FRANCE24 — broadcast
20260926 140000 UTC
480 transcript segments
Google Cloud Speech-to-Text API (Chirp) + Gemini 2.5 Flash Non-Thinking
Data courtesy of The GDELT Project (https://www.gdeltproject.org/), from the Internet Archive TV News Archive.
Machine transcription. Treat it as a searchable index of what was broadcast, not a verbatim quotation record.

[00:00:01] abuses spanning seven decades. The
[00:00:03] restorative bodies created by
[00:00:06] of women and the episcopate after the publication of this report, as well as the victim
[00:00:09] collectives, are already calling it a missed opportunity. They would
[00:00:13] have preferred a full day of collective discussion. The
[00:00:16] Catholic authorities have implemented protection measures and financial
[00:00:20] reparations, but the victims continue to demand
[00:00:23] accountability and more
[00:00:30] Hadji, Father François Euvé, we
[00:00:33] heard these testimonies, the expectation around the acts and
[00:00:37] some already consider it a missed opportunity to meet these
[00:00:40] people only in Lourdes, while the scale and number of these
[00:00:43] victims still exceed 300,000 people. Is it
[00:00:47] a missed opportunity from your point of view? We'll see, let's wait
[00:00:50] and see what happens first before making a judgment. So indeed, one might say
[00:00:54] perhaps, perhaps yes, it would have been preferable to
[00:00:58] meet with associations that, like
[00:01:01] death. Thank you, and Christ's Constance, were really at the starting point of the awareness. If it hadn't been for the role of these
[00:01:05] associations, by the way, Pope Leo, in Magnifica o
[00:01:08] Manitas, if I recall correctly, makes a
[00:01:11] positive remark in favor of all
[00:01:15] whistleblowers, well, that's not the word, but of those who, outside of
[00:01:21] dimension of the church, allowed for awareness. So, that's what needs to be welcomed, not just because of
[00:01:24] victims, well, I don't know which ones will be received,
[00:01:27] but victims in front of a pope or in front of a
[00:01:31] disproportion, it's not
[00:01:34] easy for them, so it shouldn't be just a sort of
[00:01:38] beautiful spiritual encounters and
[00:01:42] so on with beautiful words, but ultimately associations, of course,
[00:01:46] they are more incisive, they have more
[00:01:49] strength. Well, it's perhaps a shame that it didn't go through
[00:01:53] associations, some of which are finally making proposals,
[00:01:57] making proposals. We're going to look perhaps. part of
[00:02:00] this platform, but there you go, which proposes to open the archives
[00:02:04] precisely related to these cases of violence,
[00:02:08] which also proposes to create memorial sites dedicated to all
[00:02:10] victims in accessible places in dioceses, in St.
[00:02:14] Peter's Square in Rome, to give a clear mandate also to your bishops around the world to
[00:02:18] undertake in their dioceses in-depth actions on past and
[00:02:21] present crimes. There are proposals being made that only need to be
[00:02:25] applied. So things have already been done, there have already been
[00:02:29] symbolic elements.
[00:02:30] uh, Italians,
[00:02:37] Unfortunately, it's not everywhere either, well, that's something to see, obviously each bishop is a bit independent,
[00:02:41] so that's sometimes the limit of the thing,
[00:02:44] but what I want to say is also that it should
[00:02:48] lead to a fundamental reflection. That is to say, ultimately, this clerical functioning
[00:02:51] does not disappear completely. So this
[00:02:54] hold, because the sacralization of the figure of the
[00:02:58] priest, well, there are elements on a more
[00:03:02] theoretical level, if you will, that in my opinion deserve to be
[00:03:05] taken into consideration so as not to simply say, "Well, they made a few
[00:03:09] symbolic gestures, it's good, they gave money, and that's it, we're
[00:03:12] done." That seems a bit too short. I'm
[00:03:16] not a specialist in the question, I haven't really, or perhaps not sufficiently,
[00:03:19] studied these files, but as the religious man you are,
[00:03:23] also in your heart of hearts, you say that enough has been
[00:03:27] done, that there is still a long way to go today. We are ready
[00:03:30] to hear the words of these victims and no longer silence them. You spoke earlier
[00:03:34] of silence, of secrets, of fear that we will discover in
[00:03:38] 10 years, in 20 years, because it has actually emerged in the
[00:03:43] always at the United States, in Ireland, in France, in countries like Germany,
[00:03:46] there are reports, things are breaking out, why?
[00:03:50] Because people are starting to understand that this
[00:03:54] movement is like #MeToo, ultimately, a movement of
[00:03:57] transparency that means people dare to speak out. There are associations
[00:04:02] Uh, they debate in the United States, Boston, the Boston Globe, which had
[00:04:04] done the work. The press's role was
[00:04:08] fundamental in the emergence of the scandal in the
[00:04:11] United States, and there's a
[00:04:15] film that tells that story very well,
[00:04:17] America. However, the future of and it's not
[00:04:19] the same in Africa, people don't dare
[00:04:23] to denounce the social power
[00:04:26] of a bishop, of a priest in society. What does
[00:04:30] a little boy or girl who would tell his
[00:04:34] mom, this happened,
[00:04:38] evolution of societies and that his mom would probably say, "Be quiet, be quiet, nothing happened." We're going to turn a blind eye for another 10
[00:04:43] the church. I think it's long. That's what years, 20 years, and I'm afraid that we will take missionaries
[00:04:47] often too, more and more, perhaps these
[00:04:50] scandals will break out for another 50 years
[00:04:54] elsewhere than here,
[00:04:57] steps of where the victims are stronger, the victims' associations and where the press also does its job
[00:05:01] and where there are initiatives like the ones
[00:05:04] churches are capable of taking, like the report. I wanted to
[00:05:07] briefly come back to the commission Sauvé, which I had the opportunity to meet
[00:05:11] several times. Jean-Marc Sauvé and what he told me, what
[00:05:15] struck him and his commission the most, is what the
[00:05:18] victims said. That is to say, they are not just
[00:05:21] victims, they are people who have experienced something
[00:05:25] and who have things to say that only they can say, but we must
[00:05:29] create the conditions for them to say it,
[00:05:32] give them access to speech, and that was all the work, one
[00:05:36] of the strong points of the commission, apart from the figures and
[00:05:39] so on, to give victims a voice. Alice Casagrande,
[00:05:43] who is one of the members of the commission, speaks of the knowledge of victims, and that is something
[00:05:47] that we still have a long way to go,
[00:05:51] to truly listen to them, not
[00:05:53] just, I would say, quickly listen to their
[00:05:57] story, but how they experienced it, what they
[00:06:00] experienced spiritually as well. There is a strong message to
[00:06:04] hear that is difficult to hear because it calls into
[00:06:07] question a mode of functioning in the church that needs to be questioned,
[00:06:10] and an important challenge is to re-establish
[00:06:14] a safe church, a safe home for all. Yes, so
[00:06:18] the zero risk does not exist, but to re-establish
[00:06:21] a relationship of trust. You made the connection earlier between these young Catholics who no longer dared to claim
[00:06:25] themselves as such because there was a whole image behind it.
[00:06:29] This is also a challenge for the church that we could come back to.
[00:06:33] I'm coming back to the present moment, this present moment that you
[00:06:36] are still following on our channels on France 24, this mass that is
[00:06:40] still continuing on Place de la Concorde.
[00:06:49] As we talked about communion earlier, this is currently the moment of communion, absolutely, and this is also what a rather complicated organization will be for us, but it works in any case, apparently. We were talking earlier about discipline, and it's also perhaps, it must be said, thanks to the mobilization of all these volunteers that we see mobilizing
[00:06:52] mais qui fonctionne en tout cas manifestement on parlait tout à l'heure de de de
[00:06:56] discipline et c'est aussi peut-être il faut le dire grâce à la mobilisation de tous ces ces
[00:06:59] with this "Team Leon
[00:07:03] XIV" t-shirt, Florence Gaillard. We are therefore in the middle of
[00:07:07] communion.
[00:07:10] Absolutely, the priests who were just behind me, who were all in
[00:07:14] white, stood up as one man.
[00:07:17] That's why you see empty chairs behind me, these are the priests who were sitting
[00:07:21] behind, but who all stood up, who knew where they were going and they
[00:07:24] are at different points of the Place de la Concorde and the Avenue des
[00:07:28] Champs-Élysées, the priests, the seminarians, the deacons
[00:07:31] who distribute communion to the 60,000,
[00:07:35] 70,000, perhaps 1 million faithful who are spread from the Place de la
[00:07:39] Concorde up to the Arc de Triomphe, perhaps to the
[00:07:42] Avenue de la Grande Armée as well. Earlier you had interviewed a seminarian,
[00:07:46] Mary Shuster interviewed a seminarian who was participating in this
[00:07:49] communion, and you just spoke of this army of
[00:07:53] volunteers, nearly 15,000 volunteers, so
[00:07:56] young and old, who as soon as they knew there was a papal visit
[00:08:00] mobilized, signed up and said, "We will be there."
[00:08:04] We found them this morning at 8 am, they were
[00:08:08] there like one man, even though they were already at the vigil at the
[00:08:12] Stade de France last night, they were there, making
[00:08:15] sure everything went very well, and you are right, everything is happening in
[00:08:19] calm, joy, good humor, and currently in
[00:08:23] contemplation, and we must really tip our hats to them because
[00:08:26] frankly, they are doing an incredible job, yeah, and we saw them
[00:08:30] precisely thanks to their t-shirts, hence
[00:08:33] also the fact that we can highlight their presence. I
[00:08:37] will pause for a moment on this moment of communion. Once again, I am thinking of
[00:08:40] you and the viewers who are following
[00:08:42] this moment that we are covering as, first of all, a historic
[00:08:46] moment that is taking place right now in our country. What exactly is this
[00:08:50] moment of communion, just as we explained yesterday in a little more detail what
[00:08:54] vespers are? Florence, perhaps a few words or Father
[00:08:57] François Evet, but it is also important to clearly define what is
[00:09:01] happening, once again for all those who do not necessarily have this Catholic
[00:09:04] culture.
[00:09:07] So, I'm going to let the priest talk about communion,
[00:09:11] since that's more a mission of
[00:09:14] consecrated men in holy orders. I am but a
[00:09:18] humble woman, Nabia, as you know. Now, from
[00:09:22] what I understand, it's the moment when, from the
[00:09:25] moment the host is consecrated by the priest or by the Pope, there is
[00:09:29] transubstantiation, meaning Catholics believe
[00:09:32] that this piece of host, this piece of bread, becomes the
[00:09:36] body of Christ and the consecrated wine becomes the blood of Christ. That is why
[00:09:40] it must be consumed immediately because it must
[00:09:44] not linger since it is the body of Christ. So when the
[00:09:47] communion is finished, if there is any left, the
[00:09:51] host is returned to the tabernacle, which is kind of
[00:09:54] a sacred antechamber that contains the
[00:10:18] that communion is going very well. Stay with us, we're going to give the floor back to Father François about
[00:10:22] this moment of communion, just to better understand it. I'll come back to you, Florence,
[00:10:25] because you have precisely dedicated a report to this question
[00:10:31] the ordination of women, and your perspective interests us here on set, what
[00:10:35] you have observed and retained about communion.
[00:10:38] First of all, what Florence Gaillard just said, yes, so
[00:10:42] very, very quickly, especially for those outside the
[00:10:45] Christian and Catholic tradition in particular, well, to avoid
[00:10:49] all magical stuff and so on, what's important is that it
[00:10:52] goes back, if you will, to the Last Supper of
[00:10:55] Jesus who shared the bread, it's the tradition in Jewish meals who
[00:10:59] shared the bread, and in this sharing of bread he said,
[00:11:03] "This is my body." It's not so much the
[00:11:06] object as such that matters, but the fact that it is precisely
[00:11:10] shared. It's the symbol of the total gift of his
[00:11:13] life that is expressed by this sharing. And so,
[00:11:17] everyone, I mean, the participants
[00:11:20] take this bread which therefore has acquired
[00:11:24] a value. It's not simply
[00:11:27] ordinary bread, it's not mundane bread, it has acquired precisely through the
[00:11:30] symbolic meaning in the strong sense of the word, a
[00:11:34] gesture of total gift, of sharing, of total self-giving,
[00:11:38] and communion is a way of manifesting
[00:11:41] precisely this communion with Christ. We unite
[00:11:44] ourselves by sharing the life of Christ, the
[00:11:48] very life of Christ. Can everyone participate or are there certain
[00:11:51] conditions, having gone through certain
[00:11:55] things? No, well, you have to be Catholic, you have to
[00:11:58] be, you have to be, you have to not be divorced
[00:12:01] and remarried, a lot of things. Ah, so there are still certain
[00:12:04] conditions.
[00:12:07] Conditions, that's it. So more or less relaxed depending on the interpreter, but
[00:12:11] finally, I would say, without getting into the legalism of
[00:12:14] things, obviously for it to make
[00:12:17] sense, you have to adhere to the deep
[00:12:21] message. Otherwise, obviously, it has no
[00:12:24] value. It's, well, you have to be in communion with
[00:12:27] the church, and precisely, we don't know, we don't know if
[00:12:31] the political figures in the tribune have
[00:12:35] received or not, have communed or not. First of all,
[00:12:38] some of them and in what
[00:12:40] capacity?
[00:12:44] Does the situation of each simply authorize them or not to
[00:12:47] receive? That's a good, that's a good
[00:12:51] question. We'll ask her about that, Florence, are you still with us?
[00:12:57] So, two questions. I'm listening. There was
[00:13:01] no, this question and this eminently important question also regarding the
[00:13:04] place of women. We had discussed it earlier on set here with
[00:13:07] Constance and then Father
[00:13:10] François, I know you have dedicated a report
[00:13:14] to it, and the question obviously continues to be
[00:13:17] debated, the place of these women in the Church who would also like to be ordained, who could
[00:13:21] who would like to have access to the priesthood.
[00:13:26] I think it's very good that we're talking about it on this set because France 24 is a
[00:13:30] public service channel and it's a very important debate that
[00:13:34] some try to avoid, but I think
[00:13:38] that given the crisis of vocations within the Church,
[00:13:41] especially in Europe and France, it's a subject that will be less and less
[00:13:44] avoidable. Why? Because two-thirds of Catholic assemblies are made
[00:13:48] up of women today. The catechumenate phenomenon, we said it,
[00:13:52] it's a phenomenon that affects 18-30 year olds. 5 years and
[00:13:55] the majority once again is female. So there's this
[00:13:59] kind of paradox that means we have churches full of
[00:14:03] women, well, at least with 2/3 women and
[00:14:08] altar and on the stage only men.
[00:14:10] hommes,
[00:14:13] But it's not easy for the Pope, it's not easy for those who are
[00:14:16] responsible because they are on a tightrope, that is to say, they know
[00:14:20] that the subject is important, they know that in Europe, we
[00:14:24] are pushing for a feminization of the clergy, notably in
[00:14:27] Germany, notably also
[00:14:31] in Great Britain, but as you said on set, we are digging in our
[00:14:35] heels in the southern hemisphere, meaning in Africa and
[00:14:38] in Asia and South
[00:14:42] the Church, as they say, is playing out in the southern
[00:14:45] hemisphere, so it's not easy for the current
[00:14:49] authorities. But why, why, Florence, what is the main
[00:14:52] official argument that
[00:15:01] serves the church just like men? Is there a reason that is invoked? Absolutely, in the report,
[00:15:04] I had indeed interviewed two categories of
[00:15:08] women: some women who claim to already be Roman Catholic
[00:15:12] priests. There are associations of Roman Catholic women
[00:15:15] priests; they are obviously not recognized by the church currently. And I had
[00:15:19] also interviewed the Women's Ordination
[00:15:22] Conference, which is an American association that has existed since
[00:15:26] 1975 and is very active and mobilizes,
[00:15:29] notably with the Vatican in Rome, to make the voices of women
[00:15:33] who wish to be ordained heard. It
[00:15:35] must be said because these are courageous women who regularly go to
[00:15:39] Rome and try to speak to the Pope and to the
[00:15:42] Catholic Church authorities, but for now they are not very well known
[00:15:46] and they are not heard.
[00:15:49] Now, what I want to say is that what is opposed to women is
[00:15:52] that Christ was honored by 12 apostles, the 12
[00:15:56] apostles who recalled the 12 tribes of Israel in the Old Testament, and that these 12
[00:16:00] apostles were men, and therefore,
[00:16:03] priests cannot be women. To which feminists
[00:16:08] reply, but there were women who followed Christ, the
[00:16:11] proof is Mary Magdalene. Mary Magdalene who
[00:16:14] followed Christ to the foot of the cross, unlike the 12
[00:16:18] apostles, and especially Mary Magdalene, the first to
[00:16:21] whom the resurrected Christ appeared, and that's why
[00:16:25] today feminists claim more than the Virgin, they claim
[00:16:28] this famous Mary Magdalene, Mary of Magdala, who was
[00:16:31] there throughout the process and especially during the most important stages of
[00:16:35] Christ's life and Christ's
[00:16:39] resurrection. Thank you very much,
[00:16:42] Florence. Father François, what Florence just said, the church of tomorrow will be made with
[00:16:46] women, it will have to be made with women, it's a matter of time, I think. I think
[00:16:49] that, well, the Protestant world has already been for some
[00:16:53] decades, well, it's the status of the
[00:16:56] pastor, sorry, the Protestant pastor is not the same as that of the Catholic
[00:16:59] priest. There's a sacred side, a sacralization of the
[00:17:03] Catholic priest, unlike among Protestants. So
[00:17:06] they ordain female pastors. The Anglicans, a sort of
[00:17:10] intermediate position, also for a little less time, have
[00:17:13] priests and even bishops
[00:17:17] who are women. So
[00:17:20] indeed, on the Protestant side or
[00:17:24] Anglican side, we find the situation. Now, if we take
[00:17:27] comparisons elsewhere, that is to say, in Islam or in
[00:17:30] Judaism, female imams are not very common,
[00:17:34] yes, female rabbis are not very common either.
[00:17:38] So the cultural factor must
[00:17:41] also be taken into account. Then there are the theological reasons, indeed, what
[00:17:45] Florence mentioned is quite classic. Well, we can also evoke
[00:17:49] what Constance said earlier, that the church is a woman. We can bring
[00:17:53] up many elements. Well, on this
[00:17:57] point, perhaps everything is open to discussion. The fact that obviously the
[00:18:01] apostles were men is a historical fact and it's a cultural fact too. In the
[00:18:05] situation of Israel at the time, it's hard to imagine
[00:18:08] a completely mixed assembly following Christ
[00:18:12] with parity. On the other hand, it's true, we find figures like Mary Magdalene who are
[00:18:16] extremely interesting and who should give us pause for thought.
[00:18:19] So the debate is open, I mean, the
[00:18:23] theological debate is open, but when we see that the simple
[00:18:26] question of the female diaconate was
[00:18:30] withdrawn from the work of the Synod on Synodality
[00:18:34] desired by Pope Francis, begun and continued by
[00:18:37] Pope Leo, we say, "Well, who had it withdrawn? Are there clashing
[00:18:41] currents?" Well, yes, of course, yes, that's for sure. The second
[00:18:45] session of the synod saw
[00:18:48] this theme withdrawn, so that means what it means.
[00:18:52] It's not for now, we're not ready. It's going to
[00:18:55] hit a wall, just like the exception to priestly
[00:18:59] celibacy that Pope Francis wanted
[00:19:02] to initiate for the Amazon region because there's a shortage of
[00:19:05] priests in that very large region. It didn't happen and it was
[00:19:09] a terrible climate at that time.
[00:19:12] Same thing with what explanation behind it, what argument? Well,
[00:19:15] the fear of schism, quite simply, on the one hand, there you go,
[00:19:19] the enemies of tradition
[00:19:22] who claim that doctrine must remain
[00:19:26] unchanged, that the teaching of the church is always the same, that it has to be
[00:19:30] that way because it was that way. Well, these people still
[00:19:34] have influence because the argument is strong, so it's very
[00:19:37] difficult to say, "No, well, as the new Pope,
[00:19:41] I'm going in another direction."
[00:19:44] And Francis makes trial balloons. Once again, I think it's
[00:19:48] useful. I think the church moves in small steps, ultimately, so
[00:19:51] it has like that, just as he has also moved
[00:19:55] things forward on homosexuality with that
[00:19:59] little phrase, "Who am I to judge?" But at the same
[00:20:02] time, the doctrine hasn't changed, the teaching is the same, but people
[00:20:06] live less badly their
[00:20:08] situation. But that's not enough, the texts
[00:20:12] should be in tune with the
[00:20:15] they reconcile, but it's a long process on the scale of
[00:20:21] is lacking, that's what could be lacking today for the church when we talk
[00:20:24] about this recomposition of this church that sees far fewer
[00:20:28] faithful in its fold. I'm leaving aside the catechumens, these adults who turn
[00:20:32] to baptism as adults, but isn't it precisely if there needed
[00:20:35] to be many more faithful in the church's fold, wouldn't
[00:20:39] the church benefit from evolving? I ask you the question, we will address
[00:20:43] it to Florence Gaillard in a moment. Yes, well, for me it's
[00:20:46] not the priority, it's not necessarily a question of
[00:20:50] numbers. Of course, it's nice when there are many, I'm not going to say the
[00:20:53] opposite, but for me what's important is what the church can bring
[00:20:57] to the common discussion of society. If it's only to live to make the community
[00:21:00] bigger, we're very well among ourselves, it's not interesting. If it's to
[00:21:04] say, "Well, what can we say to the current world and how can
[00:21:08] we maintain, as the Pope says in his homily, how can we
[00:21:11] bear witness to a hope, a peace, a reconciliation?" That's what's
[00:21:15] important, and if there are few of us, it's not the... Otherwise,
[00:21:19] the Catholic Church could also have said in Africa to be more numerous, we allow
[00:21:23] polygamy, there you go, and we will have more Catholics because
[00:21:27] it pleases African societies more, but no, it doesn't work like
[00:21:30] that, and fortunately they still don't always go in the
[00:21:34] direction of the desires of the West because that's true
[00:21:37] too, but the center of gravity of Catholicism is in any case shifting, we will come back to that, and that's
[00:21:41] perhaps a component to keep in mind for the church of tomorrow, what it will look like, that's the question I'll ask you
[00:21:44] in a moment. This mass will
[00:21:48] finish, I think, soon, Florence, are
[00:21:51] you still at the Place de la Concorde? There are
[00:21:55] still a few minutes left,
[00:22:05] thanking the Pope for his visit, this visit
[00:22:08] placed under the sign of Notre-Dame. The statue of
[00:22:12] Notre-Dame is on the stage, not too far from Pope Leo, I was going to say the
[00:22:15] Pope Francis, it's Pope Leo
[00:22:18] XIV. The crowd thanks the Pope for
[00:22:22] coming as it's time for goodbyes, since afterwards the Pope will
[00:22:25] go directly to Lourdes, he will be in prayer tonight in Lourdes.
[00:22:29] So, we hear, we listen to the last words, the farewell
[00:22:33] words of Archbishop Laurent Ulrich of Paris.
[00:22:36] Florence, from where you are, did you also spot—this is a
[00:22:40] question we asked earlier—did you spot any French political figures?
[00:22:44] We said that the President of the Republic was not taking part
[00:22:47] in this mass, his wife Brigitte Macron is here, Prime Minister
[00:22:51] Sébastien Lecornu, also a announced personality. Have you seen
[00:22:55] other personalities? Do we also know if they took part in this
[00:22:58] communion? Did they also
[00:23:00] commune?
[00:23:25] And I will answer you very honestly, Nabia, I'm not at all, I'm with the
[00:23:29] youth and the priests, I'm not with the political
[00:23:32] class, so I cannot
[00:23:39] find out at some point, anyway, we know that several
[00:23:43] personalities from the French political class and then candidates for the
[00:23:47] supreme magistracy have announced their
[00:23:50] presence for this mass at Place de la Concorde. Now,
[00:23:54] Nabia, Nabia, Nabia, excuse me, now what's very
[00:23:58] interesting is that generally the—can you hear me? I
[00:24:02] hear you. Generally, the candidates hide
[00:24:04] their,
[00:24:07] hide their religion, their confession, and then all of a sudden
[00:24:10] it's very surprising, there are candidates who reveal
[00:24:14] themselves to be Catholic, meaning that in my opinion, as they understood there was a wave to
[00:24:17] surf until the presidential election. All of a
[00:24:21] sudden, all these people who were secular
[00:24:25] who didn't touch religion and who above all hid their
[00:24:29] affiliation, all of a sudden we discover that they are Catholic or in any case "cat
[00:24:32] friendly," if you'll allow the expression, it's quite astonishing, it's quite
[00:24:36] astonishing. It raises questions a few months before the presidential election. That's the meaning
[00:24:40] of your point.
[00:24:44] Yes, yes, absolutely. That is,
[00:24:47] some claim to be there are several
[00:24:59] electorates saying, "Oh, but religion, why not?" And anyway, I'm at the Pope's mass,
[00:25:02] we can see that it's a subject that is both divisive
[00:25:06] and that we can still try to exploit in a certain
[00:25:09] way, with all these questions around secularism,
[00:25:13] indeed, here in France, the very holding of this
[00:25:16] mass posed questions because it is a moment of
[00:25:20] prayer, a moment of communion, a moment of religious prayer in
[00:25:24] the middle of the street here in
[00:25:26] the capital.
[00:25:30] Absolutely, you see, we're standing up, it's the end, it's the end
[00:25:33] of this mass, the applause and flags are back,
[00:25:37] the banners are back, I think
[00:25:39] the Pope behind me is about to leave the
[00:25:43] chair, and will go to kiss the altar and will descend the
[00:26:27] These are the last minutes of this mass, that's right, yes, it's a Latin
[00:26:30] hymn to the Virgin that
[00:26:48] do we know then if the Sovereign Pontiff will once again
[00:26:52] meet the faithful, those who are perhaps in the front row, or is he supposed
[00:26:56] to leave quickly
[00:26:59] this platform, this Place de la Concorde, because he has his
[00:27:03] agenda that awaits him, he must fly to Lourdes in a little over an
[00:27:07] hour now. Yes, and as he did upon arriving, which was
[00:27:10] planned but he took his time to do it, it would be a
[00:27:14] bit redundant, I think the moment happened,
[00:27:18] the ceremonial was well conducted, in its full
[00:27:23] the descent there of this immense avenue in
[00:27:26] the Popemobile, I don't see him doing that again to finish
[00:27:30] hurriedly because...
[00:27:42] prochaine étape donc ce sera lourde cela fait 20 ans je
[00:27:46] crois dernière visite d'un souverain
[00:27:49] pontif à lourd 18 ans 18 ans oui oui c'est
[00:27:52] ça oui benois 16 c'est le benoix 16 beno 16 à paris est lourde
[00:27:56] are perhaps already projecting ourselves towards the next stage, so it will be
[00:27:59] Lourdes. It's been 20 years, I
[00:28:03] believe, since the last visit of a Sovereign
[00:28:07] Pontiff to Lourdes. 18 years, 18 years, yes, yes, that's
[00:28:10] right. Benedict XVI, it's Benedict XVI. Benedict XVI in Paris and Lourdes.
[00:28:14] Yes, it's also a highlight of this visit, of this visit that
[00:28:32] many, many Indians also come, it's very
[00:28:34] spectacular, the religious dimension. Pardon, François, I still think of
[00:28:37] the viewers who don't necessarily have the references, who are watching us from abroad,
[00:28:41] the revelation. So, indeed,
[00:28:44] there you go, that's it, so Lourdes is a place of apparition
[00:28:48] of the Virgin Mary to a young
[00:28:52] peasant, very very simple, very
[00:28:55] modestly, the most modest of the village of
[00:28:59] Lourdes who had this apparition of Mary, and who for her was
[00:29:02] obviously a source of very strong
[00:29:06] consolation and so on. And
[00:29:10] with a spring of water that
[00:29:13] gushes out, and so Mary says to this
[00:29:17] Bernadette, so this Bernadette Soubirous, to Bernadette that it will be a place where
[00:29:20] people will come, the sick in particular,
[00:29:24] in fact, so she went and told her priest, more or less, well, he finally
[00:29:27] listened to her, well, and then,
[00:29:31] in fact, the crowds started
[00:29:34] to arrive, people started to arrive from the region and then from further afield and so on, and then it
[00:29:38] snowballed, and then, in fact, it came from
[00:29:41] everywhere, and since then, well, that was in 1870, I think,
[00:29:45] uh, it hasn't stopped, it's a center of pilgrimage, a place
[00:29:48] of pilgrimage. A pilgrimage that doesn't empty all
[00:29:52] year round, and again, it's very, the popular side is very, very
[00:29:55] striking, and also the place of suffering people, the
[00:29:59] sick, there you go. And the Pope will repeat these gestures
[00:30:04] the possibility that it's a miracle or simply a healing
[00:30:08] that science can explain. So it's very serious,
[00:30:11] it has assemblies, procedures
[00:30:13] in which even the devil's advocate is
[00:30:17] called, it comes from there, to say, "No, not at all, it's not a miracle,
[00:30:21] it's a healing that can be explained," but no, etc. Then finally, if
[00:30:25] yes, there you go, if he has the number of miracles, one, we
[00:30:29] can become blessed, two, we become a saint, there you go,
[00:30:33] all this "cursus honorum" in the path to sainthood, and it's the same thing
[00:30:36] for Robert Schuman in Metz, whose
[00:30:40] cause for beatification is being investigated by the same
[00:30:44] ministry of the Roman Curia, and it's fascinating. He is already
[00:30:48] venerable, but unlike
[00:30:51] Bernadette Soubirous, he hasn't produced
[00:30:54] a miracle through his intercession, so that's why he's not
[00:30:57] yet beatified, but he's waiting.