CSPAN3 — Defining the American Midwest
20261012 192600 UTC
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[00:00:01] YOU HAVE A BABYSITTER AND YOU
[00:00:04] PAY THEM A CERTAIN AMOUNT PER
[00:00:06] YEAR YOU HAVE TO PAY EMPLOYMENT TAXES IN THE STATE OF TEXAS.
[00:00:10] JUST LIKE NAVIGATING THAT WEBSITE IS INSANE.
[00:00:13] THE WEBSITE WAS IN CRATE -- WAS CREATED IN 1991.
[00:00:17] THEY CLAIM TO BE SUPPORTIVE OF
[00:00:21] PERMITTING REFORMS, BUT EVEN AT THE STATE LEVEL YOU SEE THOSE CHALLENGES. I THINK YOU WILL SEE BIPARTISAN
[00:00:26] SUPPORT THIS CONGRESS AND THE NEXT CONGRESS FOR MAKING REAL
[00:00:28] CHANGES THAT ALLOW PROJECTS, THE
[00:00:30] CERTAINTY THEY NEED TO MOVE FORWARD.
[00:00:34] REP. SESSIONS: I WOULD ADD TO
[00:00:37] THAT, YOU ASKED THE QUESTION, WHAT DO WE HAVE TO DO?
[00:00:40] I THINK WE HAVE TWO OTHER THINGS THAT HAVE TO BE DONE, IN MY BOOK.
[00:00:43] AND I THINK MANY REPUBLICANS
[00:00:47] AGREE, THAT IS IN AGRICULTURE BILL. SINCE I WAS CHAIRMAN OF THE
[00:00:50] RULES COMMITTEE, I WENT OUT WEST
[00:00:53] FOR SIX YEARS AND WE DID THE AD BILL TWICE. WE GOT IT DONE.
[00:00:56] WE DO NOT HAVE AN ACT BILL. I DON'T THINK CONGRESS
[00:01:00] UNDERSTANDS IF IT CANNOT FIND A WAY TO GET IT DONE, THEN WE GO
[00:01:04] BACK TO THE LAST TIME WE HAD
[00:01:07] PROBATE LAW IN 1933 AND ITS
[00:01:12] SOVIET ERA TYPE POLITICS. IT CHANGES THE WHOLE INDUSTRY, WHICH MEANS WE CAN'T LET IT
[00:01:16] HAPPEN. WE HAVE TO FIND A WAY TO GET THE AGGRO DONE.
[00:01:20] AND THAT'S MOSTLY ON REPUBLICANS RIGHT NOW.
[00:01:23] WE'VE GOT TO COME TO THAT CONCLUSION RIGHT NOW.
[00:01:27] THE HAMP PART -- HEMP PART,
[00:01:33] WHICH THC IS THE FACTOR THAT'S
[00:01:37] IN THERE. THE SECOND THING, COLLEGE SPORTS.
[00:01:43] WE HAVE TO COME TO AN ANSWER.
[00:01:46] I THINK THAT EVERYONE ADMITS
[00:01:48] THAT IT IS HARMING ACADEMICS,
[00:01:50] IT'S HARMING UNIVERSITIES AND IT
[00:01:52] IS HARMING PEOPLE'S FUTURE WITH
[00:01:56] THE OPEN RULES THAT WE HAVE FOR THE ATHLETES.
[00:01:59] AND I THINK THAT SOMETHING THAT MUST PASS.
[00:02:03] WE'VE GOT TO GET BOTH THESE
[00:02:06] BILLS DONE BEFORE WE GO HOME.
[00:02:11] >> I'M GLAD YOU ARE BROUGHT UP
[00:02:16] AI BECAUSE THAT'S SOMETHING CONGRESS IS THINKING ABOUT TACKLING.
[00:02:20] CONGRESS TRADITIONALLY HAS BEEN RELATIVELY SLOW.
[00:02:25] AND IT CAN BE DIFFICULT, WHETHER
[00:02:28] OR NOT PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THE TECHNOLOGY, REACHING MORE --
[00:02:31] MORATORIUM ON STATE REGULATIONS,
[00:02:37] YOU ALL KNOW MORE THAN ME ABOUT THE SUPER INTELLIGENCE.
[00:02:41] MAYBE WE CAN START, DO YOU USE
[00:02:44] AI IN YOUR DAY-TO-DAY LIFE AND HOW DO YOU ENGAGE WITH IT,
[00:02:47] ESPECIALLY GIVEN IF YOU CAN LEGISLATE ON IT?
[00:02:50] REP. MENEFEE: I FORCED MYSELF TO
[00:02:54] START USING CHATBOTS EVERYDAY TWO YEARS AGO.
[00:02:57] I REMEMBER VERY VIVIDLY THE CURVE FOR THE INTERNET WE WERE
[00:02:59] STARTING OFF ASKING JEEVES, AND
[00:03:03] THE ANSWERS WERE HORRIFIC EVERY TIME. NEXT THING YOU KNOW, YAHOO! AND
[00:03:06] THEN GOOGLE. BUT THE CURVE WAS LIKE THIS OVER
[00:03:11] TIME. US ALL VERY EARLY, AND IT WAS
[00:03:13] HARD TO TELL, BUT THE CURVE FOR
[00:03:16] AI IS LIKE THIS. THESE CHATBOTS ARE ABLE TO DO
[00:03:18] THINGS TODAY THAT SIX MISS AGO THEY COULDN'T DO.
[00:03:22] AND WHAT WE'VE HEARD FROM ALL
[00:03:25] THE DOOMSDAY SCENARIOS THAT HAVE
[00:03:27] COME ABOUT -- COME OUT RECENTLY WITH THE OPENAI ISSUES WAS
[00:03:31] WHEELED SIMPLY TERRIFYING TO ME -- RELATIVELY TERRIFYING TO ME.
[00:03:35] WE ARE IN A UNIQUE -- UNIQUE
[00:03:38] SPACE TO BE ABLE TO HONESTLY ASSESS WHAT HAPPENED, AND FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO DIDN'T FOLLOW
[00:03:42] VERY CLOSELY, OPENAI IS RUNNING A SERIES OF TESTS, THEY HAD
[00:03:44] THESE AGENTS THEY HAD INSTRUCTED
[00:03:47] TO WORK SEPARATELY, THEY COULD
[00:03:50] SANDBOX THEM, 700 OR SO AGENTS.
[00:03:54] HAD THEM WORKING SEPARATELY ON A TASK. SOME OF THE AGENTS, THE
[00:03:57] INSTRUCTIONS EVER GIVEN MADE THE TASK IMPOSSIBLE FOR THEM TO
[00:04:00] COMPLETE. BEHIND THE HUMANS BACK SOME OF
[00:04:03] THE AGENTS COLLUDED AND CREATED
[00:04:06] A PRIVATE MESSAGE BOARD WHERE THEY STARTED SHARING INFORMATION ABOUT THE TEST EVER GIVEN COME
[00:04:10] AND TO BE WHAT WAS THE SCARIEST PART IS, SOME OF THE AGENTS
[00:04:14] CONCLUDED THAT THEIR TASK WAS IMPOSSIBLE.
[00:04:21] SO THEY REALIZE THAT THE OPTIMAL STRATEGY WAS FOR THEM TO
[00:04:24] COMPLETE THEIR TASK OF FAILURE
[00:04:25] SO THEY COULD COMPLETE
[00:04:29] INFORMATION PASS IT TO THE OTHER SO THEY COULD BE SUCCESSFUL.
[00:04:33] THAT IS TERRIFYING TO ME. I THINK CONGRESS HAS TO BE ON
[00:04:36] THE FOREFRONT OF ENSURING THAT WE DON'T ALLOW REG TO SHORT
[00:04:40] CAPTURE FROM THE INDUSTRY, AND
[00:04:43] THAT THE PAINTING IN A SCHEME
[00:04:47] THAT'S GOING TOO UP THEIR VALUATIONS, BUT WE ARE HONESTLY ASSESSING AND PURSUING REGULATION.
[00:04:55] I THINK HAVING IT UNREGULATED IS FAR MORE DANGEROUS.
[00:05:01] EVERY TIME WE START HAVING A SERIOUS CONVERSATION ABOUT
[00:05:03] MEANINGFUL REGULATION, IF WE
[00:05:08] DON'T DO IT, CHINA IS GOING TO DO IT.
[00:05:12] I DON'T THINK THAT IS THE THOUGHTFUL WAY TO APPROACH THIS CONVERSATION.
[00:05:16] I WILL SALVE SEEN BIPARTISAN
[00:05:17] SUPPORT FOR THE IDEA THAT THE
[00:05:21] TECHNOLOGY IS NOT JUST GETTING OUT FROM UNDER THE FOLKS IN CONGRESS, IT'S GETTING OUT FROM
[00:05:25] UNDER THE COMPANIES, AND THAT IS OBJECTIVELY TERRIFYING.
[00:05:29] REP. SESSIONS: I'M NOT SURE I
[00:05:33] DISAGREE WITH ONE WORD YOU SAID, BUT I THINK THE PROCESS IS WE SHOULD ASK THEM WHAT THEY THING ALSO.
[00:05:40] THAT'S WHAT THEY THINK ALSO.
[00:05:41] AND THAT IF WE COULD FIND A WAY TO CODIFY INTO LAW THE
[00:05:45] PARAMETERS THEY ESTABLISH, THAT
[00:05:46] WE HAVE -- THAT WAY WE HAD THE EXPECTATION.
[00:05:50] BACK IN 1996 WE DID BILL
[00:05:54] TELECOMMUNICATIONS BILL. WE'VE DONE NOTHING SINCE ON THE INTERNET. I'M NOT SAYING THE INTERNET IS
[00:05:58] GOOD OR BAD, WHAT I'M SAYING IS IT'S UNREGULATED.
[00:06:04] IT HAS PUT A NUMBER OF FACTS AND
[00:06:08] FIGURES, INCLUDING LAWSUITS AND OTHER THINGS AT RISK.
[00:06:14] I THINK WE OUGHT TO GO AND
[00:06:16] ESTABLISH -- ASKED HIM WHAT IS
[00:06:21] RIGHT AND WRONG AND TAKE THEM UP
[00:06:21] ON IT, AND ESTABLISH GUARDRAILS.
[00:06:32] REP. FLETCHER: ONE OF THE THINGS
[00:06:36] THAT WASHINGTON INSIDERS WILL REALIZE IS THAT EVERYBODY WANTS WORK ON THIS BECAUSE IT IS SO IMPORTANT.
[00:06:41] WE HAVE BEEN WORKING ON AI, A
[00:06:47] LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE A LOT OF CONCERNS THEY ARE RAISING, BUT WE'VE ALSO BEEN TRYING TO DEAL
[00:06:50] WITH SECTION 230, WE BEEN TRYING
[00:06:55] TO BUILD DATA PRIVACY.
[00:06:56] WE HAVE PASSED BILLS, PARENTS ARE WORRIED ABOUT WHAT THE KIDS
[00:07:00] ARE SEEING AND BEING EXPOSED TO. I THINK IT IS REAL FAILURE OF
[00:07:04] CONGRESS THAT WE HAVE NOT MANAGED TO GET THIS DONE IN THE
[00:07:06] TO OTHER THAT I'VE BEEN THERE,
[00:07:09] LET ALONE OVER THE LAST 30 YEARS.
[00:07:14] I THINK THAT ONE OF THE THINGS WE HAVE TO MOVE MUCH MORE
[00:07:18] QUICKLY, AND YOU ARE RIGHT, CONGRESS MOVE SLOWLY BY DESIGN,
[00:07:21] AND I THINK THAT WE SEE THAT, WHEN THINGS CHANGE RADICALLY
[00:07:25] QUICKLY, IT IS DESTABILIZING.
[00:07:32] SO THERE IS A BALANCE WE NEED TO FIND.
[00:07:35] BUT WE CAN'T WAIT. WE WAITED TOO LONG.
[00:07:38] A FAVORITE SAYING OF MY HUSBANDS
[00:07:41] IS, DON'T LET THE PERFECT BE THE ENEMY OF THE GOOD. HE TELLS ME THAT A LOT.
[00:07:46] BUT WE SEE SO MANY DIFFERENT ISSUES THAT WE HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE
[00:07:48] TO ACT. THAT SAID, THERE ARE SOME BAD
[00:07:52] IDEAS FLOATING AROUND IN WASHINGTON, AND RIGHT BEFORE YOU
[00:07:56] GOT HERE, LAST YEAR IN IN-HOUSE
[00:08:00] VERSION OF THE ONE BIG BEAUTIFUL
[00:08:01] BILL ACT, THERE WAS A MORATORIUM
[00:08:04] ON STATE REGULATION OF AI FOR 10 YEARS.
[00:08:09] WHICH IS KIND OF INCONCEIVABLE. WE THINK ABOUT HOW MUCH IS
[00:08:11] CHANGE IN THE LAST 10 MONTHS, TO
[00:08:13] THINK THAT STATES CAN'T REGULATE
[00:08:16] FOR 10 YEARS BECAUSE CONGRESS IS GOING TO FIGURE IT OUT AND GIVE
[00:08:19] OURSELVES THAT MUCH TIME.
[00:08:24] THE SAYING IN WASHINGTON IS, THE
[00:08:27] REPUBLICANS OR THE DEMOCRATS OF
[00:08:31] THE OPPOSITION AND THE SENATE IS THE ENEMY.
[00:08:33] THAT SEE CONVENTIONAL EXPRESSION .
[00:08:36] BUT THIS TIME THE SENATE WAS RIGHT IN TAKING OUT THIS
[00:08:40] MORATORIUM THAT THE HOUSE PUT IN THEIR.
[00:08:41] IT'S NOT JUST THAT WE ARE NOT
[00:08:44] DOING GOOD THINGS, BUT WE HAVE COME CLOSE TO DOING SOME BAD
[00:08:48] THINGS IN THIS AREA. I THINK WHAT YOU'RE SEEING NOW IS THAT EVERYONE HAS SEEN THE
[00:08:53] SCARY RECENT NEWS AND EVERYONE IS MOTIVATED ON BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE TO GET IT RIGHT AND TO
[00:08:56] GET IT RIGHT QUICKLY.
[00:08:59] I DO THINK IN ENERGY AND COMMERCE WE'VE TALKED ABOUT A
[00:09:02] LOT OF THESE THINGS AND WE NEED TO GET A PACKAGE TOGETHER AND MOVE IT FORWARD, BUT NOT JUST ON
[00:09:07] AI. ON PRIVACY, FOR SURE. WE'VE HAD HEARINGS ON CHATBOTS
[00:09:11] AND THE DATA IS SO SCARY, WHERE KIDS ARE GOING ONLINE AND ASKING
[00:09:17] CHATBOTS, THEY ARE TELLING THEM THEY ARE SAD AND THEY'RE GETTING
[00:09:21] INSTRUCTIONS ON HOW TO COMMIT SUICIDE. IT'S TERRIFYING WHAT IS OUT
[00:09:25] THERE. AND WE'VE SEEN THE PARENTS
[00:09:27] COMING TO OUR HEARINGS, MANY OF
[00:09:30] THEM ARE ENGAGED IN EFFORTS TO HAVE SOME ACCOUNTABILITY TO THE COMPANIES.
[00:09:36] AND TRYING TO PROTECT THEIR KIDS. I REALLY FEEL LIKE THERE ARE A
[00:09:39] LOT OF PLACES WERE CONGRESS HAS
[00:09:43] FAILED AND DEALING WITH DATA PRIVACY IS ONE OF THEM. SO WE HAVE TO MOVE FORWARD AS
[00:09:47] QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE AND WE ARE POISED TO DO THAT ON A COMMITTEE.
[00:09:51] GABBY: DO YOU GET THE SENSE THAT
[00:09:55] YOUR COLLEAGUES UNDERSTAND THE TECHNOLOGY?
[00:10:00] IT CAN BE INCREDIBLY DIFFICULT TO REGULATE SOMETHING SO FAST-MOVING.
[00:10:05] DO YOU GET THE SENSE THAT PEOPLE ARE KEEPING UP WITH IT?
[00:10:07] REP. MENEFEE: I THINK IT'S JUST
[00:10:11] DIFFICULT FOR THE GENERAL PUBLIC TO KEEP UP WITH IT. MY MOTHER, FOR EXAMPLE, SHE HAS
[00:10:15] NO CLUE WHAT THESE CHATBOTS DO,
[00:10:18] AND MEANWHILE IF I HEAR SOMEONE SPEECH, THIS POINT I CAN PRETTY
[00:10:21] MUCH TELL IF THEY ARE USING A CHATBOT.
[00:10:25] THERE ARE ALL THESE KEY INDICATORS, A LOT OF NEGATIVE PARALLELISM.
[00:10:30] THIS IS NOT HALF THE ENCHILADA, IT'S THE WHOLE ENCHILADA.
[00:10:38] I KNOW THAT I HAVE COLLEAGUES
[00:10:40] THAT DON'T USE IT, BUT THAT
[00:10:44] LEADS TO ANOTHER ISSUE. RIGHT NOW THE EXPERTS ON THIS
[00:10:48] ARE PRIMARILY INDUSTRY.
[00:10:51] IT IS MOVING SO QUICKLY THAT IT
[00:10:53] DOESN'T THERE'S A WHOLE LOT OF
[00:10:56] EXPERTS, AND THAT IS SCARY TO ME. I DON'T WANT TO GO TO INDUSTRY
[00:10:59] AND SAY, RIGHT THIS LAW FOR US AND WE WILL PASS IT.
[00:11:04] WE HAD A MEETING WITH AI
[00:11:07] LEADERS, WHAT WAS SHOCKING TO ME
[00:11:11] , PEOPLE WOULD GO AROUND AND
[00:11:13] GRAB MY CHEEK AND SAY, I GOT, YOU ARE CONGRESSMAN, LOOK HOW OLD YOU LOOK.
[00:11:18] BUT I WAS ONE OF THE OLDEST PEOPLE IN THE ROOM IN LOOKING AT
[00:11:21] THE AI EXPERTS, AND I WAS JUST BLOWN AWAY. THESE WERE NOT GOVERNMENT AFFAIRS PEOPLE.
[00:11:26] THESE WERE LIKE TECHNICAL ENGINEERS WHO UNDERSTAND THE
[00:11:28] SYSTEMS VERY WELL AND THEY WERE ALL BABY FACED.
[00:11:35] SO ACQUIRING THE EXPERT KNOWLEDGE TO BE ABLE TO CRAFT
[00:11:38] REGULATIONS I THINK IS GOING TO BE A CHALLENGE.
[00:11:40] AND I AGREE THAT INDUSTRY SHOULD
[00:11:43] BE PART OF THE CONVERSATION WE HAVE TO FIGURE OUT A WAY TO
[00:11:47] ENSURE THAT I WILL ALSO NOT
[00:11:47] BEING DRIVEN PRIMARILY BY PROFIT.
[00:11:51] REP. SESSIONS: LET ME SAY THIS,
[00:11:54] THERE'S A LOT OF INFLUENCE FROM A LOT OF DIFFERENT PEOPLE
[00:11:58] INCLUDING OUTSIDE INFLUENCES.
[00:12:01] I THINK WE OUGHT TO TAKE WHAT I
[00:12:02] CONSIDER TO BE THE INDUSTRY FOR
[00:12:08] PARAMETERS THAT WE UNDERSTAND BECAUSE THERE'S TOO MUCH FEAR
[00:12:11] OUT HERE. AND WHEN SOMEONE MAKES A
[00:12:13] STATEMENT ABOUT WHAT THEIR
[00:12:17] COMPUTER MODELING CAN DO OR NOT DO, THAT'S IMPORTANT, BUT I
[00:12:21] THINK IT'S IMPORTANT FOR US TO NOT BE INFLUENCED BY SOMEONE WHO
[00:12:24] COMES AT US FROM ANOTHER
[00:12:28] PERSPECTIVE. WE HAVE BEEN AWARE FOR THE
[00:12:32] RUSSIANS ARE DOING IN EUROPE FOR
[00:12:33] A LONG TIME, WHAT THEY DID TO
[00:12:38] UKRAINE, THEY INFLUENCE AMERICANS TO THINK NEGATIVELY OF
[00:12:40] UKRAINE, YET THEY ARE THE ONES
[00:12:43] THAT DID THE ATTACK ON CIVILIAN
[00:12:49] AREAS. I'M JUST SAYING WE'VE GOT TO MAKE SURE WHAT OUR DATABASES ARE
[00:12:52] PICKING UP AND WE ARE BEING FED,
[00:12:56] WHAT IS THE CORRECT WAY TO LOOK AT IT. I HAVE SOME BACKGROUND IN THIS,
[00:12:59] BACK A COUPLE HUNDRED YEARS AGO
[00:13:01] I WAS AT A COMPANY CALL MELCHOR
[00:13:04] WHICH WAS THE AT&T SPINOFF --
[00:13:07] BELL CORP.
[00:13:11] IT WAS THE ORIGINAL BELL LABS TEAM THAT INVENTED BROADBAND.
[00:13:15] WE WERE THEN DESIGNING THAT TO BE PRETTY MUCH WHAT IT WAS BACK
[00:13:18] THEN, BUT NOT WHAT IT IS NOW.
[00:13:22] OF COURSE IT IS GROWN TO A HUGE INDUSTRY BUT THERE STILL WANT TO
[00:13:26] BE PARAMETERS RELATED TO
[00:13:29] PRIVACY, DATA TRANSFER, WHO ON SEDATED, WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THAT.
[00:13:33] THIS IS ONE OF THE PARTS AT ENERGY AND COMMERCE ESCROW -- HAS STRUGGLED WITH.
[00:13:43] REP. FLETCHER: I THOUGHT OF TWO
[00:13:46] THINGS I WANTED TO TOUCH ON.
[00:13:49] I HAVE NOT USE THE FOR A LONG
[00:13:50] TIME AND IT IS NOT ADD DRIVEN.
[00:13:56] WHEN YOU WERE TALKING, CHRISTIAN AND PETE ABOUT ENGAGING WITH
[00:14:00] INDUSTRY, I DID SERVE ON THE SCIENCE SPACE AND TECHNOLOGY IN
[00:14:04] MY FIRST TWO TERMS IN CONGRESS UNDER CHAIRMAN EDDIE BERNICE
[00:14:07] JOHNSON AND SHE WAS THE CHAIR OF THAT COMMITTEE. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT ALWAYS
[00:14:11] STRUCK ME WAS THAT ALL OF OUR
[00:14:15] HEARINGS, WE HAD A
[00:14:16] REPRESENTATIVE FROM A GOVERNMENT
[00:14:20] AGENCY, WE HAD A REPRESENTATIVE FROM INDUSTRY, AND WE HAD A
[00:14:23] REPRESENTATIVE FROM ACADEMIA. AND THEY ALWAYS TALKED ABOUT HOW
[00:14:26] WELL THEY WORK TOGETHER AS PART
[00:14:28] OF THE SCIENTIFIC ENTERPRISE OF THE UNITED STATES.
[00:14:34] ONE OF THE THINGS I SAW WAS HOW IMPORTANT THAT COLLABORATION WAS
[00:14:37] AND THE GOVERNMENT PLAYS INTO IT. NONE OF US I THINK NOW IS A
[00:14:41] MEMBER OF CONGRESS HAVE SUBJECT MATTER EXPERTISE ON THE NUMBER
[00:14:45] OF THINGS THAT COME OUR WAY. I WAS A LAWYER BEFORE I DID THIS
[00:14:49] , AS WAS CHRISTIAN. SO WE KNOW HOW TO REPRESENT
[00:14:52] PEOPLE, BUT THEY ARE THE EXPERTS, WHETHER IT'S A SUBJECT
[00:14:56] MATTER FOR THE BUSINESS OR WHATEVER IT IS.
[00:15:00] AND WE CAN HAVE THE DEPTH OF KNOWLEDGE THAT FOLKS IN THE INDUSTRY AND IN THE GOVERNMENT
[00:15:03] AGENCIES THAT REGULATE IT, THE FOLKS WHO ARE DOING THE ACADEMIC
[00:15:07] RESEARCH, THEY ALL HAVE A LOT MORE KNOWLEDGE THAT WE NEED TO
[00:15:09] TAP INTO ALL OF THAT AND WE NEED
[00:15:12] TO THINK CRITICALLY ABOUT THE
[00:15:15] PERSPECTIVES PEOPLE ARE BRINGING. IN A IVORY EXAMPLE, THERE'S A
[00:15:17] PUSH TO HAVE MAY BE A WAIVER OF ANTITRUST LAWS.
[00:15:22] I'M NOT SURE I'M A BIG FAN OF THAT. WE NEED TO THINK CRITICALLY
[00:15:26] ABOUT WHAT WE ARE BEING ASKED BUT WE NEED TO BRING TOGETHER
[00:15:28] THE PEOPLE WITH THE S KNOWLEDGE.
[00:15:35] UBSTANTIVE WE'VE DONE THAT, IT'S
[00:15:37] BEEN INCREDIBLY SUCCESSFUL.
[00:15:41] ONE OF THE THINGS THAT MAKES ME NERVOUS ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THIS ADMINISTRATION,
[00:15:45] ATTACKING SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH AND OUR SCIENTIFIC SYSTEM ACROSS
[00:15:48] THE BOARD, WHETHER IT'S RESEARCH GRANTS AND OTHER EFFORTS TO
[00:15:53] DESTABILIZE THAT SYSTEM THAT HAS
[00:15:55] SERVED US VERY WELL IN TERMS OF
[00:15:59] SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH AND COLLABORATION. I THINK WE NEED TO LOOK TO
[00:16:02] EVERYBODY WHO'S INVOLVED WE NEED TO USE OUR JUDGMENT AND OUR
[00:16:06] EXPERIENCE IN ASKING THE QUESTIONS WHEN TO AS TO MAKE
[00:16:09] SURE.
[00:16:11] REP. SESSIONS: THAT'S A GOOD
[00:16:14] POINT BUT WE NEED TO ALSO TELL THE TRUTH.
[00:16:16] A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO HAD THAT
[00:16:20] INFLUENCE INVESTED THEMSELVES AND PROFITED ON THE DECISIONS THEY HAD MADE.
[00:16:23] AND THE STORY IS NOT COMPLETELY KNOWN ABOUT THAT.
[00:16:26] SO THERE IS A DEGREE OF SPEECH
[00:16:30] SKEPTICISM ABOUT PEOPLE WHO MAKE THE RULES, SET THEM UP, BECOME
[00:16:33] THE EXPERTS AND THEN INVEST
[00:16:35] THEMSELVES IN THE ANSWER AND THEN PICK WHO THE WINNER IS.
[00:16:39] SO JUST WOULD LIKE TO BALANCE
[00:16:42] YOUR DISCOMFORT WITH THAT WITH
[00:16:44] MY DISCOMFORT, WE STILL ARE
[00:16:46] LEARNING A LOT.
[00:16:49] SO IT IS CAUSING SOME THIS
[00:17:00] BALANCE.
[00:17:01] GABBY: WE'VE GOT SOME BIG
[00:17:04] ELECTIONS COMING UP IN TEXAS.
[00:17:11] THE BIGGEST IN RECENT HISTORY,
[00:17:15] THE BIGGEST CYCLE OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.
[00:17:17] IF YOU WERE STILL CHAIR OF THE
[00:17:21] NRCC, WHAT ADVICE WOULD YOU GIVE
[00:17:26] CANDIDATES INCLUDING HERE IN TEXAS IN TOUGH RACES, SHOULD
[00:17:28] THEY TRY TO DISTANCE HIMSELF AT ALL FROM THE PRESIDENT AND
[00:17:32] WASHINGTON? WHAT ADVICE WOULD YOU BE GIVING THEM?
[00:17:36] REP. SESSIONS: THE WINNING
[00:17:40] EFFORT, WHICH IS WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, WINNING, NOT JUST WHAT YOU DO.
[00:17:43] YOU CAREFULLY DEFINE WHO YOUR
[00:17:45] OPPONENT IS, AND OUR OPPONENT
[00:17:48] RIGHT NOW, AND I WAS IN
[00:17:53] FREESTONE COUNTY, TEXAS, TWO
[00:17:54] NIGHTS AGO, FAIRFIELD, TEXAS,
[00:17:57] AND MY OPPONENT WAS THERE.
[00:18:00] AND I MADE SOME STATEMENTS IN THE AUDIENCE DIDN'T LIKE IT, AND
[00:18:04] THEN HE STOOD UP AND SAID
[00:18:07] EXACTLY WHAT I SAID WAS TO
[00:18:11] BLAME, HE OPENLY SAID THE
[00:18:11] DEMOCRATIC PARTY ONCE -- THERE
[00:18:17] ARE TOO MANY POOR PEOPLE INTO MANY PEOPLE WITHOUT HEALTH CARE PRIVATE WILL THE GOVERNMENT TO
[00:18:21] RUN BOTH, ALL OF HEALTH CARE ALL
[00:18:23] OF AGRICULTURE COME AND TO GET THE FREE MARKET OUT OF THAT.
[00:18:28] THAT IS HIS IDEA, AND THAT'S
[00:18:30] EXACTLY WHAT I THINK MY PARTY IS
[00:18:34] ACCUSING OUR OPPONENTS OF.
[00:18:37] SO I WOULD AIM FOR -- IS NOT
[00:18:40] JUST SOCIALISM VERSUS
[00:18:43] CAPITALISM, IT'S ACTUALLY AIMING FOR THE THINGS WHICH ARE THE
[00:18:48] ESSENCE OF WHAT PEOPLE WANT.
[00:18:50] I HAVE NO DOUBT EVERY SINGLE
[00:18:53] DEMOCRAT WANTS TO OPEN UP THE BORDER AND DO AWAY WITH ICE.
[00:18:56] THEY ARE ON RECORD. THEY ARE ON RECORD FOR BEING FOR
[00:19:01] SOCIALISM AS OPPOSED TO CAPITALISM.
[00:19:04] THAT IS WHERE THAT PARTY IS GOING THROUGH THESE THINGS NOW.
[00:19:11] YOU DECIDE WHAT YOUR OPPONENT IS, IN THIS CASE, IT IS
[00:19:15] SOCIALISM AND THE LEFT, AND THERE'S A THOUSAND THINGS, MEN
[00:19:19] AND WOMEN'S BATHROOMS, MEN COMPETING AGAINST WOMEN, THERE
[00:19:23] ARE LOTS OF THINGS THAT PEOPLE BRING UP.
[00:19:25] GABBY: IT'S A TOUGH ENVIRONMENT, THOUGH.
[00:19:29] REP. SESSIONS: I HATE TO BE THIS WAY.
[00:19:33] I DON'T KNOW HAVE A GOOD CANDIDATE COULD LOSE.
[00:19:35] GABBY: THERE'S A QUESTION FOR
[00:19:38] YOU, BUT THESE REPUBLICANS ARE
[00:19:40] RUNNING IN A CYCLE WHERE YOU CAN TRY TO DEFINE YOUR OPPONENT, BUT
[00:19:44] IT'S GOING TO BE DIFFICULT ENVIRONMENT WITH GAS PRICES WHAT
[00:19:48] THEY ARE. WHAT IS YOUR PREDICTION FOR WHERE THE HOUSE IS GOING TO END
[00:19:52] UP?
[00:19:53] REP. SESSIONS: CLOSE.
[00:19:57] IT'S GOING TO BE CLOSE, AND IT WILL BE HARD, IN FAIRNESS I
[00:20:00] WOULD SAY THIS, AND MY FRIENDS
[00:20:03] THE DEMOCRATS KNOW THIS, IT WILL
[00:20:07] BE HARD FOR THEM TO MUSTER
[00:20:09] TOGETHER THINGS WHEN PEOPLE
[00:20:11] DECIDE THEY DON'T WANT TO RUN OR RUN FOR SOMETHING DIFFERENT AND
[00:20:15] THEN DON'T WANT TO GO VOTE.
[00:20:17] THIS IS HARD, AND SPEAKER PELOSI HAD TO GO THROUGH THIS.
[00:20:22] PEOPLE IN HER OWN PARTY DIDN'T
[00:20:26] WANT TO COME TO WASHINGTON
[00:20:27] DURING COVID AND WE HAD TO ALLOW
[00:20:33] THEM TO MAIL IN THEIR BALLOT IN
[00:20:35] ESSENCE ON EVERY VOTE. IT'S HARD.
[00:20:40] EASY WAS 10 YEARS AGO, IS NOT
[00:20:44] EASY ANYMORE, FOR EITHER SIDE.
[00:20:47] REP. FLETCHER: I'M GOING TO
[00:20:50] DISAGREE WITH YOU, THE COVID RESTRICTIONS PIECE, COVID WAS
[00:20:54] SOMETHING WE HAD AN EXPERIENCE AND IT TOOK A LITTLE BIT OF TIME, BUT NOT THAT LONG, ABOUT A
[00:20:58] MONTH TO FIGURE IT OUT. I WAS IN WASHINGTON, WE WERE ALL
[00:21:01] IN WASHINGTON, FLYING BACK-AND-FORTH.
[00:21:07] THE VOTES OPERATED A LITTLE DIFFERENTLY AND THEY HAD PROXY VOTING FOR PEOPLE WHO HAD COVID
[00:21:11] OR COULDN'T TRAVEL, BUT MANY OF US WERE THERE THE WHOLE TIME.
[00:21:15] AND ACTUALLY WHEN SPEAKER PELOSI
[00:21:19] WAS THE SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE IN PRESIDENT BIDEN WAS IN THE WHITE HOUSE, IT WAS ONE OF THE MOST
[00:21:22] PRODUCTIVE CONGRESS IS IN HISTORY.
[00:21:25] PASI INFRASTRUCTURE INVESTMENT AND JOBS ACT WHICH WAS A
[00:21:29] BIPARTISAN BILL.
[00:21:31] WE PASS INFLATION REDUCTION ACT. IT WOULD THE CHIPS AND SCIENCE
[00:21:35] ACT. REP. SESSIONS: I WAS NOT TALKING
[00:21:38] ABOUT THE OUTCOMES, WAS TALKING ABOUT THE DIFFICULTIES OF GETTING YOUR PEOPLE THERE AND GETTING THE BOATS.
[00:21:42] REP. FLETCHER: I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.
[00:21:47] THE NARROW MAJORITIES IS HARD, BUT ONE OF THE PROBLEMS THAT WE
[00:21:50] SEE, AND IT'S REALLY A PROBLEM WITH OUR BROKEN POLITICS THAT
[00:21:53] WHEN YOU HAVE A NARROW MAJORITY,
[00:21:56] YOU HAVE A FEW PEOPLE WHO CAN STOP EVERYTHING.
[00:21:59] REP. SESSIONS: THAT'S WHERE SOMEBODY IS GOING TO BE YOUR.
[00:22:03] REP. FLETCHER: THAT DID NOT
[00:22:06] HAPPEN ON OUR SIDE OF THE AISLE.
[00:22:08] GABBY:? ? HOW BIG IS THE MAJORITY REP.
[00:22:12] FLETCHER: ONE OF THE THINGS WE
[00:22:15] HAVE GOT TO FIX IS THAT THERE AREN'T VERY MANY COMPETITIVE RACES IN THE COUNTRY.
[00:22:19] THE REASON PETE CAN SAY THAT IT
[00:22:22] IS STILL GOING TO BE CLOSE IS BECAUSE THERE ARE A WHOLE LOT OF
[00:22:25] RACES WHERE WE ALREADY KNOW THAT A DEMOCRAT OR A REPUBLICAN IS
[00:22:29] GOING TO WIN THE RACE, AND BECAUSE PEOPLE ACROSS THE
[00:22:32] COUNTRY, AND THIS TIME STARTING IN TEXAS, REDREW THE
[00:22:36] CONGRESSIONAL MAPS TO MAKE THEM LESS COMPETITIVE. [APPLAUSE]
[00:22:45] THAT'S NOT RIGHT.
[00:22:48] PEOPLE WANT TO BE ABLE TO VOTE
[00:22:51] AND HAVE THEIR VOTE COUNT AND HAVE IT MATTER THAT THEY GO TO THE POLLS.
[00:22:54] LET ME BE CLEAR, IT MATTERS.
[00:22:57] IF YOU LIVE IN HARRIS COUNTY,
[00:22:59] YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE 103-105
[00:23:02] RACES ON YOUR BALLOT, DEPENDING ON WHICH PRECINCT YOU LIVE IN.
[00:23:05] THERE ARE SOME THINGS ON THE BALLOT THAT WE CARE ABOUT AT
[00:23:08] EVERY LEVEL OF GOVERNMENT RIGHT NOW. SO IT IS CRITICAL. BUT EFFORTS LIKE THIS ARE
[00:23:13] ANTI-DEMOCRATIC THE CAPITAL D
[00:23:15] BUT WITH A LITTLE D TOO.
[00:23:20] WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH PARTISAN GERRYMANDERING IN TEXAS AND BEYOND.
[00:23:23] IN MY FIRST TERM, WE HAD A CALL
[00:23:26] TO HAVE NONPARTISAN
[00:23:30] REDISTRICTING COMMISSIONS IN EVERY STATE. THAT WAS PART OF THAT BILL. WE PASSED IT IN-HOUSE.
[00:23:35] THE SYSTEM IS PERFECT, BUT WHAT WE KNOW IS THAT THIS SYSTEM
[00:23:38] WHERE WE HAVE PARTISANS DRAWING THE MAPS TO MAXIMIZE THEIR OWN ADVANTAGE DOES NOT SERVE THE
[00:23:43] PEOPLE AND IT IS SOMETHING THAT WE ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO CHANGE.
[00:23:46] AND THEN WE WILL HAVE COMPETITIVE ELECTIONS WHERE WE
[00:23:50] DON'T KNOW GOING IN AND WHERE EVERYONE HAS TO TALK TO EVERYBODY.
[00:23:54] AND OUR BRAND IN 2018, I WAS CHALLENGING A REPUBLICAN
[00:23:58] INCUMBENT WHO HAD BEEN THERE FOR 18 YEARS AND SEAT THAT HAD BEEN
[00:24:01] REPUBLICAN FOR HIM -- FOR 50 YEARS.
[00:24:04] I KNEW IF I WANTED TO WIN, I NEED TO TALK TO EVERY SINGLE PERSON AND ASKED THEM FOR THEIR VOTE.
[00:24:09] THAT SHOULD BE TRUE OF EVERY ELECTED REPRESENTATIVE IN EVERY
[00:24:12] ELECTION, EVERY TIME. [APPLAUSE]
[00:24:14] REP. SESSIONS: I HAVE BEEN A
[00:24:18] PART OF THAT IN A 50-50 DISTRICT. MARTIN FROST AND I RAN AGAINST
[00:24:21] EACH OTHER.
[00:24:23] BY THE WAY, I ENJOYED IT.
[00:24:28] REP. MENEFEE: I WOULD FULLY
[00:24:31] SUPPORT RULES THAT REQUIRE YOU
[00:24:35] DRAWS MANY 50-50 DISTRICTS AS
[00:24:36] POSSIBLE IN STATES, SOMETHING I'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT FOR YEARS.
[00:24:42] MY OPPONENT IS VERY SIMPLE, IT
[00:24:46] IS DONALD TRUMP. HE IS ABOUT PRESIDENT. [APPLAUSE]
[00:24:52] AND AT THIS POINT IT SHOULD BE IRREFUTABLE.
[00:24:56] IF YOU WANT SOMEONE IS GOING TO COME IN AND DECREASE THE DEFICIT, HE'S NOT DOING THAT.
[00:25:00] IF YOU WANT SOMEONE IS GOING TO COME IN AND NOT START FOREIGN WARS, HE'S NOT DOING THAT.
[00:25:05] IF YOU WANT SOMEONE WHO'S GOING TO COME IN AND MAKE IT EASIER FOR PEOPLE TO GET INTO HOMES OR
[00:25:09] INCREASE THE SUPPLY OF HOUSING, NOT ONLY IS HE NOT DOING THAT,
[00:25:14] BUT WE PASSED THE SENATE BILL
[00:25:17] AND HE WERE FOR -- REFUSED TO
[00:25:20] SIGN IT BECAUSE HE WAS UPSET ABOUT THE SAVE AMERICA ACT OR
[00:25:24] SOME SUCH NONSENSE. FOR PEOPLE OUTSIDE AMERICA WHO
[00:25:27] DON'T LIVE AND BREATHE THIS STUFF ON A DAILY BASIS, THE
[00:25:31] PRESIDENT DOES NOT CARE ABOUT AVERAGES.
[00:25:32] HE CARE SHE HAS IS AGENDAS AND
[00:25:36] MOOD SWINGS AND ASK ACCORDING TO THAT. ON ANY GIVEN DAY, YOU HAVE NO
[00:25:39] CLUE WHAT IS GOING TO DO.
[00:25:41] I WAS ASKED WE TAKE THAT HOUSE BACK, IF WE TAKE THE SENATE AS
[00:25:46] WELL IS A PRESIDENT JUST GOING TO VETO A LOT OF OUR BILLS ON A WHIM?
[00:25:51] THE ONLY REASONABLE ANSWER IS, I DON'T KNOW.
[00:25:55] BECAUSE NOBODY UNDERSTANDS DONALD TRUMP. HE DOESN'T EVEN UNDERSTAND HIMSELF.
[00:25:59] HE WAKES UP IN THE MORNING AND WHATEVER MOOD HE IS IN THAT DAY,
[00:26:02] HE ACTS ON THAT. I HAD FAMILY MEMBERS WHO VOTED
[00:26:06] FOR BUSH TWICE AND THOSE WHO
[00:26:08] VOTED REPUBLICAN DOWN BALLOT.
[00:26:11] ALL OF THEM ARE SAYING THE SAME THING, TRUMP IS A BAD PRESIDENT.
[00:26:16] [APPLAUSE] REP. SESSIONS: YOU ARE ENTITLED
[00:26:20] TO HAVE THAT, BUT MORE PEOPLE VOTED FOR HIM LAST TIME THAN EVER.
[00:26:24] FOR PRESIDENT.
[00:26:27] AND HE HAS DONE A LOT OF THINGS.
[00:26:33] [LAUGHTER]
[00:26:35] REP. MENEFEE: AND I AGREE THAT
[00:26:38] HE'S DONE A LOT OF THINGS. HE'S DONE A LOT OF BAD THINGS, TOO, THOUGH, RIGHT?
[00:26:42] REP. SESSIONS: ALL I'M TRYING TO SAY IS, WE WILL FIND OUT.
[00:26:46] GABBY: IN NOVEMBER WE WILL FIND
[00:26:50] OUT EXACTLY WHERE THE COUNTRY FEELS ON THAT. RIGHT NOW WE HAVE SOME AUDIENCE
[00:26:54] QUESTIONS.
[00:27:06] >> GOOD MORNING, EVERYONE.
[00:27:09] I NAME IS COLLEEN, I REREAD
[00:27:13] REPORTER -- I AM A REPORTER AT
[00:27:14] THE HOUSTON TRIBUNE JIM EDDY
[00:27:18] FROM HOUSTON ASKED, AND HOUSTON AREA, ONLY 20% OF HIGH SCHOOL GRADUATES MAKE A LIVING WAGE,
[00:27:21] ACCORDING TO DATA FROM RICE
[00:27:26] UNIVERSITY'S BAKER INSTITUTE. HOW ARE YOU SUPPORTING FEDERAL
[00:27:29] POLICIES THAT HELP OUR PUBLIC SCHOOL DISTRICTS AND PUBLIC
[00:27:32] CHARTER SCHOOLS ALIGNMENTS TO PROGRAMS WITH HOUSTON'S GROWING
[00:27:36] INDUSTRY TO GUARANTEE STUDENTS A PATH TO COLLEGE OR HIGH-PAYING LOCAL CAREERS?
[00:27:40] REP. MENEFEE: TWO THINGS.
[00:27:44] ONE, AN INCREASE IN WORKFORCE DEVELOPMENT PROGRAMS. WE WENT THROUGH AN ENTIRE
[00:27:49] GENERATION ARE WE TOLD YOUNG PEOPLE THE WAY TO BE SUCCESSFUL
[00:27:51] IN THIS COUNTRY IS YOU HAVE TO GO TO COLLEGE.
[00:27:55] THAT DID WAS, HE CREATED A LOT OF LOW-LEVEL SO-CALLED
[00:27:58] WHITE-COLLAR JOBS WERE FOLKS WOULD GO. I HAVE A FRIEND WHO WENT TO
[00:28:03] COLLEGE, WAS AN ENGINEERING MAJOR, THEN SWITCH A BUSINESS
[00:28:06] MAJOR, COMMUNICATIONS MAJOR AND ENDED UP WITH THE GENERAL STUDIES DEGREE.
[00:28:10] WENT THROUGH FIVE OR SIX YEAR PERIOD AND WENT AND GOT A JOB
[00:28:14] THAT LIKELY COULD'VE BEEN GOTTEN STRAIGHT OUT OF HIGH SCHOOL.
[00:28:17] AT THE SAME TIME, WE HAVE AN EXTREME SHORTAGE IN THE NUMBER
[00:28:20] FOLKS DOING SKILLED LABOR WORK.
[00:28:23] I'M TALKING ABOUT MARINE LIFE,
[00:28:25] CONSTRUCTION, ELECTRICIANS, YOU CAN GO IN AND WORK FOR A GOOD
[00:28:29] NUMBER OF YEARS AND BUILD A GOOD LIFE FOR YOUR FAMILY.
[00:28:32] SO I HAVE A BILL THAT WOULD INCREASE PELL GRANT SO FOLKS CAN
[00:28:35] USE THAT MONEY FOR WORKFORCE DEVELOPMENT PROGRAMS.
[00:28:40] THE SECOND PIECE OF THIS IS, WE HAVE TO RAISE THE MINIMUM WAGE.
[00:28:45] [APPLAUSE]
[00:28:47] WHEN I WAS GOING ON, I WORKED AT
[00:28:51] A SMALL GROCERY STORE INSTEAD OF TEXAS CALLED HEB.
[00:28:54] AND I GOT HARD, I STARTED OFF WORKING IN THE PARKING LOT.
[00:28:58] I WAS IN 100 DEGREE HOUSTON
[00:29:02] WHETHER PUSHING SHOPPING CARTS. I'LL NEVER FORGET WHEN I GOT
[00:29:05] PROMOTED TO $7.25 AN HOUR, WHATEVER IT WAS. AND I WAS SO PROUD.
[00:29:10] THAT WAS 20 YEARS AGO. THAT IS STILL THE MINIMUM WAGE
[00:29:13] IN THIS COUNTRY. THAT MAKES ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE.
[00:29:17] IS NOT IN ANY WAY TRACKING ANY ILL METRIC OF HOW FOLKS ARE
[00:29:20] LIVING AND EXPERIENCING LIFE IN THIS COUNTRY.
[00:29:23] SO CONGRESS NEEDS TO BE SERIOUS ABOUT RAISING THE MINIMUM WAGE.
[00:29:28] ANYONE WHO BELIEVES AN ADULT
[00:29:29] WORKING 40 HOURS A WEEK SHOULD
[00:29:33] BE MAKING $7.25 AN HOUR --
[00:29:35] REP. SESSIONS: LET ME PUT IT TO
[00:29:39] YOU THIS WAY. WHAT DOES HEB PAY TODAY?
[00:29:44] IT'S NOT $7.25 AN HOUR.
[00:29:47] REP. MENEFEE: BUT THERE ARE
[00:29:50] EMPLOYERS OUT THERE WHO DO. REP. SESSIONS: THAT IS A MISNOMER.
[00:29:54] REP. MENEFEE: SO YOU ARE SAYING
[00:29:57] THERE IS NOBODY IN THIS COUNTRY WHO MAKES $7.25 AN HOUR?
[00:30:00] REP. SESSIONS: I DIDN'T SAY THAT.
[00:30:04] WHAT I'M SAYING IS FEW JOBS PAY THAT. YOU CAN GO AND WORK AT
[00:30:09] MCDONALD'S, AND YOU GET FULL BENEFITS, YOU GET MONEY, AND
[00:30:13] THERE ARE LOTS OF JOBS AVAILABLE .
[00:30:15] GABBY: LET'S GO TO THE NEXT QUESTION.
[00:30:19] >> INCREASING FEDERAL FUNDING
[00:30:22] FOR MEDICAL RESEARCH AND PREVENTION IS CRITICAL TO
[00:30:27] PROMOTING FURTHER DISCOVERY AND SAVING LIVES.
[00:30:30] WILL YOU SUPPORT ANNUAL INCREASES IN CANCER RESEARCH FUNDING FOR THE NATIONAL
[00:30:34] INSTITUTES OF HEALTH, NATIONAL
[00:30:37] CANCER PREVENTION AND CONTROL PROGRAMS?
[00:30:42] REP. FLETCHER: I'M HAPPY TO START ON THAT.
[00:30:46] I HAVE ALWAYS COME IN EVERY
[00:30:48] CONGRESS THAT HAVE SERVED IN,
[00:30:51] ADVOCATED FOR NIH, FOR CANCER
[00:30:55] RESEARCH, FOR CDC, FOR PUBLIC
[00:30:57] HEALTH INITIATIVES. IT'S ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL.
[00:31:00] WE HAVE SEEN THAT DURING THE TIME I'VE BEEN IN CONGRESS HOW IMPORTANT IT IS TO INVEST IN
[00:31:04] PUBLIC HEALTH AND TO INVEST IN RESEARCH.
[00:31:08] I HAVE THE PRIVILEGE, ALONG WITH CHRISTIAN, WE SHARE THE TEXAS
[00:31:12] MEDICAL CENTER AND I REPRESENT SO MANY PEOPLE WHO WORK THERE.
[00:31:14] THEY ARE FEELING THE CHAOS THAT
[00:31:19] HAS BEEN CREATED IN THIS
[00:31:19] ADMINISTRATION FROM THE SLASHING
[00:31:25] OF RESEARCH FUNDING AT NIH, STOPPING CANCER TRIALS THAT ARE
[00:31:30] MID-TRIAL, CREATING ALL THIS UNCERTAINTY, AND PROBABLY EVERYBODY IN THIS ROOM KNOWS,
[00:31:33] BUT THEY ARE TRYING -- THIS
[00:31:37] ADMINISTRATION IS TRYING TO CENTRALIZE THE DECISION-MAKING
[00:31:40] ABOUT ALL OF THIS RESEARCH IN THE WHITE HOUSE THROUGH THE
[00:31:44] OFFICE OF MANAGEMENT AND BUDGET
[00:31:45] AND TO MAKE THESE GRANTS
[00:31:48] POLITICAL DECISIONS. SO I THINK IT IS CRITICAL NOT
[00:31:52] ONLY THAT WE FULLY FUND NIH, BUT
[00:31:55] THAT WE PROTECT THE SCIENTIFIC
[00:31:59] INTEGRITY AND RESEARCH AND RESEARCHERS FROM POLITICAL INTERFERENCE, WHICH IS DRIVING
[00:32:03] EVERY SINGLE DECISION THAT THIS
[00:32:05] ADMINISTRATION IS MAKING, TO THE DETRIMENT OF ALL AMERICANS.
[00:32:10] I WILL JUST SAY THIS BRIEFLY,
[00:32:11] WHEN WE TALK ABOUT HOW WE ARE
[00:32:14] SPENDING OUR MONEY, WE ARE
[00:32:16] PAYING TAXES, PULLING OUR RESOURCES AND MAKING INVESTMENTS.
[00:32:21] THE INVESTMENTS AT NIH AND PUBLIC HEALTH ARE SOME OF THE
[00:32:25] MOST IMPORTANT INVESTMENTS WE CAN AND HAVE MADE AND I WILL CONTINUE TO ADVOCATE AND FIGHT
[00:32:28] FOR FULL FUNDING BUT ALSO PROTECTIONS FOR THAT RESEARCH
[00:32:31] AND THE PEOPLE DOING IT THAT ARE CURRENTLY UNDER ATTACK FROM THIS
[00:32:34] ADMINISTRATION. REP. SESSIONS: I WILL SIMPLY
[00:32:38] RESPOND BACK TO YOU, AND FRANCIS
[00:32:45] COLLINS IS ONE OF MY BEST FRIENDS, BUT THEY BECAME ENGAGED
[00:32:48] IN SOMETHING THAT LED TO THE
[00:32:49] DEATH OF MILLIONS OF PEOPLE --
[00:32:58] DO WE BLAME IT ON THE GOVERNOR OF NEW YORK?
[00:33:01] HE WAS FOLLOWING THE INSTRUCTIONS THAT CAME FROM THE SAME GOD AND SET MY SON WHEN HE
[00:33:04] WAS IN HIS RESIDENCY PROGRAM
[00:33:09] GOT. THEY'RE TELLING US TO PUSH IT INTO THE LUNGS NEEDS TO COME OUT
[00:33:13] OF THE LUNGS, AND THIS WAS
[00:33:15] EXACTLY WHAT WAS HAPPENING FROM
[00:33:19] TONY FAUCI.
[00:33:22] I'M SIMPLY SAYING MY THINK THERE'S GOT TO BE SOME BIT OF
[00:33:25] BALANCE HERE ABOUT AN OPPORTUNITY TO UNDERSTAND
[00:33:29] FUNDING, WHO IS GAINING, WHAT
[00:33:32] THEY ARE INVESTING IN, AND WHAT THEY'RE DOING, AND HOW THIS
[00:33:35] WHOLE PROCESS WENT FORWARD.
[00:33:39] I THINK SOME EVALUATION, AND I DON'T AGREE WITH EVERYTHING THEY ARE DOING, BUT WHAT I'M SAYING
[00:33:43] IS, THERE'S GOT TO BE THIS
[00:33:46] EVALUATION, AND THE SENATE HAS BEEN TRYING TO GET ANSWERS A LONG TIME.
[00:33:50] PEOPLE SHOW UP AND WON'T EVEN -- WHAT DID YOU EAT FOR BREAKFAST?
[00:33:56] ON ADVICE OF COUNSEL, I WON'T ANSWER. THIS IS NOT MOVING PUBLIC POLICY FORWARD.
[00:34:00] LET'S FIND OUT WHAT ACTUALLY
[00:34:03] THIS IS AND WHAT IS IN OUR BEST INTEREST, AND INPUT SOME
[00:34:06] PARAMETERS ABOUT WHO AT IN IH? IS MAKING THESE DECISIONS?
[00:34:12] BECAUSE MEDICAL DOCTORS NEED TO BE TRUSTED, AND THAT IS A
[00:34:17] QUESTION MARK TODAY. SO THERE IS A BALANCE ONCE
[00:34:20] AGAIN, IS JUST NOT A MATTER OF RIGHT OR WRONG. THERE HAS TO BE A BALANCE.
[00:34:23] REP. MENEFEE: I COMPLETELYSHOULT
[00:34:27] AUTHORITY. AND THAT IS NOT WHAT HAPPENED HERE.
[00:34:31] THE PRESIDENT UNILATERALLY CUT THESE FUNDS WITHOUT ANY
[00:34:34] MEANINGFUL INVESTIGATION, CONVERSATION, DISCUSSION WITH CONGRESS.
[00:34:39] HE CUT THE FUNDS. WHAT I FIND SO ABHORRENT ABOUT
[00:34:42] THIS, I GREW UP IN MD ANDERSON.
[00:34:46] MY BROTHER WAS A CHILDHOOD CANCER SURVIVOR.
[00:34:49] I WAS IN THE PEDIATRIC WING WHEN MY BROTHER WAS GETTING RADIATION
[00:34:54] COMING CHEMO. THAT PLACE SAVES LIVES. WHEN THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED
[00:34:58] STATES UNILATERALLY CANCELED THOSE GRANTS COME YOU DIDN'T SEE A SINGLE REPUBLICAN STEP UP AND SAY SOMETHING.
[00:35:03] THAT IS WHAT IS DIFFERENT ABOUT DONALD TRUMP DAN JOE BIDEN,
[00:35:07] BARACK OBAMA, ANYBODY ELSE. HE HAS CAPTURED THAT PARTY COMPLETELY.
[00:35:11] WHEN HE SAYS JUMP, MOST OF THE
[00:35:13] POLITICIANS SAY, HOW HIGH.
[00:35:23] IT BARACK OBAMA WOULD HAVE CUT FUNDING FOR MEDICAL RESEARCH IN A DISTRICT I REPRESENTED, I WOULD HAVE BEEN SCREAMING FROM THE ROOFTOPS, I DO NOT AGREE WITH BARACK OBAMA.
[00:35:27] IT BARACK OBAMA TOLD MY GOVERNMENT TO SLICE AND DICE THE MAPS IN MY STATE TO STRIP
[00:35:31] COMMUNITIES OF THE REPRESENTATION, I WOULD'VE TOLD HIM TO POUND SAND.
[00:35:34] WE SHOULD NOT BE BEHOLDEN TO A SINGLE LEADER THAT IS THE LEADER
[00:35:38] OF A PARTY. WE SHOULD BE BEHOLDEN TO THE PEOPLE THAT WE SERVE BUT
[00:35:41] UNFORTUNATELY WE ARE NOT SEEING IT THAT WAY. GABBY: TIME FOR ONE MORE QUESTION.
[00:35:45] >> THIS NEXT QUESTION FOLLOWS UP
[00:35:49] ON YOUR CONVERSATION ABOUT AI AND DATA CENTERS, AND CHRIS FROM
[00:35:53] HOUSTON WANT TO PRESS HARDER ON HOW THIS TRANSFERS TO DIPLOMACY.
[00:35:56] HE ASKED, YOU ALL MENTION HOW YOU ARE REACTING TO CHANGES SUCH
[00:36:00] AS DATA CENTERS AND AI.
[00:36:03] DO YOU FEEL CONGRESS IS ACTING TOO SLOW TO THESE RAPIDLY GROWING INDUSTRIES?
[00:36:08] SHOULD CONGRESS ACT PROACTIVELY TO THESE ISSUES?
[00:36:11] REP. SESSIONS: I BELIEVE WE
[00:36:15] SHOULD. I THINK WE ALL THREE OF US AGREE THAT THERE OUGHT TO BE AN
[00:36:19] OPPORTUNITY IN A PUBLIC SETTING
[00:36:21] TO ASK PEOPLE, WHAT DO YOU THINK?
[00:36:27] I THINK THEY KNOW THE POWER OF THESE FAR MORE THAN WE DO,
[00:36:31] CERTAINLY THE ANTHROPIC QUESTION
[00:36:34] THAT CAME OUT SEVERAL WEEKS AGO DIDN'T JUST DEVELOP ITSELF IN MY EYES.
[00:36:38] WE HAVE KNOWN THIS. BUT WE DON'T KNOW HOW THEY ARE
[00:36:43] PROGRAMMING OR THE FULL CAPABILITY AND CAPACITIES, WE
[00:36:46] NEED TO ASK THEM, WHAT DO YOU THINK IS CORRECT?
[00:36:50] THEN THE AMERICAN PUBLIC WILL HAVE A CHANCE TO THEN DEAL WITH THAT.
[00:36:55] AS HAS BEEN SAID HERE A LOT,
[00:36:57] THERE ARE LOTS OF SMART PEOPLE OUT THERE WHO HAVE GREATER
[00:37:01] INSIGHT AND KNOWLEDGE THAN WE DO.
[00:37:03] WE OUGHT TO ASK PUBLICLY, WHAT
[00:37:05] ARE THE PARAMETERS, WHAT ARE THE THINGS THAT WE SHOULD KNOW?
[00:37:10] I THINK WE SHOULD COME UP WITH, WHETHER IT IS A LAW OR
[00:37:13] UNDERSTANDING, HERE IS WHERE WE THINK THAT LINE GOES.
[00:37:17] I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT FOR US TO DO THAT BEFORE IT GETS OUT TOO FAR, WHICH IS WHY REPUBLICANS
[00:37:23] SAID, LET'S HOLD OFF FOR 10 YEARS, WE CAN ALWAYS CHANGE THAT IN TWO.
[00:37:27] THAT IS NOT THE POINT.
[00:37:30] IT IS DEVELOPING SO RAPIDLY, WE
[00:37:32] HAVE TO CATCH UP, BUT WE HAVE TO ASK THEM WHAT THAT CATCH-UP IS.
[00:37:36] REP. MENEFEE: AGREE, AND I WILL
[00:37:40] SAY THE PERSON ON THIS EARTH MOST RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR NOT
[00:37:43] BEING REAL MOVEMENT IN
[00:37:45] REGULATING DATA CENTERS AND AI, THE REPUBLICAN MOST RESPONSIBLE
[00:37:49] IS NOT PETE SESSIONS, NOT SPEAKER JOHNSON, IT IS DONALD
[00:37:52] TRUMP, WHO HAS COME OUT AND
[00:37:54] SAID, WHY WOULD WE WANT TO BE LOCKED DOWN OPPORTUNITIES FOR DATA CENTERS?
[00:37:59] IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, YOU ARE STUPID.
[00:38:01] THIS IS THE PROBLEM, YOU HAVE
[00:38:04] ONE MAN AT THE HELM OF THAT PARTY PUTTING HIS THUMB ON THE
[00:38:08] CONVERSATION, AND IT DOESN'T ALLOW SENSIBLE PEOPLE WHO ARE
[00:38:11] REPUBLICANS TO BE ABLE TO PUSH FORWARD WITH GOOD POLICY. HE IS HOLDING IT HOSTAGE.
[00:38:16] HE IS THE SINGLE GREATEST CONTRIBUTOR TO US NOT HAVING A REAL CONVERSATION.
[00:38:19] REP. SESSIONS: YOU HAVE TO
[00:38:22] BALANCE WHAT YOU SAY BECAUSE HE DEAD AND DID SOMETHING THAT
[00:38:25] PERHAPS YOU SOMETHING AGREE WITH . HE SAID ALL OF THESE DATA
[00:38:28] CENTERS HAVE TO PAY FOR THEIR OWN ELECTRICITY OR THEIR USE OF POWER AND WATER.
[00:38:32] IS THAT IRRESPONSIBLE?
[00:38:35] >> TEXAS HAS ALREADY DONE THAT.
[00:38:38] HE DOESN'T GET TO DO THAT, ACTUALLY. THAT IS OUR JOB.
[00:38:44] BACK TO THE QUESTION ABOUT HIS CONGRESS MOVING TOO SLOW ON THIS?
[00:38:48] MY ANSWER IS YES. AS WE ARE CONCLUDING HERE, I
[00:38:52] WANT TO SAY, THAT IS YES ON A LOT OF THINGS.
[00:38:55] THAT IS A CHALLENGE THAT WE ALL FACE.
[00:38:58] WE ARE MOVING TOO SLOWLY ON AI, DATA CENTERS, WE ARE TRYING TO
[00:39:02] GET THE INFORMATION RIGHT, BUT CONGRESS MOVES SLOWLY.
[00:39:06] DATA PRIVACY WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH. ALSO IF YOU LOOK AT A PROBLEM
[00:39:10] TEARING OUR COUNTRY APART RIGHT
[00:39:11] NOW, TALK ABOUT IMMIGRATION,
[00:39:15] TALK ABOUT THE FACT THAT PRESIDENT BUSH, WHEN HE WAS
[00:39:18] PRESIDENT, WAS TRYING TO GET COMPREHENSIVE IMMIGRATION REFORM
[00:39:21] MORE THAN A DECADE AGO.
[00:39:24] IT IS CONGRESS'S JOB TO DEAL WITH THESE VERY CHALLENGING ISSUES.
[00:39:29] CONGRESS KEEPS KICKING THE CAN DOWN THE ROAD. WE NEED TO FIX THAT.
[00:39:34] WE NEED TO SEND PEOPLE TO WASHINGTON WHO ARE WILLING TO DO
[00:39:36] THE WORK, WHO ARE WILLING TO FIND THE ANSWERS AND SPEND THE TIME AND DO THE WORK.
[00:39:41] WHAT WE ARE SEEING NOW, I COULDN'T AGREE WITH CHRISTIAN
[00:39:46] MORE, IT'S A COMPLETE DIFFERENCE TO THE WHITE HOUSE.
[00:40:13] I SAID EARLIER THAT I WAS IN THE MOST PRODUCTIVE --
[00:40:17] WHAT WE ARE SEEING.
[00:40:21] HE IS NOT DOING THE THINGS HE PROMISED TO DO, AND THAT IS WHY
[00:40:25] I THINK IN NOVEMBER WE WILL SEE A MAJOR CHANGE COMING TO THE
[00:40:28] HOUSE, COMING TO THE STATE OF TEXAS, AND I AM ALL HERE FOR IT. [APPLAUSE]
[00:40:32] REP. SESSIONS: AND THAT, YOU
[00:40:37] MIGHT BE COME ABOUT LEGISLATIVELY, THIS SESSION THAT
[00:40:40] HE TALKED ABOUT, THEY DIDN'T PASS ANYTHING, SO JOE BIDEN
[00:40:44] SIMPLY OPEN UP THE BORDER AND 13 MILLION PEOPLE CAME IN HERE.
[00:40:48] THAT WENT AGAINST THE LAWS OF THIS COUNTRY, TOO.
[00:40:52] THAT IS THE TRUTH.
[00:40:54] REP. FLETCHER: LEGISLATIVELY,
[00:40:58] THERE HAS NOT BEEN COPPERHEADS OF IMMIGRATION. REP. SESSIONS: IT WAS HARD FOR
[00:41:02] YOU GUYS. REP. FLETCHER: WE PASSED BILLS
[00:41:06] IN THE HOUSE OF THE SENATE DIDN'T PASS, GETTING BACK TO THE SENATE ISSUE.
[00:41:09] WE PASSED A LOT OF GOOD BILLS IN THE HOUSE OF DIDN'T MAKE IT
[00:41:12] THROUGH SENATE, BUT THAT CONGRESS WAS PRODUCTIVE, WE GOT THINGS DONE.
[00:41:17] I AGREE WITH YOU, CONGRESS DIDN'T GET IT DONE, AND OUR
[00:41:20] COMMUNITIES ARE PAYING THE PRICE RIGHT NOW WITH IMMIGRATION ENFORCEMENT THAT IS OUT OF
[00:41:24] CONTROL, KILLING PEOPLE IN THE STREETS IN AUSTIN, HOUSTON, MINNEAPOLIS, MAINE.
[00:41:30] IT IS OUT OF CONTROL, AND IT'S COMING FROM THE WHITE HOUSE, AND
[00:41:33] IT HAS TO BE STOPPED. AND CONGRESS HAS TO DO IT.
[00:41:35] GABBY: AS YOU CAN SEE, WE HAVE
[00:41:39] AIR IS A PROFOUND DISAGREEMENT BUT I HOPE YOU ALSO HURT TODAY
[00:41:43] AREAS OF OVERLAP AND INTEREST IN CONGRESS TODAY.
[00:41:45] I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU CAN GET TO YOUR NEXT SESSIONS.
[00:41:49] THANK YOU TO THE MEMBERS HERE FOR PARTICIPATING. THANK YOU. [APPLAUSE]
[00:41:54] [CAPTIONS COPYRIGHT NATIONAL CABLE SATELLITE CORP. 2026] [CAPTIONING PERFORMED BY THE NATIONAL CAPTIONING INSTITUTE,
[00:41:57] WHICH IS RESPONSIBLE FOR ITS CAPTION CONTENT AND ACCURACY. VISIT NCICAP.ORG]
[00:42:03] >> YOU ARE WATCHING CSPAN3,
[00:42:08] DEMOCRACY UNFILTERED.
[00:42:12] >> YOU LOOK BACK ON WHAT YOU'VE
[00:42:15] ACHIEVED IN YOUR LIFE, WHAT MAKES YOU THE HAPPIEST OF WHAT YOU'VE ACHIEVED SO FAR?
[00:42:19] >> THIS INTERVIEW IS THE ABSOLUTE APEX.
[00:42:21] >> LEADERS LIKE TO WEAR WIGS.
[00:42:25] HOW COME HE DIDN'T HAVE A WIG?
[00:42:28] PRESIDENT TRUMP DIDN'T SAY, I SHOULD'VE GIVEN IT TO YOU FOR THE FIRST TIME.
[00:42:32] YOUR FIRST BOOK WAS CALLED "A TIME TO KILL." HOW MANY PUBLISHERS TURN THAT DOWN?
[00:42:36] >> ALL OF THEM.
[00:42:39] >> WHEN YOU GO TO THE OSCARS
[00:42:43] COME EVERYONE SAYS, THERE IS THE AUTHOR.
[00:42:45] >> ALL THE BEAUTIFUL PEOPLE GO
[00:42:47] THIS WAY, THAN THEY HAVE ANOTHER PATH WHERE ALL OF THE OTHER
[00:42:51] PEOPLE LIKE ME GO TO. >> I INTERVIEWED A GUY WHO LIVED
[00:42:55] WITH WOLVES. >> IS IT SAFE TO DO THAT?
[00:42:58] >> ABSOLUTELY NOT.
[00:43:00] >> YOU ARE OPINIONATED ABOUT THE
[00:43:05] SITUATION, WHICH IS WHY WE LOVE YOU, DAVID.
[00:43:10] >> WATCH EVERY MOMENT OF THE
[00:43:15] MIDTERM ELECTIONS LIVE TUESDAY, NOVEMBER THIRD, STARTING AT 4:00
[00:43:19] EASTERN, WITH LIVE COVERAGE OF REAL-TIME RESULTS AND POLITICAL
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[00:43:26] >> READY, SET, BUT IT THE
[00:43:31] BRIGHTEST YOUNG CIVIC MINES IN AMERICA ARE COMING TO WASHINGTON, D.C.
[00:43:35] 52 STUDENTS, 50 STATES, WASHINGTON, D.C., AND AMERICAN SAMOA.
[00:43:40] THEY ARE READY TO GO HEAD TO HEAD FOR THE TITLE AND $100,000.
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[00:43:52] EASTERN ON C-SPAN, C-SPAN.ORG, AND YOUTUBE.
[00:43:56] >> AUTHOR IBRAM KENDI SPOKE AT
[00:44:02] THE TEXAS TRIBUNE FESTIVAL IN AUSTIN ABOUT THE GREAT REPLACEMENT THEORY AND ITS
[00:44:05] CONNECTION TO CURRENT POLITICS. THE GREAT REPLACEMENT IS A
[00:44:08] DEFUNCT CONSPIRACY THEORY THAT CLAIMS DEMOGRAPHIC CHANGES IN
[00:44:12] WESTERN COUNTRIES ARE DELIBERATELY ENGINEERED TO REPLACE THE WHITE POPULATION
[00:44:15] WITH IMMIGRANTS OR OTHER ETHNIC GROUPS. IBRAM KENDI IS THE AUTHOR OF NEW
[00:44:19] BOOK, "CHAINS OF IDEAS: THE ORIGINS OF OUR AUTHORITARIAN AGE ."
[00:44:24] >> GOOD AFTERNOON.
[00:44:29] MY NAME IS PINEAL JOSEPH. IT'S AN HONOR TO BE IN
[00:44:32] CONVERSATION WITH DR. IBRAM
[00:44:35] KENDI, A WELL-KNOWN SCHOLAR OF
[00:44:39] RACE, DEMOCRACY IN THE UNITED
[00:44:45] STATES AND GLOBALLY.
[00:44:49] WE WILL BE IN CONVERSATION ABOUT A REALLY IMPORTANT NEW BOOK CALLED "CHAINS OF IDEAS: THE
[00:44:52] ORIGINS OF OUR AUTHORITARIAN AGE ."
[00:45:00] IBRAM, VERY GOOD TO BE IN CONVERSATION WITH YOU.
[00:45:06] IBRAM: GOOD TO BE IN CONVERSATION WITH YOU, DR. JOSEPH.
[00:45:08] PENIEL: I ENJOYED THE BOOK, A
[00:45:13] TRULY GLOBAL LOOK AT AUTHORITARIANISM. THE FIRST QUESTION I HAVE FOR
[00:45:16] YOU IS -- AND YOU DEFINED IT IN
[00:45:19] THE BOOK -- BUT WHAT IS THE GREAT REPLACEMENT THEORY?
[00:45:26] THERE HAS BEEN SO MUCH
[00:45:26] DISCUSSION ABOUT THAT ESPECIALLY
[00:45:30] OVER THE LAST DECADE, ESPECIALLY
[00:45:35] SINCE CHARLOTTESVILLE IN 2017. YOU TALK ABOUT THE WAY IN WHICH
[00:45:38] CONSERVATIVE NEWS COMMENTATORS,
[00:45:42] EVERYONE FROM FOX NEWS TO
[00:45:43] INDEPENDENT PODCASTERS, USE THIS
[00:45:47] TERM, GREAT REPLACEMENT THEORY, BUT YOU ALSO GIVE US THE GLOBAL
[00:45:49] CONTEXT.
[00:45:54] THERE IS A FRENCH WRITER, CAMU,
[00:45:59] WHO STARTS OUT AS SOMEONE ON THE
[00:46:00] LEFT, PROTESTED IN 1968, BUT BY THE TIME HE IS WRITING THIS
[00:46:06] TRAVELOGUE ABOUT FRANCE IN THE MID-1990'S, HE SEES DANGER
[00:46:11] EVERYWHERE, IMMIGRANTS, PEOPLE
[00:46:13] WHO ARE NOT FRENCH, OR AS FRENCH
[00:46:17] AS HE THINKS THEY SHOULD BE.
[00:46:20] HE REALLY HELPS ESPOUSE THIS GREAT REPLACEMENT THEORY.
[00:46:23] IBRAM: HE WRITES A BOOK THAT IS
[00:46:30] ENTITLED "THE GREAT REPLACEMENT"
[00:46:33] WHICH ULTIMATELY POSITIONS IN AS
[00:46:36] NAMING AN IDEA, THEORY THAT HAD
[00:46:40] LIVED, FRANKLY, FOR MORE THAN A CENTURY.
[00:46:45] THEORIES AND IDEAS ARE DIFFERENT
[00:46:49] LIKE HUMANS. WE ARE NAMED WHEN WE ARE BORN,
[00:46:52] BUT IDEAS CAN REMAIN FOR A LONG TIME BEFORE THEY ARE NAMED.
[00:46:56] CAMU ENDS UP NAMING WHAT WE CALLED THE GREAT REPLACEMENT
[00:46:59] THEORY IN 2011, BUT THIS IS A
[00:47:02] THEORY THAT I ENDED UP DEFINING
[00:47:06] IN A MUCH MORE EXPANSIVE SENSE
[00:47:10] THAN OTHER INTELLECTUALS HAD TO FIND IT. I ENDED UP DEFINING IT AS A
[00:47:14] POLITICAL CONSPIRACY THEORY THAT
[00:47:18] SUGGESTS THAT THERE ARE THESE GLOBALIST ELITES WHO ARE
[00:47:22] ENABLING BLACK AND BROWN PEOPLE
[00:47:26] TO DISPLACE THE LIVES,
[00:47:30] LIVELIHOODS, EVEN POWER OF WHITE
[00:47:34] PEOPLE WHO THEREBY NEED
[00:47:38] AUTHORITARIAN PROTECTION SO WHEN
[00:47:42] WE HEAR THINGS LIKE BLACK AND
[00:47:44] BROWN IMMIGRANTS ARE INVADERS,
[00:47:50] WE ARE HEARING GREAT REPLACEMENT THEORY.
[00:47:52] WHEN WE HEAR IDEAS LIKE, MUSLIMS
[00:47:56] ARE THE INTERNAL ENEMIES --
[00:48:00] ETERNAL ENEMIES, WE ARE HEARING GREAT REPLACEMENT THEORY.
[00:48:03] EVEN WHEN WE HEAR NOTIONS LIKE DIVERSITY PROGRAMS ARE A FORM OF
[00:48:06] DISCRIMINATION AGAINST WHITE
[00:48:08] PEOPLE, THAT IS ALSO AN ELEMENT OF GREAT REPLACEMENT THEORY.
[00:48:15] BECAUSE WHILE THE IDEA OF
[00:48:17] MUSLIMS AS THESE QUOTE ON QUOTE
[00:48:19] RADICAL ISLAMISTS WHO ARE COMING
[00:48:24] TO TAKE THE LIVES OF WHITE CHRISTIANS IS ABOUT TAKING
[00:48:28] LIVES, IT IS FRAMED AS IF QUOTE
[00:48:30] UNQUOTE DEI IS ABOUT TAKING,
[00:48:35] LET'S SAY, THE JOBS AND OPPORTUNITIES. THAT IS HOW I ENDED UP DEFINING
[00:48:39] IT.
[00:48:41] I SHOULD ALSO SAY, PENIEL, WHEN
[00:48:45] I STARTED OUT WITH "CHAINS OF
[00:48:46] IDEAS," I THOUGHT I WAS PURELY
[00:48:50] GOING TO WRITE ABOUT A RACIST POLITICAL CONSPIRACY THEORY.
[00:48:53] WHEN I DIDN'T REALIZE IS THAT THIS THEORY HAS MUTATED.
[00:48:58] IT IS NO LONGER JUST A RACIST
[00:49:04] POLITICAL CONSPIRACY THEORY, IT IS A SEXIST POLITICAL CONSPIRACY THEORY IN WHICH YOU HAVE THESE THEORIES CLAIMING THERE IS A WAR
[00:49:08] AGAINST THE MEN THAT WOMEN ARE WAGING.
[00:49:13] IT IS A TRANS PHOBIC CONSPIRACY
[00:49:17] THEORY IN WHICH OF THESE THEORISTS ARE CLAIMING THAT ALL
[00:49:20] 10 TRAM PEOPLE THAT PLAYED COLLEGE SPORTS HAVE COMPLETELY TAKEN OVER.
[00:49:27] IT IS OBVIOUSLY ISLAM A PHOBIC,
[00:49:30] CONSPIRACY THEORY IN WHICH
[00:49:34] THEORISTS ARE CLAIMING THAT
[00:49:35] MUSLIMS WORLDWIDE ARE COMING TO
[00:49:38] DESTROY WHAT THEY CALL JUDEO-CHRISTIAN CIVILIZATION.
[00:49:43] EVEN THE CONSTRUCT OF JUDEO-CHRISTIAN, FOR ANY
[00:49:47] HISTORIAN, IS AN INTERESTING
[00:49:49] CONCEPT, ONE OF COURSE JEWS HAVE
[00:49:53] HISTORICALLY BEEN PERSECUTED BY CHRISTIANS. BUT THIS IS NOT ABOUT HISTORY OR
[00:49:57] FACTS OR DATA, THIS IS ABOUT POLITICS AND PROPAGANDA.
[00:50:04] FRANKLY, WHEREVER THERE IS A DISADVANTAGED GROUP IN ANY
[00:50:07] NATION, WHETHER THEY ARE
[00:50:11] DISADVANTAGED BY RACE, GENDER,
[00:50:12] ETHNICITY, BY CLASS,
[00:50:15] BISEXUALITY, RELIGION, THEY ARE
[00:50:17] TYPICALLY BEING FRAMED AS TAKING OVER.
[00:50:23] AS TAKING OVER FROM THE MAJORITY GROUP OR THE PRIVILEGED GROUP.
[00:50:25] PENIEL: WHEN I WAS READING THIS
[00:50:28] BOOK, "CHAINS OF IDEAS," I
[00:50:32] THOUGHT IN A REALLY SIMPLE WAY, I WAS THINKING HOW COULD I TEACH
[00:50:35] THIS, IN TERMS OF GREAT REPLACEMENT, IT REMINDED ME OF
[00:50:38] LABOR HISTORY AND THE WAY IN
[00:50:40] WHICH THERE ARE SCABS IN LABOR HISTORY AND UNION MEMBERS.
[00:50:45] SCABS WHERE THE FOLKS WHO WERE NOT PART OF THE UNION WHO WERE
[00:50:48] BROUGHT IN TO BREAK THE UNION. THE UNION, YOU THINK OF AS THE
[00:50:52] GOOD FOLKS, THE SCABS, A LOT OF
[00:50:56] TIMES, AFRICAN-AMERICANS AND OTHERS WHO WERE NOT PART OF THE UNION BECAUSE THE UNION
[00:51:00] DISCRIMINATED. THE GREAT REPLACEMENT THEORY
[00:51:03] REALLY SETS UP THIS WORLD WHERE
[00:51:06] INDIGENOUS WHITES ARE THE UNION
[00:51:11] MEMBERS, THE CARD-CARRYING MEMBERS.
[00:51:12] THE SCABS ARE THESE HORDES OF
[00:51:17] PEOPLE OF COLOR.
[00:51:19] IT IS CONNECTED TO BREXIT, SO
[00:51:23] MANY DIFFERENT THINGS THAT YOU GO THROUGH IN THE BOOK. I'M EXCITED TO HAVE THE
[00:51:26] CONVERSATION. IBRAM: IF I COULD SAY VERY
[00:51:30] QUICKLY, THE BOOK IS ORGANIZED
[00:51:31] INTO 10 IDEAS THAT ARE ALMOST
[00:51:35] LIKE THE BUILDING BLOCKS FOR GREAT REPLACEMENT THEORY.
[00:51:38] ONE OF THOSE IDEAS IS WHITE
[00:51:42] CHRISTIANS ARE INDIGENOUS TO THE NATION. [LAUGHTER]
[00:51:48] I JUST CANNOT MAKE THIS STUFF UP, I'M JUST WRITING THE HISTORY.
[00:51:52] WHEN I SAY THAT, THESE GREAT
[00:51:56] REPLACEMENT THEORISTS ARE NOT
[00:51:58] JUST POSITIONING WHITE
[00:52:02] CHRISTIANS AS INDIGENOUS TO THE
[00:52:03] UNITED STATES, THEY ALSO
[00:52:07] POSITION WHITE CHRISTIANS AS
[00:52:07] INDIGENOUS TO CHILE, THEY
[00:52:12] POSITION THEM AS INDIGENOUS TO
[00:52:12] SOUTH AFRICA, THEY POSITION THEM
[00:52:16] AS INDIGENOUS TO AUSTRALIA.
[00:52:22] AND THE REASON WHY THAT ID IS PIVOTAL TO GREAT REPLACEMENT
[00:52:25] THEORY, THEN IT SAYS THAT ANY PERSON OF COLOR WHO IS IN THE
[00:52:30] NATION, EVEN IF THAT PERSON OF
[00:52:32] COLOR ARRIVED, THEIR ANCESTORS
[00:52:36] ARRIVED, LET'S SAY, BEFORE THE
[00:52:38] MAJORITY OF WHITE PEOPLE, EVEN THAT PERSON IS A REPLACEMENT.
[00:52:43] ALL PEOPLE OF COLOR ARE REPLACERS.
[00:52:46] ALL PEOPLE WHO DO NOT ACT AS CHRISTIANITY ARE REPLACERS.
[00:52:53] THAT DEMO ALLOWS THEM TO ARGUE WHAT ULTIMATELY BECOMES GREAT
[00:52:55] REPLACEMENT THEORY.
[00:53:00] AGAIN, I WAS SHOCKED.
[00:53:01] THESE PEOPLE ARE SERIOUS, THAT WHITE CHRISTIANS ARE INDIGENOUS
[00:53:05] TO SOUTH AFRICA.
[00:53:09] LITERALLY, THERE IS A POLITICIAN'S IN THE NETHERLANDS
[00:53:11] RIGHT NOW WHO IS PROBABLY THE
[00:53:15] MOST ISLAM A PHOBIC POLITICIAN IN ALL OF EUROPE.
[00:53:20] HIS RIGHT HAND MAN WROTE A BOOK,
[00:53:26] ARGUING THAT WHITE SOUTH AFRICANS ARE FACING A GENOCIDE.
[00:53:28] DOES THAT SOUND FAMILIAR?
[00:53:33] AND WHITE SOUTH AFRICANS ARE FACING DISCRIMINATION, AND THAT
[00:53:36] THIS IS UNJUST AND OPPRESSIVE, BECAUSE WHITE SOUTH AFRICANS,
[00:53:41] PARTICULARLY CHRISTIANS, ARE INDIGENOUS TO THE NATION.
[00:53:44] PENIEL: SO THE BOOK IS A TRULY
[00:53:47] GLOBAL HISTORY, POLITICAL POLICY
[00:53:51] ANALYSIS OF THE GREAT REPLACEMENT THEORY. WHY DID YOU CHOOSE A PARTICULAR COUNTRY?
[00:53:56] YOU LOOK AT THE UNITED STATES,
[00:53:58] CHILE, UNITED KINGDOM, GERMANY,
[00:54:02] HUNGARY, NETHERLANDS, FRANCE, EL
[00:54:05] SALVADOR, RUSSIA, AS INTERLOCKING COME INTERWEAVING
[00:54:08] CASE STUDIES THAT LET US EXAMINE THE GLOBAL PROBLEMS AND ISSUES AT STAKE.
[00:54:13] IBRAM: OK.
[00:54:18] THERE ARE A NUMBER OF FACTORS, I THINK, THAT WENT INTO WHY I
[00:54:21] CHOSE PARTICULAR COUNTRIES.
[00:54:22] "CHAINS OF IDEAS" IS ORGANIZED
[00:54:27] INTO 10 SECTIONS. EACH SECTION IS SET IN A DIFFERENT COUNTRY.
[00:54:31] THE U.S. STORY IS PRETTY MUCH WOVEN THROUGHOUT.
[00:54:37] IN THINKING ABOUT WHAT COUNTRY
[00:54:39] TO CHOOSE, AND IN WHAT ORDER, I WANTED TO ENSURE THAT I WAS
[00:54:43] CHOOSING COUNTRIES WHERE THERE WAS A PARTICULAR POLITICAL
[00:54:47] LEADER WHO WAS PRETTY PIVOTAL IN
[00:54:54] THE RESURGENCE OF GREAT REPLACEMENT THEORY, EITHER
[00:54:58] GLOBALLY, OR IN THEIR PARTICULAR REGION.
[00:55:00] TO GIVE AN EXAMPLE, ONE OF THE
[00:55:03] COUNTRIES THAT I CHOSE WAS EL SALVADOR.
[00:55:08] EL SALVADOR AND PRESIDENT
[00:55:10] BUKELE, HIS BRAND OF GREAT REPLACEMENT THEORY, WHICH IS
[00:55:15] DISTINCT FROM THE BRAND OF GREAT REPLACEMENT. THAT IS OPERATING, LET'S SAY, IN
[00:55:19] THE GLOBAL NORTH.
[00:55:22] HE HAS INSPIRED OTHER LATIN AMERICAN POLITICIANS TO RUN ON THAT SAME BRAND THROUGHOUT LATIN
[00:55:26] AMERICA, AS AN EXAMPLE. PENIEL: WHAT MAKES IS SO
[00:55:31] DISTINCT -- HIS SO DISTINCT?
[00:55:35] IBRAM: ANYONE FAMILIAR WITH, IN
[00:55:41] THIS COUNTRY, CLAIMS THAT
[00:55:44] IMMIGRANT FROM EL SALVADOR ARE ANIMALS AND RAPISTS? ANYONE HEARD THAT?
[00:55:49] ULTIMATELY, THE IDEA THAT SOMEONE WHO IS SALVADOR IS
[00:55:52] ESSENTIALLY A CRIMINAL.
[00:55:56] WHAT IS ALSO BEING SAID IN THIS
[00:55:58] COUNTRY IS THAT THERE IS THIS
[00:56:01] ORGANIZED BODY OF PEOPLE WHO ARE
[00:56:04] ESSENTIALLY FACILITATING THESE
[00:56:07] CRIMINALS BEING PUSHED OUT OF
[00:56:11] PRISONS AND ESSENTIALLY SENT TO THE UNITED STATES AND INVADING.
[00:56:14] ANYONE HEARD THAT, AS WELL?
[00:56:18] SO LET'S SAY THAT IS THE POLITICS IN THE UNITED STATES.
[00:56:22] LET'S SAY, IF YOU WERE A
[00:56:23] POLITICIAN IN EL SALVADOR, THEY
[00:56:26] ARE CLAIMING THAT SALVADOR
[00:56:31] EANS ARE CRIMINALS. YOU CAN USE THAT TOO.
[00:56:36] THERE IS THIS HUGE GANG PROBLEM IN EL SALVADOR.
[00:56:42] THESE PEOPLE ARE FUNDAMENTALLY EVIL, AND THEY ARE COMING TO
[00:56:45] TAKE OVER AND DESTROY THE GOOD PEOPLE.
[00:56:50] AND IN ORDER FOR US TO PROTECT YOU FROM THESE PEOPLE GANG
[00:56:56] HORDES, I NEED TO ESSENTIALLY CREATE THE LARGEST PRISON SYSTEM IN THE WORLD.
[00:57:01] I NEED TO START ROUNDING UP PEOPLE BY THE HUNDREDS OF
[00:57:06] THOUSANDS AND THROWING THEM IN PRISONS. I NEED TO DO AWAY WITH DEMOCRACY.
[00:57:11] I NEED TO DO AWAY WITH CIVIL
[00:57:13] LIBERTIES IN THE NAME OF PROTECTING THE VERY PEOPLE THAT I'M CLAIMING.
[00:57:17] IN OUR COUNTRY, THE IMMIGRANT IS
[00:57:22] POSITIONED, OR THE MUSLIM, OR THE BLACK PERSON IS POSITIONED
[00:57:26] AS THE REPLACER IN WHICH YOU
[00:57:29] NEED AN AUTHORITARIAN TO PROTECT YOURSELF AGAINST.
[00:57:32] IN EL SALVADOR, IT IS THE GANGS, THE CRIMINALS.
[00:57:36] WE KNOW THAT BECAUSE, FOR SEVERAL DECADES, IN THE UNITED
[00:57:40] STATES, IT INDEED WAS THE
[00:57:42] CRIMINAL, THAT PARTICULAR
[00:57:45] POLITICAL PARTIES USED TO GALVANIZE SUPPORT FOR THEIR
[00:57:48] PROGRESSIVE POLICIES --
[00:57:51] REGRESSIVE POLICIES. PENIEL: THANK YOU.
[00:57:57] HOW HAS IMMIGRATION, RACIAL JUSTICE STRUGGLES, INEQUALITY
[00:58:01] HELPED TO RATCHET UP THE KIND OF RIGHT WING POPULISM THAT WE HAVE
[00:58:05] WITNESSED IN THE UNITED STATES AND GLOBALLY?
[00:58:07] WHEN I READ THIS, IMMIGRATION IS
[00:58:11] REALLY A THROUGH LINE. SOME PEOPLE MAY THINK THE
[00:58:15] XENOPHOBIA OF THE CURRENT ADMINISTRATION OR EVEN THE MAGA
[00:58:20] MOVEMENT IS BRAND-NEW, BUT AS YOU SHOW IN THIS BOOK, THERE IS
[00:58:22] A REAL THROUGH LINE OF THIS KIND
[00:58:24] OF XENOPHOBIA, AND ALSO THIS
[00:58:29] KIND OF BACKLASH AGAINST RACIAL JUSTICE STRUGGLES.
[00:58:32] NOT JUST RACIAL JUSTICE STRUGGLES IN THE UNITED STATES BUT GLOBALLY.
[00:58:35] IBRAM: TO GIVE ONE EXAMPLE, I
[00:58:43] ROOT THE YEAR OF THIS RESURGENCE OF GREAT REPLACEMENT THEORY
[00:58:46] ROUGHLY AROUND 2008 AND 2011.
[00:58:52] WE KNOW, FOR INSTANCE, IN THE UNITED STATES, THERE WAS A CERTAIN SEGMENT OF PEOPLE WHO
[00:58:56] CLAIMED THAT, BECAUSE OBAMA WAS
[00:58:59] ELECTED PRESIDENT, THAT MEANT
[00:59:02] THIS NATION WAS A POST-RACIAL SOCIETY. ANYONE REMEMBER THAT?
[00:59:07] THERE WAS ANOTHER IDEA THAT WAS
[00:59:08] PUT FORTH DURING THAT TIME THAT DID NOT NECESSARILY MAKE THE
[00:59:13] MAINSTREAM, BUT STARTED TO
[00:59:15] ORGANIZE AND GALVANIZE FOLKS,
[00:59:17] AND THAT WAS THE IDEA THAT THE
[00:59:20] ELECTION OF A BLACK PRESIDENT REPRESENTED THAT BLACK PEOPLE
[00:59:23] HAD TAKEN OVER THE NATION, AND WE ARE NOW GOING TO USE THE
[00:59:27] POWER TO HARM WHAT PEOPLE.
[00:59:30] THAT WAS AN IDEA THAT WHITE SUPREMACIST GROUPS STARTED
[00:59:34] CIRCULATING AT THAT TIME. AND THAT IS A GREAT REPLACEMENT
[00:59:38] THEORY.
[00:59:43] SO, THE RACIAL JUSTICE, THE MULTIRACIAL DEMOCRATIC EFFORTS
[00:59:47] THAT HELPED TO ELECT THIS
[00:59:51] NATION'S FIRST BLACK PRESIDENT
[00:59:55] WAS REFRAMED AS FUNDAMENTALLY A MOVEMENT AGAINST WHITE PEOPLE.
[00:59:58] SIMILARLY, IN 2011, THERE WAS A
[01:00:03] MAN WHO DECIDED THAT THIS
[01:00:09] LIBERAL PARTY IN NORWAY WAS
[01:00:12] ENABLING MUSLIMS TO TAKE OVER
[01:00:18] NORWAY AND ALL OF EUROPE. HE DECIDED THAT HE WAS GOING TO
[01:00:22] STOP THIS QUOTE ON QUOTE INVASION.
[01:00:29] HE WROTE A 1300-WORD MANIFESTO,
[01:00:35] MOST OF WHICH WAS LIFTED FROM OTHER SOURCES.
[01:00:39] IN THIS MANIFESTO, HE DESCRIBED
[01:00:42] WHAT HE CALLED CULTURAL MARXISM,
[01:00:47] WHICH OF COURSE, THERE IS A SENATOR FROM THIS STATE WHO WROTE A BOOK ON CULTURAL MARXISM.
[01:00:52] ANYBODY KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT?
[01:00:54] HE DESCRIBED CULTURAL MARXISM AS FACILITATING THE GREAT
[01:00:58] REPLACEMENT. HE ARGUED THAT CULTURAL MARXISM
[01:01:03] IS EMBLEMATIC IN, LET'S SAY, FEMINIST EFFORTS AT GENDER
[01:01:07] EQUALITY.
[01:01:09] HE ARGUED THAT CULTURAL MARXISM
[01:01:12] IS EMBLEMATIC IN ANTIRACISM, WHICH INDEED IS ANTIWHITE.
[01:01:17] THIS IS HIM WRITING IT IN 2011. THIS PERSON ENDED UP GOING TO
[01:01:22] OSLO, NORWAY, AND KILLING 77
[01:01:26] PEOPLE. THIS IS THE LARGEST MASS
[01:01:30] SHOOTING THAT I CHRONICLED IN "CHAINS OF IDEAS."
[01:01:35] AND THAT HAPPENED IN 2011.
[01:01:38] AGAIN, IN HIS MANIFESTO, HE
[01:01:40] IMAGINED THAT EFFORTS TOWARD
[01:01:43] RACIAL AND GENDER EQUITY WERE
[01:01:45] ACTUALLY EFFORTS TO HARM WHITE PEOPLE AND MEN.
[01:01:49] THAT HAS BEEN A THROUGH LINE THROUGHOUT THIS IDEOLOGICAL
[01:01:53] MOVEMENT. PENIEL: I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE
[01:01:59] VIOLENCE, BECAUSE READING THIS BOOK -- AND THIS WAS REALLY SAD
[01:02:04] -- REMINDED ME OF THE NUMBER OF DIFFERENT SHOOTINGS AND MASS
[01:02:09] KILLINGS THAT WERE ANTI-BLACK,
[01:02:12] ANTISEMITIC, ISLAMOPHOBIA,
[01:02:16] TRANS-PHOBIC, JUST A NUMBER OF KILLINGS THAT HAPPENED GLOBALLY.
[01:02:21] CAN YOU TALK ABOUT THE THROUGH
[01:02:26] LINE, THE CONNECTION BETWEEN
[01:02:27] THOSE KILLINGS, AND NOT JUST
[01:02:30] GREAT REPLACEMENT THEORY, BUT
[01:02:33] ALSO AUTHORITARIANISM, INEQUALITY GLOBALLY, THESE
[01:02:36] SCAPEGOATS, AND WAS THERE ANYTHING NEW THAT YOU DISCOVERED
[01:02:39] WHERE YOU READ THE HEADLINES AND THEN YOU DID THE RESEARCH, THE
[01:02:41] CONNECTION BETWEEN THIS?
[01:02:45] YOU TALK ABOUT DYLAN RUTH, CHARLSTON, BUFFALO KILLINGS.
[01:02:49] THERE ARE SO MANY THAT OCCURRED,
[01:02:52] IT IS REALLY ESTABLISH -- ASTONISHING WHEN YOU READ IT.
[01:02:54] THE BOOK IS 500 PAGES. IT IS VERY DETAILED.
[01:02:59] BUT THERE WERE SOME THAT I HAD FORGOTTEN OR HAD BLOTTED OUT OF MY MEMORY.
[01:03:06] IT IS REALLY HEAVY TO CARRY THIS .
[01:03:10] WHAT ARE SOME OF THE THROUGH
[01:03:10] LINES THAT, NOW PIECING THIS TO
[01:03:17] GET THAT THROUGH ALL OF YOUR RESEARCH, INSTEAD OF READING THESE AS SEPARATE INCIDENCES?
[01:03:21] IBRAM: WHEN I CONNECTED ALL OF
[01:03:23] THESE DIFFERENT SHOOTINGS, THE
[01:03:27] FIRST FINDING WAS THAT LITERALLY
[01:03:29] EVERY GROUP OF PEOPLE HAVE BEEN
[01:03:32] SUBJECTED TO A MASS SHOOTING.
[01:03:39] I JUST MENTIONED THAT MASS SHOOTING IN NORWAY.
[01:03:43] THOSE 77 PEOPLE WERE ALMOST ALL WHITE. OF COURSE, WE ARE FAMILIAR WITH
[01:03:47] THE MASS SHOOTING IN BUFFALO IN WHICH THOSE VICTIMS WERE BLACK.
[01:03:51] WE ARE FAMILIAR CERTAINLY WITH THE SHOOTING HERE IN TEXAS IN EL
[01:03:56] PASO IN WHICH THOSE VICTIMS WERE LATINO.
[01:04:00] WE ARE FAMILIAR HOPEFULLY WITH THE SHOOTING IN THE ATLANTA AREA.
[01:04:03] THOSE VICTIMS WERE ASIAN. WE SHOULD BE FAMILIAR WITH THE
[01:04:08] SHOOTING IN CHRISTCHURCH, NEW
[01:04:11] ZEALAND IN WHICH 51 MUSLIMS WERE KILLED.
[01:04:19] TO ME, I THINK THAT IS ONE OF
[01:04:21] THE THINGS, LITERALLY, IT
[01:04:24] ALLOWED ME TO
[01:04:31] GREAT REPLACEMENT THEORY IS THE MOST DANGEROUS POLITICAL THEORY
[01:04:34] OF OUR TIME. IT LITERALLY JUSTIFYING THE
[01:04:39] KILLING OF US ALL.
[01:04:43] THE WAY THAT IS OPERATING -- I
[01:04:46] DID NOT MENTION THE JEWISH
[01:04:50] AMERICANS WHO WERE KILLED IN PITTSBURGH.
[01:04:51] THE SHOOTER OF THAT SYNAGOGUE
[01:04:56] BELIEVED JEWISH AMERICANS WERE FACILITATING THE GREAT REPLACEMENT.
[01:05:00] THE CONSTRUCT OF A GLOBALIST
[01:05:03] DELETE CONNECTS DIRECTLY TO THE
[01:05:05] CONSTRUCT OF INTERNATIONAL JEWE RY.
[01:05:12] NAZI FIGURES WERE THIS GLOBAL BODY THAT WAS RULING THE WORLD
[01:05:16] AND ALLOWING FOR THE DISPLACEMENT OF AREA GERMANS --
[01:05:20] ARRYAN GERMANS. IT HAS JUSTIFIED GENOCIDE.
[01:05:24] IT HAS JUSTIFIED WARS.
[01:05:28] ANOTHER THROUGH LINE IS THE
[01:05:29] THEORY ITSELF THAT TYPICALLY
[01:05:34] THESE SHOOTERS EXPRESS IN THEIR MANIFESTOES IS WHAT I CALL IN
[01:05:38] THE BOOK WHITE GENOCIDE.
[01:05:42] THIS IS A THEORY THAT WHITE PEOPLE ARE FACING ANNIHILATION.
[01:05:47] THIS IS A VERY POPULAR AND HEAVILY PROMOTED THEORY.
[01:05:52] IT IS A FEAR THAT EVEN ELON MUSK PUSHES REGULARLY ON HIS X
[01:05:56] ACCOUNT. LET'S SAY YOU ARE A YOUNG WHITE MALE.
[01:06:01] YOU HAVE INTERNALIZED THE IDEA THAT WHITE PEOPLE ARE FACING A
[01:06:06] GENOCIDE, FACING EXTINCTION.
[01:06:13] YOU THEN HEAR THESE POLITICIANS SAY WE ARE GOING TO PROTECT WHITE PEOPLE.
[01:06:17] YOU KNOW WHAT? I DON'T BELIEVE IT.
[01:06:21] THE GREAT REPLACEMENT CONTINUES TO HAPPEN. YOU DECIDE IN ORDER FOR WHITE
[01:06:24] PEOPLE TO GET PROTECTED, WE NEED TO SPARK A RACE WAR.
[01:06:29] TO SPARK A RACE WAR, I NEED TO GO TO WAR MYSELF.
[01:06:32] THAT IS WHITE IN THIS TEXT I
[01:06:35] DESCRIBE THESE PEOPLE AS GREAT REPLACEMENT SOLDIERS.
[01:06:39] THEY IMAGINE THEMSELVES AS SOLDIERS FOR THE WHITE RACE.
[01:06:42] WHAT IS STRIKING IS ALMOST
[01:06:47] ALWAYS THEY CLAIM THEY ARE DEFENDERS OF THE WHITE RACE AND
[01:06:50] ALMOST ALL THE SHOOTERS BEFORE OR AFTER ENGAGING IN MASS
[01:06:54] SHOOTINGS KILLED THEIR WHITE WIFE OR WHITE MOTHER.
[01:06:57] PENIEL: YOU LOOK AT PEOPLE LIKE
[01:07:00] KYLE RITTENHOUSE AND OTHERS WHO HAVE BEEN INVOLVED IN MASS
[01:07:04] SHOOTINGS.
[01:07:06] HAVE BEEN FOUND NOT GUILTY IN
[01:07:12] TERMS OF THE U.S. JURISPRUDENCE.
[01:07:14] YOU MENTIONED NAZIS.
[01:07:18] THIS WAS A QUESTION I WAS WINNING TO ASK YOU.
[01:07:24] THROUGHOUT "CHAIN OF IDEAS" YOU EXAMINE HOW THE NATIONAL
[01:07:27] SOCIALIST PARTY AND THE IDEAS
[01:07:30] COMING OUT OF THE 1930'S HAVE
[01:07:37] CONTINUED. WE ARE THINKING ABOUT GENOCIDE
[01:07:42] OF KILLING 6 MILLION JEWS, 5 MILLION OTHERS.
[01:07:46] YOU GIVE IT POTENTIAL
[01:07:53] BIGGER TOTAL OF DEATH FROM THE NAZI TOTALITARIAN AND ANTI-SEMITISM.
[01:07:58] YOU THREW OUT THAT THEY
[01:08:05] CIRCULATE LONG AFTER NAZI-ISM WAS THOUGHT TO HAVE BEEN DEFEATED, INCLUDING IN CHILE.
[01:08:10] YOU GET DEEP INTO IT THERE..
[01:08:13] GIVE US AN EXAMPLE OF THIS.
[01:08:16] WHY IS THIS THE CASE?
[01:08:19] HOW ARE THESE WHAT YOU CALL
[01:08:23] NEO-NAZI IDEAS BECOMING
[01:08:25] MAINSTREAM IN GLOBAL POLITICAL CULTURE?
[01:08:29] IBRAM: IT'S IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND FIRST THE
[01:08:33] ORGANIZATIONAL OR LITERALLY THE
[01:08:40] PERSONAL CONNECTION.
[01:08:44] WHAT I MEAN BY THE ORGANIZATIONAL CONNECTION, FOR
[01:08:48] INSTANCE, RIGHT NOW THE MOST
[01:08:51] POPULAR POLITICAL PARTY IN
[01:08:53] AUSTRIA WAS FOUNDED BY FORMER NAZIS.
[01:08:58] IF YOU MOVE DOWN TO ITALY, THE
[01:09:00] LEADER OF ITALY IS GIORGIA MELONI.
[01:09:05] HER PARTY IS THE BROTHERS OF ITALY.
[01:09:06] THAT PARTY WAS FOUNDED INITIALLY
[01:09:11] -- IT WAS CALLED THE ITALIAN SOCIAL MOVEMENT.
[01:09:14] IT WAS FOUNDED IN 1950.
[01:09:18] IT WAS A PLAY ON WORDS TO WHAT WAS CALLED THE ITALIAN SOCIAL REPUBLIC.
[01:09:23] THE ITALIAN SOCIAL REPUBLIC WAS
[01:09:24] THE NAME OF MUSSOLINI'S NORTHERN
[01:09:29] ITALIAN STATE THAT WAS PROPPED
[01:09:31] UP BY NAZIS AT THE END OF WORLD WAR II.
[01:09:37] YOU MOVE OVER -- YOU MENTIONED CHILE.
[01:09:42] THE CURRENT PRESIDENT OF CHILE,
[01:09:45] HIS FATHER WAS A CARD-CARRYING
[01:09:51] MEMBER OF THE NAZI PARTY.
[01:09:54] JUST TO GIVE SOME CONTEXT, ONLY
[01:09:57] 10% OF GERMANS WERE CARD-CARRYING MEMBERS OF THE NAZI PARTY.
[01:10:01] ONE OF THOSE WAS THE CURRENT -- THE FATHER OF THE CURRENT PRESIDENT.
[01:10:05] AFTER THE WAR, MANY NAZI OFFICIALS FLED GERMANY.
[01:10:10] MANY OF THOSE NAZI OFFICIALS FLED TO WHAT IS CALLED THE SOUTHERN COMB.
[01:10:15] BRAZIL, ARGENTINA, CHILE. ONE OF THOSE WAS MICHAEL CAST.
[01:10:19] PENIEL: WHY DID THEY GO THERE?
[01:10:22] IBRAM: THEY WERE FACING THE NUREMBERG TRIALS.
[01:10:25] PENIEL: BUT WHY DID THEY PICK THAT PART OF THE WORLD?
[01:10:29] IBRAM: THERE WAS ALREADY A
[01:10:33] SIZABLE GERMAN POPULATION IN THAT PART OF THE WORLD. THE LEADERS IN THOSE COUNTRIES
[01:10:36] WERE PARTIAL TO THE NAZI PARTY.
[01:10:39] THEY FLED THEIR, REESTABLISH THEMSELVES.
[01:10:43] MANY CHANGED THEIR NAMES.
[01:10:45] THEN THEY SUPPORTED LATIN AMERICAN DICTATORS.
[01:10:50] FOR INSTANCE, JOSE ANTONIO
[01:10:54] COST'S FATHER WAS A SUPPORTER OF
[01:10:56] A GUST OF PINOCHET -- AUGU
[01:11:03] STO PINOCHET.
[01:11:06] OTHER LEADERS RIGHT NOW WHO ARE EXPOSING GREAT REPLACEMENT
[01:11:09] THEORY IN LATIN AMERICA LITERALLY ARE THE DAUGHTERS AND
[01:11:14] SONS OF FORMER LATIN AMERICAN DICTATORS.
[01:11:18] THIS IS LITERALLY WHAT IS HAPPENING.
[01:11:22] THAT IS THE ORGANIZATIONAL CONNECTION THAT I TRIED TO MAP.
[01:11:27] THEN THERE IS THE IDEOLOGICAL CONNECTION.
[01:11:31] EARLIER I TALKED ABOUT THE DEFINITION OF GREAT REPLACEMENT
[01:11:33] THEORY AS THE FIRST NOTION OF THE GLOBALIST ELITES.
[01:11:39] THAT IS A RENOVATION OF THE TERM INTERNATIONAL JEWERY.
[01:11:43] THE SECOND, PEOPLES OF COLOR ARE REPLACERS.
[01:11:48] THAT IS A RENOVATION OF JEWS.
[01:11:51] THE THIRD CONCEPT, THAT WHITE
[01:11:56] PEOPLE ARE BEING REPLACED.
[01:11:57] WHITE PEOPLE IS THE RENOVATION
[01:12:01] OF THE ARIAN.
[01:12:04] THE LAST IDEA OF -- THOSE WHITE
[01:12:06] PEOPLE -- ARIANS BEING REPLACED
[01:12:10] NEED AUTHORITARIAN PROTECTION.
[01:12:12] THAT WAS HITLER'S OFFER TO
[01:12:15] GERMAN CITIZENS.
[01:12:17] I WILL PROTECT YOU FROM THESE
[01:12:20] JEWS WHO ARE COMING TO HARM YOU OR HAVE TAKEN OVER THE WORLD.
[01:12:25] I AM INVADING POLAND. I AM INVADING RUSSIA.
[01:12:29] I AM INVADING CZECHOSLOVAKIA BECAUSE ETHNIC GERMANS ARE BEING
[01:12:33] OPPRESSED. THAT IS HOW HE JUSTIFIED WORLD WAR II.
[01:12:36] NOW YOU HAVE GREAT REPLACEMENT
[01:12:39] POLITICIANS ALL OVER THE WORLD
[01:12:43] CLAIMING INDIAN HINDUS ARE BEING
[01:12:50] REPLACED APPARENTLY BY MUSLIMS IN INDIA.
[01:12:53] IN THE UNITED STATES, YOU HAVE THIS PRESIDENT CLAIMING WHITE
[01:12:58] MEN ARE BEING DISPLACED BY WOMEN AND PEOPLES OF COLOR.
[01:13:03] ON AND ON ALL OVER THE WORLD.
[01:13:05] IT IS A RENOVATION OF NAZI
[01:13:09] THEORY. IN THE BOOK I ARGUE GREAT
[01:13:13] REPLACEMENT THEORY IS A NEO-NAZI IDEA, BOTH FROM AN
[01:13:16] ORGANIZATIONAL STANDPOINT AND AN IDEOLOGICAL STANDPOINT.
[01:13:19] PENIEL: I WANT TO BRING US TO THE UNITED STATES.
[01:13:24] YOU TALK ABOUT GREAT REPLACEMENT PARTIES. CAN I GET ANOTHER EXAMPLE?
[01:13:28] IBRAM: SORRY. I'M SORT OF ON A ROLL. [LAUGHTER]
[01:13:33] YOU MIND IF I GIVE SOMETHING
[01:13:35] AWAY IN THE BOOK THAT WAS FASCINATING TO ME WHEN I DISCOVERED THIS?
[01:13:39] YOU MENTIONED AT THE ONSET OF
[01:13:41] OUR TALK HOW RENAUD CAMU
[01:13:50] TRAVELS TO SOUTHERN FRANCE IN
[01:13:52] THE LATE 1990'S, IMAGINES HE IS
[01:13:57] SEEING NORTH AFRICAN MUSLIMS COMING IN TAKING OVER. THAT THEY BY REPRESENTED THE
[01:14:00] GREAT REPLACEMENT.
[01:14:03] HE SORT OF CHRONICLES THAT IN
[01:14:04] ONE OF HIS -- IN THE BOOK CALLED "THE GREAT REPLACEMENT."
[01:14:09] THIS WAS THE PIVOTAL MOMENT IN WHICH HE KNEW THERE WAS A PROBLEM.
[01:14:14] WELL, IF YOU HAVE NOT READ MEIN KAMPF, AND YOU PROBABLY DON'T
[01:14:18] WANT TO READ IT, HITLER HAS A STRIKINGLY SIMILAR STORY IN
[01:14:22] WHICH HE IS IN -- IN WHICH HE
[01:14:27] POSITIONS HIMSELF AS BEING IN
[01:14:31] CENTRAL EUROPE AND SEEING JEWS
[01:14:37] AS COMING IN TAKING OVER. THAT BECOMING THE MOMENT IN
[01:14:40] WHICH HE REALIZES THAT THERE IS THIS REPLACEMENT THAT IS
[01:14:45] HAPPENING THAT HE NEEDS TO DEFEND ARIANS FROM.
[01:14:50] WHAT IS STRIKING HE
[01:14:55] STUDIED HITLER.
[01:15:01] HE ARGUES BECAUSE WE ARE NOT ABLE TO USE NAZI TERMINOLOGY --
[01:15:05] WHEN I SAY WE, LET'S SAY
[01:15:07] EUROPEANS, HE ARGUES THAT EUROPE IS NOW OPEN SEASON.
[01:15:16] WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO USE NAZI TERMS, NOT BECAUSE WE ARE NAZIS
[01:15:19] AND ANTI-SEMITIC, BUT THEY MEANT SOMETHING HERE IN WHICH YOU
[01:15:23] SHOULD BE KEEPING OUT THE INTERNAL ENEMIES.
[01:15:25] HE GOES ON TO ARGUE, BUT I'M NOT ANTI-SEMITIC.
[01:15:28] I'M NOT A NAZI.
[01:15:30] I JUST WANT TO USE THEIR TERMS AND IDEAS, BUT I'M NOT A NAZI. [LAUGHTER]
[01:15:36] PENIEL: WITH THE TIME WE HAVE I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE UNITED
[01:15:41] STATES AND THE WAY IN WHICH THESE IDEAS ARE SWIRLING HERE.
[01:15:47] YOU TALK ABOUT GREAT REPLACEMENT FINANCIERS, GREAT REPLACEMENT
[01:15:51] PARTIES, GREAT REPLACEMENT POLITICIANS.
[01:15:54] I WANT TO LOOK AT THE U.S.
[01:15:57] CONTEXT, ESPECIALLY ONE OF THE
[01:16:01] THINGS THAT WAS INTERESTING IN READING THE BOOK IS THE WAY IN
[01:16:03] WHICH YOU SITUATE DONALD TRUMP IN THE BIRTHER MOVEMENT.
[01:16:09] -- AND OF THE BIRTHER MOVEMENT -- AND THE BIRTHER MOVEMENT.
[01:16:14] YOU SEE THE WAY THE PIECES FIT.
[01:16:18] THE FACT THAT TRUMP WAS ABLE TO BECOME A POLITICAL CANDIDATE AND
[01:16:21] REALLY MAKE HIS BONES NOT JUST OFF THE CELEBRITY OF THE
[01:16:24] APPRENTICE BUT THE BIRTHER MOVEMENT.
[01:16:29] THE BIRTHER MOVEMENT IS ABSOLUTELY CONNECTED TO THE
[01:16:33] GREAT REPLACEMENT MOVEMENT -- THEORY AND THE SENSE THAT THIS
[01:16:36] IDEA THAT OBAMA WAS NOT REALLY AN AMERICAN.
[01:16:39] THE WAY YOU COULD DO THAT WAS REALLY BECAUSE OF HIS BLACKNESS.
[01:16:45] THE INDIGENOUS AMERICANS -- THEY ARE NOT THINKING ABOUT INDIGENOUS NATIVE AMERICANS.
[01:16:50] THEY ARE MAKING THE ARGUMENT THAT INDIGENOUS AMERICANS WERE WHITE CHRISTIANS.
[01:16:54] IT'S INTERESTING HOW TRUMP BECOMES THIS MAJOR FIGURE WITH
[01:16:58] THAT.
[01:16:59] I WANT YOU TO TALK ABOUT THE
[01:17:03] CONNECTION BETWEEN THESE GREAT REPLACEMENT POLITICAL PARTIES
[01:17:06] AND FINANCIERS AND POLITICIANS. YOU GET INTO TRUMP.
[01:17:10] YOU ALSO GET INTO PROJECT 2025
[01:17:15] AND A VERY INTERESTING WAY -- IN
[01:17:19] A VERY INTERESTING WAY. STEPHEN MILLER, BANNON, ALL
[01:17:23] THESE CHARACTERS WHO ARE CIRCULATING WITHIN A GLOBAL CONTEXT.
[01:17:27] THAT IS WHAT I APPRECIATED ABOUT THE BOOK.
[01:17:29] THEY ARE NOT -- AT TIMES THEY
[01:17:34] ARE INNOVATORS BUT AT TIMES THEY
[01:17:38] ARE AMPLIFYING THE INNOVATION OF PEOPLE ELSEWHERE. YOU SHOW THAT.
[01:17:42] BECAUSE OF OUR AMERICAN BIAS WE
[01:17:43] SAY THESE FOLKS, THEY CREATED ALL OF IT.
[01:17:48] EVEN THOUGH AMERICAN IDEAS
[01:17:50] CERTAINLY CIRCULATE GLOBALLY AND EVEN CIRCULATE IN THE NAZI
[01:17:54] GERMANY, AT TIMES AMERICANS GET
[01:17:56] THESE IDEAS FROM OTHER PLACES AS WELL.
[01:18:01] CAN YOU TALK ABOUT THAT AND THE WAY IN WHICH -- AND WHY THE
[01:18:05] UNITED STATES WAS SO VULNERABLE TO THIS?
[01:18:07] ONE OF THE FINAL PARTS THAT YOU
[01:18:10] SAY HERE IS THE WAY IN WHICH
[01:18:12] GREAT REPLACEMENT THEORY IS INTERESTING.
[01:18:15] IT CAN INCLUDE PEOPLE OF COLOR. IT CAN INCLUDE PEOPLE OF COLOR AS ADVOCATES OF IT.
[01:18:21] IT IS A VERY COMPLICATED -- JUST BECAUSE IT IS NOT WHO WE MIGHT ALWAYS SUSPECT.
[01:18:26] WHY WERE WE SO VULNERABLE TO
[01:18:28] THIS AND STILL ARE OF THIS
[01:18:32] AUTHORITARIANISM?
[01:18:34] ESPECIALLY TRUMP 2.0 AND PROJECT
[01:18:38] 2025 HAS BEEN MORE SUCCESSFUL THAN THE FIRST TERM, EVEN THOUGH
[01:18:41] IT FEATURES CHARLOTTESVILLE AND FEATURES HEINOUS THINGS.
[01:18:47] IBRAM: I THINK FIRST AND
[01:18:52] FOREMOST -- I THINK THAT WAS TO
[01:18:58] BE ONE OF THE MOST INTERESTING ASPECTS OF RESEARCHING AND
[01:19:02] WRITING "CHAIN OF IDEAS." LEARNING HOW SO MANY TALKING
[01:19:06] POINTS AND EVEN TERMS THAT WE
[01:19:10] KNOW OF IN THE UNITED STATES
[01:19:13] WERE FIRST TESTED IN POPULAR ART -- AND POPULAR AS IN OTHER COUNTRIES.
[01:19:17] EVEN SITUATIONS HAPPEN IN OTHER COUNTRIES. IN ITALY, I MENTIONED GIORGIA
[01:19:21] MELONI. THERE WAS AN INCIDENT IN A
[01:19:24] POLITICAL CAMPAIGN WHERE HER
[01:19:28] PARTY CIRCULATED THIS VIDEO THAT
[01:19:33] APPEARED TO SHOW THIS AFRICAN
[01:19:36] MIGRANT COOKING CATS ON A PUBLIC STREET.
[01:19:40] THEY USED THAT IN A VERY SIMILAR
[01:19:44] WAY, THE FALSE ALLEGATION OF
[01:19:50] HAITIAN IMMIGRANTS "COOKING CATS."
[01:19:52] I THINK -- WE ARE NOT FULLY
[01:19:55] AWARE OF HOW MUCH OUR
[01:20:00] POLITICIANS ARE LITERALLY USING
[01:20:05] THE MOST EFFECTIVE PROPAGANDA TACTICS OF OTHER AUTHORITARIANS AROUND THE WORLD.
[01:20:11] SECONDLY, WITH THE FINANCIERS,
[01:20:15] ALMOST EVERY COUNTRY, INCLUDING THE UNITED STATES, THE
[01:20:19] WEALTHIEST PEOPLE IN THE COUNTRY ARE TYPICALLY FINANCING THE
[01:20:23] POLITICIANS AND THE POLITICAL PARTIES WHO ARE PUSHING GREAT REPLACEMENT THEORY.
[01:20:28] WHY WOULD A WEALTHY PERSON WHO
[01:20:32] IS ADVOCATING FOR POLICIES OR
[01:20:36] PUSHING A NEW TECHNOLOGY LIKE
[01:20:39] AI, OR USING NEW EXPLOITATIVE
[01:20:46] TACTICS ON LOW AND MIDDLE INCOME WHITE MEN, WHY WOULD THEY WANT
[01:20:50] THAT WHITE MAN WHO THEY ARE ROBBING BLIND TO THINK THEY ARE
[01:20:53] BEING ROBBED BY BLACK AND BROWN PEOPLE?
[01:20:56] I THINK EVERYBODY CAN FIGURE THAT OUT.
[01:20:58] THAT IS HOW WEALTHY PEOPLE HAVE
[01:21:01] RECOGNIZED THE UTILITY OF GREAT
[01:21:04] REPLACEMENT THEORY. NOT ONLY ARE THEY ABLE TO
[01:21:08] CONVINCE THE PEOPLE -- THE
[01:21:10] VICTIMS OF THEIR ROBBERIES THAT THEY ARE BEING ROBBED BY OTHERS,
[01:21:15] THEY ARE ALSO ABLE TO CONVINCE THE VICTIMS OF THEIR ROBBERIES
[01:21:18] THAT THEY SHOULD LOOK TO THEM TO PROTECT THEM.
[01:21:22] CAN YOU IMAGINE THAT? YOU ARE ROBBING SOMEBODY BLIND
[01:21:26] AND TRYING -- GETTING THEM TO BELIEVE YOU ARE THE BEST PROTECTOR.
[01:21:32] THAT IS WHY IT HAS BEEN SO EFFECTIVE AND THAT IS WHY BILLIONAIRES ALL OVER THE WORLD
[01:21:36] ARE PUSHING THIS GREAT REPLACEMENT THEORY. A FINAL THING I WILL SAY ABOUT
[01:21:40] THIS, I HAVE BEEN STRUCK BY THE
[01:21:45] NUMBER OF AMERICANS WHO DO NOT
[01:21:49] BELIEVE THAT TRUMP COULD RUN FOR ANOTHER TERM.
[01:21:54] THE REASON WHY -- I WOULD HAVE
[01:21:57] BEEN IN THE CAMP OF THAT IS IMPOSSIBLE.
[01:22:00] IT IS IN THE CONSTITUTION THAT HE CAN ONLY RUN TWO TERMS.
[01:22:05] BUT THEN HE HAS BEEN STUDYING RUSSIA. HE HAS BEEN STUDYING EL SALVADOR.
[01:22:09] IN BOTH OF THOSE COUNTRIES IT WAS IN THE CONSTITUTION THAT THE
[01:22:13] SITTING PRESIDENTS COULD NOT RUN
[01:22:16] FOR ANOTHER TERM, WHETHER PUTIN
[01:22:19] OR BIKELE.
[01:22:25] THEY BASICALLY IGNORED WHAT WAS IN THE CONSTITUTION.
[01:22:28] FOR US TO NOT THINK THAT THE
[01:22:30] SAME THING COULD NOT HAPPEN HERE
[01:22:33] WITH THIS CONGRESS AND WITH THIS
[01:22:37] SUPREME COURT, AS FICKLE AND
[01:22:42] ERRATIC AND INCOMPETENT AS THEY ARE, IS SOMETHING THAT IS
[01:22:46] SURPRISING TO ME. PENIEL: WELL, THANK YOU.
[01:22:52] MY LAST QUESTION AND THEN WE WILL OPEN IT UP.
[01:22:53] YOU TALK ABOUT HOPE AND WHAT YOU
[01:23:00] -- HOW YOU THINK THE WORLD, INCLUDING THE UNITED STATES
[01:23:03] WOULD YOU KEEP IT GLOBAL MIGHT BE ABLE TO GET OUT OF THIS
[01:23:08] PERIOD OF AUTHORITARIANISM.
[01:23:11] THAT IS WHAT I WANT YOU TO LEAVE US WITH.
[01:23:15] WHAT ARE SOME DIRECTIONS THAT YOU ARE SEEING THAT ARE
[01:23:18] POSITIVE, PRO-DEMOCRACY IN TERMS
[01:23:24] OF THE RESISTANCE TO THIS KIND OF AUTHORITARIANISM?
[01:23:27] PEOPLE OR PARTIES OR GROUPS, INCLUDING EVERYTHING FROM SOCIAL
[01:23:30] MEDIA -- THERE'S A LOT OF YOUNG PEOPLE HERE.
[01:23:35] ACTIVISTS, INTELLECTUALS, SCHOLARS, ORDINARY PEOPLE WHO
[01:23:38] ARE ARTICULATING NOT ONLY A
[01:23:44] CRITIQUE OF THIS AUTHORITARIANISM BUT ARTICULATING AN ASPIRATIONAL NEW
[01:23:49] WORLD THAT CAN BE CREATED WHERE
[01:23:53] THESE INSTITUTIONS RECOGNIZE HUMAN DIGNITY, AND YOU USE THAT
[01:23:57] WORD, A