ESPRESO — broadcast
20261012 100000 UTC
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[00:00:00] we will talk to our guest, former Minister of Defense of
[00:00:03] Lithuania Dovilė Šakalėne, but while we
[00:00:05] are waiting for connection with our guest, we continue
[00:00:09] to follow the events that are taking place at the Warsoal security
[00:00:13] forum, and the statements of Volodymyr Zelensky, the President of Ukraine, he
[00:00:16] says that Ukraine is ready
[00:00:19] to sign guarantees for an energy truce, but
[00:00:22] Russia must demonstrate that it agrees to it. Zelensky
[00:00:26] announced this during his address at the Warsaw
[00:00:30] Security Forum, he said that Ukraine is waiting for
[00:00:33] details of negotiations between Americans and
[00:00:36] Russians, and we can already continue our conversation with our
[00:00:40] guest, Šakalytė Davile, our guest,
[00:00:43] former Minister of Defense of
[00:00:45] Lithuania.
[00:00:48] Good day, we welcome you, we welcome
[00:00:50] you.
[00:00:55] Good day. And how do
[00:00:58] Lithuania assess the decision of the US President, who
[00:01:02] allows Russia to sell oil, with which it, by the way,
[00:01:05] finances the war, because Lithuania is also
[00:01:08] the state that looks with concern to the
[00:01:12] east.
[00:01:20] Of course, there are two
[00:01:23] such different reasons why this
[00:01:26] decision is simply terrible, both for us.
[00:01:34] First of all, this is not a solution to the problem, because
[00:01:38] the figures that Russia presents
[00:01:42] are so small, so small, that they will not have any
[00:01:45] impact on the global market. The second
[00:01:48] problem is that Russia cannot
[00:01:52] actually solve this problem, because the real reason
[00:01:56] is the situation in the strait.
[00:02:01] Strait of Hormuz, and therefore, this
[00:02:04] whole complication, this conflict is
[00:02:08] the reason for what is happening. In
[00:02:10] addition, we are now talking about NATO security, and of course,
[00:02:14] everything that helps the Russian economy,
[00:02:17] anything that accelerates its preparation for
[00:02:21] the next stages of the war, is a direct threat to NATO, to
[00:02:24] the entire alliance, and to
[00:02:27] our.
[00:02:30] According to our estimates, intelligence data of the defense, which have already
[00:02:34] been published, it is clearly stated that if
[00:02:37] Russia, if sanctions against Russia
[00:02:40] are removed, if Russia
[00:02:43] can actually accelerate
[00:02:47] the use of such a window of opportunities for Russia,
[00:02:50] they can already attack NATO
[00:02:53] within 12 months, and this means that
[00:02:57] we ourselves, in our alliance. reports that Washington threatens
[00:03:00] to block
[00:03:08] the mechanism for purchasing American weapons for Ukraine and to stop
[00:03:12] the transfer of intelligence data, if this happens, in your
[00:03:16] opinion, is Europe capable of compensating for the loss
[00:03:18] of American weapons, and most importantly
[00:03:20] intelligence data?
[00:03:28] We all agree that.
[00:03:30] there is currently no alternative to
[00:03:33] American capabilities, especially if we are talking about
[00:03:36] strategic resources, about certain intelligence
[00:03:40] aspects, and of course, this would be
[00:03:42] a devastating loss, because
[00:03:46] Europe can actually compensate for everything only
[00:03:50] based on its capabilities, we cannot
[00:03:53] provide Ukraine with something
[00:03:57] that we don't have, that is, we are developing,
[00:04:00] we have our strategic potential, but this takes
[00:04:03] time, and if this provision
[00:04:06] of intelligence data completely stops, it will not
[00:04:09] only be a devastating
[00:04:13] thing for Ukraine, but it will also destroy
[00:04:17] our security, we all see
[00:04:21] that this Russian military reform
[00:04:24] is aimed not only at Ukraine,
[00:04:27] they are actually building their...
[00:05:18] First of all, of course, we are talking to our
[00:05:22] partners, these discussions, dialogues
[00:05:26] with the USA, are extremely critically
[00:05:29] important, we need to be
[00:05:32] on the same page here, so to speak,
[00:05:36] and this will have the greatest
[00:05:40] effects for the future situation. speaking about
[00:05:43] the practical dimension, of course, our joint
[00:05:46] projects with Ukraine in the defense sector, because
[00:05:50] your technologies, your, your experience is
[00:05:53] extraordinary, and we are trying to use
[00:05:56] them in the best way, but
[00:05:59] at the same time accelerating our
[00:06:01] production, accelerating our development of our potential, our
[00:06:05] capabilities, so that we are together in this,
[00:06:08] so that we can support you, but at the same time build
[00:06:12] capabilities that do not exist yet, this is
[00:06:16] what we can do, of course, we will not talk about technical
[00:06:20] things here, thank you very much for this
[00:06:23] conversation and for your comments, I remind you that we spoke with Dovilesha
[00:06:27] Kalijene, former Minister of Defense of
[00:06:30] Lithuania.
[00:06:38] The European Union has imposed sanctions against almost 1600
[00:06:41] people related to the military industry of Russia.
[00:06:45] EU Foreign Ministers approved sanctions against these
[00:06:49] 1600 people associated with
[00:06:52] the Russian military-industrial complex, more than half of whom are involved in
[00:06:56] the production of ballistic missiles, said the head of
[00:06:59] European diplomacy, Kaja Kallas, as reported by European
[00:07:03] Pravda. She said that foreign ministers
[00:07:06] approved the expansion of these sanctions and, according
[00:07:10] to her, the measures are aimed at the Russian
[00:07:13] military-industrial complex, and more
[00:07:17] than half of them are related to the ballistic missile production chain, this
[00:07:20] is the largest expansion of our sanctions list since
[00:07:24] the beginning of the war by
[00:07:26] Russia, that is, it looks very good,
[00:07:30] Donald Trump, actually helps
[00:07:33] Europeans to make appropriate decisions, we are waiting for
[00:07:36] more, faster, and we are waiting for
[00:07:39] more. Well, I see
[00:07:43] that every patriot in Poland and Europe should
[00:07:46] think about how to effectively help Ukraine defend itself. These
[00:07:50] words were said by Polish Prime Minister Donald
[00:07:53] Tusk during the opening of the Warsaw Security Forum. Ukrainian President Volodymyr
[00:07:57] Zelensky also spoke online at the opening, emphasizing the
[00:08:00] importance of continuing to exert pressure on Russia. Our
[00:08:04] correspondent Natalka Volosatska will tell more, she is live with
[00:08:08] us.
[00:08:12] We welcome you, so, what other important statements were made at
[00:08:16] the forum? Good day.
[00:08:19] Greetings, colleagues, Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk, during the opening
[00:08:23] of the forum, emphasized that Russia bears full responsibility for the war against
[00:08:27] Ukraine, and weakening support for Kyiv contradicts
[00:08:30] the security and sovereignty interests of European states. According
[00:08:34] to him, Russia seeks not only to subjugate Ukraine, but also
[00:08:37] to change the security architecture in Europe. Tusk called for
[00:08:40] increasing economic pressure on Moscow and imposing new
[00:08:44] sanctions. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, who joined the forum
[00:08:47] online, emphasized that Russia continues to attack Ukrainian
[00:08:51] energy infrastructure, despite statements about a supposed energy
[00:08:54] truce announced by Donald Trump. Volodymyr Zelensky
[00:08:58] stressed that to achieve peace, real
[00:09:01] US pressure on Russia is needed, not a weakening
[00:09:04] of sanctions or concessions to the Kremlin. Zelensky also called
[00:09:08] on partners for unity, emphasizing that a ceasefire must
[00:09:11] provide for...
[00:09:35] I know, I am convinced that they are among our stocks, in our
[00:09:38] orders and in the stocks of our partners. Ukraine needs...
[00:10:04] So my request is this: please, do not finance state terror
[00:10:05] of Russia.
[00:10:12] Now is not the time to soften sanctions, now is not the time to give Russia more
[00:10:16] money, when we are trying to find funds and resources for
[00:10:19] Ukraine, this creates a terrible, just terrible example to
[00:10:23] follow.
[00:10:29] Ukraine's great friend Katarzyna Pisarska called on
[00:10:32] European partners to support Ukraine for as long as it is
[00:10:36] needed.
[00:10:38] Natalka Volosatska from the Warsaw Security Forum. Thank you,
[00:16:09] we have, we have the decisions that are necessary for
[00:16:12] the country, we must make them for the country, I understand
[00:16:15] that some in the hall need to speak out,
[00:16:19] engage in PR and adhere to those peaceful
[00:16:22] procedures that are currently unavailable to us, but in this
[00:16:26] regard, I ask the Conciliation Council, I do not want to put
[00:16:29] this to a vote now, but I ask the Conciliation Council
[00:16:33] to consider tomorrow the possibility of considering issues for
[00:16:37] exhausting the agenda items, if someone
[00:16:41] wants to speak, we will listen, but we will not disperse until
[00:16:44] all decisions are made, moreover, I would
[00:16:48] like the Verkhovna Rada to publish those
[00:16:51] deputies who are present in the hall when making those decisions,
[00:16:54] and those who are absent as well, so that we understand who in these
[00:16:58] difficult times works for the country, who pretends to work,
[00:17:02] thank you, thank you, that's true, please, dear
[00:17:05] colleagues, well, please, let's still spend
[00:17:09] this time somehow more for Ukraine,
[00:17:12] okay? Artur Volodymyrovych, please,
[00:17:15] ласка,
[00:17:18] dear colleagues, dear Ukrainians, I am very surprised to hear from
[00:17:21] the mono-majority that we should work until the agenda is exhausted,
[00:17:25] of course, European solidarity is supported and will
[00:17:28] work, but I want to remind you that you made a decision to go to
[00:17:32] Bukovel for all sessions, you made a decision not to
[00:17:35] work in the plenary for three weeks. what
[00:17:42] international issues he was involved in, okay,
[00:17:44] thank you,
[00:17:47] dear colleagues, Razumkov, please, finalize the procedure
[00:17:51] and let's move to voting,
[00:17:54] please, I was in Kyiv, so there are no questions, second,
[00:17:58] last week, when there was an hour of questions to the government,
[00:18:01] why wasn't the government here, please give an answer, Ruslan Oleksiyovych, and
[00:18:05] the third question, why did you disperse for three weeks, I personally
[00:18:09] addressed you to hold a meeting last and the week before
[00:18:12] last, there is no such desire, there was no desire, it is mostly,
[00:18:16] today it appeared, put to a vote
[00:18:18] the proposal to work today until
[00:18:22] the consideration of all agenda items that are
[00:18:25] proposed today, and we will see, please put it, and so we will
[00:18:29] work until the consideration of agenda items until the end, dear
[00:18:32] colleagues, that's all, period, dear colleagues, in accordance with
[00:18:36] Article 28.
[00:19:19] 214 in favor, nine against, three abstained, 77
[00:19:22] did not vote, dear colleagues, the list of issues approved by the Conciliation Council has been provided to you,
[00:19:26] let's move to its consideration, you
[00:19:28] have, now I will announce, we are at
[00:19:31] issue 10147, this is
[00:19:34] a draft law on occupational safety and health. This is the second
[00:19:37] reading, and we agreed, why Yulia Volodymyrivna Tymoshenko
[00:19:41] submitted it first, she will put five amendments
[00:19:45] for confirmation, asks for three to four minutes for substantiation, please, Yulia
[00:19:49] Volodymyrivna, up to four minutes and then you will put them in order,
[00:20:03] please, up to 5 minutes, Yulia Volodymyrivna, and then we will vote, but try to keep it short.
[00:20:12] Yulia Tymoshenko, Batkivshchyna faction.
[00:20:15] Dear colleagues, draft law 10147
[00:20:19] is called on occupational safety and health. Today,
[00:20:22] as part of the labor
[00:20:26] code, this
[00:20:28] practically all issues, this is resolved in full
[00:20:31] harmony with employers, with
[00:20:34] trade unions, with the government, what works today.
[00:20:37] Draft law 10147, which
[00:20:40] is called on occupational safety and health, actually
[00:20:43] cancels all
[00:20:46] guarantees for employees regarding
[00:20:50] the protection of their health at the workplace,
[00:20:54] I can tell you that this is one
[00:20:57] of the draft laws that turns
[00:21:00] working people into a disenfranchised,
[00:21:04] absolutely unprotected by the state, slave
[00:21:07] force. Imagine that this
[00:21:11] law cancels all
[00:21:13] key benefits and guarantees for those
[00:21:17] employees who work in harmful
[00:21:20] jobs in conditions of increased
[00:21:23] danger. In particular, this is everything
[00:21:26] that concerns preferential pension
[00:21:29] provision, increased wages, this
[00:21:33] is a reduction in working
[00:21:36] hours, additional paid
[00:21:39] vacations, everything is canceled,
[00:21:42] even free medical treatment is canceled for
[00:21:45] those who were injured at work. In
[00:21:48] addition, the responsibility of employers for
[00:21:51] creating safe working conditions is
[00:21:55] removed, in fact, this
[00:21:58] draft law openly tells you that
[00:22:02] powerful international, global corporations
[00:22:05] are going to enter here, and
[00:22:09] before they enter, our working
[00:22:12] people must be turned into disenfranchised slaves, and
[00:22:16] this is one of the first laws that
[00:22:19] does this. I can tell you that this is a complete
[00:22:22] deception, that this is a European
[00:22:26] draft law, this is a lie, because
[00:22:29] this draft law directly contradicts
[00:22:32] Council Directive
[00:22:33] 89/391 of
[00:22:37] 12.06.89,
[00:22:40] where it clearly states that
[00:22:43] it is prohibited, unacceptable
[00:22:46] by any laws regarding employees
[00:22:49] to worsen their working conditions,
[00:22:52] this contradicts European practice and European
[00:22:56] directives. Also, we have
[00:22:59] an Association Agreement with the European
[00:23:03] Union, Article 296
[00:23:06] of the Association Agreement,
[00:23:08] explicitly prohibits weakening or
[00:23:12] lowering the level of labor protection. This law
[00:23:16] contradicts our Association
[00:23:18] Agreement. Now, if you vote for this
[00:23:22] draft law, you hit miners,
[00:23:25] metallurgists,
[00:23:28] chemists, those who work in the pharmaceutical
[00:23:31] industry, many, many workers of our
[00:23:35] country. I want to ask, what did
[00:23:38] they deserve this for, that you are taking away
[00:23:41] their last guarantees. In
[00:23:45] addition, 14 Ukrainian vocal
[00:23:48] professional unions opposed this draft
[00:23:51] law, they sent their
[00:23:55] appeals to the heads of factions, to the head
[00:23:58] of the Verkhovna Rada, to the relevant committees, and
[00:24:02] asked every deputy not to vote for this
[00:24:06] law. The International Labor Organization
[00:24:09] appealed and said that this does not comply with
[00:24:13] the conventions adopted by the International
[00:24:16] Labor Organization. I want to ask, who is
[00:24:20] the initiator of turning our working people into
[00:24:24] slaves, who is for this
[00:24:26] colonization, if you decide, then
[00:24:30] go by name to your voters and
[00:24:32] call on them to support this
[00:24:35] genocide of the Ukrainian people. I urge you
[00:24:39] to vote against, not to give a single
[00:24:42] vote, because this is unacceptable for
[00:24:46] a European country. In
[00:24:48] addition, against this, the global
[00:24:52] system of trade unions Industrial, which
[00:24:54] includes 52 million workers worldwide,
[00:24:58] appealed to the Speaker
[00:25:01] of the Verkhovna Rada not to put this law to
[00:25:04] a vote, I ask you not to support it, our team
[00:25:08] votes against and supports working
[00:25:10] people, please, Halyna Mykolaivna, if I
[00:25:14] ask, please answer, you are the rapporteur on this, up to
[00:25:18] two minutes, Halyna Mykolaivna, then vote.
[00:25:21] I ask the people's deputies to take their
[00:25:23] seats.
[00:25:25] Now Halyna Mykolaivna will briefly report on those
[00:25:28] comments, I will put these amendments in order and
[00:25:31] then the law as a whole. Dear
[00:25:34] colleagues, the law on labor protection, which is in force in Ukraine, on the one hand,
[00:25:38] even the name does not correspond to the European one, because in Europe
[00:25:41] it is safety and health at work, but this
[00:25:44] law over the years of Ukraine's independence
[00:25:47] has led to the fact that the number of
[00:25:50] killed and disabled in enterprises, although we
[00:25:54] are losing industrial sectors,
[00:25:57] is increasing, this means that the law on labor
[00:26:00] protection does not protect anyone,
[00:26:03] injuries, deaths and disabilities
[00:26:07] continue, if we do not change
[00:26:10] the mechanism that is European.
[00:26:14] Regarding the accusations that this draft law does not comply with
[00:26:17] the European ILO conventions and European directives.
[00:26:21] This is not true. On the website of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine, you
[00:26:24] can see on 194
[00:26:27] pages the compliance of the Acquis and the compliance
[00:26:30] of the ILO conventions. The information that is being disseminated
[00:26:34] today about the alleged non-compliance of the ILO,
[00:26:37] it concerns the first reading
[00:26:41] of this law. The ILO has not even translated
[00:26:44] the draft law that has been on the website of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine since
[00:26:48] May 26, 25.
[00:26:52] A year and a half the draft law has been on
[00:26:55] the website, only now they remembered about the life and
[00:26:58] death of employees and people who work
[00:27:02] there. We are walking on very thin ice,
[00:27:05] the compliance with the Acquis
[00:27:06] is clear,
[00:27:09] but in addition, this is part of the Ukraine Facility. This
[00:27:12] means that if we do not receive funding for our
[00:27:16] account, our thin ice of funding in November
[00:27:19] for the army will also be in question, and this
[00:27:22] is part of the Ukraine Facility tranche. This is an additional
[00:27:25] argument, but it cannot be ignored. I have
[00:27:29] a request to support this draft law. Thank you.
[00:27:32] Thank you, dear colleagues, I ask the people's deputies to take their
[00:27:35] seats, please.
[00:27:37] ласка,
[00:27:40] Dear colleagues, people's deputies, please take your
[00:27:43] seats, I will now
[00:27:45] sequentially,
[00:27:48] dear
[00:27:51] from the procedure, Yulia Volodymyrivna, you have already spoken for 5 minutes,
[00:27:55] let's vote on these amendments first, only from
[00:27:59] the procedure, Yulia Volodymyrivna, people's deputies, please take your seats.
[00:28:03] Tymoshenko, from the procedure only Yulia Volodymyrivna. Yes, Mr.
[00:28:05] Chairman, to you, 14 Ukrainian
[00:28:08] sectoral trade unions officially appealed that this
[00:28:12] law should not be supported. Why not announce now to the entire
[00:28:16] parliament team that all trade unions of Ukraine
[00:28:19] are categorically against this law. Please, this is not
[00:28:22] from the procedure. This is not from the procedure. Secondly, you said it several times from
[00:28:26] the tribune. Everyone heard. Dear colleagues,
[00:28:29] I am now putting these amendments sequentially. I am putting. amendments,
[00:28:32] which are taken into account, they are put for confirmation, after that
[00:28:36] I will put the law as a whole, and so amendment number four:
[00:28:40] I ask the people's deputies, please take your
[00:28:42] seats. Davyd Georgievych,
[00:28:45] please release Pasqua, please,
[00:28:49] please take your seats, please,
[00:28:53] this is for support, for confirmation, the fourth
[00:28:56] amendment, it is taken into account, People's Deputy Tymoshenko asks
[00:29:00] to put it for confirmation. I put
[00:29:03] the fourth amendment for confirmation,
[00:29:24] with 227 votes, the decision is adopted, the amendment remains taken into account,
[00:29:27] the eighth amendment, I put it to a vote, I put it to
[00:29:31] a vote, please for... confirmation as well, please,
[00:29:34] dear colleagues, just as you voted, you voted well, please vote
[00:29:37] further, please vote, dear colleagues, faster, only,
[00:29:55] with 212 votes, the decision is not adopted, the next amendment is
[00:29:59] 426, taken into account, put to confirmation.
[00:30:03] Please, I ask the people's deputies to vote, faster,
[00:30:06] colleagues, please, I ask you to vote,
[00:30:20] with 221 votes, the decision is not adopted, amendment 846,
[00:30:24] I ask the people's deputies to vote, it was taken into account
[00:30:27] by the committee, dear colleagues, please
[00:30:29] vote.
[00:30:44] with 213 votes, the decision is not adopted and the final
[00:30:47] 954 and then we will vote for the law as a whole
[00:30:50] 954 taken into account by the committee is put to confirmation please
[00:30:54] vote.