[00:46:27] VOCATION, YOU KNOW, THE MODERN
[00:46:30] RING KNOCKER, IDIOM OF ACADEMY
[00:46:33] GRADS, HAVE A BOND AMONGST ONE ANOTHER.
[00:46:38] YOU SEE THAT KIND OF THROUGH LINE DOES NOT MATTER WHAT NATION YOU ARE SERVING WITH.
[00:46:43] THERE'S A LEVEL OF RESPECT AND UNDERSTANDING.
[00:46:44] I THINK SAILING LARGELY AT THIS
[00:46:48] TIME IS AN INTERNATIONAL LANGUAGE. I CANNOT REMEMBER THE NAME OF
[00:46:51] THE SAILOR, BUT HE TALKED ABOUT
[00:46:53] JUST ALL OF THE DIVERSE
[00:46:58] LANGUAGES SPOKEN ON THE LOWER
[00:46:58] DECK AND HOW YOU COULD
[00:47:04] UNDERSTAND SOME SAILORS, AND
[00:47:07] SOME SPOKE ONLY IRISH GAELIC, SOME ONLY SPANISH, BUT THEIR
[00:47:10] COMMON LANGUAGE WAS THE FUNCTION OF SAILING A SHIP AND THEY HAD
[00:47:13] THAT LEVEL OF RESPECT, SO KIND OF AN INCLUSIVE FRATERNITY OF
[00:47:17] FELLOW SAILORS.
[00:47:24] I DO KNOW THAT ANSWERED, BUT I HOPE.
[00:47:28] >> LIKE THERE'S THREE PEOPLE -- EDWARDS, GIBSON, CHAMBERLAIN,
[00:47:32] SAILED ON MANY BRITISH SHIPS BUT
[00:47:34] WERE FROM NEW YORK.
[00:47:37] WERE THEY ABLE AT THE END OF
[00:47:39] THEIR LIVES FOR THE END OF THEIR
[00:47:44] SEAFARING DAYS TO COME BACK TO THE UNITED STATES AND PICK UP THEIR CITIZENSHIP OR WERE THERE ANY QUESTIONS?
[00:47:49] ANDREW: YEAH, THEY WERE.
[00:47:51] THEY HAD NO PROBLEMS DOING THAT. YOU WOULD THINK THEY WOULD BE
[00:47:55] BRANDED ANY OTHER TIME AS A TRAITOR, BUT THE LINES BETWEEN
[00:47:58] SERVICES WERE SO THIN, AND SO
[00:48:02] MANY SAILORS HOPPED ABOARD
[00:48:05] DIFFERENT VESSELS AND DIFFERENT
[00:48:07] NATIONS' FLAGS, ANOTHER FELLOW WHO IS FEATURED IN THE BOOK,
[00:48:11] ELIAS HUTCHINS, FROM MODERN-DAY KENNEBUNKPORT IN MAINE.
[00:48:15] HE SERVED OVER THE COURSE OF HIS
[00:48:18] LIFE ON 48 DIFFERENT SHIPS.
[00:48:19] HE WAS IN THE BRITISH NAVY,
[00:48:22] UNITED STATES NAVY, PART -- PRIVATEERS, MERCHANT SHIPS, AND
[00:48:26] HE WENT BACK HOME AFTER ALL OF THIS.
[00:48:28] EVERYBODY THOUGHT HE WAS DEAD. HIS MOTHER DID NOT RECOGNIZE HIM.
[00:48:32] HE DID NOT HAVE A DOLLAR TO HIS NAME, BUT HE WAS ABLE TO COME
[00:48:36] BACK HOME AFTER ALL OF THAT. I DON'T KNOW IF IT NECESSARILY
[00:48:38] GET LOST IN THE WEEDS, BUT THESE
[00:48:41] PEOPLE ARE THE LOWER SORT, THE
[00:48:45] LABORING PEOPLE, NOT REALLY THE
[00:48:46] TARGET OF A FEDERAL AGENDA TO
[00:48:52] EXCLUDE FROM RETURNING AND RE-ACCLIMATING TO SOCIETY
[00:48:54] FOLLOWING THE WAR.
[00:49:00] >> THANK YOU.
[00:49:08] I JUST WANTED TO TAKE AN
[00:49:11] OPPORTUNITY TO THANK YOU ALL FOR ATTENDING THIS MORNING AND FOR
[00:49:15] YOUR VERY INSIGHTFUL QUESTIONS.
[00:49:17] IF YOU HAVE A MOMENT, WE REQUEST THAT YOU PLEASE TAKE OUR SURVEY.
[00:49:21] YOU CAN FIND THE SURVEY ELECTRONICALLY IN THE PROGRAM
[00:49:25] GUIDE IF YOU FOLLOW THE QR CODE
[00:49:27] OR THERE IS ACTUALLY A PAPER INSERT THAT YOU CAN FILL OUT AND
[00:49:31] HAND IT IN AS YOU EXIT.
[00:49:33] ANDREW WILL KINDLY SIGN BOOKS.
[00:49:37] PLEASE SUPPORT OUR LOCAL BOOKSTORES.
[00:49:44] COPIES OF HIS BOOK AND OTHERS ARE AVAILABLE OUTSIDE IN THE
[00:49:47] HALLWAY WHICH, AGAIN, ANDREW BE SIGNING MOMENTARILY.
[00:49:51] PLEASE JOIN US AT 10:34 OUR NEXT SESSION BETWEEN JOSEPH WITH HIS
[00:49:54] BOOK "NOTHING MORE OF THIS LAND:
[00:49:58] COMMUNITY, POWER, AND THE SEARCH FOR INDIGENOUS IDENTITY.
[00:50:01] PLEASE REMEMBER TO TAKE ALL OF YOUR BELONGINGS WHEN YOU EXIT
[00:50:04] AND DISPOSE OF YOUR TRASH. PLEASE JOIN ME IN THANKING
[00:50:08] ANDREW FOR HIS VERY INSIGHTFUL PRESENTATION.
[00:50:12] >> FRIDAY, A BIPARTISAN DISCUSSION ON THE MIDTERM
[00:50:15] ELECTIONS FEATURING FORMER
[00:50:19] COLORADO DEMOCRATIC SENATOR TIM WIRTH AND OR CONNECTICUT REPUBLICAN CONGRESSMAN CHRIS
[00:50:22] SHAYS, JOINED BY DASHA BURNS.
[00:50:27] THEY WILL ALSO DISCUSS THE CURRENT STATE OF CONGRESS AND
[00:50:29] THE IMPACT OF MONEY IN POLITICS. WATCH FRIDAY AT 7:00 P.M. AND
[00:50:34] 10:00 P.M. EASTERN AND PACIFIC ONLY ON C-SPAN.
[00:50:42] >> WATCH "AMERICA'S BOOK CLUB,"
[00:50:45] C-SPAN'S BOLD, ORIGINAL SERIES
[00:50:47] SUNDAY WITH OUR GUEST, NATIONAL JOURNALIST AND AUTHOR, LOIS ROMANO.
[00:50:52] HER BEST-SELLING BOOK ON MARY TODD LINCOLN REVEALS THE LIFE OF
[00:50:56] A FIRST LADY WHO NAVIGATED PERSONAL TURMOIL AND PUBLIC SCRUTINY DURING ONE OF THE MOST
[00:51:00] CONSEQUENTIAL MOMENTS IN U.S. HISTORY.
[00:51:03] LOIS ROMANO SERVED AS AN EDITOR,
[00:51:05] COLUMNIST, AND REPORTER FOR "THE
[00:51:08] WASHINGTON POST" AND POLITICO
[00:51:10] AND IS BEST KNOWN FOR HER IN-DEPTH COVERAGE OF AMERICAN POLITICAL CULTURE.
[00:51:16] SHE JOINS OUR HOST, RENOWNED AUTHOR AND CIVIC THEATER DAVID
[00:51:19] RUBENSTEIN AT THE HISTORIC
[00:51:23] FORD'S THEATRE IN WASHINGTON, D.C., FOR A LIVELY DISCUSSION ABOUT MISCONCEPTIONS OF MARY
[00:51:28] TODD LINCOLN AND THE PRESIDENCY OF ABRAHAM LINCOLN. DAVID: YOU DECIDED TO WRITE A
[00:51:31] BOOK ABOUT MARY TODD LINCOLN. WHY DID YOU DECIDE TO WRITE A
[00:51:36] BOOK, AND WHAT WAS YOUR CONCERN ABOUT HER REPUTATION THAT LED
[00:51:38] YOU TO WRITE THIS BOOK?
[00:51:41] >> HER BIOGRAPHY WAS NOT WELL-ROUNDED.
[00:51:44] SHE WAS JUDGED BY SOME OF HER FLAWS, AND NO ONE SHOULD BE
[00:51:49] JUDGED BY ONLY HER FLAWS. FROM THE BEGINNING, I FELT SUCH
[00:51:52] COMPASSION, AND BY THE END, I
[00:51:56] JUST FELT SO DEEPLY FOR HER. DURING THE COU H