DR1 — broadcast
20260915 080000 UTC
530 transcript segments
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[00:00:00] against them, how do you think they would have reacted? I won't speculate
[00:00:03] on that, but I don't think we should compare ourselves to Russia when we talk about how we should
[00:00:06] react to provocations and to other things. The
[00:00:09] Russian way of acting is not a role model in my eyes. Now I want to be allowed
[00:00:13] to go in, now comes, and that was
[00:00:17] I think will be exciting to try to get an answer to is Anne Valentina Bertelsen from SF, and the next one to
[00:00:20] come is Enger Strøjberg, who is on her way now for uh
[00:00:24] the Denmark Democrats,
[00:00:26] and we are standing here because in a little while Jeppe
[00:00:30] Brugs will hold this briefing for the defense spokespersons in
[00:00:32] Parliament, who will go in and hear about the incident that happened late last
[00:00:36] night, where a Danish helicopter was shot at with a kind
[00:00:39] of distress flare by a Russian ship that it was
[00:00:43] photographing. But we are waiting for Enger Støjberg, she
[00:00:46] is stuck, she is stuck, as I said, in
[00:00:49] the pedestrian crossing over there, and it is in a little while that Jeppe
[00:00:52] Bros will brief, and I guess
[00:00:55] and expect that this is just the first of many meetings that will be in
[00:00:59] around Christiansborg and around the Ministry of Defense today, where
[00:01:03] we will discuss this incident that happened last night and
[00:01:06] its consequences. We also know that the Russian ambassador will
[00:01:10] be summoned for a meeting at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. This is not the
[00:01:14] first time, we are still waiting to get an interview with Frederiksen and with
[00:01:17] Lars Lykke Rasmussen. But uh, Inger
[00:01:21] Storyberg, she is on her way in a little while, we are standing in a very busy intersection here in front of
[00:01:24] the Ministry of Defense. If you take the camera over, you can see, the
[00:01:27] Parliament is right here behind us, and this is where
[00:01:30] all the spokespersons come from, we can see Markus Knut, he
[00:01:33] comes behind Inger Støjberg, that is the Conservatives, and now Inger Støjberg comes,
[00:01:37] so let's hear what she, what she has to
[00:01:39] say? Inger Storyberg, a further
[00:01:43] escalation tonight of the relationship between Denmark and Russia, what do you think about that? Well,
[00:01:47] it's serious, and therefore it's also absolutely
[00:01:50] right that the government summons
[00:01:54] the ambassador, the Russian ambassador for a meeting, so I fully support that, but at some
[00:01:57] point enough is enough in relation to what
[00:02:00] they can allow themselves. Yes, yes, and I completely agree, but there are also many more
[00:02:03] tools in the toolbox, and what is
[00:02:05] it? That was all we managed to get
[00:02:09] from Inger Støjberg and Poland yesterday, uh, so
[00:02:13] the important thing for me here is to support the government's line, but
[00:02:17] also emphasize that we need to engage in dialogue with our NATO allies, so that they
[00:02:21] can also condemn this, and why is the government's line the right one? We see a
[00:02:24] Russia, the Prime Minister also says, that goes further and
[00:02:27] further, why shouldn't it have a harsher
[00:02:32] response? that the government is proposing here, because it is Russia that is escalating here, it is Russia that is the aggressive party, and we do not
[00:02:35] want a military conflict with Russia, at the same time we do not want to look the other
[00:02:39] way and just let ourselves be run over, and the important thing
[00:02:43] here is to keep calm, but also to be in close close dialogue with our
[00:02:46] NATO ally, so that we send a strong signal to Russia that we
[00:02:49] condemn this, and our NATO ally does too, but dialogue with
[00:02:53] Russia too, who will be summoned for a meeting later today, the Russian
[00:02:56] Ministry of Foreign Affairs, it's just talk, isn't it, how do you think they react to that in
[00:03:00] Russia? No, Russia is watching very very closely exactly how we react
[00:03:04] to these incidents, just as they are watching
[00:03:06] between NATO countries and Russia, because then we're in what happened at the border between Ukraine and Poland,
[00:03:09] and the most important thing is that we stick together, but also that we do not let ourselves be provoked and
[00:03:13] come with an unnecessary response that then
[00:03:16] escalates, that escalates further, so it's a balancing act, I know
[00:03:20] it can sound like words, but words are
[00:03:22] something similar, so we can't completely panic important, diplomacy is important here, and the cornerstone is that we stick
[00:03:25] together with our allies, we often hear that Russia only understands
[00:03:28] strength, yes, uh. from the West, from NATO, do we
[00:03:32] really show that with the way we react here? Well, the way we show strength is that
[00:03:35] we rearm our defense as quickly as possible, we have a
[00:03:39] battalion stationed in Latvia, we are investing massively
[00:03:42] in everything from planes to frigates, and that's how we show
[00:03:46] strength, but right now it's also important to keep a cool head and not
[00:03:49] overreact with an unnecessary escalation on the other side towards
[00:03:52] Russia, but maintain the line, that is, if we stick together in NATO about
[00:03:56] this, then we have to run in,
[00:03:59] thank you. Yes, we are therefore moving back and forth here from
[00:04:03] the studio and then to the Ministry of Defense, where we talk to
[00:04:06] various politicians, these are members of
[00:04:09] the defense committee who are on their way to the Minister of Defense Jeppe
[00:04:13] Bros for a briefing, so that's
[00:04:16] why we are a bit back and forth, so apologize, hope that
[00:04:20] everyone can follow, and it is because after the incident yesterday where a
[00:04:23] Russian frigate uh fired
[00:04:26] signal flares at a Danish helicopter, this has, uh, made
[00:04:30] politicians react, we are of course also trying to get a
[00:04:34] comment from the Russian embassy, we would like to speak to the Russian
[00:04:37] ambassador, Vladimir Barbin, it's not always
[00:04:41] easy, I know that at least for you, Niels Fastrup, uh, Mads
[00:04:44] Korsager, the politicians here talk about, uh, we must stick
[00:04:48] together, this is the right thing to do, to summon the Russian
[00:04:51] ambassador, call him for a conversation, then they get
[00:04:55] the question, is that even enough, what kind
[00:04:58] of balancing act is going
[00:05:01] on right now? It's a balancing act that's about
[00:05:04] signaling in a relatively easy-to-understand way
[00:05:08] that, yes, we understand what you're doing in Russia, but we won't
[00:05:11] accept it. And then it must also happen in a way that doesn't
[00:05:15] seem unnecessarily escalatory, so Denmark and NATO don't want to be accused of
[00:05:19] escalating a potential conflict, so you could say this
[00:05:22] is a diplomatic tightrope walk
[00:05:26] we're seeing unfold, and then they're going to talk to the
[00:05:29] Minister of Defense here at, well, actually it was at 10 o'clock, we
[00:05:33] can also see all the politicians who are now on their way down from
[00:05:36] Christiansborg, which is on the other side of the street, you could say, and then you go
[00:05:40] down to the Ministry of Defense. And that's why all the journalists, or many
[00:05:44] journalists from many different media outlets, are standing outside to get
[00:05:48] a political reaction.
[00:05:51] The incident yesterday, did it surprise you, was it a surprise that
[00:05:55] uh, we also see that kind of thing? Well, of course,
[00:05:58] when something like that happens and you get the news, it's always surprising, because
[00:06:02] these are violent things that are happening, but if we look at the
[00:06:06] context of what is happening right now in the Baltic Sea and the Danish straits, among other things,
[00:06:09] concerning the Russian shadow fleet, and how the Russian
[00:06:13] fleet is currently conducting a large operation in our waters to deter
[00:06:17] us from intervening against the shadow fleet, then it's perhaps not
[00:06:21] so surprising, because we have seen an escalation in
[00:06:24] the Baltic Sea and actually also in the Danish waters and in the English
[00:06:28] Channel over the last year to
[00:06:30] year and a half.
[00:06:33] And Mads Kors, are the options for action
[00:06:36] that politicians have in relation to these things, because one can
[00:06:40] sit at home and think, well. to try to get or
[00:06:44] summon the Russian ambassador for a
[00:06:47] conversation, honestly, what will that change? Well, that,
[00:06:51] that is probably not what will make Russia change its
[00:06:54] behavior pattern at least, I mean, if something like that is to be fought, then it's something that
[00:06:57] one would like to see happen collectively, I mean, either in the NATO alliance or the
[00:07:01] common European, and there we can see wave
[00:07:05] after wave of sanctions and reactions that have rolled over Russia
[00:07:09] since February 2022, and that hasn't really
[00:07:12] had much effect, so the question is whether
[00:07:15] this will work this time, but we can at least see a form
[00:07:18] of, one could perhaps call it a show of strength, which is ongoing, where
[00:07:22] Russia slowly but surely tries to push the boundaries in terms of what it can
[00:07:26] get away with, drones that hit a few hundred meters from
[00:07:30] the Polish border crossing and attempts at
[00:07:33] assassinations and sabotage on NATO territory and such, whether
[00:07:36] this should be seen in that context, or whether it's actually just, in
[00:07:40] inverted commas, a nervous lookout post on the
[00:07:43] Russian ship, and now we go in to Charlotte Bakke Hansen,
[00:07:46] defense spokesperson for Moderates, good evening, how worried
[00:07:49] are you as a moderate defense spokesperson? I think
[00:07:52] this is a gross
[00:07:55] provocation from Russia, we can constantly see that
[00:07:59] they are pushing the boundaries. I
[00:08:03] think Simon might just say
[00:08:06] a little, no, that's fine, uh, now we're going in to
[00:08:09] hear what they know in here, right, it's our Danish
[00:08:12] soldiers on board, it's their safety, uh, we
[00:08:16] must protect them, but again, as I
[00:08:19] said before, can it be enough, is it enough to just summon a
[00:08:23] Russian ambassador? I think it's a wise move
[00:08:27] to just call him in for a conversation, as Lykke does, and
[00:08:31] just explain to him that this is, it's actually
[00:08:35] uh, way over the line, I mean, it's our
[00:08:38] soldiers' safety that's at stake, now we need to go in and hear
[00:08:42] what the minister has to say, but when is enough? Now
[00:08:46] we need to go in and hear what the minister has to say, and then I think we'll know more when we come out
[00:08:50] of there.
[00:08:54] Yes, that was what Charlotte, Charlotte Bakke Hansen,
[00:08:58] one of the members of the Defense
[00:09:02] Committee, who is going in to be briefed by Defense Minister Jeppe
[00:09:05] Brus, sounded like. When one wakes up in the morning to yet another news
[00:09:09] story about this happening, this is the way the Russians
[00:09:13] are moving, then I hear from many who get a stomach ache, and it's
[00:09:17] actually more and more stomach aches, worried or thinking, oh,
[00:09:20] and then there are also some who think, are we exaggerating
[00:09:24] this too much, what's your assessment, Mads?
[00:09:27] Well, there, one must, one must be painfully
[00:09:31] aware that this is a long way from
[00:09:34] actual combat, meaning there is a way to
[00:09:38] communicate and interact with each other at
[00:09:41] sea, even between warships, i.e.,
[00:09:44] naval vessels, and signaling is part of
[00:09:47] that. Normally, one would say, well, something like this is handled by calling up on
[00:09:51] VHF channel 16, for example, one can also flash lights at
[00:09:55] each other, there are special flashing lights on the bridge of
[00:09:58] ships, there are many ways to do it. What
[00:10:01] Russia is doing here is that they, you could say, skip some
[00:10:04] communication steps, and it's violent to start shooting
[00:10:08] such professional military signal flares
[00:10:12] at each other, because it's dangerous if they hit the helicopter, but we are
[00:10:16] still a long way from a regular combat action, however, it is
[00:10:19] interesting, because it is such an escalation step,
[00:10:23] they simply skip that, but
[00:10:25] what would be wrong? There were many ways in which the Russian
[00:10:29] frigate could say: keep your distance, we don't like what you are doing, so you could
[00:10:33] say, this is very characteristic of what is happening in the Baltic Sea right now and all
[00:10:36] sorts of other places, as my good colleague Nils Fastrup says,
[00:10:40] that is, one is at odds with each other, but one is not in combat with
[00:10:43] each other. But Niels Fastrup, don't you understand, you work in this area, that when
[00:10:47] you are out reporting about these things, when we then see politicians, even if they actually
[00:10:51] remain relatively calm and articulate, and we stand together, it is important
[00:10:54] to see a clear message, but there are some people out there who are getting
[00:10:58] uneasy? Yes, yes, but I also think the situation is highly
[00:11:01] unusual, I mean, if we had asked ourselves five years ago, before all this
[00:11:05] started, if we could imagine in five years that this would happen, or and all the things
[00:11:09] that are happening right now could happen, then we would have said no, I mean, now it's happening a bit
[00:11:13] gradually, and in that way we get used to it, for better or worse, that it
[00:11:17] happens, but it is an extraordinary situation we are
[00:11:21] in, and the, what should one say, intelligence sources
[00:11:24] in Europe and the defense sources I, for example, talk
[00:11:27] to, are surely also talking to, are
[00:11:31] worried about this situation, it does not mean that, that
[00:11:34] hopefully it will not come to outright
[00:11:37] combat, as Mads also talks about, but the risk is
[00:11:41] there, and that is new, I mean, that there is a clear
[00:11:44] risk of war or war-like
[00:11:48] actions in our part of the world, yes, in that way, and it
[00:11:51] is at least a fact that that is how it is, and that is, of course,
[00:11:55] why we are covering this, so we will go to you, Rasmus
[00:11:58] Lindegaard, because you are with a party leader,
[00:12:02] doing a dobr, that's right, I have found the Liberal
[00:12:05] Alliance party chairman Alex Vanopslagh, what do you think is
[00:12:09] the signal the Russians are sending with the incident we
[00:12:13] have now become aware of, that took place yesterday? Well, I mean,
[00:12:17] partly they are constantly testing the limits of what they can get away with, and then I interpret
[00:12:21] it mostly as them trying to send a signal to Denmark that they
[00:12:25] want Denmark not to interfere in any way in what Russia is doing
[00:12:28] in the Baltic Sea, and that's the way Putin's regime
[00:12:32] acts, they want European countries to stay out of the war they are waging in Ukraine, they want
[00:12:36] us to stay out of what is happening in the Baltic Sea, and therefore the most important thing is
[00:12:40] that we don't change our behavior, that the next time there is a Russian
[00:12:43] frigate or similar, well, then we must continue to reconnoiter
[00:12:47] and monitor the area, and in that way show the Russians that we will not be
[00:12:51] intimidated by this, you say we should not be intimidated, but should we put up with
[00:12:55] it? Well, I don't think we do, I mean, we use
[00:12:58] the diplomatic channels that exist, and the most important thing is
[00:13:02] that it doesn't make us change our behavior, we say, well, the next time there are
[00:13:06] Russian activities in the Baltic Sea, well, then we will stay far away, no, it will not mean that we continue to
[00:13:10] show visibility, that we continue our reconnaissance and monitoring of
[00:13:13] areas, and that is actually the most important thing, because what the Russians are trying to do is
[00:13:17] to intimidate us into stopping
[00:13:20] the military operations we are currently conducting. But I am asking if we should continue to put up
[00:13:24] with it, because what do you think it changes that the Ministry of Foreign Affairs
[00:13:28] summons an ambassador for a telling-
[00:13:30] off? Well, I don't delude myself that Putin's
[00:13:34] gangster regime will suddenly become a democratic paragon overnight, not
[00:13:37] even if Lars Løkke himself were to show up personally and give
[00:13:40] him a telling-off, and I also think it's important to
[00:13:43] say that this won't be the last time we experience
[00:13:47] every time and say that now, now, now
[00:13:50] the world is no longer standing, it will not mean that we take a stand
[00:13:53] diplomatically as we do, we cooperate with our European
[00:13:57] colleagues, and most important of all, that we do not allow ourselves to be intimidated, so we
[00:14:00] continue to undertake the things we must undertake, also in relation to monitoring
[00:14:04] activities in the Baltic Sea
[00:14:07] region, and I believe that is the most important thing, one could also retaliate in
[00:14:10] kind?
[00:14:14] Yes, I'm a little unsure how that would happen exactly, but I'm
[00:14:18] convinced that the military is best at assessing when it makes
[00:14:22] sense to resort to a counterattack and when it makes
[00:14:25] sense to do what has been done this time, and I fully trust the professional assessment of
[00:14:29] the people who work in our research, but do you think it changes
[00:14:33] anything, I mean, you also say it probably won't be the last time, I mean,
[00:14:36] what do we achieve by having, what should I say, the conversation
[00:14:40] through diplomatic channels instead of taking
[00:14:43] harsher maneuvers? Well, what we achieve is
[00:14:47] that we send a clear signal, and that's how the world of diplomacy works, it's about summoning the ambassador
[00:14:51] for a conversation. I don't want to sugarcoat it for anyone, that suddenly
[00:14:55] Putin and Russia will become a democratic paragon, but it's
[00:14:59] something we do in diplomacy, and I must emphasize again,
[00:15:03] the goal here from the Russian side is to scare us away from
[00:15:07] supporting Ukraine, scare us away from reconnoitering in the Baltic Sea and scare us away
[00:15:11] from having a military
[00:15:14] presence in and
[00:15:17] around the Baltic Sea, and we should not let ourselves be scared by that, and therefore we must
[00:15:21] keep a cool head and keep doing our
[00:15:25] job, so to speak, but I understand that we should not let ourselves be
[00:15:28] scared, but should we continue to let ourselves be beaten, that is, continue to let ourselves be
[00:15:32] provoked, continue to accept these
[00:15:35] things, won't there be a limit where one eventually says: now,
[00:15:39] now, we can no longer, what should one say, tolerate and what should one
[00:15:43] say, let ourselves be humiliated anymore. Yes, I also don't know how big a humiliation this
[00:15:47] is, I mean, I think one should also be careful not to blow it completely
[00:15:50] out of proportion, but it is clear that there are a lot of such
[00:15:54] grey areas and what one would call hybrid attacks, and
[00:15:57] there it is at least my expectation that Russia will constantly test the limits, and therefore it makes
[00:16:01] sense that we, within NATO, talk about how we handle
[00:16:05] this type of provocations, how we handle hybrid attacks, also hybrid attacks
[00:16:09] that are more than shooting a flare into the air,
[00:16:12] and then we must collectively find out when it is that there
[00:16:15] is a collective response from NATO, because it is clear that at some
[00:16:19] point one must give a response, but it must happen in cooperation
[00:16:23] with our European counterparts, uh, when
[00:16:26] the Minister of Defense has chosen not, what should one say, to call for a
[00:16:29] collective response from the other NATO countries, is that
[00:16:32] then, what should one say, a correct balance he has found there, do you think? Yes, I
[00:16:36] support both the Minister of Defense and the government
[00:16:40] fully in their handling of this so far, I mean, they have reacted
[00:16:43] promptly, and it is also my expectation that one would continue to reconnoiter in the Baltic Sea
[00:16:47] area, and that is actually the most important thing, because it is what the Russians want us
[00:16:51] to stop doing, thank you, so thank you,
[00:16:54] that was Alex Vanopslagh, and a short while ago, our reporter at
[00:16:58] Christiansborg also caught the political spokesperson for the
[00:17:01] Red-Green Alliance, Pelle Dragsted, who supports
[00:17:04] the government's handling,
[00:17:07] "it is deeply serious, and it is just another in a long series
[00:17:11] of examples that Putin's regime constantly
[00:17:14] pushes the limits and carries out these hybrid or
[00:17:18] hostile attacks in various places in Europe, we have seen it in Lithuania, we have
[00:17:22] seen it with very serious attacks in Germany or failed
[00:17:25] attacks, so this is an escalation from Putin's
[00:17:28] regime, which we must take deeply seriously. Should we try to retaliate in
[00:17:31] kind? Well, we must of course try to avoid
[00:17:35] an escalation, that is very important to us, but at the same time it is also,
[00:17:39] at the same time it is incredibly important that we show that this does not divide Europe, that we stand
[00:17:43] together, because the purpose of this is to weaken Europe's
[00:17:46] support for Ukraine and resistance to Putin's regime, and therefore the
[00:17:50] right answer is to, so to speak, stand firm and strengthen that
[00:17:54] support, but how far do you think we here at home
[00:17:57] should put up with these provocations, because
[00:18:00] uh, does it change anything that the Ministry of Foreign Affairs now
[00:18:04] summons an ambassador for a telling off? Well, those are the
[00:18:07] diplomatic tools we have, it is to summon
[00:18:10] the ambassador, one can also take other steps, I think it is handled wisely and correctly
[00:18:14] by our government, and our Minister of Defense, our Minister of Foreign Affairs, the
[00:18:17] important thing here, do you think it changes anything, well, we can
[00:18:21] only put the pressure on Russia that we already do by being
[00:18:24] one of the countries in Europe that to the highest degree supports Ukraine's
[00:18:28] resistance against the Russian occupation, and we must continue to do so, and
[00:18:31] we must not in any way allow ourselves to be distracted by these Russian
[00:18:34] provocations. You say we can't do anything else, we can do a lot.
[00:18:38] Well, this is always a balance, we don't want a direct war
[00:18:44] a third world war, so it's a balance that we constantly
[00:18:48] have to find, and land
[00:18:51] in the right place, and I believe that the steps the government has
[00:18:55] taken in this case are the right ones, I also think the signals sent by the German
[00:18:58] government in connection with the failed attack we saw there have been right
[00:19:02] and wise, this is a deeply serious situation, the crucial thing now is that
[00:19:06] Europe stands together, and therefore it is of course also frightening that we somewhere,
[00:19:09] most recently with a local election in Germany, see a growing
[00:19:12] support for parties that are connected to Putin's regime.
[00:19:16] Now let's go back to yesterday, to the incident that happened, which has
[00:19:20] so much brought politicians to the forefront today,
[00:19:23] and then we'll give the viewers, all of us, an
[00:19:27] answer to what we actually know has happened, and what we still need answers
[00:19:30] to. So Mads, you start, how, what happened?
[00:19:33] It's a completely routine operation from
[00:19:37] the Danish authorities' side, that they want to, so to speak, keep a physical
[00:19:41] eye on, or at least in some way escort foreign
[00:19:44] state ships that sail, either they have always
[00:19:47] done it, or sorry, they have done it, yes, it happens all the time in
[00:19:51] international waters, itself
[00:19:54] that is, it's a, a, a
[00:19:58] fascinating question, because normally you do it when they
[00:20:01] sail through Danish waters, then you really want to, so to speak, physically
[00:20:04] escort them, follow them through. With the help of
[00:20:08] defense ships, planes, or helicopters. Sometimes,
[00:20:11] there are these small pockets of international waters,
[00:20:15] which are actually quite close to Danish territory, where foreign state ships, in
[00:20:19] this case Russian warships, can lie completely
[00:20:22] legitimately and keep watch, it's such a good central resting place
[00:20:26] where you are allowed to be. There it is desirable for Danish authorities to
[00:20:30] come out and document and keep an eye on what kind of ship it is, uh, what kind
[00:20:34] of instruments it has on board, what class of? all
[00:20:38] such things, so these observation tasks are
[00:20:41] routine, they happen all the time, and who defines these
[00:20:44] pockets again, is this a matter of definition, I mean, you know,
[00:20:48] I'm trying to get in and find out when, uh, from both sides, so when you're lying there in
[00:20:52] such a pocket, is it normal for a
[00:20:55] helicopter to come and take photos?
[00:20:59] Yes, but the situation is
[00:21:03] unusual, and one of the things that
[00:21:07] whether this Russian frigate was in transit, uh,
[00:21:11] on its way in and out of the Baltic Sea, as Russian frigates often are, or was
[00:21:15] it part of the large Russian naval operation that Russia is currently conducting,
[00:21:18] which is about protecting the shadow fleet. If it's the latter, then it could have been a
[00:21:22] frigate that came to have a task, which was to lie in a specific area by
[00:21:26] gasses, or in Danish waters and keep an eye on,
[00:21:29] what what NATO is doing, and if that's the last thing, then
[00:21:33] I think it puts the situation a little differently, so I think there
[00:21:36] are many things at the moment that we need to defend, we also need to find
[00:21:40] out more about this Danish helicopter, how exactly did it fly, how
[00:21:44] is it perceived by the Russians and all that kind of thing, so there are
[00:21:47] many things, by the nature of the case, there's a lot we don't know right now. now, and it's
[00:21:51] also a question of when we will eventually become wiser about
[00:21:54] it. What we see here, it's important to emphasize, it's archive footage, it also
[00:21:58] clearly says so in the corner, but these are pictures of a
[00:22:02] Fenik helicopter, so one like the one that was also involved
[00:22:05] in yesterday's incident, these are pictures from an exercise, so
[00:22:09] uh, describe such a helicopter that comes, we don't know how
[00:22:12] close to the Russian frigate, Mads or what? No, we don't know,
[00:22:16] so uh, we're still waiting to get, you could say, an answer. on how close
[00:22:20] or how far away it was, but but that is a
[00:22:24] helicopter type that was sent out yesterday, so it's one
[00:22:28] of, you could say, the defense's more uh light and also
[00:22:31] older types of helicopters, they are used for
[00:22:34] special operations forces, which is probably what we see, hopping in and out there, and then
[00:22:38] they are also used for the police's action force, uh, sometimes
[00:22:41] they are also used for traffic control, you can be unlucky enough to get a speeding ticket from such
[00:22:45] a one, uh, and then they are also sent out on these
[00:22:48] surveillance tasks, it's such that the defense does
[00:22:52] not feel that they have enough ships, i.e. enough naval ships to send out and
[00:22:55] handle all these things, so they get help from the good colleagues in
[00:22:59] the air force, and it's such people who are sent out on such
[00:23:03] a task, and normally uh, it happens, it happens in that
[00:23:07] way, because in the Danish defense, there are specific orders
[00:23:10] to act de-escalating, i.e. they are sent
[00:23:13] out with a set of orders that deal with: must act
[00:23:16] de-escalating, and that means that you shouldn't play too smart. being too
[00:23:20] provocative and flying in attack profile and pretending and
[00:23:23] all sorts of things, what happened out there in that particular situation,
[00:23:27] we don't know, but we know that they usually approach with
[00:23:31] relative caution, whether they did it here, we don't know,
[00:23:34] uh, and then a signal is shot in the other direction, which is also
[00:23:38] such,
[00:23:40] i.e. an escalating thing to do, because normally
[00:23:44] the Russian ship could have done other things, they could have blinked their lights, they
[00:23:48] could have called on the radio, that... we must understand that, we have
[00:23:51] the Minister of Defense's word for it, so here something is being shot at them, so there
[00:23:55] has been, there has been confrontation before such a
[00:23:58] signal bus, so what, what are the normal reasons
[00:24:01] to fire such a thing? Well, I mean, it's, you could say,
[00:24:05] a part of the escalation or communication ladder, which
[00:24:09] starts with normal communication on the radio,
[00:24:13] uh, you can call up and say, "Keep your
[00:24:15] distance," you can blink with a signal lamp that is close
[00:24:19] by. Manoeuvres, such different things, so when you slowly
[00:24:23] climb up that uh
[00:24:26] escalation ladder, you enter a category called
[00:24:29] warning shots, and warning shots, yes, you can
[00:24:32] actually uh place, I mean, you can place this flare both
[00:24:36] in the category called warning shots, you can also place such a flare under what is
[00:24:40] called visual communication, and that's what's so
[00:24:44] both clever, but also very difficult
[00:24:47] for this situation, because well, was it a warning shot, or was it
[00:24:51] actually just completely innocent communication, so
[00:24:54] uh, so so that makes it difficult to handle,
[00:24:58] and we also need to find out if we get an answer to that, whether the politicians,
[00:25:02] whether the members of the defense committee, who are currently being briefed
[00:25:06] by Minister of Defense Jeppe Brus, whether they will
[00:25:09] become wiser, how much information they have at all, how many of these details,
[00:25:13] we should also hear from the chairman of Venstre and former Minister of Defense
[00:25:17] Troels Lund Poulsen, who also views the matter
[00:25:20] with seriousness, it is first and foremost again an expression
[00:25:24] of Russian aggression and
[00:25:27] cynicism, I must also say, I unfortunately don't think it's
[00:25:30] surprising, but it's very serious what we are seeing, and it also shows what a
[00:25:34] very difficult security policy situation we are in, and I would also like to
[00:25:38] commend the government for taking this as seriously as it does, and also for
[00:25:42] summoning the Russian ambassador for a conversation, because this
[00:25:45] is something that must be taken very, very seriously, what do you think?
[00:25:50] What kind of signal are the Russians sending when they uh
[00:25:53] do as they do? It's a cynical signal, it's an expression of
[00:25:57] Russia being extremely aggressive in terms
[00:26:00] of maintaining their presence around
[00:26:03] the Baltic Sea, and willing to go very, very far, and also
[00:26:07] constantly looking at how to provoke
[00:26:11] potential conflicts, and we must also be very aware of that.
[00:26:15] You say then, you commend the minister's
[00:26:18] response, that is, that the ambassador has now been summoned
[00:26:21] for a conversation at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, what do you think
[00:26:24] that changes? It is to insist on taking the
[00:26:28] diplomatic path, and I think that is absolutely crucial in this
[00:26:31] situation. "We need to show the Russians that we
[00:26:35] will not tolerate the way they behave." On the other hand,
[00:26:38] this is also a balanced
[00:26:41] approach that one must have, uh, I also agree that one should not
[00:26:45] use Article 4 of NATO to make a
[00:26:49] consultation, as some are discussing, one
[00:26:52] should, but this again underlines the importance of,
[00:26:55] the necessity of rearming, strengthening Danish
[00:26:59] defense and getting the capacities in place that
[00:27:02] are missing, because uh, when you see what is happening right now in
[00:27:06] relation to Russia, we can see that Russia is currently producing far
[00:27:10] more weapons than they are using in Ukraine, and if
[00:27:13] you look at that into 2027, what kind of
[00:27:16] scenario can one fear, yes, I think anyone can
[00:27:20] imagine that. Yes, Christina Kurtsen, we just heard from
[00:27:23] Troels Lund Poulsen, who has spent many, many hours in
[00:27:27] the building behind you, the Ministry of Defense, but now
[00:27:30] there is another user in, it is Jeppe. who is now Minister of Defense, who is in the middle of a
[00:27:34] briefing with the defense committee, and how is it going,
[00:27:37] Christina?
[00:27:41] Yes, we simply don't know anything about that, those kinds of
[00:27:44] briefings in the Ministry of Defense here behind
[00:27:47] me, they take place without cell phones
[00:27:50] and that kind of thing being allowed, so we can't, it
[00:27:54] happens for security reasons, so we can't be in contact with anyone
[00:27:57] along the way, so we have to patiently wait for them to come out again
[00:28:01] and maybe tell us. also something about what they have been told, yes, maybe
[00:28:05] we'll get to speak to them, if they can, will they say
[00:28:08] anything, do you also expect us to hear more from the Minister of Defense
[00:28:12] after the meeting?
[00:28:16] I actually don't know, uh, it could very well be, they are well
[00:28:19] aware that there is a great demand for more
[00:28:23] information about what has happened in this situation, but there can
[00:28:27] also easily, when it comes to something like
[00:28:30] this, be things that for
[00:28:33] security reasons one does not want to announce
[00:28:37] further, and we got a reaction from him when
[00:28:41] he went into the ministry for
[00:28:43] the briefing, so I don't actually know if he has more to say when
[00:28:47] he's done briefing the parties.
[00:28:50] Mette Frederiksen, the Prime Minister, we have received a written
[00:28:54] response saying that, unfortunately, this is not surprising
[00:28:58] from the Russian side. What kind of work is going on right now in
[00:29:01] the Prime Minister's
[00:29:02] office?
[00:29:05] Well, the Prime Minister's Office stays very closely
[00:29:09] informed when such things happen, and when there are such
[00:29:12] situations, one can also easily imagine that
[00:29:15] she is in contact with other
[00:29:19] government leaders around Europe,
[00:29:22] uh, but of course we don't know exactly what she's doing, sometimes it also
[00:29:26] happens in such situations that
[00:29:29] the Prime Minister chooses to summon party leaders
[00:29:32] for a briefing, we haven't heard anything about that
[00:29:36] yet, that it should, that it should be planned, but there's no
[00:29:40] doubt that when one is in such a situation, then
[00:29:43] the Prime Minister is also fully
[00:29:47] informed and follows very closely what is happening,
[00:29:51] and then there's the Minister of Foreign Affairs, who has summoned the Russian
[00:29:54] ambassador, Vladimir Babin, for a conversation, we don't
[00:29:58] yet know when, what is happening in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs?
[00:30:02] institution,
[00:30:06] well, it's the same, that you follow very closely, presumably have
[00:30:10] contacts with other countries to
[00:30:13] inform about what has happened, uh, and see and
[00:30:17] hear how they view the situation, and then
[00:30:21] the Russian ambassador will, as I said, have a conversation
[00:30:24] at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, it typically takes place with the Permanent Secretary of the
[00:30:28] Ministry of Foreign Affairs, where it is made clear that this is...
[00:30:33] is completely unacceptable,
[00:30:35] uh, and then one probably also considers, are there other
[00:30:39] things one should do, anything else one can do. And Christine, what kind
[00:30:42] of signal is it to ask the
[00:30:46] Russian ambassador to come for a
[00:30:49] conversation?
[00:30:52] Well, that's a diplomatic
[00:30:55] step that one can use. There's a
[00:30:58] diplomatic ladder, you can also start
[00:31:02] expelling diplomats, you can, if it's on the very large scale.