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20260920 200000 UTC
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[00:00:23] Hello, my name is Maryana Trochashnikova, this is the program "A Person
[00:00:27] Has the Right," which can be listened to and watched. You are on the air of Radio Liberty and
[00:00:31] the Current Time TV channel. Today's
[00:00:33] issue:
[00:00:38] Extradition is worse than death. Why
[00:00:40] Kazakhstan has become an unsafe country for political
[00:00:44] emigrants from Russia. An epidemic of denunciations, how
[00:00:47] new Russian laws help settle scores
[00:00:51] and eliminate competitors. Virtual conflict, real
[00:00:55] verdict. A Russian court for the first time sentenced
[00:00:58] to a long term for bullying
[00:01:00] on the Internet.
[00:01:05] We will talk about this in more detail during the next hour, but first,
[00:01:08] let's see what else is being discussed in Russia this week by
[00:01:11] human rights activists, lawyers, and civil
[00:01:14] activists.
[00:01:18] The Supreme Court of the Komi Republic sentenced
[00:01:21] philosopher Nikolai Zyuzin to seven years in prison for treason. According to the
[00:01:24] investigation, in February 2022,
[00:01:27] Zyuzin started a project that...
[00:02:00] Since the beginning of the war in Ukraine, Zyuzin moved to Canada, but periodically
[00:02:03] came to Russia. In June 2025,
[00:02:07] he was arrested. 8.5 years in prison. The Pskov
[00:02:10] court sentenced a citizen of Ukraine for assisting
[00:02:14] the enemy in activities knowingly directed against the security
[00:02:17] of Russia. Mediazona notes that this is the first known case
[00:02:21] under this article. The investigation claims that the defendant transferred
[00:02:25] money to funds supporting the Ukrainian Armed Forces. The name
[00:02:28] of the convicted person was not disclosed by the court's press service. According to Mediazona,
[00:02:32] this is 26-year-old Anton Demidenko, arrested in July
[00:02:35] 2025. The article on assisting
[00:02:38] the enemy in activities knowingly directed against the security
[00:02:42] of Russia appeared in the Criminal Code at the end of
[00:02:45] 2024. It provides for responsibility for
[00:02:48] foreigners and stateless persons for providing
[00:02:51] financial, consulting, and other types of assistance
[00:02:55] to a foreign state, international or foreign
[00:02:57] organization, directly. The second
[00:03:52] accusation concerned ties with the organization Black Army,
[00:03:55] which, according to the investigation, is a Tuvan branch.
[00:04:10] Igor Krainov received compensation of 350,000
[00:04:14] rubles for being beaten by drug control officers 7
[00:04:17] years ago, reports the Team Against Torture. In
[00:04:20] 2019, Krainov was stopped on his way to work by two men in
[00:04:24] plain clothes, who identified themselves as police officers. He did not believe them
[00:04:28] and started to run away.
[00:04:30] They beat him and planted a narcotic substance in his jeans
[00:04:33] pocket, and then took him to the police station. There, in the presence
[00:04:37] of witnesses, they took a bag of drugs from his pocket and opened
[00:04:40] a criminal case. The case was later dropped. In
[00:04:43] 2022, the police officers were sentenced to real
[00:04:46] prison terms for assault and illegal drug
[00:04:49] possession. In May 2026, the court
[00:04:52] awarded Krainov 100,000 rubles in compensation for
[00:04:56] illegal criminal prosecution. In
[00:04:59] samples of one. In the Syrian vaccine Multikan-8 for dogs,
[00:05:02] seized in the Yaroslavl region, a live virus of
[00:05:05] Aujeszky's disease or pseudorabies was found. Thus,
[00:05:09] a causal link has been confirmed between.
[00:05:52] Leaving Russia does not mean being safe. According to
[00:05:55] the human rights project "Go Forest," by March of this year, at least
[00:05:59] 11 Russians were denied asylum in
[00:06:02] Kazakhstan, some of whom have already been sent back to Russia,
[00:06:06] where the police and FSB were waiting for them. Now under
[00:06:09] threat of extradition from Kazakhstan is a Chechen.
[00:06:13] He says that in Russia he will be killed, but the
[00:06:17] Kazakh authorities denied him asylum. In the same
[00:06:20] detention center, former Navalny staff volunteer
[00:06:23] Yulia Yemelyanova awaits a decision. Her asylum hearing
[00:06:26] is scheduled for late
[00:06:29] September.
[00:06:32] On September 10, the Court of Cassation of Kazakhstan finally denied
[00:06:36] asylum to Chechen activist Mansur Mavlaev. His
[00:06:39] lawyer, Vadim Drazdov, says that now the probability of extradition to
[00:06:43] Russia has significantly increased. Kazakhstan is currently withholding extradition due to the demands of the UN Committee
[00:06:46] on Human Rights not to
[00:06:50] hand over Mavlaev while his complaint is being considered, but
[00:06:53] there are no guarantees that this demand will be fulfilled. Five days
[00:06:57] after the court hearing, Mavlaev tried to commit suicide in Almaty pre-trial detention center. The
[00:07:00] Russian Anti-War Committee reported that they managed to
[00:07:04] help him and his life is not in danger. In a note, he wrote: "Forgive me, I
[00:07:08] am tired of injustice, neither the court nor the prosecutor's office hears us."
[00:07:12] He asked to save Yulia Yemelyanova, a former
[00:07:16] Navalny staff volunteer, who is in the same
[00:07:19] detention center, from extradition. Human rights activists stood up for Mavlaev. He himself appealed to
[00:07:23] Kazakh President Tokayev and the UN Secretary General with the words: "I
[00:07:27] am asking for my life," but no public
[00:07:30] response followed. Officially, Russia demands Mavlaev's extradition in an extortion
[00:07:33] case. According to the investigation, he demanded
[00:07:36] 50,000 rubles, threatening to disseminate someone else's intimate
[00:07:40] video. Mavlaev denies these accusations. According to
[00:07:43] opposition activists, there is also a case of financing
[00:07:46] extremism. They claim that operatives themselves transferred money from
[00:07:50] Mavlaev's phone to a crypto wallet of a channel
[00:07:53] banned in Russia. Mavlaev himself links the persecution
[00:07:56] to the fact that he transmitted information to opposition Chechen channels about
[00:08:00] abductions, torture, and fabricated cases. In
[00:08:03] 2020, he was arrested and, according to his lawyer,
[00:08:06] investigators offered him to choose what to confess to,
[00:08:10] possession of drugs or weapons. He received 2
[00:08:13] years. After early release, Mavlaev left
[00:08:17] Chechnya for Moscow, but in August twenty-second year, according to his lawyer,
[00:08:20] he was kidnapped by Kadyrovtsy and taken to an illegal prison in
[00:08:23] Chechnya, where he was beaten and tortured for 10 days. Mavlaev
[00:08:27] managed to escape to Kyrgyzstan, where he was detained for illegal border
[00:08:31] crossing, sentenced to six months in prison, and was about to be
[00:08:34] deported to Russia. On the day of deportation, he jumped out of the car
[00:08:38] while it was moving and escaped again. Now to Kazakhstan. In Almaty, he spent a year and a half
[00:08:42] renting a room under a false name and working as a trainer, but he
[00:08:45] was found. Since May last year, he has been in a pre-trial detention center. The General Prosecutor's Office
[00:08:49] of Kazakhstan agreed to extradite him to Russia. In February, the Supreme Court
[00:08:52] of Kazakhstan suspended the extradition until the asylum issue was resolved.
[00:08:56] Now asylum has been finally denied, and his arrest has been extended until
[00:09:00] January 13, 2027. Mavlaev says directly:
[00:09:04] if he is extradited, he will be killed. And if he is not killed,
[00:09:07] he will be imprisoned, as happened, for example, with
[00:09:09] 25-year-old Alexander Kachkurkin, who, according to
[00:09:13] human rights activists, left Russia for political reasons, and
[00:09:16] on January 29, Kazakhstan deported him to his homeland. The reason
[00:09:20] was allegedly crossing the road in the wrong place and
[00:09:23] smoking hookah indoors. The court issued the
[00:09:26] expulsion in a few hours. In Moscow,
[00:09:29] Kachkurkin was detained and sent to Lefortovo, accused of
[00:09:32] treason due to money transfers to Ukraine. Another
[00:09:36] case is related to Semyon Bazhukov, who
[00:09:38] deserted from the Russian army and sought asylum in Kazakhstan. In
[00:09:42] December 2025, he was detained by Kazakh police and
[00:09:46] handed over to the Russian military, he escaped, but soon he was found by
[00:09:49] Kazakh police and handed over again to the Russian
[00:09:52] military. And finally, Yulia Yemelyanova, for whom Mavlaev is asking,
[00:09:56] she was a volunteer of Navalny's headquarters in St. Petersburg and
[00:10:00] after leaving Russia helped political prisoners. On August
[00:10:04] 31st of last year, she was detained during a layover in
[00:10:07] Almaty on a Russian wanted list. Yemelyanova is accused
[00:10:10] of stealing a phone from a taxi in 2021. Human rights activists
[00:10:14] point to irregularities in the case. It was opened only a
[00:10:18] month after the alleged theft, and Yemelyanova's phone was first
[00:10:22] shown already at the police station. General Prosecutor.
[00:10:35] For a year she has been in the Almaty pre-trial detention center. On September 24, her appeal
[00:10:38] will be heard in the Court of Cassation. If it
[00:10:41] denies, Yemelyanova will be in the same situation as Mavlaev,
[00:10:45] with asylum denied and extradition to
[00:10:48] Russia agreed upon.
[00:10:53] And here's what about the history.
[00:11:25] extradition, Mansour's fate will undoubtedly be
[00:11:28] difficult, there are several developments in
[00:11:32] events, the first is undoubtedly his
[00:11:34] murder, immediately or after some
[00:11:38] time, he may be supported for
[00:11:40] appearances, the famous Chechen ombudsman
[00:11:44] Mansour Saltaev
[00:11:46] may come
[00:11:48] to talk to him on video, as he likes to
[00:11:51] do, maybe Mansour will be...
[00:11:55] forced to repent for his
[00:11:56] actions,
[00:11:59] mm and he will record, so to speak, an apology on
[00:12:03] camera, and that will be the end of it, at some point
[00:12:07] Mansour will simply disappear. The second option is that he may repeat
[00:12:10] the fate of Zarema Musaeva, that is, he will become
[00:12:13] a hostage in his own homeland, and
[00:12:16] since he still has an article hanging over him, albeit
[00:12:20] entirely fabricated, it still exists,
[00:12:23] mm, therefore.
[00:12:55] and the first time he attempted it while in pre-trial detention, he repeated
[00:12:59] it already in the hospital during hospitalization,
[00:13:02] trying to cut his carotid artery with a knife,
[00:13:06] now his condition is certainly not life-threatening,
[00:13:10] he has received all necessary assistance,
[00:13:13] but the very fact that it is easier
[00:13:17] for him to commit suicide
[00:13:19] than to end up in the country that is requesting him,
[00:13:23] indicates that his fate there
[00:13:26] is much worse than suicide. Regarding further
[00:13:29] actions, what are we hoping for? According to
[00:13:32] Kazakh law, all avenues for appeal have been exhausted. Mansour, as was previously
[00:13:36] known, was denied final refugee
[00:13:39] status on September 10. According to Kazakh law, the Supreme Court can only
[00:13:43] be appealed to in special
[00:13:46] cases. The Supreme Court will review
[00:13:49] it, not a given that it will review it. Otherwise, all
[00:13:53] hope lies solely with the temporary UN measures, which are still in effect, and public
[00:13:56] pressure, meaning pressure from human
[00:14:00] rights activists, journalists, organizations, European
[00:14:04] Union countries, and other states.
[00:14:06] And it's possible that theoretically some
[00:14:10] negotiations with third countries are taking place
[00:14:12] behind closed doors, a classic practice in similar
[00:14:16] cases of extradition
[00:14:19] of activists and political refugees,
[00:14:23] but all this is behind the scenes and...
[00:14:55] the future fate of activists who leave Russia
[00:14:59] and end up
[00:15:01] there.
[00:15:05] This is the program "Man Has the Right." My name is Maryana Tarocheshnikova. Connecting
[00:15:09] with our studio is Margarita Kuchusheva, a lawyer for the Consul Project and the Russian Anti-War Committee.
[00:15:12] Margarita, hello. Hello.
[00:15:15] Thank you very much for the invitation. Thank you for
[00:15:19] agreeing to
[00:15:22] clarify what Russians should do
[00:15:25] who are trying to seek asylum in other countries and do not find it for
[00:15:29] some reasons. Please tell me, what will happen
[00:15:32] now with Mansour Mavlaev, what are his
[00:15:35] options?
[00:16:07] if they were simply denied asylum, there would possibly be
[00:16:11] expulsion, they could leave the country and
[00:16:14] come to a third safe country,
[00:16:17] relocate, get humanitarian visas, or
[00:16:20] use similar mechanisms. In the case
[00:16:23] of extradition, this path is completely closed to them, because
[00:16:27] the extradition will be directly under escort to the Russian
[00:16:30] Federation, where they will be immediately arrested, and the fabricated
[00:16:34] criminal cases, in our opinion, that exist
[00:16:37] against them will begin to be considered. Unfortunately, from the moment of the refusal
[00:16:41] of the cassation court, extradition can
[00:16:44] be carried out at any moment. In Mansour's case, there are
[00:16:48] urgent UN measures, but we don't know if Kazakhstan
[00:16:52] will comply with them.
[00:16:55] And it is possible to file an appeal with the
[00:16:58] Supreme Court.
[00:17:01] The chances of the case being heard are quite small, but still this
[00:17:04] appeal was filed. In Yulia's case, after
[00:17:08] her court on September 24, we will also file
[00:17:11] with the Supreme Court, because we have very little hope for cassation,
[00:17:15] as we see that these are more political courts, not
[00:17:18] legal ones. And it is also possible to file with the constitutional
[00:17:21] court, but filing with neither the constitutional
[00:17:25] court nor the Supreme Court of the Republic of Kazakhstan stops
[00:17:28] extradition. That is, just as they wait for a decision, while they
[00:17:32] wait for whether the court will consider it, they can be taken at any
[00:17:36] moment by the transport prosecutor and handed over to the Russian
[00:17:39] Federation. That is, largely speaking, it
[00:17:43] now depends, well, regarding the two people, Mavsar
[00:17:46] Mavlaev and Yulia Yemelyanova, it depends on
[00:17:50] the goodwill of the Kazakh authorities. That is,
[00:17:54] if they want to somehow
[00:17:57] support them themselves, I don't know, find new
[00:18:00] ways to solve the
[00:18:04] issue, then they will support them. If not, they will hand them over to Russia.
[00:18:38] and any other arguments. That is, legally, we see that
[00:18:41] here, most likely, the courts simply received some kind of instruction and
[00:18:45] they are acting in accordance with
[00:18:48] some political decision that was made by the Republic
[00:18:51] of Kazakhstan. Will politicians actively interfere
[00:18:55] and answer
[00:18:58] for their actions? I believe that they should, at least,
[00:19:02] the President of the Republic, as the guarantor
[00:19:05] of the constitution, can somehow intervene in
[00:19:08] the process, just like other
[00:19:11] politicians, especially since the pressure on Kazakhstan is unprecedented now,
[00:19:15] this is not only special UN measures, also
[00:19:19] PACE requested, international observers attend
[00:19:22] court hearings, embassy representatives attend, as if
[00:19:25] in general, political pressure on Kazakhstan is now unprecedented,
[00:19:29] why they are so stubborn for these two people, we
[00:19:32] don't know, well, it's clear, that is, they are basically now
[00:19:36] choosing between, let's say, the European community
[00:19:39] and Russia, that is, whom,
[00:19:43] European, international, tell me, but are these two
[00:19:46] stories rather an exception, or
[00:19:49] is this already a demonstration of some trend
[00:19:52] of how the authorities of countries belonging to
[00:19:56] the CIS, for example, treat
[00:19:59] political immigrants from
[00:20:02] Russia, especially if there are some cases
[00:20:06] opened against them in Russia? Unfortunately, it seems to us that this is a trend, because
[00:20:09] we saw the case of Semyon Bazhukov, I don't
[00:20:13] remember if I pronounced it correctly, and there was
[00:20:16] another person who were extradited directly, completely in
[00:20:20] violation of all existing procedures,
[00:20:23] laws, and so on, there about applying for asylum, extradition,
[00:20:27] and we see that Kazakhstan is becoming absolutely unsafe for people who
[00:20:31] are subject to criminal prosecution, because the court refuses to consider any
[00:20:35] arguments in favor of the fact that the case was...
[00:21:20] to Armenia, to Georgia, to Uzbekistan, to
[00:21:24] Kyrgyzstan, to other CIS countries, where you can enter
[00:21:27] without a visa, because many people left and chose Kazakhstan,
[00:21:31] among other reasons, simply because you can enter with a
[00:21:34] foreign passport without a visa. My
[00:21:38] assessment, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, most likely,
[00:21:41] is a more unsafe country, especially if there is a criminal
[00:21:44] case, but Armenia and Georgia are very different countries, just
[00:21:48] 5 minutes before...
[00:21:54] the full-scale invasion, he received international
[00:21:57] protection in Georgia, the very first this
[00:22:00] unprecedented case, if that is indeed the case, I will be very
[00:22:03] glad, but in Georgia, extradition is currently ruled out,
[00:22:07] and Armenia has direct ties and
[00:22:10] obligations for extradition to the territory of the Russian Federation,
[00:22:14] but it does not actively comply with them, and many
[00:22:17] politicians came out with exactly this...
[00:22:50] and is friends with Russia, how much
[00:22:53] does the situation differ, is it still possible to try to
[00:22:57] go there to get asylum specifically?
[00:23:00] It's possible to try, but unfortunately, with the adoption of the new
[00:23:04] migration pact, which is called Dublin-2,
[00:23:07] that's what they nicknamed it,
[00:23:10] it's becoming much harder. That is, the issue of border crossing,
[00:23:14] obtaining visas in order to legally cross the
[00:23:17] EU border. All this
[00:23:21] is a big obstacle to
[00:23:24] relocating and applying for asylum.
[00:23:27] Also, visa-free countries like Serbia and Montenegro still
[00:23:31] require visa-free entry, leaving, and coming back.
[00:23:34] You either have to legalize yourself through other
[00:23:37] means, either through sole proprietorship or through a residence permit, or
[00:23:41] through some investments, which is not accessible to everyone. As for
[00:23:45] political asylum, it is still
[00:23:48] issued in Europe, meaning it's not like
[00:23:52] everyone is denied, with the exception of Finland, where we have a big problem
[00:23:55] now, where they have raised the bar too high, meaning people who have
[00:23:59] obvious risks, but without a criminal case,
[00:24:02] Finland often considers that
[00:24:05] it is unsafe there, for example, can you give
[00:24:08] some examples, well, when you talk about real
[00:24:12] risks, we had the Belov family, for example, who donated
[00:24:15] directly to the Ukrainian Armed Forces, we all understand that this is a huge
[00:24:19] criminal...
[00:25:20] recognized that there are risks in Russia, but we will not take them in,
[00:25:23] we will send you to some other third country. As for the
[00:25:27] EU, they often give time to voluntarily leave
[00:25:31] the territory. Often it happens that they can
[00:25:35] also impose a ban on entry for a certain
[00:25:38] period of time, from three to five years, but
[00:25:42] they give a chance to leave the country. In case this is
[00:25:46] impossible, for example, an expired passport or completely...
[00:26:33] very often a lot of information is stored there,
[00:26:37] everyone without exception who went through this deportation mechanism, told us how both from the USA and from
[00:26:40] Lithuania, they undergo
[00:26:43] filtering, there men of military age receive
[00:26:46] subpoenas, they ask for a long time where you were, what you did,
[00:26:50] what you did on the territory, they even google names, if a person was
[00:26:53] public, somehow expressed their
[00:26:57] position, they can immediately present this to them,
[00:27:00] mm, this is the
[00:27:02] worst-case scenario, uh-huh,
[00:27:05] tell me, in your observations, which groups
[00:27:08] of Russians are most often now in the
[00:27:12] risk zone
[00:27:14] of deportation from countries where they are seeking
[00:27:18] asylum, and what will mainly
[00:27:21] affect the outcome of these asylum cases
[00:27:24] for Russians? From the very beginning, when the
[00:27:28] first wave started, there were many asylum cases that
[00:27:31] were either poorly filed or lacked sufficient
[00:27:35] circumstances. Roughly speaking, a person fled from mobilization, received a
[00:27:38] mobilization order, listened to someone smart on YouTube who told him
[00:27:42] to burn it, eat it, destroy it. He did so,
[00:27:46] arrived and said: "I'm mobilized, but I don't have any proof." They then
[00:27:49] start living in the country and somehow become active,
[00:27:53] do something, attend rallies, donate, and so on. But the court still
[00:27:56] considers the case based on mobilization and looks, we have
[00:27:59] a mobilized person, but he doesn't have a summons, so it's
[00:28:02] not interesting what you do once you are safe.
[00:28:06] These cases that are currently being tried at the level of
[00:28:10] the administrative supreme court, there is
[00:28:13] indeed a big problem and big risks that they will have to either re-apply
[00:28:17] for documents or somehow solve their
[00:28:20] situation in another way. Also, there were cases when a person
[00:28:23] left, applied for asylum, he had some
[00:28:26] case, criminal prosecution began
[00:28:30] immediately after.
[00:28:33] Roughly speaking, he donated or
[00:28:36] some extremist statements were found, and he got
[00:28:39] a criminal case. And this must be reported immediately, of course, in
[00:28:43] order for the court to consider all circumstances, but sometimes this is simply not
[00:28:47] possible. Therefore, these,
[00:28:49] most likely, activists, this group of people, are in
[00:28:53] the highest risk group.
[00:28:56] How easy is it for a person in this situation to find
[00:29:00] some help? And
[00:29:03] in all countries of origin, so to speak,
[00:29:06] are there human rights defenders, human rights
[00:29:09] groups that can help? Well, as I understand, a
[00:29:13] migration lawyer can cost
[00:29:16] a decent amount of money, right? Especially in the US, we see
[00:29:20] fundraisers opening up,
[00:29:23] all sorts of collections for lawyers, for
[00:29:26] bond.
[00:29:28] Many lawyers can be appointed by the state in
[00:29:31] EU countries. But they do not have
[00:29:34] the authority, for example, to file with the ECHR, if that is the last
[00:29:37] resort, or they can only provide assistance once,
[00:29:41] and a second time, when you re-apply or something happened,
[00:29:45] it may be beyond their authority,
[00:29:48] in different ways. Here,
[00:29:51] a large
[00:29:53] part is also played by NGOs that protect Russians, for example, like
[00:29:57] the Consul of the Anti-War Committee, which is ready to help.
[00:30:01] a lawyer and write
[00:30:04] a legal opinion, and
[00:30:07] if something needs to be picked up in the country, somehow help provide, provide
[00:30:11] support, and there are several such NGOs, like ours,
[00:30:14] and we always tell people to please contact us, we
[00:30:18] will try to help you. Yes, thank you very much for your
[00:30:21] explanation, Margarita Kutyusheva, lawyer for the Consul
[00:30:25] Project of the Anti-War Committee of Russia, was connected to the "Man Has the Right" program.
[00:30:28] spoke with an acquaintance via
[00:30:33] video call, used the wrong emoji in a building chat,
[00:30:36] argued with a neighbor at the dacha. All of this in Russia can now
[00:30:40] become a reason for a denunciation. Your words and
[00:30:43] seemingly harmless actions can lead to a fine
[00:30:47] or even a prison sentence. The so-called
[00:30:50] "epidemic of denunciations" in Russia, which erupted after
[00:30:53] the start of the war with Ukraine, is drawing attention not only from
[00:30:57] human rights activists.