ESPRESO — broadcast
20261012 190000 UTC
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[00:00:00] 073 horizontal polarization
[00:00:03] of the Astra 4A satellite. Tune
[00:00:06] your tuners and watch Espresso via satellite
[00:00:10] antennas in HD quality. Espresso is
[00:00:13] a Ukrainian perspective.
[00:00:17] Joanna Luberecka Hrutsa, public figure, head of the board of the charitable
[00:00:20] foundation Fundacja Polki Mogam vshysko in the Europeans project.
[00:00:24] Children from Ukraine often say, we already know how hard it is to dream,
[00:00:28] plan and lose it. on Tuesday, October 6
[00:00:31] at 5:00 PM with a repeat on Sunday, October 11. It's very
[00:00:35] hard to believe that those people who hosted people
[00:00:38] from Ukraine in their homes have now changed by
[00:00:41] 180°. Europeans with Lesya Vakulyuk on Espresso.
[00:00:57] American President Donald Trump announced an energy
[00:01:00] truce between Ukraine and Russia, by the way, he is not doing this for the
[00:01:03] first time, but now, as the American press wrote,
[00:01:07] an energy truce in the understanding of the head of the White House means that
[00:01:10] Russia and Ukraine cease attacks
[00:01:13] only on each other's oil refineries, Ukraine has only
[00:01:17] one refinery, and it is not operating at full capacity, unlike Russia, there are dozens of them,
[00:01:20] this is Svoboda Live, I am Vlasta Lazur, today we are talking about Trump's and Putin's diesel
[00:01:24] deal, what remained behind the scenes and what
[00:01:27] consequences Ukraine should prepare for.
[00:01:34] Now, but if Russia wants us to stop our long-range
[00:01:37] strikes on its oil refineries and oil exports,
[00:01:40] then Russia must stop its strikes on our
[00:01:44] energy system and critical infrastructure, and
[00:01:48] also stop killing our people, this
[00:01:50] is fair.
[00:01:57] This is Volodymyr Zelensky's response to Donald Trump's statements about an energy
[00:02:00] truce, which he announced the day before, after
[00:02:04] advising Ukraine to choose a new leader and complaining about Ukrainian strikes on
[00:02:08] Russian refineries. Volodymyr Zelensky, well, judging by this statement, clearly
[00:02:11] made it clear that an energy truce in his understanding and Trump's understanding are
[00:02:15] different things. Well, then, in the relations between Donald Trump and Volodymyr
[00:02:18] Zelensky, there is a crisis again, perhaps the biggest since their quarrel in
[00:02:22] the White House, which was in February that year? The consequence of deteriorating
[00:02:25] relations may be the blocking of arms supplies to Ukraine and
[00:02:28] the cessation of intelligence exchange. Kyiv fears this the most, writes the Western
[00:02:32] press. Over the weekend, dozens of statements
[00:02:36] and frames were made, so chronologically, I will probably remind you about
[00:02:39] the main ones. So, last Friday, October 9, late
[00:02:42] in the evening Kyiv time, Donald Trump announced an agreement with Vladimir
[00:02:45] Putin on the supply of Russian diesel fuel to American and other
[00:02:49] markets. With this news, Trump announced lower fuel
[00:02:52] prices for Americans. He said, I made a deal, and now fuel prices
[00:02:56] will be record low. Zelensky reacted to... The next day,
[00:03:00] October 10, in a comment for the American publication Axios, he called Trump's and
[00:03:04] Putin's deal unfair and unjust.
[00:03:07] It seems that for the Ukrainian side, this deal came as a complete surprise. The thing
[00:03:11] is that a day before the deal, Zelensky announced another round of negotiations in
[00:03:14] the USA. The delegation went to Miami. Its members included
[00:03:18] MP and head of the Servant of the People faction Davyd Arakhamia, head of the foreign intelligence
[00:03:22] service Rustem Umierov, head of the president's office Kyrylo Budanov
[00:03:26] and his deputy Serhiy Kyslytsia. From the American side were
[00:03:29] to be. Whitkov and Trump's son-in-law Jared Kushner. Let me remind you, two
[00:03:32] weeks ago they visited Kyiv. It was expected that the parties
[00:03:36] would continue negotiations, and prepare some groundwork for
[00:03:39] a trilateral meeting. That is, nothing foreshadowed trouble.
[00:03:42] And so to speak, it turns out that at the same time, when the Ukrainian
[00:03:46] negotiating team was already in Miami, at the same time in
[00:03:49] Washington, Donald Trump announced the achieved diesel deal with
[00:03:53] Vladimir Putin. Eventually, the negotiations in Miami ended prematurely, and
[00:03:56] Vladimir Zelensky stated that the USA used the meeting in Miami
[00:04:00] to cover up its agreements with Putin. In
[00:04:03] response, Donald Trump stated that Ukraine needs to find a new
[00:04:07] president who, he said, will be able to make a deal. Well, and
[00:04:10] of course, and this is the main thing, he criticized Zelensky for the strikes on
[00:04:14] Russian refineries. They, he said, led to the fuel
[00:04:17] crisis.
[00:04:21] Zelensky could have ended this war, not once, but many, many
[00:04:24] times, but he chooses not to. I told him: do
[00:04:28] what you want, just don't touch the oil refineries, there are countless other
[00:04:32] targets, don't touch the refineries, he went and hit them. I
[00:04:35] advise them to choose a new leader, capable of making a deal, because he could have
[00:04:39] made many deals, but for some reason he is not
[00:04:41] doing so.
[00:04:44] And of course, Trump's statement about the need to change the Ukrainian president is, this
[00:04:48] is certainly a clear sign of a crisis in relations. Zelensky stated that
[00:04:51] Ukraine is ready to hold elections if Putin agrees to a 60-day
[00:04:54] truce. On the one hand, it's difficult to understand how Zelensky wants to hold elections
[00:04:58] in two months, on the other hand. Russia rejected the idea of such a truce,
[00:05:02] so there is nothing to talk about yet. Well, returning to Trump, his deal with
[00:05:05] Putin is criticized not only here in Ukraine, but also in the USA, Chuck
[00:05:09] Schumer, Jeanne Shaheen and Elizabeth Warren, these are senators. Democrats
[00:05:12] issued a joint statement, in which they called the Trump-Putin deal
[00:05:16] a betrayal of Ukraine. Another Democratic senator Richard Blumenthal
[00:05:20] called Trump's act a disgrace, helping
[00:05:22] Putin's war economy is immoral, said Don
[00:05:25] Bacon, Republican congressman. Another
[00:05:28] Republican congressman Michael McCaul said that he understands
[00:05:32] Trump's desire to lower fuel prices, but he is concerned that
[00:05:36] now the USA is financing the Kremlin's war machine. At the same time, Elon Musk,
[00:05:39] the owner of SpaceX, which, I remind you, provides... the Armed Forces with Starlink
[00:05:43] satellite internet, supported Trump, commenting on the US president's words about
[00:05:47] Ukraine's strikes on Russian oil refineries. He wrote the following: Zelensky
[00:05:51] went too far. In his other comment, Musk
[00:05:54] added that yes, it's time for Ukraine to find a new leader. If we leave elections
[00:05:58] aside, then as of now, the main requirement, or even
[00:06:01] an ultimatum condition of the Trump administration is the cessation
[00:06:04] of Ukrainian strikes on Russian oil refineries. If Kyiv does not stop
[00:06:08] strikes on oil refineries, the USA threatens to block arms supplies
[00:06:11] and. intelligence exchange, writes the American press
[00:06:14] Financial Times, CNN. The cessation of intelligence exchange can,
[00:06:18] the cessation of intelligence exchange can affect the combat capabilities
[00:06:21] of the Armed Forces, military observers say, and as for obtaining
[00:06:24] weapons, let me remind you, the USA indeed supplies weapons to Ukraine, but not
[00:06:28] for free, European partners will pay for the weapons,
[00:06:31] whether Trump will agree to refuse to sell
[00:06:35] weapons, well, that's a separate issue, we will discuss it now, and in general, could this crisis
[00:06:38] have been avoided somehow, after all, this is really not the first time, what to do
[00:06:42] now to minimize the consequences, and in fact, if we talk about these
[00:06:45] consequences, then what can they be? Let's analyze, people's deputies join
[00:06:49] our broadcast, this is Yehor Cherniv, representative of the Servant of the People
[00:06:53] and representative of the Committee on National Security, Defense and Intelligence, with us
[00:06:56] is Oleksiy Honcharenko. Oleksiy, I am still representing you as a representative
[00:07:00] of European Solidarity, I haven't seen you excluded, and with us
[00:07:03] is also Ambassador Oleg Shamshur, Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary and Ambassador
[00:07:07] of Ukraine to the USA in
[00:07:15] understand what is happening and what
[00:07:18] to do now with your help. My first question, I understand that history does not tolerate
[00:07:21] умовного способу, але як ви вважаєте, чи можна було цієї кризи
[00:07:25] повністю або частково уникнути,
[00:07:28] Єгоре?
[00:07:30] I think no, absolutely, because we must
[00:07:33] understand the reasons for such a crisis and
[00:07:37] the main positions from the United
[00:07:40] States, it's not about Ukraine, it's about relations
[00:07:44] with the Russian Federation, firstly, and secondly,
[00:07:47] a-a, Trump just wants to accuse
[00:07:51] Ukraine of high prices on
[00:07:55] the domestic diesel market. Which
[00:07:58] absolutely lacks logic or
[00:08:01] confirmation, because, even if we
[00:08:04] assume that the Russian Federation, we
[00:08:07] would, if we hadn't hit these same refineries, and it still
[00:08:11] sold. diesel for export, then the Russian
[00:08:15] Federation in its best times had
[00:08:19] 12% of the world,
[00:08:23] world market and 3% of diesel consumption
[00:08:26] in the world, that is, it
[00:08:30] is and it is for
[00:08:32] the whole world, I emphasize, yes,
[00:08:35] plus the fact that the Russian Federation
[00:08:39] offered Trump in the form of. help with
[00:08:43] this diesel, that is 1.8
[00:08:47] cumulatively million tons
[00:08:50] of diesel, and this until April 7,
[00:08:53] it will not affect domestic prices at all, because consumption
[00:08:57] there is many
[00:09:00] times more than, and energy experts say this, but if
[00:09:04] we talk about the diplomatic side of the issue, do you think that this crisis
[00:09:07] could not be avoided, I believe it
[00:09:11] could not. because in principle, from what I
[00:09:15] see, how Trump behaves in relations with the Russian
[00:09:18] Federation, he in principle constantly helps
[00:09:22] Russia not to fall and not to collapse, in this
[00:09:25] case through such actions
[00:09:27] regarding the diesel deal.
[00:09:30] Oleksiy, do you agree with what Yehor says, do you think
[00:09:34] this crisis could have been avoided?
[00:09:37] Unfortunately, I don't agree with what Yehor says for a very simple
[00:09:41] reason. If we had one single problem in
[00:09:45] Ukraine in foreign policy, and it was with Donald Trump,
[00:09:48] then I would say that, well, indeed, maybe we should look for the
[00:09:52] reason here, because, you see, with everyone else everything is fine, but with Donald Trump
[00:09:56] it's bad. Should I remind you that we are the only country in the world
[00:10:00] that currently has a conflict with North Korea and with South
[00:10:03] simultaneously. North simply fights against us together with
[00:10:06] Russia, but this should have naturally led us to very
[00:10:10] good and close relations with South Korea, but somehow
[00:10:13] we managed with them, to America, let's go back to America,
[00:10:16] with Korea this is an example, you asked, you asked
[00:10:20] me, so look, do we have, well, what country, with all
[00:10:23] neighbors it's difficult. Well, I'm not talking about Russia at all, it's clear
[00:10:27] here that it's an aggressor, but with all others too, and when
[00:10:31] our president, well, everyone knows, everyone
[00:10:34] knows that for Donald Trump it's a red
[00:10:37] flag, it's any
[00:10:39] public, devaluation
[00:10:43] of his power,
[00:10:52] same can be done, at least without the press, when'... constantly commenting
[00:10:55] on all this to various publications very often, which for Trump
[00:10:59] look like they are affiliated with his rivals, the Democrats, this
[00:11:03] is a mistake, this is just a mistake, well, and the last thing, which
[00:11:06] also, the question is simple, what prevents us from at least having an ambassador in
[00:11:10] the United States of America, a separate topic in the USA
[00:11:13] does not exist, well, as a separate one, this is the answer, this is the answer to your
[00:11:16] question, could this have been avoided, well, in order to
[00:11:20] avoid this, countries actually have ambassadors, Ambassador Shamshur was once
[00:11:23] an excellent ambassador of Ukraine. To the United States of America, if at that moment when
[00:11:27] he worked there, we had no ambassador, then our relations would have been
[00:11:31] more difficult then too, we just were not at
[00:11:34] war, such, and now we are in such a war that makes
[00:11:38] this position even more important, we don't have anyone there at all, I
[00:11:42] remind you, I remind you, Volodymyr Zelensky made a statement at the end of August
[00:11:45] that he already has a candidate for ambassador to the USA, but after that we do not
[00:11:49] see any steps, Mr.
[00:11:51] Ambassador, for you today, you know, the role of an arbiter. How do you
[00:11:55] think, who of the deputies is right,
[00:11:58] could this crisis have been avoided and to what extent? I would
[00:12:02] say this way, avoiding, not avoiding,
[00:12:05] maybe not so, important,
[00:12:09] it is clear that, let's say, some
[00:12:12] statements were too emotional, but
[00:12:16] the main thing is that we once again fell into the
[00:12:20] millstones of American
[00:12:22] politics, that is, everything... it is necessary to explain
[00:12:26] the situation that arose primarily
[00:12:28] due to what is happening in
[00:12:32] American politics, that is,
[00:12:35] midterm elections are approaching, Trump, despite his
[00:12:38] bravado, is aware of how this looks now, and what
[00:12:42] consequences it may have for him and for his
[00:12:45] Republican party, the main issue is
[00:12:49] the issue of the purchasing power
[00:12:53] of Americans, the main issue is
[00:12:56] inflation, the issue
[00:12:59] of fuel prices, and
[00:13:02] it is clear that everyone associates
[00:13:05] this with the war with Iran and the situation that
[00:13:09] has developed, particularly in the Romanian Strait.
[00:13:12] Trump needs to explain this somehow,
[00:13:16] it is clear that he cannot explain it a priori
[00:13:19] through mistakes, his
[00:13:22] political mistakes, this absolutely unnecessary and senseless
[00:13:26] war with Iran, and
[00:13:28] therefore he is looking for a way to explain this,
[00:13:31] such an explanation, strikes
[00:13:34] on oil refineries, Russian by Ukraine, I
[00:13:38] absolutely do not exclude that this idea could have been given to him
[00:13:41] by the Russians, or by those who, well, let's say,
[00:13:45] are close to both Trump and the Russians, and
[00:13:48] in this way he decided to choose
[00:13:52] Ukraine as a scapegoat. At the same time, I would like to
[00:13:55] emphasize that I absolutely do not exclude that
[00:13:58] he really believes that prices are affected
[00:14:02] by Ukrainian strikes on
[00:14:05] Russian oil refineries, this is typical Trump. And in
[00:14:09] principle, the situation that has developed
[00:14:13] can certainly have very bad consequences, and you
[00:14:16] have already spoken about arms supplies,
[00:14:19] and about intelligence data
[00:14:23] supplies. But I also
[00:14:26] see that in the long run the relations between Trump and
[00:14:29] Zelensky will be even worse, this could have been,
[00:14:33] well, a priori, again, survived, if it wasn't for
[00:14:37] Trump, who is inclined to look at bilateral
[00:14:40] relations, in any variant, through the prism of his attitude towards
[00:14:44] this or that foreign leader, in
[00:14:47] this case we are dealing with
[00:14:51] a negative, such a negative attitude towards the president.
[00:14:55] of Ukraine, that's how the situation looks, and I
[00:14:58] think, that the election results will affect
[00:15:02] it, if they are bad
[00:15:06] for Trump, then Ukraine and Zelensky will again be appointed
[00:15:09] as the main responsible for bad results. Then I have
[00:15:12] a question for Yehor Cherniv, you represent the defense intelligence committee, we are now
[00:15:16] talking about the risk that Ukraine will stop intelligence exchange, I understand
[00:15:20] that it is not so much an exchange as
[00:15:23] the USA literally provides this intelligence to Ukraine, it's about the supply
[00:15:27] of American weapons, yes, which are bought, but nevertheless, they are supplied
[00:15:30] from the United States, how seriously do you take these warnings
[00:15:34] that all this can stop against the background of this crisis?
[00:15:39] we have already been through this, and unfortunately, it is
[00:15:42] possible, but we have certain safeguards,
[00:15:46] we learned lessons after the first
[00:15:50] such case, when we were
[00:15:53] cut off, they stopped sharing intelligence with us,
[00:15:57] firstly, we, found
[00:16:00] alternatives with our European colleagues,
[00:16:03] yes, they are not in such a volume as we need, as they provide
[00:16:08] the United States, firstly,
[00:16:10] secondly, our friends in Congress, in particular
[00:16:14] through our requests, to introduce an amendment to one of
[00:16:17] the laws, in which, which sounds something like this,
[00:16:21] that before making a decision, the Pentagon or
[00:16:24] the CIA, regarding
[00:16:28] the suspension of intelligence data provision, must
[00:16:31] consult with the relevant intelligence committee
[00:16:35] of Congress.
[00:16:38] Now Congress is practically no longer working, now
[00:16:41] it is preparing for new
[00:16:44] elections, so yes, they can violate,
[00:16:47] well, theoretically they can violate,
[00:16:50] but the responsibility
[00:16:53] of both the Pentagon and the CIA before
[00:16:56] Congress does not disappear,
[00:16:59] so in short, can
[00:17:02] they do it, they can, but now we are more prepared than
[00:17:06] we were. when it happened the first time, meaning you are ready for
[00:17:10] intelligence sharing to stop and arms supplies too, are you
[00:17:13] ready for arms supplies from the United States to stop? With
[00:17:16] weapons it's more complicated, because a certain number of Patriot
[00:17:20] missiles we still receive under the Pell program,
[00:17:23] and here it is necessary, this is when Europeans pay, it means,
[00:17:27] yes, Europeans pay, and
[00:17:30] Europeans still, even despite these small
[00:17:33] batches. find in their
[00:17:36] own warehouses
[00:17:39] what they can allocate, even despite the fact that they
[00:17:43] reduce their defense capability below the critical level,
[00:17:46] in particular this is the same Germany,
[00:17:49] in European countries there are approximately another
[00:17:53] 600 Patriot missiles available
[00:17:57] for that, well, in their warehouses, how many
[00:18:01] they will be able to transfer to us, negotiations are currently underway and
[00:18:04] gradually some. are provided to us, this
[00:18:08] is the most critical part of what is purchased in the United
[00:18:12] States, besides this there are
[00:18:15] spare parts for this equipment that we use,
[00:18:19] well, and some other nomenclature,
[00:18:21] but it is not as critical as the missiles for
[00:18:25] Patriot. Oleksiy, a question for you, you
[00:18:28] criticized the diplomatic side of the coin,
[00:18:31] mentioned that there is no ambassador, and what
[00:18:34] to do now to minimize the consequences, I can even give your example, you
[00:18:37] recently proposed your peace plan, you say let's involve third
[00:18:41] countries, you saw today an example, Donald Trump announced
[00:18:44] an energy truce, and
[00:18:47] Russia and that elections should be held
[00:18:51] there, Russia is generally not ready to accept anything
[00:18:54] that Donald Trump says, and here is an example for you, when Russia is really not
[00:18:57] ready for peace,
[00:18:59] миру,
[00:19:02] definitely not ready for peace, there is no doubt about that, but that does not mean
[00:19:06] that one cannot conduct. talks and persuade them to this peace, it is precisely
[00:19:10] my peace plan, as you called it, that proposed
[00:19:13] expanding the circle of countries through which we work, I just spoke about
[00:19:17] the fact that working exclusively through the USA is a mistake, and that
[00:19:21] it is necessary to break it down into tracks, involve other countries. Secondly,
[00:19:24] it is obvious that Trump's statement or his post on
[00:19:27] social networks, there Truth Social, well, this is such
[00:19:30] diplomacy, when I spoke about diplomacy, it is still real
[00:19:34] negotiations, and I just, you asked, what should
[00:19:37] be done, I will tell you what should be done, well,
[00:19:41] firstly, there are banal things, such as, for example, appointing at least an ambassador and
[00:19:44] appointing preferably such an ambassador who will not be suspected
[00:19:48] of corruption after some time, as it was with the previous ambassador,
[00:19:51] but there is also
[00:19:54] recognizing reality and acting accordingly, what do I mean, it was not
[00:19:57] a secret, and not only this concerns the USA, now we are talking about
[00:20:01] the USA and Diesel, and remember the recent decision
[00:20:04] of the Europeans to lift sanctions from Usmanov and Fridman. Remember
[00:20:07] the recent decision of Great Britain, our close friend, to lift
[00:20:11] sanctions from Russian kerosene, when they needed it, and remember the recent
[00:20:15] decision of Estonia, well, it seems, the closest country, on certain
[00:20:19] Russian companies where they need and benefit from it, so
[00:20:22] it is obvious that there is a certain erosion of sanctions, and it is obvious
[00:20:26] that we cannot influence this, because they may simply not ask us, no one will
[00:20:30] ask us, but will do as they see fit, so let's,
[00:20:34] and we knew that for the USA this is a question, and we... knew about
[00:20:38] this and it was just necessary to involve
[00:20:41] our interest in this, what we would be ready for, let's say, if we
[00:20:45] still cannot stop it, let Russian diesel go to world
[00:20:49] markets, but... along with it, Ukrainian grain also goes to world markets, and
[00:20:52] for this, the blockade of ports, attacks on ships that
[00:20:56] go to Ukrainian ports, and so on and so forth must stop. Politics and
[00:21:00] diplomacy is the art of the possible, you are talking
[00:21:03] about exchange, you are talking about exchange, unfortunately,
[00:21:06] yes, yes, I am saying that we are, unfortunately, chasing
[00:21:10] the impossible, losing
[00:21:13] opportunities, excuse the tautology, to achieve the possible, that's
[00:21:17] what I mean, and this is the problem. And we repeat
[00:21:21] this mistake again and again, so in my
[00:21:24] opinion, we need to act this way, and I repeat, turn on
[00:21:27] first of all the mode of no comments, no criticism
[00:21:30] of Trump, it adds nothing to us, as my colleague said,
[00:21:34] well, we will live without intelligence data, and without their weapons, well,
[00:21:38] excuse me, but what does that mean we will live, not everyone will live without
[00:21:41] it, we will pay for this, we will pay
[00:21:44] the highest possible price for this, more new lost Ukrainian
[00:21:47] military personnel, civilians and so on. We must not allow this, for
[00:21:51] this someone just needs to shut their mouth publicly, for this
[00:21:55] it is necessary to form a team that is capable of achieving
[00:21:58] results, because if the same people go to the same
[00:22:01] places with the same task, and they always have the same
[00:22:05] result, namely zero, then something needs to
[00:22:07] be changed, Mr. Ambassador, I will give you the floor now,
[00:22:11] excuse me, I want Yehor to react, how much do you agree with
[00:22:14] what your colleague says, could we really exchange
[00:22:18] not striking oil refineries for something? use,
[00:22:21] використати,
[00:22:24] I agree 0%, because it is
[00:22:28] very
[00:22:30] easy to comment on this whole story when you are not
[00:22:34] inside the perimeter and do not understand
[00:22:37] how, what is the logic of events
[00:22:41] in the Kremlin, in
[00:22:44] the United States, then you can say that well,
[00:22:47] nothing was done, and the fact that... that
[00:22:50] any truce options were proposed,
[00:22:54] starting from a truce in the Black Sea, a grain truce,
[00:22:58] an energy truce, an air truce, a naval
[00:23:02] truce, a complete truce,
[00:23:05] stopping the war, and so on, and so on, and so on, and
[00:23:09] none of these options was ever supported by the Russian
[00:23:13] Federation, through the United States,
[00:23:16] through Europe, through third, through fifth. through
[00:23:20] ten countries, through the Middle East, I remind you,
[00:23:23] that we worked through all possible countries that can
[00:23:27] reach the Kremlin, but here it is necessary to
[00:23:31] understand inside our
[00:23:34] country that the issue is not with Ukraine and not with
[00:23:37] the United States, the issue is exclusively with
[00:23:40] Russia, which does not want to stop,
[00:23:44] and does not want any truce, and this whole
[00:23:47] story about us, let's take some... small
[00:23:50] steps to reach real
[00:23:53] peace, would work great, if the Russian
[00:23:57] Federation made some
[00:24:00] compromises, everything else is a farce, and these proposals
[00:24:04] that it can work, all
[00:24:08] possible options
[00:24:10] for
[00:24:20] him, so... life does not confirm what my colleague says, in
[00:24:22] 2022 we agreement on the grain
[00:24:25] corridor, three months ago ships went to Ukrainian
[00:24:29] ports, not in 2022, but three months
[00:24:33] ago ships went, this means that it is
[00:24:36] possible to negotiate, concrete fact, this
[00:24:40] is not theorizing, not slogans, about which nothing
[00:24:43] is possible, this is a fact that was, this is a fact that can be
[00:24:47] achieved again if you work on it. And if you just
[00:24:50] say that nothing is possible, well, of course, then nothing will happen,
[00:24:54] if the Armed Forces of Ukraine said, nothing is possible,
[00:24:57] to stop such a country and the Russian army, then there would be no
[00:25:01] Ukraine. Excuse me, Mr.
[00:25:04] Ambassador, what do you think about how to minimize
[00:25:08] the consequences now, and is it possible to minimize them at all, and to
[00:25:11] what extent? Well, first of all, I would like to say that I
[00:25:15] believe that the cessation of intelligence
[00:25:18] data supply and
[00:25:21] the provision of weapons, including through the PUR, this is quite
[00:25:25] real. The fact that American lawmakers
[00:25:28] morally and
[00:25:31] ethically approved it may be pleasant, but it is unlikely to
[00:25:34] affect Trump. Secondly, I
[00:25:38] believed and still believe, it may be very simple,
[00:25:42] but until Putin is stopped,
[00:25:45] that is, until the situation
[00:25:49] on the front is stabilized, and until
[00:25:52] the sanctions regime is
[00:25:56] tightened, he will not stop, and
[00:25:59] any negotiations with him, and the expectation of a positive
[00:26:03] outcome of these negotiations is an absolute
[00:26:05] illusion. Third, answering your
[00:26:09] question, what can be done now?
[00:26:12] Well, the simplest thing is, as already mentioned, the appointment
[00:26:16] of an ambassador. As I said, this ambassador must
[00:26:19] be a very skilled, effective communicator,
[00:26:23] and he can and should lead
[00:26:26] the process of collecting reliable information. The fact that we
[00:26:29] found ourselves and were surprised
[00:26:34] by Trump just indicates that both diplomacy and our
[00:26:38] intelligence agencies are not collecting enough information.
[00:26:41] What can be done now, in my opinion, unfortunately, very
[00:26:45] little. That is, now, I would
[00:26:48] say two things, well, as we say, two
[00:26:52] tracks. The external track, this really needs to
[00:26:56] focus on
[00:26:59] negotiations, agreements, development
[00:27:02] plans with our European partners, because
[00:27:06] a lot depends on them now. Can
[00:27:09] Trump be influenced? I believe
[00:27:12] that now it is impossible, we need to
[00:27:15] wait for the elections
[00:27:18] to take place, and unfortunately, in
[00:27:22] any scenario, it also does not look very
[00:27:25] is the internal track, that is, we definitely need to make
[00:27:29] changes within the country that
[00:27:32] we, say, expect, society expects
[00:27:36] from the government, from the president, and which are not
[00:27:39] happening. That is, without changing
[00:27:42] the model of power
[00:27:45] that we have, that is, both cleansing the government and a more effective
[00:27:49] model, and not a model when five or six people who
[00:27:53] are close to the president, but are clearly not the most
[00:27:55] competent, that is, to count on external factors
[00:27:59] working without us making
[00:28:03] radical changes within the country, in my opinion, is also an
[00:28:06] illusion. Yegor, you raised your hand, but let me ask you a question,
[00:28:10] maybe you know, what about the ambassador? Look, how long has there been no
[00:28:14] ambassador? This is the first question, and the second question, it
[00:28:17] really looks strange that in the delegation there is the head of the foreign
[00:28:21] intelligence service, and the news about the diesel deal between Putin and
[00:28:25] Trump somehow caught Ukraine by surprise, or don't you have such
[00:28:29] questions?
[00:28:32] Well, I will first
[00:28:35] comment
[00:28:37] on the Black Sea and the fact that ships
[00:28:40] sailed, and ships sailed, in 2022
[00:28:44] drones did not fly, the war is changing and the goals are changing
[00:28:47] and the capabilities of both sides are changing, and both sides
[00:28:51] within
[00:28:54] their capabilities inflict strikes, and in
[00:28:57] this case we had
[00:29:01] an agreement with the Russian Federation and
[00:29:03] an agreement with the Turks, through
[00:29:06] the Turks with the Russian Federation about the same corridor. At that time they
[00:29:10] were ready. Now they are not ready.
[00:29:13] Again, I will repeat, that this proposal
[00:29:17] was sent through the United States, through third countries
[00:29:20] to the Russian Federation, it refused this
[00:29:23] truce. As for
[00:29:26] the ambassador, honestly, I don't know, I don't have
[00:29:29] information about the problem with finding an ambassador, well, probably,
[00:29:33] that there is no such candidate who
[00:29:36] would
[00:29:38] combine all the necessary qualities and
[00:29:42] experience and good relations with Republicans
[00:29:45] and Trump, and that she would be there,
[00:29:49] I know that some
[00:29:53] quite highly
[00:29:55] placed
[00:29:57] and experienced diplomats
[00:30:01] were offered, but they refused
[00:30:04] such a proposal. As
[00:30:07] for the second question, what was it,
[00:30:11] I was surprised, I expressed surprise that the whole
[00:30:14] head of the foreign intelligence service, whose family
[00:30:17] lives in the United States, I don't know how ethical, correct and
[00:30:21] safe this is, but he went to the United States
[00:30:24] and didn't know that there would be such a surprise
[00:30:27] here, also a good
[00:30:30] question, does this show the qualification
[00:30:34] of the foreign intelligence service? Probably so,
[00:30:37] mm-hmm, but honestly, our guru, well, this is
[00:30:41] my personal perception,
[00:30:44] works better in principle historically with information
[00:30:48] gathering, and well, plus we
[00:30:51] don't conduct intelligence
[00:30:54] against the United States, no, well,
[00:30:58] it's just such a...