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20261105 093000 UTC
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[00:00:00] perhaps not, but in peaceful demonstrations
[00:00:02] and with a senatorial pace,
[00:00:05] yes, speaking of youth and Louis
[00:00:08] be the minister of Le Grand, that's where someone who meant a lot in your life, in the lives of many
[00:00:11] Senegalese, but not only, spent a few years, it's Léopold
[00:00:15] Sédar Senghor, the first president of Senegal who
[00:00:18] met Césaire, with whom he would found the
[00:00:22] Négritude movement in the 1930s, it's archive
[00:00:24] time.
[00:00:31] We're going to listen to Senghor in December
[00:00:33] 1969,
[00:00:36] Latin civilization, and that's why Négritude,
[00:00:39] it's the
[00:00:43] remember that as it has been said black world, it's black civilization, it's all
[00:00:45] the values of civilization of the black
[00:00:47] world, uh, from this point of
[00:00:50] view, Anglo-Saxons are right
[00:00:54] to root themselves in Anglo-Saxon
[00:00:56] culture
[00:00:59] and the... Latins in Latin culture, in
[00:01:02] Latinity, and the Slavs, the Russians, in
[00:01:06] Slavitude, in Slavic culture, and that's why, being
[00:01:09] black people, we must root ourselves in
[00:01:11] Négritude,
[00:01:18] this is the objective aspect of the problem, there is
[00:01:21] also the subjective aspect, it's not
[00:01:25] about
[00:01:27] in this second half of the 20th century, with the
[00:01:30] totalization and the socialization of the
[00:01:33] world, it's not
[00:01:36] picked up outside about living like our ancestors lived,
[00:01:38] it's about living our
[00:01:41] Négritude today,
[00:01:44] isn't it, in this second part of the 20th
[00:01:47] century, it's about
[00:01:52] challenges, artificial challenges, immigration therefore rooting ourselves in our own values of civilization, opening ourselves to
[00:01:54] complementary values, to modernity, to
[00:01:58] the spirit of... nationalism,
[00:02:01] and therefore to advocate for intuitive reason, we are not against
[00:02:05] discursive reason, and the more we are rooted
[00:02:09] in Négritude, the more we must make Descartes
[00:02:12] our breviary, that's
[00:02:16] for this archive from 1969, Léopold Sédar Senghor,
[00:02:19] Négritude, this movement
[00:02:21] never despair of founded in reaction to colonialism and cultural
[00:02:24] assimilation, you who are the philosopher of
[00:02:27] universalism, what place does this
[00:02:31] Négritude have in universalism?
[00:02:33] So we will pay attention to two words he also pronounced in this
[00:02:37] excerpt, uh totalization and
[00:02:40] from the socialization, and uh this tells us one thing,
[00:02:43] that Négritude, despite its name, is not
[00:02:47] confinement in a particularism, obviously,
[00:02:50] Césaire himself, the Nardal sisters before
[00:02:53] them, uh the Hong Kong Tramas
[00:02:56] defended what he called in this excerpt the values of civilization of the
[00:03:00] black world, because these values had to be affirmed in the face of colonial
[00:03:03] negation, colonial negation consisting in saying that there was no
[00:03:07] black civilization, that Africa was a continent from this point
[00:03:10] of view, confined in the dark mantle of
[00:03:13] night, as the philosopher Hegel said, this
[00:03:16] affirmation was necessary, but fundamentally Senghor's true thought
[00:03:21] is who is uh the was the thought that we read in these two words, the
[00:03:24] socialization of the world, the
[00:03:26] totalization, and there he is thinking, I'm
[00:03:30] sure, at that moment, of the thought of Father Teilhard de Chardin, who spoke of
[00:03:34] planetization, we must have a thought of
[00:03:37] today of totality, and moreover, in this regard, I'll tell you one
[00:03:41] thing, I found a few years ago a
[00:03:44] letter from Senghor addressed to President Kennedy, a
[00:03:48] letter in which he then called President Kennedy at that time, it was in the early
[00:03:51] 60s, uh obviously since Kennedy and me just after,
[00:03:55] uh uh he called my dear great friend and he invited him
[00:03:58] to
[00:04:02] Teilhard de Chardin in the way Teilhard de Chardin thought that we needed
[00:04:06] we say in the language of today a planetary thought of the convergence
[00:04:09] of cultures but also of the safeguarding of our planet, a
[00:04:12] very current thought, and he told him: "It is our responsibility as heads
[00:04:16] of state to bring about the world of this
[00:04:19] planetization," it was still something
[00:04:22] extraordinary, he doesn't say if Kennedy read Teilhard de
[00:04:25] Chardin, well, we don't have Kennedy's answer, to the letter
[00:04:29] of... about Senghor and that brings us back to the subject of your book,
[00:04:33] hospitality, affirming
[00:04:35] humanity, which we are now coming to, by recalling
[00:04:39] precisely, and you do so in the book, the expression that
[00:04:42] go to the confines of was his, when he gave speeches to the nation, Senghor, he said
[00:04:45] Senegalese, Senegalese, dear foreign guests who
[00:04:49] lived among us, that was the beginning of all his interventions when he
[00:04:52] addressed the Senegalese on television in particular, why is this dear
[00:04:57] crisis there is is the crisis of foreign guest who lived among us a phrase that... works
[00:05:00] for you? Listen, it struck me when I discovered that it was not
[00:05:03] the universal rule to also greet other foreigners
[00:05:07] when giving speeches to the nation when one was president of
[00:05:11] the republic or prime minister. The president says: my dear
[00:05:14] compatriots, my dear compatriots, in the United States,
[00:05:17] the president says "my fellow Americans,
[00:05:20] Americans, Americans," and there, greeting the other foreigners
[00:05:23] who live among us, it was truly in Saintor's philosophy,
[00:05:26] he makes a Senegalese notion,
[00:05:30] the Senegalese Wolof word for
[00:05:33] hospitality, teranga, a
[00:05:35] true,
[00:05:38] a kind of emblem of the country, and so he was
[00:05:41] in the logic of this hospitality for him
[00:05:44] to always ensure to also greet the other foreigners
[00:05:48] who live among us. Teranga Wolof
[00:05:51] indeed, finally hospitality is Teranga Wolof,
[00:05:54] hence the name of the national football team,
[00:05:57] it's important for you to include it in life too, it's not just philosophy, the Lions of
[00:06:01] Teranga, it's about this hospitality that your
[00:06:04] book talks about, some would say it's a bit bland today to
[00:06:08] talk about hospitality, you see it as a kind of...
[00:06:12] quote, you say you wrote these words with a sense of alarm and
[00:06:15] urgency because the world is not really going for the better,
[00:06:19] of course, and we must rediscover the weight and and
[00:06:23] all the light that words like hospitality, humanism,
[00:06:26] universal carry, these are not big words, well, listen, these are
[00:06:29] big words in the sense precisely of this collection in
[00:06:33] which we want authors to write
[00:06:36] about a particular word, so the notion of big words seems
[00:06:40] important here and... these notions,
[00:06:43] we must, we must rethink them
[00:06:46] today, for today, because it is
[00:06:49] the situation we are experiencing that demands it, the situation we are
[00:06:52] experiencing today demands of us that we be one and the same
[00:06:56] humanity to respond to the challenges that are ours,
[00:06:59] environmental challenges, health
[00:07:04] intelligence challenges that I spoke of earlier, these are all challenges
[00:07:08] that require that words like
[00:07:11] hospitality, words like humanism, humanity,
[00:07:14] the first of all universals, and words like universal be
[00:07:18] fully charged with their meaning, and yet the
[00:07:22] way the world is going is quite the opposite,
[00:07:25] inhospitality is the rule, in the north as in the south, we
[00:07:28] evoked earlier the United States of Donald Trump, much has been said these days
[00:07:32] again about this xenophobic line
[00:07:35] led by this anti-immigration police Ice that causes
[00:07:38] many deaths in the United States, also in the south, you mention it in your
[00:07:41] book. We see this movement in South Africa that is called March and March,
[00:07:45] South Africans who oppose the arrival of people from the
[00:07:48] continent,
[00:07:51] we see that this is not the movement that we are all
[00:07:54] taking together. Yes, I would even add to the examples you evoke,
[00:07:58] the example of my own country, in Senegal, today, we
[00:08:01] find in the discussions that are taking
[00:08:04] place the discussion of a form of
[00:08:07] xenophobia that has emerged towards
[00:08:11] our brothers. uh Guineans who live
[00:08:14] among us uh in
[00:08:17] Senegal, I think that will remain marginal,
[00:08:21] that ultimately teranga will triumph,
[00:08:24] but the mere fact that the question arose is an
[00:08:28] indication, so it's true that there is this movement
[00:08:31] today of... which is fundamentally one of the consequences of
[00:08:34] identitarianisms, identitarianisms, ethnonationalisms, the
[00:08:38] fragmentation that uh uh
[00:08:41] identities create in... the world uh
[00:08:44] had have quite naturally as a consequence a
[00:08:48] closing, a certain form of xenophobia, and moreover I
[00:08:51] begin my book about
[00:08:55] the campaign that was waged against
[00:08:58] empathy, it's hard to imagine that we could live in a world
[00:09:02] where books are written against empathy, because precisely
[00:09:05] empathy, there again a great word, empathy, it's still a
[00:09:09] fundamental human value, how can one write against empathy?
[00:09:12] That's why I think we must affirm
[00:09:15] concepts like hospitality that are
[00:09:19] quite naturally political, empathy is to be moved
[00:09:23] to pity, says Rousseau, you remind us in the book, and
[00:09:26] indeed, to come back to the United States, you explain that in the
[00:09:29] conservative, even ultra-conservative camp, this empathy
[00:09:32] is highly criticized because the propensity to open up to others could lead to
[00:09:36] guilty solicitude, a suicidal civilizational
[00:09:40] empathy, said Elon. Elon Musk said, well,
[00:09:43] there you go, uh indeed he wrote, moreover,
[00:09:47] to
[00:09:49] celebrate a book that was quietly titled
[00:09:53] suicidal empathy, the idea that empathy is suicidal, so
[00:09:56] suicide of whom? Of Western civilization, the idea that something
[00:09:59] called Western civilization risks
[00:10:02] dying, uh dying of kindness was the
[00:10:06] subtitle of this book, so dying of benevolence by being
[00:10:10] too, a civilization too benevolent. towards others, and besides
[00:10:13] empathy would be too feminine a virtue to be applicable to
[00:10:16] an entire society which would have, it was said that
[00:10:20] empathy was a feminization of society, and so all this is
[00:10:24] ethno-nationalist. These identitarianisms also go with
[00:10:27] a virilism that is affirming itself today, whose
[00:10:31] figure, in essence, can
[00:10:33] war, as he prefers to call himself rather than
[00:10:37] minister of defense in the United States, who was
[00:10:40] indeed re-baptized his ministry in the United States. I would like us
[00:10:44] to look at another archive, it's a photo that went around the world, we are
[00:10:47] in 2015,
[00:10:51] it was a small Syrian child found dead on a Turkish beach.
[00:10:55] His name was Aylan Kurdi, Aylan Kurdi, it's this photo,
[00:10:58] uh, or rather it's the photo just before where his face
[00:11:02] was in the sand, this child, at the time, I don't think
[00:11:06] I'm wrong in saying that this photo and the story of this little
[00:11:10] Syrian had aroused worldwide empathy, what
[00:11:13] remains, Sulaiman Bashir Dian, of this empathy that we all felt
[00:11:16] so much, but what remains is this idea that
[00:11:20] empathy is natural to
[00:11:23] humans because in... and during that time, when we spoke of a migratory crisis,
[00:11:27] when we saw, we saw, in fact, we imagined hordes of Syrians
[00:11:31] pouring into Europe, and then all
[00:11:34] of a sudden we realize that it's a child who
[00:11:37] drowned, so we can imagine a lot of things, we can imagine that the hand that held
[00:11:41] him, his father's hand perhaps, let go at some point,
[00:11:45] that they both drowned, we could imagine all sorts of human
[00:11:48] stories around the face of this child, you know, the
[00:11:51] philosopher Emmanuel Levinas says, uh
[00:11:55] very strongly and beautifully, that uh the
[00:11:58] face of the other commands hospitality from me, commands
[00:12:02] empathy from me, and well, the face of this child
[00:12:06] commanded empathy from the whole world, what
[00:12:09] this tells us is that we can have the impression that
[00:12:12] ethno-nationalism triumphs today, that we must
[00:12:15] despair of the world as it is, that this fragmentation we experience
[00:12:19] naturally, that man is a wolf to man, to quote this
[00:12:23] old saying, but in reality...
[00:12:25] what this story shows us is that empathy is never very far away,
[00:12:28] and when we see, moreover, today, we are, we spoke, we began our
[00:12:32] conversation about what happened in the United States, there is a kind of
[00:12:36] retreat, it seems to me, uh this
[00:12:40] anti-empathy of this culture of anti-empathy
[00:12:43] today, and so we must
[00:12:46] humanity, of magnificent humanity, as Pope
[00:12:49] Leo called it, you say retreat, it
[00:12:53] still has waves and... you know better than I do, you know the meaning of
[00:12:57] words, if we look at the public debate here in France, how do you
[00:13:00] explain that expressions inherited
[00:13:05] far right, from the extreme far right, like the great replacement,
[00:13:09] you spoke earlier of those who believed in migratory submersion, have become
[00:13:13] so entrenched in public debate that a minister of the current government,
[00:13:16] a minister delegate for the fight against discrimination, not to name her,
[00:13:20] considers that this theory of the great replacement cannot be called a
[00:13:24] racist theory, the worst thing
[00:13:27] indeed is when republican
[00:13:31] parties, which are not in principle from
[00:13:34] that world, whose culture it is not, start to
[00:13:38] also try to to to to
[00:13:41] pursue this vocabulary and this language, we do indeed have an
[00:13:45] absolutely terrifying language, it's like we've gone back to 1930 with
[00:13:49] a resurgence, so the waves, to use the
[00:13:51] metaphor, it comes and goes, obviously, and...
[00:13:55] and so we can have the feeling of regression, we can have the feeling that we are back in the
[00:13:59] 30s, there is indeed a resurgence
[00:14:02] anti-Semitism, there are absolutely uninhibited
[00:14:06] racisms, there was a racist
[00:14:08] attack, a racist attack, someone was
[00:14:12] killed simply because he had black skin, the idea that if
[00:14:16] you walk today in the streets of Paris you can get shot
[00:14:19] because you are black is a terrifying
[00:14:23] idea, well... uh this is the world in
[00:14:27] which indeed we must not deny that we are
[00:14:30] uh this vocabulary is establishing itself, "great replacement"
[00:14:34] at the beginning, we said, "but what is that?" and then today quietly this
[00:14:38] expression has entered the language not only of the extreme
[00:14:41] right who speak this language perfectly, it's their
[00:14:44] natural language, whatever one says about their de-demonization,
[00:14:48] something is inscribed in the very DNA of these parties and
[00:14:52] uh they cannot help but have these. and these forms of
[00:14:55] regurgitation of a language that is theirs, but then when
[00:14:59] this language spreads beyond the extreme right
[00:15:03] to penetrate the center right and
[00:15:07] the left, that's when indeed we must
[00:15:09] worry, and are we not helpless,
[00:15:13] we are never helpless, and
[00:15:17] Césaire, whom you evoked earlier, said that the worst
[00:15:22] initiative, when we settle into... that there is
[00:15:25] nothing to be done, that there is no initiative to take, that
[00:15:29] there is not this resilience in us
[00:15:33] which is precisely based on our
[00:15:36] capacity. uh for empathy, for solidarity,
[00:15:40] for hospitality, that's where the crisis has truly
[00:15:43] set in, so we must not let it set in our heads, it is already in the
[00:15:47] world, uh, let's avoid letting the crisis set in our
[00:15:50] in our capacity for initiative,
[00:15:53] moreover there is something to do, you go further, you say that
[00:15:56] anti-empathy,
[00:15:58] anti-universalism, it is there, separatism which
[00:16:02] is also a perverted expression used
[00:16:05] uh in all sauces in the public debate. Oh yes
[00:16:08] yes, it is there, it is present indeed and we see it
[00:16:12] uh we see the terrifying
[00:16:15] manifestations because we must
[00:16:20] racism kills but
[00:16:23] again, furthermore there are always these reactions
[00:16:27] I insist on the reactions that were those of
[00:16:30] Minnesota, the state of Minnesota and the city of Minneapolis in
[00:16:34] particular, uh faced with the turn
[00:16:37] that the anti-migrant policies in
[00:16:41] the United States were taking because even if the
[00:16:44] figures indicated that uh a large majority of the
[00:16:48] population was for the closing of borders
[00:16:51] and uh anti-immigration measures,
[00:16:54] the idea that this also means that a
[00:16:58] masked militia of
[00:17:01] agents can come and pick up my
[00:17:04] neighbor or prevent my neighbor from taking his children to school
[00:17:08] because the children themselves are American but he himself can perfectly well be
[00:17:13] school and then leave the children
[00:17:16] stranded and so on, and that it was necessary to have a
[00:17:19] neighborhood policy, that it was
[00:17:22] necessary to defend one's neighbor and they invented the word
[00:17:26] "neighboring," neighbor like we could, it's
[00:17:29] almost the Senegalese teranga, it's the Senegalese teranga,
[00:17:32] "neighboring" is an excellent translation of teranga, and
[00:17:36] moreover and moreover. among the signs
[00:17:40] that were signs that hailed the American elections there, I
[00:17:44] saw a sign that said "love thy neighbor," love your... so
[00:17:47] in English, "neighbor" is both neighbor and fellow human being,
[00:17:51] it's untranslatable in French, you spoke of Minneapolis, moreover
[00:17:55] some of the voters went to pay tribute to the
[00:17:59] two people who were killed by this anti-immigration
[00:18:02] police ICE in the United States, since we are in the United States,
[00:18:06] that's where we will end this interview. It's time for the words (w o
[00:18:09] r d s)
[00:18:14] and these words are what you chose to quote in your book, uh Sulaiman
[00:18:18] Bashlian, these are words that are inscribed
[00:18:21] uh on the pedestal of the Statue of Liberty, uh tell
[00:18:25] us, explain to us and read them to us please. Listen I will read them to you with great pleasure
[00:18:29] then in their French translation, uh these words
[00:18:32] give this: give me your tired, your
[00:18:35] poor, your... huddled masses yearning to
[00:18:39] breathe free, the wretched refuse of your
[00:18:42] teeming shore, send them to
[00:18:45] me, the homeless, tempest-tost,
[00:18:48] I lift my lamp beside the golden
[00:18:52] door, a magnificent poem by Emma
[00:18:55] Lazarus who
[00:18:58] the poem inscribed uh
[00:19:02] on the on the Statue of
[00:19:05] Liberty in New York. So in New York and this
[00:19:09] statue of Liberty made into a woman
[00:19:13] holding this lantern, this
[00:19:16] torch, this light and uh
[00:19:19] welcoming, opening her arms to those who
[00:19:22] flee all kinds of of of
[00:19:25] inhospitality, precisely, that is
[00:19:28] uh the normal face of America, that
[00:19:32] is the promise of America and that is the promise of all human
[00:19:35] cultures, the idea that if you come to me
[00:19:38] vulnerable, know that you are arriving home, as
[00:19:43] hospitality, you are home here, make yourself at home, and
[00:19:47] that is the meaning finally that
[00:19:51] collects this poem, this magnificent poem, which is a poem
[00:19:54] of openness, of solidarity, of
[00:19:56] neighboring and of teranga, and that makes you and
[00:20:00] those who think with you, people who are
[00:20:04] not preachers in the wilderness, so there you
[00:20:08] go, it's good that you use the word "preacher", I'm sure that when
[00:20:12] we talk a little bit about these things, it has a little bit of
[00:20:15] a preachy tone, but we
[00:20:19] must have a preachy tone, it's not for nothing that
[00:20:22] the Pope has taken the lead in the
[00:20:25] welcoming movement which reminds us of the value of solidarity, the
[00:20:29] value of hospitality, and it's not for nothing either, you know the
[00:20:33] subtitle of my book is almost a quote from Jean Jaurès, it's not for...
[00:20:37] even though Jean Jaurès identified
[00:20:40] socialism with the mystical dreams of
[00:20:44] tender souls, imagine that, the definition, a
[00:20:47] magnificent definition of socialism. that perhaps it should be
[00:20:51] rebuilt today, that makes me think, to conclude, of the Talarico
[00:20:54] campaign in the United States, which precisely, he, the man of faith, campaigns
[00:20:58] on virtues that are really the antithesis of what one might
[00:21:01] think should be imposed on all of us, he campaigns on love in particular,
[00:21:05] who today could have thought that an electoral campaign based on love
[00:21:09] could be successful? Absolutely, how true,
[00:21:13] absolutely true that these words, these simple
[00:21:16] words love, solidarity, hospitality are. political
[00:21:20] slogans today because that's the world we live in, thank you
[00:21:23] very much for coming to say it on this set, Suleiman
[00:21:27] Bashir Diane, and so this book in the collection of big words from
[00:21:31] autrement editions, hospitality, affirming humanity, well, there you have it, we see it in
[00:21:34] duplicate and for those who want to listen to you and hear you, it
[00:21:38] will be from the 13th to the 15th in Agen at the philosophy meetings
[00:21:41] of Michel Sermage, the great philosopher of whom you are
[00:21:45] vice-president, thank you very much again, a
[00:21:48] broadcast, an interview. in replay, listen again on podcast, thank
[00:21:52] you very much to the technical teams who really did everything to make this
[00:21:55] broadcast happen and to the editorial teams of course, see you in a few
[00:21:58] minutes for the rest of this news broadcast,
[00:22:20] Your program with Parmigiano Reggiano.
[00:30:10] Let's Talk, here are the headlines for this Thursday, an A320 airliner that was making the connection between
[00:30:13] Dublin and Rome was diverted this
[00:30:17] Thursday to the Evreux air base due to a bomb
[00:30:20] threat, information that comes from Matignon, stating if you
[00:30:24] the real-time situation, the very latest information with Sylvain Rousseau in a
[00:30:27] moment. Public and private sector employees called
[00:30:31] to cease work today for... the salary is against the high cost of living, high school students and university students will
[00:30:34] join some of the 250 demonstrations planned across the country. National
[00:30:38] strike day and mobilization at the call of the unions that are disrupting
[00:30:42] the antennas of France 24. Pauline Godard will explain the
[00:30:46] issues in a moment and then the American consulate in Hong Kong
[00:30:49] strongly condemns the prison sentence inflicted on Joshua Wong, the
[00:30:53] 30-year-old pro-democracy activist, face of resistance against Beijing
[00:30:57] will remain incarcerated for 10 more years.