ESPRESO — broadcast
20261011 113000 UTC
540 transcript segments
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[00:00:00] developed with chronicles, with
[00:00:03] churches, golden domes,
[00:00:07] churches, with streets, with trade,
[00:00:10] pampered, pampered, yes, absolutely, here
[00:00:14] people came who just wanted to destroy all this,
[00:00:17] who didn't need all this, who needed
[00:00:21] power over the territory, so that they would pay them tribute for
[00:00:25] all this, they didn't want to have it, they didn't want to
[00:00:28] be...
[00:00:30] owners of all this, he needed the smartphones of that time, and
[00:00:34] he needed them to be given money, Russians are practically
[00:00:37] exactly unorganized,
[00:00:41] well, by the way, you remember that this is still a direct state,
[00:00:44] which is a direct heir of the Golden Horde, and why, because the Golden Horde, when
[00:00:48] it conquered all this, it also began to
[00:00:51] develop and fell, because
[00:00:54] it had already become a state of other
[00:00:57] values, well, then Moscow came to its place. in
[00:01:00] essence, well, this is a simple process, and
[00:01:04] Moscow is strong because it does not evolve,
[00:01:08] hmm, strangely enough, this is
[00:01:10] a strength to a certain extent, we are talking about the population of
[00:01:14] Ukraine, that they are expelling them, well, they are actually
[00:01:17] inspiring the expulsion of the population, fact,
[00:01:19] fact,
[00:01:22] but what do Moscow princes do first, when they receive this label for
[00:01:26] princedom and they think that they need to expand the borders of their principality.
[00:01:30] they annex, we need to see what year
[00:01:34] it is in the neighboring state, with the neighboring
[00:01:38] people, the Grand Duchy of
[00:01:40] Ryazan, hmm,
[00:01:44] so what, let's see what,
[00:01:47] what year
[00:01:48] it is,
[00:01:52] the Grand Duchy of Ryazan disappears from the
[00:01:55] political map in
[00:01:56] 1521.
[00:01:59] It exists for a very long time from 1129 to
[00:02:02] 1521, this, this is the 16th
[00:02:06] century, it's not like that, it's
[00:02:07] a serious
[00:02:11] period, and this, as you
[00:02:14] understand, is not even 35 years of
[00:02:17] Ukrainian independence, and so this state
[00:02:20] disappears under
[00:02:23] the pressure of Moscow, the Moscow prince
[00:02:27] becomes uh...
[00:02:31] actually
[00:02:35] the suzerain of
[00:02:38] the Ryazan principality in 1521,
[00:02:41] Grand Prince Ivan Ivanovich, the last one, is simply
[00:02:45] imprisoned
[00:02:46] in
[00:02:50] Moscow. What happens next? And I
[00:02:53] have to tell you that this is not in history textbooks. I
[00:02:56] read this in a book,
[00:02:59] dedicated to the history of the Grand Duchy of
[00:03:01] Ryazan,
[00:03:05] which I bought in Ryazan, in the Ryazan Kremlin, which was published during
[00:03:09] the time of the Romanov Empire, and it was written there what happened
[00:03:13] after that, because for unknown reasons,
[00:03:16] after the Romanov
[00:03:19] Empire, the Bolsheviks deleted it, and they don't talk about it,
[00:03:23] I read this wonderful
[00:03:25] story in this reprint.
[00:03:27] історію.
[00:03:30] It turns out that a few years after the Ryazan principality
[00:03:34] was,
[00:03:40] joined to Moscow, the first such territorial conquest, the Ryazans
[00:03:44] stage an uprising, hmm, asking to return
[00:03:47] their Grand Prince, who is even alive, he is somewhere in Moscow in captivity, or
[00:03:50] to give them some other, their own Grand Prince, they want to be
[00:03:54] Ryazans, they are Ryazans, hmm, not
[00:03:57] Muscovites, hmm.
[00:04:00] Moscow takes these Ryazans, as the chronicle says, and
[00:04:03] resettles them on the lands of the Moscow principality,
[00:04:07] and in their place resettles Russians,
[00:04:09] Muscovites. I think this is an intelligent
[00:04:13] description, because it's a Moscow chronicle. They just
[00:04:16] cut them all out half,
[00:04:20] and the other half they expelled, and the other half they expelled and that's it, well,
[00:04:24] that is, they immediately understood what needed to be done,
[00:04:27] they did it.
[00:04:30] Ryazans, no problem, no Ukrainians, no, it's just, you see, there are
[00:04:34] just too many Ukrainians, hmm, the Ukrainian people are saved by
[00:04:38] their numbers, but it is decreasing, and it is decreasing, but it is still
[00:04:41] a multi-million nation, but yes, yes,
[00:04:45] there were not many Ryazans, even, you understand,
[00:04:49] there isn't even Ryazan, the city that is called
[00:04:52] Ryazan, it's Pereyaslav-Ryazansky,
[00:04:55] a small provincial city in
[00:04:58] the Ryazan principality. And the capital of Ryazan itself,
[00:05:01] they
[00:05:04] liquidated it there, a fortified settlement, called
[00:05:07] Old Ryazan, that is, they deprived the Ryazans
[00:05:11] even of the memory of their long
[00:05:14] statehood, well, that is, Ryazan before that, when it became a state,
[00:05:17] was part of some principality, we will not delve into this
[00:05:20] northern Russian history now, which also was not Moscow, they
[00:05:24] were never Moscow, it was another civilization,
[00:05:27] well,
[00:05:30] how can you explain this now
[00:05:33] to people who live in Ryazan, who are not Ryazans,
[00:05:37] in fact, yes, in fact, you will come to Ryazan, oh, you know, you
[00:05:41] had a civilization here. Another identity, which is different, he is from
[00:05:44] Moscow,
[00:05:47] you will not find anyone from Ryazan,
[00:05:50] they are not there, they are all
[00:05:52] killed by Moscow
[00:05:55] warriors, so, if this happens all the time, which
[00:05:59] year did we record, 1521 or what,
[00:06:01] 1521, well, so,
[00:06:04] 1000,
[00:06:07] so, it's 500 years, so this state develops through
[00:06:10] territorial expansion. and destruction
[00:06:13] of enslaved tribes and peoples, so
[00:06:17] what do we want from it, and it does nothing else, well,
[00:06:20] and sometimes it flies into space and is very proud of it, but there is simply no one
[00:06:24] in space, it would have long ago resettled everyone there too, it just
[00:06:28] can't find candidates for resettlement there, and
[00:06:32] we
[00:06:34] are shouting the same thing to them, what the Ryazans are shouting, that we want our
[00:06:38] great prince, are you crazy, what great great prince Volodymyr.
[00:06:49] Here are all your relations with
[00:06:50] Moscow,
[00:06:54] and it surprises me that indeed this story, I love this Ryazan story very much, that
[00:06:58] it can't even be read anywhere, that if I hadn't
[00:07:01] traveled around Russia and read these old books,
[00:07:03] hmm, because there was this period in the 90s when they published these
[00:07:07] reprints,
[00:07:10] then I simply wouldn't have imagined any of this.
[00:07:13] how it all really developed, they simply falsified
[00:07:17] the entire history of Russian lands,
[00:07:20] completely,
[00:07:23] well, therefore, it can be said that they are indeed true
[00:07:26] heirs of the Horde statehood, well, I would actually like
[00:07:30] such chapters of history to be at least in Ukrainian textbooks,
[00:07:34] because this is extremely important to understand who we
[00:07:37] with, and I don't know if
[00:07:41] even after 35 years of independence, we have
[00:07:44] finally realized how important this is, an important
[00:07:47] element of statehood itself, the upbringing of
[00:07:50] people, uh, we still
[00:07:54] have a topic that I wanted to touch upon,
[00:07:57] uh this is actually
[00:08:01] a topic,
[00:08:05] uh, a topic, a topic, a topic, a topic, a topic of what we have,
[00:08:08] wait, wait, wait.
[00:08:14] Ah, yes, first of all, I would actually like us to finish
[00:08:17] the conversation about Russian strikes on Kyiv, we have
[00:08:21] such an interesting situation now, I saw
[00:08:23] that Serhiy Marchenko, there is such a popular blogger,
[00:08:27] wrote a post where he actually
[00:08:30] accused both the central government and the city government of not
[00:08:34] being ready, that they were poorly prepared,
[00:08:37] and this post became very viral,
[00:08:41] I don't know... yesterday there were 10,000 likes, so it can be
[00:08:45] roughly estimated that possibly a million people definitely
[00:08:48] watched it, and where, how relevant
[00:08:51] it is in general, on the one hand, to accuse someone, when we
[00:08:55] understand that Russia is actually hitting and hitting, and on the other
[00:08:58] hand, well, for example, I would be pleased to
[00:09:02] see a simple picture in front of the TV, at least,
[00:09:06] when President Zelensky,
[00:09:08] Volodymyr Klitschko, would shake hands, Vitaliy
[00:09:12] Klitschko, would shake hands and say that we are now
[00:09:15] working together, how to make Kyiv a city there,
[00:09:18] the head of the Kyiv City Military Administration, who must work with President
[00:09:22] Zelensky for such reasons, well, for example, the mayor of Kyiv has much
[00:09:25] fewer opportunities than the head of the Kyiv
[00:09:29] administration in this regard, we always forget that there is a real person with
[00:09:32] real power, that the mayor of Kyiv, when he is not the head of the city
[00:09:36] administration, has a very limited number of powers,
[00:09:39] simply traditionally the mayor of the city is simultaneously the head of the Kyiv
[00:09:43] administration, during the war this is not the case, these functions have been separated since
[00:09:47] 2022, it seems, well,
[00:09:50] Klitschko is such a, I would say façade mayor
[00:09:53] of the city, but in fact the vast majority of tasks
[00:09:57] lie with
[00:09:59] the head of
[00:10:01] the city's military administration, because Kyiv
[00:10:05] is equated to the regions of Ukraine, and the regions also have military
[00:10:09] administrations, in fact, the main question should be... to
[00:10:12] the president and to the heads of the administration, to these administrations, because in Kyiv even
[00:10:16] the districts are governed by the heads of the administration,
[00:10:19] appointed by the president, not the mayor of the city. So, who can ask this question
[00:10:23] to the president?
[00:10:25] Listen, we are always talking about professional management, you don't want
[00:10:29] us to go down the path of President Trump, and when people
[00:10:32] ask, what is this, why is this, this is a question of whether you will have sewage, you
[00:10:36] are absolutely right, Russia hits and hits, but you need to prepare for
[00:10:40] this,
[00:10:42] that is, the question always arises, what should we do, build new kindergartens,
[00:10:46] new parks, declare a thousand springs
[00:10:50] and do various beautiful things with our hands,
[00:10:54] or... that this is a country of a long war, whether someone
[00:10:58] likes it or not, endless, in
[00:11:00] an endless war, you need not parks, but
[00:11:03] shelters, autonomous energy supply,
[00:11:06] autonomous gas supply, autonomous water supply, and this needs to be done
[00:11:10] the day before yesterday, I have the impression that not only
[00:11:13] the population lives in an absolutely absurd illusion that the war can
[00:11:17] end any moment, but also the government lives in such an illusion, and
[00:11:20] they still can't understand that this is a war without an exit, that
[00:11:24] there is no... exit from this war, because there are no
[00:11:27] objective reasons for this exit, well,
[00:11:30] after all, except of course the complete capitulation of Ukraine and
[00:11:34] the annexation of Ukrainian regions, former ones, to the Russian Federation, that's
[00:11:37] an exit. Then, as you understand, sewage will be
[00:11:41] handled by the Russian Federation, spoiler, it will do it
[00:11:44] badly, there will still be no water, just as
[00:11:46] there is no
[00:11:49] in many of our cities annexed to Russia, so, but
[00:11:52] that's not the point, we, it seems, see that... 62%
[00:11:56] are not going to capitulate, well, so,
[00:12:00] therefore, we need to be professional, I always
[00:12:04] say, professional leadership, professional
[00:12:06] government,
[00:12:08] lack of connection between personal enrichment and preparation
[00:12:12] for further stages
[00:12:13] of the war,
[00:12:19] figuratively speaking, these are the main goals, the budget must be
[00:12:22] spent on this, on the army, on uh...
[00:12:26] on aid to disabled
[00:12:29] and people with special needs who cannot cope
[00:12:32] themselves in such a situation, on preparation for
[00:12:35] winter. We need to prepare now for a war
[00:12:39] winter, not even 2026, but 2027-28
[00:12:43] and 2028-2029
[00:12:45] years. There can also be a war winter at this time.
[00:12:49] We need to think now about how we will survive the difficult war winter
[00:12:53] of 28-29. years, let there actually be peace,
[00:12:57] but we will be ready for war. Well, what's
[00:13:00] unclear here?
[00:13:04] And it's strange that after four years of this endless war, we
[00:13:08] have to explain these elementary things. Why, why do I want to
[00:13:11] ask. Perhaps,
[00:13:14] uh, the help of allies, as strange as it sounds, was so
[00:13:17] generous, and its use was so
[00:13:20] perhaps frivolous, I'm just guessing now,
[00:13:24] that... we were able to afford in Kyiv
[00:13:28] to pretend for a long time that the war, although it exists, is
[00:13:32] such that it's not because, we didn't pretend
[00:13:35] that there was no war because Russia didn't have a ballistic window and
[00:13:39] reactive drones to destroy everything in Kyiv, if it had had such
[00:13:42] capabilities earlier, it would have done it earlier, today's strike on a restaurant in
[00:13:46] Kyiv, unfortunately, there are victims,
[00:13:50] wounded, that is, this is literally a demonstration that
[00:13:53] we will not allow you to... calmly walk around in your
[00:13:56] hipster establishments, well, I don't think so, listen, this is again, this is
[00:14:00] a question of how it is, how accurate it is, where it hits, how
[00:14:03] these Russian systems work, but again,
[00:14:07] if there is an alarm and a restaurant, the restaurant must
[00:14:11] also have a shelter,
[00:14:14] everyone too, people themselves want to live as if there is no war,
[00:14:18] as if there is no alarm, well, we have constant alarms, what, should we not
[00:14:21] eat, well, eat, but this is such a fatal moment.
[00:14:25] Eat, but go down to the shelter.
[00:14:28] Well, after all, I was in various
[00:14:32] hotels that were already built after
[00:14:35] the war, the beginning of the war, there are no shelters in the hotels themselves, that is, I
[00:14:38] generally believe that there are none, considering that Ukrainians
[00:14:41] are waiting for decades of such conflicts, perhaps new
[00:14:45] housing without special rooms should not be rented out, houses without shelters
[00:14:49] should not be rented out, every new house must have a basement where people will
[00:14:53] be during alarms.
[00:14:56] we have to go now for a short break,
[00:14:57] stay tuned.
[00:15:05] Meet the renewed morning, a joint information project of
[00:15:09] Espreso and Slava.
[00:15:11] Dear friends, Roman Chayka and I said almost in unison. The beginning
[00:15:15] of each new day with your favorite
[00:15:18] team: Lesya Vakulyuk, Roman Chayka, Kateryna Nekrecha,
[00:15:22] Serhiy Rudenko, Iryna Koval and Oksana. This is
[00:15:26] the Ukrainian Focus Morning program. These wonderful people
[00:15:29] wake up at 4 AM to prepare news
[00:15:33] for you and meet the new day with you. Greetings to everyone who
[00:15:37] has already woken up,
[00:15:40] the most important events from the front and comments from the military, current news from Ukraine and
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[00:15:46] weather forecasts and conversations with guests. We will talk about
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[00:20:50] Well, for the final minutes of Saturday's
[00:20:53] political club, I think it's worth returning to today's
[00:20:57] sensational statement, at least for today, Trump's,
[00:21:00] who stated directly that Ukraine
[00:21:04] should choose or acquire a new
[00:21:07] president, because this President Zelensky,
[00:21:10] allegedly had several opportunities to end the war, and
[00:21:14] only he creates problems, Putin does not create, Putin wants
[00:21:18] peace, as I understand it. Putin doesn't need to be replaced, this, by the way,
[00:21:21] echoes, remember, at the end of August,
[00:21:24] with
[00:21:26] Dugin's phrase, he wrote in English, by the way,
[00:21:30] for the West about
[00:21:33] giving us Ukraine, and you will have peace, we will not fight
[00:21:36] with you, well, yes, I always
[00:21:39] try to explain, Trump absolutely does not lie when
[00:21:42] he says that if he were president of the United States, and not Biden, in
[00:21:45] 2022, there would be no war, I also think that it might not
[00:21:49] have been. because he agreed to all Putin's
[00:21:52] terms, he agreed to all Putin's terms, he
[00:21:56] would not help Ukraine, he would force Europeans not to help it,
[00:21:59] he would do like Chamberlain in Munich,
[00:22:03] at least he would give Putin part of Ukraine,
[00:22:06] would guarantee that Ukraine would never be a NATO member, together with Putin
[00:22:10] he would seek the success of pro-Russian forces in Ukraine, there would be no
[00:22:13] war and there would be no Ukraine, no Ukraine, no problem, so he is
[00:22:16] sincere, he doesn't understand why Ukraine should...
[00:22:26] that's all of Trump's logic,
[00:22:29] so we must clearly say
[00:22:32] that if the President of the Russian Federation cannot
[00:22:36] decide who should be the President of Ukraine, so exactly, and the President of the United
[00:22:40] States cannot do that, we must immediately
[00:22:43] say that all this is the result of Trump's
[00:22:46] hysteria, a self-confident person will not behave
[00:22:50] like that,
[00:22:54] and Trump has not yet managed to change real power anywhere, not even in Venezuela,
[00:22:58] where they arrested President Nicolas Maduro, they could not
[00:23:02] achieve the collapse of this regime, which
[00:23:05] existed since the time of Hugo Chavez. Venezuela is
[00:23:08] governed by Chavistas, not democratically elected
[00:23:11] forces.
[00:23:13] Therefore, the question arises, what is the point of all these threats and
[00:23:17] statements. Other than, as in the image of
[00:23:21] Donald Trump, that Zelensky does not do what
[00:23:24] he, saying that he
[00:23:27] dared
[00:23:29] to condemn this diesel
[00:23:33] deal, absolutely absurd
[00:23:37] Putin and Trump, but now I think that perhaps
[00:23:41] the essence of this deal was in the idea
[00:23:45] of demanding Zelensky's resignation, not even Zelensky's resignation, demanding a halt
[00:23:48] to strikes on oil refineries
[00:23:50] in
[00:23:54] the Russian Federation, that this could have been
[00:23:57] the idea, we agree on diesel, and you
[00:24:00] agree that Ukrainians stop their strikes on Russia,
[00:24:03] because it prevents us from selling you
[00:24:07] diesel and reaching these 3 million barrels, or tons, I
[00:24:10] apologize, 3 million
[00:24:13] tons of diesel fuel, well, and
[00:24:16] now it's important to understand something else, Mr. Andriy, what... will
[00:24:20] happen after this, for example, will the Pentagon after this
[00:24:24] deny Ukraine in the exchange of
[00:24:26] intelligence information, this is
[00:24:28] the most important thing,
[00:24:31] the most important thing in this story is the exchange of intelligence
[00:24:34] information, but if we consider that this exchange helps
[00:24:38] us defend ourselves from attacks
[00:24:41] by Russian aviation, unmanned aircraft and
[00:24:44] missiles, then the killings of civilian citizens of Ukraine
[00:24:48] will be on the conscience of Donald Trump.
[00:24:51] In the last election week,
[00:24:54] Donald Trump's opponents will clearly tell him that he is
[00:24:58] Putin's
[00:24:58] ally.
[00:25:03] Or now European leaders will start calling Trump, trying to
[00:25:07] calm him down, as it always was. He will start
[00:25:10] taking some of his words back. I don't know, I don't even know how effective
[00:25:13] all this is. You see that with Trump, as with Putin, if you try
[00:25:17] to approach him
[00:25:22] on the offensive, he just starts beating
[00:25:24] you,
[00:25:28] if we just try to
[00:25:30] imagine what the world would be
[00:25:32] like now if Trump
[00:25:34] had lost, why would we be in a slightly different
[00:25:38] situation? Well, if Trump had lost, we would definitely have a different
[00:25:41] world, we would not have such a war with Iran, maybe a war with Iran
[00:25:45] would have been, or more carefully prepared, we would not
[00:25:48] have such an economic crisis in the world that is now
[00:25:51] huge, we would not have such a feeling of
[00:25:55] security deficit in the United States itself, and therefore
[00:25:58] the United States would be much more confident in itself.
[00:26:03] Well, we would have some help for Ukraine, we would not have
[00:26:06] Putin confident that he can use the United States in his interests. Of course,
[00:26:10] Trump's victory in
[00:26:13] the presidential elections in his country is a great American and a great
[00:26:16] world tragedy. Catastrophe. Yes.
[00:26:19] And I believe that if this, this
[00:26:23] rule does not end with the Third World War and the death
[00:26:26] of tens of millions of people in this bloody bath, we will just be lucky. Because
[00:26:29] in principle, since Trump's election to the presidency, to the position
[00:26:33] of President of the United States, since his return to the White House, when I saw how he behaves, I
[00:26:37] basically expect the Third World War. As a result
[00:26:39] of mistakes, because this is simply a person who
[00:26:42] is,
[00:26:45] I would say, such a harbinger of the apocalypse,
[00:26:48] and if this does not happen, I hope that it will not
[00:26:51] happen, after all, I just hope, it's not that I
[00:26:54] see a possibility to prevent it, but I hope for it, then
[00:26:58] we will consider ourselves all very lucky if
[00:27:02] we... go through Donald Trump's presidency, the second one, without a major
[00:27:05] catastrophe,
[00:27:08] I think that there are chances for this, there are chances
[00:27:12] that now there will be a loss
[00:27:14] by Republicans in the elections to Congress,
[00:27:18] I hope that this will sober them up as a party, force them to abandon
[00:27:22] cooperation with ultra-right forces, which were never
[00:27:25] carriers of republicanism, as we talked about here in this
[00:27:29] program, and we will start to reach some plateau.
[00:27:32] 2028 will be a time of political
[00:27:35] recovery in the world, but this is a dream for now, this is not
[00:27:39] a forecast, it's just a dream that it would be so, well, in the end,
[00:27:42] the last word will be with the American people, whether they
[00:27:45] still remain a Western society that cares about
[00:27:49] Western values, European values, just values
[00:27:52] of humanism, probably, that's how it can be said, thank you to everyone who
[00:27:55] was with us for these two hours today, this was the Saturday political club with Vitaliy Portnikov,
[00:27:59] see you next week, take care.
[00:28:25] Greetings, American President Donald
[00:28:28] Trump on Friday, October 9, announced that
[00:28:32] he had a phone conversation with Russian dictator
[00:28:35] Vladimir Putin. Following this conversation,
[00:28:39] Russia will supply diesel to world markets, including
[00:28:42] the US. This has already caused a sharp
[00:28:45] intra-American scandal, which
[00:28:49] is being discussed not only by opponents of President Trump, but even by his supporters
[00:28:53] from the Republican Party. Ukraine this week launched
[00:28:56] two powerful strikes on Yandex company data centers, as a result of which
[00:28:59] the internet slowed down in
[00:29:03] Central Russia, including in the capital Moscow.
[00:29:07] We will talk about all this, as well as other hot topics of the week, with
[00:29:10] our guest today, public figure,
[00:29:14] advisor to the Minister of Internal Affairs of Ukraine
[00:29:16] from 2014-2021, Zoryan
[00:29:19] Shkiryak. Greetings, Mr. Zoryan.
[00:29:23] Good day, glory to Ukraine. Glory to the heroes. So,
[00:29:26] let's start with the hottest news. On Friday,
[00:29:30] October 9, Donald Trump, with... Putin, announced
[00:29:33] that
[00:29:36] Russia will supply diesel, including to the American
[00:29:39] market. It also became known that the Ukrainian negotiating
[00:29:43] group, which arrived in the United States, will be returning to Ukraine
[00:29:47] soon, and President Volodymyr Zelensky made
[00:29:51] a rather sharp statement, criticizing
[00:29:54] the relevant decisions of the American administration.
[00:29:57] Why this scandalous incident
[00:30:00] happened exactly now, it seems to me, is more than obvious,
[00:30:03] but what guided the American administration in making
[00:30:07] such an ambiguous decision?
[00:30:10] Well, you know, I think that
[00:30:13] for those people who are
[00:30:16] aware of what is happening in general in the United
[00:30:20] States of America, this
[00:30:23] blatant, well, cynical betrayal of Ukraine, and not
[00:30:27] only betrayal of Ukraine, but betrayal of practically
[00:30:30] the entire civilized world, because it is also a betrayal
[00:30:34] of allies, and first of all the European Union,
[00:30:38] betrayal of NATO,
[00:30:40] well, probably it did not become some kind of
[00:30:42] news,
[00:30:45] extraordinary, because from Donald Trump over
[00:30:48] the last two years we could
[00:30:51] expect anything, and yes, of course, this
[00:30:55] shameful agreement, and actually this
[00:30:58] decision, which in essence.