ESPRESO — broadcast
20260806 093000 UTC
458 transcript segments
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[00:00:00] they are also not from what we remember
[00:00:03] this, this, as he would say, theater or also drama in several
[00:00:07] acts, we remember that well, they will also
[00:00:11] not be there, so there is no alternative, I
[00:00:13] understand well, well, there is an alternative, but
[00:00:17] it, you know, it's so uncertain, we
[00:00:21] expect to receive, at any rate, it was ordered, we were
[00:00:24] promised eight complexes SAMP/T next
[00:00:28] generation, but so far... the original
[00:00:31] Sam-T complex did not show the ability
[00:00:35] to shoot down ballistic missiles in the appropriate
[00:00:38] manner, and the
[00:00:41] Next Generation complex, because its improved
[00:00:44] model, is only expected to start combat tests
[00:00:48] in Ukraine in the summer, and we still need to be
[00:00:52] sure that the developers of this
[00:00:55] complex managed to overcome the problems with shooting down
[00:00:59] ballistic missiles. So far, to answer
[00:01:02] your question clearly, there is no
[00:01:05] alternative to PAC-3. Well, but when we talk about our
[00:01:08] pro-Ukrainian anti-ballistic missile system, of course, everyone
[00:01:12] is waiting for it, and it is known that the tests, the actual
[00:01:15] Freya, with the interception of ballistic targets, are expected only
[00:01:19] in the middle of next year. In fact, I want to ask
[00:01:22] what else we are lacking, how much time is needed for
[00:01:26] this missile to already be
[00:01:29] in service. for the defenders
[00:01:30] of the sky,
[00:01:34] it's hard to say, you understand, it's
[00:01:37] the development of a missile, I think that this
[00:01:40] missile is a very distant future,
[00:01:43] uh, well, let's say its mass production
[00:01:46] will be established in, according to my
[00:01:49] optimistic expectations, it's somewhere
[00:01:52] in 2028 2029,
[00:01:55] no earlier, because you
[00:01:58] see that all over the world... only the largest
[00:02:01] arms company, such as Lockheed Martin, managed
[00:02:05] to develop an anti-ballistic missile
[00:02:07] interceptor capable of shooting down with a direct
[00:02:11] hit, that is, it took years and
[00:02:14] the development lasted, well, let's say a decade, or
[00:02:18] two, at least 20 years, until
[00:02:21] they actually reached the method, until they implemented this
[00:02:24] method, well, I understand that we
[00:02:27] are developing our missile based on...
[00:02:31] Soviet anti-aircraft missiles, we
[00:02:33] use experience and use, well, not experience, but rather
[00:02:37] components of missiles, anti-aircraft missiles
[00:02:40] from our allies, but still integrating
[00:02:44] all this into a missile system, this is quite a difficult
[00:02:47] task, moreover, in the conditions
[00:02:51] of present-day Ukraine, when any enterprise,
[00:02:54] any factory, any, so to speak, city in
[00:02:57] Ukraine can be... attacked
[00:03:00] at any moment, and this also
[00:03:04] by no means contributes to the rapid
[00:03:06] development of any means of destruction, well, but what should
[00:03:10] Ukraine do next, because we understand that
[00:03:12] there are not enough interceptor missiles for Patriots, whether
[00:03:16] we can get them now is a big
[00:03:19] question, so how exactly can Ukraine
[00:03:21] defend itself?
[00:03:25] well, first of all, it's not about defending,
[00:03:27] but attacking, in my
[00:03:30] opinion, we have already
[00:03:32] worked, inflicted quite successful
[00:03:36] strikes on the launch installations
[00:03:38] of complexes, well, these Russian missile brigades,
[00:03:42] armed with Iskander complexes,
[00:03:45] at least two or three launchers have been destroyed, and several
[00:03:49] more have been damaged, in addition , strikes can be launched at
[00:03:52] various types of warehouses, where these
[00:03:55] missiles are delivered from enterprises, well, army-level
[00:03:58] warehouses,
[00:04:01] army group level, there is Russia Center, Army Group Center,
[00:04:05] there are similar such army groups, so
[00:04:07] finally, strikes can be launched at factories, manufacturers,
[00:04:11] which shows quite high effectiveness, especially if
[00:04:15] we use, you are now showing Flamingo
[00:04:18] missiles, which are capable of carrying over a
[00:04:21] ton of explosives, and one such hit is enough to
[00:04:25] destroy a workshop, and if the workshop is critical for
[00:04:28] production, this... stops the production
[00:04:31] of missiles. Well, that is, if active
[00:04:34] methods are used, they will all be, well,
[00:04:38] 100% more effective than
[00:04:40] waiting for some minimal supplies
[00:04:44] of interceptor missiles, because according to statistics,
[00:04:48] even having interceptor missiles, we are capable
[00:04:51] of shooting down one out of three launched
[00:04:54] missiles. And a strike on an enterprise, on a limited
[00:04:58] number of enterprises, because... for example, Russian ballistic
[00:05:01] missiles are produced by two enterprises, Zircon missiles -
[00:05:05] one enterprise, and plus in the technological
[00:05:08] chain, two factories are involved that produce.
[00:05:12] Solid-fuel engines, well, and it is certainly
[00:05:16] necessary to continue strikes on enterprises that produce
[00:05:20] radio electronics, because the main
[00:05:24] part of radio electronics, and other components, are of Russian
[00:05:28] production in these ballistic missiles, and strikes on
[00:05:32] Belgorod, there, Kremniy La or on
[00:05:35] Zelenograd, where the main
[00:05:39] capacities of Russian radio-electronic
[00:05:44] industry are produced, they also significantly affect missile production. Well, let's see,
[00:05:47] in April, HUR
[00:05:51] informed us that the Russians are capable of producing 60
[00:05:55] missiles per month, ballistic Iskander-M.
[00:05:57] In July, this figure already fell in the same
[00:06:01] HUR reports to 50 missiles per
[00:06:05] month. This is after we actively launched strikes
[00:06:08] on enterprises, warehouses, and launch installations.
[00:06:12] That is, the effectiveness of the active method of fighting
[00:06:15] Russian missiles has been confirmed, and this
[00:06:19] needs to be scaled up, that is, all hope is in
[00:06:23] ballistic missiles, I understand you well, Mr. Valeriy, because
[00:06:26] with drones, of course, you can't inflict good
[00:06:30] strikes, but when a ballistic missile arrives, there's nothing left to pick
[00:06:33] up, unfortunately, we don't have
[00:06:36] ballistic missiles as such, only
[00:06:40] two types of missiles are being tested in PC
[00:06:42] P-9, and Flamingo is a cruise missile,
[00:06:46] and cruise missiles, of course, like Russian
[00:06:50] cruise missiles, will suffer losses from Russian
[00:06:53] air defense, they are not as,
[00:06:56] let's say, effective during,
[00:06:59] well, Russian defense,
[00:07:03] is much more effective against cruise missiles, they will suffer
[00:07:06] losses, but the use of one such
[00:07:09] missile, I repeat, it... with a successful
[00:07:13] hit, can put an entire factory out of action, if it hits a critical
[00:07:16] workshop, so the use
[00:07:19] of powerful cruise missiles can significantly affect the situation,
[00:07:23] well, and besides, drones
[00:07:26] can be used to destroy Russian radio electronics
[00:07:29] enterprises, which are less protected than missile
[00:07:32] enterprises.
[00:07:35] Thank you for your comments for this conversation, Valeriy Romanenko,
[00:07:38] aviation expert, leading research fellow at the National Aviation
[00:07:42] University was with us live.
[00:07:44] The future of American military
[00:07:52] presence in European Union countries remains
[00:07:55] a subject of discussion. Political scientist and international security expert
[00:07:59] Fabrice Pothier believes that in this situation, the EU already
[00:08:02] needs to strengthen its own defense capabilities
[00:08:06] and be ready to independently resist possible Russian
[00:08:09] aggression. He shared this opinion... He
[00:08:12] shared this opinion on the World Talks program of TVP
[00:08:16] World.
[00:08:19] The American presence in Europe will be smaller. The question is only how
[00:08:23] exactly. Therefore, the best thing we can do, while the final results of this
[00:08:27] review are not yet known, is to create such defense capabilities and such
[00:08:30] key capabilities that will allow Europe to independently ensure
[00:08:34] its own security. This is not just about tanks or missiles. First of all, it's
[00:08:38] satellite systems, high-precision, long-range strikes, air
[00:08:41] defense, strategic military transport aviation, all that
[00:08:44] where today the main supplier remains the United States, and
[00:08:47] Europe still plays a secondary role. This is where we finally
[00:08:51] need to get things in order and significantly strengthen our own capabilities. Then we
[00:08:54] will be able to build more equal relations with the United States and be able
[00:08:58] to defend Europe with our own forces. Frankly, everything else
[00:09:01] is just speculation for now. The United States, which previously remained committed
[00:09:05] to Europe's security. It is also worth remembering the American guarantees
[00:09:09] of extended nuclear deterrence, which extends to the entire NATO
[00:09:13] alliance, so I do not believe that there are critical gaps in deterrence now,
[00:09:16] but we see something else, in the coming years Europe must learn
[00:09:20] to independently conduct complex military operations in response to possible
[00:09:23] Russian aggression, even if American troops continue
[00:09:27] to remain in the European theater, so we work
[00:09:30] based on the best scenario: Europe must be
[00:09:33] able to act without the help of the United
[00:09:35] States.
[00:09:39] The Minister of Interior of the German state of Saxony, ArminSch.
[00:10:55] and how would you comment on this silence, because silence is also
[00:10:58] a communicator? Well, of course, the problem is big, I
[00:11:02] think that both the NATO Secretary General and, of course,
[00:11:05] the leaders of our European allies, other
[00:11:09] allies, know about it, but the problem is what they can do about
[00:11:12] this problem, because there is a mechanism
[00:11:16] called Pearl, through which interceptors for Patriot
[00:11:20] missiles are transferred to us, which European
[00:11:24] allies buy from... the United States, I know that the Secretary General, in
[00:11:28] principle, NATO is actively working on this program, but
[00:11:31] the question is whether there are enough interceptors now
[00:11:34] that can, in principle, be bought and that can
[00:11:38] be transferred to Ukraine, because of course, Donald Trump
[00:11:41] denies that there is a deficit in the United States, but we
[00:11:45] see, in principle, from what is happening, that
[00:11:49] this is indeed the case, we see in what quantities these interceptors
[00:11:52] were used in...
[00:11:55] in the Middle East, and we understand that indeed they
[00:11:58] are becoming fewer and fewer, and countries are less
[00:12:01] willing to share them, so I
[00:12:05] think that, of course, there will still be some
[00:12:08] attempts by our European partners to find
[00:12:12] some opportunities, but these are isolated steps,
[00:12:15] because in July, for example, 126
[00:12:19] ballistic missiles were launched by Russia
[00:12:22] in strikes against Ukraine.
[00:12:25] if we talk about interceptors, we need
[00:12:28] at least two for each of these missiles, that is, we are talking about more
[00:12:31] than 250 interceptors that we need per
[00:12:34] month, and preferably more, such
[00:12:37] scale of assistance is not available, because it is necessary
[00:12:40] to understand that when partners provided us with assistance, it was
[00:12:44] 5-10 interceptors,
[00:12:47] 30 interceptors at once, that is, it is not on
[00:12:50] the scale that Ukraine currently needs,
[00:12:52] and of course...
[00:12:55] production is also not on that scale, so
[00:12:59] of course, I think our partners will
[00:13:02] try to find solutions, but we are also currently trying to launch
[00:13:06] this program together with European
[00:13:10] partners, the Freya anti-ballistic program, but this is all
[00:13:13] long-term, our expert Valeriy Romanenko just talked about this, that
[00:13:17] if Freya appears in 2028, it will be a great
[00:13:21] success, and in fact, on the eve of this, Volodymyr Zelenskyy spoke with the Secretary General
[00:13:25] of NATO and Mark Rutte promised that he would
[00:13:28] work with allies, they understand the problem that we
[00:13:32] have nothing to defend our peaceful places, cities, but
[00:13:35] here the question is different: Volodymyr Zelenskyy said that
[00:13:39] Patriot missiles can become such
[00:13:42] a factor of political pressure on Kyiv during
[00:13:45] negotiations, do you see any signs or prerequisites for this to
[00:13:49] happen exactly?
[00:13:52] Yes, unfortunately, unfortunately, I do, because firstly, we see
[00:13:55] that Russia is increasing the production of ballistic missiles,
[00:13:58] and we also see signals that Russia
[00:14:02] is now receiving ballistic missile supplies from North
[00:14:06] Korea, we are talking about 40 additional ones now, and
[00:14:09] this support should be increased, well,
[00:14:13] from the side of North Korea to 120
[00:14:15] missiles, that is, again, we are talking about large numbers,
[00:14:19] these are missiles that can cause us a lot of
[00:14:22] harm, and this is the...
[00:14:25] let's say, that weak side of ours that
[00:14:28] Russia will use, we see that month after month
[00:14:32] they are increasing these capabilities,
[00:14:35] understanding that, that indeed there is simply no physical
[00:14:38] possibility for Ukraine to receive these interceptors in such quantities
[00:14:42] , of course, we, I hope that we will have
[00:14:45] certain capabilities, at least to intercept some of these
[00:14:49] ballistic missiles selectively, but not
[00:14:52] on this scale, and if we talk... about the fact that we
[00:14:56] are entering autumn, then winter, then this indeed
[00:15:00] can become that element of pressure that
[00:15:03] Russia will use, because they actually have no other elements of pressure
[00:15:07] on Ukraine, this is the only such weak side that
[00:15:10] they will, that they will use, but
[00:15:14] President Zelenskyy said, we heard that
[00:15:18] Western partners, according to the quote,
[00:15:21] have Patriot-3 missiles in warehouses.
[00:15:25] But, in that case, why don't these partners provide them to
[00:15:29] Ukraine? Yes, Western partners do have them, in
[00:15:33] principle, they are located in various parts
[00:15:36] of the world. Of course, they are in the United States, as we mentioned, they
[00:15:40] are in countries
[00:15:43] in the Middle East, the Persian Gulf, they are in
[00:15:47] countries in the Indo-Pacific,
[00:15:50] the Pacific region, and they are in
[00:15:53] European partners, but among them, European partners are
[00:15:57] those who can still support us,
[00:16:01] but here the problem is in the quantities, as
[00:16:05] I mentioned, so that simply... well, some
[00:16:08] partners do not have them in the quantities that would be needed
[00:16:12] by us, that is, countries probably can
[00:16:15] provide some 5-10
[00:16:18] interceptors, but again, over these
[00:16:21] years, their certain
[00:16:24] resources are also being depleted, for example, the Netherlands recently in
[00:16:28] July stated that they simply exhausted all possibilities
[00:16:31] to provide, and therefore, another problem,
[00:16:35] as we discussed, is that hybrid attacks against European
[00:16:38] countries are also intensifying, and therefore they also
[00:16:41] want to keep these reserves for themselves, and here
[00:16:45] the question, of course, is what is a priority, well, in my opinion, of course,
[00:16:48] helping Ukraine now is more important, but
[00:16:52] for politicians of certain countries, the decision to hold onto these reserves for
[00:16:56] themselves may be more, so to speak, important
[00:17:00] for their society, how to explain that we are giving away,
[00:17:03] well, resources that are already depleted, here also the problem...
[00:17:07] of production of new, new interceptors, because,
[00:17:11] for example, there is a program under which European
[00:17:14] partners give their own and then receive guarantees
[00:17:18] that they will be earlier in the queue for receiving new products from
[00:17:21] the United States, but if currently the production from the United
[00:17:25] States is about 50 Patriot-3
[00:17:28] missiles per month, that is, until
[00:17:31] the scale of this production grows, countries will also
[00:17:35] be afraid that they will not receive them on time, because they are already waiting
[00:17:39] for several years, therefore, well, of course, this is a political decision, and
[00:17:42] I hope that there is an understanding among European partners that Ukraine's
[00:17:46] security is their security, and it is necessary to help Ukraine
[00:17:49] now, because, well, this, this threat for them may be
[00:17:53] in the future, however, this is always a question of what is
[00:17:57] their own security for individual countries. Well, and indeed, the fact that
[00:18:01] Russia is deepening, intensifying hybrid attacks on European
[00:18:04] countries, this also makes them think about the fact that more
[00:18:08] weapons need to be preserved, possibly for themselves, so that in case
[00:18:11] of anything they have something to defend themselves with. Thank you for this conversation, Iryna
[00:18:15] Krasnoshtan, program, program director of the International
[00:18:18] Center for Ukrainian Victory, expert on Ukraine-NATO issues, former
[00:18:22] political politician, NATO Representative in
[00:18:25] Ukraine. Thank you. Thank
[00:18:26] you.
[00:18:29] New in politics, tough in his decisions and sensitive to historical
[00:18:32] topics. These words can describe the current President of Poland, Karol
[00:18:36] Nawrocki. Exactly one year ago, after winning the presidential
[00:18:40] elections, he took the oath to the nation. What did
[00:18:43] the leader of the neighboring country remember during this
[00:18:46] period? Watch in the next
[00:18:53] report. August 6,
[00:18:56] 2025 Karol Nawrocki with his wife Marta
[00:18:59] cross the threshold of the plenary hall of the Sejm after the solemn
[00:19:03] performance of the anthem. The newly elected President of Poland takes
[00:19:06] the oath. Solemnly
[00:19:45] swears. an independent candidate, supported by the Law and Justice party, won the second round of elections in June 2025. Before
[00:19:49] entering politics, he headed the Institute of National Remembrance, and
[00:19:52] conducted his campaign under the slogan "Poland first,
[00:19:56] Poles first." I believe in Poland and I will fight
[00:20:00] for it. I can say with full responsibility
[00:20:03] that I am ready to represent all
[00:20:06] Poles. gathered voters around him with
[00:20:10] rhetoric regarding Ukraine, declared a tough stance towards Kyiv,
[00:20:14] advocated limiting social support for war migrants, and
[00:20:17] questioned the Euro-Atlantic prospects of our
[00:20:21] state. As of now, I do not see
[00:20:24] Ukraine as either a member of the EU or NATO. A country
[00:20:28] that is unable to answer for a very cruel crime against
[00:20:31] 120 thousand of its neighbors cannot be
[00:20:35] part of international alliances. There
[00:20:38] were also public scandals around his person, the
[00:20:41] media wrote about connections with football fans and accused him of working for
[00:20:45] a security company that allegedly escorted prostitutes. Nawrocki
[00:20:49] himself called
[00:20:50] everything slander.
[00:20:54] After taking office, he set about fulfilling his promises. In August
[00:20:58] 2025, he vetoed amendments to the law that
[00:21:01] provided for social payments for children 800+ and
[00:21:04] the extension of temporary protection for Ukrainians. Instead,
[00:21:08] he proposed linking assistance to employment and
[00:21:11] compulsory schooling for children . During Volodymyr
[00:21:15] Zelenskyy's visit to Warsaw in December, he reproached the Ukrainian authorities for
[00:21:19] ingratitude. This once again earned him public favor. How
[00:21:22] Nawrocki intends to stand guard over
[00:21:26] the security of the state became known in March 2026.
[00:21:29] The president vetoed the European Defense
[00:21:33] Loan program, SAFE. Subsequently, the streets of Poland were flooded with protests, and
[00:21:37] the government had to look for plan
[00:21:39] B.
[00:21:44] In total, during his first year in office, the Polish president blocked a record
[00:21:48] number of laws, 41, and also stripped Volodymyr
[00:21:51] Zelenskyy of the Order of the White Eagle. The leaders managed
[00:21:54] to talk face-to-face again during the NATO summit in Ankara. However,
[00:21:58] regarding historical issues, according to Nawrocki himself,
[00:22:01] they failed to agree. I will add that despite
[00:22:05] waves of tension in Polish-Ukrainian relations, Nawrocki's position on
[00:22:08] Russia's war against Ukraine remains unchanged. He calls Putin
[00:22:12] a threat to Europe and calls for pressure on Moscow, and among
[00:22:15] the priorities of his first year in office are strengthening
[00:22:19] Poland's security, adjusting policy towards Ukraine,
[00:22:22] regional cooperation and aspirations for permanent membership
[00:22:26] in the G20. On July 29, sociologists
[00:22:29] Ibris conducted a survey, according to which the current
[00:22:32] president is trusted by over 51%
[00:22:36] of respondents. Yulia Hunko,
[00:22:38] glory. The Washington Post
[00:22:41] reported that US President Donald Trump last week
[00:22:45] demanded an explanation from Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth about
[00:22:48] why he... Apparently, regarding the acute shortage of ammunition, they were
[00:22:52] misled. Meanwhile, in
[00:22:56] Poland, a year has passed
[00:22:58] since Karol Nawrocki became President of Poland, and how
[00:23:02] have relations between our countries looked during
[00:23:06] that year of Karol
[00:23:15] Professor of Social Sciences. Former Minister of Foreign Affairs, let me correct
[00:23:19] you, yes.
[00:24:20] about the president's main role,
[00:24:21] which,
[00:24:24] and this is supremacy over the armed forces
[00:24:27] of Poland and representing Poland, that is, one should expect from him
[00:24:31] a policy that leads to increasing
[00:24:34] security, and here the role of cooperation with Ukraine is very
[00:24:38] important, because Ukraine has
[00:24:42] very important
[00:24:44] means, and
[00:24:46] experience,
[00:25:02] in matters of security between our states, yes, as if
[00:25:06] we could cooperate, that is, I blame
[00:25:09] his presidency for this,
[00:25:12] nevertheless, he should be given credit, well,
[00:25:16] considering the factors that you listed in...
[00:25:20] Ukrainian cooperation, we know that Poland was
[00:25:23] and remains Ukraine's main military
[00:25:26] and logistical partner, much has been done over the years
[00:25:30] in the matter of joint,
[00:25:33] resolving joint defense issues, but we actually see that
[00:25:36] historical issues have been hindering us recently, and according
[00:25:40] to a survey by Opinia 24, 44%
[00:25:43] of Poles said that resolving historical issues
[00:25:46] could hinder the continuation of military
[00:25:50] assistance to Ukraine, how do you think, does this
[00:25:53] topic of historical memory risk becoming a factor that will
[00:25:57] affect our security
[00:25:58] cooperation?
[00:26:02] This memory affects it, because this cooperation is not at the level it
[00:26:06] could be, but it seems to me that
[00:26:09] the last statements from President
[00:26:13] Zelenskyy
[00:26:16] and the president of the Institute of Remembrance indicate
[00:26:19] that understanding is possible, there
[00:26:23] is a decision of the president
[00:26:26] to conduct.
[00:27:12] a just war on the part of Ukraine,
[00:27:16] in order to push back the Russian
[00:27:19] aggressor, and this is a priority that should
[00:27:21] not disappear, this should be the main
[00:27:25] goal for the government for
[00:27:34] Ukraine, although both sides stated that
[00:27:37] there would be drone, drones, drone
[00:27:41] technologies, in exchange for Mig-29 aircraft, and
[00:27:45] nothing came of it, so far we see that some
[00:27:48] negotiations are underway, we, of course, do not know their
[00:27:52] final result, but nevertheless,
[00:27:56] it does not look like we all
[00:27:59] expected, well, I think
[00:28:41] it's very valuable if it's about
[00:28:44] countries near Iran, we need to
[00:28:47] appreciate this know-how, this
[00:28:50] knowledge, and other countries also cooperate, American
[00:28:54] enterprises also cooperate with Ukraine in
[00:28:56] that
[00:28:59] and we don't need to talk about this, that... we
[00:29:03] need to change this technology
[00:29:06] for old Soviet
[00:29:10] aircraft, MiGs can be donated,
[00:29:14] but
[00:29:15] secondly, what would be useful for both
[00:29:19] sides is access to
[00:29:22] technologies, but also stable cooperation, I believe that Poland should not
[00:29:25] rule out
[00:29:27] the presence of a stabilization
[00:29:31] mission. in Ukraine,
[00:29:33] Polish military
[00:29:37] needs to prepare, to
[00:29:41] to transfer knowledge from the war
[00:29:44] for the Polish army, as other countries
[00:29:48] do, we are behind, unfortunately, we are
[00:29:50] neighbors,
[00:29:52] and when it comes to cooperation, it doesn't look
[00:29:56] like the potential could indicate, there will be such an
[00:30:00] understanding between Poland...
[00:30:13] Here I also see a certain danger, because Ukraine needs
[00:30:17] access to Patriot technology,
[00:30:20] President Trump announced that he
[00:30:24] thinks, he thinks about providing such
[00:30:27] access, now he doesn't know, this
[00:30:30] is not...