CSPAN3 — Ben Rhodes All We Say
20260822 130100 UTC
1222 transcript segments
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[00:00:00] NIXON FOUNDATION, SIR, WHAT IS YOUR QUESTION?
[00:00:03] I JUST WANT YOU TO TAKE BACK TO TO THAT IS THAT THE AMERICAN
[00:00:08] NIXON OR NIXON CIVICS ACADEMY IS
[00:00:13] USING HIS WORK IN OUR TEACHING OF OUR YOUNGSTERS.
[00:00:15] WHAT CIVICS IS ALL ABOUT AND HOW OUR GOVERNMENT WORKS.
[00:00:20] AND WE'RE GOING TO USE THAT LONG AFTER WE'RE ALL GONE.
[00:00:24] FANTASTIC. I KNOW HE'D BE HAPPY TO HEAR THAT THERE IS A GENTLEMAN.
[00:00:28] THANK YOU.
[00:00:29] BOOK TV CONTINUES NOW TELEVISION
[00:00:32] FOR SERIOUS READERS.
[00:00:36] ABSOLUTELY DELIGHTED TO BE
[00:00:38] HOSTING BEN RHODES, WHO'S HERE TO TALK ABOUT HIS NEW BOOK, ALL
[00:00:42] WE SAY THE BATTLE FOR AMERICAN
[00:00:46] IDENTITY A HISTORY OF 15
[00:00:50] SPEECHES. IN THIS, THE 250TH YEAR SINCE
[00:00:53] AMERICA'S INDEPENDENCE, BEN HAS
[00:00:56] TAKEN A VERY INTERESTING AND
[00:00:58] ILLUMINATING APPROACH TO THE
[00:01:00] QUESTION OF WHAT IT MEANS TO BE AN AMERICAN.
[00:01:04] THAT'S A QUESTION, OF COURSE,
[00:01:06] THAT WE AS A NATION HAVE BEEN
[00:01:08] DEBATING PRETTY MUCH SINCE THE FOUNDING.
[00:01:10] AND AS BEN NOTES, IT REMAINS A
[00:01:14] DEEPLY DIVIDING MATTER.
[00:01:17] TODAY, OUR AMERICANS, FOR
[00:01:19] INSTANCE, DEFINED AS SOME IN THE
[00:01:22] CURRENT CURRENT ADMINISTRATION AND THEIR SUPPORTERS WOULD
[00:01:26] CONTEND BY A PARTICULAR HERITAGE, GEOGRAPHY AND WAY OF
[00:01:31] LIFE ROOTED IN CONSERVATIVE AND
[00:01:34] CHRISTIAN VALUES, OR ARE
[00:01:36] AMERICANS DEFINED AS BEN AND MANY OTHERS MAINTAINED BY A
[00:01:40] BELIEF IN A SET OF PRINCIPLES INHERITED FROM THE NATION'S FOUNDING?
[00:01:45] A CREED THAT VALUES EQUALITY,
[00:01:47] DIVERSITY, INCLUSIVE LIBERTY AND
[00:01:51] TOLERANCE AND TRACING. THE LONG TIME ARGUMENT OVER
[00:01:56] AMERICAN IDENTITY, BEN TELLS THE STORY OF 15 SPEECHES.
[00:01:59] SOME I CONIC, OTHERS NOT
[00:02:03] GENERALLY REMEMBERED. THE SPEECHES AREN'T INTENDED TO
[00:02:07] REPRESENT THE GREATEST IN OUR
[00:02:09] HISTORY, BUT EACH NONETHELESS IS
[00:02:11] A CONSEQUENTIAL.
[00:02:14] THEY RANGE FROM BEN FRANKLIN'S CLOSING ARGUMENT AT THE
[00:02:18] CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION OF
[00:02:20] 1787 IN FAVOR OF COMPROMISE THROUGH ALEXANDER STUART STEVENS
[00:02:26] CASE FOR WHITE SUPREMACY. AS THE CORNERSTONE OF THE
[00:02:30] CONFEDERACY. LINCOLN'S SECOND INAUGURAL ADDRESS.
[00:02:33] MARY LISA'S POPULIST BLAST
[00:02:35] AGAINST WALL STREET AND 1891 AND
[00:02:39] MARTIN LUTHER KING JR'S DREAM OF
[00:02:41] TRUE EQUALITY RIGHT UP TO DONALD TRUMP'S STRONGMAN.
[00:02:45] ASSUMPTION OF POWER AT HIS
[00:02:49] SECOND INAUGURATION, BEN LOOKS NOT ONLY AT THE WORDS THAT WERE
[00:02:53] SPOKEN, BUT ALSO AT THE PERSON
[00:02:56] BEHIND THEM AND THE MOVEMENT THAT GAVE RISE TO THEM.
[00:02:59] PLUS, WHAT THE SPEECHES CONVEYED
[00:03:01] ABOUT AMERICAN IDENTITY.
[00:03:04] BEN HIMSELF KNOWS A LOT ABOUT
[00:03:07] SPEECHWRITING. HE SERVED AS CHIEF SPEECHWRITER AND DEPUTY NATIONAL SECURITY
[00:03:10] ADVISOR IN THE WHITE HOUSE UNDER BARACK OBAMA.
[00:03:13] THESE DAYS, HE CO-HOSTS THE
[00:03:15] FOREIGN POLICY PODCAST POD POD
[00:03:17] SAVE THE WORLD OFFERS ANALYSIS
[00:03:19] ON MSNBC'S NOW AND CONTRIBUTES
[00:03:22] OPINION PIECES TO THE NEW YORK TIMES.
[00:03:25] HIS PREVIOUS BOOKS INCLUDE THE
[00:03:27] WORLD AS IT IS, WHICH WAS A
[00:03:29] MEMOIR OF HIS TIME IN THE WHITE HOUSE.
[00:03:32] AND AFTER THE FALL, WHICH EXPLORED HOW THE WORLD HAS COME
[00:03:34] TO BE SUCH AN ILLIBERAL,
[00:03:38] AUTHORITARIAN MESS IN
[00:03:41] CONVERSATION WITH BEN WILL BE ONE OF AMERICA'S MOST PROMINENT POLITICAL REPORTERS.
[00:03:45] SUSAN PAGE, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF OF USA TODAY.
[00:03:48] SHE'S ALSO A TALENTED
[00:03:51] BIOGRAPHER, HAVING PROFILED BARBARA BUSH AND THE MATRIARCH
[00:03:55] NANCY PELOSI. AND MADAM SPEAKER AND BARBARA
[00:03:57] WALTERS IN THE RULE BREAKER. HER MOST RECENT BOOK, PUBLISHED
[00:04:01] LAST MONTH, IS THE QUEEN AND HER PRESIDENTS ABOUT QUEEN
[00:04:07] ELIZABETH, THE SECOND IS RELATIONSHIPS WITH QUITE A FEW
[00:04:09] AMERICAN PRESIDENTS. SO, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, PLEASE
[00:04:13] JOIN ME IN WELCOMING BEN RHODES AND SUSAN PAGE.
[00:04:29] YOU GOT QUITE A CROWD.
[00:04:32] IT'S KIND OF A HOMETOWN THING, EVEN THOUGH I DON'T LIVE HERE ANYMORE.
[00:04:36] YEAH, I KIND OF STACKED IT. IT LOOKS LIKE A BOOK BUYING CROWD TO ME. WELL, LET'S HOPE SO, GUYS.
[00:04:40] YEAH. YEAH. SO IT'S SUCH AN HONOR TO BE HERE
[00:04:43] TO TALK ABOUT YOUR WONDERFUL NEW
[00:04:46] BOOK ABOUT THE DEBATE OVER
[00:04:49] AMERICAN IDENTITY, ABOUT WHAT AMERICAN IDENTITY IS, WHO GETS
[00:04:53] TO BELONG AND WHO GETS TO DECIDE
[00:04:55] AS FRAMED BY THESE 15 NOTABLE
[00:05:00] SPEECHES. AND I WONDER WHY. WHY DID YOU DO DECIDE TO USE
[00:05:04] SPEECHES AS THE FRAME FOR THIS BOOK? SO FIRST OF ALL, IT'S GREAT TO
[00:05:08] BE AT THIS WONDERFUL BOOKSTORE, WHICH I WAS JUST SAYING I GHOST WROTE.
[00:05:12] MY FIRST BOOK DOWNSTAIRS IS IN THE COFFEE SHOP AND IT'S GREAT
[00:05:16] TO BE WITH SOMEONE WHO I'VE BEEN A SOURCE FOR. IT'S ALWAYS A KIND OF
[00:05:19] INTERESTING ROLE REVERSAL TO BE
[00:05:22] INTERVIEWED IN FRONT OF PEOPLE.
[00:05:24] SO THE GERM OF THIS WAS DURING MY LAST BOOK, WHICH IS VERY
[00:05:27] APTLY DESCRIBED WHEN I WAS WRITING ABOUT AUTHORITARIANS.
[00:05:30] ONE OF THE THINGS I NOTICED IS
[00:05:32] THAT PUTIN, TRUMP, XI JINPING,
[00:05:35] VIKTOR ORBAN, THE PEOPLE I WAS WRITING ABOUT, YES, THEY HAD AN
[00:05:39] AUTHORITARIAN PLAYBOOK THAT THEY DEPLOYED TO GET POWER, BUT THEY
[00:05:42] ALSO HAD A FIXATION ON HISTORY
[00:05:45] AND MAKING THE STORY OF THE COUNTRIES THAT THEY AIMED TO
[00:05:49] CONTROL, ESSENTIALLY A PREQUEL TO THEIR ASSUMPTION OF POWER.
[00:05:52] AND SO I GOT INTERESTED IN THIS IDEA OF GOING BACK THROUGH
[00:05:56] HISTORY TO UNDERSTAND THE MOMENT THAT WE'RE IN NOW.
[00:05:59] AND FRANKLY, I WANTED TO ESCAPE
[00:06:02] THE PRESENT BY GOING INTO THE
[00:06:04] PAST, WHICH IS ANOTHER REASON TO PICK UP THE BOOK.
[00:06:08] BUT I'M NOT AN HISTORIAN AND I'M SELF-AWARE ABOUT THAT.
[00:06:11] BUT AS A SPEECHWRITER AND I THINK THERESA PLOD IS HERE,
[00:06:15] WHO'S ONE OF MY COLLEAGUES, I USED TO BEFORE I WOULD WRITE A
[00:06:20] SPEECH, I WOULD TRY TO READ
[00:06:22] OTHER SPEECHES FROM HISTORY THAT
[00:06:24] COULD INFORM THAT SPEECH.
[00:06:26] SO IF WE WERE GOING TO GERMANY,
[00:06:29] I'D READ SPEECHES AT KENNEDY AND
[00:06:31] REAGAN GAVE IN BERLIN OR OBAMA WAS GOING TO ADDRESS CIVIL RIGHTS.
[00:06:34] I'D READ KING AND DOUGLASS AND I
[00:06:37] LEARNED IN THAT PROCESS HOW THE
[00:06:40] ISSUES THAT WE TALK ABOUT TODAY HAVE THESE DEEP ROOTS THAT HAVE
[00:06:44] BEEN DEBATED AND TALKED ABOUT
[00:06:46] AND DISCUSSED THROUGH AMERICANS WHO WERE TRYING TO PERSUADE OR
[00:06:50] MOBILIZE THROUGHOUT OUR HISTORY.
[00:06:51] IN ESSENCE, SPEECHES ARE THE
[00:06:55] QUINTESSENTIAL EXPERIENCE OF HISTORY IN THE PRESENT TENSE.
[00:06:58] WHEN YOU READ A SPEECH, YOU SEE
[00:07:01] HOW PEOPLE WERE CHANNELING MOVEMENTS INTO WORDS AT THE TIME, HOW PEOPLE WERE TRYING TO
[00:07:05] BUILD MOVEMENTS FOR CHANGE. AT THE TIME.
[00:07:08] AND SO I THOUGHT THAT THEY COULD PROVIDE A UNIQUE VANTAGE POINT
[00:07:10] TO UNDERSTAND THIS DEBATE THAT
[00:07:13] WE'VE BEEN HAVING ABOUT IDENTITY.
[00:07:15] WHO IS IN AMERICA AND WHO GETS
[00:07:17] TO DECIDE THAT QUESTION?
[00:07:19] FROM OUR FOUNDING TO TODAY.
[00:07:21] AND SO THE GOAL AND TOOK ME A
[00:07:23] YEAR OF READING HUNDREDS OF
[00:07:26] SPEECHES TO CURATE 15 THAT
[00:07:28] THROUGH WRITING ABOUT THE LIVES
[00:07:30] OF THE PEOPLE, THE MOVEMENTS THAT PRODUCED THEM, WHAT WAS
[00:07:33] GOING ON IN AMERICA AT THE TIME, THE SETTING FOR THE SPEECH AND WHAT KIND OF MOMENTUM CAME OUT
[00:07:37] OF THE SPEECH. I COULD TELL A SINGLE VOLUME
[00:07:41] STORY OF AMERICA AND THE DEBATE WE'VE BEEN HAVING OVER IDENTITY
[00:07:43] FROM THE BEGINNING. SO A DEBATE THAT LASTED 250
[00:07:47] YEARS AND NOT OVER YET.
[00:07:51] CLEARLY, AND JUST 15 SPEECHES AND AS BRAD SAID, SOME OF THEM
[00:07:55] ARE FAMOUS SPEECHES. I HAVE A DREAM FOR LINCOLN'S SECOND INAUGURAL.
[00:08:00] SOME OF THEM ARE SPEECHES BY PEOPLE I HAD NEVER HEARD OF.
[00:08:03] AND I WONDER HOW YOU WENT ABOUT
[00:08:05] LOCATING THESE SPEECHES,
[00:08:07] ESPECIALLY THE OBSCURE ONES AND WHETHER IT WAS HARD TO GET IT
[00:08:12] DOWN TO 15. IT WAS. AND I DIDN'T START WITH THAT NUMBER IN MIND.
[00:08:15] I DIDN'T KNOW HOW MANY WAS GOING TO BE. AND AND I KNEW I DIDN'T WANT A
[00:08:19] GREATEST HITS ALBUM. THIS IS NOT AN ANTHOLOGY.
[00:08:23] THIS IS AN ATTEMPT TO TELL ONE NARRATIVE HISTORY OF THE COUNTRY
[00:08:26] THROUGH THESE SPEECHES. AND I STRUGGLED. I HAD THIS BIG LIST AND THE
[00:08:29] THING THAT UNLOCKED IT FOR ME,
[00:08:31] SUSAN, IS I FOUND THIS SPEECH BY
[00:08:34] BENJAMIN FRANKLIN. THAT WAS THE CLOSING ARGUMENT AT
[00:08:37] THE CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. AND FRANKLIN, FIRST OF ALL, AS A
[00:08:41] WONDERFUL PERSON TO SPEND TIME WITH IN HIS LIFE, HE CHANGED HIS MIND.
[00:08:45] HE WAS A PRAGMATIST. HE WAS AGAINST INDEPENDENCE UNTIL HE WAS FOR IT.
[00:08:49] HE WAS FOR SLAVERY UNTIL HE WAS AGAINST IT.
[00:08:53] AND IN THAT SPEECH AT THE CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, IT'S
[00:08:56] LITERALLY THE LAST WORDS SPOKEN TO THE DELEGATES BEFORE THEY'RE
[00:09:00] ASKED FOR THEIR SIGNATURE. AND FRANKLIN HAD BEEN SCARRED
[00:09:03] BECAUSE IN 1764, HE HAD PROPOSED
[00:09:05] A UNION OF THE COLONIES BASED ON
[00:09:08] THE UNION OF THE IROQUOIS
[00:09:10] NATIONS THAT HAD NASU
[00:09:14] CONFEDERATION THAT WOULD BEEN REJECTED BY THE COLONIAL ASSEMBLY.
[00:09:17] SO HE WAS WORRIED ABOUT REJECTION OF RATIFICATION.
[00:09:20] AND SO HIS GOAL WAS UNANIMITY
[00:09:24] AND IN HIS SPEECH HE SAYS NOTHING ABOUT THE CONTENT OF THE CONSTITUTION.
[00:09:27] IT'S QUITE REMARKABLE. THE ENTIRE SPEECH IS ABOUT THE
[00:09:30] VIRTUE OF COMPROMISE ITSELF. AND HIS CORE ARGUMENT IS
[00:09:34] ESSENTIALLY WE REJECT THE IDEA THAT ANYBODY IS INFALLIBLE.
[00:09:38] THAT'S WHAT GOT US INTO TROUBLE IN EUROPE. WE HAD TO LEAVE EUROPE BECAUSE
[00:09:40] THERE WAS A KING OR A RELIGIOUS ORDER THAT SAID IT HAD ALL THE ANSWERS.
[00:09:45] IN THIS ROOM THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT, YES, HAVE DIFFERENT
[00:09:48] WISDOM, BUT THEY ALSO HAVE DIFFERENT PREJUDICES IN DIFFERENT INTERESTS. AND THE ONLY WAY WE'RE GOING TO
[00:09:52] HAVE A COUNTRY IS IF WE CAN GET BEHIND AN IMPERFECT DOCUMENT.
[00:09:55] THIS IS THIS MAN WAS NO ORIGINALIST. HE WAS SAYING THIS DOCUMENT IS
[00:09:59] IMPERFECT, BUT IT'S THE BEST WE CAN EXPECT.
[00:10:03] AND WHAT I REALIZE IS THAT THAT COMPROMISE MADE THE UNION POSSIBLE.
[00:10:07] BUT IT ALSO SET IN MOTION SENSE AND MOTION THE ENTIRE BATTLE FOR
[00:10:11] IDENTITY TO COME BECAUSE THEY COMPROMISED ABOUT REALLY BIG
[00:10:14] THINGS SLAVERY, THE NATURE OF
[00:10:17] CITIZENSHIP, WHO WOULD HAVE FULL ACCESS TO THE FRANCHISE?
[00:10:22] WHAT IS THE NATURE OF IMMIGRATION? DIFFERENT STATES HAD DIFFERENT IMMIGRATION POLICIES, AND THAT'S
[00:10:25] WHAT WE'VE BEEN FIGHTING ABOUT EVER SINCE.
[00:10:27] AND IF YOU JUST TAKE THE FIRST
[00:10:29] FIVE, I WANTED TO SHOW A REPRESENTATIVE SAMPLE OF
[00:10:34] DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES ON THAT DEBATE.
[00:10:36] SO THE SECOND SPEECH IS BY
[00:10:38] SENECA CHIEF RED JACKET REJECT DING, A WHITE MISSIONARY WHO HAS
[00:10:43] COME TO CONVERT THE SENECA BY MAKING ACTUALLY A CASE FOR
[00:10:47] PLURALISM. I THOUGHT YOU PEOPLE WERE FOR RELIGIOUS FREEDOM. WE WANT TO WORSHIP THE WAY WE
[00:10:51] WANT TO WORSHIP. THEN MARIA STUART, ANOTHER MORE
[00:10:53] OBSCURE PERSON WHO WAS THE FIRST
[00:10:56] BLACK WOMAN, FIRST WOMAN TO ADDRESS A MIXED RACE, MIXED
[00:11:00] GENDER AUDIENCE IN THIS COUNTRY IN 1830. BOSTON GIVING A SPEECH FOR
[00:11:04] ABOLITIONISM FOR WOMEN'S RIGHTS
[00:11:06] AND FOR BLACK AND FEMALE EMPOWERMENT THROUGH EDUCATION,
[00:11:10] LIGHTING THE SPARK. THIS IS BEFORE THE SENECA FALLS.
[00:11:13] THIS IS BEFORE FREDERICK DOUGLASS, YOU KNOW, PLANTING
[00:11:17] SEEDS, A SPEECH THAT KIND OF PLANT SEEDS THAT GROW IN OTHER PEOPLE'S VOICES.
[00:11:21] THEN I HAVE ALEXANDER STEPHENS,
[00:11:23] THE VICE PRESIDENT CONFEDERACY, LITERALLY SAYING THE QUIET PART
[00:11:26] OUT LOUD AND MAKING A CASE FOR WHITE SUPREMACY IS THE CORNERSTONE OF THE CONFEDERACY.
[00:11:30] AND THEN LINCOLN'S SECOND INAUGURAL SEEKING TO RESOLVE THE
[00:11:33] DEBATE AND SAYING THIS IS A WAR OF EMANCIPATION.
[00:11:37] FRANKLY, ALL THE SACRIFICES THAT
[00:11:39] WE'VE BEEN THROUGH, WE DESERVE FOR THE CRIME OF AMERICAN SLAVERY.
[00:11:42] BUT WE NOW HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO BUILD A JUST AND LASTING PEACE THROUGH A MULTIRACIAL
[00:11:47] DEMOCRACY. THE WHOLE ARGUMENT IS IN THOSE FIRST FIVE AND THE SPOILER ALERT
[00:11:52] IS THAT ARGUMENT KEEPS REPEATING
[00:11:55] THROUGH EACH OF THE NEXT TEN SPEECHES AS WELL. SO THE SPEECH YOU INCLUDE FROM
[00:11:59] FROM YOUR FORMER BOSS, FROM
[00:12:01] PRESIDENT OBAMA WAS NOT THE 24
[00:12:03] CONVENTION SPEECH WHICH BROUGHT US ALL TO OUR FEET.
[00:12:06] I REMEMBER BEING IN THE PRESS STAND FOR THAT SPEECH. DID NOT LISTENING THAT MUCH AT
[00:12:10] THE START, BUT LISTENING VERY CLOSELY. BY THE END, IT WAS SUCH A GREAT SPEECH.
[00:12:14] IT'S NOT ONE OF HIS INAUGURAL ADDRESSES. YOU CHOOSE WHAT WAS IMMEDIATELY
[00:12:19] DUBBED THE RACE SPEECH.
[00:12:21] WHY DID YOU INCLUDE THAT ONE?
[00:12:25] SO TO PULL BACK THE CURTAIN A LITTLE BIT, I ORIGINALLY DIDN'T
[00:12:30] ORIGINALLY BE. I PICKED BARACK OBAMA'S FAVORITE
[00:12:32] SPEECH, WHICH IS THE SPEECH HE
[00:12:35] GAVE IN 2015 AT SELMA ON THE
[00:12:38] ANNIVERSARY OF BLOODY SUNDAY, WHICH IS A VERY TRIUMPHALIST SPEECH.
[00:12:42] I MEAN, ONE OF THE BASIC ARGUMENTS OF THE BOOK IS THAT
[00:12:44] ESSENTIALLY AMERICA CAN BE THOUGHT OF AS A DEBATE, A
[00:12:48] COMPETITION, EVEN A CONFLICT BETWEEN TWO STORIES, A STORY OF
[00:12:52] AN INHERITED EXCEPTIONALISM.
[00:12:54] AND I BEGIN THE PROLOG WITH J.D. VANCE ESSENTIALLY SAYING AMERICA
[00:12:58] IS NOT A CREED. IT'S NOT THE DECLARATION OF
[00:13:02] INDEPENDENCE. AMERICA IS A PARTICULAR PEOPLE
[00:13:04] FROM A PARTICULAR PLACE AT WITH A PARTICULAR WAY OF LIFE, WHICH
[00:13:08] TO ME IS GIVING VOICE TO THE
[00:13:10] IDEA THAT ESSENTIALLY IT IS A
[00:13:14] WESTERN, WHITE, CHRISTIAN NATION
[00:13:17] WHERE OTHER PEOPLE CAN COME AND
[00:13:20] BE FULLY A PART OF AMERICA, BUT THEY HAVE TO KIND OF BE
[00:13:24] SUBORDINATE TO AN ESTABLISHED
[00:13:25] AND INHERITED IDENTITY.
[00:13:29] THEN THE OTHER STORY IS ONE OF PROGRESSIVE EXCEPTIONALISM THAT
[00:13:32] AMERICA IS A WORK IN PROGRESS AND THAT THE ENTIRE AMERICAN STORY IS ABOUT TRYING TO LIVE UP
[00:13:36] TO THE CREED OF EQUALITY THAT WE
[00:13:38] HAVE NEVER LIVED UP TO THE TITLE OF THE BOOK, ALL WE SAY REFERS
[00:13:43] TO MARTIN LUTHER KING'S SPEECH THE NIGHT BEFORE HE WAS KILLED,
[00:13:45] WHERE HE SAID, ALL WE SAY TO AMERICA IS BE TRUE TO WHAT YOU
[00:13:49] SAID ON PAPER, WHICH I THINK IS THE PERFECT SUMMATION OF THAT IDEA.
[00:13:52] THAT'S THE AMERICA OF BEN FRANKLIN IN ITS FIRST ACT AND
[00:13:57] LAST PUBLIC ACT AFTER THE CONSTITUTION PETITIONING
[00:14:00] CONGRESS TO ABOLISH SLAVERY. THAT'S FRANKLIN SAYING, WE DIDN'T FINISH THE JOB.
[00:14:03] THAT'S FREDERICK DOUGLASS. THAT'S THE SUFFRAGE MOVEMENT.
[00:14:06] THAT'S THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT. THAT'S THE WORKERS RIGHTS MOVEMENT. THAT'S DOLORES HUERTA, WHO'S IN
[00:14:10] THE BOOK. AND BARACK OBAMA REPRESENTS THAT
[00:14:15] STORY. SELMA WAS A TRIUMPHALIST ORATION.
[00:14:18] THEN DONALD TRUMP WON THE JUNE
[00:14:21] 24TH PRESIDENTIAL ACTION, AND MY EDITOR CALLED ME AND HE SAID,
[00:14:24] I'M NOT SURE IT'S A GOOD IDEA TO END THE BOOK ON SELMA.
[00:14:28] AND I HAD ACTUALLY ORIGINALLY HAD PAT BUCHANAN'S 1992 SPEECH,
[00:14:31] THE REPUBLICAN CONVENTION, AND THEN OBAMA AT SELMA, ENDING THE BOOK.
[00:14:35] AND SO I WENT BACK AND I LOOKED AT THE RACE SPEECH, WHICH IF YOU
[00:14:39] READ IT NOW, IS ACTUALLY ALMOST
[00:14:41] MORE RELEVANT TODAY THAN IT WAS
[00:14:43] THEN, BECAUSE IT'S A DEFENSE OF
[00:14:46] MULTIRACIAL DEMOCRACY THAT IS
[00:14:48] SIMULTANEOUSLY VERY PERSONAL AND
[00:14:50] VERY UNIVERSAL.
[00:14:52] I REMEMBER WE HUSTLED TO PUT THAT SPEECH.
[00:14:56] JON FAVREAU WAS THE SPEECHWRITER, THE CHIEF SPEECHWRITER ON THE CAMPAIGN.
[00:14:59] HE WROTE A DRAFT SEND IT TO OBAMA, BECAUSE WE'RE IN THIS
[00:15:03] TERRIBLE CONTROVERSY OVER REVEREND WRIGHT'S SERMONS AND
[00:15:09] BARACK OBAMA TOOK THE DRAFT, DID
[00:15:09] AN ALL NIGHTER, SEND IT BACK?
[00:15:13] FAVREAU I REMEMBER CALLING ME OVER HIS LAPTOP AND SAYING,
[00:15:15] YOU'VE GOT TO LOOK AT THIS AND I
[00:15:17] SEE A PAGE OF BLACK AND THEN I
[00:15:19] SEE PAGE AFTER PAGE AFTER PAGE
[00:15:22] OF RED TRACK CHANGES. AND THEN I SEE A PAGE OF BLACK.
[00:15:25] AND OBAMA HAD WRITTEN THE WHOLE THING HIMSELF, WHICH HE'D NEVER DONE BEFORE.
[00:15:29] I DON'T KNOW WHETHER HE WAS SHOWING OFF WITH THE TRACK CHANGES OR IF HE'S JUST A MIDDLE
[00:15:33] AGED DAD WHO DIDN'T KNOW HOW TO ACCEPT THEM. BUT THE CORE OF THAT SPEECH IS
[00:15:38] HIM FIRST PERSONALLY SAYING, I CAN NO MORE DISOWN REVEREND
[00:15:43] WRIGHT THAN I CAN DISOWN MY WHITE GRANDMOTHER WHO I'VE HEARD
[00:15:46] SAY THINGS THAT MADE ME CRINGE. ESSENTIALLY, I'M NOT DOING
[00:15:49] JUSTICE TO THE RHETORIC, BUT WHAT HE'S SAYING IS.
[00:15:53] WHO AMONG US RIGHT, IS WITHOUT
[00:15:55] ANY PREJUDICE? REVEREND WRIGHT HAS DONE WONDERFUL THINGS.
[00:15:59] HE'S ALSO SAID THINGS THAT I PROFOUNDLY DISAGREE WITH.
[00:16:03] MY WHITE GRANDMOTHER HAS DONE WONDERFUL THINGS. SHE'S ALSO SAID THINGS LIKE,
[00:16:06] THAT'S AMERICA. THAT'S EVERYBODY'S FAMILY IN AMERICA.
[00:16:10] AND IF WE REJECT AND CANCEL AND
[00:16:12] I MEAN, IRONICALLY, HE'S GIVING A SPEECH AGAINST CANCEL CULTURE
[00:16:16] IN 2008.
[00:16:18] BUT THEN HE GOES INTO THE BLACK
[00:16:20] AND WHITE PERSPECTIVE OF RACE
[00:16:23] AND HE SAYS THE BLACK EXPERIENCE IN THIS COUNTRY EXPLAINS
[00:16:27] REVEREND WRIGHT'S RHETORIC. THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT DIDN'T SOLVE INEQUALITY.
[00:16:30] HE TALKED ABOUT HOUSING. HE TALKED ABOUT THE EDUCATION GAP.
[00:16:33] HE TALKED ABOUT THE INCOME GAP.
[00:16:35] BUT IN STARK WAYS, IN WAYS THAT
[00:16:39] WOULD HAVE BEEN FAMILIAR TO KING OR JESSE JACKSON. BUT THEN HE TALKS ABOUT THE
[00:16:42] WHITE WORKING CLASS, AND THERE'S A LINE THAT JUMPED OUT TO ME.
[00:16:46] HE SAYS, THESE ARE PEOPLE WHO DON'T FEEL PARTICULARLY PRIVILEGED BY THEIR RACE.
[00:16:52] THEY'VE BEEN THE SUBJECT TO DEINDUSTRIALIZATION.
[00:16:56] THEY'RE THE ONES WHO WERE ASKED TO BUS THEIR KIDS ACROSS TOWN,
[00:16:59] EVEN IF I THINK THAT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO, THEY'RE THE ONES
[00:17:03] WHO FEEL LIKE IF THEY ARE WORRIED ABOUT CRIME, THAT THEY'RE WORRIED THAT THEY'RE GOING TO BE CALLED RACIST.
[00:17:07] THAT'S BARACK OBAMA SAYING THIS,
[00:17:08] NOT DONALD TRUMP OR EVENTS HIS
[00:17:12] ABILITY TO INHABIT. BOTH EXPERIENCE IS, I THINK WAS
[00:17:15] WHAT MADE HIM A UNIQUE POLITICAL FIGURE AND KIND OF BRIDGED THE
[00:17:18] ACTIVIST TRADITION IN THIS COUNTRY WITH THE POLITICAL POWER
[00:17:21] IN THIS COUNTRY. AND ESSENTIALLY WHAT HE'S SAYING
[00:17:24] IS PEOPLE HAVE USED RACE TO
[00:17:26] DIVIDE US FOR THEIR OWN PURPOSES.
[00:17:29] AND IF PEOPLE CAN PUT THAT ASIDE AND ACCEPT THAT WE HAVE MORE IN
[00:17:33] COMMON THAN WHAT DIVIDES US, WE CAN SOLVE THESE PROBLEMS THAT
[00:17:36] HAVE FESTERED FOR TOO LONG. AND IT WAS A VERY RESONANT
[00:17:40] MESSAGE IN THIS SECOND, TRUMP
[00:17:42] TERM BECAUSE IT'S KIND OF THE
[00:17:44] ANTITHESIS OF THE TRUMP MESSAGE,
[00:17:46] WHICH IS MY STORY IS ONE,
[00:17:51] THERE'S ONLY ONE STORY. AND IT'S KIND OF CONCLUDED IN MY
[00:17:55] ELECTION. WELL, THE THE THE RACE SPEECH,
[00:17:59] WHICH OBAMA DID NOT REALLY WANT TO GIVE. RIGHT. CAME AT A MOMENT OF REAL
[00:18:03] POLITICAL PERIL. YOU TALKED ABOUT THE POWER OF SPEECHES.
[00:18:06] DID THAT SPEECH SUCCEED IN THE MOMENT? YEAH.
[00:18:10] SO FIRST OF ALL, IT WAS FASCINATING TO GO BACK AND WATCH
[00:18:13] THE REVEREND WRIGHT CLIPS. I MEAN, MOST OF US HERE ARE OLD
[00:18:17] ENOUGH TO REMEMBER MAYBE SEEING THEM AT THE TIME. THEY WERE SHOCKING.
[00:18:20] YOU KNOW, NOW, YOU KNOW, HE
[00:18:26] BASICALLY SAYS THE CLIPS THAT GOT HIM IN TROUBLE WERE THIS
[00:18:28] NATION WAS FOUNDED ON RACISM.
[00:18:30] HE SAID THAT 911 WAS AMERICA'S
[00:18:33] CHICKENS COMING HOME TO ROOST FOR ITS FOREIGN POLICY OF
[00:18:35] OPPRESSING PALESTINIANS AND
[00:18:37] SUPPORTING THE APARTHEID REGIME
[00:18:39] IN SOUTH AFRICA. I FOUND MYSELF HAVING A PRETTY
[00:18:45] INTERESTING EXPERIENCE WITH REVEREND WRIGHT, THINKING, YOU
[00:18:47] KNOW, MAYBE HE GOT A RAW DEAL.
[00:18:51] GET ME IN TROUBLE.
[00:18:53] THAT'S ALWAYS MY GOAL. YEAH. NOW WHAT?
[00:18:57] OBAMA DID SAY ABOUT THAT, I SHOULD SAY, IS THAT THE PROBLEM WITH REVEREND WRIGHT FROM HIS
[00:19:00] PERSPECTIVE WAS NOT WHAT HE SAID WAS THAT HE BELIEVED THAT AMERICA WAS STATIC AND INCAPABLE OF CHANGE.
[00:19:05] AND THAT ITS HISTORY SHOWED THAT IT WAS CAPABLE OF CHANGE. SO THAT'S MY CAVEAT. THERE.
[00:19:09] BUT YEAH, IN THE MOMENT, LOOK, WE WERE LOSING ALTITUDE.
[00:19:13] WE SEEMED ON OUR WAY TO THE NOMINATION. EVERYTHING WAS GOING GREAT.
[00:19:16] THESE TAPES, IT I MEAN, YOU KNOW, I WENT BACK AND RELIVED
[00:19:20] THE MOMENT PEOPLE WERE CALLING FOR HIM TO DROP OUT.
[00:19:23] HE WAS SINKING IN THE POLLS. HE ENDED UP LOSING PENNSYLVANIA BY A LOT.
[00:19:27] BUT THAT THAT SPEECH BOTH
[00:19:30] ARRESTED THAT DECLINE.
[00:19:33] AND IT ALSO, I THINK, CLEARED THE AIR AROUND RACE.
[00:19:37] THE REASON WAS CALLED THE RACE SPEECH.
[00:19:39] IS IT INSIDE THE CAMPAIGN? THERE WAS ALWAYS THIS QUESTION OF WHETHER OR NOT OBAMA HAD TO
[00:19:43] GIVE A RACE SPEECH AND THERE'D BE MEETINGS AND CONFERENCE CALLS
[00:19:46] ABOUT DO WE NEED TO DO THE RACE
[00:19:48] SPEECH AND IN THE END, OBAMA
[00:19:51] SAID, I'M NOT RUNNING TO BE A RACE, YOU KNOW, PRESIDENT.
[00:19:54] I'M RUNNING TO BE PRESIDENT OF EVERYBODY. BUT WHEN THIS CONTROVERSY
[00:19:58] HAPPENED, HE SAID, ALL RIGHT, I HAVE TO GIVE THE RACE. SO WE CALLED THAT THE RACE SPEECH, FRANKLY.
[00:20:03] AND, YOU KNOW, IT'S INTERESTING.
[00:20:04] AT THE TIME, IT WAS SUCH A
[00:20:08] POWERFUL ORATION FOR LACK OF A BETTER WAY OF PUTTING IT, THAT
[00:20:12] IT DID ARREST AGAIN, THAT THAT
[00:20:16] DECLINE. IT DID MOTIVATE HIS SUPPORTERS.
[00:20:18] AND IT ALSO KIND OF HE NAMED EVERYTHING HE PUT IT ALL OUT THERE.
[00:20:22] AND SO HE DIFFUSED THAT
[00:20:26] CONTROVERSY. NOW, AT THE SAME TIME, ON THE
[00:20:29] RIGHT, THE REACTION WAS MORE
[00:20:33] VIRULENT. YOU KNOW, HE THREW HIS WHITE GRANDMA UNDER THE BUS.
[00:20:36] YOU KNOW, HE YOU KNOW, HE'S A KIND OF RACIAL CHARACTER.
[00:20:40] YOU KNOW, THEY BASICALLY ACCUSED HIM OF WHAT HE WAS WORRIED ABOUT. YOU KNOW, HE'S JUST ALL ABOUT
[00:20:44] RACE DOCUMENTS TO TALK ABOUT, YOU KNOW, AND IT WAS LIKE RUSH
[00:20:46] LIMBAUGH WAS KIND OF THE AVATAR
[00:20:48] OF THIS CERTAIN ID ON THE AMERICAN RIGHT AT THE TIME.
[00:20:52] AND THAT AT THE TIME FELT KIND
[00:20:54] OF FRINGY IN PART BECAUSE JOHN MCCAIN BECAME THE NOMINEE AND HE
[00:20:58] WASN'T OUT OF THAT TRADITION. BUT THEN SARAH PALIN GOT ON THE
[00:21:01] TICKET AND SUDDENLY THAT WAS ON THE TICKET AND SHE WAS GOING
[00:21:05] AROUND SAYING OBAMA PALS AROUND WITH TERRORISTS. AND HE'S NOT A REAL AMERICAN,
[00:21:08] WINK, WINK. AND THEN, YOU KNOW, THOSE FIRES
[00:21:12] LED INTO THE TEA PARTY MOVEMENT
[00:21:15] AND, YOU KNOW, HERE WE ARE.
[00:21:17] SO IT WAS INCREDIBLY SUCCESSFUL
[00:21:20] IN THE SHORT TERM.
[00:21:22] AND THAT'S IT WASN'T THE SPEECH. I THINK THE OBAMA PRESIDENCY
[00:21:25] ITSELF AND I WRITE ABOUT THIS, THE RADICALS IN THAT PRESIDENCY
[00:21:29] WASN'T THE POLICIES, THE
[00:21:31] RADICALISM THAT PRESIDENCY WAS THE FACT THAT THE PRESIDENT WAS
[00:21:34] BLACK. THE FACT THAT THE WHITE HOUSE WAS KIND OF POPULATED BY A
[00:21:38] DIFFERENT TYPES OF PEOPLE, THE PEOPLE THAT WERE HONORED, YOU
[00:21:41] KNOW, DOLORES HUERTA, WHO'S ALSO IN THIS BOOK, WAS, YOU KNOW, THAT'S THE KIND OF PERSON THAT
[00:21:45] GOT THE PRESIDENTIAL MEDAL OF FREEDOM, THE CULTURE KIND OF CHANGED ALONG WITH IT.
[00:21:48] YOU KNOW, THAT THIS IS THE ERA OF HAMILTON.
[00:21:52] AND AND SO I THINK THAT IF YOU
[00:21:58] LOOK AT AMERICAN HISTORY AS AND RELIVE IT AS I DID, YOU ALSO SEE
[00:22:02] THAT EVERY STEP FORWARD,
[00:22:05] PARTICULARLY ON RACE, IS USUALLY
[00:22:07] FOLLOWED BY A BACKLASH.
[00:22:09] YOU KNOW, EMANCIPATION AND
[00:22:13] RECONSTRUCT AND IS FOLLOWED BY
[00:22:15] SEX SEGREGATION AND INSTITUTE
[00:22:18] ANALYZED APARTHEID. THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT IS
[00:22:22] FOLLOWED BY NIXON INTO REAGAN.
[00:22:26] OBAMA IS FOLLOWED BY TRUMP.
[00:22:28] I MEAN, IT'S NOT AS UNIQUE A
[00:22:34] CIRCUMSTANCE, AND THAT'S ANOTHER REASON TO GO BACK INTO THE PAST, BECAUSE WE ALWAYS THINK THE
[00:22:39] PRESENT IS UNIQUELY EXCEPTIONAL
[00:22:43] WHEN IN FACT HISTORY REPEATS
[00:22:45] MORE OFTEN THAN NOT, YOU KNOW, I
[00:22:49] THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE THOUGHT
[00:22:52] THAT IT WAS UNIQUE AND SPECIAL, THAT WHEN BARACK OBAMA WAS
[00:22:58] ELECTED AND REELECTED PRESIDENT, THAT IT MEANT THAT THIS DEBATE
[00:23:00] OVER RACE AND WHO GETS TO REMEMBER THAT HAD BEEN SETTLED
[00:23:04] AND YET IT AS YOU SAY, IT WAS
[00:23:08] FOLLOWED BY THE TRUMP
[00:23:11] ADMINISTRATION WAS IT IS THIS I
[00:23:13] REALIZE YOU'RE SAYING IT THIS HAPPENS IN HISTORY.
[00:23:16] BUT HAS THIS BEEN A SURPRISE TO YOU, THE FACT THAT THESE ISSUES
[00:23:20] THAT I THINK A LOT OF AMERICANS
[00:23:22] THOUGHT WERE DONE SUDDENLY ARE AT THE FOREFRONT AGAIN?
[00:23:27] YES. I WENT TO ONE STORY FROM THE
[00:23:30] BOOK AND THEN GET TO HOW THE
[00:23:34] BOOK IN THE LAST TEN YEARS CHANGED ME A BIT.
[00:23:38] ONE OF MY FAVORITE STORY, ONE OF MY FAVORITE STORIES IN THE BOOK
[00:23:40] IS IN THE LINCOLN CHAPTER ON THE SECOND INAUGURAL. DOUGLASS.
[00:23:44] FREDERICK DOUGLASS IS IN THE AUDIENCE. THAT SPEECH AND I KIND OF TRACE
[00:23:47] IN THE CHAPTER LINCOLN'S INCREASING RADICALISM.
[00:23:51] THIS IS A MAN THAT WANTS DEFENDED SLAVERY, WHERE IT WAS
[00:23:55] WANTED TO RESTRICT IT, YOU KNOW, FROM EXPANDING, THEN WANTING TO
[00:23:58] SAVE THE UNION WITHOUT ABOLISHING SLAVERY, THEN KIND OF
[00:24:01] ABOLISHED SLAVERY AS A WARTIME NECESSITY.
[00:24:04] BUT AS THE WAR WENT ON, HE HE
[00:24:06] WAS SEEKING TO EXTRACT MEANING FROM THE WAR.
[00:24:10] AND HE REALIZED, IN PART BECAUSE OF HIS OWN FAITH, THAT THE
[00:24:15] MEANING, THE CAUSE WAS NOT THE UNION.
[00:24:18] IT WAS A WAR OF EMANCIPATION TO THE POINT THAT HE MET WITH
[00:24:20] DOUGLASS IN THE OVAL OFFICE IN
[00:24:24] 1864 BECAUSE HE THOUGHT HE WAS GOING TO LOSE, AND ASKED DOUGLASS IF HE COULD HELP
[00:24:28] SUPPORT AN EFFORT TO GET AS MANY SLAVES OUT OF THE SOUTH INTO THE
[00:24:32] NORTH SO THAT IF HE LOST THE
[00:24:36] ELECTION, THOSE PEOPLE WOULD BE PROTECTED AND FREE.
[00:24:39] AND DOUGLASS WAS PROFOUNDLY IMPACTED BY THAT.
[00:24:41] HE'D BEEN A CRITIC OF LINCOLN, BUT HE SAID, NEVER HAVE I SEEN
[00:24:43] HIS COMMITMENT TO THE ABOLITION WAR.
[00:24:47] AND SO LINCOLN GIVES HIS
[00:24:48] EXTRAORDINARY SPEECH, AND AT THE
[00:24:51] THAT NIGHT HE HAS A RECEIVING LINE AT THE WHITE HOUSE.
[00:24:55] AND DOUGLASS TRIES TO GET IN LINE TO SHAKE HIS HAND. AND BLACK PEOPLE HAD NOT USUALLY
[00:24:59] DONE THAT. AND DOUGLASS SAID, YOU KNOW, I'VE A CUSTOM, WHICH IS TO TRY
[00:25:02] TO CHANGE CUSTOMS BY JUST SHOWING UP. AND THEY USHER DOUGLASS OUT.
[00:25:06] THEY SAY, YOU CAN'T BE HERE. AND LINCOLN HEARS THIS AND HE SAYS, NO, NO. DOUGLASS, LEADEN BACK IN LINE.
[00:25:12] DOUGLASS WAITS IN LINE. HE GETS TO THE FRONT OF THE LINE, AND THERE THEY ARE.
[00:25:15] WRIGHT ABRAHAM LINCOLN, FACE TO FACE WITH FREDERICK DOUGLASS IN
[00:25:18] THE WHITE HOUSE. AND LINCOLN SAYS, WHAT DID YOU THINK OF MY SPEECH?
[00:25:22] AND DOUGLASS SAYS, I'LL WRITE YOU A LETTER. THERE'S ALL THESE PEOPLE HERE.
[00:25:25] AND LINCOLN SAYS, NO, NO, I WANT TO KNOW WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT
[00:25:29] THIS SPEECH MORE THAN ANYBODY IN THIS COUNTRY. AND DOUGLASS JUST LOOKS AT HIM.
[00:25:32] HE SAYS, MR. PRESIDENT, THAT WAS A SACRED EFFORT.
[00:25:36] AND THE REASON I TELL THAT STORY AND ANSWER YOUR QUESTION,
[00:25:39] SUZANNE, IS I BET THOSE TWO MEN AT THAT MOMENT THOUGHT THAT THIS
[00:25:43] QUESTION WAS SETTLED, THE WAR
[00:25:45] WAS WON, THE SLAVES WERE FREE.
[00:25:47] LINCOLN HAD GIVEN THAT SPEECH
[00:25:51] RECONSTRUCTION WAS ON THE HORIZON. THE 14TH AND 15TH AMENDMENT WERE
[00:25:54] ON THE HORIZON. BUT THEN LOOK WHAT HAPPENED.
[00:25:58] LINCOLN'S KILLED. RECONSTRUCTION IS DERAILED.
[00:26:02] SO THE POINT IS, THERE.
[00:26:05] I'M NOT THE FIRST PERSON TO
[00:26:07] THINK THAT MAYBE WE'VE PUT THIS BEHIND US.
[00:26:10] I NEVER THOUGHT RACE WAS OVER.
[00:26:14] OBAMA CERTAINLY DIDN'T. HE WAS THE LAST PERSON WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGHT THAT.
[00:26:17] AS HE USED TO SAY TO US, YOU KNOW, I KNOW RACE IS STILL A PROBLEM.
[00:26:21] EVERY TIME I USED TO TRY TO HAIL
[00:26:22] A CAB, BUT I DO ADMIT THAT AS A
[00:26:29] LIBERAL WHO CAME OF AGE, A WHITE
[00:26:31] LIBERAL WHO CAME OF AGE IN THE 90S WHEN EVERYTHING SEEMED TO BE
[00:26:35] MOVING IN A CERTAIN DIRECTION, THAT I DID KIND OF HAVE AN
[00:26:38] INNATE SENSE OF THE INEVITABILITY OF PROGRESS. YOU KNOW, THE ARC OF THE MORAL
[00:26:42] UNIVERSE IS LONG, BUT IT BENDS
[00:26:43] TOWARD JUSTICE AND I WILL SAY
[00:26:48] THAT THE LAST TEN YEARS HAVE DISABUSED ME OF THE NOTION OF
[00:26:50] ANY INEVITABILITY TO THAT.
[00:26:52] BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT YOU
[00:26:55] SUCCUMB TO CYNICISM, BECAUSE IN THE LONGER ARC OF THINGS, EACH
[00:26:59] TIME WE GO THROUGH THIS CYCLE,
[00:27:01] THE NATION BECOMES MORE LIKE THE
[00:27:05] ASPIRATION YOU KNOW, DOUGLASS GAVE A SPEECH THAT I HAVE IN
[00:27:08] THIS BOOK IN THE 1860S DEFEND
[00:27:10] ING CHINESE IMMIGRATION. IT'S A PRETTY REMARKABLE THING
[00:27:13] TO DO. I'M SURE THAT DIDN'T PULL WELL AT THE TIME, BUT HIS ARGUMENT
[00:27:17] WAS ESSENTIALLY HOW CAN I DEFEND MULTIRACIAL DEMOCRACY FOR BLACKS
[00:27:20] IF I DON'T DEFEND IT FOR THESE CHINESE WORKERS WHO ARE BEING
[00:27:22] MISTREATED NOW, THE CHINESE
[00:27:24] EXCLUSION ACT WAS PASSED SHORTLY
[00:27:27] AFTER THAT OR, YOU KNOW, SOME YEARS AFTER THAT.
[00:27:29] AND CHINESE PEOPLE CAN EMIGRATE TO THE UNITED STATES FOR DECADES.
[00:27:33] SO DOUGLASS LOST THE DEBATE RIGHT. WELL, LOOK AROUND AMERICA TODAY.
[00:27:37] HOW MANY CHINESE AMERICANS, HOW
[00:27:39] MANY ASIAN-AMERICANS DO YOU SEE? SO I THINK THAT THE ARC OF THE
[00:27:43] MORAL UNIVERSE DOES BEND TOWARDS JUSTICE. IT JUST TAKES A LITTLE LONGER
[00:27:47] THAN WE WOULD LIKE. THE THE TRUMP SPEECH THAT YOU
[00:27:51] INCLUDE IN YOUR BOOK IS HIS SECOND INAUGURAL ADDRESS FROM
[00:27:55] LAST YEAR. WHY DID YOU CHOOSE THAT ONE?
[00:28:00] IT PAINED ME A LITTLE BIT TO.
[00:28:04] TO PUT TRUMP IN THIS CONTINUUM,
[00:28:08] BUT ACTUALLY, ONCE I MADE THE DECISION TO DO THAT, WHICH WAS
[00:28:11] KIND OF THE LAST DECISION I
[00:28:15] MADE, I REALIZED IMMEDIATELY IT WAS THE SAME CLICK THAT I HAD WITH FRANKLIN.
[00:28:19] LIKE ONE TRUMP IS AS MUCH A PART
[00:28:22] OF THIS STORY AS ANYBODY ELSE, AND TO SAY SOMETHING
[00:28:27] UNCOMFORTABLE MAY BE TO SOME PEOPLE, THERE IS NO OTHER
[00:28:29] COUNTRY ON EARTH WHERE DONALD TRUMP COULD BE PRESIDENT.
[00:28:33] HE'S AN AMERICAN FIGURE AND I.
[00:28:37] I FOUND THAT IN HISTORY THERE
[00:28:41] WERE A LOT OF CURRENTS FROM THE
[00:28:45] SPEECHES I CHOSE THAT RAN INTO TRUMP.
[00:28:47] THE POPULISM OF THE LATE 19TH CENTURY. YES.
[00:28:50] WAS ABOUT LEFTIST ECONOMICS.
[00:28:53] IT WAS ALSO ABOUT THE REUNIFICATION OF THE WHITE
[00:28:56] WORKING CLASS OF THE NORTH AND SOUTH. IT WAS ANTI-IMMIGRANT, IT WAS
[00:29:01] XENOPHOBIC. IT SAID, WHY DID WE SPEND ALL THAT TIME IN RECONSTRUCTION FOCUSED ON BLACK POLITICAL
[00:29:06] RIGHTS, WHEN WE SHOULD HAVE BEEN FOCUSED ON THE ECONOMIC
[00:29:08] ANXIETIES OF WHITE WORKING CLASS PEOPLE IN PLACES LIKE KANSAS,
[00:29:12] WHERE MARY LEESE WAS FROM TO THE POINT THAT THE POPULIST PARTY
[00:29:16] TICKET IN 1896 WAS A UNION GENERAL AND A CONFEDERATE
[00:29:20] GENERAL WAS NOT A SUBTLE MESSAGE. RIGHT?
[00:29:23] THAT POPULISM HELPS EXPLAIN DONALD TRUMP.
[00:29:27] IN MY FDR CHAPTER, I WENT THROUGH THE AMERICA FIRST MOVEMENT, THE KIND OF PARANOID
[00:29:33] ISOLATION ISM OF THE 1930S. WELL, OBVIOUSLY, THAT LEADS INTO
[00:29:35] DONALD TRUMP.
[00:29:37] SO YOU KNOW, IMMIGRATION IS A MUCH BIGGER.
[00:29:41] IT WAS INTERESTING TO REALIZE
[00:29:44] HOW CONTESTED IMMIGRATION HAS BEEN THROUGH AMERICAN HISTORY
[00:29:46] AND ANTI-IMMIGRATION SENTIMENT IS NOT NEW IN THIS COUNTRY.
[00:29:50] IT HAS BEEN CONSTANT ABOUT CHINESE PEOPLE, ABOUT IRISH
[00:29:54] PEOPLE, ABOUT JEWISH PEOPLE, ANYBODY WHO COMES HERE AT FIRST
[00:29:56] IS REJECTED.
[00:29:58] AND SO A LOT OF THINGS THAT
[00:30:00] TRUMP SAID IN THAT SECOND
[00:30:03] INAUGURAL, I THOUGHT I COULD
[00:30:05] DRAW THE ORIGINS BACK INTO
[00:30:09] HISTORY. BUT THEN I ALSO WANTED TO IDENTIFY WHAT'S DIFFERENT
[00:30:13] BECAUSE TRUMP IS DIFFERENT.
[00:30:15] THERE'S A LINE IN THAT SPEECH
[00:30:19] WHERE HE SAYS, REFERRING TO THE
[00:30:22] BUTLER ASSASSINATION ATTEMPT, I
[00:30:24] WAS SAVED BY GOD TO MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN.
[00:30:28] THAT IS NOT SOMETHING YOU'LL FIND IN AMERICAN HISTORY.
[00:30:32] THE I EVEN ALEXANDER STEPHENS
[00:30:36] WAS TALKING ABOUT A COLLECTIVE. HE WAS TALKING ABOUT THE SOUTH.
[00:30:40] HE WAS TALKING ABOUT THE WHITE PEOPLE OF THE SOUTH, THE WE READ
[00:30:46] THAT SECOND INAUGURAL AND SEE HOW MANY TIMES THE WORD I
[00:30:49] APPEARS MOST INAUGURATIONS CALL UPON PEOPLE TO DO THINGS.
[00:30:52] ASK NOT WHAT YOUR COUNTRY CAN DO FOR YOU.
[00:30:56] TRUMP IS ESSENTIALLY SAYS IN
[00:30:58] THAT SPEECH, YOU KNOW, YOU'VE DONE YOUR WORK.
[00:31:02] AMERICANS. YOU PUT ME BACK IN CHARGE AND NOW I'VE GOT THIS FROM HERE THAT
[00:31:05] THE QUOTE I PULL OUT AS THE
[00:31:07] TITLE OF CHAPTER IS I WILL WIN
[00:31:11] FOR YOU.
[00:31:13] AND IN THAT, EXPLAIN IS THE FACT
[00:31:17] THAT WHEN I LOOK AT TRUMP AS SOMEONE WHO, LIKE ANYBODY, DOES
[00:31:20] NOT HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS AND IS PROBABLY WRONG ABOUT PLENTY OF
[00:31:22] THINGS, I HAVE TO ACKNOWLEDGE IT. YOU KNOW, I MAY NOT AGREE WITH
[00:31:26] HIS IMMIGRATION POLICIES.
[00:31:27] I MAY NOT AGREE WITH HIS TAX
[00:31:33] POLICIES. ANY NUMBER OF HIS POLICIES WHERE
[00:31:35] HE'S DIFFERENT, THOUGH, IS WHEN
[00:31:39] HE INSIST UPON HIS RIGHT TO
[00:31:43] OPERATE OUTSIDE THE AGREED UPON COMPROMISE LIES THAT BENJAMIN
[00:31:47] FRANKLIN TALKED ABOUT 250 YEARS AGO. YOU KNOW, EVEN PEOPLE THAT I
[00:31:52] VERY OPENLY DISAGREE WITH THROUGHOUT HISTORY, EVEN
[00:31:56] SEGREGATIONISTS, TRIED TO MAKE THEIR CASES AND WITHIN SOME
[00:32:00] CONSTRUCT OF THE LAW, WITHIN SOME CONSTRUCT OF AGREED UPON
[00:32:04] POLITICS. AND IT'S WHEN TRUMP CHOOSES TO
[00:32:07] ALLOW HIMSELF TO IGNORE THE LAW
[00:32:11] TO IGNORE THE RESULTS OF AN
[00:32:13] ELECTION, TO LAUNCH WARS WITH NO
[00:32:15] REGARD FOR CONGRESS TO, YOU
[00:32:17] KNOW, TO ENRICH HIMSELF AND HIS
[00:32:20] FAMILY WITH NO REGARD TO ANY
[00:32:24] CONSTRAINT, LEGAL OR NORMATIVE.
[00:32:26] AND SO SO I WANTED TO USE THAT
[00:32:29] CHAPTER TO IDENTIFY BOTH WHAT WE
[00:32:33] CAN FIND IN TRUMP THAT HAS A HISTORICAL PRECEDENT AND WHAT WE
[00:32:37] CAN SEE IN TRUMP THAT ACTUALLY
[00:32:39] DEVIATES FROM THAT PRECEDENT IN
[00:32:41] WHICH IS AN INTERESTING EXERCISE
[00:32:43] IN THE IN THE DEBATE THAT TRUMP
[00:32:45] HAS LED ON QUESTIONS OF NATIONAL
[00:32:49] IDENTITY, ON IN REGARDING IMMIGRANTS OR PEOPLE OF COLOR OR
[00:32:53] TRANSGENDER INDIVIDUALS AND OTHERS.
[00:32:55] DID TRUMP REOPEN THESE DEBATES
[00:32:59] OR DID HE JUST RECOGNIZE THAT THESE DEBATES HAD BEEN REOPENED
[00:33:02] AND TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THEM.
[00:33:08] I THINK ONE WAY TO THINK ABOUT
[00:33:11] TRUMP IS LET'S START WITH FOX NEWS.
[00:33:17] SO FOX NEWS IS VERY GOOD.
[00:33:19] BELIEVE ME, I WAS IN THE WHITE HOUSE.
[00:33:22] A DOG WHISTLES. YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, THERE WAS A LOT OF OTHERS.
[00:33:27] YOU KNOW, THERE WAS THE BROWN PEOPLE CROSSING THE BORDER.
[00:33:30] THERE WAS THE BLACK PRESIDENT WHO WAS APPARENTLY SOCIALIST,
[00:33:34] EVEN THOUGH AS THE SOCIALIST, HOW MUCH THEY LIKED OBAMA.
[00:33:37] YOU KNOW, THE EBOLA WAS THIS SPARRING THING.
[00:33:41] I MEAN, THERE'S A FAMOUS AD OF THESE FAMOUS US IN THE WHITE
[00:33:44] HOUSE IN THE MIDTERM ELECTIONS
[00:33:46] IN 2014 THAT PACKAGED TOGETHER ALL THESE NARRATIVES THAT ARE
[00:33:50] EASIEST TERRORISTS. WE'RE GOING TO CROSS THE
[00:33:53] SOUTHERN BORDER CARRYING EBOLA.
[00:33:55] YOU KNOW, ALL OF THE NONWHITE OTHERS WERE COMING FOR YOU.
[00:33:58] YOU KNOW, THINK OF TRUMP AS A
[00:34:01] FOX NEWS VIEWER WHO JUST DECIDES
[00:34:03] TO START SAYING ALL THE STUFF OUT LOUD.
[00:34:06] YOU KNOW. THE OTHER THING, THOUGH, THAT I
[00:34:10] DID IS IF YOU GO BACK, I SPENT A
[00:34:13] LOT OF TIME WITH PAT BUCHANAN IN.
[00:34:17] AND ACTUALLY, THIS IS REALLY INTERESTING BECAUSE I DID THE
[00:34:19] REAGAN SPEECH, THE EVIL EMPIRE SPEECH, WHICH IS GIVEN TO THE NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF
[00:34:23] EVANGELICAL AIDS, WHICH WAS THE COALITION. YOU KNOW, IT WAS CHRISTIAN
[00:34:26] EVANGELICALS, NATIONAL SECURITY HAWKS AND SMALL GOVERNMENT CONSERVATIVES.
[00:34:30] THAT WAS THE REPUBLICAN PARTY
[00:34:33] THAT REAGAN SPOKE INTO BEING AND CARRIED THROUGH THE COLD WAR AND
[00:34:37] THE BUSH PRESIDENCY. THEN PAT BUCHANAN COMES ALONG IN
[00:34:40] 1992 AND AND TRUMP PAID A LOT
[00:34:43] ATTENTION TO PAT BUCHANAN. I MEAN, TO THE EXTENT THAT THE FIRST TIME TRUMP SAW IT, THE
[00:34:47] PRESIDENCY WAS ON THE REFORM PARTY TICKET THAT PAT BUCHANAN
[00:34:49] HAD HAD SORT OF PAT BUCHANAN IN
[00:34:53] 1992 RAN ON BUILDING A WALL ON
[00:34:55] THE SOUTHERN BORDER ON TARIFFS
[00:34:57] IN CANCELING TRADE AGREEMENTS.
[00:34:59] HIS SLOGAN WAS AMERICA FIRST.
[00:35:04] SO THERE WERE THINGS THAT TRUMP
[00:35:06] PICKED UP ON THAT THAT WERE BUILDING INSIDE OF THE
[00:35:10] REPUBLICAN PARTY, A FRUSTRATION
[00:35:13] WITH REPUBLICAN ESTABLISHMENT
[00:35:15] THAT WOULD SHOW UP AT ELECTIONS AND PROMISE THINGS TO WHITE
[00:35:19] WORKING CLASS PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY AND THEN GET INTO
[00:35:23] GOVERNMENT AND THEY WOULDN'T DO THOSE THINGS. AND SO I THINK TRUMP COMBINED
[00:35:26] THE KIND OF AID OF THE FOX NEWS
[00:35:29] VIEWER WITH THE GRIEVANCE OF PEOPLE WHO'D BEEN ASKED FOR
[00:35:32] THEIR VOTES BY REPUBLICANS FOR A LONG TIME, ONLY TO SEE THOSE
[00:35:36] PEOPLE NOT DO THOSE THINGS IN OFFICE, WHETHER IT WAS ON
[00:35:40] ABORTION OR WHETHER IT WAS ON TRADE OR WHETHER IT WAS ON, YOU
[00:35:43] KNOW, PUNISHING, YOU KNOW, OWNING THE LIBS OR WHATEVER IT IS.
[00:35:47] AND AND AND I THINK THAT WAS A
[00:35:49] POWERFUL COMBINATION.
[00:35:51] AND AND THE FACT THAT TRUMP WAS WILLING TO BREAK THE REPUBLICAN
[00:35:55] PARTY GAVE HIM A CERTAIN CREDIBILITY.
[00:35:58] YOU KNOW, WELL, IF THIS GUY IS WILLING TO SMASH THIS
[00:36:02] ESTABLISHMENT, MAYBE HE'LL BE WILLING TO SMASH ALL THE
[00:36:04] ESTABLISHMENT THAT I FEEL HAVE LET ME DOWN.
[00:36:08] LET'S POSIT THAT A DEMOCRAT AT
[00:36:10] SOME POINT WILL BE ELECTED PRESIDENT AGAIN.
[00:36:14] AND LET'S ASSUME THAT SHE WILL.
[00:36:22] THAT DISAGREE WITH THE WAY TRUMP IS ASKED.
[00:36:24] ANSWER THAT QUESTION OF WHO GETS TO BE AN AMERICAN AND WHO
[00:36:28] DECIDES? HOW DO YOU THINK THE NEXT
[00:36:31] DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENT OUGHT TO PROCEED TO TRY TO REASSERT A
[00:36:36] DIFFERENT ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION? SO FIRST OF ALL, I ME SAY
[00:36:40] SOMETHING ABOUT SPEECHES BECAUSE
[00:36:41] I THINK THAT'S A PART OF IT.
[00:36:44] IT WAS INTERESTING, YOU KNOW, IN RELIVING THIS, I REALIZED HOW
[00:36:47] MUCH THE MEDIUM INTERACTS WITH THE MESSAGE, RIGHT?
[00:36:50] SO IN FRANKLIN'S DAY SPEECHES WERE DELIVERED TO THE PEOPLE IN
[00:36:54] THE ROOM, AND THEN THEY WERE REPRINTED IN NEWSPAPERS. SO THEY WERE KIND OF THESE CAREFULLY WORDED ARGUMENTS IN
[00:36:59] DOUGLASS'S DAY, THERE WAS A SPEAKER CIRCUIT. SO YOU LITERALLY TRAVEL AROUND
[00:37:02] THE COUNTRY AND GIVE THE SAME SPEECH HUNDREDS OF TIMES. AND SPEAKERS WERE KIND OF LIKE
[00:37:06] POP STARS. YOU KNOW, THAT'S PEOPLE COME OUT TO SEE THEM AND YOU COULD BUILD
[00:37:09] REFORM MOVEMENTS THAT WAY. THEN RADIO COMES ALONG AND FDR,
[00:37:12] THE PLAIN SPOKEN EXPLANATION OF
[00:37:15] AN FDR, IT CARRIES THE DAY.
[00:37:17] THEN UNDER TELEVISION, CHARISMA
[00:37:19] MATTERS BECAUSE TELEVISION PRIZES, CHARISMA AND SPECTACLE
[00:37:23] AND KING AND KENNEDY AND DOLORES HUERTA. PEOPLE LIKE THAT CAPTURE
[00:37:27] ATTENTION. WE LIVE IN A SOCIAL MEDIA AGE.
[00:37:29] AND SO WHEN'S THE LAST TIME YOU GUYS WATCHED AN ENTIRE SPEECH?
[00:37:34] RIGHT? SPEECHES ARE CUT INTO PIECES AND
[00:37:38] ALGORITHM WEEKLY DELIVERED TO YOU TO TRIGGER YOU, TO MAKE YOU
[00:37:40] FEAR, HATE THE OTHER SIDE, OR TO
[00:37:43] REINFORCE THE CORRECTNESS OF YOUR OWN BELIEFS, WHEN IN FACT,
[00:37:46] A SPEECH SHOULD BE ABOUT PERSUASION AND MAKING AN ENTIRE
[00:37:49] ARGUMENT AND LISTENING TO ENTIRE ARGUMENT. TRUMP HAS BEEN PERFECT FOR THIS
[00:37:53] TIME BECAUSE HE'LL GIVE A ONE HOUR RALLY SPEECH AND HE KNOWS
[00:37:57] THAT MOST PEOPLE ARE NOT GOING TO STICK AROUND FOR THE WHOLE SPEECH ON TV.
[00:37:59] BUT THAT THAT SPEECH IS GOING TO
[00:38:01] CREATE DOZENS OF VIRAL CLIPS THAT ARE GOING TO RICOCHET AROUND THE INTERNET AND DO THAT.
[00:38:05] AND DEMOCRATS, I FEEL LIKE, HAVE
[00:38:09] BEEN STRUGGLING TO COMMUNICATE FOR THE LAST TEN YEARS BECAUSE
[00:38:13] THEY'RE KIND OF EITHER TRYING TO REPLICATE WHAT TRUMP'S DOING. WE NEED TO MAKE GOOD SOCIAL
[00:38:17] MEDIA VIDEOS OR MAYBE WE SHOULD GO ON.
[00:38:19] JOE ROGAN OR, YOU KNOW, OR
[00:38:22] THEY'RE SO NERVOUS ABOUT LOSING
[00:38:25] AN ELECTION BECAUSE THE STAKES ARE SO HIGH THAT THEY FOCUS
[00:38:28] GROUP EVERYTHING TO DEATH. AND SO YOU GET THIS LANGUAGE
[00:38:31] LIKE WE NEED TO BUILD AN ECONOMY
[00:38:33] FROM THE BOTTOM UP TO THE MIDDLE OUT.
[00:38:35] LIKE WHAT ON EARTH DOES THAT MEAN? YOU KNOW, WHERE ARE THE PEOPLE
[00:38:39] IN THAT, YOU KNOW? AND I SEE THAT BECAUSE I WAS
[00:38:44] AWARE OF WRITING THIS TIME AT A MOMENT WHEN SPEECHES ARE NOT
[00:38:47] EXACTLY IN VOGUE, BUT I THINK
[00:38:49] THE NEXT DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENT
[00:38:51] AND HOPEFULLY THE CANDIDATES IN
[00:38:53] 2028 SHOULD RECOGNIZE THAT WHAT
[00:38:57] PEOPLE ARE HUNGERING FOR RIGHT
[00:38:59] NOW IS A MORAL CASE ABOUT WHAT
[00:39:03] THIS COUNTRY IS AND CAN BE THAT
[00:39:07] IT'S NOT ENOUGH TO HAVE THE
[00:39:09] RIGHT POLICIES THAT AT A TIME
[00:39:11] WHEN THERE'S WAR AROUND THE WORLD, AT A TIME WHEN THE
[00:39:15] ECONOMY JUST DOES NOT WORK, CAPITALISM IS BROKEN, AND THE EXTENT OF INEQUALITY AND WEALTH
[00:39:19] THAT IS BEING GENERATED WHILE PEOPLE CAN AFFORD THINGS.
[00:39:22] AT A TIME WHEN AI IS COMING FOR
[00:39:24] YOUR JOBS AND I'M WORRIED ABOUT MY KIDS BEING FRIENDS WITH CHAT
[00:39:28] BOTS. THIS IS EXHAUSTING. AND SO I DON'T NECESSARILY WANT
[00:39:31] TO JUST HEAR ABOUT THE RESTORATION OF OBAMACARE
[00:39:34] SUBSIDIES OR EVEN, YOU KNOW, HOW
[00:39:37] AFFORDABLE HOUSING BEING BUILT. I WANT THOSE THINGS TO HAPPEN.
[00:39:41] BUT IN LOOKING AT THIS SPEECH,
[00:39:44] THIS BOOK, THE LEADERS WHO WERE
[00:39:46] ABLE TO PROVIDE THE VISION OF
[00:39:52] WHY WE NEED TO DO THINGS AND
[00:39:52] WHERE WE'RE TRYING TO GO, FDR IN
[00:39:57] HIS SPEECH IN 1940, IN THE DARKEST HOUR OF WORLD WAR TWO,
[00:40:01] DIDN'T JUST MAKE A CASE AGAINST ISOLATIONISM, ENFORCE SUPPORT
[00:40:04] FOR DEMOCRATIC ALLIES. THAT'S WHEN HE INTRODUCED THE
[00:40:07] FOUR FREEDOMS THAT AMERICA STANDS FOR.
[00:40:10] WE STAND FOR FREEDOM OF SPEECH. WE STAND FOR FREEDOM OF WORSHIP.
[00:40:14] WE STAND FOR FREEDOM FROM FEAR OF AGGRESSION. WE STAND FOR FREEDOM FROM WANT,
[00:40:18] WHICH IS A PRETTY RADICAL THING FOR A PRESIDENT TO SAY.
[00:40:21] KING WHEN YOU GOT TO THE END OF THE I HAVE A DREAM SPEECH, THE
[00:40:24] PREPARED TEXT, HE DIDN'T HAVE THE DREAM IN IT.
[00:40:28] AND HE'S STANDING THERE. AND I THINK BY READING A LOT OF
[00:40:31] ABOUT HIM THAT HE KNEW I NEED TO
[00:40:34] GIVE THESE PEOPLE SOMETHING MORE, YOU KNOW, THIS IS THE
[00:40:38] BIGGEST CROWD I'M EVER GOING TO SPEAK TO.
[00:40:41] THE THE MOST WHITE PEOPLE HAD
[00:40:45] NEVER SEEN A BLACK PERSON DELIVER A WHOLE SPEECH BEFORE.
[00:40:47] HE WAS GOING TO SEND THESE PEOPLE BACK TO THE SOUTH TO GET
[00:40:51] BEAT UP AND IMPRISONED AND SO
[00:40:54] THE DREAM CAME OUT OF HIM. THAT'S THE VISION.
[00:40:57] HE MADE PEOPLE BELIEVE THAT THAT WAS POSSIBLE.
[00:41:00] AND THAT'S WHAT PROPELLED THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT.
[00:41:04] REAGAN, AS MUCH AS I DISAGREED WITH HIM, DID SOMETHING SIMILAR. OBAMA DID SOMETHING SIMILAR.
[00:41:07] AND SO I HOPE THAT THE NEXT DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL
[00:41:11] CANDIDATES AND PRESIDENT TELL A
[00:41:14] STORY ABOUT HOW WE GOT HERE AND
[00:41:17] ABOUT WHERE WE'RE GOING THAT HAS
[00:41:19] A MORAL SENSE TO IT RIGHT?
[00:41:25] HOW WE HAVE A STAKE IN EACH OTHER.
[00:41:28] LIKE WHY THIS IS WORTH IT AS A
[00:41:30] AS A COUNTRY.
[00:41:34] NOW WE GET INTO POLICY.
[00:41:36] I THINK THAT I DO THINK THAT
[00:41:40] THERE'S AN NECESS THE WHO'S DOING THIS WELL MAYBE SUGGESTS THE POLICY IF YOU LOOK AT IT JON
[00:41:44] OSSOFF WHEN HE TALKS ABOUT CORRUPTION, HE CONNECTS THE DOTS
[00:41:47] IN A STORY. THE REASON SO DEMOCRATS HAVE HAD
[00:41:50] THIS PROBLEM THROUGHOUT THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION.
[00:41:54] WE TALK ABOUT DEMOCRACY AND CORRUPTION AND WE TALK ABOUT HEALTH CARE.
[00:41:57] YOU KNOW WHAT OSSOFF IS DOING IS HE'S TELLING A STORY ABOUT, HEY, THE REASON YOU CAN'T AFFORD
[00:42:01] ANYTHING IS BECAUSE THESE CORRUPT PEOPLE ARE ENRICHING
[00:42:03] THEIR FRIENDS AT YOUR EXPENSE.
[00:42:07] AND I'M SHORT HANDING IT, BUT IT'S A COHERENT STORY. JAMES TALLARICO WHEN HE TALKS
[00:42:10] ABOUT WHY HE'S IN POLITICS, HE TALKS ABOUT HIS FAITH WHICH COMPELS HIM TO CARE ABOUT HIS
[00:42:14] NEIGHBOR. YOU KNOW, ALEXANDRIA
[00:42:18] OCASIO-CORTEZ IS HAS A KIND OF JOYFUL FEARLESSNESS THAT I SAW
[00:42:21] IN A LOT OF THE PEOPLE IN THIS BOOK WHO ARE ACTIVISTS AND PROGRESSIVES.
[00:42:25] THAT MAKES PEOPLE FEEL LIKE CHANGE IS POSSIBLE.
[00:42:29] AND SO THOSE ARE THE THINGS THAT MAKE PEOPLE THINK, YEAH, YOU
[00:42:32] KNOW, WE CAN HAVE LOWER PRICES. YOU KNOW, I MEAN, MAMDANI DID
[00:42:35] THIS IN NEW YORK LIKE WE WAIT A SECOND, WE CAN DO THIS.
[00:42:39] WE'RE IN CHARGE OF THIS COUNTRY. YOU KNOW, IF WE BUILD A BIG ENOUGH MOVEMENT, WE CAN BREAK
[00:42:42] THE CORRUPTION, WE CAN GET THE MONEY OUT OF POLITICS, WE CAN.
[00:42:45] AND THAT WILL ALLOW US TO MAKE THE REFORMS THAT WILL LOWER
[00:42:47] PRICES AND THAT WILL MAKE YOU BELIEVE THAT THE FUTURE CAN BE BETTER THAN THE PRESENT.
[00:42:51] SO WE HAVE ABOUT 15 MINUTES LEFT.
[00:42:55] I KNOW THIS IS A REALLY SMART AUDIENCE.
[00:42:57] I WOULD LIKE TO GET QUESTIONS FROM YOU ALL.
[00:43:00] IF YOU JUST LINE UP AT THE AT THE MICROPHONE AND I BELIEVE YOU
[00:43:04] ARE READY. YES, GO AHEAD. YES.
[00:43:06] SO FIRST, OBAMA WAS A TERRIFIC
[00:43:09] SPEAKER AND THAT'S HOW HE BEAT HILLARY.
[00:43:12] I WAS THERE A QUESTION?
[00:43:17] MY ANSWER DOESN'T GO ALL THE WAY BACK TO THE 18TH CENTURY, BUT
[00:43:20] IT'S MUCH LONGER THAN YOURS.
[00:43:24] I WAS BORN IN THE 40S IN WHAT WAS CALLED THE NEW DEAL.
[00:43:27] VERY IMPORTANT.
[00:43:30] THIS WAS NOT THE COUNTRY WE HAVE NOW.
[00:43:33] AND WHAT I DON'T UNDERSTAND, I UNDERSTAND HOW TRUMP WORKS AND
[00:43:36] HOW HE THINKS. BUT I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY PEOPLE VOTE FOR HIM.
[00:43:40] THE PEOPLE I GREW UP WITH,
[00:43:44] THEY'RE THE PEOPLE THAT ARE RUNNING THE COUNTRY. I'M THE SAME AGE AS HILLARY
[00:43:47] CLINTON AND. AND CLINTON AND TRUMP.
[00:43:50] AND I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT'S HAPPENED.
[00:43:54] YOU'RE NOT ALONE.
[00:43:58] WHILE I DON'T CLAIM TO HAVE ALL
[00:44:00] THE ANSWERS TO THAT QUESTION.
[00:44:07] I FIRST OF ALL, I DO THINK THAT
[00:44:12] IF IF YOU LOOK AT THE ARC OF
[00:44:14] AMERICAN HISTORY.
[00:44:18] IT IS OFTEN THE CASE THAT WHEN
[00:44:22] THERE ARE PERIODS OF DISRUPTION,
[00:44:27] WHEN THERE PERIODS OF TIME IN WHICH PEOPLE FEEL LIKE THE WAY
[00:44:30] THAT THEY'RE ACCUSTOMED TO
[00:44:33] LIVING IS CHANGING BEYOND THEIR
[00:44:36] CONTROL, THEY OFTEN TURN TO A
[00:44:41] MORE TRIBAL POLITICS.
[00:44:41] SO WHEN WOULD THAT HAVE BEEN SO
[00:44:45] I WAS GOING TO GET TO THAT.
[00:44:47] I THE PERIOD OF GLOBALIZATION
[00:44:51] AFTER THE REAGAN PRESIDENCY
[00:44:53] WHERE YOU HAVE AND CLINTON,
[00:44:55] FRANKLY, WHERE YOU HAVE, YOU
[00:44:59] KNOW, THE COMBINATION OF THE
[00:45:03] COLLAPSE OF THE SOVIET UNION, WHICH OPENED AND THE OPENING OF
[00:45:06] CHINA, WHICH OPENED UP HALF THE
[00:45:08] WORLD TO THE FREE TRADE
[00:45:11] AGREEMENTS AND THE FREE MOVEMENT OF PEOPLES.
[00:45:14] AND THIS WAS GOING TO USHER IN THIS POST HISTORICAL ERA.
[00:45:18] WELL, IT ALSO, YOU KNOW, LED TO
[00:45:22] MASSIVE DEINDUSTRIALIZATION AND IT LED TO KIND OF THE
[00:45:26] LIVELIHOODS OF, YOU KNOW, I THINK ABOUT MY FAMILY. PART OF MY FAMILY'S FROM SMALL
[00:45:30] TOWN TEXAS, LIKE THE JOBS ALL LEFT.
[00:45:32] AND NOT ONLY DID YOU KNOW, MY GRANDFATHER WORKED ONE JOB HIS
[00:45:36] WHOLE LIFE, RIGHT. AND HAD A PENSION AND AND ALL OF
[00:45:40] A SUDDEN THAT'S GONE.
[00:45:42] AND MEANWHILE, THE CULTURE IS BEING HOMOGENIZED AND AND THE
[00:45:46] DEMOGRAPHICS OF THE COUNTRY ARE CHANGING.
[00:45:49] AND AND IT'S IT'S DISORIENTING TO PEOPLE.
[00:45:52] AND AND YET A LOT OF OUR
[00:45:54] POLITICS WAS DESIGNED, I THINK,
[00:45:56] BECAUSE OF THE ROLE OF MONEY IN
[00:45:58] POLITICS TO PREVENT POLITICIANS FROM BEING ABLE TO SOLVE THOSE
[00:46:02] PROBLEMS. EXACTLY. YOU KNOW, A LOT OF THE TIMES WHEN PEOPLE COMPLAIN ABOUT
[00:46:06] OBAMA, I AGREE WITH WHAT THEY WISH HE WOULD HAVE DONE, BUT HE
[00:46:08] WANTED TO DO THOSE THINGS AND COULDN'T GET THOSE THINGS
[00:46:11] THROUGH CONGRESS. YOU KNOW, IT WAS DEMOCRATS THAT
[00:46:15] KILLED THE PUBLIC OPTION IN
[00:46:17] OBAMACARE HAPPENED TO COME FROM STATES THAT HAD SIGNIFICANT
[00:46:21] INSURANCE INTERESTS. RIGHT. JUST TAKE ONE EXAMPLE. AND SO I THINK THERE WAS A
[00:46:25] MOUNTING FRUSTRATION WITH BOTH POLITICAL PARTIES THAT, HEY, WHY
[00:46:28] AREN'T YOU SOLVING THESE PROBLEMS? AND I DON'T LIKE ALL THIS
[00:46:32] CHANGE. AND IN THIS STORY YOU'VE BEEN TELLING ME ABOUT HOW THINGS ARE
[00:46:36] GOING TO GET BETTER IS NOT WHAT I'M FEELING IN MY LIFE. I DON'T THINK IN ANY WAY, SHAPE
[00:46:39] OR FORM THAT JUSTIFIES VOTING FOR SOMEBODY THAT IS PUTTING
[00:46:43] IMMIGRANTS IN CONCENTRATION CAMPS AND LAUNCHING ILLEGAL
[00:46:47] WARS. IT DOESN'T. I'M NOT HERE TO EXCUSE THOSE
[00:46:50] CHOICES, BUT I DO THINK WHAT WE
[00:46:54] HAVE TO RECKON WITH, THOUGH, IS THAT THE NEXT DEMOCRATIC
[00:46:58] PRESIDENT SHOULD NOT BE ADVOCATING FOR SOME RETURN TO
[00:47:00] SOME PAST SHOULD NOT BE SEEN AS A DEFENDER.
[00:47:04] I MEAN, WE'VE HAD THREE SUCCESSIVE DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATES, ALL OF WHOM I FIND
[00:47:07] THINGS TO ADMIRE AND WHO SOMEHOW BECAME THE DEFENDERS OF OF AN
[00:47:13] ESTABLISHMENT THAT PEOPLE DIDN'T LIKE, EVEN THOUGH THE DEMOCRATS AREN'T THE ONES THAT BUILT THAT ESTABLISHMENT.
[00:47:17] YOU KNOW, SOMEHOW WE ARE
[00:47:20] DEFENDING, YOU KNOW, TRADE
[00:47:22] AGREEMENTS OR THE NATIONAL SECURITY ESTABLISHMENT THAT I
[00:47:26] USED TO BE PART OF THAT PEOPLE FEEL HAS FAILED THEM.
[00:47:28] WE HAVE TO LET THAT GO INSTEAD
[00:47:32] OF DEFENDING WHAT HAD BEEN BUILT
[00:47:35] AND IS NOW BEEN TORN DOWN. WE NEED TO BE TALKING ABOUT WHAT
[00:47:39] WE'RE GOING TO BUILD ON THE OTHER SIDE. ALL RIGHT.
[00:47:41] THANK YOU. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR QUESTION. YES, SIR.
[00:47:45] YOUR NEXT SO I WAS GOING TO SAY
[00:47:48] SO BASICALLY, IF BLACK AND WHITE
[00:47:52] AMERICANS POLITICALLY CANNOT
[00:47:54] HAVE A COMMON EYE ON THINGS LIKE
[00:47:57] COME TO SOME KIND OF AGREED, SOME KIND OF AGREEMENT, THEN
[00:48:00] PEOPLE FROM OTHER COUNTRIES, AS
[00:48:04] THEY'RE NOT GOING TO BE, IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. ALL RIGHT.
[00:48:07] I LOVE THIS POINT.
[00:48:08] I FEEL THIS ENTIRELY BECAUSE AS
[00:48:13] SOMEONE WHO WORKS A LOT ON GLOBAL ISSUES AND HAS A LOT OF
[00:48:17] FRIENDS AROUND THE WORLD, INCLUDING FRIENDS WHO'VE COMPLETELY GIVEN UP ON AMERICA,
[00:48:22] YOU KNOW WHAT I SAY TO THEM IS THE REASON YOU SHOULD CARE ABOUT
[00:48:25] WHETHER WE CAN GET IT RIGHT IS BECAUSE EVERYBODY'S HERE.
[00:48:28] I MEAN, WE ARE THE WORLD IN MINIATURE.
[00:48:31] AND IF WE CAN WORK IT OUT, THE
[00:48:34] WORLD ISN'T GOING TO WORK IT OUT. AND ACTUALLY, I THINK THERE'S A CORRELATION BETWEEN THE
[00:48:40] DYSFUNCTION AND DIVISION AND POLARIZATION IN OUR COUNTRY AND WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THE WORLD
[00:48:44] LIKE THERE'S A KIND OF INTANGIBLE CONNECTION BETWEEN THOSE THINGS AND AGAIN, IF YOU
[00:48:48] LOOK AT, THOUGH, OUR HISTORY, I
[00:48:51] WAS STRUCK BACK, YOU KNOW, AFTER
[00:48:56] 2020, AFTER THE BACKLASH TO
[00:49:02] 2020, I, I WENT BACK THROUGH
[00:49:05] HISTORY AND GUESS WHAT THE DOMINANT ISSUE IS IN AMERICAN HISTORY?
[00:49:09] IT'S BLACK WHITE RELATION REALLY
[00:49:13] IS.
[00:49:13] AND AND AND FRANKLY, WHEN WE ARE
[00:49:17] ABLE TO DEMONSTRATE OUR CAPAC
[00:49:20] CITY TO ADDRESS THOSE ISSUES
[00:49:22] CONSTRUCTIVELY, IT IS ACTUALLY
[00:49:24] CONSISTENTLY HAD A POSITIVE
[00:49:27] IMPACT NOT JUST ON THIS COUNTRY BUT ON THE WORLD.
[00:49:31] THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT WAS SYNERGISTIC WITH THE LIBERATION
[00:49:36] MOVEMENTS ACROSS THE COLONIAL WORLD IN THE 1950S AND 60S.
[00:49:39] FOR INSTANCE, IT'S ARE YOU IN MY LAST THING?
[00:49:41] IS THAT ALSO NOT MY BEST NIGERIAN?
[00:49:45] MY WIFE IS AMERICAN, SO I'M LIVING MY AFRICAN AMERICAN. YEAH.
[00:49:47] BUT WHEN PEOPLE COME HERE, I
[00:49:51] THINK A LOT OF INTERNATIONALS NEED TO LEARN HOW TO BE MORE HUMBLE WHEN THEY DEAL WITH
[00:49:55] AMERICANS. I'M AN AMERICAN. I CONSIDER MYSELF AMERICAN.
[00:49:57] A LOT OF INTERNATIONALS NEED TO LEARN HOW TO BE HUMBLE. THAT'S ALL I THINK.
[00:50:01] WELL, YEAH. AND TO THINK VERY PRIDEFUL. YEAH.
[00:50:05] MIGHT BE SCARED AWAY, YOUR FLAG AND ALL THAT, BUT BE MORE HUMBLE
[00:50:08] BECAUSE YOU KNOW. YEAH. RESPECT WHERE YOU ARE. YEAH.
[00:50:11] BUT I AND I THINK THAT AND LOOK, A LOT OF THE SPEECHES I DEALT
[00:50:14] WITH THIS YOU KNOW LOUIS BRANDEIS GAVE A SPEECH THAT WAS
[00:50:18] INTERESTING. IT WAS A COMBINATION OF
[00:50:22] ASSIMILATION IN SOME RESPECTS,
[00:50:25] BUT VALUING THE DISTINCT NESS OF
[00:50:28] CULTURES BEING PRESENT HERE.
[00:50:30] LIKE IT'S THAT BALANCE BETWEEN WE ACTUALLY ARE, IT'S BETTER.
[00:50:34] IMAGINE HOW BORING THIS COUNTRY WAS IF WE DIDN'T. WE DIDN'T HAVE ALL THESE PEOPLE
[00:50:37] WHO COME HERE AND ENRICHED IT WITH THEIR FOOD AND THEIR MUSIC AND THEIR TRADITIONS.
[00:50:42] RIGHT. AT THE SAME TIME. THERE NEEDS TO BE A COMMON NATIONAL IDENTITY IN THIS
[00:50:45] COUNTRY THAT EVERYBODY FEELS THAT THEY SHARE IN SOME WAY.
[00:50:48] THAT'S HARDER TODAY BECAUSE THERE'S NOT A MONOCULTURE ANYMORE. YOU KNOW, WE'RE NOT ALL WATCHING
[00:50:52] THE SAME TV AND GOING TO THE SAME MOVIES. YOU KNOW, IT'S KIND OF SPORTS
[00:50:56] AND TAILOR STUDIED. MAYBE THEY'RE NOT, YOU KNOW. YEAH. AND MY NEXT YEAH BUT BUT THE BUT
[00:50:59] BUT AGAIN WE CAN DO THIS LIKE
[00:51:02] WE'VE DONE IT BEFORE I IT'D BE
[00:51:07] CRAZY TO GIVE UP ON IT. YOU KNOW WHAT WHAT WHAT THE TRUMPS OF THE WORLD WHEN YOU
[00:51:11] THINK IS THEY WANT YOU TO BE CYNICAL OR AN APATHETIC CYNICAL
[00:51:15] NOTHING REALLY MATTERS OR APATHETIC. NOTHING CAN CHANGE. AND YOU KNOW, LOOK AT THIS.
[00:51:18] I MEAN, AGAIN, LOOK AT THE BOOK. LOOK AT HISTORY. LIKE THAT'S NOT TRUE.
[00:51:22] LIKE THINGS HAVE CHANGED AND THEY CAN CHANGE AGAIN. ALL RIGHT.
[00:51:26] SO THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR QUESTION. THANK YOU.
[00:51:28] THEY HAVE ALL OH, YEAH. YOU.
[00:51:32] HELLO. FIRST, I WANT TO SAY CONGRATULATE WINS FOR THE KNICKS
[00:51:35] RIGHT NOW. THAT'S VERY EXCITING FOR YOU. YOU ALSO HAVE TO FORGIVE ME.
[00:51:38] I'M I'M A RED SOX FAN, BUT I HOPE YOU'LL BEAR WITH ME.
[00:51:42] SO THERE ARE A LOT OF COMPARISONS TO BE MADE TO THE
[00:51:45] QUESTION I'M ABOUT TO ASK. HISTORY PARALLELS, COMPARISONS,
[00:51:49] SIMILARITIES, WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL IT. BUT YOU WRITE A BOOK ABOUT
[00:51:52] AMERICAN IDENTITY, AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE EXACT NUMBER IS,
[00:51:56] WHETHER IT'S 20% OR 30%, BUT
[00:51:57] THERE IS A IN A COUNTRY OF 327 MILLION AMERICAN BOYS, THERE'S A
[00:52:03] SIZABLE PORTION OF AMERICANS WHO
[00:52:05] ARE PART OF DONALD TRUMP'S BASE.
[00:52:07] AND MY QUESTION IS, HOW DO WE AS
[00:52:09] A SOCIETY RECKON WITH SUCH A LARGE PORTION OF PEOPLE
[00:52:14] FUNDAMENTALLY NOT BELIEVING IN THE TRUTH? YEAH, I THINK THIS IS THE MOST
[00:52:18] DIFFICULT THING THAT THE ABSENCE OF TRUTH.
[00:52:21] I DO WANT TO SAY, YOU KNOW,
[00:52:24] OBAMA USED TO REMIND US, YOU KNOW, 30% OF THIS COUNTRY WOULD
[00:52:28] HAVE VOTED FOR GEORGE WALLACE. YOU KNOW, THERE WAS A
[00:52:32] CONFEDERACY IN THIS COUNTRY LIKE. SO THE IDEA THAT THERE'S EVER
[00:52:34] GOING TO BE 100% BUY IN TO WHAT
[00:52:36] I WOULD THINK TO BE A SET OF
[00:52:38] VALUES, YOU KNOW, I'M SURE THOSE
[00:52:41] PEOPLE THINK I'M CRAZY, TOO. I'M SURE THOSE PEOPLE ARE LIKE, I CAN'T BELIEVE I HAVE TO SHARE
[00:52:45] A COUNTRY WITH BEN RHODES. YOU KNOW? BUT BUT I ACTUALLY DO THINK IT'S
[00:52:49] AN IMPORTANT POINT.
[00:52:51] IT'S IT'S ONE THING TO HAVE
[00:52:53] DISAGREEMENTS ABOUT POLICY AND
[00:52:56] DIRECTION AND EVEN IDENTITY.
[00:52:59] BUT WHEN THERE'S DISAGREEMENT
[00:53:02] ABOUT REALITY, THAT'S WHEN THINGS GET REALLY DANGEROUS AND
[00:53:06] WEIRD. AND THAT'S KIND OF WHERE WE ARE
[00:53:08] RIGHT NOW TO BE.
[00:53:12] AND ACTUALLY, I LIKE I'LL MAKE TWO POINTS ABOUT THAT.
[00:53:16] THINGS TO DO ABOUT THAT. AND THERE'S MANY MORE THAN TWO THINGS. ONE IS I AGAIN, I DO THINK THAT
[00:53:21] HAVING, YOU KNOW, LEADERSHIP
[00:53:26] THAT NARRATES TRUTHFULLY WHAT IS
[00:53:30] HAPPENING, I MEAN, I OBAMA'S
[00:53:34] JOB. YES, YOU DO POLICY. HE WAS KIND OF THE NATIONAL NARRATOR.
[00:53:38] YOU KNOW, THERE'S A TRAGEDY. I'M GOING TO GO PUT THAT INTO WORDS.
[00:53:41] THERE'S AN ACHIEVEMENT. I'M GOING TO PUT THAT IN TWO WORDS.
[00:53:43] REAGAN DID THIS VERY WELL, EVEN THOUGH I DIDN'T AGREE WITH REAGAN.
[00:53:47] I MEAN, HE KIND OF NARRATES EVENTS, RIGHT?
[00:53:49] WE NOW HAVE A NARRATOR WHO LIES
[00:53:53] HABITUALLY, AND THERE'S AN
[00:53:55] OSMOSIS TO OUR KIDS, YOU KNOW, I
[00:54:00] WONDER WHAT THE IMPACT IS OF
[00:54:02] SEEING THE MOST POWERFUL ADULTS BE REWARDED FOR LYING.
[00:54:06] AS A PARENT, THAT CONCERNS ME.
[00:54:08] SO, NUMBER ONE, TO BE GREAT, TO HAVE DIFFERENT KIND OF LEADERSHIP.
[00:54:11] BUT SECOND IS TECHNOLOGY, BECAUSE PART OF THE REASON WHY
[00:54:14] IT'S EASIER TO LIVE IN TRUTH IS
[00:54:16] YOU CAN BE FED INFORMATION THAT
[00:54:18] IS MADE TO BE A MADE TO APPEAR
[00:54:22] TO BE CREDIBLE, WHETHER IT'S
[00:54:26] BECAUSE OF THE ALGORITHM OR BECAUSE OF ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE, WHICH LITERALLY
[00:54:29] CAN MAKE SOMEONE LOOK LIKE THEY'RE SAYING SOMETHING THEY DIDN'T.
[00:54:33] AND WE HAVE TO GET OUR ARMS AROUND THAT FROM A POLICY PERSPECTIVE.
[00:54:37] THERE NEEDS TO BE A REGULATORY APPROACH TO SOCIAL MEDIA AND
[00:54:39] ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE THAT IS WAY OVERDUE, THAT HAS, AGAIN,
[00:54:45] NOT LIKE, YOU KNOW, A WOKE
[00:54:47] AGENDA, BUT LIKE A TRUTH AGENDA. ALL RIGHT.
[00:54:50] THANK YOU, SIR, VERY MUCH. YES, MA'AM. HI.
[00:54:53] OKAY. SO FIRST, I GREW UP ON THE RIGHT
[00:54:57] AND MY MOM IS A MEGA MOM AND SO
[00:54:59] THE LEVEL OF DISSENT FROM ASIA AND LIKE PROPAGANDA ZATION THAT
[00:55:04] COMES FROM FOX NEWS LIKE I CAN'T COMBAT IT. SO I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING FOR
[00:55:07] PEOPLE TO REALLY UNDERSTAND.
[00:55:09] BUT ONE OF THE THINGS I WANTED TO ASK ABOUT WAS GOING BACK TO
[00:55:14] YOUR, YOU KNOW, THE NEXT DEMOCRAT NEEDS TO BE LIKE, GIVE GOOD SPEECHES, RIGHT?
[00:55:18] AND I THINK THERE'S A PIECE TO THAT WHERE IN ORDER TO GIVE A
[00:55:21] GOOD SPEECH WHERE PEOPLE FEEL IT IS, YOU HAVE TO FEEL IT.
[00:55:24] AND SO LOOKING AT THE DEMOCRAT PARTY LIKE YOU HAVE A LOT OF
[00:55:28] WHAT I SEE HOLLOWNESS LIKE I
[00:55:30] WORK IN CONGRESS LIKE I'M A FAKE LOBBYIST BECAUSE I LOBBY FOR
[00:55:33] HUMAN RIGHTS AND I DO IT FOR FREE.
[00:55:38] AND AND SO LAST YEAR, LOBBYISTS
[00:55:40] LAST YEAR I WAS WORKING ON A
[00:55:43] LETTER FOR AN AMERICAN CHILD WHO WAS BEING HELD IN MILITARY DETENTION.
[00:55:47] AND I ONLY GOT 27, 14 SENATORS AND 13 IN THE HOUSE TO SIGN IT.
[00:55:52] AND WHICH YOU WISH YOU WOULD SAY AYE.
[00:55:54] AMERICAN CHILD HELD IN A FOREIGN
[00:55:56] GULAG LIKE, YOU KNOW, WHY IS
[00:55:59] THAT NOT 535 SIGNATURES? AND IT'S BECAUSE THE CHILD WAS
[00:56:03] ABDUCTED IN THE WEST BANK AND HE WAS BEING HELD IN ISRAEL.
[00:56:05] AND THAT'S BECAUSE OF THE SPECIAL INTERESTS INVOLVED.
[00:56:09] AND SO, YOU KNOW, YOU LOOK AT A CORY BOOKER, HE MAYBE CAN GIVE A
[00:56:12] GOOD SPEECH IN THE MINDS OF SOME PEOPLE, BUT IT'S HOLLOW AND IT'S
[00:56:16] EMPTY. AND THERE ARE ONLY A FEW DEMOCRATS THAT ARE WALKING THE WALK.
[00:56:19] THERE ARE NO REPUBLICANS ANYMORE WALKING THE WALK. AND SO I FEEL LIKE THAT IS A
[00:56:23] CRUCIAL PIECE THAT NEEDS TO BE A PART OF THIS. SO I TOTALLY AGREE.
[00:56:26] AND LET ME BE CLEAR ABOUT ONE
[00:56:28] THING, WHICH IS IT'S NOT SO MUCH
[00:56:32] JUST GIVING A GOOD SPEECH.
[00:56:36] IT'S BECAUSE I THOUGHT A LOT ABOUT WHAT IS A GOOD SPEECH, RIGHT.
[00:56:39] TO ME, I SPENT IN EACH CHAPTER.
[00:56:41] WE SPEND A LOT OF TIME WITH THE LIFE OF THE PERSON AND THE
[00:56:45] MOVEMENTS THAT ATTRACTED THE PERSON.
[00:56:47] AND THE REASON WHY IS I BELIEVE THE BEST SPEECHES.
[00:56:51] THEY MAY ACTUALLY NOT HAVE THE
[00:56:54] POWER AND DELIVERY OF THE I HAVE A DREAM SPEECH.
[00:56:57] THE PERSON DELIVERING THE SPEECH HAS TO BE THE ONLY PERSON ALIVE
[00:57:00] WHO COULD SAY THOSE WORDS. IT HAS TO KIND OF IT NEATLY COME
[00:57:03] OUT OF NOT JUST WHAT THEY WANT
[00:57:05] TO DO, BUT WHY DO THEY WANT TO DO THAT?
[00:57:08] OBAMA USED TO ALSO TELL US SOMETIMES THAT IN ORDER TO WIN
[00:57:12] AN ELECTION, YOU NEED TO CONVEY
[00:57:14] TO PEOPLE WHAT YOU'RE WILLING TO LOSE. AN ELECTION OVER.
[00:57:18] THERE'S SOMETHING YOU'RE WILLING TO LOSE FOR TO TO TO TO WADE
[00:57:22] INTO THE MINEFIELD HERE AND GET
[00:57:24] SPECIFIC TO YOUR QUESTION.
[00:57:27] ONE THING THAT ZORAN MAMDANI HAD
[00:57:29] IN HIS CAMPAIGN AND HE WAS AT 1%
[00:57:33] AND, YOU KNOW, IT WAS ACTUALLY
[00:57:35] ISRAEL THAT STARTED TO BUILD HIS
[00:57:37] SUPPORT AND THEN HE STARTED
[00:57:39] GETTING ATTACKED BY CUOMO AND ALL OF THESE POWERFUL INTERESTS
[00:57:43] SAYING, OH, THIS GUY IS RADICAL AND OH, MY GOD, YOU'LL NEVER BE
[00:57:47] LED NEAR POWER. THE FACT THAT HE WOULD NOT
[00:57:51] CHANGE HIS POSITIONS ON ISRAEL
[00:57:55] MADE HIS AFFORDABILITY AGENDA
[00:57:57] CREDIBLE BECAUSE THEY'RE LIKE THIS GUY.
[00:58:01] WHETHER YOU AGREE WITH HIM OR NOT.
[00:58:03] IRONICALLY, THIS GUY IS NOT
[00:58:07] AFRAID OF GETTING CRITICIZED. HE'S NOT AFRAID OF POWERFUL
[00:58:10] INTERESTS COMING AFTER HIM. SO WHEN HE TELLS ME HE'S GOING
[00:58:14] TO LOWER MY PRICES, I'M MORE WILLING TO BELIEVE THAT THAT GUY
[00:58:17] IS GOING TO FIGHT TO DO THAT. THEN MAYBE WHEN CORY BOOKER
[00:58:20] TELLS ME, BECAUSE I DON'T THINK
[00:58:24] HE'S OWNED THAT'S A STRONG WORD.
[00:58:26] BUT LIKE LIKE YOU SEE WHAT I'M GETTING AT?
[00:58:30] LIKE, I AGREE WITH IT.
[00:58:31] YOU KNOW, HE HE HE AND AND
[00:58:35] AGAIN, I AND BY THE WAY, IT DOESN'T MEAN EVERYBODY HAS TO
[00:58:38] HAVE MY VIEW ON ISRAEL OR THE POINT IS THAT ON ISSUE AFTER
[00:58:43] ISSUE, I THINK PEOPLE SOMETIMES LOOK AT DEMOCRATS AND THEY FEEL A CAUTION.
[00:58:46] THEY FEEL A WARINESS OF UPSETTING.
[00:58:50] MAYBE IT'S A SPECIAL INTEREST GROUP, BUT MAYBE ITS
[00:58:54] CONSTITUENTS, A GROUP, TOO. I MEAN, MAYBE IT'S IT'S YOU KNOW, TO TAKE A DIFFERENT
[00:58:58] PERSPECTIVE, MAYBE YOU'RE AFRAID OF OF OFFENDING A CONSTITUENCY
[00:59:01] GROUP THAT IS TO YOUR LEFT AS WELL. RIGHT. SO BUT ACTUALLY, ULTIMATELY, I
[00:59:05] THINK EVERYBODY WILL HAVE MORE
[00:59:07] RESPECT FOR YOU IF YOU AND
[00:59:11] FRANKLY, IT'S SOMETHING THAT TRUMP, YOU KNOW, HIS WILLINGNESS
[00:59:13] TO -- POWERFUL PEOPLE GAVE HIM A
[00:59:16] CERTAIN CREDIBILITY WITH PEOPLE
[00:59:18] WHO DIDN'T HAVE POWER BECAUSE THEY'RE LIKE, WELL, WELL, THIS
[00:59:21] GUY'S WILLING, YOU KNOW, THE
[00:59:24] MOMENT IN THE DEBATE, I REMEMBER 2016 WHERE HE'S LIKE, YOU KNOW,
[00:59:27] EVERYBODY ELSE ON THE STAGE IS OWNED BY SOMEBODY. YOU KNOW.
[00:59:31] NOW IT TURNS OUT TRUMP IS, YOU
[00:59:33] KNOW, LIKE, LET'S COUNT THE
[00:59:35] NUMBER OF PEOPLE THAT ARE MAKING BILLIONS OF DOLLARS.
[00:59:38] WELL, YOU KNOW, HE'S LIFTING RESTRICTIONS ON ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE AND WHAT HAVE YOU.
[00:59:42] YOU KNOW, BUT I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT.
[00:59:44] AND SO THE POINT OF IT'S THE CAPACITY TO TELL AN AUTHENTIC
[00:59:48] STORY THAT PEOPLE BELIEVE.
[00:59:50] YOU KNOW, IT HELPS IF IT'S A
[00:59:52] GREAT SPEECH, BUT IT AT COURT
[00:59:55] HAS TO HAVE THAT AUTHENTICITY. ALL RIGHT. THANKS. THANKS FOR YOUR QUESTION.
[00:59:58] I'M GOING TO APOLOGIZE TO THE PEOPLE WHO ARE WAITING BECAUSE WE'RE AFTER 8:00.
[01:00:02] AND I KNOW YOU WERE GOING TO HAVE WONDERFUL QUESTIONS, BUT I'M GOING TO ASK THE LAST
[01:00:06] QUESTION BECAUSE I'VE GOT THE MICROPHONE.
[01:00:08] SO OF OF ALL THESE SPEECHES THAT
[01:00:11] YOU'VE SEEN AND READ IN YOUR
[01:00:13] BOOK AND ELSEWHERE, WHICH SPEECH
[01:00:15] THAT YOU DID NOT WRITE, DO YOU
[01:00:18] THINK IS YOUR FAVORITE SPEECH IS
[01:00:20] THE ONE YOU JUST THINK IS SO GREAT?
[01:00:22] WHAT SPEECH WOULD THAT BE.
[01:00:29] WELL, HONESTLY, LIKE, MY
[01:00:31] FAVORITE IS LINCOLN'S SECOND
[01:00:34] INAUGURAL, BUT I'LL GIVE A DIFFERENT ANSWER TO BE SOMETHING
[01:00:37] MORE INTERESTING.
[01:00:40] I, I THINK PEOPLE SHOULD READ
[01:00:42] THE SPEECH BY RED JACKET.
[01:00:45] JUST ACTUALLY BY THE BOOK AND READ IT.
[01:00:48] I WAS ABOUT TO SAY GOOGLE IT,
[01:00:50] YOU KNOW, BUT BUT IT'S SHORT.
[01:00:55] THIS SPEECH SOUNDS LIKE IT WAS GIVEN YESTERDAY. IT'S THE MOST EXTRAORDINARY
[01:00:59] THING THE SENECA HAVE LOST JUST
[01:01:02] ABOUT EVERYTHING.
[01:01:04] THEY'VE LOST MOST OF THEIR LAND,
[01:01:08] YOU KNOW, THEIR COMMUNITY HAS
[01:01:10] BEEN RIVEN BY ALCOHOL BRIBES,
[01:01:13] EVERYBODY, YOU KNOW, THE WHITE PEOPLE ARE COMING BACK FROM WAR
[01:01:16] AND COMING BACK FROM WAR AND COMING BACK FROM WAR.
[01:01:19] AND AND THERE'S THIS MISSIONARY WHO'S THERE WITH A REPRESENTATIVE.
[01:01:23] THE US GOVERNMENT KIND OF LOOKING OVER HER SHOULDER SAYING, YOU KNOW, HEY, LET HIM IN.
[01:01:26] HE WANTS TO CONVERT YOU TO THIS NEWS. AND THE GUY, THE MISSIONARY
[01:01:30] SAYS, WE'RE JUST HERE TO TELL YOU HOW TO WORSHIP THE GREAT SPIRIT IN A DIFFERENT WAY,
[01:01:34] BECAUSE THE GREAT SPIRIT'S SON IS JESUS. YOU KNOW, IT'S KIND OF CYNICAL.
[01:01:38] AND WHAT THIS GUY DOES IS HE IN
[01:01:40] VERY ECONOMICAL, SIMPLE LANGUAGE.
[01:01:43] HE'S LIKE, LET ME TELL YOU THE STORY OF MY PEOPLE.
[01:01:47] WE WERE HERE AND IT WAS GREAT. WE HAD ALL THIS LAND AND WE WERE HAPPY.
[01:01:51] WE HAD NO PRIVATE PROPERTY BECAUSE WE SHARED EVERYTHING.
[01:01:54] AND THEN YOU ALL ARRIVED.
[01:01:57] WE WERE VERY NICE TO YOU.
[01:01:59] WE GAVE YOU MEAT, WE GAVE YOU
[01:02:02] SHELTER, AND YOU GAVE US POISON.
[01:02:07] AND. AND THEN HE TALKS ABOUT HOW
[01:02:11] THERE IS JUST MORE AND MORE TAKING AND YOU KEPT COMING BACK
[01:02:13] FOR MORE AND.
[01:02:17] AND THEN HE SAYS SOMETHING FASCINATING.
[01:02:19] HE SAYS, IF AND HE SAID, NOW YOU'RE COMING FOR OUR RELIGION.
[01:02:24] AND HE SAID, IF THE GREAT SPIRIT
[01:02:26] INTENDED FOR EVERYBODY TO
[01:02:28] WORSHIP THE SAME WAY, WHY DON'T
[01:02:32] YOU ALL EVEN AGREE ABOUT WHICH BOOK TO USE?
[01:02:36] WHY HAVE YOU ALL FOUGHT WARS
[01:02:38] WITH EACH OTHER, ABOUT WHICH PART OF YOUR RELIGION IS RIGHT?
[01:02:42] MAYBE THE GREAT SPIRIT INTENDED FOR EVERYBODY TO WORSHIP HIM IN
[01:02:45] DIFFERENT WAYS. AND WHAT STILL REMARKABLE ABOUT
[01:02:50] IT IS IT'S A CASE NOT JUST FOR
[01:02:54] THE MAINTENANCE AND SUSTAINMENT OF SENECA TRADITIONS.
[01:02:57] IT'S A CASE FOR PLURALISM. HE'S SAYING, I GOT NO PROBLEM
[01:03:01] WITH YOUR RELIGION. WHY DON'T YOU LET ME HAVE MINE?
[01:03:05] AND THE REASON BEYOND IT JUST BEING A BRILLIANT SPEECH, IT'S
[01:03:09] SO POWERFUL TO ME IS BECAUSE THAT'S A PART OF AMERICAN
[01:03:13] IDENTITY TOO, THAT INDIGENOUS
[01:03:16] IDEA OF PLURALISM OF OF
[01:03:21] TRADITION, OF LINEAGE, THAT'S AS
[01:03:24] MUCH AMERICAN AS A WHITE
[01:03:29] CHRISTIAN FOUNDING FATHER, YOU
[01:03:29] KNOW, WHO MIGHT BE REVERED MUCH
[01:03:35] MORE THAN RED JACKET. AND THAT I TAKE THAT FROM THE
[01:03:38] BOOK THAT WE ARE THE SUM TOTAL
[01:03:41] OF ALL OF THESE PEOPLE AND ALL
[01:03:43] THE WORDS THAT THEY'VE SPOKEN,
[01:03:46] THE WORDS ENTER OUR NATIONAL
[01:03:49] SUBCONSCIOUS, WHICH IS WHY
[01:03:51] PEOPLE NEED TO CONTINUE TO BELIEVE THAT WORDS MATTER.
[01:03:55] BUT BEN RHODES, CONGRATULATIONS
[01:03:56] ON YOUR NEW BOOK.
[01:04:04] HERE'S A PORTION OF A RECENT PROGRAM ON BOOK TV.
[01:04:08] SO IN AMERICAN GRAMMAR, I ARGUE
[01:04:10] THAT US EDUCATION HAS BEEN A KEY
[01:04:12] SITE FOR THE RELATIONAL FORMATION OF RACE.
[01:04:17] THAT THROUGH THE 19TH ENTRY PROTOCOL, ALL OF US EDUCATION
[01:04:21] HAD DIFFERING EFFECTS ON THREE DIFFERENT RACIALIZED GROUPS
[01:04:25] BLACK NATIVE AND WHITE.
[01:04:28] THREE DISTINCT RACIALIZED EXPERIENCES AS BUT ALL
[01:04:31] INTIMATELY INTERTWINED AND THE
[01:04:33] POLITICAL ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT OF THE NATION.
[01:04:37] THE CRIMINALIZING OF BLACK EDUCATION IN THE EARLY REPUBLIC
[01:04:41] REINFORCED THE EXTRACTION OF LABOR AND VALUE FROM CAPTIVE
[01:04:44] AFRICAN BODIES. THE VIOLENT IMPOSITION OF US
[01:04:48] SPONSORED NATIVE EDUCATION WAS AN EXTENSION OF THE AMERICAN
[01:04:52] INDIAN WARS AND ULTIMATELY A MEANS FOR DISRUPTING TRIBAL
[01:04:55] CLAIMS TO LAND IN ORDER TO CLEAR
[01:04:58] A PATH FOR CONTINUAL NATIONAL EXPANSION.
[01:05:00] THE DEVELOPMENT OF WHITE COMMON SCHOOLING SOUGHT TO RECONCILE
[01:05:06] COMPETING INTERESTS AMONG DIVERSE EUROPEAN ETHNIC GROUPS,
[01:05:09] ALL TOWARDS SECURING THE FUTURE OF THE NEW REPUBLIC.
[01:05:12] THIS WAS DONE BY CRAFTING A
[01:05:15] SINGULAR NATIONAL IDENTITY, ONE THAT WAS ENGLISH SPEAKING WHITE
[01:05:19] AND PROTESTANT. SO AGAIN, AMERICAN GRAMMAR
[01:05:24] PRESENTS AN INTERPRETATION OF THESE SEEMINGLY PARALLEL RACIAL
[01:05:28] PROJECTS AS RELATIONAL AS HAVING INFORMED ONE ANOTHER.
[01:05:32] AND IN DOING SO, IT REVEALS HOW EVEN WHEN BLACK AND NATIVE
[01:05:36] PEOPLE WERE NOT PHYSICALLY IN THE COMMON SCHOOL CLASSROOM FOR
[01:05:39] WHITE STUDENTS, THEY WERE INTEGRAL TO ITS DEVELOPMENT.
[01:05:43] BECAUSE THE POLITICAL AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT OF SUCH
[01:05:45] SCHOOLS EXTENDED DIRECTLY FROM
[01:05:48] THE SUBJUGATION OF BLACK AND
[01:05:50] NATIVE PEOPLE JUST AS RACIAL
[01:05:54] SLAVERY INFORMED MECHANISMS OF LAW AND POLICY PERTAINING TO
[01:05:57] BLACK EDUCATION.
[01:05:59] AND JUST AS SETTLER DESIRES FOR
[01:06:01] INDIGENOUS LANDS MOTIVATED THE
[01:06:03] DISTINCT EDUCATIONAL POLICIES AND PRACTICES IMPOSED ON NATIVE
[01:06:07] COMMUNITIES. THESE STRUCTURAL MANIFESTATIONS OF BLACK AND NATIVE
[01:06:12] DISPOSSESSION ALSO SHAPED THE FORM AND FUNCTION OF WHITE
[01:06:17] EDUCATION. IN, FOR INSTANCE, AMERICAN
[01:06:20] GRAMMAR REVEALS HOW POLITICAL
[01:06:22] LEADERS SOLD UNCEDED NATIVE LAND
[01:06:25] TO GENERATE REVENUE TO ESTABLISH
[01:06:27] EARLY SCHOOL FUNDS ACROSS STATES IN THE NORTHEAST AND EVEN ACROSS
[01:06:30] THE SOUTH. AND IT TRACES HOW SUCH PRACTICE
[01:06:34] IS EMERGED AS THE PRIMARY METHOD FOR EXPANDED PUBLIC EDUCATION
[01:06:38] NATIONALLY. AFTER WHAT'S KNOWN AS THE LAND
[01:06:42] ORDINANCE OF 1785. THE BOOK ALSO CHARTS HOW THESE
[01:06:45] EARLY STATES LITERARY AND
[01:06:48] EDUCATIONAL FUNDS WERE THEN INVESTED IN BANKS WITH DIRECT
[01:06:51] LINKS TO THE SLAVE TRADE IN ORDER TO EXPAND RESOURCES FOR
[01:06:55] WHITE SCHOOLING AND IN OTHER INSTANCE, INSTANCES. THE BOOK SHAPES,