ESPRESO — broadcast
20260920 193000 UTC
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[00:00:00] are considered missing under special circumstances, according to
[00:00:03] the latest data from the national police, and all their
[00:00:06] families wait daily for news about their
[00:00:09] relatives.
[00:00:13] So, about assistance to families whose relatives are missing, we will talk
[00:00:17] today on the program, with us on the line is a People's Deputy of
[00:00:20] Ukraine, head of the subcommittee on veteran rehabilitation of the
[00:00:24] Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine Committee, Iryna Nekorak. Ms.
[00:00:28] Iryna, I welcome you, thank you for... joining the
[00:00:30] conversation. Welcome. So, in
[00:00:34] 2025, the Ombudsman received 776
[00:00:38] complaints regarding the appointment and payment of benefits for the death of
[00:00:41] a serviceman. And this is actually the largest category of
[00:00:44] problematic appeals. So, why are there such
[00:00:47] delays?
[00:00:50] Well, in practice, we observe quite
[00:00:53] many cases when communication between
[00:00:56] the TCC and the military unit, in the context of
[00:01:00] information exchange, data transfer, it
[00:01:03] happens quite slowly, plus they often submit an incomplete package of
[00:01:07] documents, or make mistakes in it, and because
[00:01:10] of this the path to
[00:01:14] properly processing all payments and supporting
[00:01:17] the family of the missing person is delayed for months, and
[00:01:21] sometimes even longer.
[00:01:24] We, perhaps, remember 2023,
[00:01:27] when we, as a political... force
[00:01:31] of the European Solidarity faction, raised the first questions about
[00:01:34] the need for digitalization and automatic
[00:01:37] provision of a combat participant's certificate, not a certificate, but the status
[00:01:41] of a combat participant. There were huge
[00:01:44] discussions, at first they said that it was impossible to digitalize these
[00:01:47] processes, because the data might be unprotected, it was impossible
[00:01:51] to synchronize registers and databases held by
[00:01:54] the Ministry of Defense, including the TCC, but still
[00:01:58] this process then moved from a dead end, and the same
[00:02:01] thing is happening now in many areas, this actually applies not
[00:02:05] only to families of the missing, it applies to other areas,
[00:02:09] so we insist and often initiate and
[00:02:12] try to push through legislative
[00:02:15] initiatives as quickly as possible, which
[00:02:19] will help,
[00:02:21] if not completely, then at least bring this indicator closer to
[00:02:25] digitalization, to synchronization between
[00:02:28] registers, between the work
[00:02:30] of various central executive bodies that hold all these
[00:02:34] databases, so that in practice
[00:02:37] Ukrainians, and families of the missing,
[00:02:40] and families of the deceased, and families
[00:02:43] of servicemen, could timely
[00:02:46] receive those social services, benefits
[00:02:49] and payments that are guaranteed to them at the state level
[00:02:53] and accordingly funds are provided
[00:02:56] in the state budget. In fact, they talk about bureaucracy.
[00:03:00] Families for a long time, well, the main thing they talk about is
[00:03:03] bureaucracy in these payments, but actually, if we talk about
[00:03:06] digitalization, then our country,
[00:03:09] probably one of those that, where digitalization is in the first
[00:03:13] place, and it is very, it
[00:03:16] has spread very widely and digitalization is at a high level, but probably not
[00:03:19] when we talk about tragedies, right, because when it comes to
[00:03:23] families of the deceased or families of missing servicemen, then
[00:03:27] there is a lot of this paperwork. At what stage
[00:03:31] is this digitalization now, to make it still
[00:03:34] synchronized and create this electronic
[00:03:37] register? Well, here it is worth
[00:03:41] probably asking such a question to
[00:03:45] the head or members of the relevant defense committee, because
[00:03:48] after all, these
[00:03:52] issues fall within the scope of their relevant committee,
[00:03:55] whether there is a development
[00:03:58] of such a register as of now or not, I don't know for
[00:04:01] sure, but one way or another, we still observe
[00:04:05] quite often in such sensitive
[00:04:09] issues the exchange of
[00:04:12] paper documents, I sincerely hope that
[00:04:15] in the near future this will be regulated, but from
[00:04:19] my practice, as a people's deputy, I quite often
[00:04:23] write a huge number of parliamentary inquiries, and in
[00:04:26] fact, manually. I try to help
[00:04:30] this or that family or serviceman
[00:04:34] with various issues, you have already mentioned that there is a long
[00:04:37] time between a certificate from the TCC about
[00:04:41] death and a certificate from the military medical commission, where
[00:04:44] very often the exact same text is written, and in fact,
[00:04:47] a whole year can pass, and only then does the family
[00:04:51] receive the very first payment, how can we possibly
[00:04:54] reduce this bureaucracy and speed up this payment process?
[00:04:58] Payments at this time, or is it impossible to do this now,
[00:05:02] what needs to be done at all to speed up the payment
[00:05:05] process? Well, I generally observe
[00:05:08] quite a high dispersion
[00:05:11] of the social system, this applies to payments to
[00:05:15] families of the missing, and quite often, as you
[00:05:18] know, the processing time for a one-time cash payment
[00:05:21] in the event of the death of a serviceman
[00:05:25] takes quite a long time, meaning there are several different tracks
[00:05:29] for which the responsible central executive body is
[00:05:33] the Ministry of Defense, and at the level of the Ministry of Defense, there is
[00:05:36] a special commission that reviews these packages of documents, so
[00:05:40] here it is probably worth considering, perhaps...
[00:05:43] in the future, to consider
[00:05:46] the decentralization of the work of this commission in order to at least at the
[00:05:50] regional level, it would be possible
[00:05:53] to unify some standard cases, but
[00:05:56] given the number of appeals that you mentioned at the beginning of our
[00:06:00] conversation, appeals specifically to the Ombudsman, we must
[00:06:03] understand that systemic solutions are needed here. You know, I would like to add here, probably, that these and
[00:06:06] the number of appeals 776, yes, these are only
[00:06:09] those people who... know about such an opportunity that one can contact
[00:06:13] the Ombudsman, yes, and leave this appeal,
[00:06:17] and it may be considered, but I know, Ms. Iryna, that you
[00:06:21] actually quite actively communicate with families of the deceased, with families of the missing,
[00:06:24] you have already also said that you send
[00:06:28] certain appeals to the Ministry of Defense, and is there feedback, well, look, I
[00:06:32] will never abandon a family that turned to me until the moment
[00:06:36] I bring this issue to some logical resolution, this actually...
[00:06:40] concerns even veterans,
[00:06:44] active defenders, with whom I have constant dialogue, to whom I
[00:06:47] help in the area of prosthetics, treatment, and
[00:06:50] medical provision, some issues of course accumulate,
[00:06:54] and as a result of this, we
[00:06:58] and our colleagues write legislative initiatives
[00:07:01] that later turn into law, just
[00:07:04] recently we adopted a very important law
[00:07:07] 13704d, which concerns
[00:07:09] prosthetics. which
[00:07:12] concerns payments to our servicemen who
[00:07:16] received serious injuries and are undergoing
[00:07:19] long-term inpatient treatment,
[00:07:22] to the boys and girls released from captivity,
[00:07:25] so actually here each individual
[00:07:29] case needs to be discussed, but I
[00:07:31] am convinced that we will still have a detailed and
[00:07:35] in-depth dialogue with colleagues from the relevant committee, in
[00:07:39] order to support and help...
[00:07:42] people who have been waiting for such payments for a year or more. Missing
[00:07:45] servicemen, that's a separate category, and as far as I
[00:07:49] spoke with families, I was surprised to learn that
[00:07:53] they are not attached to any unit, and currently
[00:07:56] belong to the category of veterans, meaning
[00:07:59] they actually belong neither to the Ministry of Veterans Affairs nor to
[00:08:02] the Ministry of Defense, no agency is responsible for them,
[00:08:05] at least that's what the families of those who
[00:08:09] died and those families with whom they communicate say.
[00:08:13] And so relatives have to go to social protection, ask about
[00:08:16] benefits, about payments, there are some certain local initiatives in
[00:08:20] communities. Previously, at least it was possible to recognize
[00:08:23] a person as deceased through court if there were witnesses on the battlefield,
[00:08:26] yes, that the husband died, or for example, and no one from the family
[00:08:30] is against it, now there is no such possibility, and
[00:08:33] the family is actually in such a case in such a long period of
[00:08:36] uncertainty, and of course they are in that uncertainty in
[00:08:40] a difficult state. such tragic news, and
[00:08:44] they also need to solve such problems independently. In
[00:08:48] your opinion, is it perhaps advisable to create a patronage service
[00:08:51] in Ukraine that would help families of the missing, which
[00:08:55] would help with support, with documents and solve these problems
[00:08:58] that accumulate after this tragic news,
[00:09:02] for example, could powers be given to public organizations,
[00:09:06] in your opinion, how should it work?
[00:09:09] Well, I would start by saying that a missing
[00:09:12] person officially remains assigned
[00:09:15] to a military unit, just in a special
[00:09:19] status until the circumstances are clarified,
[00:09:22] accordingly, we have social support,
[00:09:25] social support means social
[00:09:28] support, that is, at the level of the TCC, they should
[00:09:31] continue to maintain communication with
[00:09:35] the families of the missing, because according to the legal component,
[00:09:38] they still remain assigned to this structure, but in
[00:09:42] these unpleasant situations, as you rightly say, when they are
[00:09:46] manipulated by the terrorist country from
[00:09:49] the Russian Federation, when various photos are displayed,
[00:09:53] communication takes place in various chats through
[00:09:56] Telegram channels and so on. As for
[00:10:00] the patronage service, what I see in practice is that the
[00:10:04] institution of the patronage service works very well, as
[00:10:07] a super exemplary case at the level of the Third
[00:10:10] Assault Brigade and at the level of Azov for many
[00:10:13] years, and this applies to the entire category, they communicate with families
[00:10:17] of the missing, and with families of the deceased, and the wounded, and
[00:10:20] those who are released from captivity, or who are in... captivity, that is, they
[00:10:24] are fully engaged in communication, restoring documents, ensuring
[00:10:28] all payments with such categories of
[00:10:31] Ukrainians. Can this be scaled up to all
[00:10:35] of Ukraine? Obviously, it is quite difficult, because
[00:10:38] much depends on the leadership that is shown at
[00:10:42] the level of this or that brigade or already now
[00:10:45] a corps. Many brigades try to implement these patronage
[00:10:48] services. The Ministry of Veterans Affairs followed the same
[00:10:52] path. two years ago, they launched
[00:10:55] the institution of a veteran support specialist, it doesn't work perfectly now, we
[00:10:59] recently heard at the level of our committee
[00:11:03] an audit report and also
[00:11:06] from the Accounting Chamber, how
[00:11:09] this institution works throughout Ukraine, that is,
[00:11:13] in order to make something institutional that will work
[00:11:16] effectively and
[00:11:20] correctly, it takes a lot of time,
[00:11:23] of course, it takes money, and most importantly,
[00:11:27] it takes human capital,
[00:11:29] these are our people who must be trained to
[00:11:32] manage these complex processes. If we
[00:11:35] talk about public organizations, here there are, in my opinion,
[00:11:39] both weak and strong sides, well, actually, from the strong
[00:11:43] sides, public organizations, they are definitely more
[00:11:47] flexible, there is no bureaucracy, I say this as the founder of
[00:11:51] a public organization that supports women in the army, we also
[00:11:55] help girls who are on the front
[00:11:58] line, and we do this much faster than the Ministry of Defense.
[00:12:02] This does not mean that the Ministry of Defense works poorly, it simply means that we,
[00:12:06] as the public, can make decisions much faster,
[00:12:09] provide assistance much faster, and we are definitely non-bureaucratic, we are
[00:12:13] flexible, and of course the public sector enjoys
[00:12:17] great trust among society, but there are weak
[00:12:20] sides, because if we are talking about the category of
[00:12:24] missing or deceased, we cannot
[00:12:27] give public organizations access, for example, to state
[00:12:31] secrets, we cannot, because this contradicts current
[00:12:34] legislation, there must be access to this state
[00:12:37] secret, only a certain defined circle of people can work
[00:12:41] with this data, so the public sector
[00:12:44] definitely needs to be involved in
[00:12:47] developing, in obtaining their expertise, because they often
[00:12:51] accompany many families and help them in all possible ways.
[00:12:55] And for the formation of future policies
[00:12:58] together with, of course, the parliamentary corps, and these are public
[00:13:02] organizations and
[00:13:04] the ultimate, let's say, users
[00:13:07] of future services, these are actually families of servicemen. In fact,
[00:13:11] public organizations can become such a bridge, probably, between
[00:13:14] families, yes, in which a tragedy has occurred and
[00:13:17] between, well, conditionally, the TCC, and they can provide this
[00:13:21] information when a person receives this terrible news.
[00:13:25] She is in a very difficult state, so that she understands what
[00:13:28] to do, that is, she goes to one person who directs her, what
[00:13:32] she, what she needs to do in this situation,
[00:13:35] where to turn to and how she should proceed? It seems to me that
[00:13:39] public organizations should somehow exist in this
[00:13:42] story? In fact, public organizations
[00:13:45] also perform such a bridging role, and this happens both at
[00:13:49] the national level, in large cities, like
[00:13:51] Kyiv, Kharkiv, Odesa, Lviv, Dnipro and others, but also
[00:13:55] in communities, already quite powerful centers are forming
[00:13:58] among leaders and
[00:14:02] public organizations, which one way or another support families. This is not
[00:14:06] everywhere. We cannot say that there is a network of these public organizations
[00:14:10] throughout Ukraine that can provide such
[00:14:13] support. But at the level of communities themselves,
[00:14:17] it seems to me that local governments
[00:14:20] and territorial communities
[00:14:24] should play a big role here.
[00:14:27] who should help these
[00:14:31] people first of all from an emotional and psychological
[00:14:34] point of view and physical and material, because you understand, when
[00:14:38] a family receives such news, no one
[00:14:42] thinks about how to go and submit all
[00:14:45] applications as quickly as possible, write all documents, process all papers, that's
[00:14:49] why I said at the beginning of our conversation about the need for
[00:14:52] full digitalization and synchronization. when a person
[00:14:55] writes one application and it works
[00:14:59] according to the rule that, for example, is effective in
[00:15:03] medicine, yes, when money follows the patient, here money
[00:15:06] should follow the family, the
[00:15:09] person who wrote the application, then
[00:15:12] other structures, bodies and central
[00:15:15] executive authorities should receive
[00:15:18] this call that here in our system another
[00:15:22] family has appeared, which received the status of a family of
[00:15:25] a missing person or a family of a deceased person or
[00:15:28] a family of a wounded person, and then, depending on
[00:15:32] what status this family receives and
[00:15:35] what benefits and payments are provided for it, because
[00:15:39] there are many of them today, this is the possibility
[00:15:43] to apply for a military pension for
[00:15:46] incapacitated parents, so to speak, of the deceased, and
[00:15:50] free travel on public transport,
[00:15:53] and discounts on utilities, and
[00:15:57] free education in higher education
[00:16:00] institutions for children in
[00:16:03] families of the deceased or missing with scholarships, free
[00:16:06] accommodation in dormitories. That is, there are a great many things
[00:16:09] that are provided for today,
[00:16:12] so the family, the family just needs to be
[00:16:15] informed at all stages about what opportunities
[00:16:19] it has and actually, what
[00:16:21] additional
[00:16:25] services and benefits it can use. You
[00:16:28] also mentioned the specialist for support, who works in
[00:16:32] communities, and how can families communicate with them,
[00:16:35] because I understand that there is quite little information on this
[00:16:39] matter, and can this support specialist
[00:16:43] help all families, or how
[00:16:46] to find him in the community, does it depend on
[00:16:50] the community whether there is such a specialist, or are such
[00:16:53] specialists being trained in the state now, how does this procedure
[00:16:55] work? Such specialists are trained without
[00:16:59] prior training,
[00:17:02] how to provide certain services of
[00:17:05] psychological and legal nature, they cannot
[00:17:09] start, they cannot be employed,
[00:17:12] and accordingly receive wages, so usually
[00:17:15] such support specialists are located at local government
[00:17:19] bodies at the level of the territorial community, and
[00:17:23] of course they have information about the number of veterans,
[00:17:27] who these people are, well, you know, in big cities
[00:17:31] it might be quite more difficult, in small cities everyone knows
[00:17:35] everyone, so they... try
[00:17:38] to find access, because veterans are different, needs
[00:17:41] are different, they all gain combat
[00:17:45] experience, but this experience and its negative impact on
[00:17:48] a person's psyche and health are also different, someone
[00:17:52] returning to civilian life in wartime,
[00:17:56] gaining the status of a veteran, quickly restores
[00:17:59] their professional identity, or takes a grant for their own
[00:18:03] business, or gets a job in
[00:18:07] state or municipal enterprises,
[00:18:11] or returns to their previous job in their previous work collective, someone,
[00:18:15] for example, just wants to rest and not do anything for half a year,
[00:18:18] so depending on the state this
[00:18:22] person is in, what specific or special
[00:18:26] needs they have, whether the person has a disability or not
[00:18:28] a disability, there are many nuances, also many categories of
[00:18:32] veterans, as combat participants, and
[00:18:35] a support specialist must.
[00:18:38] In fact, just as the patronage service works at the brigade level, which we discussed, in
[00:18:41] the Third Assault and in Azov, here the support specialist deals with
[00:18:45] case management of an individual and
[00:18:49] guides them individually, helping with,
[00:18:52] including some documents, with
[00:18:55] submitting this package of documents, with receiving benefits, with
[00:18:59] informing and so on, that is, full support, and
[00:19:02] quite often I observe situations
[00:19:06] when... active veterans
[00:19:09] who have demobilized, returned to civilian life in their
[00:19:12] communities, retrained
[00:19:15] and become veteran support specialists, and in this way they
[00:19:19] have this principle, peer-to-peer, when
[00:19:22] a person with similar or similar experience
[00:19:25] understands the challenges faced by a veteran
[00:19:28] and can provide these services very well
[00:19:32] and effectively. I understand that they also work with
[00:19:36] families of servicemen. Support specialists, that is, they can
[00:19:40] provide this information and help with some specific document processing,
[00:19:43] with collecting documents and similar things, when a person
[00:19:46] received this terrible news.
[00:19:50] They, they work specifically with families, with
[00:19:53] the veteran and the veteran's family, this means that
[00:19:57] the person is a combat participant and they are
[00:19:59] demobilized.
[00:20:02] Ms. Iryna, let's return to the patronage service, I would like to ask
[00:20:05] something else, is it really useful, it seems to me, to provide
[00:20:09] families with this information, because I understand, well, since in practice we have already
[00:20:13] talked about this, yes, a person
[00:20:15] receives news that a relative is missing from
[00:20:19] the TCC and that's it, at this point the function of the TCC ends
[00:20:22] in practice, and then people look for some
[00:20:26] information themselves, and I know
[00:20:29] cases where families reached out to Russians
[00:20:32] in their search, and this is a big problem, because very often they
[00:20:36] actually, actually deceive families, extort
[00:20:39] money, how can we help them here, how to
[00:20:42] explain that they don't need to
[00:20:46] contact them, that they need to contact verified sources, certain
[00:20:51] structures, what needs to be done in this
[00:20:54] story? Well, actually, after the family
[00:20:57] receives news that a member of their
[00:21:01] family, husband, wife, brother or
[00:21:04] sister is in the status of a missing person,
[00:21:07] they should then write corresponding applications
[00:21:10] to the national police, and
[00:21:13] then, having received, having written
[00:21:16] the application, having received the relevant documents, they can already apply
[00:21:19] through the CNAP, but with a complete package of documents regarding
[00:21:23] appropriate accruals, receiving benefits and so on. It seems to me that at
[00:21:27] the stage when they turn to the police and write,
[00:21:30] submit the relevant documents, there should
[00:21:33] be information provided to these people
[00:21:37] in order to protect them from
[00:21:40] further possible communication through
[00:21:43] these unauthorized various
[00:21:46] networks, chats, where
[00:21:50] this risk arises when the Russians
[00:21:53] manipulate the grief of an individual family.
[00:21:57] You already said that after the TCC, people go to
[00:22:00] the police, then they go to the CNAP, so this is such a long chain that
[00:22:04] people with grief must go through after the tragic
[00:22:07] news, and is it possible to create some kind of single structure,
[00:22:10] perhaps it has already been discussed, they talked about it, to allocate,
[00:22:14] for example, one day a week or two days a week, so that all these representatives...
[00:22:18] That is, the TCC, the police, this
[00:22:20] CNAP representative, they would all be in one place, so that a person
[00:22:24] could come and submit all these
[00:22:27] documents, get all this information, and not go to different
[00:22:30] structures, and you know, it often happens in our country that they also send from one
[00:22:34] office to another.
[00:22:37] I generally believe, if you ask my personal opinion, I believe that
[00:22:40] a person should write only one application, and the state as
[00:22:44] the holder of this information,
[00:22:47] classified, with the stamp of a state
[00:22:50] secret, which is not subject to dissemination,
[00:22:53] should collect this entire package of documents and simply
[00:22:57] inform the family about the stages and timeframes,
[00:23:00] when, in what order, in what amount they will receive
[00:23:04] additional payments, benefits, or what to do, when to expect
[00:23:08] some kind of answer, because you understand how many Ukrainian
[00:23:12] families for the fifth year know nothing
[00:23:15] about their family
[00:23:18] members, who are still listed
[00:23:22] as missing, and this number, unfortunately, will only
[00:23:25] increase. We understand that with such high intensity of combat operations that
[00:23:29] are currently taking place on the front, and not
[00:23:32] only on the front, it seems to me that in principle, in the conditions in which we now
[00:23:36] live in large cities, and with
[00:23:39] these 10-15 alarms and constant
[00:23:42] shelling, it is quite difficult, so
[00:23:46] the single window principle, and when a person writes one application, and the
[00:23:50] state then deals with
[00:23:52] synchronization between different structures, between the TCC, between
[00:23:56] the police, between the coordination headquarters, which
[00:23:58] deals with prisoner exchanges, because
[00:24:02] you know that those who are in the status of missing persons, sometimes
[00:24:06] situations arise that during
[00:24:09] prisoner exchanges, these people return to their homeland.home,
[00:24:13] that also happens, so I think
[00:24:17] that 100% of Ukrainian families in them... hope does not die, and
[00:24:21] they hope that someday they will be able
[00:24:23] to see
[00:24:25] their, their relatives, they are definitely
[00:24:28] waiting, Ms. Iryna, and if we talk about communities, yes,
[00:24:32] that help families of the missing,
[00:24:35] I know a case, for example, that in Bila Tserkva
[00:24:39] families themselves were forced to go to the city council so that
[00:24:42] it would pay attention to them, that is, there were some active
[00:24:46] wives who initiated, for example, a square
[00:24:49] that... needs to be done, moreover, they went to the city
[00:24:52] council and forced them to collect this list, that is, the city council
[00:24:56] did not even know the entire list of families that are in
[00:25:00] their community, who among them is missing,
[00:25:03] and actually, does anyone control how
[00:25:07] communities are treated, families of the missing
[00:25:10] in communities, and what should people do in such
[00:25:13] cases? Well, there are more active
[00:25:17] communities, there are less active communities. They
[00:25:20] react differently and communicate.
[00:25:23] Someone communicates well, someone communicates poorly. It seems to me
[00:25:27] that here it is necessary to set requirements
[00:25:30] through deputies of city councils, who
[00:25:33] represent people in local
[00:25:36] self-government bodies. The same applies
[00:25:40] to people's deputies, because in
[00:25:43] every community of Ukraine there is definitely a representative in parliament,
[00:25:46] and I would recommend contacting and going to...
[00:25:50] receptions of deputies of city, village councils,
[00:25:53] regional, district, and also to people's deputies,
[00:25:57] who definitely communicate
[00:26:01] with communities, with... their heads, leaders, and at
[00:26:04] the level of the military-civilian administration, and can raise certain
[00:26:08] issues and budget allocation and
[00:26:11] using instruments of petitions, and written
[00:26:15] appeals on behalf of public organizations, if such a legal entity
[00:26:19] is registered, if it's just an initiative group and
[00:26:22] several families have united their efforts to achieve
[00:26:26] the creation of a square, then it seems to me
[00:26:29] that initiative is needed, and of course. that
[00:26:33] pressure, I would say, of a political nature, through
[00:26:37] deputies of different levels, who are representatives of people in
[00:26:41] one or another Ukrainian city or community. In
[00:26:44] conclusion, Ms. Iryna, what do families say about the problem
[00:26:47] of qualified psychologists? For example, a person comes
[00:26:50] to the police to give these testimonies,
[00:26:54] right? When a relative is missing, and
[00:26:57] there is an ordinary policeman, an ordinary investigator,
[00:27:01] who takes these... testimonies from them, and it seems to me that
[00:27:05] here we need to talk precisely about the training of psychologists or the training
[00:27:08] of those investigators who should communicate with such families, because this is
[00:27:12] truly grief, and
[00:27:15] in general, is any work being done now, or
[00:27:18] is such a question generally being raised, like qualified
[00:27:21] psychologists for communicating with
[00:27:23] families, at the stage before collecting
[00:27:26] documents?
[00:27:30] Well, at the stage, as you said, when a family comes in, right? And files a report
[00:27:34] with the police, right? When they received a notice, notification that
[00:27:38] a member of their family was listed as missing,
[00:27:41] then, of course, by law there is no such requirement for
[00:27:45] a psychologist to be present during such a conversation. There is a requirement only
[00:27:49] for the presence of a psychologist for a minor, but
[00:27:52] of course, one family or another, being in different psychological and mental
[00:27:56] states, they can petition that
[00:27:59] as an authorized person, a psychologist they either
[00:28:03] hire themselves, there is no such state service
[00:28:06] as of today, or they will arrange with
[00:28:10] psychologists who work with various public
[00:28:13] organizations, representatives of civil society. Such
[00:28:17] organizations also exist. If we generally talk about
[00:28:20] the training of psychologists throughout the country, then
[00:28:24] it is obvious that there are not enough of them, their number will
[00:28:27] only increase.
[00:28:29] The same applies to...
[00:28:32] prosthetists, orthotists, we did not
[00:28:35] have such a specialty in medical faculties even 10 years
[00:28:38] ago, let alone 5 years ago, so a prosthetist could
[00:28:42] be a person without a higher medical education, and in fact it is still
[00:28:46] the case. It was only after the relevant requirements and
[00:28:50] a transitional period were prescribed, that within five to eight years
[00:28:54] all prosthetists-orthotists must receive medical education. You understand that
[00:28:57] it's at least 5 years, right? If we deprive everyone of
[00:29:01] accreditation now, then we won't... be left at all, we will be left
[00:29:04] with zero prosthetists, as they say. The same
[00:29:07] applies to psychologists, civilian psychologists, there can
[00:29:11] be a large number of them in Ukraine, who
[00:29:14] are getting an education, or are already providing services as professional
[00:29:18] psychologists, but here it is worth talking about the fact that we will definitely
[00:29:21] need them now, and especially in the post-war period, when
[00:29:25] there will be a huge wave of demobilization, precisely
[00:29:27] military psychologists or psychologists who know how
[00:29:31] to work with combat. my with PTSD, this
[00:29:34] is a slightly different specialization, it's like, you know, in
[00:29:38] principle in medicine, yes, there is a surgeon, there is a therapist, there is a neuropathologist
[00:29:41] and so on, in psychology it's similar, no, no, if you have
[00:29:45] a psychologist's specialty, that doesn't mean that you can help a person
[00:29:49] who, conditionally speaking, was in captivity or received
[00:29:53] such a combat injury PTSD and cannot generally integrate and
[00:29:56] adapt to civilian life, so here retraining is needed, not
[00:30:00] two-month courses. I completed courses online,
[00:30:03] received a certificate and am ready to provide support. Now
[00:30:07] there are many such people, it seems to me that this
[00:30:10] even worsens the situation, because if you do not have the appropriate
[00:30:13] competence, you can exclusively harm a person and
[00:30:17] make their condition worse than it was before the person started
[00:30:20] communicating with such a quasi-psychologist, there will be a huge challenge, and it seems
[00:30:24] to me that we will not, we are already a nation of traumatized people,
[00:30:28] who will need the services
[00:30:31] of a psychotherapist. for a very long period of time, this is not
[00:30:34] only military veterans and well,
[00:30:38] defenders, but also civilian population,
[00:30:41] which is constantly under
[00:30:44] shelling, these are our children, children of war,
[00:30:47] who do not have access to education, who grow up in shelters, at
[00:30:51] school or at home, so yes, you are raising an
[00:30:54] absolutely relevant and correct question,
[00:30:58] that in the future we...