ESPRESO — broadcast
20261011 030000 UTC
449 transcript segments
Google Cloud Speech-to-Text API (Chirp) + Gemini 2.5 Flash Non-Thinking
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[00:00:00] while they are with her in union, uh-huh, and
[00:00:03] if they refuse this union, she
[00:00:06] reserves the right to such
[00:00:08] claims,
[00:00:11] that is, it was immediately said that the former Soviet republics
[00:00:14] are located in some foreign territories,
[00:00:17] Russian ones, and that their territories are such generous
[00:00:21] gifts of Russia, which she is ready not to take away if they
[00:00:24] are all under her, together with her, in
[00:00:27] allied relations, uh-huh. Uh-huh, so the West slept through this
[00:00:31] statement, well, because at that time it didn't seem very important, no, we somehow
[00:00:35] tried to react to it, but no one
[00:00:38] disavowed it, well, and then the most important thing was something else, everyone
[00:00:42] thought that we would always be in allied relations, where would they go?
[00:00:46] Don't forget that in August 1991, work on
[00:00:49] the Union Treaty was still ongoing. Many people generally believed that Ukraine would
[00:00:53] sign it. And in the world, little was known about Ukraine,
[00:00:57] Chernobyl, there, and then. practically
[00:01:00] the work of the great Russian writer, Nobel
[00:01:04] laureate Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "How We
[00:01:06] Should Rebuild Russia," was published, in which it was clearly stated, it was said that
[00:01:10] the future Russian state should consist of Russia, Ukraine,
[00:01:13] Belarus, and part, as Solzhenitsyn intelligently said, of
[00:01:17] "bloated Kazakhstan." That is, it was also clear that a large
[00:01:21] part of Kazakh territories were also not Kazakhstan.
[00:01:25] Then there was an interview with
[00:01:28] St. Petersburg Governor Anatoly Sobchak,
[00:01:31] whose deputy was Putin, and Sobchak
[00:01:34] also said in that interview publicly and in his
[00:01:38] speeches that Ukraine is located on territories that are not its own,
[00:01:42] uh-huh, and that if it wants to remain in the Soviet
[00:01:45] Union or in allied relations with Russia, then it must
[00:01:48] sacrifice these territories, yes, let it stay in Lviv and
[00:01:52] Ternopil, if that's accurate, and I myself remember a similar
[00:01:56] conversation with Sobchak, in the presence of Putin, by the way,
[00:01:59] in... the mayor's office of St. Petersburg, I heard this with my
[00:02:02] own ears, yes, from Sobchak, complete
[00:02:06] conviction in this, that is, that is, Ukraine is a purely Galician
[00:02:09] project, well, that's also like, you know, these are lands,
[00:02:13] Galician lands also conquered by the Soviet soldier, not
[00:02:17] by anyone else, from their point of view, well, that is,
[00:02:21] Ukraine is Novorossiya, Malorossiya, and
[00:02:24] the western regions, to be precise in this
[00:02:28] terminology, so. Since 1991, I
[00:02:32] have heard all the time that the collapse of the Soviet Union was
[00:02:35] a mistake,
[00:02:39] in the FSB they always call it the mistake of 1991, and
[00:02:42] that it needs to be corrected.
[00:02:46] Many Russian politicians believed that the creation of
[00:02:49] the Commonwealth of Independent States was
[00:02:52] the correction of this mistake, the first step towards the creation of such
[00:02:55] a counter-state,
[00:02:58] in which there would be a common army, a common currency, common banks, and all of this
[00:03:01] would be controlled from Moscow, there would simply be Yeltsin instead of Gorbachev
[00:03:05] and the CIS instead of the USSR, and if you
[00:03:08] remember, in the first decade, approximately from
[00:03:12] 1991 to about 2000 under
[00:03:15] Putin, Russians generally said that they live in
[00:03:19] Esengovia, look at all the old films of
[00:03:23] the 90s, there is
[00:03:25] practically no word Russia there, there is
[00:03:28] CIS, where we... we live in the CIS, we
[00:03:32] lived in Ukraine, conditional Estonians in Estonia, conditional Kazakhs in
[00:03:35] Kazakhstan, and Russians lived in
[00:03:37] the CIS, because they could not agree with the fact
[00:03:41] that their state is not theirs, but even, even I will interrupt you and
[00:03:45] with us it was the same until the 2000s, this constant
[00:03:48] reminder of the CIS
[00:03:51] countries, we are in the CIS space, that is,
[00:03:55] that is, we still don't know exactly what percentage of Ukrainians, I don't remember,
[00:03:59] call themselves Europeans, confidently Europeans, and
[00:04:03] then it was generally minuscule, yes, of course, because, that is, the identification of oneself
[00:04:07] with that post-Soviet union, it remained very strong,
[00:04:10] and interest in Russian political life was higher than
[00:04:13] interest in Ukrainian, in Russian TV channels more than
[00:04:16] in Ukrainian, all this,
[00:04:19] remember, when did the first Ukrainian
[00:04:22] TV channels even appear?
[00:04:25] STB, 1+1, this will already be the mid-
[00:04:28] 90s, yes. Yes, and before
[00:04:32] that we watched, of course, there was Ukrainian state television, but it never
[00:04:36] enjoyed great popularity, but people watched Russian
[00:04:39] channels, the first channel, then NTV
[00:04:41] appeared, people sat for hours
[00:04:44] watching
[00:04:46] the program with our colleague Yevgeny Kiselev, it was about Russian
[00:04:50] politics, let it be independent television,
[00:04:53] but it was about Russia, Ukraine was there in passing, but people
[00:04:56] continued to perceive their capital there, well, and... Russians thought
[00:05:00] that it would be like that, and then
[00:05:02] suddenly,
[00:05:05] I think that even things like the creation of the Ukrainian army, the hryvnia and so on, were already
[00:05:09] some moments of betrayal, but betrayal that can be reversed.
[00:05:12] Back, uh-huh, and then of course the Orange Revolution,
[00:05:16] that was already a very serious moment of
[00:05:19] disappointment, very, it became clear that something had to be done
[00:05:22] radically, and so they began to prepare, to prepare,
[00:05:25] yes, so
[00:05:29] to say that all this can be reduced to Putin, that's a huge mistake, this is, by
[00:05:33] the way, very interesting, because for Ukrainians, it seems to me very easy, we
[00:05:36] got a little stuck, we even said this just now during the break for
[00:05:40] commercials, that we, it seems to me, got a little stuck in this
[00:05:42] stage when we are looking for who is to blame, we
[00:05:46] cannot move on to the next stage, what to do, yes,
[00:05:50] well, because, because we always want, for example,
[00:05:53] we can even now spend a lot of
[00:05:56] time discussing whether it was better to
[00:05:59] prepare for the war or not, Poroshenko is to blame for us not
[00:06:03] preparing, or Zelensky, well, this is all
[00:06:06] probably, I always knew what to do, I have no
[00:06:09] questions about it, when there was the annexation of Crimea.
[00:06:13] A well-known Russian politician
[00:06:16] and diplomat called me, he already died, from such, I would
[00:06:19] say, Yeltsin's cohort, right of perestroika and all that, and he
[00:06:23] apologized to me,
[00:06:27] here is a man with such a
[00:06:28] background,
[00:06:32] and he said that he, well, he was already retired, nothing could be
[00:06:35] done, but he was in such, it was such a collapse of his political
[00:06:39] hopes, because he was exactly the person who wanted to
[00:06:42] build relations between the two states, he was an absolute Russian,
[00:06:46] he said, statesman, even of the imperial type, but he believed that Russia, even as an empire, should
[00:06:49] build relations with Ukraine as a state, and then all this collapsed,
[00:06:53] it was clear, well, and I ask him, because we were good friends, we talked a lot
[00:06:57] about many things, what should we do, well, in such a way, you know, as
[00:07:00] people ask a person of older age, who is 80
[00:07:04] years old, how many and
[00:07:07] some recipe, how to do it, you need to dig in,
[00:07:10] prepare for war. In
[00:07:13] 2005, we definitely turned in the direction of war,
[00:07:17] but we didn't want to believe it, well, that's it, that is, digging in, that's
[00:07:20] the idea, that is, there is a simple
[00:07:23] choice, either fight back or disappear, fighting back absolutely does not
[00:07:27] mean victory over Russia,
[00:07:29] uh-huh, as many believe, we must
[00:07:32] end the war with victory over Russia, you are a party of
[00:07:36] war that wants to defeat Russia, I, you
[00:07:39] know, always say that you will not defeat Russia, Russia is... one of the most serious
[00:07:43] states in the modern world, yes, it does not have enough army, it does not have enough,
[00:07:47] perhaps money, but it has great demographic potential, it has,
[00:07:51] most importantly, its people have an absolute instinct
[00:07:54] of imperial offensive, so Russia is Russia, that's why we were part of
[00:07:58] Russia, and not vice versa, if it were vice versa, it would be a Ukrainian empire, not
[00:08:01] a Russian one, these are such people, this is such a nation, an imperial nation,
[00:08:04] ready to sacrifice millions of people, on both sides of the
[00:08:07] war, for
[00:08:10] the sake of greatness. And the only way for us to win in this
[00:08:14] situation is to stop them, not
[00:08:17] to win, not to think about how Russia
[00:08:20] will collapse,
[00:08:23] Putin will be judged in The Hague, no, Russia can
[00:08:26] remain on our borders as it is, changing
[00:08:30] its paradigm, we don't know
[00:08:31] this,
[00:08:35] but we can become either a country
[00:08:37] that
[00:08:41] will be outside
[00:08:44] Russia, a conditional Outer
[00:08:47] Mongolia, in relation to China, or an Inner
[00:08:50] Mongolia, or here, or
[00:08:52] there.
[00:08:56] There is no other way in nature. If they
[00:08:59] see that we are too much for them, they
[00:09:02] will calm down for a certain time. And they can even
[00:09:05] invent a story for themselves that we are not Russians, just as they
[00:09:09] invented that we are Russians, well, they are trying to turn Finns
[00:09:12] and Poles now, but they wanted, of course, and always wanted, in
[00:09:16] the 19th century brochures were still published in St. Petersburg, where
[00:09:18] it was explained why the Polish language is not really a language, but a dialect, of course, that it is
[00:09:22] one people, only of the Catholic faith, I read with my own eyes that
[00:09:26] Russians and Poles are one people, I read this,
[00:09:30] and well, it's just that there are
[00:09:33] Great Russians, Little Russians, and Belarusians, and Poles are just people who
[00:09:37] converted to Catholicism, but it's the same
[00:09:39] people, that is, we
[00:09:53] well, in principle, the builder of our state, you somehow seem to
[00:09:56] have said something like that about Kuchma, he actually
[00:09:59] tried to build the main
[00:10:02] message to Moscow on this, that Ukraine is not
[00:10:05] Russia, but he tried to somehow
[00:10:09] build multi-vectorism, that is...
[00:10:13] to hold between Ukraine and
[00:10:16] the Western civilization and
[00:10:20] the Russian Empire. You understand, Kuchma
[00:10:23] came to the conclusion, which was probably very radical for him,
[00:10:27] that Ukraine is not Russia, and for us, we need to come to the conclusion that
[00:10:31] Ukraine is Ukraine, because
[00:10:33] this idea that Ukraine is not Russia is generally inherent in the Ukrainian
[00:10:37] national spirit, that we must
[00:10:40] react to what Russia
[00:10:42] does,
[00:10:44] if Russia is bad towards us, we will be bad, good, well,
[00:10:48] good, and this is why, because we are not
[00:10:52] Russia, and look... all
[00:10:55] our state decisions, all of them are dictated by Russia, you say that
[00:10:59] Kuchma is the builder of our state, but Putin is the builder of our state, is
[00:11:01] he a true builder? Well,
[00:11:05] actually, I'm saying a blasphemous thought now, but to a certain
[00:11:08] extent, the fact that
[00:11:12] Bandera became one of our cornerstones, on
[00:11:15] which modern identity is now built, this is also,
[00:11:19] to a large extent, a merit of hatred, the hatred of Russians for
[00:11:23] Bandera, hatred. And how it used to be for
[00:11:26] Petliura, and before that it was for Mazepa, that is, not Bolbadzhan, but
[00:11:30] Petliura, conventionally speaking, Mazepists, Petliurites,
[00:11:33] Banderites, yes, that's how Ukrainians were consistently called,
[00:11:37] before Bandera, Ukrainians were also called something, they were called Petliurites,
[00:11:41] and before Petliura, how were they called? Mazepists,
[00:11:44] okay, so who are all these
[00:11:47] people? These are supporters of the national-state
[00:11:50] project,
[00:11:53] and a figure is chosen that seems
[00:11:56] radical. Mazepa is perceived as the most
[00:11:59] radical of the hetmans, Petliura as the most
[00:12:01] radical of the figures of the Ukrainian People's
[00:12:05] Republic, Bandera is simply perceived as the most radical of the figures
[00:12:08] of the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists.
[00:12:11] They could have chosen someone else, yes, but Bandera seemed very bright
[00:12:15] also because, you know, why else? Because it was always possible to combine
[00:12:19] one's own hatred with the hatred of some other people
[00:12:22] and... or create hatred for their people, and therefore
[00:12:26] prove the justice of their claims, this was the case with Petliura, who was accused of
[00:12:29] Jewish pogroms, Petliura, who was essentially a Judeophile, who had a
[00:12:33] Ministry of Jewish Affairs,
[00:12:36] who appealed
[00:12:39] with a demand to the troops that they not commit
[00:12:43] Jewish pogroms, whose officers, among whom was
[00:12:46] Colonel Melnyk, shot people for Jewish pogroms, but
[00:12:49] the pogroms were, they were terrible, they were massive, they were bloody,
[00:12:53] cities were destroyed. to the last
[00:12:55] person,
[00:12:58] the leaders of the Ukrainian People's Republic simply did not have real control over
[00:13:01] their own army in this situation after the revolutionary
[00:13:04] chaos, and so they used this, created
[00:13:08] this story of the murder of Petliura by
[00:13:11] Shvartsbard, a court case where people come
[00:13:15] who talk about pogroms, they are not lying, they just connect them with
[00:13:19] the name of Petliura himself, and so
[00:13:22] not just a Russian, but
[00:13:25] a Russian-Jewish myth about Petliura is created,
[00:13:29] or a Polish-Russian myth about
[00:13:32] Bandera, uh-huh, also, it's not the Russians with him,
[00:13:35] it's the Poles, they hate him, and
[00:13:39] the Russians just confirm, yes, this is a radical figure, actually, the
[00:13:43] Russians don't have any particular questions, as they do with other Ukrainian nationalists, they know everything
[00:13:47] about these, look at
[00:13:48] the Poles,
[00:13:53] well, that's all. That is, they work
[00:13:56] masterfully, Mazepa was
[00:13:59] to be an enemy not only of the Russian state, but also of
[00:14:03] the church, it was necessary to declare him anathema, remember
[00:14:06] that the church, this church of the UOC of the Moscow
[00:14:10] Patriarchate, it achieved the renaming of this part of
[00:14:13] the street, uh-huh, where there was, where there is
[00:14:16] the Lavra, well, now it has returned to the Lavra
[00:14:20] street from Mazepa street, yes, well,
[00:14:23] that is, they always need some other
[00:14:26] cornerstone that they will use other
[00:14:30] peoples or institutions to confirm this,
[00:14:33] essentially, the most important thing
[00:14:35] for Russia is to maintain this connection, this
[00:14:38] connection can be interpreted differently, it can be somewhere, I don't know, from
[00:14:42] the perspective of post-colonial studies, that is, it's
[00:14:46] about relations with,
[00:14:50] let's say, Creoles and
[00:14:53] and the metropolis, and so on, but it seems to me that it's
[00:14:57] productive to just think about how we can, well,
[00:15:01] just move away from that, and just say that we don't care what Russians
[00:15:04] think about it, it seems to me that this is the healthiest thought, actually, we
[00:15:08] don't care what Russians think about this or
[00:15:12] that issue, yes, we no longer care, we constantly see what is being said,
[00:15:15] that we need to take their opinion into account, otherwise they will
[00:15:18] fight, well, actually, even President Zelensky says, we will
[00:15:21] respond symmetrically to what Russia
[00:15:25] will do.
[00:15:28] This is a strange statement, well, this is also a question, either we
[00:15:32] respond symmetrically to them, they respond symmetrically to us, actually our
[00:15:36] task is to make sure that they don't interfere, we
[00:15:39] don't need to respond to them symmetrically or unsymmetrically, we need to find their
[00:15:43] vulnerable points that will not allow them to continue fighting, that is, to bring their
[00:15:47] economy to its knees, their state to its knees, and do so that they do not get up
[00:15:51] for as long as possible, so that they crawl
[00:15:54] on their knees, and then maybe they will leave us alone, because
[00:15:58] any other chances to believe that they will leave us alone in
[00:16:01] some real future, they do not have such chances, well,
[00:16:04] they do not exist, well, and therefore, again... we return to
[00:16:08] the birthday boy, the birthday boy simply expresses all
[00:16:11] these, I would
[00:16:12] say
[00:16:16] chauvinistic, in Russia they would say "okhotnoryadcheskiye"
[00:16:19] tendencies, because there was Okhotny Ryad, this is a street in Moscow, I studied
[00:16:23] on it, but when I didn't study on it, before that
[00:16:26] there were meat shops in
[00:16:29] Okhotny Ryad, uh-huh, and these people who were in the meat shops, they are like
[00:16:33] people who supported Hitler in Germany, this is this social
[00:16:36] stratum, they were. Black Hundreds, chauvinists, and they were ready to
[00:16:40] fight, well, you know, they knew how to work with
[00:16:42] an axe, like with a plow in
[00:16:46] our version, and
[00:16:50] they expressed all these chauvinistic
[00:16:53] popular sentiments, so these people were called, like
[00:16:57] Putin, they would be called in Russia
[00:16:58] Okhotnoryadtsy,
[00:17:01] they were from this street Okhotny Ryad in Moscow, and this
[00:17:05] he fully expresses the expressiveness of the mentality, but no one
[00:17:08] said that the next Russian president will not be
[00:17:11] the same, because this is the popular mentality.
[00:17:15] Putin is simply a person who expresses this popular
[00:17:18] mentality. And here the question is, his
[00:17:21] successor, who will one day be,
[00:17:24] he will simply believe that Ukraine can be captured by
[00:17:28] political, economic means, or it is necessary to continue fighting. That's all, this will be
[00:17:32] the dilemma that he will solve. Yes, just
[00:17:36] like Stalin's successors. They were not going to continue the Korean
[00:17:39] War, but they were going to confront the West differently, but this
[00:17:43] at least gave the West a little respite,
[00:17:45] for example, the same
[00:17:47] Estonia, at least,
[00:17:50] not
[00:17:52] Estonia, I meant Finland, of course, Finland, yes, and, but,
[00:17:56] but I, I mean, that we still have many examples in the 20th
[00:18:00] century, when in one way or another,
[00:18:03] death, a wound, it, it gave, opened some windows of opportunity.
[00:18:09] A lot of examples from Franco to Salazar, to the same Stalin, after whom
[00:18:12] the thaw began, well, it began, but you see, all Russian
[00:18:15] thaws, unlike what happened after the death of Stalin and
[00:18:19] Salazar, it ended, well, and but there is the same North
[00:18:22] Korea, where in principle the death of the leader means simply
[00:18:25] the transfer by inheritance, but there is already actually a hereditary
[00:18:29] dynasty, here there is Lubyanka, then it
[00:18:32] can also turn out to be, conditionally speaking, a dynasty of just a different character.
[00:18:36] Nobody knows
[00:18:38] this to the end,
[00:18:40] well, that is, I have quite
[00:18:44] serious questions about
[00:18:47] how much we can talk
[00:18:50] about what is happening with the Russian elite and what
[00:18:53] it will be like after Putin's departure, but now we need to
[00:18:57] think about how to live with Putin's Russia,
[00:19:01] how capable Putin's Russia
[00:19:04] is of retreating from the idea of war.
[00:19:08] But you see, is the current Russian system itself,
[00:19:12] which Putin built, not over-centralized? Well,
[00:19:15] this week we talked, in particular, with the young French
[00:19:19] researcher Osind
[00:19:22] Klement Molin, who actually, what
[00:19:25] happened now, if I correctly understand what happened,
[00:19:29] we are now having a very successful offensive, which also happened
[00:19:32] because Putin is constantly lied to about
[00:19:36] very great successes, and since they are constantly
[00:19:39] lying about great successes, then accordingly, their units
[00:19:43] supposedly appear on maps already in completely different
[00:19:46] territories, accordingly, this
[00:19:49] stretches all their logistics, because
[00:19:53] they somehow have to comply with what they declare and just makes them
[00:19:56] vulnerable at the front, that is, in fact, the lie that
[00:20:00] was built makes them weak, but this
[00:20:03] lie, this whole performance is actually for one spectator, for Putin.
[00:20:07] And therefore his death probably would have had some certain
[00:20:10] consequences, well, again, this
[00:20:13] is, a conversation about some such things that can
[00:20:17] happen, maybe in 10 years it will happen, and the most important thing
[00:20:20] is something else, are you sure that another
[00:20:23] person will want to receive truthful information about what
[00:20:25] is happening, the first candidate to receive truthful
[00:20:29] information should be Putin himself, he is a career officer of the Federal Security
[00:20:33] Service of the Russian Federation, before that the KGB of the USSR, well...
[00:20:37] in principle, he didn't serve in the FSB, he served in the KGB. Uh-huh. All
[00:20:41] employees of the State Security Committee of the USSR knew
[00:20:44] that the leadership only wants such distilled information, that
[00:20:48] party workers do not like it when they are told
[00:20:51] the truth, this
[00:20:55] is a quite important
[00:20:58] moment
[00:21:00] which
[00:21:03] eee one way or another is connected
[00:21:06] with, uh-huh,
[00:21:09] a real,
[00:21:12] a real, I would say,
[00:21:16] such
[00:21:19] a turning point in... in the situation
[00:21:22] of the Russian leadership, a person from the KGB comes, who knows
[00:21:25] that subordinates always lie, uh-huh, well, she should
[00:21:28] have told them: listen, I am not a party worker, I am not from
[00:21:32] Yeltsin's school, I am from yours, don't lie to me,
[00:21:35] but this is happening, well, simply Trump has his
[00:21:38] accounts, he clearly writes something there
[00:21:41] himself, I don't know, Medvedev has his accounts, Zelensky has his
[00:21:45] accounts, everyone has their accounts, Joe Biden, Putin, Putin is an old-school person, he
[00:21:49] doesn't want to write in accounts, he governs the country differently, well, and the question is, in
[00:21:53] the 21st century, can one relevantly
[00:21:56] is happening if one is completely disconnected from
[00:22:00] social networks, or does one then become an object of manipulation?
[00:22:03] Well, by the way, Trump writes in his accounts. Here is
[00:22:07] a new statement from Trump. I don't know if you saw it? Zelensky
[00:22:11] wants to create problems for the whole world, he could have ended the war countless
[00:22:14] times already. It's time for Ukraine to choose a new
[00:22:17] leader. Here you go. Much
[00:22:20] more interesting statements
[00:22:23] than
[00:22:29] the statement
[00:22:32] about barrels of oil, well, and here I just
[00:22:36] fantasize, what if Roosevelt, for example, somewhere
[00:22:39] around 1940, says that
[00:22:42] Jews generally create a lot of problems for the world, why Jews,
[00:22:45] Churchill, well, for example, either Churchill, or Churchill, so deal with
[00:22:49] this. Somehow
[00:22:53] - this is also new, actually, well, let's say
[00:22:56] that, Trump was offended by
[00:23:00] the Nobel Committee, that they did not give him the Nobel
[00:23:04] Prize and
[00:23:06] imposed sanctions against the International Criminal Court, because Novali
[00:23:10] uredka, the judge
[00:23:13] of the International Criminal Court,
[00:23:16] now
[00:23:19] Zelensky said that this is a weak decision, to negotiate with
[00:23:22] Putin about diesel, Trump was offended by
[00:23:26] Zelensky, just yesterday he was saying how wonderful
[00:23:30] Zelensky was and so on,
[00:23:33] and now he talks
[00:23:36] about a new leader of
[00:23:38] Ukraine, and this is actually the path to what? To
[00:23:42] rejection, rejection of aid to
[00:23:45] Ukraine, Ukraine says, what new leader, what are you talking
[00:23:48] about? Let's declare a truce with Russia and hold
[00:23:52] elections, which will have a new
[00:23:55] leader,
[00:23:58] oh, so you don't want a new leader, you don't want to listen to
[00:24:02] the United
[00:24:02] States?
[00:24:08] This, frankly, we, we, we, lately, international
[00:24:12] politics is turning into some kind of actually biased and very good
[00:24:15] quality, and I can only repeat what we have said many times,
[00:24:19] perhaps. The problem is that the United States, despite the fact that they have,
[00:24:22] of course, every right to consider themselves
[00:24:25] the founders of a democratic type,
[00:24:28] the shaping of a democratic country for the world, but perhaps their system
[00:24:32] is simply outdated, and we see that
[00:24:36] the system gives extremely great powers, received by one person,
[00:24:39] the winner of the elections, it, it, it seems in the 21st
[00:24:43] century just works worse and worse, only this I
[00:30:33] a few, probably minutes ago information appeared on
[00:30:37] CBS, it seems, that CBS News, they were the first to
[00:30:40] report it, the American channel, President
[00:30:44] Trump stated that Ukraine needs a new
[00:30:47] president, this news is now just, like a
[00:30:51] wildfire spreading throughout
[00:30:53] the whole world, well and this is truly,
[00:30:57] how do I comment on this?