CSPAN3 — Michael Gerhardt FDRs Mentors
20260829 190300 UTC
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[00:00:02] DO BUSINESS WITH THE NAZIS
[00:00:06] ACCORDING TO THEIR RULES.
[00:00:08] WE WILL NOT LET IT STAND.
[00:00:12] SO WHENEVER I SAY HEAR THINGS
[00:00:14] ABOUT, OH, ROOSEVELT WANTING TO
[00:00:18] AVOID GETTING INTO THE WAR, OR THAT IT WAS WHAT THE WAY THAT HE
[00:00:22] MADE HIS FEELINGS KNOWN TO PEOPLE IN HOLLYWOOD COULD NOT
[00:00:25] HAVE BEEN MORE CLEAR. AND THIS IS ONE OF THE REASONS
[00:00:28] WHY SO MANY FILMS WERE COMING
[00:00:30] OUT THAT SUPPORTED THE BRITISH
[00:00:34] AND SORT OF OPPOSING THE NAZIS. SOMETIMES IN VERY SOPHISTICATED
[00:00:38] WAYS. BUT THAT'S BUT IT'S A GREAT POINT.
[00:00:40] AND AND FRANK CAPRA DID IT
[00:00:43] AMAZING JOB IN AMAZING JOB. HE'S REALLY THE BEST PERSON TO
[00:00:47] DO IT. BUT IT HAD BEEN SET UP A LITTLE BIT EARLIER.
[00:00:51] THANK YOU FOR. ALL RIGHT.
[00:00:55] THANK YOU. THANK YOU, DAVE.
[00:00:58] MICHAEL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
[00:01:10] NO. NEXT, MORE FROM HYDE PARK, NEW
[00:01:14] YORK, AND THE ROOSEVELT READING FESTIVAL.
[00:01:18] GOOD AFTERNOON, FOLKS.
[00:01:20] MY NAME IS DONNA CORNING AND I'M
[00:01:22] A DOCENT AT THE FDR LIBRARY.
[00:01:25] AND ON BEHALF OF THE ROOSEVELT LIBRARY, I'D LIKE TO WELCOME YOU
[00:01:29] TO THIS SESSION THIS AFTERNOON.
[00:01:33] AND I IMAGINE YOU'VE BEEN HERE BEFORE OR FOR THE OTHER
[00:01:36] SESSIONS, BUT JUST LET ME QUICKLY RUN THROUGH THE FORMAT.
[00:01:39] IT'S THE SAME WE'RE GOING TO
[00:01:42] HAVE OH, 30 TO 40 MINUTES OF OUR
[00:01:46] PRESENTATION AND THEN WE'RE GOING TO HAVE APPROXIMATELY TEN MINUTES FOR A QUESTION.
[00:01:51] AND ANSWER. AND WE REALLY HOPE YOU WILL DO THAT. AND THEN WE'RE INVITING YOU TO
[00:01:54] GO DOWN TO THE STUDIO BOOKSTORE, CONTINUE CONVERSATIONS WITH OUR
[00:01:59] AUTHOR AND POSSIBLY PURCHASE A
[00:02:02] BOOK, GET IT AUTOGRAPHED. I DID THAT.
[00:02:06] SO SO LET ME INTRODUCE OUR
[00:02:09] SPEAKER FOR THIS AFTERNOON. I'M REALLY EXCITED ABOUT THIS.
[00:02:12] PROFESSOR MICHAEL GERHART IS THE
[00:02:16] BURTON CRAIG DINGUS, DISTINGUISHED PROFESSOR OF
[00:02:21] JURISPRUDENCE, UNCI CHAPEL HILL.
[00:02:23] HIS EXPERTISE IS PRESIDENTIAL CONGRESSIONAL CONFLICTS.
[00:02:28] HE HAS PUBLISHED TEN BOOKS AND
[00:02:30] IS THE AUTHOR OF 50 YEAR MEMOIRS NAVIGATING THE PATH TO GREATNESS, WHICH HE'S GOING TO
[00:02:34] SPEAK TO US ABOUT THIS AFTERNOON.
[00:02:38] HE IS CURRENTLY WORKING ON A NEW STUDY OF THE HISTORY OF THE
[00:02:42] PRINCIPLE. NO ONE IS GIVEN THAT NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW.
[00:02:46] HE HAS TESTIFIED MORE THAN 20
[00:02:48] TIMES BEFORE CONGRESS ADVISED
[00:02:51] TWO PRESIDENTS ON IMPEACHMENT AND SERVED AS SPECIAL COUNSEL TO
[00:02:55] THE SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE FOR SIX SUPREME COURT
[00:03:00] NOMINATIONS AND SERVED AS SPECIAL COUNSEL TO THE PRESIDING
[00:03:03] OFFICER IN PRESIDENT TRUMP'S SECOND IMPEACHMENT TRIAL.
[00:03:07] SO LET'S GIVE PROFESSOR GERHART
[00:03:10] A WARM WELCOME.
[00:03:22] LET ME START BY THANKING ALL OF
[00:03:24] YOU FOR BEING HERE. I'M REALLY GRATEFUL FOR THAT.
[00:03:28] IT'S A GREAT HONOR TO BE HERE, ESPECIALLY WITH SO MANY OTHER
[00:03:32] GREAT BOOKS, AS WELL AS A BEAUTIFUL DAY.
[00:03:35] SO I DON'T WANT TO KEEP YOU FROM ENJOYING ALL THAT.
[00:03:40] AND I FEEL LUCKY BECAUSE I
[00:03:43] SOMEHOW SLIP THROUGH AND GOT,
[00:03:45] YOU KNOW, GOT ON THE SCHEDULE
[00:03:47] AND APPARENTLY WHEN THAT
[00:03:49] HAPPENED, I CONTINUE FOR CHAPEL
[00:03:52] HILL, NORTH CAROLINA, MADE THEIR
[00:03:54] WAY HERE.
[00:03:59] SO I HAVE THE, I GUESS, THE
[00:04:02] UNIQUENESS OF HAVING I JUST DISCOVERED THIS A FAN CLUB.
[00:04:08] I USED TO IT USED TO BE MY WIFE AND THREE BOYS.
[00:04:11] BUT NOW I GUESS, YOU KNOW, I GUESS IT'S A LITTLE BIGGER.
[00:04:14] BUT THAT LEADS ME TO THINK I
[00:04:16] BETTER START TALKING ABOUT FDR AND NORTH CAROLINA.
[00:04:20] IT'S NOT A BIG SUBJECT IN THE
[00:04:23] BOOK, BUT OF COURSE, IF YOU'RE
[00:04:25] FAMILIAR WITH THE LIFE OF FDR, YOU KNOW THE CONNECTION TO A
[00:04:29] NUMBER OF DIFFERENT STATES, INCLUDING NORTH CAROLINA.
[00:04:33] THERE WERE A NUMBER OF PEOPLE HE
[00:04:37] BROUGHT INTO HIS ADMINISTRATION
[00:04:39] FROM NORTH CAROLINA, PERHAPS WELL KNOWN IN MY PART OF THE
[00:04:43] COUNTRY.
[00:04:45] JOSEPH, AS DANIELS AND DANIELS
[00:04:49] WAS THE NAVY SECRETARY UNDER
[00:04:51] WHOM FDR GOT HIS FIRST POSITION
[00:04:55] AS ASSISTANT NAVAL SECRETARY.
[00:04:57] AND I'LL TALK ABOUT THAT IN A MINUTE. ONE REASON I MENTION THAT IS
[00:05:02] BECAUSE ONE OF THE CHALLENGES I THINK OF TRYING TO DO SOMETHING
[00:05:05] LIKE THIS, A BOOK LIKE THIS, IS
[00:05:09] TO THINK ABOUT IF I'M GOING TO TALK ABOUT THE PEOPLE WHO HAD AN
[00:05:11] IMPACT ON FDR, THE SO-CALLED PEOPLE THAT ACTED AS HIS
[00:05:15] MENTORS. THEN HE SOMETIMES RECOGNIZED AS HIS MENTORS.
[00:05:19] I GOT TO LOOK AT A LOT OF
[00:05:21] DIFFERENT PEOPLE AND MY EDITOR,
[00:05:25] AMONG OTHER PEOPLE, SAID, OH, YOU KNOW WHAT? HOW ABOUT JOSEPHUS DANIELS?
[00:05:28] AND SO, LIKE MANY OF YOU, SIR, I
[00:05:33] LOOKED INTO JOSEPHUS DANIELS, EVEN THOUGH, OF COURSE, HE'S
[00:05:36] FROM MY PART OF THE COUNTRY AND EVEN THOUGH THE RALEIGH NEWS AND
[00:05:39] OBSERVER IS STILL A VERY PERHAPS
[00:05:43] THE MAJOR PAPER IN NORTH
[00:05:45] CAROLINA AND I QUICKLY
[00:05:49] DISCOVERED A FEW THINGS, HE WAS
[00:05:53] COMPLETELY UNFAMILIAR WITH THE NAVY.
[00:05:57] ONE REASON WHY, AS YOU KNOW, FDR
[00:05:59] BECOMES HIS ASSISTANT IS BECAUSE
[00:06:02] FDR SUPPOSEDLY KNOWS SOMETHING ABOUT BOATS. HE LIKED TO SAIL.
[00:06:06] SO THE CRITERIA OF BACK THEN NO
[00:06:10] DIFFERENT THAN TODAY. YEAH.
[00:06:12] NO MORE THINGS CHANGE THE MORE THEY STAY THE SAME. YOU KNOW?
[00:06:16] AND SO.
[00:06:20] THAT WAS ONE ASPECT OF DANIELS. AND OF COURSE, HE WAS A GOOD OLD
[00:06:24] BOY. BUT THE OTHER ASPECT OF DANIELS,
[00:06:27] WHICH I THINK CLINCHED THE
[00:06:31] CONCLUSION THAT HE WOULD NOT BE A MENTOR, IS HE WAS A WHITE
[00:06:35] SUPREMACIST. THAT EXPLAINS, AMONG OTHER THINGS, WHY HIS NAME GETS
[00:06:39] REMOVED FROM OUR BOOKSTORE AND
[00:06:43] AND AS I MENTIONED A MINUTE,
[00:06:45] THEY DIDN'T NECESSARILY GET ALONG THAT WELL.
[00:06:49] SO I'LL TALK ABOUT THAT A LITTLE BIT.
[00:06:52] WELL, WHEN YOU HAVE TO FIGURE OUT. WELL, LET ME FIRST TALK ABOUT
[00:06:56] WHY I GOT INTERESTED IN THIS
[00:07:01] PROJECT.
[00:07:01] THERE'S STUFF, PENDERS BOOKS
[00:07:05] THAT HAVE BEEN WRITTEN ABOUT
[00:07:07] FDR, INCLUDING BY BILL LICHTENBERG.
[00:07:10] I HAD THE GREAT PRIVILEGE OF
[00:07:13] BEING ONE OF HIS COLLEAGUES AT USC.
[00:07:18] AND I FIGURED OUT, OKAY, I'M NOT GOING TO WRITE A BOOK LIKE THAT,
[00:07:23] BUT MY WORK THERE WAS JUST
[00:07:26] SUMMARIZED FOR YOU IN PART WORKING WITH THE SENATE AND
[00:07:30] SUPREME COURT NOMINATIONS AND
[00:07:33] IMPEACHMENTS HAS HAD REALLY SORT
[00:07:36] OF FAMILIARIZED ME WITH A LOT OF PRESIDENTIAL HISTORY.
[00:07:40] SO WHEN YOU START LOOKING AT THE YEAH, PART OF MY JOB WAS TO BE
[00:07:44] THE ENCYCLOPEDIA THAT EVERYBODY WOULD RELY ON FOR INFORMATION
[00:07:46] ABOUT NOMINATIONS AND PRESIDENTS
[00:07:49] AND PRECEDENTS.
[00:07:51] AND SO I FOUND MYSELF WORKING A
[00:07:55] LOT WITH PEOPLE, OF COURSE, HAVE
[00:07:57] BEEN GREAT PRESIDENTS, LET'S SAY, LIKE LINCOLN AND I HAD
[00:08:01] WRITTEN A BOOK CALLED LINCOLN'S MENTORS THE EDUCATION OF A
[00:08:04] LEADER AND ONE OF THE REASONS I
[00:08:08] ENDED UP DOING THAT IS BECAUSE I
[00:08:12] KEPT RUNNING ACROSS ALL THIS RESEARCH INVOLVING PRESIDENTS
[00:08:17] THAT I DIDN'T REALLY THINK MANY PEOPLE KNEW.
[00:08:21] AND THAT GOT ME INTRIGUED, AND I
[00:08:24] GOT PARTICULARLY INTRIGUED WHEN I STARTED THINKING ABOUT BECAUSE
[00:08:27] AFTER ALL, ON THE LEGAL EDUCATOR, AMONG OTHER THINGS, IS, WELL, HOW DO THESE PEOPLE
[00:08:32] BECOME THE PEOPLE THEY BECAME WHO MIGHT HAVE HAD IMPACT ON THEM?
[00:08:36] YOU KNOW, WHERE DO THEIR IDEAS COME FROM?
[00:08:39] CERTAINLY THEY HAD EXPERIENCE AND THEY HAD THEIR OWN POLITICAL GIFTS.
[00:08:44] BUT WERE THERE PEOPLE THAT
[00:08:46] HELPED GUIDE THEIR WAY OR INFORM THEIR WAYS?
[00:08:50] AND NOT EVERYBODY WHO INFLUENCED FDR.
[00:08:53] AND THERE WERE A WHOLE LOT OF
[00:08:56] PEOPLE BEING COUNTED, AT LEAST IN THIS BOOK, AS A MENTOR.
[00:09:00] SO BY THAT TERM AND THAT NOTION, WHAT I MEAN IS SOMEBODY WHO HAD
[00:09:03] AN ENDURING IMPACT ON FDR WAS
[00:09:07] SORT OF VALUES AND HIS APPROACH
[00:09:10] TO GOVERNMENT AND HOW HE EVEN
[00:09:13] HANDLED PEOPLE AND A LOT OF HOW
[00:09:17] HE PERFORMED, A LOT OF THE
[00:09:19] PRESIDENTIAL ACTS AND THAT HE
[00:09:21] ACTUALLY CONDUCTED THROUGHOUT
[00:09:24] HIS MANY YEARS AS PRESIDENT. AND ONE WAY I TRIED TO FIGURE
[00:09:27] THAT OUT WAS, OKAY, LET'S THINK
[00:09:29] ABOUT HIS LIFE AND SEE IF THERE WERE RECURRING CHARACTERS.
[00:09:33] BY THE WAY, THIS IS A GAME YOU'RE GOING TO PLAY AT HOME.
[00:09:37] SO EVERYBODY, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT
[00:09:40] REALLY A STRICTLY OBJECTIVE TEST.
[00:09:44] SO YOU CAN THINK ABOUT, OKAY, IF
[00:09:47] I MISS SOMETHING, THAT'S OKAY.
[00:09:50] MAYBE YOU'VE GOT SOMEBODY ELSE YOU THINK HAD MORE IMPACT.
[00:09:53] MAYBE YOU THINK NOBODY HAD MUCH
[00:09:55] IMPACT, WHICH, BY THE WAY, IS NOT A BAD THEORY, BUT I DON'T
[00:09:59] THINK IS NECESSARILY THE CORRECT ONE.
[00:10:03] SO HERE ARE THE RECURRING CHARACTERS.
[00:10:06] I THOUGHT AND TRACKED AS HAVING
[00:10:10] AN IMPACT THROUGHOUT MUCH OF FDR
[00:10:16] LIFE, NOT JUST AT THE BEGINNING OF HIS FATHER AND MOTHER, AS YOU
[00:10:19] PROBABLY WELL KNOW, CERTAINLY HAD AN IMPACT ON HIM.
[00:10:22] UNFORTUNATE HIS FATHER DIED WHEN
[00:10:24] HE WAS YOUNG AND I THINK DID
[00:10:27] INSTILL WITHIN FDR A VERY
[00:10:31] IMPORTANT ATTRIBUTE, AND THAT
[00:10:33] WAS THIS IDEA OF NEW BLESSED LEADERSHIP.
[00:10:36] THIS IDEA THAT HE WAS COMING
[00:10:38] FROM A CLASS THAT HAD AN
[00:10:42] OBLIGATION TO HELP OTHER PEOPLE.
[00:10:46] WE DON'T REALLY CALL IT THAT ANYMORE.
[00:10:48] BUT IT WAS VERY PROMINENT
[00:10:50] THROUGHOUT FDR, HIS LIFE.
[00:10:52] AND THAT'S CERTAINLY SPARKED
[00:10:56] LET'S SAY IT KIND OF PLANTED A
[00:10:58] SEED THAT THEN REALLY GREW ONCE
[00:11:02] ROOSEVELT'S PARENTS KICKED HIM OUT.
[00:11:08] SO THAT WHEN HE WAS IN HIGH
[00:11:10] SCHOOL OR BARELY IN HIGH SCHOOL,
[00:11:12] HIS UNCLE, BY THE WAY, OR I
[00:11:15] SHOULD SAY DISTANT COUSIN WHO HAD A GREAT DEAL OF IMPACT ON
[00:11:18] HIM AND IS A MENTOR.
[00:11:20] TEDDY ROOSEVELT SUGGESTS STATED
[00:11:25] TO FRANKLIN'S FATHER THAT MAYBE
[00:11:29] THE BEST THING TO DO WITH
[00:11:31] FRANKLIN WAS TO SEND HIM TO A
[00:11:35] REALLY FANCY PREP SCHOOL THAT HAD JUST BEGUN.
[00:11:39] JUST BEEN FOUNDED AND SOME OF
[00:11:43] YOU MAY HAVE VISITED THE GROTON SCHOOL.
[00:11:46] AND WHAT WAS ESPECIALLY DISTINCTIVE ABOUT IT AT THAT
[00:11:49] TIME WAS ITS HEADMASTER, WHOSE
[00:11:53] PICTURE EVEN APPEARED ON THE FRONT OF THE TIME MAGAZINE.
[00:11:57] NOT TOO NOT TOO MANY HEADMASTERS
[00:11:59] GET THAT KIND OF DISTINCT. AND THIS WAS A MAN NAMED
[00:12:04] ENDICOTT PEABODY.
[00:12:06] AND I WILL SUGGEST AT THE OUTSET, I THINK HE WAS AN
[00:12:09] ENORMOUS INFLUENCE ON FRANKLIN'S LIFE.
[00:12:12] HE CERTAINLY CARRIED ON.
[00:12:15] HE LIVED THIS ENTIRE IDEA OF NOBLESSE OBLIGE.
[00:12:19] BUT HE ALSO HAD THIS VISION OF
[00:12:21] WHAT WAS THEN CALLED SORT OF
[00:12:25] MAN, THE CHRISTIANITY, SORT OF A MUSCULAR CHRISTIANITY, WHICH IS
[00:12:29] WE'RE GOING TO PLAY GAMES LIKE, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, FOOTBALL AND
[00:12:31] OTHER THINGS LIKE THAT. YOU'RE GOING TO LEARN TO BE SORT
[00:12:35] OF TOUGH. AND BUT WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO
[00:12:38] IS THEN USE THAT TOUGHNESS TO
[00:12:41] ADVANCE IDEAS AND SERVICES THAT
[00:12:44] WILL HELP OTHER PEOPLE AND FDR
[00:12:50] WASN'T KNOWN AS FDR BACK THEN.
[00:12:53] FDR FOUND HIMSELF DRAWN TO
[00:12:56] PEABODY, WHO WAS HIMSELF A VERY
[00:12:58] MAGNETIC CHARACTER. IF JUST AS PART OF HIS
[00:13:02] BACKGROUND, HE SPENT SOME TIME
[00:13:04] IN TUCSON, WAS AT THE OKAY CORRAL DURING THE FAMOUS
[00:13:07] GUNFIGHT THAT YOU MAY HAVE HEARD ABOUT IN OTHER CONTEXTS. SO WHEN HE SHOWS UP IN
[00:13:12] MASSACHUSETTS, AS YOU KNOW, THIS, I THINK OXFORD EDUCATED
[00:13:16] FELLOW KNEW A LITTLE BIT ABOUT AMERICA AND ITS MANNERS, WHICH
[00:13:20] DIDN'T. TERRIBLY IMPRESSIVE.
[00:13:23] BUT WHAT PEABODY DID, HE WAS A
[00:13:25] VERY TOUGH TASKMASTER THERE ALL
[00:13:27] SORTS OF PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT HOW AFRAID THEY WERE.
[00:13:30] EVEN FDR SAID, YOU KNOW, EVEN WHEN HE WAS PRESIDENT, FDR SAID, I'M AFRAID OF IT.
[00:13:35] YES, HE WROTE THAT IN THE LETTERS. AND BY THE WAY, THE LETTERS
[00:13:37] BETWEEN THEM, THEY THEY EXTEND ALL THE WAY FROM THE TIME FDR
[00:13:42] GRADUATED FROM GROTON TO WRITE
[00:13:45] BEFORE PEABODY'S DEATH IN 1944.
[00:13:50] AND THEY WROTE DOZENS AND DOZENS
[00:13:53] OF LETTERS. AND PEABODY WAS NEVER SHY ABOUT
[00:13:57] TRYING TO GIVE ADVICE TO FDR. BY THE WAY, HE WAS HE OVERSAW
[00:14:01] HIS FIRST INAUGURAL AND HIS LAST.
[00:14:04] AND AND SO ONE OF THE THINGS
[00:14:09] THAT REALLY STRUCK ME ABOUT THE LETTERS IS THAT AS YOU CAN READ
[00:14:13] THEM OVER THE COURSE OF TIME,
[00:14:18] FRANKLIN ALWAYS CALLS HIM DR.
[00:14:22] PEABODY, EVEN WHEN HE'S PRESIDENT UNITED STATES.
[00:14:24] HE CALLED HIM DR. PEABODY.
[00:14:28] AND AND THAT WAS EVEN IN HIS PRESENCE. YOU KNOW, AS I MENTIONED, HE
[00:14:32] SAYS I'M STILL SCARE ME A BIT.
[00:14:36] AND, YOU KNOW, BY THE WAY, WE FOUND SOMEBODY WHO SCARED FDR. THAT WAS THAT IN ITSELF WAS A
[00:14:40] FEAT. BUT ONE OF THE THINGS IN THE
[00:14:45] PEABODY WRITES AND DEAR MR.
[00:14:47] PRESIDENT ALSO, HE ACTUALLY, I MISSPOKE.
[00:14:52] HE ACTUALLY CALLS HIM FRANKLIN EVEN AS PRESIDENT. HE CALLS HIM FRANKLIN.
[00:14:56] SO THE RELATIONSHIP ALWAYS, I
[00:14:58] THINK, WAS BETWEEN MENTOR AND MENTEE.
[00:15:01] THAT IS CERTAINLY HOW EACH OF THEM SAW IT.
[00:15:04] AND I THINK YOU CAN SEE IN THE
[00:15:06] BIBLICAL REFERENCES THAT EMERGE
[00:15:09] AND FDR SPEECHES AND HIS KNOWLEDGE ABOUT RELIGION, A LOT
[00:15:13] OF THAT IS TRACED BACK TO THE TIME HE SPENT AT GROTON GOING TO
[00:15:17] CHURCH SERVICES WITH AND SCOTT
[00:15:21] PEABODY. SO THAT'S THAT'S ONE OF MY FIRST CANDIDATES.
[00:15:24] AND BY THE WAY, PEABODY ALSO WAS
[00:15:27] NOT SO SHY THAT HE WOULDN'T TELL FRANKLIN.
[00:15:31] MAYBE YOU SHOULD DO THIS AND NOT THAT HE WAS ALWAYS TRYING TO
[00:15:33] SORT OF GIVE HIM ADVICE AND WAS
[00:15:37] ALMOST ALWAYS ADVICE ABOUT SORT OF DOING SOMETHING NOBLE,
[00:15:40] SOMETHING VIRTUOUS, SOMETHING THAT WAS GOOD.
[00:15:46] AND FDR DIDN'T LISTEN TO A LOT
[00:15:48] OF PEOPLE, BUT HE DID LISTEN, I THINK TO PEABODY DOESN'T MEAN
[00:15:52] YOU ALWAYS DID. BUT PEABODY SAID, BUT HE AT LEAST HE LISTENED.
[00:15:56] HE TOOK IT INTO ACCOUNT.
[00:15:57] SO THAT'S THAT'S ONE OF THE FIRST ONES I TALK ABOUT AND I
[00:16:01] TALK ABOUT HIM THROUGHOUT THE BOOK VERY INTERESTING CHARACTER.
[00:16:06] AND AND REALLY HAD A ENORMOUS
[00:16:10] INFLUENCE, NOT JUST OVER FDR, BUT OVER EDUCATION.
[00:16:13] AND I WENT WHEN I VISITED
[00:16:17] GROTON, YOU KNOW, I SAW THE THE BOARD, THEY PUT THE CLASSES UP ON A BOARD.
[00:16:21] AND YOU SEE THE CLASS THAT ROOSEVELT WAS IN AND HIS PHOTOS
[00:16:24] NOT NOT PROMINENTLY DISPLAYED,
[00:16:28] BUT IN FACT, I THINK THE MOST PROMINENT.
[00:16:32] PAINTING OR PHOTO IS ENDICOTT
[00:16:36] PEABODY. AND SO AND THAT'S FINE.
[00:16:39] YOU KNOW, HE FOUND THIS GREAT
[00:16:41] INSTITUTION AND HE'S ENTITLED TO THAT.
[00:16:45] BUT YOU CAN FIND THROUGHOUT
[00:16:48] ROOSEVELT'S LIVES TIME AND TIME AGAIN WHEN HE'S SORT OF DRAWING
[00:16:52] IN THAT EARLY EXPERIENCE DURING
[00:16:56] WHICH HE WAS ADMITTEDLY FAIRLY
[00:16:58] OFTEN QUITE SICK, HE WAS NOT THE
[00:17:02] ROBUST GUY THAT TR WAS.
[00:17:05] HE WANTED TO BE.
[00:17:07] BUT AS YOU WELL KNOW, HE'S GOING
[00:17:10] TO HAVE A CRUCIBLE TO CROSS DEAL WITH.
[00:17:13] THAT'S GOING TO MAKE THAT REALLY DIFFICULT.
[00:17:15] IF FRANKLY IMPOSSIBLE FOR THE
[00:17:20] AND I SAW ON 5 OR 6 PEOPLE.
[00:17:23] BUT AGAIN, THIS IS NOT SCIENTIFIC.
[00:17:25] IT'S REALLY JUST ONE EDUCATOR TRYING TO THINK ABOUT, OKAY, TO
[00:17:29] WHAT EXTENT DOES EDUCATOR, TO
[00:17:32] WHAT EXTENT IS INFLUENCE, TO WHAT EXTENT DOES A MENTOR MAKE
[00:17:35] IN SOME OF THESE LEADERSHIP UP?
[00:17:39] AND SO THAT'S AGAIN WHEN I WAS SORT OF AFTER AND WHAT I WAS
[00:17:42] LOOKING FOR.
[00:17:45] SO A SECOND PERSON WAS OF
[00:17:49] COURSE, TEDDY ROOSEVELT AND THIS
[00:17:53] HAPPENS EARLY AND IT IS A
[00:17:57] PROFOUND INFLUENCE OVER FDR BY
[00:18:01] THE WAY, THE FIRST PRESIDENT FDR
[00:18:03] EVER MET WAS GROVER CLEVELAND,
[00:18:07] AND HE WAS A TINY CHILD.
[00:18:11] AND CLEVELAND SAID, WELL, YOU
[00:18:13] KNOW, I PROBABLY SAID THIS TO EVERY TIME CHILD AND SAYS, WELL,
[00:18:17] MAYBE SOMEDAY BECOME PRESIDENT OF UNITED STATES.
[00:18:22] YOU. AND ONE THING ABOUT FDR, IF YOU
[00:18:24] CHALLENGE HIM, HE'S PROBABLY NOT GOING TO, YOU KNOW, JUST TAKE
[00:18:28] THAT LYING DOWN.
[00:18:31] SO BUT IF YOU WANT TO KNOW ABOUT TR HIS INFLUENCE AND I SUSPECT
[00:18:34] ALL OF YOU DO, ONE OF THE PLACES
[00:18:37] YOU CAN LOOK IS HOW FDR DRESSED
[00:18:39] EVEN FROM HIS HE WAS A YOUNG MAN
[00:18:44] HE I HAVE A PHOTO IN THE BOOK WHERE THEY'RE WALKING TOGETHER
[00:18:48] AND YOU CAN SEE THAT FRANKLIN'S GOT PINS AND HANDS AND HE'S GOT
[00:18:50] THE SAME OUTFIT, BUT HE DIDN'T NEED GLASSES. BUT HE'S GOT THE WHOLE LOOK DOWN
[00:18:54] AND HE'S TRYING TO DRESS AND ACT LIKE TR HUH.
[00:19:00] AND TR BECOMES, I THINK, LARGELY
[00:19:02] A POSITIVE MODEL FOR FRANKLIN.
[00:19:06] WE KNOW THAT TEDDY HAS A ROLE IN
[00:19:10] THE IN THE MARRIAGE TO ELEANOR.
[00:19:12] WE KNOW THAT TEDDY MAKES
[00:19:15] APPEARANCES AT DIFFERENT TIMES THROUGHOUT FDR.
[00:19:18] HIS LIFE.
[00:19:19] HE'S CERTAINLY A LARGER THAN LIFE FIGURE HIMSELF.
[00:19:23] YOU PROBABLY KNOW ONE OF THE MOST FAMOUS QUOTES ABOUT TR,
[00:19:26] WHICH PROBABLY IS APT. YOU KNOW, EVERY WEDDING, HE
[00:19:30] WANTED TO BE THE BRIDE AT EVERY FUNERAL.
[00:19:32] HE WANTED TO BE THE CORPSE.
[00:19:36] AND I THINK THAT TO SOME EXTENT
[00:19:38] THAT'S HOW FDR SAW HIM. HE I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS I
[00:19:43] GATHER FROM STUDYING FDR IS HE
[00:19:47] DIDN'T GROW UP INTIMIDATED BY PEOPLE WHO WHO WERE POWERFUL OR
[00:19:52] WEALTHY, THAT BY ITSELF IS
[00:19:55] RATHER SORT OF REMARKABLE.
[00:19:59] HE WOULDN'T BE SHY ABOUT AND HE
[00:20:03] WASN'T SHY, FOR EXAMPLE, WITH RESPECT TO THE THIRD MENTOR THAT
[00:20:05] HE TRIED TO SEEK OUT OFTEN WHEN
[00:20:09] HE WAS CONSIDERING RUNNING FOR THE PRESIDENT AND EVENTUALLY BECAME THE DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE,
[00:20:13] AND THAT IS WOODROW WILSON.
[00:20:15] I IN MY VIEW, IT'S GOING TO IT'S
[00:20:17] IN DISPUTE. WILL WILSON WOULD BE A MENTOR IN
[00:20:21] DIFFERENT WAYS THAN WE MIGHT
[00:20:25] EXPECT BY SAYING SOMEBODY IS A MENTOR. YOU KNOW, YOU'RE NOT SAYING, OH,
[00:20:28] THIS IS THEY'RE GOING TO BE MODELS FOR EVERYTHING GOOD THIS PERSON DOES.
[00:20:32] YOU CAN HAVE A MENTOR WHO'S QUITE BAD.
[00:20:34] YOU COULD HAVE A MENTOR WHO IS
[00:20:38] ESTABLISHING A BAD MODEL.
[00:20:41] AND FRANKLIN HATED WILSON'S
[00:20:45] RECTITUDE, DIDN'T HAVE MUCH RESPECT FOR IT, BUT HE WAS AN
[00:20:50] OPPORTUNIST.
[00:20:50] AND SO HE'S GOTTEN HIS START IN
[00:20:54] STATE POLITICS. BUT WHAT DOES HE WANT TO DO WITH HIS LIFE?
[00:20:58] WELL, AGAIN, AS ALL OF YOU KNOW, IF YOU TRACK THE PROGRESS OF
[00:21:02] FRANKLIN MAKES, IT'S ALMOST WALKING IN THE SAME FOOTSTEPS AS
[00:21:06] TR.
[00:21:08] ARE HARVARD AN ATTEMPT AT GOING
[00:21:12] TO LAW SCHOOL TO COLUMBIA? AND HE FDR DROPS OUT JUST LIKE
[00:21:16] TR.
[00:21:18] HE WAS ONE OF THE FIRST JOBS HE WANTS TO GET. STATE LEGISLATURE.
[00:21:22] WHAT'S THE NEXT JOBS? HE WANTS TO GET? THE ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF NAVY.
[00:21:26] NOW, WHY WOULD THAT BE?
[00:21:27] BECAUSE THAT WAS TR AND I THINK
[00:21:30] IT'S JUST A THEORY. I DON'T KNOW THAT IT'S GOING TO
[00:21:33] BE PROVEN, BUT I SUSPECT OR
[00:21:36] AGAIN, A THEORY THAT ONE OF THE
[00:21:38] WAYS THAT FDR LOOKED AT TR WAS NOT SORT OF IN ORDER, BUT IT WAS
[00:21:43] MUCH MORE LIKE IF YOU CAN DO
[00:21:46] THAT, I THINK I CAN DO THAT AND PROBABLY BETTER.
[00:21:50] AND FRANCES PERKINS MAKES AN
[00:21:54] APPEARANCE EARLY AND OFTEN THROUGHOUT HIS LIFE.
[00:21:57] AND WHEN SHE FIRST ENCOUNTERS FDR IN HIS EARLY DAYS IN THE
[00:22:01] STATE LEGISLATURE, SHE THINKS
[00:22:03] HE'S AN ARROGANT S.O.B. SHE HAS
[00:22:08] NO RESPECT FOR HIM, THINKS HE'S KIND OF EMPTY HEADED, YOU KNOW,
[00:22:11] FANCY, EDUCATED GUY WHO DOESN'T
[00:22:13] REALLY KNOW MUCH ABOUT THE WORLD. AND SHE'S NOT.
[00:22:17] SHE'S NOT IMPRESSED AT ALL. INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH, SHE, TOO,
[00:22:21] HAS AN EYE FOR.
[00:22:25] YOU KNOW, PATHWAYS TO INFLUENCE AND POWER.
[00:22:29] AND IT TURNS OUT THIS GUY, FDR,
[00:22:32] IS GOING TO TURN OUT TO HAVE A PRETTY GOOD PATHWAY.
[00:22:36] AND FRAN SAYS, IS THERE, AS I
[00:22:40] SAID, EARLY AND OFTEN, SHE'S ONE OF THE FEW PEOPLE THAT TENDS TO
[00:22:44] FDR WHEN HE HAS POLIO. AND WHEN HE'S PRESIDENT.
[00:22:50] HE IS HE RELIES ON HER HEAVILY
[00:22:54] FOR ECONOMIC INFLUENCE AND PARTICULARLY FOR LABOR STATISTICS.
[00:22:58] AND IN UNDERSTANDING LABOR LAW.
[00:23:00] THE ECONOMIC ADVISORS, FDR HAD,
[00:23:02] BY AND LARGE THOUGHT HE DIDN'T KNOW ANYTHING.
[00:23:06] IN THE WORLD OF ECONOMICS.
[00:23:10] WHICH IS A PROBLEM IF YOU'RE THE PRESIDENT OF UNITED STATES DURING A GREAT DEPRESSION.
[00:23:16] SO HE GETS HE HAS TO RELY ON OTHERS.
[00:23:20] AND I THINK FRANCES PERKINS IS ONE OF THOSE SHE GROWS TO
[00:23:23] RESPECT HIM, PARTICULARLY.
[00:23:25] AND SHE WRITES ABOUT THIS DURING
[00:23:29] THROUGH HIS BATTLE WITH POLIO. SHE SAYS, AND I'M JUST
[00:23:34] PARAPHRASING, THAT IT CHANGED
[00:23:36] HIM BEFORE THE BATTLE, FDR WAS A
[00:23:41] RELATIVELY FRIVOLOUS BUT
[00:23:44] TALENTED UP AND COMER.
[00:23:48] HE HADN'T HE WAS NOT FULLY
[00:23:52] FORMED IN A SENSE.
[00:23:54] AND HE HAD THIS KIND OF ELITE
[00:23:56] ISM, THIS PENCHANT FOR LEADERS THAT I THINK WAS NOT TERRIBLY
[00:24:02] APPEALING. SO IF YOU WERE WRITING A PIECE
[00:24:04] OF FICTION, YOU WOULD THINK THIS
[00:24:06] PERSON NEEDS TO BE BROUGHT DOWN.
[00:24:10] WELL, WE ALL KNOW IN REALITY WHAT HAPPENS.
[00:24:12] HE CONTRACTS POLIO AND IT'S, I
[00:24:17] THINK, A SEVEN YEAR BATTLE THAT
[00:24:19] HE WAGES AGAINST POLIO AND HE
[00:24:26] LARGELY IS TENDED TO BY ELEANOR
[00:24:30] AND BY FRANCIS.
[00:24:32] AND THERE WILL BE ANOTHER PERSON.
[00:24:35] HOWEVER, WHO WILL ALSO APPEAR
[00:24:39] AND THIS IS LARGELY THE ONLY
[00:24:42] PLACE IN WHICH THIS PARTICULAR
[00:24:44] INDIVIDUAL HAS ENORMOUS
[00:24:47] INFLUENCE, PROBABLY NOT KNOWN OUTSIDE OF ROOSEVELT.
[00:24:51] YOU KNOW, FIGURES WELL, WHEN
[00:24:55] WHEN FDR IS JOINING THE
[00:24:58] LEGISLATURE AND STARTING TO CAMPAIGN, HE CATCHES AND I HAVE
[00:25:03] REPORTER AND THIS REPORTER
[00:25:06] THINKS, WELL, THIS THIS GUY MAY HAVE A FUTURE AND MAYBE THIS GUY
[00:25:10] COULD EVEN BE PRESIDENT OF UNITED STATES. SO THIS REPORTER NAMED LOUIS
[00:25:16] HOWE BECOMES ALMOST ATTACHED TO
[00:25:22] FDR AND I THINK IT IS FAIR TO
[00:25:25] SAY HE BECOMES A MENTOR BECAUSE
[00:25:27] ONE AT THE BEGINNING, HE HELPS
[00:25:29] TEACH FDR ABOUT POLITICS. YOU KNOW, THIS IS HOW YOU HAVE
[00:25:32] TO IT HAS TO BE RETAIL. YOU HAVE TO GO TO PEOPLE. THINK ABOUT DRIVING THE CAR.
[00:25:36] FDR LOVED THAT YOU'D GO, YOU KNOW, DRIVE THE CAR EVERYWHERE,
[00:25:40] STOP ME, PEOPLE. THAT WAS IMPORTANT. NEWSPAPERS.
[00:25:43] WELL, HOW WAS A REPORTER? YOU HAVE TO GET YOUR NAME IN THE
[00:25:46] PAPERS, PREFERABLY POSITIVELY. LET'S FIGURE OUT WAYS TO DO
[00:25:50] THAT. AND SO HOW WAS A CONSTANT
[00:25:54] ADVISOR? REALLY ALMOST A THORN IN THE
[00:25:57] SIDE OF FDR.
[00:26:00] BUT YOU SEE HIM EXERT, I THINK,
[00:26:06] ENORMOUS INFLUENCE BECAUSE HE HAD POLITICAL JUDGMENT THAT FDR
[00:26:12] RESPECTED.
[00:26:12] AND HOW HAD THE ATTRIBUTE OF NOT
[00:26:18] BEING INTIMIDATED BY FDR IN THE LEAST.
[00:26:21] AND SO, YOU KNOW, ONE STORY IS
[00:26:24] THAT HAL TELLS IT HOW AN FDR
[00:26:30] HAVING A FIGHT IN THE WHITE
[00:26:32] HOUSE AND AND FDR SAYS, WELL,
[00:26:36] I'M JUST GOING TO GO SWIMMING.
[00:26:39] AND HOW YELLS DOWN THE HALLWAY OF THE WHITE HOUSE.
[00:26:43] I HOPE YOU DROWN.
[00:26:47] GOOD. THAT'S VERY STRONG PERSONALITY.
[00:26:50] NOW, HOW UNFORTUNATELY JUST
[00:26:52] NEVER GAVE HIMSELF A BREAK IN
[00:26:54] THINKING HE WAS AN UGLY PERSON. HE THOUGHT THE WORLD SORT OF
[00:26:58] LOOKED DOWN ON HIM BECAUSE HE WAS NOT TERRIBLY ATTRACTIVE. HE CERTAINLY WASN'T WEALTHY.
[00:27:02] BUT ROSEVILLE HAD HIM AS HIS CHIEF OF STAFF.
[00:27:05] HE WAS THE HEAD OF THE CAMP. HE HEADED CAMPAIGNS.
[00:27:09] HE WAS ALL THE WAY THERE BEHIND ROOSEVELT UP UNTIL NEAR THE END
[00:27:14] OF THE SECOND TERM.
[00:27:15] AND HOW DOES AND FDR, HIS SON
[00:27:23] SAYS THAT THIS IS ONE OF THE
[00:27:25] THAT THIS GUY HOW HAD BEEN ONE OF THE STRONGEST, BEST
[00:27:30] INFLUENCES EVEN ELEANOR AGREED
[00:27:33] ON HIS FATHER, FDR.
[00:27:35] SO THE WAY IN WHICH HOWE GOES ABOUT THAT IS ALSO SORT OF
[00:27:39] INTERESTING. AND THEY HAVE A VERY I DON'T KNOW, I'D SAY IT'S A COMPLICATED
[00:27:44] RELATIONS, BUT IT'S A SOMEWHAT UNIQUE RELATIONSHIP.
[00:27:48] BUT THAT'S NOT ALL. SO I HAVE MENTIONED MORE THAN
[00:27:50] ONCE ANOTHER NAME THAT OFTEN APPEARS IN ASSOCIATION WITH
[00:27:54] FRANKLIN, AND THAT IS ELEANOR. I.
[00:27:58] I DARE TO SAY I MEAN, LET ME GO BACK A STEP.
[00:28:02] ELEANOR HAS ENORMOUS ATTRIBUTES.
[00:28:06] I MEAN, SHE'S SHE'S VERY MUCH A
[00:28:09] YOU KNOW, A POWERFUL PERSON
[00:28:12] HERSELF IN TERMS OF HER THINKING, IN TERMS OF HER
[00:28:16] OUTLOOK AND SHE IS IN LOVE WITH
[00:28:21] FRANKLIN.
[00:28:23] SHE MARRIES HIM.
[00:28:27] SHE NOT EVENTUALLY LOSES SOME
[00:28:30] RESPECT FOR HIM BECAUSE SHE
[00:28:32] DISCOVERS HIS LETTERS AND AND
[00:28:36] ALMOST REALLY HAS A THEN IT
[00:28:40] BECOMES LIKE A LOVE HATE RELATIONSHIP TO SOME EXTENT.
[00:28:44] AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT ALSO SORT OF STANDS OUT IS DURING THE
[00:28:47] WORLD WAR ONE, FRANKLIN HAS LET
[00:28:52] PEOPLE KNOW HE MIGHT BE ON THE PATH OF DIVORCE.
[00:28:55] AND DANIELS AND WILSON, AMONG
[00:28:59] OTHERS, ARE PLEADING WITH HIM NOT TO GET DIVORCED BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE THE END OF HIS
[00:29:03] POLITICAL CAREER. SO HE DOESN'T.
[00:29:06] BUT ELEANOR DOES STICK WITH HIM
[00:29:10] AND SHE DOESN'T LIKE THE POLITICS AT ALL.
[00:29:12] BUT WHO ACTUALLY CHANGED HER ATTITUDE ABOUT THAT?
[00:29:16] HE WAS NOT FDR.
[00:29:19] IT WAS LOUIS HOWE BECAUSE HE SAW
[00:29:22] THIS ENORMOUSLY TALENTED PERSON
[00:29:23] ON THE SIDELINE WHO WAS NOT
[00:29:27] USING ALL OF HER POTENTIAL AND
[00:29:29] WHO COULD MAKE A BIG DIFFERENCE.
[00:29:31] AND SO IT'S HOWE WHO BASICALLY
[00:29:33] KIND OF ENTICES HER COAXES HER
[00:29:35] INTO DOING POLITICAL ACTIVITY,
[00:29:39] YOU KNOW, CAMPAIGNING, DOING OTHER THINGS, BECOMING THE THE
[00:29:41] LEGS AND EARS TO SOME EXTENT OF
[00:29:44] A FRANKLIN AND SHE CAN GO PLACES.
[00:29:46] HE JUST COULDN'T GO.
[00:29:48] AND SO IN THAT REGARD SHE
[00:29:52] BECOMES A VALUABLE PARTNER.
[00:29:54] BUT SHE ALSO BECOMES, I THINK,
[00:29:58] VALUABLE IN THE SENSE THAT SHE'S
[00:30:00] NOT AFRAID TO TELL FRANKLIN WHAT HE SHOULD BE DOING.
[00:30:04] AND I THINK THAT ARISES MOST
[00:30:06] FAMOUSLY IN THE AREA OF CIVIL RIGHTS.
[00:30:11] SHE IS A RELENTLESS PROPONENT OF CIVIL RIGHTS.
[00:30:16] FDR IS NOT. IF YOU LOOK AT FDR, HIS EARLY
[00:30:20] LIFE, AND I THINK ALL OF YOU PROBABLY DONE THIS AND EVEN TO
[00:30:23] LATER PARTS OF HIS LIFE, HE WAS NOT THE MOST AGREEABLE GUY IN
[00:30:27] THE WORLD.
[00:30:29] AND FRANKLY, HE WAS RACIST AND
[00:30:31] HE WAS ANTI-SEMITIC.
[00:30:35] IT NOW HE EVENTUALLY BECOMES
[00:30:37] SUCH A SOPHISTICATED POLITICIAN
[00:30:39] THAT THOSE GET MASSAGED OVER.
[00:30:41] AND HE IF YOU WANT TO THINK OF IT THIS WAY, HE GROWS A LITTLE
[00:30:45] BIT. BUT I WOULDN'T SAY HE GROWS A LOT BECAUSE WHENEVER ELEANOR IS
[00:30:49] SAYING THIS IS YOUR MOMENT, THIS IS A CHANCE TO DO SOMETHING FOR CIVIL RIGHTS.
[00:30:52] FDR BACKS OFF AND HE BACKS OFF BECAUSE HE THINKS IT'S GOING TO
[00:30:57] BE THE END OF HIS POLITICAL CAREER. SO WHEN IT COMES TO A CONTEST
[00:31:01] BETWEEN FDR, HIS FUTURE, AND A PRINCIPLE, WHAT DO YOU THINK FDR
[00:31:06] DOES FDR, HIS FUTURE?
[00:31:08] THAT'S GOING TO BE THE IMPORTANT THING.
[00:31:13] 1 OR 2 OTHER CHARACTERS THAT I WANT TO JUST TALK 1 OR 2 THEMES,
[00:31:15] AND I'M HAPPY TO OPEN UP TO QUESTIONS.
[00:31:19] THERE ARE OTHERS THAT SORT OF
[00:31:20] HAVE IMPACT ON FRANKLIN.
[00:31:24] I THINK ONE CHARACTER REALLY
[00:31:27] WANTED TO BE A MENTOR, BUT BUT I
[00:31:31] THINK FDR DIDN'T WANT THAT TO HAPPEN. AND THAT WAS CHURCHILL.
[00:31:35] CHURCHILL WANTED TO HAVE LIKE A FATHER SON, MENTOR MENTEE
[00:31:39] RELATIONSHIP WITH FDR, FDR HAD
[00:31:41] NO REAL INTEREST IN THAT. SO HE PUSHES BACK.
[00:31:46] BUT. CHURCHILL, AS YOU ALL KNOW, AND
[00:31:49] I, WE JUST GOT MY WIFE AND I JUST GOT BACK FROM LONDON WHERE
[00:31:52] WE TOURED THE WAR ROOMS. AND, YOU KNOW, CHURCHES WERE WAR
[00:31:56] ROOMS DURING THE SECOND WORLD WAR.
[00:31:58] AND SO WE KNOW THAT CHURCHILL
[00:32:01] WAS VERY INFLUENTIAL IN GETTING
[00:32:05] FDR TO AT LEAST PROVIDE SOME SUPPORT FOR ENGLAND BEFORE CONGRESS.
[00:32:09] DID.
[00:32:10] AND THAT WAS THAT WAS PIVOTAL TO
[00:32:14] THE SURVIVAL OF GREAT BRITAIN.
[00:32:18] BUT FDR, WITH LISTEN TO ADVICE
[00:32:22] SOMETIMES HE MIGHT EVEN TAKE IT SOMETIMES, BUT SOMETIMES HE WOULDN'T.
[00:32:25] SO FDR WAS CONVINCED THAT ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT THINGS HE
[00:32:30] COULD DO AS PRESIDENT UNITED STATES THROUGH THE SECOND WORLD
[00:32:32] WAR IS BUDDY UP TO JOSEPH STALIN.
[00:32:35] NOT NECESSARILY.
[00:32:38] NOT, I WOULD SAY NOT A TERRIBLY
[00:32:40] WISE MOVE, BUT ESPECIALLY AFTER
[00:32:45] ROSE ROOSEVELT GETS INVITED TO
[00:32:46] COME TO RUSSIA AND STALIN SAYS
[00:32:50] TO HIM, OH, PLEASE STAY IN THE EMBASSY.
[00:32:54] AND FDR SAYS HIS STAFF WAS A GREAT IDEA.
[00:32:58] LET'S LISTEN. LET'S STAY IN THE EMBASSY. CHURCHILL THINKS HE'S CRAZY.
[00:33:02] THE STAFF THINKS HE'S A BIT CRAZY.
[00:33:04] AND THESE NEGOTIATIONS UNFOLD,
[00:33:07] ALL IN WHICH STALIN KNOWS EVERY MOVE FDR IS MAKING BEFORE HE
[00:33:11] MAKES IT. WHY DO YOU THINK THAT HAPPENED?
[00:33:15] BECAUSE HE WAS BUGGED AND IT
[00:33:17] TOOK HIM A VERY SHORT A COUPLE OF DAYS TO REALIZE THAT AND
[00:33:21] EVENTUALLY MOVED OUT.
[00:33:23] BUT IT WAS BUT AGAIN, NOT
[00:33:27] NECESSARILY HEARING WHAT HE
[00:33:29] SHOULD HAVE HEARD BECAUSE YOU'RE SO FOCUSED ON TRYING TO BE A
[00:33:33] BUDDY TO TO STALIN, WHICH, BY
[00:33:35] THE WAY, DROVE CHURCHILL CRAZY,
[00:33:37] AMONG OTHER THINGS, THAT
[00:33:41] ROOSEVELT WAS NOT ALWAYS, LET'S
[00:33:43] SAY, HIS BEST SELF, NOT ALWAYS ON TARGET.
[00:33:47] I JUST WANT TO MENTION 1 OR 2
[00:33:51] OTHER THINGS, SORT OF THEMES
[00:33:53] THAT I WOULD SAY OR THAT WAS THE FIRST HAS TO DO WITH SORT OF A
[00:33:57] SENSE OF HISTORY.
[00:34:00] I DON'T PRETEND TO BE WRITING
[00:34:04] ANY KIND OF GRAND HISTORY HERE,
[00:34:08] AND BUT I DO HAVE AN INTEREST IN
[00:34:12] HISTORY AND IT SORT OF MANIFESTS
[00:34:14] ITSELF BY MY LOOKING AT PATTERNS
[00:34:22] IN HISTORY, SORT OF CONNECTING
[00:34:24] THE EVENTS OR SEEING WHAT THINGS MIGHT BE RELATED OR NOT.
[00:34:30] AND I CERTAINLY TRIED TO DO THAT
[00:34:30] WITH ROOSEVELT AND THERE ARE 1
[00:34:35] OR 2 THINGS SORT OF DEVELOP. I CAN'T SAY I HAVE THE GREATEST ANSWER TO.
[00:34:39] I THINK THERE'S IN PART BECAUSE
[00:34:42] FDR WAS FAMOUS FOR HAVING A
[00:34:49] MASK. HE WAS FAMOUS FOR NOT BEING
[00:34:52] READABLE AND IT DROVE HIS STAFF
[00:34:56] CRAZY. NOW, ONE OF THE WAYS TO GROW
[00:35:00] THIS IS HIS STAFF. CRAZY IS ONE OF THE THEMES THAT
[00:35:04] DOES EMERGE, ESPECIALLY AFTER HE
[00:35:07] BECOMES PRESIDENT. IT CERTAINLY EXISTED BEFORE HE BECAME PRESIDENT, FOR EXAMPLE,
[00:35:10] AND HIS AFFAIRS, AND THAT IS
[00:35:13] THIS PENCHANT FOR LIE, LYING IS
[00:35:19] IS A POLITICAL NECESSITY TO SOME
[00:35:23] EXTENT, TO CHURCHILL FAMOUSLY SAID, YOU KNOW, THE TRUTH HAS TO
[00:35:27] BE PROTECTED BY A BODY OF LIES, ESPECIALLY DURING WAR.
[00:35:31] AND SO BUT ROOSEVELT, I THINK,
[00:35:37] WAS SO ENAMORED OF HIS OWN ABILITY, ONCE THOUGHT OF HIMSELF
[00:35:39] AS A JUGGLER, HE WAS SO CONVINCED OF HIS OWN SORT OF
[00:35:45] ABILITIES THAT I DON'T THINK HE REALLY I THINK HE ALWAYS THOUGHT
[00:35:47] HE WAS. ONE STEP AHEAD OF THE PEOPLE.
[00:35:51] HE WAS TALKING TO.
[00:35:54] AND I THINK THIS AGAIN, METAPHOR
[00:36:00] ITSELF, WHEN HE'S THINKING ABOUT
[00:36:01] RUNNING FOR A THIRD TERM, THE
[00:36:04] STAFF IS ALL SAYING, I ENCOURAGE
[00:36:08] YOU NOT TO RUN. AND BY THE WAY, HE HAD A REALLY GOOD STAFF.
[00:36:11] THERE ARE SOME TERRIFIC PEOPLE
[00:36:13] ON THE STAFF AND HE'S LYING TO
[00:36:17] EVERY ONE OF THEM. EACH ONE JIM FARLEY, FOR EXAMPLE, COMES TO HIM FOR THIS
[00:36:20] THINKING ABOUT RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT. AND ROOSEVELT JUST LIES TO HIM,
[00:36:24] TO HIS FACE, SAYS, OH, I DON'T THINK SO.
[00:36:26] I YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW THAT I WOULD TAKE THIS JOB EVEN IF I
[00:36:30] WERE OFFERED IT AND SO ON, SO FORTH.
[00:36:31] AND FARLEY KNOWS HE'S ALIVE AND
[00:36:36] THAT WAS THE END OF A VERY LONG,
[00:36:38] PRODUCTIVE RELATIONSHIP.
[00:36:40] FARLEY HOWEVER, IS TALKED INTO ATTENDING THE DEMOCRATIC
[00:36:44] NATIONAL CONVENTION BECAUSE
[00:36:48] ELEANOR ASKED HIM TO, BECAUSE HE WANTS FARLEY UNDERSTANDS THE
[00:36:52] UNITY OF THE PARTY MATTERS.
[00:36:57] HE'S NOT THE ONLY ONE THAT FDR
[00:36:59] SORT OF LIED TO.
[00:37:01] AND SO THERE THERE TIMES ALONG
[00:37:03] THE WAY IN WHICH ROOSEVELT
[00:37:07] DEMONSTRATES THIS AGAIN, PENCHANT FOR WINE, WHICH I SUPPOSE IN SOME SENSE IS
[00:37:12] STRATEGIC, BUT IT'S ALSO IT ENDS
[00:37:16] UP BACKFIRING BECAUSE IT IT IT
[00:37:22] DESTROYS PERSONAL RELATIONSHIPS.
[00:37:26] THE AGAIN, ROOSEVELT'S SON SAID
[00:37:30] A LOUIS HOUSE FUNERAL, NOT
[00:37:33] PUBLICLY, BUT HE WAS SORT OF WRITING THIS DOWN.
[00:37:35] LATER, HE HE THOUGHT THAT HOWE'S DEATH PROVIDED PERHAPS ONE OF
[00:37:38] THE FEW OPPORTUNITIES FOR FDR
[00:37:41] AND ELEANOR TO GET BACK TOGETHER.
[00:37:44] BUT OF COURSE, THAT THAT REALLY NEVER HAPPENED.
[00:37:48] AND SHE WAS NOT THERE, AS YOU ALL KNOW, AT THE END, SHE WALKS
[00:37:54] INTO I MEAN, SHE FIRST DISCOVERS IT IN A NOT GREAT WAY.
[00:38:00] THEN SHE TRAVELS DOWN TO GEORGIA
[00:38:02] AND SHE WALKS INTO THIS HOUSE TO
[00:38:08] SEE, YOU KNOW, SHE'S NOT SHE'S PRETTY SMART. SHE CAN FIGURE OUT WHAT'S GOING
[00:38:12] ON. YEAH.
[00:38:14] FRANKLIN LIED TO ME AGAIN, AND THEN SHE SAYS, I JUST NEED A
[00:38:18] MOMENT OR TWO ALONE. THAT'S THE CRITICAL MOMENT.
[00:38:21] SO NOBODY KNOWS WHAT HAPPENED BEHIND THAT CLOSED DOOR.
[00:38:25] BUT THAT'S THE MOMENT I THINK, IN WHICH WHATEVER HER TRUE
[00:38:29] FEELINGS WERE, WHATEVER HER MOTIONS WERE, SHE WAS NOT GOING
[00:38:33] TO YOU KNOW, SHE OBVIOUSLY JUST
[00:38:37] GAVE IN TO THEM.
[00:38:39] BUT SHE EMERGES FROM THE ROOM
[00:38:41] LIKE IRON AND SHE CARRIES ON FOR
[00:38:47] A LONG TIME AFTER HIS DEATH AS A
[00:38:51] DISTINGUISHED PUBLIC SERVANT.
[00:38:55] THIS IS JUST, BY THE WAY, THE
[00:38:58] INTRODUCTION. BUT I WORRY OUR TIME IS SORT OF
[00:39:03] MOVING ALONG AND THEREFORE, I AT LEAST WANT TO HAVE A CHANCE FOR
[00:39:06] YOU TO DISAGREE OR ASK QUESTIONS OR JUST DON'T THROW ANYTHING
[00:39:10] BECAUSE WE'RE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE ON C-SPAN.
[00:39:15] WHICH. YEAH, SO YOU AND HENRY
[00:39:19] MORGENTHAU WAS ONE OF HIS CLOSEST FRIENDS. HE LIVED IN BEACON RIGHT HERE. RIGHT.
[00:39:22] HE LIVED THERE. THEY WERE BUDDIES. AND, YOU KNOW, AND THERE'S A
[00:39:26] FAMOUS PICTURE OF HIM HAVING WITH CHURCHILL AND HIS SON,
[00:39:30] ROBERT MORGENTHAU COMES WITH THE TEA AND WHO WAS TO SIT DAY AND
[00:39:34] SO WHY DO YOU THINK THAT HE WAS? WHAT EVIDENCE DO YOU HAVE THAT
[00:39:37] HE WAS REALLY ANTI-SEMITIC? WHOSE CLOSEST FRIEND IS JEWISH,
[00:39:40] WAS IN HIS EARLY LIFE AND
[00:39:44] THROUGH, LET'S SAY, PRE POLIO? OH, I'M GOING FIRST BRING
[00:39:48] BROUGHT UP MEAN LETTERS AND STATEMENTS EVEN TO SOME EXTENT
[00:39:54] ACTIONS. I THINK YOU MIGHT SEE A TRICKLE
[00:39:56] OVER INTO HIS PRESIDENCY WITH RESPECT TO HIS RESISTANCE TO
[00:39:59] CIVIL RIGHTS, ALTHOUGH HE ALWAYS CAST IT AS HE JUST THOUGHT AS A
[00:40:02] POLITICAL LOSER FOR HIM. SHE WAS 20 YEARS OLD.
[00:40:06] HE HE'S EXPOSED EXPOSURE WHEN HE WAS FIRST BEING RAISED. SO I THINK IT WAS WHEN HE WAS YOUNGER.
[00:40:10] YOUNGER, BECAUSE HE WAS HE GREW
[00:40:12] UP AROUND PEOPLE WHO WERE WHO
[00:40:16] WERE. WELL, THAT'S POSSIBLE, YOU KNOW,
[00:40:18] LATER IN LIFE IN ALABAMA ORIGINALLY. SO I UNDERSTAND WHAT THAT'S LIKE. YEAH.
[00:40:22] BUT BUT LATER IN LIFE VERY EVEN LIKE WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE WHEN THEY HAD THE HE DIDN'T
[00:40:26] WANT TO BOMB THE CONCENTRATION CAMPS BUT THAT THAT WAS NOT
[00:40:30] BECAUSE OF ANY ANTISEMITISM. I THINK THAT WAS MORE I DON'T THINK SO.
[00:40:33] IT WAS MORGENTHAU WAS AN INCREDIBLY DISTINGUISHED PUBLIC
[00:40:38] SERVANT. YEAH, I'M SORRY. HE WAS A BIG INFLUENCE. YEAH. OH, YEAH.
[00:40:42] HE WAS A BIG INFLUENCE. BUT I DON'T THINK HE EVER HAD QUITE THE EXTENT OF INFLUENCE HE REALLY WANTED.
[00:40:47] AND ONE INDICATION OF THAT WAS THE THE CONCENTRATION CAMPS,
[00:40:51] BECAUSE I THINK HE WAS PART OF
[00:40:53] THAT CROWD THAT WANTED ROOSEVELT TO BE MORE AGGRESSIVE IN PUSHING
[00:40:57] BACK AGAINST NAZI.
[00:41:03] I DON'T WHAT THE RIGHT WORD IS
[00:41:07] THERE IS OF IT. HE JUST HORROR. HE WANTED TO WIN THE WAR.
[00:41:11] YEAH, YOU'RE RIGHT. YOU'RE OBVIOUSLY RIGHT. HE SAID WE GOT TO WIN THE WAR
[00:41:14] AND THAT WILL BE OUR BEST WAY TO FREE THE PEOPLE, THE PRISON
[00:41:19] CAMPS IN IS IS THINKING OUT LOUD ANYWAY.
[00:41:22] WAS WE CAN'T BOMB FOR A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT REASONS. ONE OF WHICH IS WE'RE GOING TO
[00:41:26] KILL INNOCENT PEOPLE, ANOTHER WE'RE GOING TO END UP DESTROYING
[00:41:30] THE RAILROADS AND OTHER THINGS THAT BRING FOOD AND OTHER THINGS
[00:41:33] TO VARIOUS AREAS IN GERMANY.
[00:41:36] AND HE DIDN'T WANT TO DESTROY
[00:41:39] THE INFRASTRUCTURE.
[00:41:42] BUT YOU HAVE TO MAKE CHOICES AND
[00:41:44] YOU HAVE TO MAKE HARD CHOICES. AND ONE OF THE LAST TWO PARTS OF
[00:41:47] HIS LEGACY IS HE DIDN'T.
[00:41:53] HE DIDN'T BECOME INVOLVED WITH
[00:41:55] HE DIDN'T COME VERY MUCH INVOLVED THE SO CALLED THE
[00:41:58] JEWISH QUESTION DURING WORLD WAR
[00:42:02] TWO. IF YOU HAVE A QUESTION, COULD YOU BY WHAT YOU. HE'S QUITE AWARE OF IT.
[00:42:06] STEVE WISE FAMOUS RABBI WHO CAME
[00:42:09] TO VISIT HIM HE WAS HE WOULD NOT
[00:42:11] TURN PEOPLE AWAY IT'S JUST THAT
[00:42:13] THEY DIDN'T GET AS MUCH TRACTION WITH THEM AS THEY WOULD HAVE ON HIM.
[00:42:17] OKAY. THANKS. UM, YOU MENTIONED THE, UH, THE
[00:42:21] THE GRODEN HEADMASTER, RIGHT? YEAH.
[00:42:25] AND HIS PHILOSOPHY ABOUT DOING GOOD FOR THE WORLD, WHICH
[00:42:27] OBVIOUSLY THEORISTS ACCURACY AT
[00:42:30] THAT POINT, THAT WASN'T THEIR MAIN THRUST, RIGHT?
[00:42:34] SO I'M INTERESTED IN HIS MENTORS
[00:42:36] THAT LED HIM TO THE NEW DEAL.
[00:42:38] LIKE, WAS THAT SOMETHING THAT
[00:42:40] SORT OF ARRIVES THROUGH, YOU KNOW, THAT WE'RE IN AN ECONOMIC
[00:42:45] CRISIS? YES. AND I WASN'T REALLY GOING ON THIS TRAJECTORY.
[00:42:47] BUT NOW WE'RE HERE AND I NEED
[00:42:49] SOME DYNAMIC IDEAS.
[00:42:51] AND OR WAS THAT PERCOLATING
[00:42:55] ALREADY FROM I MEAN, TR OBVIOUSLY HAD SOME PROGRESSIVE
[00:42:59] ASPECTS AND ALSO THE, THE 1920S,
[00:43:03] I MEAN, THERE WAS IDEAS OUT THERE, BUT I'M INTERESTED IN
[00:43:07] LIKE MENTORS IN THAT FORMATION PROCESS.
[00:43:10] LIKE HOW DID THAT REALLY HAPPEN? AND BY THE WAY, I'VE JUST
[00:43:14] LEARNED HOW TO USE A MIC FROM,
[00:43:15] YOU KNOW, THAT WAS A GREAT HE'S
[00:43:19] MY MENTOR. THAT WAS GOOD, HIS GREAT.
[00:43:22] AND SO.
[00:43:25] IT'S A GOOD QUESTION.
[00:43:27] HE'S GOT A LOT OF INFLUENCES THAT ARE DRIVING HIM IN THAT DIRECTION.
[00:43:30] I'M JUST GOING TO MENTION A COUPLE.
[00:43:32] ONE WAS WOODROW WILSON, WILSON
[00:43:35] WAS A PROGRESSIVE, OPENLY PROGRESSIVE, AND A LOT OF THINGS
[00:43:38] WE EVEN THINK OF AS PART OF THE NEW DEAL ACTUALLY STARTED WITH WILSON.
[00:43:41] WILSON WAS A PROGRESSIVE GOVERNOR OF NEW JERSEY AS WELL.
[00:43:45] SO WHEN ROOSEVELT LATER BECOMES GOVERNOR OF NEW YORK, HE'S
[00:43:47] TAKING SOME OF WILSON'S IDEAS
[00:43:49] FROM WHEN HE WAS GOVERNOR, AND HE'S USING THEM IN NEW YORK BY
[00:43:53] THE WAY, TO GREAT EFFECT.
[00:43:55] SO I THINK THAT'S ONE PLACE.
[00:43:58] I THINK A SECOND IS HE HAS.
[00:44:05] THERE ARE PEOPLE LIKE FRANCES
[00:44:07] PERKINS, WHO ARE EDUCATING HIM
[00:44:13] ABOUT DIFFERENT ASPECTS OF
[00:44:17] LEADERSHIP AND PARTICULARLY GOVERNMENT AND SO SHE, TOO, IS
[00:44:21] SORT OF SHE'S CERTAINLY SUPPORTS
[00:44:24] THE NEW DEAL AND SHE'S GIVING HIM IDEAS ABOUT HOW TO FORM IT.
[00:44:28] HE'S GOT ECONOMIC ADVISERS WHO
[00:44:31] ALSO HAVE SOME IMPACT.
[00:44:34] THERE ARE OTHER FOLKS I HAVEN'T MENTIONED, LIKE FELIX FRANKFURTER, WHO ARE CERTAINLY
[00:44:40] TRYING TO EXERT INFLUENCE OVER ROOSEVELT.
[00:44:43] AND FRANKFURTER IS A CHEERLEADER, YOU KNOW, FOR THAT.
[00:44:45] BUT I THINK ROOSEVELT PERCEIVES THAT THE NEW DEAL IN A WAY
[00:44:50] BRINGS TOGETHER A LOT OF THE THINGS HE HAD.
[00:44:54] HE ALREADY HAD SORT OF FIXED IN
[00:44:56] HIMSELF THIS IDEA OF NOBLESSE IS
[00:44:59] HOW GOVERNMENT HELPS PEOPLE, HOW LET'S GET PEOPLE BACK TO WORK.
[00:45:03] I WE HAVE OTHER WORK PROJECTS
[00:45:08] AND. YOU KNOW, OVER TIME COME AND STATION LABOR LAWS, THINGS LIKE
[00:45:12] THAT TO PROTECT PEOPLE WHO WEREN'T PROTECTED OTHERWISE.
[00:45:15] MANY OF YOU MAY KNOW THAT ONE OF
[00:45:18] THE DEFINING EVENTS OF FRANCE'S PURPOSES EARLY LIFE WAS WHEN SHE
[00:45:23] WAS HAVING, I THINK IT WAS TEA WITH SOME FRIENDS AND SOMEBODY
[00:45:27] CAME RUNNING IN SAYING, THERE'S
[00:45:29] THIS HUGE FIRE AT THIS FACTORY ROUGHLY ACROSS THE STREET.
[00:45:33] AND IT WAS A NUMBER OF WOMEN WORK THERE.
[00:45:37] AND FRANCES ACTUALLY RUNS OVER
[00:45:39] SCHNABEL TO HELP BECAUSE IT'S
[00:45:42] TOO LATE. BUT THAT LEAVES A LASTING IMPRESSION.
[00:45:46] AND THAT LEAVES AND SO FRANCE IS ALREADY THINKING ABOUT WE HAVE
[00:45:50] TO HAVE BETTER LABOR LAWS. WE HAVE TO HAVE THINGS THAT
[00:45:52] PROTECT WORKERS. WE HAVE TO HAVE KNOW.
[00:45:55] IT DOESN'T MATTER IF THEY'RE MEN OR WOMEN, BUT IT MATTERS IF
[00:45:59] YOU'RE WORKING. AND SO THAT'S, UM, I THINK THOSE
[00:46:02] ARE THE SOME OF THE INFLUENCE. BUT THEY'RE, THEY'RE ALL OVER THE PLACE. YOU MAY KNOW, YOU KNOW, JOHN
[00:46:06] KEYNES, THE ECONOMIST, IS
[00:46:10] WRITING LETTERS TO FDR, NOT NECESSARILY HAVING A GREAT DEAL
[00:46:14] OF TRACTION, BUT HE'S TRYING TO
[00:46:16] SORT OF ALMOST PROVIDE ECONOMIC
[00:46:18] ECONOMIC FOUNDATION FOR THIS IDEA OF THE NEW DEAL.
[00:46:24] AND HE'S NOT ALONE. HE'S BROUGHT IN SOME, YOU KNOW,
[00:46:27] THE FAMOUS BRAIN TRUST. YOU KNOW, THEY'RE ALL THERE.
[00:46:31] THEY'RE ALL HELPING BOTH CONCEIVE THIS AND EXECUTE IT.
[00:46:34] BUT I THINK FOR ME, ONE OF THE CRITICAL THINGS IS WHAT MADE
[00:46:38] ROOSEVELT RECEPTIVE TO ALL THAT.
[00:46:41] AND I THINK IT WAS THE THE IT
[00:46:44] WAS A COMBINATION OF INFLUENCES THAT INCLUDE NOT JUST FATHER
[00:46:48] ENDICOTT PEABODY, FRANCES PERKINS. TR BY THE WAY.
[00:46:52] TR WAS A PROGRESSIVE AND SO AND
[00:46:54] OF COURSE, WILSON I THINK WILSON
[00:46:56] IN A CONCRETES SENSE, MAY HAVE
[00:46:59] HAD THE BIGGEST INFLUENCE.
[00:47:06] THE QUESTIONS, ANY OTHER QUESTIONS?
[00:47:08] CAN I CAN I JUST I'M JUST WANT TO MENTION ONE LAST THING.
[00:47:12] JUST BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, I HAD A
[00:47:16] PROFESSOR IN COLLEGE WHO GREATLY INFLUENCED ME.
[00:47:19] MY TALKING ABOUT HE WAS A STUDENT, BUT HE GREATLY
[00:47:22] INFLUENCED ME IN THINKING ABOUT HISTORIANS AS DETECTIVES.
[00:47:25] AND SO I, I THINK OF THE
[00:47:28] SOMETIMES THE THINGS I TACKLE AS LIKE MYSTERIES I'M TRYING TO SOLVE.
[00:47:32] AND ONE OF THE GREATEST MYSTERIES, OF COURSE, OF ALL IS
[00:47:35] WHY IN THE WORLD DID FDR TAKE ON
[00:47:40] TRUMAN. TRUE, TRUE.
[00:47:46] AND I DON'T KNOW THAT WE CAN
[00:47:48] EVER GET THE DEFINITIVE ANSWER.
[00:47:50] PART OF IT IS NOBODY ELSE. WE'RE SORT OF WORKED OUT THE
[00:47:56] LIABILITIES. OTHER PEOPLE WERE TOO OVERWHELMED. WHATEVER BENEFITS THEY WOULD HAVE BROUGHT.
[00:48:01] TRUMAN HAD BEEN A NEW DEAL
[00:48:04] DEMOCRAT AND A LOYAL ONE, WHICH MADE A DIFFERENCE.
[00:48:08] BUT A COUPLE OF THINGS I'LL JUST
[00:48:10] MENTION ON THIS AND I'LL CLOSE. IT WAS INTERESTING TO ME IN PART
[00:48:14] BECAUSE ROOSEVELT HERE WAS NOT LEARNING FROM PRESIDENTIAL
[00:48:18] HISTORY. ABRAHAM LINCOLN DIDN'T THINK
[00:48:21] ABOUT IT MUCH EITHER, AND HE HIRED OR BROUGHT ON ANDREW
[00:48:25] JOHNSON, WHICH WAS NOT EXACTLY THE GREATEST.
[00:48:29] YEAH, NOT A GREAT CHOICE, BUT HE WAS NOT THE ONLY ONE, YOU KNOW,
[00:48:34] PRESENCE CANNOT PICK THE TIMES
[00:48:36] WHEN THEY DIED, BUT WHAT THEY
[00:48:38] CAN DO IS REALIZE THAT
[00:48:42] PRESIDENTS DO DIE. AND IF YOU WANT YOUR LEGACY TO
[00:48:45] EXTEND HAVING SOMEBODY THAT
[00:48:48] REPLACES YOU, ENSURE THAT THEY
[00:48:50] HAVE THE SAME VALUES.
[00:48:53] AND I THINK I THINK ROOSEVELT DID THAT.
[00:48:56] HE KNEW HE WAS DYING. YEAH.
[00:49:00] AND I THINK, BY THE WAY, TRUMAN
[00:49:02] WRITES ALL THE TIME IN AND TALKS
[00:49:06] TO OTHER SENATORS ALL THE TIME ABOUT HOW MUCH FDR LIVES.
[00:49:10] AND IT JUST COMES ALMOST LIKE A
[00:49:14] INSIDE JOKE. YOU KNOW, FOR PEOPLE.
[00:49:18] BUT BUT IT SHOWS THAT TRUMAN UNDERSTOOD THAT.
[00:49:21] AND IT SHOWS THAT TRUMAN WOULD
[00:49:22] TAKE HIS OWN LESSON FROM THAT, WHICH IS HE'S ONE OF THE
[00:49:25] STRAIGHTEST SHOOTERS WE'VE EVER HAD ANYWAY.
[00:49:28] BUT THAT'S ANOTHER BOOK TO GIVE A BIG HAND. THANK YOU.
[00:49:37] ONE.
[00:49:42] YES. NEXT, MORE FROM HYDE PARK, NEW YORK, AND THE ROOSEVELT READING
[00:49:48] FESTIVAL. THANK YOU FOR JOINING US AT THE
[00:49:51] ROOSEVELT READING FESTIVAL HERE IN HYDE PARK AT THE FDR
[00:49:55] PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY. I AM KIRSTEN STRUGGLE. CARTER. THE