DR1 — broadcast
20260915 090000 UTC
526 transcript segments
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Machine transcription. Treat it as a searchable index of what was broadcast, not a verbatim quotation record.

[00:00:00] the circle is pushing for some of this to be done faster, for example,
[00:00:03] frigate purchases. Well, you can't just buy a frigate
[00:00:07] unfortunately, it takes years, and therefore you have to figure out
[00:00:11] what else we should do, but there is no doubt
[00:00:14] that the pressure that the Conservative People's Party is putting on this government, as we did on the
[00:00:18] previous one and the one before that and many years back, is to strengthen the
[00:00:22] Danish defense. It is really the eleventh hour that we are getting up to speed on
[00:00:25] this. Good, so when do you expect
[00:00:29] something completely
[00:00:32] yesterday, and the message after today's meeting is concrete to happen that makes it so that next time we have such an incident, we are
[00:00:34] perhaps better able to respond in some way instead?
[00:00:38] You can't attack a Russian frigate, but are we well
[00:00:41] enough equipped to react in the situation? Well, I
[00:00:45] think that the Danish defense, with the means and the resources available,
[00:00:49] has an understanding of what needs to be done
[00:00:52] in concrete situations, including this dangerous situation we have just
[00:00:55] experienced, so I am not worried about that. Everyone knows what they need to
[00:00:59] do. But I am worried that the Russians will continue
[00:01:02] to threaten us. That,
[00:01:06] we really need to crack down on this time.
[00:01:10] Yes, the future will show. Thank you for
[00:01:13] that. And now we will hear from Foreign Minister Lars Løkke
[00:01:16] Rasmussen. We caught him at Christiansborg as he was on his way into
[00:01:20] the group meeting. Yes, well, we take it very seriously, and
[00:01:24] we naturally also share this information with our allies, who
[00:01:27] also experience Russian
[00:01:31] escalation in various ways. That is, recently we saw drone attacks on trains
[00:01:34] on the Ukrainian-Polish border, so overall we see a
[00:01:38] Russia that is escalating the situation, and we take that very, very seriously, and it is
[00:01:42] also something that I think is serious enough by just inviting them to a
[00:01:44] conversation, and taking that trip again, so why
[00:01:48] not be a bit stronger either in the rhetoric or in another way of doing
[00:01:51] it? Well, I think I am pretty sharp in the rhetoric, so
[00:01:55] calling in ambassadors for a conversation,
[00:01:58] that is a tool in the diplomatic toolbox, and I agree
[00:02:02] that we have a situation with Russia where we often have to pick it up, but
[00:02:06] that does not change the fact that it is the way one
[00:02:09] can express to another country how one
[00:02:13] views matters, so we do that, and it will be
[00:02:16] in a sharp tone,
[00:02:19] and then there is also a continuous close coordination among
[00:02:23] our allies. I noticed there was a debate this morning about,
[00:02:26] do we involve them? Of course we do, so there is
[00:02:30] a close communication, just as we also from the Danish side
[00:02:33] follow the other situations that are unfolding,
[00:02:37] and all this paints a picture of a Russia that
[00:02:41] escalates and that tests
[00:02:44] our our solidarity, and that is
[00:02:48] intact. All of this serves the sole purpose from the Russian side of trying
[00:02:52] to make us withdraw from our Ukraine support, and that will not happen.
[00:02:56] What has ever changed when an ambassador or foreign minister has been given a telling off?
[00:03:01] You can't answer that, because you would have to ask what would have happened
[00:03:05] if an ambassador had never been called in for a conversation. That is the
[00:03:09] tool we have in this world
[00:03:12] to communicate to foreign countries how we view
[00:03:15] things, but it cannot stand alone, and the
[00:03:19] sharpest reaction to this is a Europe that continues,
[00:03:22] tirelessly, to make the absolutely necessary
[00:03:25] rearmament and continue our Ukraine support. All of
[00:03:29] this from the Russian side is an attempt to see if they can create discord among
[00:03:33] European countries, if they can separate political leaders from
[00:03:36] the population, if they can make us waver in our support for Ukraine, and that
[00:03:40] will not happen. Why is it not you, the tools that we have
[00:03:44] in the box, what do we actually have? We
[00:03:46] incidents that are not hear that they talk to their European or our European
[00:03:50] partners, what options do we actually have? Well, that's
[00:03:53] kind of the problem, so our colleagues naturally and understandably ask
[00:03:56] these politicians why they don't call
[00:04:00] NATO either under Article 4 or 5. The problem is, I think,
[00:04:03] a long, slow, but very that it also entails a risk, because then you do it and
[00:04:07] nothing really comes of it. So, we've been
[00:04:10] there before, that you've had these constant situations, and then NATO can also end
[00:04:14] up looking helpless. I think the fundamental problem here is
[00:04:18] that we as European constitutional states
[00:04:22] have very few, we have some economic sanction tools, yes, the
[00:04:25] diplomatic ones, and then there are ultimately military
[00:04:29] means we can resort to. Russia, on the other hand, has a
[00:04:32] long range of gray zone
[00:04:35] means they can use, where they do something that is kind of military or puts
[00:04:39] pressure on us or hurts us, but which just stays below
[00:04:43] that threshold, and that gray zone spectrum, we are very, very
[00:04:46] bad at responding within for good reasons, actually, because it is not
[00:04:50] in our nature as a society to go around doing such
[00:04:53] things, well, I don't even know how to describe it, such
[00:04:56] gray zone-like military stuff, but that's where Russia
[00:05:00] constantly pressures us in this gray zone spectrum, and that's where we have difficulty
[00:05:03] responding, and that's also why we have now, for example, seen a discussion in Germany, where the German
[00:05:07] intelligence services are starting to get new powers in relation to
[00:05:11] being able to start and... enter this gray zone spectrum,
[00:05:14] MI6, the British intelligence service, also recently got
[00:05:17] similar powers, right? So if we are to respond to this, if it is to hurt
[00:05:21] Russia to hurt us, then we probably need to get into that gray zone, at least
[00:05:25] that's what my sources tell me, but it's just very, very difficult, and it's also risky.
[00:05:29] Why is it, what challenges are there in
[00:05:31] that? Well, the problem is that
[00:05:35] this is really, really a dilemma for Danish and European politicians, because if
[00:05:39] you don't respond to something like what the Russians are doing, if it doesn't
[00:05:43] hurt the Russians to do what they're doing, then they'll just keep going.
[00:05:46] Conversely, if you make it hurt the other way, for example in this
[00:05:50] gray zone spectrum here, then you also don't know what the response
[00:05:53] will be, whether it will be escalation or what will come
[00:05:56] the other way, so therefore this situation is extremely difficult
[00:06:00] for Danish politicians and for European politicians to
[00:06:03] handle. Now we will hear from someone who
[00:06:07] will handle it, that is Defense Minister Jeppe
[00:06:09] Bros, we have asked him some questions in
[00:06:13] relation to the briefing that the defense spokespersons have been
[00:06:17] to, so it is located in international waters,
[00:06:20] uh, the helicopters have a completely legitimate reason to be there
[00:06:24] also, uh, and it is a normal practice, uh,
[00:06:27] which is not just a question of how we act, but also how others act in
[00:06:31] international waters, and how do you ensure that you
[00:06:34] inform the allies, you keep saying you have to stand together, but how
[00:06:38] do you do that? Well, we are in close and continuous contact with our
[00:06:42] allies regarding this incident and other incidents.
[00:06:46] Yes, Mads, it's not like we're getting much wiser about the incident,
[00:06:49] I mean, what was the Russian frigate doing
[00:06:53] in international waters close to Denmark?
[00:06:57] Why was it that
[00:07:00] the helicopter flew out and photographed it?
[00:07:03] I mean, do we photograph all Russian
[00:07:06] frigates? Yes, we do, as far as possible.
[00:07:10] Well, the Russian frigate has had many reasons to be there,
[00:07:13] as Niels Fastu describes, it could be as part of a
[00:07:17] shadow fleet protection operation, it could be all sorts of
[00:07:19] other things. It may have been in transit, on its way in
[00:07:23] and out. There is relatively lively traffic
[00:07:27] of Russian naval ships in and out of Danish waters, and then there are also
[00:07:31] those places where they kind of park themselves at a rest area in international
[00:07:34] waters, and they are allowed to be there, but close to where they
[00:07:38] might be needed. It could be to sail around and keep an eye on what is happening in Danish
[00:07:41] waters. It could be to protect the shadow fleet tankers, we
[00:07:45] don't know, but the fact that the Russians are there, and the fact that
[00:07:49] Danish units try to physically keep an eye on them, or at least
[00:07:52] check what it is, does it match what our radar images show us, it is
[00:07:56] also completely normal.
[00:07:59] Can one be provoked by being photographed in
[00:08:03] international waters? No, not
[00:08:05] really. I mean, one might find it irritating,
[00:08:09] one might find it inappropriate in
[00:08:12] relation to the task one has to perform, but the fact that it
[00:08:16] happens, the Russian frigate captain
[00:08:19] has experienced that many, many times before. What is interesting here, and what
[00:08:23] is worth noting, is the way they react.
[00:08:26] There are many ways to express one's
[00:08:30] dissatisfaction without having to shoot
[00:08:33] glowing magnesium balls, which is what comes out of these flares, these
[00:08:37] signal flares, towards a Danish helicopter. One could
[00:08:41] have flashed a signal light, one could have called up
[00:08:44] on VHF Channel 16, which is always open and where one usually
[00:08:48] communicates. One could even have directed the signal flare
[00:08:51] away from the Danish helicopter, so one would have achieved the same effect, so it is
[00:08:55] incredibly interesting, this question of whether it is part of a new
[00:08:58] pattern of behavior, that is, do they want to secure more operating space and
[00:09:02] peace to be out there from the Russian side, or is it just, in
[00:09:06] inverted commas, an isolated incident? Fortunately, no
[00:09:10] one was injured yesterday. But if that
[00:09:13] signal flare, which was closer than the other, at least, we have
[00:09:17] heard from the minister on the helicopter, if it had hit
[00:09:20] the helicopter with the two to four people in the crew, as you
[00:09:24] estimate there were in it, what would have happened concretely?
[00:09:28] Yes, it could have gone potentially horribly wrong. I mean,
[00:09:31] such signal flares typically shoot with
[00:09:35] magnesium or another substance, a similar substance, that
[00:09:38] glows incredibly hot. They can get over 100 degrees hot.
[00:09:42] Between 1500 and 3000 degrees hot,
[00:09:46] uh, so it is a, well, a
[00:09:49] dangerous substance to get into a, uh, such a
[00:09:53] mechanical object where there are, moreover, uh,
[00:09:56] high-octane jet fuel and all sorts of things that can
[00:10:00] catch fire, uh, and then it can hit people, uh, it can also go
[00:10:04] wrong if it hits such a pilot or someone on board, so these are dangerous
[00:10:08] things. Just as you shouldn't aim such, uh,
[00:10:11] family fireworks at each other, because
[00:10:15] it can be dangerous, yes, you also shouldn't shoot such professional military
[00:10:18] signal flares at each other, because it can be dangerous. There is a risk. Now we go from the military-technical to
[00:10:22] the political in this case. We go to you, Christine
[00:10:26] Kurtsen, you have gone from the Ministry of Defence to
[00:10:28] Christiansborg, which is not that far, and then you can brief us
[00:10:32] on what is happening politically right now in this
[00:10:34] case.
[00:10:38] The defense spokespersons from
[00:10:40] the defense agreement parties, and that means all parties except
[00:10:43] the Red-Green Alliance, the Alternative, and the Citizens' Party, have been to
[00:10:47] a briefing at the Ministry of Defence,
[00:10:50] uh, and after that, there is still very strong
[00:10:53] support for the way the government has handled this case,
[00:10:57] but factually we didn't get much
[00:11:00] wiser, because such a briefing is
[00:11:03] confidential, uh, and what needs to be said about what concretely
[00:11:07] happened, that's not something the parties go out and say,
[00:11:11] it comes from the government, if we get more information, but
[00:11:14] for now, there is very, very strong support for the way the government
[00:11:18] has handled this, and very
[00:11:21] strong broad political concern about the way the Russians
[00:11:25] react, yes, and the broad political
[00:11:28] support, we can certainly say that's not in all cases,
[00:11:32] and there were every opportunity today to go out
[00:11:35] from the opposition party and say: listen here, we support, we
[00:11:39] will not escalate anything at all, but we simply
[00:11:42] think that one should act in such and such a way,
[00:11:46] why is there no such signal
[00:11:49] from the opposition parties,
[00:11:50] Christine?
[00:11:53] Well, I actually think that should be taken as an expression of how
[00:11:57] seriously this situation is viewed, I mean, it is
[00:12:00] like this in Denmark, that when there is
[00:12:04] something that is very serious on the foreign policy,
[00:12:07] security policy scene, then the
[00:12:10] parties actually stand very broadly together, uh, to
[00:12:13] support the government,
[00:12:16] uh, that kind of opposition politics, I think we
[00:12:20] would see if the parties took it less
[00:12:23] seriously than they do. So, so it's probably an expression
[00:12:27] of the fact that they actually think this is a serious
[00:12:30] situation, and they are concerned about what
[00:12:33] Russia's intentions are with this constant attempt to
[00:12:37] poke at the NATO countries, what is
[00:12:40] behind it, what can they, what can they
[00:12:43] come up with? Yes, Christine, you are standing there completely still, I
[00:12:47] think there were several school classes that walked behind you quietly,
[00:12:51] some visitors inside Christiansborg, Christine, so one could
[00:12:54] well imagine being a fly on the wall, both of course at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and
[00:12:57] the Ministry of Defense, but also at the Prime Minister's Office, because who does Mette
[00:13:01] Frederiksen, the Prime Minister, call in such a situation, I mean,
[00:13:05] does she just pick up the phone and call Macron and say: listen
[00:13:09] here, or is it the EU system,
[00:13:12] is it NATO, what does one do?
[00:13:15] Well, it's important to say, we don't know exactly what she has
[00:13:19] done, but in such a situation, a Prime Minister like Mette Frederiksen, who has been
[00:13:22] Prime Minister for many, many
[00:13:26] years, she has the mobile numbers of the other NATO countries'
[00:13:30] government leaders in the EU system, and one must
[00:13:33] almost assume that they have talked to each other, uh,
[00:13:37] to, on the one hand, inform the other
[00:13:40] countries directly about what exactly has happened in
[00:13:44] Denmark, but also, of course, to
[00:13:47] discuss what kind of situation we are in with
[00:13:51] Russia, how should we interpret this, how should we
[00:13:54] analyze? It's not just happening in Denmark, but
[00:13:57] also in other countries, it was only a couple of days
[00:14:01] ago that a Russian drone
[00:14:05] attacked a train very close to Poland's border, and there are always
[00:14:08] these small
[00:14:11] serious enough to activate the whole big NATO apparatus,
[00:14:15] but nevertheless are experienced as
[00:14:19] repeated provocations from Russia's side, and
[00:14:23] even though everyday life continues
[00:14:25] inside Christiansborg, Christine, can one still feel it on a day like today, or
[00:14:29] how can one feel that this still makes the front page, or at least
[00:14:32] changes the priorities inside
[00:14:36] Christiansborg?
[00:14:39] Yes, you can see it, for example, in the fact that when
[00:14:43] we want reactions from the parties, it is
[00:14:46] the party leaders who go out in this situation for almost
[00:14:50] all parties, you don't just send a spokesperson out,
[00:14:54] not to say anything against spokespersons, but it says something about that this is
[00:14:57] at the highest level, it is the party leaders who go
[00:15:01] out and react on social media, it is the party leaders who give
[00:15:04] interviews with the media, uh, because
[00:15:08] this is a very, very serious matter, and that
[00:15:12] is something there is very broad political agreement on. Yes, that was our
[00:15:16] political correspondent, Christine Kurtsen, whom we will return
[00:15:19] to as soon as we have a news update ready, which will be
[00:15:22] soon, so don't go anywhere.
[00:15:28] in the studio, so we'll hear from them too, so stay
[00:15:30] tuned.
[00:15:50] Yes, welcome to representatives from all parties in the Danish Parliament have this
[00:15:54] morning been briefed at the Ministry of Defense. This
[00:15:58] follows a Russian frigate firing signal flares at one of
[00:16:02] the defense's helicopters. The incident took place in international
[00:16:06] waters off the coast of Gesser
[00:16:09] that the Parliament stands united. I believe
[00:16:12] the government is acting completely correctly in this matter, uh, and
[00:16:16] that it just proves that we must continue to
[00:16:20] rearm, it proves that we must stand together
[00:16:24] in the Parliament, and there must not be a piece of paper to be put
[00:16:27] between the parties in the Parliament, uh, when it comes
[00:16:31] to our rejection of Russia,
[00:16:34] and we will strengthen surveillance, we will not retreat, that's
[00:16:38] the important signal, and it's also important to say that we are not activating Articles
[00:16:41] four and five, uh, and in the Danish People's Party, we agree with the government not
[00:16:45] to do that. No, Article 4, that's where you formally call the member states for
[00:16:49] uh, for a consultation, and why is that too much? We don't think we're
[00:16:53] there yet, and it's also important for us to maintain calm and not escalate towards
[00:16:57] the Russians, but that we, in parallel with that, have informal
[00:17:00] conversations with our NATO allies, both to
[00:17:04] express, to get them to express support, but also...
[00:17:08] uh, to have a dialogue about what, what we do together, I think that's the right
[00:17:10] level. Defense Minister Jeppe Bros
[00:17:13] said after the meeting that the government views the incident with great
[00:17:17] seriousness, and as part of a larger pattern, where Russia shows more
[00:17:21] risk-taking. You have had all
[00:17:24] the agreement parties' spokespersons in for a briefing today,
[00:17:26] how has what happened tonight been received? Well, I
[00:17:30] think everyone views what happened yesterday afternoon with great
[00:17:33] seriousness, and uh, takes the situation seriously, but
[00:17:37] also with the signal that we
[00:17:40] naturally see what has happened as unacceptable.
[00:17:44] Normally, when something like this happens, the parties in an agreement rally
[00:17:47] together, and that's what you experience here, total
[00:17:51] support and a rejection, that it is of course
[00:17:54] completely unacceptable, yes, and not just for the parties in
[00:17:58] the defense agreement, but actually for the entire parliament, I would like to say. So what happens
[00:18:02] now? We hear that the Russian ambassador is going to
[00:18:05] the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, what will he know? Well,
[00:18:09] our Foreign Minister has summoned the Russian ambassador, and that
[00:18:13] is of course with the clear message uh, that what
[00:18:17] happened yesterday, uh, is completely unacceptable. What do you expect
[00:18:20] the answer will be? Do you expect him to say yes, that's right, or do you expect him to say, well, I
[00:18:24] don't know anything about that, that's not something we have orchestrated
[00:18:28] from the Russian government's side. Yes, but I won't speculate.
[00:18:31] Yes, I have to go in. Yes, that was the
[00:18:35] Defense Minister, and now to the Foreign Minister.
[00:18:39] He insists that the best Denmark can do right now is to
[00:18:42] summon Russia's ambassador for a conversation.
[00:18:46] Well, I think I'm pretty sharp in the rhetoric. I mean, calling
[00:18:49] in ambassadors for a conversation, that's a tool in
[00:18:53] the diplomatic toolbox, and I agree that we have a situation with
[00:18:57] Russia where we often have to pick it up, but that doesn't change the fact that
[00:19:00] it's the way one can communicate
[00:19:04] to another country how one views matters. Uh,
[00:19:07] so we do that, and it will be in a sharp
[00:19:11] tone, uh, and then there is also a continuous
[00:19:14] close coordination among our allies. Uh, I noticed there was a debate
[00:19:18] this morning about, I mean, do we involve them? Of course we do,
[00:19:22] I mean, there is a close communication,
[00:19:25] just as we also from the Danish side follow the other
[00:19:28] situations that are unfolding, and all this paints
[00:19:32] a picture of a Russia that uh escalates and that
[00:19:36] tests our our
[00:19:39] solidarity, and that is intact. I mean, all this serves
[00:19:43] the sole purpose from the Russian side of trying to make us withdraw
[00:19:47] from our Ukraine support.
[00:19:51] Yes, Christine Kurtsen, our political correspondent, Lars Løkke Rasmussen has
[00:19:54] found the diplomatic toolbox here.
[00:19:57] Why isn't it a bigger toolbox he has brought
[00:20:01] out than a conversation with the Russian
[00:20:03] ambassador?
[00:20:07] Well, I think it's because they're not interested in
[00:20:10] escalating the situation further, and you also have to keep
[00:20:14] some things in reserve, if something
[00:20:16] more serious happens, because the feeling right now
[00:20:19] is that Russia is
[00:20:22] repeatedly provoking around the
[00:20:25] NATO countries, and then it's good to have something in reserve if something
[00:20:29] more serious should happen, and from
[00:20:32] several party leaders in the Parliament, there is also support for
[00:20:35] the government's handling of the incident.
[00:20:37] We must show the Russians
[00:20:41] that we will not tolerate the way they behave,
[00:20:44] conversely, this is also a balanced
[00:20:48] approach that must be taken. Uh, I also agree that one should not
[00:20:52] use Article 4 of NATO to hold a
[00:20:55] consultation, as some argue one should,
[00:20:59] but this emphasizes the importance,
[00:21:02] the necessity, of rearming. This is an
[00:21:05] escalation from the Putin regime's side, which we must take deeply
[00:21:08] seriously. Should we try to retaliate in kind? I mean, we must
[00:21:12] of course try to avoid an escalation, that is very important to
[00:21:16] us, but at the same time, it is also, I mean, at the same time, it is incredibly important that we show that this
[00:21:20] does not split Europe, that we stand together, that is the way Putin's regime acts,
[00:21:24] they would like European countries to stay out of the war they are waging in Ukraine, they would
[00:21:28] like us to stay out of what is happening in the Baltic Sea, and therefore the most important thing is
[00:21:31] actually just that we do not change our behavior, that the next time there is a Russian
[00:21:35] frigate or similar, well, then we must continue to
[00:21:38] reconnoiter and monitor the area, and in that way
[00:21:41] show the Russians that we will not be intimidated by this, yes,
[00:21:45] now we heard only some of the politicians, it is a Danish
[00:21:48] Parliament that stands together. Here Christine, what kind of
[00:21:51] signal?
[00:21:54] Well, it's a signal that this situation is taken very seriously
[00:21:58] very broadly, and generally the
[00:22:02] repeated provocations,
[00:22:04] hybrid attacks, more or less successful from Russia's
[00:22:07] side, are taken very, very seriously, and then it is like that in the
[00:22:11] Danish democratic system that when there is a foreign or security policy
[00:22:15] situation that is considered very serious, there is a
[00:22:18] tradition of standing together and supporting the government, then
[00:22:22] one can always discuss later.
[00:22:26] Prime Minister Mette Frederiksen has reacted in a written
[00:22:29] comment. She writes: It speaks for itself
[00:22:32] that it is very serious when a Russian frigate yesterday fired so-called
[00:22:36] flares at one of the defense's helicopters. But it is unfortunately
[00:22:40] not surprising, because it is part of it pattern we see throughout
[00:22:43] Europe, with an increasingly aggressive and assertive
[00:22:46] Russia, which has intensified hybrid warfare against Europe.
[00:22:50] and which tests and challenges NATO. Russia wants to
[00:22:53] scare and sow discord. Our answer is to stand closer together and
[00:22:57] strengthen the defense of Denmark and Europe, as the Prime Minister says
[00:23:01] today.
[00:23:05] Yes, and here, we see one of the defense's Fenik helicopters on a previous
[00:23:09] exercise. It was precisely a helicopter of this type,
[00:23:12] which the Russian frigate yesterday shot at with signal
[00:23:16] flares. This happened when the helicopter was routinely
[00:23:19] taking pictures of the Russian frigate in
[00:23:23] international waters off Gæsser. According to the defense,
[00:23:26] one signal flare passed close by the
[00:23:30] helicopter. Niels Fastrup, investigative journalist here at
[00:23:33] DR, and Mads Korsær, defense correspondent. And Mads
[00:23:37] Korsær, what answers do you lack
[00:23:40] about yesterday's incident before we can fully interpret
[00:23:43] the case? What is incredibly interesting here is,
[00:23:47] is this part of a new
[00:23:51] operational pattern from the Russian side, that is, the fact that there are Russian
[00:23:54] warships or close to Danish waters, also frigates, it
[00:23:58] happens every single day, or at least all the time, and there are also always
[00:24:01] units from the Danish defense out to keep an eye on them, keep a physical track
[00:24:05] of, well, what we see on our radar images, does it fit, what kind
[00:24:09] of vessel are we dealing with here, so this is
[00:24:13] a choreographed dance that happens often, now there has been an
[00:24:16] unusual incident here, which stands out very, very
[00:24:20] violently, because it is a confrontational incident, and what we need to keep an eye on is,
[00:24:23] well, is this a new way of behaving from the Russian
[00:24:27] side, or is it actually just, so to speak, an
[00:24:30] accident? Niels Fastrup, you have exposed the
[00:24:33] Russian shadow fleet in and around Danish
[00:24:37] waters, is this the new normal, i.e., such
[00:24:40] incidents as this, is this something we
[00:24:43] should be prepared for, that it will become a part of our
[00:24:47] daily life, what is your model? Yes, I actually think unfortunately. We must,
[00:24:50] that is, it has been
[00:24:53] clear escalation now
[00:24:57] since 2022, when Russia invaded Ukraine,
[00:25:01] where Russia has constantly escalated the things they
[00:25:04] did, and most recently, for example, we also saw down in Leipzig, where it was, where military
[00:25:08] explosives were used, it fortunately did not explode, but it was used
[00:25:11] in an operation on NATO territory, so there is this
[00:25:15] upward escalation movement unfortunately, so
[00:25:18] I certainly think so, yes. But Mads, we haven't heard from the
[00:25:22] Russian side yet, we would like to talk to Russia's ambassador,
[00:25:26] Ladimir Barbin, but we haven't, so could this in any
[00:25:29] way have been an, uh, that the Russians saw it as a
[00:25:32] provocation, could it have been an accident from the Russian side? We don't
[00:25:36] know for good reasons, I mean, if the Russian side had
[00:25:40] wanted and had wished to communicate with the Danish helicopter, that it should
[00:25:43] keep its distance or just stay away, they could have done it
[00:25:46] in many other ways, uh, and that is probably
[00:25:50] what tells us that this should be seen as part of a general escalation
[00:25:54] on many different fronts, also close to
[00:25:57] Denmark's territory, so what one can say here is, well, uhm, this
[00:26:01] week, NATO's combined military leadership will actually
[00:26:04] meet in Copenhagen,
[00:26:07] including the American supreme commander of the entire alliance,
[00:26:11] they will meet in the Bella Center on Friday and Saturday, and one can say, well, now
[00:26:15] we are here asking what should we do, how should NATO
[00:26:19] react, among other things, this could be a good opportunity for them to have
[00:26:23] a talk in the Bella Center this weekend, which we
[00:26:27] are looking at, thank you both,
[00:26:29] this is of course a story
[00:26:33] that we follow and update when there is news, but now let's take a look
[00:26:36] at today's other
[00:26:38] news.
[00:26:43] In the Netherlands, the railway operator Pro
[00:26:47] Rail suspects that sabotage is to blame for disruptions
[00:26:50] in train traffic in the middle of rush hour this morning. Objects were found
[00:26:54] on the tracks, it is said. It is not immediately stated
[00:26:57] what objects are involved, or who is
[00:27:00] suspected of being behind the sabotage.
[00:27:05] Two 16-year-old boys have been charged with murder of a 25-year-old who died
[00:27:08] after a stabbing in Tilst on May 16th. This
[00:27:12] is announced by the prosecution at East Jutland police. In
[00:27:15] advance, four other young men are imprisoned in the case. The two
[00:27:18] 16-year-olds will be brought before the court in
[00:27:22] Aarhus this morning. Now we go to the USA, where the
[00:27:26] Supreme Court rejects Trump's attempt to tighten the rules for
[00:27:29] mail-in ballots. Trump signed a decree in the spring, which
[00:27:33] among other things required that ballots only be sent out
[00:27:36] to voters who were on special lists of
[00:27:39] mail-in voters in the individual states.
[00:27:42] At the same time, the president wanted the envelopes to be equipped with tracking, but the
[00:27:46] Supreme Court has now rejected this. The case has great
[00:27:49] significance for the midterm election in November, as almost a third of American
[00:27:52] voters vote by mail, AP writes.
[00:27:55] AP.
[00:28:00] Two out of three children and young people between nine and 17 years old have in the past year been
[00:28:04] exposed to digital violations or other unpleasant
[00:28:07] experiences online here at home. This is shown by a new survey from Save
[00:28:11] the Children and Trygfonden, which maps the extent of 12 different
[00:28:15] forms of digital violations.
[00:28:18] Most of the time it's on Snapchat, where there are random people who add me, and then sometimes
[00:28:21] I say yes to it to see if it's someone I know, and then it just ends up with them sending
[00:28:25] nude pictures and all sorts of things, there are also just a lot who have contacted me, and then it's also just videos
[00:28:29] of dead animals and car accidents and things like that. I was
[00:28:32] contacted by some of my friends' friends,
[00:28:35] um, and then they started writing a lot of unpleasant things, and
[00:28:39] like, I didn't know them, so I didn't really know what to
[00:28:43] do. The digital violations and unpleasant
[00:28:46] online experiences range from serious crimes, such as grooming
[00:28:50] attempts from adult strangers, to gross comments and harassment from
[00:28:53] peers. Save the Children has previously conducted similar
[00:28:57] surveys, and here the number has increased massively from 42%, that was
[00:29:01] in 2021 to now 66% this year.
[00:29:04] These experiences can have serious consequences. It shifts
[00:29:08] children and young people's ideas about what they themselves are worth, what others are
[00:29:11] worth. It can challenge their ideas about what boundaries they
[00:29:14] have, and because some of what the survey shows is that children
[00:29:18] to a higher degree consider some of this to be a condition of being
[00:29:21] online, we are actually also concerned about the gradual
[00:29:24] shift in their boundaries, which is associated with it. And
[00:29:28] the results of the survey are also serious, as Save the Children states.
[00:29:33] It is such that the majority of children and young people in Denmark
[00:29:37] between 9 and 17 years old, who in the past year have had a very
[00:29:40] unpleasant experience online, and that is everything from
[00:29:44] adults reaching out and perhaps, for example, sending
[00:29:48] intimate pictures, there are some who try to blackmail them, there are some who speak
[00:29:51] very badly to them, or they, for example, see a video of someone being
[00:29:55] killed or of animals being abused, I actually think
[00:29:58] that most adults, even though we know that it is
[00:30:02] hardcore what is happening in children and teenagers'
[00:30:06] feeds, even though we know that, I still think we would be surprised,
[00:30:09] would be surprised if we knew how wild it actually is,
[00:30:13] uh, and that calls in the highest degree for
[00:30:16] action from us adults, and us
[00:30:19] adults and that action, where should it come from, is it the
[00:30:22] politicians, is it the providers, who
[00:30:25] is it? Well, there is absolutely nothing to suggest
[00:30:29] that the tech giants themselves will take on this responsibility.
[00:30:32] "On the contrary, they earn money by having a behavioral design that steals
[00:30:36] children and young people's time and attention, and also some content that
[00:30:40] is, uh, deeply unpleasant, uh, they have
[00:30:43] had every opportunity to take on the responsibility, they haven't done it, and therefore we naturally
[00:30:47] need political regulation, uh, now there will be
[00:30:51] a law that you must be 15 years old to be on
[00:30:54] social media, that's a good first step, there is also a lot
[00:30:58] else that needs to be done.