CSPAN — Washington Journal Jon Marcus
20260822 230100 UTC
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[00:00:05] C-SPAN2 AT 6:00 P.M. EASTERN FOR PROGRAMMING HIGHLIGHTING THE
[00:00:11] MOST MEMORABLE MOMENTS COVERED BY C-SPAN IN 20 26.
[00:00:14] MONDAY, A SPECIAL LINE OF
[00:00:17] OUR ORIGINAL SERIES BOOK CLUB
[00:00:22] FEATURING AUTHORS CONVERSATIONS.
[00:00:27] TUESDAY, CONGRESSIONAL HEARINGS THAT SCRUTINIZED IMPORTANT ISSUES AND CAPTURED THE
[00:00:31] ATTENTION OF THE COUNTRY. WEDNESDAY, A LOOK AT THE
[00:00:34] EXPLORATION, INNOVATION AND ACHIEVEMENT THAT HAVE PUSHED
[00:00:37] BOUNDARIES OF WHAT IS POSSIBLE FROM THE HISTORY OF THE AMERICAN
[00:00:40] SPACE PROGRAM TO ARTEMIS II.
[00:00:43] THURSDAY, WE AIR SOME OF THIS YEAR'S MOST WATCHED, TALKED
[00:00:46] ABOUT AND MEMORABLE C-SPAN PROGRAMMING THAT CAPTURED PUBLIC
[00:00:50] ATTENTION. ON FRIDAY, SUPREME COURT JUSTICES DISCUSSING THEIR LIVES,
[00:00:54] THE CONSTITUTION, THE COURTS, AND WHAT IT MEANS TO SERVE ON
[00:00:57] THE NATION'S HIGHEST COURT.
[00:01:00] WATCH A MARATHON NEXT WEEK ON
[00:01:01] C-SPAN2.
[00:01:06] >> THE QUALITY OF HIGHER
[00:01:09] EDUCATION IN THE U.S. BECOMES
[00:01:12] THE INSTITUTIONS THEMSELVES WITH
[00:01:14] THE SENIOR HIGHER EDUCATION
[00:01:18] REPORTER, THANK YOU FOR COMING BY. >> GREAT TO BE WITH YOU.
[00:01:26] >> YOUR LATEST STORY HAS THIS HEADLINE. U.S. UNIVERSITIES ARE SLIDING INTO DECLINE.
[00:02:48] >> AS THE WAR ENDED, THERE WERE
[00:02:54] CONCERNS THAT HIGHER EDUCATION WOULD DECLINE.
[00:02:56] THE RESPONSE TO THAT WAS THAT
[00:02:59] THE GOVERNMENT DID CONTINUE A TRADITION OF SUPPORTING ACADEMIC
[00:03:02] RESEARCH. THAT WAS REDOUBLED AFTER SPUTNIK.
[00:03:07] WE'VE HAD A TRADITION IN THE U.S. OF A PARTNERSHIP BETWEEN
[00:03:10] UNIVERSITIES AND COLLEGES IN THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.
[00:03:14] AS I HAS BEEN THREATENED OR AT
[00:03:18] RISK, AND EQUALLY IMPORTANT AS OTHER UNIVERSITIES AND OTHER COUNTRIES HAVE STARTED TO POUR
[00:03:23] RESOURCES INTO THE UNIVERSITIES, WE HAVE BEGAN TO SLIP A LITTLE
[00:03:27] BIT AND THE PREEMINENCE OF THIS SECTOR.
[00:03:29] >> WHAT METRICS DO YOU USE TO
[00:03:33] GAUGE THAT SLOT?
[00:03:37] >> YOU CAN SEE SPECIFIC DATA RELATIVE TO PEOPLE COMING TO THE
[00:03:41] UNITED STATES TO STUDY.
[00:03:45] INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS. THOSE NUMBERS ARE DOWN CONSIDERABLY UNDER THIS
[00:03:48] PRESIDENTIAL ADMINISTRATION AS THERE HAVE BEEN DEPORTATIONS AND
[00:03:53] DELAYS IN PHASES AND COUNTRIES
[00:03:58] WHERE STUDENTS ARE NO LONGER ALLOWED TO COME.
[00:04:01] THERE ARE ALSO IMPORTANT
[00:04:04] SCHOLARS LEAVING UNIVERSITIES AND COLLEGES. A CNN STORY REPORTED 85 TOP
[00:04:09] SCHOLARS HAVE LEFT, MANY FOR CHINA.
[00:04:13] A NOBEL PRIZE WINNER, A CHEMIST
[00:04:16] FROM BERKELEY, LEFT TO RUN AN INSTITUTE AT A UNIVERSITY IN
[00:04:19] CHINA. ONE OF THE IMPORTANT THINGS TO KEEP IN MIND HERE IS HIGHER
[00:04:24] EDUCATION IS THE SIXTH BIGGEST SERVICE EXPORT.
[00:04:28] AS HE DISCUSSED WITH YOUR PREVIOUS GUEST, WE ARE CONCERNED
[00:04:32] ABOUT THE BALANCE OF TRADE, AND
[00:04:35] WE HAD A POSITIVE BALANCE OF
[00:04:39] TRADE THANKS TO UNIVERSITIES AND COLLEGES, WHICH ARE IN ABOVE $40
[00:04:43] BILLION JUST FROM SUSPENDING THE
[00:04:48] STUDENTS THEY HAVE EJECTED. SO SCHOLARS ARE LEAVING.
[00:04:51] THAT IS ONE REALLY IMPORTANT DATA POINT.
[00:04:55] ANOTHER AREA TO KEEP AN EYE ON
[00:04:58] HIS INTERNATIONAL RANKINGS.
[00:05:00] I THINK A LOT OF YOUR LISTENERS AND VIEWERS WILL BE FAMILIAR
[00:05:03] WITH THE U.S. NEWS RANKINGS THAT
[00:05:05] FAMILIES OFTEN USE TO DECIDE
[00:05:08] WHERE THEIR KIDS WILL GO TO COLLEGE.
[00:05:11] THERE INTERNATIONAL RANKINGS IN WHICH U.S. UNIVERSITIES, I WANT
[00:05:15] TO BE CLEAR, ARE HIGHLY RANKED.
[00:05:16] SEVEN OF THE TOP 10 IN THE TIMES
[00:05:20] HIGHER EDUCATION RANKING, A U.K. BASED RANKING, THAT IS
[00:05:24] PRESTIGIOUS AND WIDELY WATCHED,
[00:05:27] SEVEN OUT OF 10 OR AMERICAN UNIVERSITIES.
[00:05:29] BUT THE NUMBER IN THE TOP 500 IS
[00:05:33] THE SMALLEST EVER. AND ASIAN UNIVERSITIES ARE RISING UP.
[00:05:38] THE SECOND LARGE INTERNATIONAL
[00:05:39] RANKING, U.S. RANKING, THERE --
[00:05:47] THERE ARE TWO HAS BEGUN TO FALL.
[00:05:47] >> OUR GUEST CAN TAKE YOUR QUESTIONS ON HIS REPORTING.
[00:05:52] IF YOU WANT TO CALL, WE DECIDED
[00:05:53] TO DIVIDE THE TIMES DIFFERENTLY.
[00:05:57] CENTRAL TIME ZONE, (202)-748-8000.
[00:05:59] (202)-748-8001 FOR MOUNTAIN AND
[00:06:03] PACIFIC. (202)-748-8002 IF YOU ARE A
[00:06:06] COLLEGE -- (202)-748-8003 IF YOU
[00:06:09] ARE A COLLEGE-EDUCATED OR STUDENT IF YOU WANT TO GIVE
[00:06:13] PREEMINENCE OF THE HIGHER INSTITUTION.
[00:06:15] OUR GUEST'S WITH --
[00:06:19] WHAT IS THAT?
[00:06:20] >> IT IS A NONPROFIT DEDICATED
[00:06:24] TO K-12 HIGHER EDUCATION IN
[00:06:27] PARTNERSHIP WITH NATIONAL MEDIA,
[00:06:29] INCLUDING NPR, NEW YORK POST AND OTHERS.
[00:06:31] >> YOU TALK ABOUT CHINA QUITE A BIT.
[00:06:36] PARTICULARLY WHEN IT COMES TO THE RATES OF POSTDOCTORAL AND
[00:06:40] HIGHER DEGREES THAT IS BEING PRODUCED.
[00:06:44] WHY IS THAT IMPORTANT A FACTOR IN?
[00:06:45] >> THESE NUMBERS ARE
[00:06:49] EXTRAORDINARY. CHINESE UNIVERSITIES ALREADY SIGNIFICANTLY OUTPACE U.S.
[00:06:52] UNIVERSITIES IN THE PRODUCTION OF DOCTORAL DEGREES IN IMPORTANT
[00:06:57] FIELDS OF SCIENCE, TECHNOLOGY, ENGINEERING, SCIENCE AND MATH.
[00:07:00] WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE PACE OF
[00:07:04] INCREMENTS, THE PACE OF WHICH THEY HAVE BEEN TURNING OUT
[00:07:07] EXPERTS IN THESE FIELDS THAT ARE
[00:07:11] SO IMPORTANT TO GLOBALLY
[00:07:13] COMPETITIVE, THEY ARE TURNING
[00:07:15] OUT THESE DOCTORAL DEGREES IN
[00:07:19] STEM AT A RATE FIVE TIMES FASTER THAN U.S. UNIVERSITIES.
[00:07:22] BECAUSE OF FUNDING CUTS, U.S.
[00:07:25] UNIVERSITIES ARE NOT ONLY NOT KEEPING PACE BUT CUTTING BACK ON
[00:07:29] THE NUMBER OF DOCTORAL CANDIDATES THEY ARE TAKING.
[00:07:31] SO THIS IS AN AREA FOR CONCERN.
[00:07:36] I THINK A LOT OF YOUR VIEWERS,
[00:07:38] AND WE MIGHT HEAR FROM THEM,
[00:07:42] HAVE A VERY AMBIVALENT FEELINGS ABOUT U.S. UNIVERSITIES AND COLLEGES.
[00:07:46] THEY ARE NOT VERY POPULAR RIGHT NOW. THAT'S ANOTHER DATA POINT.
[00:07:49] IF YOU LOOK AT SURVEY DATA,
[00:07:52] PEOPLE THINK THEY ARE VERY EXPENSIVE AND THE RETURN OF INVESTMENT IS POOR.
[00:07:56] THEY ARE NOT WRONG. BUT IT IS IMPORTANT THAT SOME AND GO TO COLLEGE.
[00:07:59] IT IS IMPORTANT THESE
[00:08:03] UNIVERSITIES CONTINUED TO DO THE RESEARCH THAT HAS HISTORICALLY
[00:08:05] LED TO ADVANCES THAT ESSENTIALLY
[00:08:08] HAVE FUELED OUR ECONOMY.
[00:08:12] WHATEVER YOU THINK OF UNIVERSITIES AND COLLEGES, WE
[00:08:14] NEED TO FIX THIS BECAUSE OTHERWISE WE ARE AT A GLOBAL DISADVANTAGE.
[00:08:18] >> THIS IS ROB, COLUMBUS, OHIO.
[00:08:22] GO AHEAD. >> HELLO.
[00:08:26] THANK YOU FOR TAKING MY CALL. I'M CALLING FOR TWO REASONS.
[00:08:32] ONE, I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR YOUR THOUGHTS ON HOW AI IS
[00:08:35] INFLUENCING MUCH OF WHAT YOU'VE SEEN IN HIGHER EDUCATION TRENDS.
[00:08:40] TWO, HAVE YOU LOOKED AT HOW
[00:08:44] NATIONALLY DUAL ENROLLMENT IS
[00:08:47] INCREASING ACCESS, FREE COLLEGE
[00:08:50] ACCESS, FOR STUDENTS WHO LIVE IN
[00:08:58] HIGHER RESOURCE SCHOOL DISTRICTS THAN STUDENTS WHO ARE NOT
[00:09:04] BENEFITING FROM THOSE RESOURCES
[00:09:08] AND DO NOT HAVE THE SAME LEVEL
[00:09:10] OF ACCESS TO DUAL ENROLLMENT,
[00:09:12] WHICH IS BASICALLY FREE COLLEGE FOR STUDENTS BEFORE THEY LEAVE
[00:09:16] HIGH SCHOOL. I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR YOUR
[00:09:19] THOUGHTS ON THAT.
[00:09:20] >> TAKE THE SECOND QUESTION
[00:09:25] FIRST.
[00:09:25] WILL ENROLLMENT PROVIDES CREDIT
[00:09:29] BEARING COLLEGE COURSES FOR STUDENTS STILL IN HIGH SCHOOL.
[00:09:31] IT'S THE FASTEST GROWING AREA IN HIGHER EDUCATION.
[00:09:33] WHEN YOU SEE AS UNIVERSITIES AND
[00:09:38] COLLEGES LIKE TO INCREASE ENROLLMENT INCREASING AT ALL, IT IS LARGELY BECAUSE OF HIGH
[00:09:43] SCHOOL KIDS TAKING COLLEGE COURSES.
[00:09:45] AS POINTED OUT, THIS TENDS TO BENEFIT WEALTHIER THAN LOWER INCOME STUDENTS.
[00:09:51] THOSE ARE THE HIGH SCHOOLS THAT ARE HOSTING THESE COLLEGE
[00:09:55] COURSES FOR STUDENTS. NOT ENTIRELY. THERE IS A LOT OF WORK BEING
[00:09:58] DONE THAT DUAL ENROLLMENT
[00:10:01] COURSES ARE MADE AVAILABLE TO LOWER INCOME STUDENTS, BUT IT IS
[00:10:06] TRUE THAT RESEARCH HAS SHOWN THIS TENDS TO BENEFIT STUDENTS
[00:10:10] WHO PROBABLY WOULD HAVE GONE TO COLLEGE ANYWAY.
[00:10:12] THE EFFECT IT HAS IS THAT STUDENTS CAN ACCUMULATE CREDITS
[00:10:16] TOWARD A DEGREE. SO THEY ARE A LITTLE AHEAD BY THE TIME THEY GET TO COLLEGE.
[00:10:22] ONE OF THE REASONS AMERICANS ARE DISILLUSIONED WITH COLLEGES AND
[00:10:27] UNIVERSITIES AS THEY'VE EXPERIENCED THE REALITY THAT
[00:10:29] FEWER THAN 50% OF THE STUDENTS
[00:10:31] THAT GO TO FOUR YEAR PROGRAMS GRADUATE IN FOUR YEARS.
[00:10:34] STUDENTS ARE VOTING WITH -- THEY
[00:10:41] ARE TAKING INTERNATIONAL BACCALAUREATE PROGRAMS THAT ALLOW THEM TO TAKE CREDIT.
[00:10:45] WHEN THEY GET TO COLLEGE, THEY CAN GET DONE FASTER.
[00:10:48] THERE'S A LOT OF ANXIETY ABOUT HOW LONG COLLEGE TAKES WHICH
[00:10:52] INCREASES THE COST. THE FIRST QUESTION ABOUT AI, I
[00:10:55] WILL LOOK AT IT IN A DIFFERENT WAY THAN YOUR CALLER MAY HAVE
[00:10:59] INTENDED.
[00:11:00] AI HAS AN ENORMOUS IMPACT, AND
[00:11:05] AS AN ADJUNCT INSTRUCTOR, I TEACH JOURNALISM, I ENCOURAGE
[00:11:08] STUDENTS TO USE AI FOR RESEARCH AS A FIRST STEP AND THEN TO DOUBLE CHECK.
[00:11:15] AS A JOURNALIST, I KNOW AI SPLITS BACK ANSWERS THAT ARE NOT TRUE.
[00:11:19] FROM THE POINT OF VIEW WE ARE TALKING ABOUT, U.S. EDUCATION
[00:11:22] DOMINANCE, WE HAVE IN THE U.S.
[00:11:28] DEPENDED ON AI INDUSTRIES LARGELY ON INTERNATIONAL
[00:11:31] STUDENTS WHO'VE COME HERE, ESPECIALLY OF THE GRADUATE
[00:11:34] LEVEL, IN FIELDS AND DISCIPLINES
[00:11:36] THAT SERVE THE AI INDUSTRY AND
[00:11:39] THEY ARE COMING AT LOWER NUMBERS.
[00:11:41] WE DON'T PRODUCE ENOUGH STUDENTS
[00:11:45] WHO ARE GOOD AT MATH TO GO INTO THOSE FIELDS SO THAT IS A THREAT
[00:11:48] TO THE AI INDUSTRY.
[00:11:49] HOW PEOPLE USE AI IN COLLEGE IS
[00:11:55] A WHOLE OTHER CAN OF WORMS.
[00:11:57] WE ARE AT A DISADVANTAGE IN THE
[00:12:01] SENSE OF NOT ATTRACTING AS MANY PEOPLE WHO ARE TRAINING IN THOSE FIELDS.
[00:12:07] HOST: LET'S HEAR FROM A COLLEGE STUDENT IN ARIZONA. DOUG, HELLO. GO AHEAD.
[00:12:11] CALLER: I HAD A QUESTION.
[00:12:15] IS IT NECESSARY FOR COLLEGE STUDENTS TO WANT TO FINISH
[00:12:19] COLLEGE IF AI IS GENERATING ALL
[00:12:21] THESE ANSWERS AND STUDENTS ARE EDUCATED MORE OFF THE INTERNET?
[00:12:26] AND THEY CAN'T REALLY AFFORD TO GO TO A SCHOOL THAT IS OVERCHARGING AND THEY WILL BE
[00:12:30] SITTING THERE FOUR YEARS TRYING TO GET DUAL CREDITS.
[00:12:33] IF AI IS GENERATING THE ANSWERS,
[00:12:37] ARE THEY REALLY EDUCATING OR LEARNING ANYTHING?
[00:12:40] TWO, WHY WOULD A STUDENT FROM A THIRD WORLD COUNTRY WANT TO COME
[00:12:44] TO THIS COUNTRY WHEN ALDEN GOT TO DO IS GET ON THE INTERNET?
[00:12:48] THREE, WHAT IS THE DOWNFALL THAT
[00:12:51] AMERICA TAKES IF WE DO MAKE EDUCATION FREE TO ALL STUDENTS
[00:12:54] IN AMERICA OUT OF HIGH SCHOOL? THANK YOU.
[00:12:56] GUEST: THOSE ARE BIG QUESTIONS.
[00:13:01] ON THE ISSUE OF WHY INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS WOULD
[00:13:04] COME HERE, IT IS NOT ONLY BECAUSE THEY CAN TAKE COURSES ON
[00:13:07] THE INTERNET, WHICH THEY CAN AND
[00:13:10] WHICH A LOT OF UNIVERSITIES ARE NOW MAKING AVAILABLE ONLINE HIGHER EDUCATION.
[00:13:14] THAT IS A WAY TO NOT ONLY PROVIDE HIGHER EDUCATION TO STUDENTS, NOT JUST IN ABSURD
[00:13:17] WORLD BUT ANY COUNTRY AROUND THE WORLD, AND REALIZE SOME REVENUE
[00:13:20] FROM IT AT A TIME --
[00:13:24] INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS ON A PRACTICAL LEVEL ARE ALSO
[00:13:28] IMPORTANT TO UNIVERSITY BOTTOM LINES.
[00:13:31] MORE THAN 300 SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THE PRESIDENTIAL
[00:13:35] ADMINISTRATION ANNOUNCED BUDGET CUTS AND LAYOFFS. A GROWING PROPORTION AND BLAMING
[00:13:39] THE DECLINE IN INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS. THEY MADE THEMSELVES VULNERABLE
[00:13:43] SO THAT THEMSELVES OF THE 2010S WHEN THE NUMBER OF DOMESTIC STUDENT STARTED TO DECLINE.
[00:13:47] WE SEE A SIGNIFICANT DECLINE
[00:13:50] SINCE 2011, SO THEY BEGAN TO RECRUIT INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS.
[00:13:55] THAT MADE THEM VULNERABLE TO THE DECLINE WE ARE SEEING NOW.
[00:13:59] FOR DOMESTIC STUDENTS, IT MEANS HIGHER PRICES AND FEWER PROGRAMS.
[00:14:03] MANY UNIVERSITIES HAVE GOT PROGRAMS AND ADVISORS FOR
[00:14:05] DOMESTIC STUDENTS BECAUSE OF THE LOST INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS.
[00:14:10] ON THE ISSUE OF WHETHER OR NOT YOU NEED TO GO TO COLLEGE, SOMEBODY NEEDS TO GO.
[00:14:14] NOT EVERYBODY DOES. THERE ARE TERRIFIC OPPORTUNITIES
[00:14:18] THAT PAY WELL IN FIELDS LIKE TRADES WHERE YOU HAVE A HUGE
[00:14:22] NUMBER OF BABY BOOMERS RETIRING. IN GENERAL, BABY BOOMERS ARE RETIRING.
[00:14:27] THAT IS THE DEMOGRAPHICS HAPPENING NOW.
[00:14:30] 18 MILLION ARE RETIRING. 14 MILLION PEOPLE ARE COMING UP
[00:14:35] BEHIND THEM. THAT LEAVES A GIANT CAP AND THE
[00:14:38] NUMBER OF PEOPLE EQUIPPED TO DO JOBS THAT AI CANNOT DO. AI CANNOT DO EVERYTHING.
[00:14:44] IT WAS FASCINATING TO WATCH THIS SPRING AS UNIVERSITY AND COLLEGE
[00:14:47] GRADUATES BOOTED SPEAKERS TALKING ABOUT AI.
[00:14:53] THEY ARE RIGHT. AT MANY ENTRY-LEVEL FIELDS, AI
[00:14:56] IS TAKING THOSE JOBS. WE ARE AT THE BEGINNING OF WHAT
[00:14:59] WILL BE THE LARGEST LABOR SHORTAGE IN THE HISTORY OF THE
[00:15:03] U.S., AND IT IS IN AREAS AI CANNOT DO LIKE TRADES, HEALTH
[00:15:07] CARE, SEMICONDUCTOR PRODUCTION,
[00:15:10] AND AREAS LIKE THAT. THERE ARE STILL A LOT OF JOBS
[00:15:13] THAT REQUIRE BACHELORS DEGREES.
[00:15:14] HOST: CHRIS, HUNTSVILLE,
[00:15:18] ALABAMA. GO AHEAD. CALLER: GOOD MORNING, UNITED STATES.
[00:15:23] THE PAST COUPLE OF YEARS, ONE
[00:15:26] PARTY HAS BEEN ADVOCATING FOR THE DEFUNDING OF U.S. UNIVERSITIES.
[00:15:30] I'M WONDERING IF YOU HAVE ANY
[00:15:33] IDEA FOR HOW EFFECTIVE HAVE THEY
[00:15:34] BEEN OUT IN FUNDING OUR HIGHER EDUCATION SYSTEM?
[00:15:38] GOV. LANCE BOTTOMS: LET'S STICK --
[00:15:40] HOST: LET'S STICK DOMESTICALLY
[00:15:45] WITH EFFORTS TO TRUMP ADMINISTRATION ARE MAKING WHEN IT COMES TO DEFUNDING.
[00:15:48] GUEST: THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION
[00:15:51] HAS CUT FUNDING. MUCH OF IT WAS RESTORED BY COURTS.
[00:15:56] IT IS STILL BEING DOLED OUT SLOWLY BUT AGENCIES THAT CONTROL IT.
[00:16:02] THAT HAS HAD THE RESULTS, AS ALL OF US HAVE READ, CURTAILING OR
[00:16:07] TERMINATING REALLY IMPORTANT RESEARCH INTO THINGS LIKE
[00:16:10] MEDICAL CAREERS AND OTHER THINGS LIKE THAT. THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION HAS A
[00:16:14] PLAN THAT WOULD SHIFT MUCH OF
[00:16:16] THE GOVERNMENT'S FEDERAL RESEARCH FUNDING AWAY FROM
[00:16:19] UNIVERSITIES, COLLEGES AND AND OTHER PLACES.
[00:16:23] ALL OF THAT IS BAD NEWS FOR UNIVERSITIES. THEY ARE NOT BLAMELESS.
[00:16:28] BOTH PARTIES ARE TRYING TO CUT BACK ON THE AMOUNT OF FUNDING THAT UNIVERSITIES AND COLLEGES
[00:16:32] GET FURTHER OVERHEAD.
[00:16:33] THIS IS KNOWN EUPHEMISTICALLY AS
[00:16:37] "INDIRECT COSTS." IT IS A PROPORTION OF FEDERAL
[00:16:41] RESEARCH FUNDING THAT GOES TO EQUIPPING THE LAB AND PAYING FOR
[00:16:44] THE CONDITIONING AND HEAT AND
[00:16:45] WORKERS AND BEAKERS, AND THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION PUSHED BACK
[00:16:49] ON THAT, SO FAR, UNSUCCESSFULLY.
[00:16:53] WE SPEND A LOT OF MONEY ON ACADEMIC RESEARCH THAT DOES NOT
[00:16:56] NECESSARILY TRANSFORM INTO IT
[00:17:00] AND NEW TECHNOLOGY. IT IS NOT ENTIRELY WITH ACADEMIC
[00:17:04] RESEARCHERS FOR, BUT I THINK MAYBE THIS WAS A WAKE-UP CALL TO
[00:17:08] UNIVERSITIES THAT MAY BE ACHIEVED THAT MORE EFFECTIVELY
[00:17:12] -- MAYBE IT SHOULD DO THAT MORE EFFECTIVELY.
[00:17:16] DECLINE OF INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS ALSO CONSENT TO UNIVERSITY FUNDING.
[00:17:18] THOSE ARE SOME OF THE POLITICAL REPERCUSSIONS ON THE FINANCIAL
[00:17:22] REPERCUSSIONS ON TO UNIVERSITIES.
[00:17:24] STATES, NO MATTER WHAT
[00:17:28] UNIVERSITIES AND COLLEGES TEND TO COMPLAIN THAT THEY HAVEN'T, STATES HAVE BEEN PRETTY GOOD AT
[00:17:32] CONTINUING FUNDING FOR
[00:17:36] UNIVERSITIES AND COLLEGES.
[00:17:40] UNIVERSITIES HAVE NEVERTHELESS
[00:17:42] CONTINUED TO INCREASE PRICES ON FAMILIES.
[00:17:44] THAT IS A WHOLE OTHER AREA OF COVERAGE.
[00:17:48] WHERE THEY ARE LOSING MONEY NOW IS ON THE DECLINE IN ENROLLMENT
[00:17:52] AND A PROPORTION OF REVENUE THAT HAS TO BE SPENT ON DISCOUNTS AND
[00:17:56] FINANCIAL AID TO ATTRACT A SMALLER MARKET TO ACTUALLY
[00:18:00] ENROLL. THOSE ARE ALL TAKING A FINANCIAL
[00:18:03] IMPACTS ON COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES, MANY OF WHICH WE
[00:18:07] HAVE SEEN CLOSE. HOST: EARLIER THIS MONTH THAT
[00:18:10] EDUCATION SECRETARY SENT A
[00:18:13] LETTER, A CALL TO ACTION ON
[00:18:16] COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES THAT HAVE TAKEN MONEY. IN RETURN, THEY WANTED TO SEE
[00:18:20] SOME THINGS COMING OUT OF IT. PART OF THE LETTER READS HOW WE
[00:18:24] ENCOURAGED
[00:18:29] INTELLECTUAL PLURALISM IN ALL ITS ACADEMIC UNITS, HOW WILL
[00:18:32] YOUR FACULTY HIRING AND
[00:18:36] EVALUATION PRACTICES SUPPORT ACADEMIC AND ENTERPRISE IS
[00:18:39] DEDICATED TO ADVANCING KNOWLEDGE, DEEPENING UNDERSTANDING AND SERVING THE
[00:18:42] AMERICAN PEOPLE WHO FUND? WHEN YOU GET A LETTER FROM THE
[00:18:46] EDUCATION DEPARTMENT, WHAT DOES IT DO TO THE INSTITUTIONS IN THE
[00:18:50] U.S., TO THE PHENOMENON YOU ARE SEEING WHEN IT COMES TO PREEMINENCE?
[00:18:53] GUEST: THAT IS A LAUDABLE GOAL.
[00:18:56] I THINK YOU ARE SEEING A LOT OF SELF-EXAMINATION AT UNIVERSITIES AND COLLEGES.
[00:19:00] THERE ARE CLEARLY IDEOLOGICAL
[00:19:02] UNDERPINNINGS TO THAT, THAT
[00:19:05] LETTER AND THE DEMAND OF
[00:19:09] UNIVERSITIES. INITIALLY, THERE WAS THE FAMOUS
[00:19:12] COMPACT.
[00:19:14] NOW THIS IS A LITTLE BIT OF A
[00:19:18] LESS OF AN EXTREME VERSION.
[00:19:21] IT IS TRUE THAT UNIVERSITIES AND
[00:19:24] COLLEGES ARE REASSESSING THEIR DEGREE TO WHICH THEY ARE MAKING
[00:19:26] CONTRIBUTIONS TO THE AMERICAN ECONOMY AND SOCIETY.
[00:19:29] SOME OF THAT HAS MADE MADE
[00:19:32] HARDER FOR THEM, NOT EASIER BY THIS ADMINISTRATION.
[00:19:37] MOST OF THE GIST OF THAT LETTER,
[00:19:39] IF YOU READ BETWEEN THE LINES, HAS TO DO WITH IDEOLOGICAL
[00:19:43] ISSUES LIKE EQUITY AND INCLUSION, WHICH HAVE ALREADY
[00:19:47] BEEN CUT BACK MASSIVELY, ESPECIALLY BY PUBLIC
[00:19:50] UNIVERSITIES, ESPECIALLY IN SOME
[00:19:52] STATES THAT HAVE PRESCRIBED TO
[00:19:56] IT FACULTY CAN TEACH AT PUBLIC UNIVERSITIES AND COLLEGES.
[00:20:00] IT IS ALSO IMPORTANT THAT THIS
[00:20:01] IS ANOTHER MEASURE OF U.S.
[00:20:06] PREEMINENCE INTERNATIONAL. THERE IS YET ANOTHER RANKING BY
[00:20:10] THE UNIVERSITY OF METONYMY THAT
[00:20:13] IS THE FREEDOM AND INDEPENDENCE AT WHICH FACULTIES CAN DO THEIR JOBS.
[00:20:17] IN THAT RESPECT, NOT SURPRISINGLY, THE U.S. HAS FALLEN.
[00:20:23] THAT DISCOURAGES FACULTY FROM OTHER PARTS OF THE WORLD FROM COMING HERE.
[00:20:27] IN THE MEANTIME, THE EU AND CHINA HAVE BEEN THROWING MONEY
[00:20:30] AT THEM TO GET THEM TO GO HERE.
[00:20:34] SO ALL OF THESE THINGS ARE HAPPENING AND TURNING AT THE SAME TIME.
[00:20:37] HOST: THIS IS JOHN MARCUS
[00:20:40] JOINING US OF THE HECHINGER REPORT.
[00:20:44] DENISE, ILLINOIS, COLLEGE EDUCATED.
[00:20:46] CALLER: I WAS TOUCHING BASE ON
[00:20:50] DUAL ENROLLMENT, AND THE CALLER
[00:20:55] A FEW CALLS BACK AND TALKED ABOUT THAT.
[00:20:57] I TAUGHT FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS AND HAD MANY DUAL ENROLLMENT.
[00:21:02] I FOUND THAT INTERESTING BECAUSE
[00:21:05] STUDENTS WERE THE CREAM OF THE CROP. YET, THOSE WHO WERE ALLOWED TO
[00:21:09] HAVE A DUAL ENROLLMENT COURSE --
[00:21:11] IT WAS DIFFICULT ON ADJUNCT
[00:21:14] COLLEGE FACULTY. THE HIGH SCHOOL SOMETIMES DID
[00:21:18] NOT WANT TO EDUCATOR THEIR.
[00:21:23] AND WE ARE NOT PREPARED FOR IT.
[00:21:26] THERE ARE SO MANY OTHER
[00:21:28] SITUATIONS THAT HAPPENED WITH
[00:21:32] DIGITAL ENROLLMENT. THAT IS MORE OF A COMMENT.
[00:21:35] I WOULD LIKE TO SEE IF THE PRESENTER HAS ANYTHING TO SAY ON THAT. THANK YOU.
[00:21:38] GUEST: DUAL ENROLLMENT HAS GROWN
[00:21:42] SO QUICKLY THAT IT IS DIFFERENT IN DIFFERENT STATES AND DISTRICTS.
[00:21:45] SOMETIMES IT IS TAUGHT BY UNIVERSITY, FACULTY AND ADJUNCT,
[00:21:50] SOMETIMES BY HIGH SCHOOL TEACHERS.
[00:21:53] OFTEN THE COURSES MADE AVAILABLE
[00:21:54] TO STUDENTS ARE NOT COURSES THAT
[00:21:57] WOULD NECESSARILY TRANSFER. THEY ARE ON THE EASIER SIDE.
[00:22:01] THERE'S GREAT BENEFIT TO THAT BY EXPOSING YOUNG PEOPLE IN HIGH
[00:22:05] SCHOOL TO WHAT A COLLEGE COURSES
[00:22:07] LIKE, EVEN IF IT IS -- I'M NOT
[00:22:10] GOING AS A BASKET WEAVING, BUT
[00:22:13] SOMETHING THAT MIGHT NOT TRANSFER PARTICULARLY TO A MAJOR.
[00:22:17] THERE ARE A LOT OF DOWNSIDES TO
[00:22:19] IT, AND THE GROWTH HAS BEEN
[00:22:22] METEORIC, LARGELY BECAUSE AMERICAN CITIZENS SEE IT AS A WAY OF SAVING MONEY ON COLLEGE,
[00:22:25] WHICH THEY ALL WANT TO DO.
[00:22:27] THERE'S A LOT OF WORK GOING ON
[00:22:31] TO CREATE A STANDARD, NATIONAL STANDARDS, ACCREDITATION, AND
[00:22:35] WAYS TO MAKE DUAL ENROLLMENT MORE UNIFORM AND EFFECTIVE.
[00:22:40] HOST: ALLEN, SOUTH CAROLINA, GO AHEAD.
[00:22:49] CALLER: MY QUESTION IS ABOUT COST. 1988, I GRADUATED FROM
[00:22:52] APPALACHIAN STATE UNIVERSITY.
[00:22:55] MY STUDENT LOAN AMOUNT WAS A
[00:22:57] LITTLE OVER $10,000.
[00:23:00] SO MANY PEOPLE NOWADAYS, THERE
[00:23:04] ARE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS.
[00:23:06] THE COST FOR UNIVERSITIES NOW, IS IT AFFECTING THE PROCESS?
[00:23:11] AND WHY DO SO MANY STUDENTS HAVE $200,000 IN STUDENT LOANS AND
[00:23:16] THEY GET OUT OF COLLEGE? THAT'S JUST MY QUESTION, MANY ABOUT THE COST AND THE EFFECT.
[00:23:19] GUEST: THE SIX-FIGURE IS
[00:23:27] TYPICALLY GRADUATED STUDENTS.
[00:23:31] WE TALKED ABOUT THE STEPS UNDER
[00:23:34] THIS PRESIDENTIAL ADMINISTRATION. THERE HAVE BEEN REFORMS BOTH
[00:23:36] PARTIES HAVE BEEN'S PUSHING FOR FOR A LONG TIME.
[00:23:41] ONE IS TO LIMIT GRADUATE STUDENT
[00:23:43] LOAN BORROWING, WHICH SINCE 2000
[00:23:46] SIX, GRADUATE STUDENTS, NOT UNDERGRADUATES, BUT GRADUATE STUDENTS CAN BORROW AS MUCH AS
[00:23:50] THEY WANTED.
[00:23:53] SO THERE HAS BEEN A CAP.
[00:23:56] THERE ARE DOWNSIDES TO THAT.
[00:23:58] SOME STUDENTS NEED TO BORROW TO
[00:24:01] GO TO COLLEGE, PARTICULARLY PROFESSIONAL SCHOOL, THAT IS
[00:24:05] MEDICAL SCHOOL, DENTAL SCHOOL, LAW SCHOOL.
[00:24:08] THERE IS CONCERN THAT THOSE NUMBERS WILL FALL OFF.
[00:24:11] BUT THE SHORT TERM IMPACT HAS
[00:24:15] BEGAN TO BE THAT COLLEGES ARE
[00:24:17] LOWERING THEIR TUITIONS AND PROVIDING SCHOLARSHIPS TO MAKE UP THE DIFFERENCE.
[00:24:23] THE TYPICAL UNDERGRADUATE OWES 20 SOMETHING THOUSAND DOLLARS.
[00:24:26] THAT IS COMPOUNDED OVER TIME BY INTEREST.
[00:24:30] THE MORE CONCERNING PART OF THAT
[00:24:32] IS THE NUMBER OF THOSE WHO NEVER
[00:24:37] GRADUATE OR GET A THAT DOESN'T MAKE YOUR LOAN GO AWAY.
[00:24:43] THERE ARE 40 MILLION AMERICANS WHO STARTED BUT NEVER FINISHED,
[00:24:46] EQUAL TO THE POPULATION OF CANADA. MANY STILL HAVE LOAN DEBT WITH
[00:24:50] NOTHING TO SHOW FOR IT.
[00:24:51] THEY ARE VERY ANGRY, UNHAPPY AND
[00:24:57] PROBABLY THEMSELVES DON'T SEE
[00:25:00] ANY REASON TO GO TO COLLEGE THEMSELVES.
[00:25:02] THIS IS ALL KIND OF A SPIRAL THAT IS REALLY DAMAGING OVER TIME.
[00:25:06] HOST: YOU'RE RIGHT ABOUT THE
[00:25:09] AMOUNT OF STUDENT -- YOU WRITE ABOUT THE AMOUNT OF STUDENT
[00:25:13] VISAS. HOW DOES THAT FACTOR INTO YOUR REPORT?
[00:25:15] GUEST: STUDENT VISAS HAVE BEEN
[00:25:18] SLOW DOWN. IT IS HARDER FOR INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS TO GET APPOINTMENTS,
[00:25:21] WHICH THEY NEED. THEY NEED TO HAVE INTERVIEWS AT EMBASSIES.
[00:25:26] AS OF LAST WEEK, THERE WILL BE
[00:25:30] 111,000 FEWER INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS THIS FALL.
[00:25:34] THERE WAS ALREADY A HUGE DECLINE LAST YEAR.
[00:25:36] THIS DEPENDS ON WHERE YOU ARE IN SOME PARTS OF THE COUNTRY.
[00:25:41] I THINK YOU COULD GENERALIZE AND
[00:25:43] SAY THEY ARE CONSIDERED MORE
[00:25:46] PROGRESSIVE AND CONTINUE TO ATTRACT INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS.
[00:25:49] OVERALL, CLEARLY MANY HAVE STOPPED COMING, AND THAT IS A BIG PROBLEM.
[00:25:54] HOST: AUGUST REPORTS FOR THE
[00:25:56] HECHINGER REPORT. HIS NAME IS JOHN MARCUS.
[00:26:01] WHERE CAN PEOPLE FIND YOUR WORK?
[00:26:02] GUEST: HECHINGER.ORG AND IN OUR PARTNER PUBLICATIONS.
[00:26:06] HOST: HOW DO YOU INTEND TO FOLLOW UP THE STORY?
[00:26:10] IS THERE A FOLLOW-UP OR SOMETHING YOU WILL KEEP TRACK OF
[00:26:14] IT FAR AS TRENDS? GUEST: SOME OF THE INTERNATIONAL
[00:26:18] RANKINGS ARE REISSUED ANNUALLY.
[00:26:23] I SPOKE WITH THE DIRECTOR OF THE TIMES INTERNATIONAL EDUCATION
[00:26:27] RANKING WHO SAID WE ARE GOING TO SEE MORE DECLINE AMONG AMERICAN INSTITUTIONS.
[00:26:31] HOW WE REVERSE THIS IS A COMPLICATED QUESTION BECAUSE
[00:26:35] ONCE PEOPLE STOP COMING, IT'S HARD TO GET THEM TO COME BACK.
[00:26:40] SO, YEAH, THERE'S A LOT OF COMPLEXITY. IT IS IMPORTANT TO KNOW THE
[00:26:45] DAMAGE THAT IS HAPPENING, BOTH SELF-INFLICTED AND FROM THE
[00:26:49] OUTSIDE, TO UNIVERSITIES AND COLLEGES. I THINK THEY ARE AWARE OF IT.
[00:26:52] I THINK THERE IS A LOT OF WORK
[00:26:54] THAT IS JUST GETTING UNDERWAY NOW TO TURN IT AROUND.
[00:26:57] HOST: JOHN MARCUS, THANK YOU.
[00:26:59] GUEST: THANKS FOR HAVING ME.
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