CSPAN — Washington Journal Tom Nichols
20260825 172900 UTC
163 transcript segments
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[00:00:00] CLINTON. AND THANK YOU ALL COMING TONIGHT.
[00:00:03] AND FOR OUR SERIES. JUST REMEMBER TO COME BACK NEXT
[00:00:07] YEAR. THANK YOU.
[00:00:15] THIS WEEK ON C-SPAN, WE'RE
[00:00:18] BRINGING YOU LIVE TALK RADIO FEATURING VOICES FROM ACROSS
[00:00:22] AMERICAN POLITICS. AT 9 A.M. EASTERN, MICHAEL SMERCONISH HOSTS THE MICHAEL
[00:00:26] SMERCONISH PROGRAM, CHALLENGING BOTH SIDES OF THE POLITICAL.
[00:00:29] AT NOON, PROGRESSIVE COMMENTATOR THOM HARTMANN, HOST THE THOM
[00:00:32] HARTMANN PROGRAM WITH HIS TAKE ON THE DAY'S BIGGEST POLITICAL
[00:00:36] STORIES. AND THEN AT THREE CONSERVATIVE RADIO HOST HOWIE CARR HOSTS THE
[00:00:39] HOWIE CARR SHOW WITH, HIS TAKE ON POLITICS, CULTURE AND THE
[00:00:43] NEWS OF THE DAY.
[00:00:45] WATCH LIVE THIS WEEK ON C-SPAN TWO C-SPAN.
[00:00:49] NOW OUR FREE MOBILE VIDEO APP OR
[00:00:52] ONLINE AT C-SPAN DOT ORG.
[00:00:54] OUR GUEST NOW IS TOM NICHOLS. YOU PROBABLY KNOW HIM, HIS WORK
[00:00:58] AS A STAFF WRITER FOR THE ATLANTIC OR FROM HIS SOCIAL MEDIA FEEDS.
[00:01:01] YOU MAY KNOW HIM FROM HIS MANY BOOKS ON NATIONAL SECURITY AND
[00:01:05] AMERICAN DEMOCRACY. YOU NOT KNOW THAT HE WAS A FIVE TIME JEOPARDY!
[00:01:09] CHAMPION BACK IN THE MID 1990S. BUT TOM NICHOLS, LET'S START AT THE INTERSECTION OF NATIONAL
[00:01:13] SECURITY AND ECONOMIC POWER. WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF OPERATION
[00:01:16] ECONOMIC OUTCAST, THIS LATEST
[00:01:18] ROUND OF ECONOMIC SANCTIONS AGAINST IRAN?
[00:01:22] WELL, THERE'S NOT MUCH LEFT TO SANCTION.
[00:01:24] AND IF YOU'RE NOT WILLING TO
[00:01:26] REALLY GO AFTER THE RUSSIANS AND THE CHINESE AS THE PRESIDENT
[00:01:30] SEEMS UNWILLING TO DO, NOT SURE WHAT THIS IS.
[00:01:34] OTHER THAN ANOTHER SET OF ANNOUNCEMENTS. THE PRESIDENT FROM THE SECRETARY
[00:01:38] OF TREASURY KIND OF TRYING TO WISH SOMETHING INTO EXISTENCE TO
[00:01:41] SAY, YOU KNOW, IS THE BIGGEST
[00:01:43] THIS IS THE VERSION OF D-DAY,
[00:01:47] BUT IT'S NOT NOW, YOU KNOW,
[00:01:51] DEFINITELY SANCTIONS ARE IN IRAN. THEY HURT.
[00:01:54] PEOPLE ARE HUNGRY.
[00:01:56] BUT I DON'T THINK THIS PARTICULAR REGIME CARES MUCH
[00:02:00] ABOUT THAT, ESPECIALLY IF THEY HAVE FRIENDS AND PLACES IN OTHER
[00:02:06] CAPITALS. AUTHORITARIAN GOVERNMENTS REALLY DON'T.
[00:02:09] A LOT OF TIME WORRYING TOO MUCH, ABOUT THE SUFFERING OF THEIR PEOPLE.
[00:02:12] BUT I ALSO THINK THAT THIS IS A
[00:02:15] KIND OF A LEAKY SET SANCTIONS,
[00:02:19] BECAUSE IT DOESN'T INCLUDE OF
[00:02:21] THE BIGGEST PLAYERS THAT I DON'T THINK THE CHINESE ARE GOING TO ENDANGER THEIR RELATIONSHIP,
[00:02:25] IRAN OVER THIS, LET'S PUT IT THAT WAY. WHEN YOU SAY THIS IS A LEAKY SET
[00:02:29] OF SANCTIONS, SO WHAT WOULD IT MEAN? WOULD THAT ENTAIL GOING AFTER
[00:02:31] THE CHINESE?
[00:02:34] AND AND AND RUSSIA WHAT WOULD
[00:02:36] YOU NEED TO SEE FOR THIS TO BE AN ECONOMIC D-DAY?
[00:02:40] IT'D BE HARD. FIRST OF ALL, YOU'D HAVE TO HAVE THE COOPERATION OF THOSE
[00:02:43] GOVERNMENTS. IF WE'RE GOING TO STAY WITH THE
[00:02:45] D-DAY METAPHOR, THAT WAS AN
[00:02:47] ALLIED OPERATION AND NOT ONE
[00:02:50] THAT, YOU KNOW, RELUCTANT LEE DRAGGED IN SOME PEOPLE WHILE
[00:02:54] OTHER PEOPLE SAT IT OUT SOMEWHERE ELSE ON THE BEACH.
[00:02:58] SO YOU KNOW, WHAT WOULD IT TAKE?
[00:03:00] I SUPPOSE IT WOULD TAKE TREATING
[00:03:02] CHINA THE WAY WE'RE TREATING CANADA RIGHT NOW.
[00:03:06] YOU KNOW, ONE OF OUR CLOSEST FRIENDS AND ALLIES.
[00:03:09] BUT I DON'T THINK THE ADMINISTRATION HAS THE APPETITE
[00:03:13] FOR THAT BECAUSE OF THE ECONOMIC
[00:03:15] REVERBERATIONS THAT WOULD WOULD HAPPEN IN THE UNITED STATES.
[00:03:19] CHINA GETS ENERGY FROM IRAN.
[00:03:23] IT'S WORKING WITH THEM ON A LOT OF OTHER DIFFERENT LEVELS.
[00:03:27] I JUST DON'T SEE THE ADMINISTRA
[00:03:30] NATION TAKING THAT ON. I MEAN, I THINK THIS IS I THINK
[00:03:33] THEY RAN OUT OF MILITARY OPTIONS AND SO THEY REPLACED ALL THE
[00:03:37] MILITARY THEY WERE USING WITH ECONOMIC.
[00:03:40] AND THEY'RE HOPING THAT SOMEHOW THAT PRODUCES AN EFFECT WHICH,
[00:03:44] YOU KNOW, IT MIGHT, BUT THAT LOOKS DOUBTFUL RIGHT NOW.
[00:03:48] IS IT MORE EFFECTIVE WITH THE US NAVAL BLOCKADE SETTING OFF OF
[00:03:50] IRANIAN PORTS? IS THIS SOMETHING THAT JUST
[00:03:54] TAKES TIME TO SQUEEZE RATHER
[00:03:58] THAN SOME SORT OF MILITARY STRIKE THAT WOULD BE QUICK AND
[00:04:02] DECISIVE? WELL, ONE THING WE KNOW EXCUSE ME FROM THE HISTORY OF SANCTIONS
[00:04:08] IN WHENEVER THEY'VE BEEN APPLIED, WE KNOW TWO THINGS. FIRST OF ALL, SANCTIONS TEND TO
[00:04:12] WORK BEST BETWEEN TWO COUNTRIES
[00:04:13] THAT ACTUALLY TRADE EACH OTHER.
[00:04:16] YOU HAVE TO HAVE SOMETHING TO
[00:04:18] THAT CAN HURT THE THE OTHER
[00:04:22] PARTY AND GIVE SOMETHING TO WANT
[00:04:25] TO NEGOTIATE ABOUT. THE OTHER THING WE KNOW ABOUT
[00:04:28] SANCTIONS, THEY TAKE A LONG TIME
[00:04:30] AND THAT AS A COROLLARY TO THAT,
[00:04:33] THEY TAKE A LONG TIME. EVERY KIND OF EVERYBODY HAS TO BE IN ON IT.
[00:04:36] AND I'M JUST NOT SURE THAT JUST
[00:04:39] LIKE WITH THE WAR ITSELF, I'M NOT SURE THAT THE ADMINISTRATION
[00:04:42] HAS REALLY THOUGHT THIS OUT IN TERMS OF HOW THIS IS GOING TO WORK.
[00:04:46] IF YOU'RE GOING TO BLOCKADE IRANIAN PORTS, WHAT ARE YOU BLOCKING?
[00:04:49] WHICH SHIPS GOING IN AND OUT?
[00:04:52] AND IF YOU'RE GOING TO FIRE ON
[00:04:55] SOMEONE YOU KNOW WHO WHO FINE.
[00:04:58] IF THERE'S A RUN OF THE BLOCKADE, WHO ARE YOU SHOOTING AT?
[00:05:02] AND I JUST DON'T AGAIN, I DON'T THINK THEY'VE REALLY THOUGHT THIS UP.
[00:05:05] THEY KEEP SAYING THINGS AND KIND OF HOPING PRODUCES A STRATEGIC
[00:05:10] EFFECT, BUT THAT YOU KNOW, THIS WAS A WAR THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO
[00:05:13] BE OVER IN A WEEK, SIX MONTHS
[00:05:16] AGO IN THE PAGES OF TODAY'S USA
[00:05:20] TODAY, A VEEVA CLUMP IS AN OPINION CONTRIBUTOR AND SAYS
[00:05:23] WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT THIS
[00:05:25] MAJOR OUTCOME OF THE IRANIAN WAR. SHE'S TALKING ABOUT THE
[00:05:29] DISRUPTION AND DISMANTLING OF
[00:05:31] THE ARMED PARTNERS TO IRAN,
[00:05:34] STRETCHING FROM LEBANON TO GAZA
[00:05:36] TO SYRIA, IRAQ AND, YEMEN AND THE SO-CALLED AXIS OF
[00:05:39] RESISTANCE. SHE SAYS THAT IRAN IS INCREASINGLY FINDING ITSELF
[00:05:43] DOING SOMETHING IT SPENT DECADES TRYING TO AVOID, RELYING ON ITS
[00:05:46] OWN TERRITORY AND ITS OWN CAPABILITIES TO SUSTAIN THE
[00:05:51] CONFRONTATION, SAYING THAT DISMANTLING IS SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE TALKED MORE ABOUT AND
[00:05:55] CELEBRATED. IT'S A POSITIVE, BUT IT'S NOT
[00:05:59] GOING TO BE PERMANENT UNLESS
[00:06:00] THERE IS SOME KIND OF CHANGE IN
[00:06:04] REGIME, EITHER A WHOLESALE
[00:06:06] COLLAPSE OF THE REGIME OR SOME
[00:06:08] SORT OF CHANGE IN THEIR POSITION.
[00:06:12] AND IN FACT, THE IRANIAN POSITION SEEMS TO BE HARDENING. YEAH, IT'S GREAT THAT SOME OF
[00:06:16] THESE IRANIAN PROXIES ARE UNDER STRESS THAT THEY COULD BE
[00:06:20] DISARMED. YOU KNOW, THE OVERALL PICTURE
[00:06:22] WITH IRAN IS THAT IT'S
[00:06:24] MILITARILY WEAKER THAN IT WAS WHEN THE WAR STARTED?
[00:06:27] THE PROBLEM IS THAT IRAN IS IN A STRONGER STRATEGIC POSITION NOW.
[00:06:32] SO FOCUSING ON, YOU KNOW, WHICH
[00:06:35] PROXIES HAVE BEEN WEAKENED OR
[00:06:38] STRIPPED OF CAPABILITY, PERFECTLY REASONABLE TO THINK ABOUT. BUT RIGHT NOW, I THINK WHAT
[00:06:43] AMERICANS ARE PROBABLY THINKING ABOUT IS THAT A DELICATE AND AN ENEMY OF THE UNITED STATES
[00:06:48] FUNCTIONALLY THE STRAIT OF HORMUZ AND A BIG CHUNK OF THE
[00:06:50] WORLD'S GLOBAL ENERGY SUPPLY AND
[00:06:53] BY EXTENSION, A BIG PIECE OF THE GLOBAL ECONOMY.
[00:06:56] ME TURN FROM IRAN TO, UKRAINE, A
[00:06:59] HEADLINE IN POST TODAY ON EUROPEAN LEADERS YESTERDAY
[00:07:03] MARKING, UKRAINE'S 35TH IN DEPENDANCE DAY IN KIEV WITH
[00:07:08] CEREMONIES. WHAT'S YOUR SENSE OF THE STATUS
[00:07:12] OF THAT CONFLICT? THERE'S BEEN SOME REPORTS ABOUT
[00:07:15] MOVEMENT IN AND MOMENTUM FOR UKRAINIANS.
[00:07:17] HOW DO YOU READ WHAT'S GOING ON THERE?
[00:07:21] RIGHT NOW IN A REGION THAT'S SO HARD TO READ?
[00:07:25] YEAH, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, I WAS ONE OF THE THE FOLKS THAT WAS
[00:07:28] REALLY WORRIED IN THAT FIRST
[00:07:29] MONTH THAT 150,000 RUSSIAN
[00:07:32] TROOPS ATTACKING ON THREE AXES
[00:07:34] OF ADVANCE WERE NOT GOING TO BE
[00:07:40] BOGGED DOWN VERY LONG IN UKRAINE. I WORRIED ABOUT A RELATIVELY
[00:07:44] RAPID RUSSIAN VICTORY.
[00:07:46] I THINK FOUR YEARS LATER, MORE
[00:07:48] THAN FOUR YEARS LATER, NOT ONLY
[00:07:51] DID PEOPLE LIKE ME UNDERESTIMATE THE ABILITY OF THE UKRAINIAN
[00:07:55] MILITARY, BUT REALLY OVERESTIMATED THE THE RUSSIANS.
[00:07:57] AND I THINK THAT'S ONE OF THE HEADLINES FROM AFTER FOUR YEARS
[00:08:01] THAT THE IDEA THAT THIS THAT
[00:08:03] THIS WOULD GO THE DISTANCE IN THE IRAN EXCUSE ME THE
[00:08:06] UKRAINIANS WOULD RECAPTURING TERRITORY AND THAT THE RUSSIANS
[00:08:10] WOULD BE SHUTTING DOWN THEIR BORDERS TO PREVENT THEIR YOUNG
[00:08:14] MEN FROM FLEEING MASS CONSCRIPT
[00:08:17] I THINK IS A VERY IMPORTANT
[00:08:20] THING TO UNDERSTAND ABOUT THIS THIS TIME IN THE 21ST CENTURY.
[00:08:24] WITH THAT, WE ARE GOING TO BREAK AWAY FROM THIS HERE TO TAKE YOU
[00:08:28] LIVE TO AUDUBON, IOWA, WHERE REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR CANDIDATE
[00:08:30] ZACH LANE IS MEETING WITH VOTERS LIVE.
[00:08:34] CAMPAIGN 2026 COVERAGE HERE ON C-SPAN. I'VE BEEN TRAVELING THE STATE
[00:08:38] SINCE WELL, NOVEMBER AT THIS POINT AND ONE OF MY FAVORITE THINGS TO DO IS EXACTLY WHAT I'M
[00:08:42] DOING RIGHT. BUT I'LL TELL YOU, I'M NOT A POLITICIAN. I'VE NEVER RAN FOR OFFICE.
[00:08:45] OFTENTIMES, I'M A BIT MORE LONG WINDED. SOME PEOPLE ARE. SO I APOLOGIZE.
[00:08:49] AHEAD OF TIME FOR THAT. I LIKE TO GIVE MORE DETAIL THOUGHTS AND RESPONSES ON
[00:08:53] THINGS. I THINK THAT POLITICS HAS BEEN
[00:08:55] SUCCUMBED BY BUMPER STICKER KIND OF