FRANCE24 — broadcast 20261012 120000 UTC 428 transcript segments Google Cloud Speech-to-Text API (Chirp) + Gemini 2.5 Flash Non-Thinking Data courtesy of The GDELT Project (https://www.gdeltproject.org/), from the Internet Archive TV News Archive. Machine transcription. Treat it as a searchable index of what was broadcast, not a verbatim quotation record. [00:00:00] You can watch it on France 24 and our social [00:00:09] us on France 24. It's time for our columnists. It's time [00:00:13] for the France 24 club. Hello to both of you, [00:00:16] to all three of you even, because Christophe is waiting for us just above. We will come back [00:00:20] during this half-hour, of course, to this message from Luton addressed at the beginning [00:00:23] of the afternoon to Russia. Vladimir Putin said, "If we are [00:00:26] attacked, we are ready to fight tonight." The words of the general [00:00:39] found at Leipzig [00:00:43] must avoid provoking escalation but must [00:00:46] react to the re-recognition of [00:00:50] Russian hybrid attacks and the threat of [00:00:53] real attacks against NATO territories. Also, [00:00:57] about the celebration last night in the camp of Raphael Glucksmann, [00:01:00] it's now official, he is the candidate of the social-democratic [00:01:04] left after the primary. The MEP was [00:01:07] designated with more than 66 % of the votes, a wide [00:01:10] victory in the first round which surprised even his own [00:01:14] camp. Flore Simon, hello, hello Elisabeth. Indeed, it was a surprise [00:01:18] part remains to be done because he will have to [00:01:21] unite around him. These are 40,000 voters who [00:01:25] elected him for this to represent the [00:01:28] left. So there is still a long way to go. He will have to [00:01:34] demands honesty, appease a political family which is [00:01:35] commitment, quite divided. And [00:01:36] rigor and then Emmanuel Macron inaugurated this morning the 91st World [00:01:39] Automobile Show, an event during which European manufacturers intend to [00:01:43] resist the rampant competition [00:01:46] from Chinese manufacturers. We will find Christophe [00:01:50] there, who is our special correspondent. Christophe, I asked earlier to be behind the wheel of a car, [00:01:53] I think he is behind you. A yellow [00:01:56] chick-yellow [00:01:59] vehicle. A Chinese brand Changan, you probably don't know it, it's [00:02:03] one of the 20 Chinese brands that is exhibited here at the auto show, [00:02:08] mind of Donald Trump, who seems to have many new brands but with [00:02:11] quite impressive technologies, I'll show you that later, here is the vehicle that is being [00:02:14] polished right now, it's perfect for the news, you have the program of the [00:02:18] day, the club, let's go, let's go! [00:02:34] This message to begin with, addressed this early afternoon by [00:02:38] Louton to Moscow. The Supreme Commander of Alliance forces in Europe [00:02:42] spoke from Warsaw, General [00:02:45] Alexius Grinkevic presented his theory of victory on the [00:02:50] of the most prominent figures of best way to defeat Russia in case of attack. [00:02:51] Listen to him. [00:02:55] We have no project, no intention, [00:02:58] no ambition [00:03:04] No one should confuse our defensive posture with [00:03:07] weakness, however, if anyone were reckless enough to [00:03:11] attack us, we would fight and prevent them from achieving their [00:03:14] objectives. [00:03:19] I want to clarify an essential point, I do not believe that a conflict is imminent or [00:03:23] inevitable. [00:03:25] Here we are following live with you, Corp. has [00:03:29] heard this... this message, there is no doubt about the [00:03:32] recipient, Russia, even if at no time is it mentioned. Yes, it was [00:03:36] clearly a firm warning against [00:03:39] Moscow, an approach which he said [00:03:42] was based on deterrence by [00:03:45] prohibition. I don't think a conflict is imminent, but we [00:03:49] must be ready to prohibit a potential attack, [00:03:52] declared Alexus Grenkevic. He highlights [00:03:56] World the superiority of the Atlantic alliance forces, but also [00:04:00] the superiority of the intelligence of the [00:04:03] alliance members. As a reminder, Western intelligence had indeed [00:04:06] spotted the massive influx of Russian troops to [00:04:10] the borders of Ukraine on the [00:04:11] explain it, it's still the line eve of the February 2022 [00:04:14] attack, but no one wanted to believe in such [00:04:18] an attack. The Supreme Commander [00:04:21] of NATO forces in Europe [00:04:24] implies that this horror, this error and this [00:04:27] horror will not happen again. If the [00:04:31] territory of one of the member countries of the alliance is [00:04:34] threatened, he foresees a [00:04:36] the line of non- firm response in case of attack. We will stop the enemy with land, [00:04:40] sea, air, cyber forces before making them [00:04:44] retreat, he said. And if the adversary decides to continue, then [00:04:47] we will destroy everything that supports [00:04:50] the adversary's war effort. He insisted [00:04:53] together a collective dynamic of on unity within NATO, [00:04:56] "the adversary will not divide us," he said. That's a direct [00:05:00] reference to Vladimir Putin's constant attempts to [00:05:04] divide the alliance within itself [00:05:07] as well as the European Union, in order to weaken it. [00:05:11] He also emphasizes the [00:05:14] NATO, "we have no plan beyond the defense of our people and [00:05:17] our territory, but if we are [00:05:20] attacked, we are ready to fight tonight," [00:05:24] he said. So it is a firm speech in the hope of [00:05:28] finding a solution to this resurgence of [00:05:31] hybrid attacks. NATO must [00:05:34] avoid provoking escalation but cannot remain [00:05:38] inactive in the face of the risk of seeing these Russian provocations [00:05:42] intensify, as is already the case. Remember early August [00:05:46] with, for example, this explosive-laden drone that was [00:05:51] Airport in Germany, a member country of the European [00:05:54] Union. So all this, the words spoken against [00:05:58] a backdrop of energy truce, or at least announced as such [00:06:01] yesterday evening by Donald Trump, took everyone by surprise. It's a truce that has not [00:06:05] come into effect. Russia says it will observe [00:06:08] a ceasefire only on election day in Ukraine. That's what the Kremlin [00:06:12] is saying this morning. Ukraine doesn't seem to be aware of the [00:06:15] agreement in question either. Let's listen to Volodymyr Zelensky and we'll talk about it right [00:06:18] after. [00:06:23] Yesterday, we were not surprised to see that at the very moment when the [00:06:26] American president suddenly published a very important [00:06:30] message, claiming to have obtained an energy ceasefire between [00:06:34] Russia and Ukraine, Shahed drones were [00:06:37] flying over our [00:06:38] skies. [00:06:46] We are ready to observe an energy ceasefire if Russia is ready [00:06:50] to do the same. We agree if they do, and [00:06:54] we have already shown that we truly [00:06:56] mean it. [00:07:01] Last night, Russian oil refineries were not burning, [00:07:05] but at midnight, a Russian drone strike targeted [00:07:09] a gas production facility in Ukraine. [00:07:15] Well, Ukraine doesn't seem to be aware of the ceasefire either. Where did this agreement come from? From the [00:07:20] imagined it. You know, the American president sometimes seems to [00:07:24] live in a kind of parallel world where repeating [00:07:27] a lie eventually becomes a reality [00:07:31] in his own eyes. Well, above all, Donald Trump is [00:07:34] guided by domestic political [00:07:38] objectives. Three weeks before the mid-term elections, which promise to be very [00:07:42] difficult for his camp, he wants to show that he is making progress [00:07:46] in a conflict he had promised to resolve in 48 hours, and [00:07:49] above all, he wants to convince his electorate that the [00:07:53] rise in fuel prices is not due to the war he [00:07:57] himself launched in Iran, but that it is entirely due to the [00:08:01] strikes carried out by Ukraine on Russian [00:08:04] refineries. So, because [00:08:07] the announcement of this ceasefire, which can be described as fictitious, came [00:08:10] after Donald Trump also announced [00:08:14] the lifting of sanctions on Russian [00:08:17] diesel. According to experts, this will [00:08:20] not be enough to bring down [00:08:23] prices at the pump, because the volume of diesel that Russia [00:08:27] could put back on the market is [00:08:29] insufficient. Moreover, the Kremlin still prohibits [00:08:33] diesel exports. Donald Trump also [00:08:36] said it was time for Ukraine to get a [00:08:39] new president. All this furiously reminds [00:08:42] us of the altercation he had with Volodymyr Zelensky in the Oval [00:08:46] Office in February 2025, and this once again highlights [00:08:50] Donald Trump's bias in favor of [00:08:53] Russia. His ties with Moscow have been [00:08:56] widely documented. A month ago, he had nevertheless signed [00:09:00] this famous Linzagram law which provides for new sanctions against [00:09:03] Russia and also sanctions against countries that buy [00:09:07] oil from the Russians. So the Americans [00:09:10] have a space. [00:09:13] But for this law to be implemented, Donald Trump [00:09:16] must request it. Apparently he's not ready to [00:09:20] do it. Last point, these announcements by Donald Trump could actually be quite [00:09:23] counterproductive domestically because within the Republican party [00:09:27] there are several elected officials who don't agree at all, [00:09:31] and especially first and foremost his former vice-president [00:09:34] Mike Pence who said last night that the United States should [00:09:38] not offer a lifeline to the Russian war machine, [00:09:41] but rather increase sanctions against [00:09:45] Russia. These are the sanctions that are also being discussed in Europe, [00:09:49] the Europeans who are tightening their ranks and who have announced new [00:09:52] targets for the interests of the Russian power today. Yes, it's the EU foreign [00:09:56] ministers who have formally adopted [00:09:59] new sanctions against more than 1600 [00:10:02] individuals and entities linked to the [00:10:05] war in Ukraine, the Russian [00:10:07] war. Kaja Kallas, the head of European diplomacy, [00:10:11] said that more than half of the targets [00:10:14] of these punitive measures were linked [00:10:18] to the production chain of Russian ballistic missiles, [00:10:21] these missiles that are doing terrible damage to Ukraine. [00:10:25] And she specified that it was the largest extension of the [00:10:31] the war. This morning Emmanuel Macron declared [00:10:34] that we must not give in to the Russian threat, [00:10:38] and normally the French head of state should have Donald Trump [00:10:41] on the phone this afternoon. According to the Financial Times, European [00:10:45] officials received calls all weekend from American [00:10:49] officials with the message [00:10:52] threatening to suspend the provision of American intelligence to [00:10:56] Ukraine and the threat to suspend the program [00:10:59] managed by NATO which allows Europeans to buy [00:11:03] American weapons to then deliver them to Ukraine. And the [00:11:07] Europeans are trying to compensate for the shortage of [00:11:10] American Patriots with their own [00:11:14] anti-aircraft defense systems, which [00:11:16] should not be delivered before next year, and they are also increasingly [00:11:20] taking charge of intelligence. In January, he said that France [00:11:24] now handles two-thirds of Ukrainian [00:11:27] intelligence. The Europeans' hope is, [00:11:30] of course, that the Republican Party will suffer a [00:11:34] defeat in the upcoming mid-term elections [00:11:37] so that America can once again [00:11:40] re-engage in Ukraine, which is obviously possible. We will follow that [00:11:44] with great attention next [00:11:47] November 3rd, from one election to another, [00:11:50] we are also preparing in France, hello Flor Simon, we are [00:11:54] talking about this primary which was indeed a first [00:11:57] step on the left, it is now official Raphael Glucksmann became [00:12:01] last night the candidate of the social democratic left after the [00:12:05] primary, the European deputy was designated with more than 66 [00:12:08] % of the votes, it is a large victory in the first round which [00:12:12] surprised even his own camp last night. The portrait of Raphael [00:12:16] Glucksmann to begin with, we'll come back to it right [00:12:17] after. [00:12:22] He enters his first presidential race. He entered [00:12:43] the international political scene in 2009 by becoming [00:12:46] an advisor to the liberal Georgian president Mikheil [00:12:49] Saakashvili, a position he held until [00:12:52] 2013. [00:12:55] Political experience in France also on the right with the [00:12:58] Liberal Alternative party. Raphaël Glucksmann shifted to the [00:13:02] left and in 2019, he was elected [00:13:04] deputy in the European elections with the Public Place movement which he [00:13:08] co-founded a year earlier. Re-elected in [00:13:11] 2024, he becomes one [00:13:15] the moderate left in Brussels. Yesterday, [00:13:18] hatred won in France and in Europe, [00:13:22] so it's time today. [00:13:43] He is criticized by the left, notably by Jean-Luc [00:13:47] Mélenchon, with whom he refuses any [00:13:49] alliance. There will be no agreement with the Francisme, but there will be an [00:13:53] agreement with the democratic left. with the republican left and we [00:13:57] are going to win the presidential election, I am absolutely [00:14:00] convinced of it. Raphaël Glucksmann wants to be the candidate of the break [00:14:04] with what he calls the hegemony of Jean-Luc Mélenchon over the French [00:14:07] left and calls for the unity of forces to fight against what he [00:14:11] calls his eternal enemy, the far right. [00:14:14] So, Glucksmann's camp was celebrating last night, but [00:14:18] his camp was still quite surprised by [00:14:22] the scale of the victory, this score, how can [00:14:25] we explain it today? Yes, indeed, quite surprised, I think he didn't expect such a score. [00:14:29] Elected in the first round with a large majority of [00:14:33] 66%. Well, we [00:14:36] of non-alliance with the insubordinates that won [00:14:40] last night, it was actually the real stake of this primary since we saw during [00:14:44] the debates there were three that finally they were more or [00:14:47] less in agreement on the rest, except Gaza [00:14:50] and naming the genocide in Gaza or not, but it's true that [00:14:54] where... there were clashes was on these possible [00:14:58] alliances with LFI, so it's [00:15:01] alliance that won last night and this morning Raphael Glucksmann, [00:15:05] now the official candidate for the [00:15:08] left, reiterated that there will be no alliance with [00:15:11] LFI. Let's listen to him on France Inter. So [00:15:15] we will create [00:15:18] the democratic left and there will be no, it's decided [00:15:22] Mr. Duhamel, it's over, no alliance with. [00:15:32] people who came to participate in this primary, our political [00:15:35] space no longer lives. [00:15:37] no longer lives in uncertainty, no longer lives in [00:15:40] uncertainty and that was the basis, he says it [00:15:44] himself, he had yesterday evening a [00:15:46] clarification, well we can also recognize that he finally managed to [00:15:50] avoid the arrows launched by his opponents in this [00:15:53] primary, starting with Ségolène Royal who nevertheless said that [00:15:57] he was the intern of this primary, who also said that he [00:16:01] was going to ally with the center, that with him it was [00:16:04] a hold-up on the PS, Olivier Faure a bit in the same [00:16:08] line but less frontal still, [00:16:11] so there you go. And also what we need to see, Elisabeth, is that in the polls, in the [00:16:14] voting intentions, and this perhaps influenced [00:16:17] those who elected him last night, is that Raphaël Glucksmann [00:16:21] is the only one above 10%. He is polled and tested [00:16:25] between 10 and 13% according to the polls, whereas Olivier Faure, whom we see on [00:16:28] screen, is rather around 5%. [00:16:32] Olivier Faure, by the way, has been the first secretary of the Socialist Party for 8 years. For [00:16:35] him, it was a real setback, he only got 14%, so his [00:16:39] line, Olivier Faure's line, which was that of an alliance with [00:16:43] the insubordinates for the legislative elections, was clearly put in the minority. [00:16:47] So it's a bit of a disavowal for the first secretary of the [00:16:51] PS. Regarding the other candidates, Ségolène Royal, Jérôme [00:16:54] Guedj and Emmanuel Morel, they are all below 10%. We see them all [00:16:58] posing for a selfie and applauding Raphaël Glucksmann. [00:17:01] Well, we remember the debates that happened just before, we [00:17:05] still say that the hardest part remains to come. The objective now will [00:17:09] be to unite and appease a party that is still [00:17:13] marked by divisions. Yes, indeed, Raphaël Glucksmann said it, [00:17:16] "to unite is my first responsibility." First, he will have to unite the [00:17:19] socialists because even if we see this selfie with everyone on [00:17:23] stage and everyone finally said last night that they would [00:17:27] support the winner, we have also seen in the past that even [00:17:31] if there was on paper a [00:17:35] support for the winner, the law was not always [00:17:38] followed. We think of 2017 with Benoît Hamon, 2022 with [00:17:42] Anne Hidalgo. So the first challenge is for this [00:17:45] socialist family to follow him. Then he will have to [00:17:48] broaden Elizabeth Raphaël Glucksmann, he is, because the socialists, just a [00:17:52] parenthesis, they have a bitter taste, for the first [00:17:55] time in history, there will be no PS-stamped candidate [00:17:59] in a presidential election since Raphaël Glucksmann is president of Place [00:18:02] Publique. The second challenge will be to broaden the [00:18:06] left further. So the environmentalists, for [00:18:09] example, who are divided between [00:18:12] finally allying with the insubordinates or the [00:18:15] socialists. Last night Marine Tondelier, the leader of the Greens, tweeted [00:18:19] saying that it was the choice of withdrawal, so you see it's not necessarily [00:18:22] very engaging. And then he also has to win back the [00:18:26] left-wing voters who voted for Macron in 2022. There too, he [00:18:30] has this challenge for Raphaël Glucksmann. We're just going to [00:18:33] listen to Michel Barnier. Now he's a Republican, an LR deputy, former [00:18:37] prime minister, it's a long way off, but he welcomes the return of the left-right [00:18:41] divide. We listen to him. It's the [00:18:44] end of "at the same time", we are finding this [00:18:47] left-right divide that Mr. Macron wanted to eliminate for 10 years, [00:18:50] patiently, methodically, and which gave this incredible power to the [00:18:54] extremes of the right and the left. We must find a left-right [00:18:58] divide with a social-democratic left, it is reconstituting itself and [00:19:02] a republican right, that's what we are doing with Bruno Retailleau. [00:19:06] So, and then another challenge for now, the first in the lead on the left is [00:19:09] Jean-Luc Mélenchon. Yesterday in Clermont-Ferrand, he gathered more than [00:19:13] 10,000 people and Jean-Luc Mélenchon wants to appear as the useful [00:19:16] vote on the left, so here too Raphaël Glucksmann will have to make [00:19:19] proposals because mere opposition to LFI will not be enough to gather [00:19:23] millions of votes. Thank you very much Flore for the [00:19:26] analysis. Last sequence of this club which will be [00:19:30] done remotely, we are heading to the 91st [00:19:34] Automobile Show, I sold you something anti. [00:19:38] Christophe Dancette who will be driving a [00:19:42] vehicle, we will find Christophe who is our special correspondent [00:19:45] at this event which was inaugurated this morning by the head of state Emmanuel [00:19:49] Macron, an event during which European manufacturers intend to [00:19:52] resist the rampant competition from Chinese [00:19:56] manufacturers. The head of state focused this morning on three [00:20:00] priorities: the electrification of vehicles, European [00:20:04] preference, and of course necessarily [00:20:06] innovation, particularly on autonomous [00:20:09] vehicles. Christophe Dencette is therefore [00:20:12] directly following this auto show for us. Christophe, hello. [00:20:16] I think the connection is re-established. The show was inaugurated by the [00:20:20] president in person, we just saw him on [00:20:22] screen. [00:20:24] Yes, the president was there this morning for his last auto show, he who had been [00:20:28] faithful to every edition since his arrival at the [00:20:32] Élysée in 2017. A show that has nevertheless [00:20:35] experienced various turbulences since the beginning, since his first [00:20:39] mandate, as there was the Covid crisis and a 2020 edition canceled [00:20:43] and the 2022 edition held in a small [00:20:46] format. The 2026 edition is really the return to the large [00:20:50] format with 60 manufacturers present, [00:20:53] obviously the Europeans, most of the big ones are [00:20:57] there, Volkswagen, Mercedes for the Germans, and then [00:21:00] also Renault and Stellantis for the French. [00:21:03] Stellantis presented this morning what is perhaps the star of [00:21:07] this show, which is the 2CV, you know, the "deuche", the favorite cars [00:21:11] of collectors, which is making a new 2026 [00:21:15] or rather 2028 version, I was going to say, since the goal is to [00:21:18] sell it from 2028 at 15,000 [00:21:22] euros. So that's the "deuche guinguette" we saw behind [00:21:26] you this morning. Now you're standing in front of a completely different [00:21:29] vehicle, Christophe. You're at the stand of a Chinese [00:21:33] manufacturer. Yes, [00:21:36] Chinese, it's a Changan. [00:21:39] You may not know this brand [00:21:43] because many Chinese [00:21:46] brands are here, 20 in total. Some of them we know, [00:21:50] BYD or Xpeng, which are starting to drive on our [00:21:54] roads here in France, but this one is [00:21:58] perhaps one of the novelties and I found it quite interesting, I'm going to [00:22:01] go inside, you'll see it's a jewel of technology [00:22:05] like most of these 20 Chinese manufacturers [00:22:08] who are here at Porte de [00:22:11] Versailles. Today it's 4% of sales in [00:22:14] Europe of these Chinese cars. In 4 years it could be 16%. [00:22:18] So a strong arrival. They represent today a third of [00:22:21] this show. So you've taken your place aboard this [00:22:25] vehicle, you're talking about hybrids, but the big [00:22:29] news this year remains [00:22:31] electric. [00:22:34] Yes, electric. So despite the agreements [00:22:37] with the European Union regarding [00:22:41] the desire to sell fewer hybrids and fewer plug-in hybrids in [00:22:45] Europe in the coming years, in reality, these Chinese manufacturers are arriving [00:22:49] in force and their ambition is intact. We see here this [00:22:52] vehicle, almost all the vehicles at this show are [00:22:55] electric. I saw very, very few thermal [00:22:59] models. Electric and perhaps even [00:23:02] autonomous. Some Chinese brands present autonomous vehicles, others [00:23:06] American also offer to test for the first time in the streets of [00:23:10] Paris, you know that autonomous vehicles are quite [00:23:14] well known in the United States, in Asia too, in [00:23:17] France we know them, we don't see them circulating much yet. Circulating in the streets of [00:23:20] Paris, this is a first for this edition of the show [00:23:24] of the auto show here at Porte de Versailles and besides in a few minutes I will [00:23:28] go and test an autonomous car but I will tell you more in a [00:23:31] report that I will broadcast tonight on the air but then [00:23:35] be careful, Flore Simon, rightly so, we don't do duplexes at the [00:23:39] wheel, apparently Christophe Dancette. [00:23:42] Yes, especially since this isn't an autonomous car, but maybe I could do it for [00:23:46] an autonomous car. We don't have a duplex planned together, but it's true that [00:23:50] even in an autonomous car, you have to keep your hands on the wheel [00:23:53] and keep looking ahead, with both hands on the wheel. [00:23:57] Thank you very much Christophe who tests everything for us, that's perfect, [00:24:00] thank you for following us obviously, this is the end of this club, thank you girls, thank you to [00:24:04] both of you for staying with us, we'll be back in a few moments for your [00:24:08] appointment behind the image, we're obviously going to come back to the return of [00:24:11] Sophie Anno, it was a few days ago, a lot to tell you about this [00:24:15] trip into space, it will be with Sylvain Rosseau, I'll see you right [00:24:18] away. [00:24:29] dowry still weighs on women, money, [00:24:32] jewelry, car, to marry their daughters, parents must [00:24:35] comply with the demands of the in-laws, from the start, the groom and his [00:24:39] family set their conditions, you will have to do this, you will have to give [00:24:42] that, while the marriage market is [00:24:45] flourishing, without a dowry, the marriage can turn into a tragedy, [00:24:49] and when... these demands are not met, women often say [00:24:52] they are victims of physical violence, harassment, [00:24:56] violence, sometimes death, to change [00:24:59] things, some refuse the established order, we [00:25:02] also try to make families understand that this practice is [00:25:05] bad, things change [00:25:08] slowly but [00:25:09] surely, [00:25:12] a report to watch on France [00:25:15] 24. [00:30:08] you're joining us, welcome to your appointment behind the image, we're going to take the time, [00:30:12] as every day, to decipher the news from a photo that [00:30:16] makes sense, that speaks for itself. Hello, Sylvain Rousseau, let's look at the picture right away that you [00:30:19] selected for us. I have a feeling that you're going to talk to us [00:30:23] about space there and exactly, this photo was [00:30:26] taken just after the Crew Dragon capsule, in which Sophie Adno returned [00:30:30] to Earth, so the capsule was hoisted onto the boat. The SpaceX teams took [00:30:33] the astronaut, in this case Sophie Adno, out of this [00:30:37] capsule, and that's when the photo was taken. So why did [00:30:41] I hesitate a lot before choosing this photo? We could have taken a photo where we [00:30:44] see her trying to walk, or where we see her waving, but this photo seemed more interesting to [00:30:48] me, first because, indeed, it's nothing spectacular, finally, when we look at it like [00:30:51] that, in a zig-zag, it's a bit the classic photo of the returns from the [00:30:55] space station, of each astronaut, but I also like the light above the Pacific that gives a...